~ archived since 2018 ~

Finally saw the casual hatred of men.

February 12, 2023

Let me start off by saying that I'm a woman, so apologies if that's against the rules of this subreddit. I'm very much a liberal feminist but that means that I'm for equality for everyone. Yesterday I commented on a post where they announced the comeback of Rihanna performing at the superbowl, where everyone wanted more of Rihanna and were putting down the sportsmen saying that "No one wants to see that shit, let our queen get more performance time" or "This is just grown boys playing with ball, why does anyone even watch it?".

I felt that kind of talk wasn't acceptable as you can very much support Rihanna without hating on the men who have put blood, sweat and tears to get where they are, in most cases they have worked harder than Rihanna ever could, as they have also physically injured themselves.

Now this is where I saw just how much random men are hated in the society. The comments responding to me were horrible, saying things like "Y'all weird for taking it so seriously, it's just a joke" with one person going as far as calling me a clown and a creepy troll (they didn't know I was a woman because my profile doesn't show any of my personal information), and I was respectful in that post, I just didn't want people to put someone up by putting someone else down. I even tried putting it into perspective by reversing the genders and saying "What if someone were to say let Eminem perform more at the WNBA, these grown girls are just playing with a ball anyway" and everyone ignored that statement and got straight to commenting.

The amount of backlash I got just for saying that don't hate on men who are just doing their jobs, it made me so very sad, I don't even know what to say.

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Post Information
Title Finally saw the casual hatred of men.
Author CookieDontCookie
Upvotes 80
Comments 31
Date February 12, 2023 1:33 AM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit /r/MenSupportMen
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[–]HiddenAnon720 34 points35 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is a very casual hatred. So casual that when I was at rock bottom and joined a partial-hospitalization program (for those who are battling depression, etc. but aren’t quite considered on the edge of deleting themself) I was sitting between meetings with two women who were discussing how sucky men were. Which was whatever, I’ve heard it, but it was pretty eye-opening when one felt comfortable enough to say “all men are trash” right in front of me, as if we’re not all supposed to be there for a ‘safe-space.’ Since then it’s become extremely challenging to not get super resentful and bitter every time I hear ppl just shitting on men.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can see why. I too have a very visceral reaction when people say misogynistic things, casual hatred on either side is literally helping no one and is only widening the gap between people. Sorry you had to go through that and I hope you're in a better place now.

[–]HiddenAnon720 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am in a better place so that’s good! And yes, that is my primary issue. It’s not helping anything to brush broad-stroke hate. I don’t see why some ppl think empowering women means they have to trash on men, but the pendulum swings I suppose.

[–]ForeignSmell 16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Wait till your gender start calling you a pick me for a reaction like that.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I like to stay anonymous online, so they can't attack me on any of my personal attributes, they can only ever guess and fights ghosts.

[–]marczandery 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought pick me’s are only women who bashes other women so they can gain attention from other men? She didn’t do that or what am I missing

[–]ForeignSmell 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends mostly the general consensus seems to be that it is women who say things to get them pick by dudes.

[–]psychosythe 19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would seriously caution against letting interactions like this inform your idea of how people think of men too much. The Venn diagram overlap between Rihanna fans, redditors, and people who've touched grass in the last decade is incredibly small.

I would, however, highly recommend you head over to r/leftwingmaleadvocates and check out their required reading if you'd like to educate yourself on the issues men face. Fair warning we're a bunch of Debbie Downers a lot of the time but I find that to be a symptom of being an activist subreddit in general.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Love the Venn diagram comment, made me chuckle. I very briefly checked out the subreddit you linked, and I can't believe a space like this exists, I was able to relate to the top posts and agreed so much with them. I'll definitely do a deep dive, so thank you!

Also i can relate to the whole Debbie Downer thing but I always tell my friends, it's not depressing, it's just reality, because people like to shut conversations down because it's too "negative". Negative or not, it's a reality that all of us live in, it's just that many people choose to put a blindfold on.

[–]scumtardmonkey 15 points16 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Glad you’re seeing the light of things, but may I ask why you felt it was necessary to say that you’re a liberal feminist? I don’t see the relevance in bringing politics into support for men.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Your question is very valid, I say this because in today's climate people assume that all feminists and liberals hate men, and I just wanted to clarify my position (I understand not everyone cares but sadly a lot of people do). Maybe it's become a defense mechanism to get everything out of the way before people start assuming and attacking you.

[–]psychosythe 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think that stating your political/philosophical viewpoint is necessarily 'bringing politics into it' or trying head off an attack per se, you used a convenient tag to give us a basic idea of your general outlook and provide some context to your emotional reaction. Reddit's just made us all too cynical

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It sadly has. I would also blame social media in general because Instagram is no better. The amount of toxicity in those comment sections should be a whole case study, but thank you for being so understanding and considerate.

[–]Foxsayy 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Your question is very valid, I say this because in today's climate people assume that all feminists and liberals hate men, and I just wanted to clarify my position (I understand not everyone cares but sadly a lot of people do).

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying it, and I suppose it's a helpful disclaimer, but I sort of see my being a feminist as "by definition, yes, in practice, no." I'm an egalitarian, and as such, I fit the on paper definition of a feminist. However, it seems like one of those things where the current iteration of third wave feminism has become something else in practice that I can't agree with.

It's like how Lo-Fi music is really popular today, and it used to mean "Low-Fidelity" music. However, much of this music is now produced in really high quality, and a lot of it doesn't even have that record scratch effect to it. The genre has taken on a different cultural meaning to the point that virtually anyone I tell that I like Lo-Fi music would not assume that I am specifically referring to old style low fidelity stuff. I didn't even know that's what was supposed to be when I first started listening to it.

And that's why I can't identify as a feminist explicitly, only in egalitarian and men's rights advocate. I am currently questioning whether it's privilege enough that feminists who do fall under egalitarianism would better serve their cause by breaking their identification with it. I'm not necessarily one to always argue over semantics, but I do you see the exaggerated power words and phrases carry in the public sphere, and I think possibly by identifying as a feminist even when we disagree with the extremely prevalent denigration of men may be a disservice to true egalitarianism. So this paragraph is something in still mulling over.

[–]raw_bro 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How would feminism be about equality with a name derived from feminine?

[–]Foxsayy 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I would hope men's rights is truly about egalitarianism from male-focused activist perspective. Ideally, feminism would be the same for women and we would work together or negotiate most of the time.

[–]a-man-from-earth 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ideally, yes. In practice, no.

[–]Foxsayy 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That was more or less what I was trying to communicate with the first comment.

So I do think it's possible, and I do hope that the men's Rights Movement gets a quality better than the current iteration of feminism does.

[–]a-man-from-earth 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The men's rights movement can be a bit of a mixed bag, but mostly it is egalitarian, and just advocates for equal rights. What we need is a women's rights movement that does the same and dumps the misandrist baggage from feminism.

[–]kiadragon 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for trying. Really. It takes courage.

I feel for your hurt and I will not belittle yours. It's honest and it is always surprising the first time it's makes itself clear to a person.

Now imagine how much more intense that hate would be if you were a male defending anything male. As a stubborn older male who doesn't have anything to lose, I can tell you that it is a little shocking how many people tell you to self delete because you pointed out something they didn't want to hear. How many will wish you death, pain, disease, torture, and destruction. How many tell you they hope your child grows to hate you and cut off all contact.

Most men have too much to lose if they speak up. But the frustration still builds and the chafing against this will only grow worse. The trouble is that the frustration is not lost when the older generation dies. It builds in a cumulative fashion from generation to generation until slaves fight for freedom.

There comes a point where the worst of us males decide that they have had enough and start using their genetic advantages against women because they are tired of the bull. They cannot please impossible expectations and the less emotionally stable part of our cohort loses their sh!t in frustration.

That is not the answer, but it is what is coming. The smarter of us see it coming and wish it were different.

[–]ZulutheZebra 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I hate to break it to you, but you are not what would be classified as a “liberal feminist” anymore. Your example with Eminem and the WNBA? Tons of circles would label you a toxic incel if you didn’t specify your gender; if you did it would change to a “pick me” at best. It’s the damn Wild West nowadays; what would have been considered leftist 20 years ago is now literally labeled “radical right”. Would suggest watching Bill Maher sometime; he’s an old school leftist that is considered radical right now because he didn’t hop on the crazy train years ago.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Dang thanks for the suggestion, I'll check him out. I'm not from the USA so I guess I haven't been rasicalised. But you're right, some of my views and opinions have been categorized as "right wing" and no one wants to listen to reason anymore, they just want to immediately attack as if they're in some immediate danger by some words.

[–]ZulutheZebra 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well, let me just say that I’m always encouraged to see some ladies such as yourself still out here. I’m close friends with my cousin’s wife and she also breaks the mold on that; wants equal rights for women and men and will listen to men’s problems. Sometimes it feels like most women hate men entirely, and there’s this vicious double standard where men can be derided mercilessly with no consequence but if a man disparages a single thing about a woman he is publicly flayed alive. I get that women have to deal with a lot of shit, I do. I just wish everyone could be in the same boat; everyone gets paid the same wage, every date is paid by both parties, etc

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your perspective. I know what it must feel like, because my best friend is a guy and I've seen how he has to go through casual misandry in his daily life, and as you said, he can't say anything about it or he'll be labeled horrible, untrue things. While there are obviously spaces where women are still being bashed openly (Andrew Tate fans being just one minor example), at least society as a whole frowns upon it, but as you said, man hate is socially acceptable. I can't imagine what it must feel like to hear 'Men are trash', 'I despise all men' on a daily basis and other people applauding that. I understand that there's a lot of generational trauma in women when it comes to abuse from men (I have sadly been in that position multiple times) it still does not mean every man is a demon, so why do we treat men like that?

Sorry for the long rant, I just feel like it's difficult to have a rational discussion anymore so when I DO come across someone empathetic and rational, I just blurt out everything I've been thinking lol.

[–]ZulutheZebra 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not at all, I very much enjoy having pleasant conversations with rational people; it’s so rare to find these days. You raise some very good points on generational trauma; it legit makes me sad that a lot of women (including yourself) have experienced that from scumbag men out there. Not to get into the weeds but I also experienced significant emotional abuse from my mother so I hear you; the trauma just makes everything that much harder. Honestly that’s why I enjoy talks like this so much; it reminds me that there are in fact some very decent women out there. When you constantly get sucker punched out in the world by men bashing and all the online hate that is constantly propagated, it’s easy to get bitter about it all. All that to say, thanks for being a decent human being and being willing to listen and converse rationally about all this. It’s a breath of fresh air to find a fellow sane person amongst all the increasing insanity that is the modern world.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you as well for engaging with me in such an intellectual conversation :) Have a great day!

[–]Lovebomber777 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its casual even in modern day movies.... Its everywhere.

[–]FrostieTheSnowman 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm happy you're eyes are clear, but I'm sorry you have to see it.

It's really disheartening how much people dismiss others based purely on identity politics, rather than having a conversation. People wonder why the "alt-right pipeline" is so effective–this is why. If men try to do the right thing, and don't necessarily agree with everything certain folks say, they get shit on, called misogynists or incels, and their opinion is no longer valid. It's the same with anything involving LGBT issues; even if you support 90% of it, that 10% you don't support gets you labeled and discarded.

What's sad is there are so many men out there who would probably come around to that stuff if they were treated with a measure of humanity. But haters gonna hate, whatever their affiliation.

[–]CookieDontCookie[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would rather live sad but live in reality than have my eyes closed to it, or else I won't be able to empathize with anyone. As you said, the whole political binary has pushed people to be classified into two completely black and white sectors when obviously billions of people will lie on a grey spectrum. If you tell someone on the right that you are on the left, they'll automatically judge you and get negatively biased against you and of course the same applies the other way round as well. We need to stop putting in arbitrary boxes, you can never find someone who will 100% agree with you but that doesn't make them any less human (unless they're literally against giving humans rights to people).

[–]FrostieTheSnowman 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. We've got to gain common ground and focus on the shit that matters, not purity-test people and push them away. That's no way to make friends or allies.

[–]richsreddit 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly in today's society there are many women who align themselves with the values and beliefs you identify yourself with as they continue to promote this kind of toxic hateful rhetoric that you just described.

The worst part is that there is really no accountability on the feminists part as any criticism against their words are either silenced or forced unto uncaring ears. Now of course I know not all feminists hold these toxic values but I mainly blame toxic third wave feminism as bringing about this kind of hate that ultimately made some impact in creating the toxic side of the manosphere in certain groups such as the incels, PUAs, and Red Pillers.

it's truly sad to just see certain groups just continue to up the hostility and hate rather than actually promote a helpful discussion on how we can all come together to be better to one another as people on this earth. Until there is a way to manage the misinformation and propaganda we see being spread around regularly we will likely see this spiral into something really bad before we either destroy ourselves or 'find' a way to do better than this.

Personally it is refreshing to see that someone who identifies as a feminist sees this as wrongful behavior but unfortunately many of those who identify as such are either unable to criticize out of fear of being silenced by their fellow feminists or just outright enable it because of their misguided views on how their actions will somehow contribute towards making the world a better place to live in.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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