1,500 Men Lock Arms Protecting Their Place of Worship Against 7,000 Feminists Spitting, Spray Painting, and Sexually Assaulting Them. [x-post /r/videos]

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And they also expect white knights to step up and protect them.

Interesting anecdote. A road rage incident with a friend of mine saw him stopped in a convenience store parking lot with two aggresive lesbian women (not only did they let everyone in the parking lot watching know this verbally but they went on and on about how men are the problem with the world so I also assume they were hard core feminists). My friend sat there calmly and attempted to deescalate the situation. They took his kindness for a weakness and started attacking him, hitting him over the head and kicking him. Well, my friend started fighting back and ended up beating the shit out of both of them. They were both laying on the ground crying and screaming at the men in the crowd for not coming to their aid. It was very ironic that the women screaming that men were the problem with the world were now screaming that men did not protect them. Luckily my friend did not get arrested. They, of course, tried to say he started it but witnesses and cameras proved them wrong. Looking back it was one of my first run ins with the cognitive dissonance of the feminist movement.

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It started off simply as a parody sub poking fun at the sillyness of a lot of complaints on /r/bodyacceptance (ironically though, it actually often has legit posts that are just as, if not more reasonable than the stuff on ba), and it kinda evolved into a silly fun place to make jokes and talk about fitness related stuff in a light hearted and humorous manner. It really does have one of the most accepting and friendly communities out there though. For example a member came out as trans there recently, said they were going to transition m2f and as part of the process they were attempting to lose as much muscle as they could to to rebuild their physique in a more feminine manner. I don't think a single bad thing was said in the entire thread (apart from 1 or 2 obvious trolls), just heaps of encouragement, helpful advice including links to useful resources, a subreddit or two and a great blog from someone who went from full on alpha bear mode in the marines to girly looking woman (basically what OP was looking to do). And of course the typical brodinspeak stuff like "Lo, today we lose a brother, but never fear, for in his place Brodin delivers us a sister!".

It also has one of the highest visibly female subscriber bases of any non-gendered sub I've seen, probably because the women there are completely genuine and partake in the community (probably also because identifying as a brother/sister does make ones gender more visible as well). There is non of that "Oh, look at my squat booty, I'm so swole, tee hee! Validate me plz". Just straight up makin jokes and silly "And then they told me I should do cardio!" stories like everyone else.

TL;DR - 'tis a chill place with great people, truly the embodiment of the all spotters wisdom and strength. May all Broki's minions be crushed between his chiseled glutes.

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I have been to /r/Christianity It is a hivemind of circle jerk. The same as /r/atheism

However if you want a good debate head on over to /r/DebateAnAtheist We pride ourselves on fair and honest responses but won't hesitate to point to the sidebar when a person tries to preach and refuses to use logic.

Yes, new atheists tend to be angry, they have been told a lie their entire lives and they are hurt, upset and wanting to lash out. Let them do so, don't invade in their area and allow them to grow in there, as they see other new atheists come in and see how they act they will naturally see themselves in this new person and see that they have changed and hopefully continue to grow as a person.

As for open atheists being a microscopic minority, perhaps it is simply because by and large the atheists willing to debate and discuss rationally don't scream at the top of their lungs that they are atheists. They simply have a discussion with you and move on.

I feel you may be a victim of confirmation bias.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, new atheists tend to be angry, they have been told a lie their entire lives and they are hurt, upset and wanting to lash out. Let them do so, don't invade in their area and allow them to grow in there, as they see other new atheists come in and see how they act they will naturally see themselves in this new person and see that they have changed and hopefully continue to grow as a person.

IMO this type of logic is what stems to really argumentative discussions. Allowing somebody to lash and and push aside what they are now claiming to have gained (the ability to use their mind and make decisions based on logic) is a major excuse that both new found Theists and Atheists resort to after their discovery. That type of decision making is something the MRM stands agains. The excuse to "Lash out" Because of what you feel is an injustice is totally BS and should be looked down upon in EVERY community not just religious/non-religious ones.

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The same reason they would downvote someone for someone saying they're a feminist.

Personally imho, despite my misgivings about feminism, If I'm being honest, religion is definitely the more toxic of the two, so I can understand the sentiment - and my response to more moderate believers is not too different from my response to more moderate/reasonable feminists.

Also, as a left-leaning liberal, I hate the feminist characterisation of this sub as a pro-traditionalist conservative space (i.e same old enemy in different clothing). Pro-christian posts rising to the top will only play into their ability to see what they want to see.

I'm not saying everyone here should be a left-leaning liberal, I'd just like to preserve the implicit agreement of leaving non-misandry related politics for discussion elsewhere, so as the overall agenda of this sub can be fighting misandry and nothing else.

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Christians are not persecuted in Brazil, the U.S., or anywhere in the First World. They are persecuted in countries where Christianity is a minority religion, like many places in the Middle East, but you make it sound like Christians are these perpetual victims that are persecuted everywhere, which is so obnoxiously opposite to reality that I have serious concerns you live in a social bubble. Christianity continues to be used as a tool to oppress women and homosexuals around the world. Not all Christians are directly responsible for this, but plenty are, and those who aren't provide tacit support by remaining silent and making No True Scotsman arguments. And history? The history of Christianity is far more comprised of times when it dominated social and political processes in Europe, persecuting Jews, Muslims, and Pagans, to say nothing of women, Blacks, gays, etc. The Catholic Church is soaked in innocent blood, and Protestant denominations aren't very clean either. Christian apologists love to cherry-pick evidence and tout warped narratives of history and science, which is why I'm grateful the majority of Christians aren't so incredibly ignorant, biased, and bigoted.

But you sure seem to be.

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Statism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy of governance. Big difference: philosophies derive their mandate from rational arguments based on given assumptions, whereas religions derive theirs from faith-based beliefs held only by their members. Both can pull the strings of any particular government, which is why I concede to your rewording, but I think there are plenty of cases in which you could say that a particular religion was used as more acceptable veil for a movement whose motivations were actually different. The GOP getting in bed with the Religious Right is a perfect example of both our points, actually—initially, conservatives were using Christianity to get votes, but as time has gone on, it's become clearly apparent that some Christians have been using the GOP to enshrine Christian views into secular law.

To me, Religion is a greater threat than nationalism or any other philosophical credo, and I point to history as proof of that. There have been plenty of barbaric things done in the name of nationalism, patriotism, Communism, and even America's favorite buzzword, "freedom," but none of these instances comes even close to having the record of violence and persecutory practices that religions like Christianity and Islam do. And that's because failed sociopolitical philosophies have no purpose outside of their exercise in politics, so when a movement involving one fails, populations of people don't tend to retain said philosophy—they move on. With Religion, however, you have people who cling to it for a variety of reasons, and thus it can remain a stable and active part of people's lives, even after one of its abusive power structures crumbles. And because the ideas stick around in their now relatively innocuous form, they remain viable sources for future religious extremists. Religion truly is a brilliant social construct this way, and (IMO) a blight on society.

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Did you continue reading after that part you quoted? Because I explained that I was talking about the long-term record right after that. Hitler and Stalin certainly killed a lot of people in a short period of time, which is in itself horrific, but their regimes collapsed, and their ideologies went with them. Meanwhile, Christianity is still around and harming people long after the Roman expansion, the Crusades, the Dark Ages, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, etc. Christians continue to miseducate people in Africa about the use of condoms, thereby contributing to the spread of AIDS; they fight against the rights of women and gays at every opportunity, and would probably still be fighting for segregation if it hadn't gone out of fashion. Christians in this country have explicitly said they intend to infiltrate the government in order to get their religious views enforced on the rest of the country (effectively trying to create a theocracy). And yet Christianity still has a good rep, because...y'know, they do charity'n'shit, right?

Violent extremism of any stripe is always a bad thing, but failed philosophical ideologies seem to die off when they're taken too far, whereas religious ones just go dormant for a while, then come back and try the same shit with a different flag. This is why I hope religion is eventually completely abandoned, because it's harmful effects far outweigh its positive ones in the longview.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Did you continue reading after that part you quoted? Because I explained that I was talking about the long-term record right after that. Hitler and Stalin certainly killed a lot of people in a short period of time, which is in itself horrific, but their regimes collapsed, and their ideologies went with them.

Communism and Nazism are still around.

the Dark Ages,

The Dark Ages never happened.

they fight against the rights of women and gays at every opportunity,

No, they don't. Some fight against abortion, but that's hardly "fighting the rights of women."

and would probably still be fighting for segregation if it hadn't gone out of fashion

It was because of Christianity that it went out of fashion.

Christians in this country have explicitly said they intend to infiltrate the government

We're 70% of the country. We don't need to "infiltrate" anything. You have rights because we let you have rights. If we wanted to take them, we would.

Violent extremism of any stripe is always a bad thing, but failed philosophical ideologies seem to die off when they're taken too far,

Wrong. Bad ideas do not just go away. There are still Marxists. There are still fascists. Have a look at /r/communism if you really think people just give up on bad decisions.

This is why I hope religion is eventually completely abandoned,

So you're a complete idiot.

because it's harmful effects

The ones that don't exist?

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Funny, I got 110,000,000 results.

The top ten.

Headlines from the article itself.

.1.

Company Forced into 'Diversity Training' over Gay Pride Shirts

Reading the article.

The company was approached to print a set of T-Shirts. They are a public company open to the public. They refused to print a shirt because it was about gay people. As such they were fined under the cities fairness ordinance for discrimination against sexual orientation.

If the company wishes to do business with the public in that area then they must follow the law. They do not get a break from the law because they are religious.

.2.

Same thing as above.

.3.

Same thing as above.

.4.

Same thing as above.

.5.

Same thing as above.

.6.

Christian Couple Forced to Close Bakery Due to Gay Activism May Face Over $150K in Damages

They weren't forced to close their bakery. They closed their bakery because once it was found out that they were discriminatory assholes they lost their business and couldn't pay to keep the lights on. They caused this by discriminating against homosexuals. They state one of the main issues was loss of business from referrals, this means that once their customers found out they were bigots they stopped referring them to friends and family.

This is simply an example of christian persecution "I killed a gay man and now the state is forcing me to go to jail, HOW DARE THEY!".

.7.

Same thing as T-Shirt Company above.

.8.

T-shirt company again.

.9.

T-Shirt company again.

.10.

Muslim Company Forcing Christian Employees to Wear Headscarfs

Truth in headlines this time. A muslim owned hobby store truly is forcing all females employees to wear headscarves or be terminated. If you are upset about this please note he is able to do this thanks to the supreme court decision with Hobby Lobby. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.

Still bullshit, still shouldn't be doing it. But its legal for now thanks to Christians fighting for the legal right to force their belief structure onto others.

Here is a screenshot of the results page from google for me. As you can see, I made nothing up.

So. The top ten stories are actually 3 stories. A T-Shirt company being fined and required to take sensitivity training due to discrimination and breaking local ordinances. A baking company pretty much destroying itself due to discrimination and a hobby store using the Hobby Lobby ruling to force employees to wear traditional muslim clothing or be fired.

Clicking through to page 5 is simply rehashing of the same issues.

So while there might be 113 million results there isn't a lot of content.

In none of these cases do we have any Christian company being forced to do anything against their beliefs, they are being fined if they don't, but they still aren't being forced to do anything. The T-Shirt company isn't being forced to print gay T-Shirts, the cake company isn't being forced to make gay cakes. But they are suffering the consequences of breaking the law and being bigots.

The only story here where a person is being forced to do something against their will is the non-muslim employees of the hobby store being forced to wear muslim clothing.

So again, you made the claim, back it up. You still haven't shown a single case of Google being hostile towards Christians as you claimed, (I am being facetious here I know), but the truth is you still haven't produced a single verifiable article where in a Christians are facing hostility solely for being Christian.

The persecution complex the the religious has always fascinated me.

[–]Gstreetshit 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

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Hostility =/= persecution.

Eh, Sorry bro, but it is.

per·se·cu·tion

ˌpərsəˈkyo͞oSH(ə)n/ noun noun: persecution; plural noun: persecutions

hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.

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You are correct.

The reason for the hostility is because we are an ever more educated culture. The more education one gets, the more they question things. Which is how it should be.

Then what happens is you get the politicians and old boys and girls that vote, and have very fundamental christian views. Those politicians pander to those views, because those are the people at the voting booths.

Because of this, there has been an increase of the public demonstrating that they are less and less tolerant of the, "My way, or highway" ideology that religious belief breeds. Which then leads to public questioning in the news, and out in the open. Tack on the extreme amount of instant information that is out there, and you can see why the hostility has increased.

BTW, extremism has increased in both the Christian, and the Muslim world.

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I gave every single group their just deserts and never portrayed any group as a perpetual victim, no one got a pass. You say Christianity spent most of it's life holding the reigns of power? Fair enough, and I'm sure the Christian theocracies did quite a bit of damage when the state was under their control. However if we're honest, nothing compares to the atrocities committed under the atheist forms of government rule, known as democracy, communism and socialism. The last 100 years has been one solid never ending war, which is when the state theocracies were overthrown or replaced by atheistic forms of government. The death toll is at least 100 to 1 in one hundred years compared to 1,000 years of Christian rule.

No doubt in the time in took to type this quite a few people got whacked out by our democracy drones. Spreading equality, tolerance and freedom around the globe for a hundred years all under the banner of democracy. And death to all heretics who refuse to submit their people to the almighty democracy. That's what your schools teach, isn't it? Any country that isn't a democracy is backwards, and they will be enlightened whether they like it or not. Sounds suspiciously like, by the word or by the sword.

[–]Tedesche 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Democracy, Communism, Nationalism, Statism, etc =/= atheism.

You're trying to attribute the atrocities committed by governments in the name of state control and political influence to atheism, the implication being that it's not the religious element in theocracies at fault for their atrocities either. But none of those non-theocratic governments did what they did in the name of atheism or secularity, they did it in the name of the political ideologies they were championing at the time. The fact that theocracies were torn down as a result is simply a product of the fact that they were controlling those areas (and persecuting people) in the first place. There are plenty of examples of secular governments that do not persecute people systematically, but theocracies almost invariably do. Also, you're pointing to things like U.S. drone strikes as examples of religious persecution, but they're not. There are plenty of reasons to criticize the U.S.'s foreign policy and military actions, but the rationales for them have nothing to do with the religions of the groups and nations they target. Frankly, it is a favorite tactic of religious apologists to claim that any action taken against their (and only their) religion is evidence of persecution—even when the alleged persecutors are really just fighting back against real persecution levied by said religion. We're seeing this among Christians in the U.S. a lot these days—they construe the legalization of gay marriage as an attack on their religion, simply because they disagree with it.

Stop confusing incidental violence against religious people as systematic persecution of said people. This is what I meant about crocodile tears—you're crying foul over illusory hate crimes that only exist in your own warped perception of history. Your hyperbole about the past 100 years being constant war and the death toll being catastrophically higher than the past 1,000 years of Christian rule is a perfect example of this. Seriously, read a damn history book. I can recommend one, just for this country: The People's History of the United States, by Howard Zinn. You won't find a better summation of persecution in U.S. history. Educate yourself, because when you go online and start spewing this bullshit, you add to the perception that all Christians are this ignorant.

[–]NWOslave -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Facts are facts. Up until around 1900 most governments around the globe were theocracies. Now, only Iran's government is a theocracy since all the other state theocracies in north Africa and the middle east have been thoroughly stomped by what? The atheist ideology of democracy. What country does the US sanction? What country does our democratic media say is our enemy? Iran of course, even though they've done nothing wrong. We don't sanction china for being communist because it's an atheist form of governance.

Communism and democracy are identical forms of atheist government, they both have a centrally controlled economy, education and judicial system. The president is the pope, the house are the cardinals, the senate are the bishops, the schools are the ministries that you must attend or get thrown in a cage, and the media is the every watchful inquisitors. Good luck with that.

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Your ignorance is remarkable.

The Ottoman Empire was in a philosophical/scientific/ethical golden age then the crusades happen and sent them to the dark ages

Complete rubbish. The Ottomans were brutal tyrants and close-minded bigots. They fucked themselves by refusing to allow the printing press to be adopted in their lands, because it was invented by non-Muslims. The Crusades took place well before the decline of the Ottomans.

And yes Isis is a terrible terrorist organization but they hate Jews a whole lot more than Christians.

No they don't. They have not lifted one finger against Jews either in the Middle East nor outside it. In contrast, they have forced Christians out of a city they have been living in for 400 years longer than Islam has even existed.

Groups like ISIS have existed since the earliest days of Islam, and Arab Christians have always stood against them.

In contrast, Israel provides medical care to jihadists.

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Religion can provide whatever justification for a person that they want, it doesn't make someone morally superior in any way. Someone who wouldn't kill or steal would feel the way whether they are religious or not because they are a good person; if someone only does good deeds because a holy book tells them to then they are a shitty person. Religion also spawns movements like in this video all the time, often much more violent, involving mass murder because they have a heavenly ordained book to justify their actions. Without religion a murderer can only quote human reasons so he can be held accountable, religion is used as a way to elevate someone's actions into some kind of holy action which you cannot question. There are countless examples of this in every religion in every part of the world.

[–]hork23 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"Religion can provide whatever justification for a person that they want, it doesn't make someone morally superior in any way." Agreed, as an atheist I find it rather annoying that we are declared immoral.

"if someone only does good deeds because a holy book tells them to then they are a shitty person. " I concur, though is it not better for them to be this way rather than potentially harming others? This is kinda what I was talking about, feminists lack that dogma telling them to be good to each other (obviously not the only thing that's in the bible but even that is cherry picked).

"Religion also spawns movements like in this video all the time" I would say Christianity does not do this to the degree that feminism and Islam does. The most heinous protests from Christian groups that I've seen is from Westboro and that is demonized by other Christians unlike feminism.

"they have a heavenly ordained book to justify their actions" Yeah but how many have actually gone all the way? A small percentage of the total amount of believers in any group. The problem is the people that do not condemn and actively attempt to change their ideology to prevent violence and hate. Feminism and Islam does not do this to a satisfactory level. Christians might not as well but they are no where near the level of hostility the other groups are.

"Without religion a murderer can only quote human reasons so he can be held accountable" People would use any reason to justify bad behavior if so inclined. I forgot where I heard this but most people use moral reasons to excuse atrocities. I suppose any beliefs can be the same, 'Religion is causing harm to group A, it must be stopped.' and maybe it depends on the strength of their conviction.

[–]LackingTact19 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm on mobile so I can't use the formatting that you were nice enough to. I largely agree with you but some of your points contradict each other while others are cherry picking. Christianity is not represented only by the Christians in America where the worst are portrayed by WBC, Christians in Africa hunt and kill Muslims in the name of God just like Muslims do in the name of Islam in other parts of the world. But it's dangerous to define any group by its radical elements, my argument is that any extreme ideology will lend itself to creating these elements (be it religion or feminism). There are billions of religious people in the world though compared to not near that many feminists, this lends to the higher chance of people using ideas that aren't based in reality to shape their views of reality. The detachment makes it easier to commit heinous crimes. To say that one group combats it enough while another does not is also purely opinion because it's impossible to encompass every participant of a group together.

[–]hork23 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Christians in Africa hunt and kill Muslims in the name of God" I am largely ignorant of this, as I haven't seen any news concerning it but I was focusing on those in the U.S., as that I what I'm most familiar with, although I should have clarified.

"RADICAL adjective 1. of or going to the root or origin; fundamental:" Some of the fundamentals of Christianity is either you are for or against god (good or evil, as described in the bible). I would argue that many christians have abandoned this dichotomy while feminists advocate this. Also, I agree that beliefs that do not adhere to reality can and will cause harm.

"To say that one group combats it enough while another does not is also purely opinion because it's impossible to encompass every participant of a group together." I was thinking more that christian and feminist ideology in a way is contradictory, you can't have both.

In the past, men and women were kept in their traditional roles which religion certainly reinforced. For women's safety and comfort, men did the dangerous jobs while women stayed home (for the most part).

Perhaps I am mis-attributing the changes in society and technology, which allowed women to create feminism and the like, with the dissolution of traditional roles by the slow rejection of religion. Women could have rejected those roles whenever they wanted but wouldn't when it didn't serve them to do so.

[–]Tedesche 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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With societal problems like this, blame is often hard to place on any single person, set of people, or even a group. Obviously, people who push for changes to the law in support of their religious views are playing a more direct role in persecuting those who don't subscribe to them, but even they typically require the support of others to achieve their goals.

Personally, I think one of the keys to societal change is simply ideological shifts across generations. Children grow up in a different world from their parents, and thus mature into differently-minded adults. To be sure, views do tend to be inherited from parents, but the rate is too far from perfect to prevent cultural change over time. I honestly believe that, sometimes what is needed to affect social change is simply for the older members of society that are still influencing things to die off. That's not to say I would support barring people over a certain age from participating in government or voting or anything like that (which would be agism), but I do think that as the reigns of power pass from one generation to the next, ideologies shift and laws change to reflect that.

All of which means the primary target of any civil rights movement should be children, which is one reason why I think people tend to get hyper-sensitive about what their kids are exposed to. Christians opposed to their children associating with gay people out of a fear that it might somehow turn their child gay are obviously just being homophobic, but I think many are afraid for a much more sensical reason: they fear their kids will become a part of their political opposition. Yes, most Christians would probably say they merely fear their children going to Hell as a result, but IMO, ideas about who goes to Heaven vs. Hell typically just reflect the speakers own judgments, and that the Christians who say they just fear for their children's souls (but would never dream of restricting their freedom to explore alternative political points of view from theirs!) are just plain being insincere.

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What do you say about this list of quotes ordering people to kill?

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

--Here's some of my favorites:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

See what I mean? The bible is fucking bad ass, and christians used to be. I mean the shit I just quoted sounds like something off a Slayer song.

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