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TerriChris
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 1835 points1836 points1837 points 6 years ago* (175 children) | Copy Link
I hate her. What kind of person does that to a poor baby?!
[–]such-a-mensch 1222 points1223 points1224 points 6 years ago (120 children) | Copy Link
A friend of mine was pushed down the stairs by his abusive ex while holding their daughter. She then called the police and claimed that he pushed her. It wasn't until he was at the police station with his lawyer that the police would even listen to his claims. Thankfully he recorded the fight including the fall down the stairs and was released by the cops.
She's still got joint custody and he still pays her over $1000/mth which based on the Facebook photos he shows me is spent on drinking and traveling.
[–]Kyle_Fischer 112 points113 points114 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've had more than one male client share with me their "she tried to push me down the stairs while I was holding our baby daughter/son" story. Both wives were suspected to have Borderline Personality Disorders.
[–]such-a-mensch 38 points39 points40 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This woman seems to suffer from a mental illness as well but I don't think she's sought help, just blamed everyone around her.
She's a 'single mom' though so she can do no wrong in her world. Nevermind she lied about being on bc.
[–]Circle_0f_Life 559 points560 points561 points 6 years ago (96 children) | Copy Link
This makes me furious, guess feminism wasn't fighting for "equal" they were fighting for "untouchable"
[–]TacoOrgy 291 points292 points293 points 6 years ago (76 children) | Copy Link
You're just now getting this. No one is interested in true equality; they just want their turn on top
[–]Circle_0f_Life 124 points125 points126 points 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
...I am .-.
[–]cp710 45 points46 points47 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I am too, even though I appear to have a completely different ideology to you.
[–]Circle_0f_Life 48 points49 points50 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And that's what I wish everyone was like, despite different opinions.. coming together with the understanding that everyone should be treated equally
[–]dork_of_the_isles 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
life doesn't work this way. selfishness is like the ideological version of "mutually assured destruction"
if one group behaves selfishly, and all other groups behave selflessly, the group that behaves selfishly will trample over the others. the others are forced to be selfish too, in order to oppose
might makes right, and selfishness makes might
[–]Circle_0f_Life 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Of course it doesn't, that doesn't mean we should except it as a unchangeable truth and not hope for a better future. At least striving to be better can get us somewhere, accepting things the way they are will only make sure we can't change anything.
[–]The_Best_01 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Human nature doesn't have to be this way. Society only makes it like that.
[–]Bacon_is_a_condiment 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Good luck. I was that way. Gave everything I could to those I cared about. They ate me alive and spit out what's left.
Now I spend my time training in fighting sports when I'm not working just because I like the conflict. I don't have space left to really care.
The added muscle growth and losing the last of my weight means I have more than enough companionship now.
But I lost the will and means to really care.
[–]ntx7 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
MeToo
[–]tacoman3725 25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
That's not true a lot of people hope for a world of equal treatment and opportunity. It's just not easy because a lot of people don't want that.
[–]rach2bach 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As long as it's equal opportunity and treatment, but not equal OUTCOME. Two very different things.
[–]Azurenightsky -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's very easy, the issue at hand is that we believe democracy to be a human right, that there is no burden attached to it. Wrong! Democracy must be earned, it only works when the citizenry respect the vote and do not agree collectively to do evil.
We're in a time of enslavement, try not paying your taxes, try not surrendering your well earned goods, try to fight back, they have a nice cage for the rowdy ones who don't follow the "rules" that you're forced to obey.
A man chooses, a slave obeys. This is not democracy, it is tyranny of the weak against the strong.
[–]ReadeDraconis 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
... Maybe you have a point buried in there somewhere, my guy, but you're coming across a weeee bit crazy here, with a damn near unrelated tangent about democracy when the subject at hand was the goals of feminism. I'm sure enough discussion could link the two together, however, you nor anyone else has provided that. So this feels completely out of left field.
[–]LateralThinker13 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
He's right in everything he said; he just neglected to provide any supporting information.
[–]ReadeDraconis 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm going to sound hella sarcastic saying this, but, could you point out in my post where I said he's wrong?
I mean, factually, what he says is correct, for the most part. The enslavement and tyranny parts can be argued, depending on your view, but the rest is pretty spot on. And I don't think I ever challenged that.
But he's got a lot of implications there. And without any supporting info, as you said. Atop that, he's posting it as a response to a thread about feminism; one has to wonder the implications of that. Without further context, his post seems to be bordering on crazy extremism itself. At least, that's all I can assume, given what I currently know. I've not got the energy to dig through his post history to find out more about his stance.
That's what I challenged - or attempted to challenge. The lack of relevance to the discussion and his presentation. Not the factual accuracy. Apologies if it came across any differently.
[–]LateralThinker13 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, I fully agree with you.
[–]MjrLeeStoned -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually, you're not democratic if you're against the rules of the democracy.
That's an anarchist.
What you're saying is you wish people would do what you want to do so you can claim that's the true democracy.
Which is lame, Steve...pretty lame, man. Don't hijack true democracy because you don't want to contribute to it.
[–]casmuff 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
their turn on top
I don't get why this trope gets trotted out so often. It's never not been women's turn to be on top. At no point in human history did men have a longer life expectancy than women.
Men did not have a choice as to whether they live or died. Ever since we were hunter-gatherers men were the ones who died so that women didn't have to. I have yet to see any historical inequalities that women faced, nor aggregate thereof, that even comes close to this.
[–]derp-brane 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that's wrong. That's the feminist meme that's they've pushed. There might have been a time after WWII when the returning guys had their brains twisted up by their abusive drill instructors at basic regarding a man and woman's place in society. But there have been times when the division of labor and true partnerships were needed to have a family. Outside of the Victorian era of religious societal control and the turmoil of world wars mental damage. My opinion is that this is all distorted history.
[–]PensivePacing 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Words more true may have been spoken. I haven't seen them. This here is probaly one of human kinds biggest downfalls. Edit: spelling
[–]Throwaway69716971 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link
Bingo. Feminism achieved everything it needed to. Feminism now is about female supremacy. Just like BLM is about black supremacy. Rules for thee, but not for me.
[–]demalo 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exceptionalism in any form is unproductive. Neither started as "we're better than..." until people start imprinting their ideals on the bigger picture. When it becomes whatever the members want it to be the core message is lost.
[–]Terraneaux 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
BLM is about extrajudicial executions of black people. Denying that black men are treated as disposable means you're going to have a hard time wrapping your head around why men are treated as disposable.
[–]hyperion_ho -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
BLM is definitely not about black supremacy.. lol. They sill haven't achieved their goals of equality under the law yet you dense motherfucker
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Under the law they absolutely have. In practice is where they still have an argument.
Throwing stones, glass house and all of that. You’re hella dumb.
[–]hyperion_ho -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
The way a law is executed is what matters, not what it says. Law in practice is the law, for all intents and purposes
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Argue dem semantics.
Black people are equal in the eyes of the law. Full stop. You can keep your mental gymnastics.
[–]hyperion_ho 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Lmao you're the one arguing semantics, you literally said "yes you can make that argument in practice".
By making a fuss about the distinction between law and execution of the law you are arguing semantics
[–]SpiritofJames 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
What evidence is there that the law is biased against black people?
[–]dudeguy1234 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's not about the laws per se (although it was even a couple of decades ago -- feel free to Google "Jim Crow"), it's about unequal application of the law. Courts are substantially more likely to convict black people than white people even given the same circumstances, evidence, etc as well as give them harsher punishments.
[–]SpiritofJames 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm well aware of Jim Crow.
Jury applications or enforcement of the law is not "law." It's a separate issue with a different problem and solution set.
It's important to be clear on these issues. By letter, the law is quite egalitarian from what I can see. But sometimes its application, or even its motivations and originations may not be. And in these cases simple removal (like repeal of all drug prohibition laws) may be the only good answer.
[+]hyperion_ho -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
They have 1/8th the average wealth of white people, for starters, which is a direct repercussion of inheriting less due to having less during segregation
[–]brewmastermonk 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The correct answer is that pot was made illegal by Nixon so he could put down the Civil Rights movement and the HIppies in one blow. By jailing a bunch of black men, Nixon created a generation of black children raised without fathers. And the black community has been collapsing ever since.
[–]hyperion_ho 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's part of it too, but there's also crack. The CIA helped the Contras ship cocaine,
Oh yeah, and Edgar Hoover used COINTELPRO to target black civil rights leaders, and tried to get MLK to commit suicide.
Those aren't the "law" in the same sense that banning pot is a law, but if a country's officials all decide to base their actions on some doctrine, it is essentially an unwritten law
[–]SpiritofJames 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That's not the only causal factor. And that's not a characteristic of the law, but of wealth distribution....
[–]hyperion_ho 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The law is biased based on wealth distribution, so indirectly it is a characteristic of the law.
[–]Supernova141 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Really? no one? You think not a single feminist wants equality?
[–]metaltrite 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
They probably do, but supporting an antagonist of equality doesn't exactly paint that picture
[–]XenoX101 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why every movement and every sect should always be treated with skepticism. Some are better than others, none is immune to the fallibility of human kind. Naturally this includes MRAs. But with a healthy dose of skepticism/cynicism, you can see that for feminism to exist we need MRAs to exist, in order to act as a check and balance for feminists. Though this also means the converse is true, without any feminists women would have no movement to rally around (unless it were renamed, which isn't such a bad idea). And indeed before any feminism women were very much subservient to men in most every domain.
The real problems occur when people start to get shamed for not being part of a movement, e.g. not supporting feminism, or not partaking in politics a la Taylor Swift. Because when it becomes taboo to support something, those views eventually become silenced or so few in number that they become statistically irrelevant, which ultimately affects the amount of representation these views get in the court of law and public opinion/polls. Every ying needs a yang.
[–]alienforceNOTW-11 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
they just want their turn on top
No, MRAs are the only social activists who think like this. Activists from other social movements come together to stand as one. This is a principle of activism anyone involved with these movements understands. You can not isolate yourself, advocate only for yourself, and still expect to be able to improve your condition.
If Men's Rights is a reactionary movement, if it is not a movement of solidarity, it will fail. You will gain the sympathy of none by blaming your problems on feminism, by insisting on a caricature of feminism as reality and by backing up your worldview with a PJW video. If you actually give a shit about the lives of quiet desperation countless men lead, understand that social justice is not zero sum, and by treating it like it is, you're certain to lose out.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
All the "good" feminists have no power to shape public or private policies.
And the solidarity you speak of is being abused by charlatans and power-hungry politicians-in-training, and fails if people do not toe the same ideological line near perfectly.
[–]nicesegue -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is idiotic
[–]cp710 29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This court decision and making women untouchable is anti-feminist. It is saying women must be protected and coddled.
[–]Circle_0f_Life 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. The feminism I'm referring to I believe is coined "gender feminism" in which they are the extremists fighting to have laws changed to benefit the fairer sex
[–]nicesegue 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's always been this way because of outdated ideas on gender roles. Men can be nurturing and women can be bad mothers. This is why feminism is important.
[–]f__ckyourhappiness 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I thought labling a radical end of something as it's whole is what the dems did to us?
TIL the circlejerk conquers all logic.
[–]shaolin_cowboy 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Totally. Feminism isn't about equality anymore. It is about greed and power and having more than men.
[+]nicesegue -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is why we need feminism actually. It's the toxic idea that women are naturally better parents than men that gets these kinds of situations all fucked up. If men can be looked at as nurturing and women are able to be shitty (it's gender roles that makes people think women=sweet). Super messed up. This woman is a monster.
[–]DarthCerebroX 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Bullshit... the last thing we need is even more feminism...Feminists are the ones that actively perpetuate those gender norms because it benefits women .... Mainstream feminist organizations actively fight against shared parenting bills , fight for women to be given even more lenient prison sentences, try to deny all the statistics showing women abuse their partners at the same rates as men, etc etc...
Hell, feminists are the ones that pushed the “tender years doctrine” which states that children belong with their mothers in those early years because women are the best caregivers.
They want to get rid of those gender norms when it harms women.... but they have no problem supporting those gender norms when it benefits women...
Let me paste a comment to illustrate what I mean... I’ll bold the relevant paragraphs, feel free to read the whole thing though.
——
Here’s a dozen examples of mainstream feminist organizations (such as NOW, the most powerful feminist organization in the world) fighting against true gender equality..
** Karen Straughan on the “those aren’t real feminists” argument**
The following is a very informed comment by Karen Straughan in response to a feminist who thinks the many blatant sexists among feminists aren't real feminists:
So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".
That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.
Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.
But I want you to know. You don't matter.
You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."
*You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it *would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.
You're not Mary P Koss (one of the most highly regarded feminists alive today- who is credited with changing the federal rape laws and the FBI definition of rape), who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape... meaning whenever a woman takes advantage of an inebriated/sleeping/unconscious man or forces him to sleep with her, these crimes are classified as a much lesser charge.
You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.
You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.
You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.
You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.
You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.
You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."
You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.
And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.
You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.
—
*Feminists arguing that women should be given even more special treatment in our criminal justice system even though there is already a huge sentencing disparity. *
http://shamelessmag.com/blog/entry/why-we-need-to-focus-on-alternatives-to-womens-incarceration
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/?utm_term=.dc213c43dd23
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/27/opinions/hillary-clinton-women-and-mass-incarceration-crisis/index.html
In our criminal justice system, on average...
https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/sentencing-gap-men-likely-go-prison-mrzs/
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1874742
A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court. The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts. Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.
A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court.
The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts.
Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.
[–]DarthCerebroX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually, just please take a few minutes and read this very detailed, comprehensive and well sourced post about the history of feminism and men’s issues. It contains all the ways in which feminists have fought against true gender equality, and ways in which they have harmed men, male victims, and men’s issues in general. This post contains more examples than I can ever list off in one comment.
Feminists tell you the solution to men’s issues is Feminism, in reality feminists have fought against men’s issues.
[+]nomnivore21 -28 points-27 points-26 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
one situation instantly represents all women ?
[–]Circle_0f_Life 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Not all, it just seems that most women who identify themselves as a feminist are so. Especially since women have started to disassociate themselves with feminism
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Circle_0f_Life 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed, it's an issue of who yells the loudest and has lead to the extremists scaring away the women looking for genuine equality.
[–]GAZAYOUTH93X 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't forget the feminist who wants to put all men in concentration camps.
[–]nomnivore21 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Where’s the proof for either of those claims? You do realize that reddit posts to TumblrinAction are not an accurate representation of feminism or feminists?
[–]Circle_0f_Life 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Hope this helps: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3094917
Here's another: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-why-millennial-women-dont-want-to-call-themselves-feminists I especially like this line from the second article: "Second-wave equity feminists smashed the barriers to greater political, educational and economic opportunities for women. The new challenge for third- and fourth- wave feminism is to take back the term from radical gender feminists and to take back our personal lives from an unyielding workplace."
[–]DarthCerebroX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here’s a very comprehensive, highly detailed and well sourced post about the history of feminism and men’s issues... It contains all the ways in which feminists have fought against true gender equality, and ways in which they have harmed men, male victims, and men’s issues in general. This post contains more examples than I can ever list off in one comment. THIS is an accurate description of feminism/feminists and the reality of their actions... instead of all the ideals they claim to stand for.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the kind of shit that drives someone to murder. When they get fucked by a shit person and the system then fucks them to help the shit person.
[–]Invicturion 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I for one, thank fuck that i dont live in a country with those kind of bullshit divorce laws.. Its completely insane..
[–]clownpenisdotfarts 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
And what magical land do you hail from?
[–]Invicturion 28 points29 points30 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Norway. Where you dont automaticly get fucked up the arse just becouse you divorce. Where you DONT pay support to exwives. Where custody is 50/50 by default unless otherwise agreed to. Where one parent cant move hundreds of miles away from the other parent, unless the other parent agrees. And much more besidea.
[–]Ryuksapple84 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Please adopt me so I can live in Norway.
[–]Invicturion 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Dont get me wrong, we have our issues.. Rampantly gutless politicians, a crumbling road infrastructure thats atleast 20years out of date, wastefull use of public funds, inificiant burocracy etc etc. But it a pretty good place to live in general..
[–]Rylth 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The problems sound eerily familiar.
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Sigh. Norway gets better and better. From a female American.
[–]Invicturion 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
We have our issues.. But for the most part, its a really great place for someone to grow up in! I am glad my son gets to grow up here!
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Me too. God you guys are living the good life while were stuck with King Buttface the Annoying Orange. At least we're not Singapore.
[–]Invicturion 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah well Singapore has been cirkling the wtf drain for a while now.. Lpok on the brightside, Buttface McOrange will either get impeached, or get thrown out in the next election..
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah. I hope we get Sanders this time. Maybe this time, the DNC will actually let us vote instead of having a coronation like last time.
Yeah, The PAP is the worst. Singaporeans are screwed and you can't criticize the PAP there or you go to jail.
[–]AstuteBlackMan 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
WHAT THE FUCK??!?!?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Mhm...And people ask me why I choose to remain single.
Nope. Fuck that. Cameras all around my house, no marriage, and let a woman call the cops on me on my own property.
[–]wrongmoviequotes 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Who among us can’t relate to this? Don’t worry friend.
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's crazy.
[–]tamrix 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Protip : do not ever have children.
[–]Surtysurt 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
OJ
[–]Jarb0t 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fukin hell
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's insane.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]jb_trp 56 points57 points58 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What's really disgusting is how she blatantly admits how the system can work for women: "I beat my child with a wooden spoon until she needed hospitalized. I got off free, because female. Everybody hates me right now, but in time I'll just take some cute pictures, play the victim card, and I think I can get custody of my child down the road ;) (and likely child support payments from the father)."
[–]Azurenightsky 47 points48 points49 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Listen to it.
"I beat my child with a weapon, a mace made of wood, with enough force to cause trauma, not a light touch, not a playful snack, a gentle nudge, but actual. Fucking. Force. Against a fucking eight month old child! Eight months! That poor girl is going to be fucked mentally for the rest of her life. How do you even remotely accept that YOUR MOTHER, MOMMY, FUCKING MOMMY WAS ALLOWED TO HIT YOU HARD ENOUGH TO BREAK THE SKIN AND THE WORLD KEPT ON TURNING.
I've never heard my mother say she loves me, let me tell you, the hole left behind by this in that child's life is monstrous. This whole situation is disgusting and women like this are the problem with feminism.
This right here is toxic femininity. This is the Oedipal mother swallowing the child whole to destroy any meaning, any value she may have, she does it with impunity no less. Not even the remotest feeling of guilt or wrong doing after she BEAT HER EIGHT MONTH OLD DAUGHTER WITH A FUCKING WEAPON.
How anyone can accept this even remotely is heinous, how anyone could remotely hesitate to denounce this monster, to do what must be done and deny her the possibility to destroy another life, another long line of possible repercussion that could span generations of abuse and we fucking let them off. It's disgusting. My own mother uses old needles to give my little sister her insulin injections when she's low on them, she acts in an equally heinous manner, but it's all psychological with her, never physical. She's smart that way. My kid sister ran away from home to live with us. Two nearly three months later, the system is still pushing her to go back with her mother. My sister tried committing suicide twice this year because of that cunt.
You better fucking believe this shit is fucked.
[–]Invicturion 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thats beyond fucked up man.. Stay strong! We got ya back!
[–]Sunagwa 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I have a brother and a lifelong friend who are both dealing with this type of vindictive woman. Woman like this don't care about the kid. The kid is just another weapon to be used to hurt there ex. Along with the way the system is stacked in there favor it makes for an extremely effective, soul crushing weapon indeed.
Just as one quick example my friends ex used there daughter to leave him some heart wrenching voicemails right after there breakup (he wasn't answering the phone for obvious reasons so she could leave all the messages she wanted). She left multiple message of his little girl crying saying she misses her daddy, wheres daddy etc. etc. Obviously egged on by the cold hearted 'mom'.
You'd think something like this could be used against her in family court, you would be wrong.
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Heartbreaking. And my dad hates the MRA because he lives in a fantasy world where women and men are equal under the law in practice and in theory. That's because my mom decided to not be vindictive and so he doesn't have to pay alimony (she also makes more) and we have 50/50 custody.
[–]lroosemusic 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Narcissists
[–]BernieSandersgirl101 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What a terrible person.
[–]nik516 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
people say hate is a strong word , no its not its the right word.
[–]The_Best_01 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That picture of the poor baby girl is literally making me cry right now. I need a hug. :(
A horrible, despicable cunt does that, that's who.
[–]SupremeDesigner 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
hugs
[–]The_Best_01 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks. I'm still sobbing, dammit.
Me too. (Hugs).
[–]Wannabkate 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its called a psychopath.
[–][deleted] 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]mensmod[M] 18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Post anything like this again and you will be banned from this sub.
[–]pranavrules 26 points27 points28 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
What did they post?!
[–]Rooi_Aap 20 points21 points22 points 6 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Rule 7: "Advocating for violence/illegal acts will be removed."
AFAIK Assassination is violent and illegal.
I'll pm you how I saw the comment.
[–]Krak_Nihilus 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How to see deleted comments isn't really a secret. Just change the r in the link to c, it'll go to ceddit.com which will show removed/deleted comments.
/u/RaiseHellPraiseDale3 /u/SerenityNaomi
[–]Rooi_Aap 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wasn't sure if the mods wouldn't like it.
[–]RaiseHellPraiseDale3 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yo can you pm me that as well
[–]SerenityNaomi 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd llove to know that too please
I mean, they weren't really advocating for it, just wondering why some people couldn't do it.
The number of upvotes that comment had is a bit disturbing though.
[–]ooga_chaka 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They seemed to support of killing her. According to ceddit, anyway.
[–]TacoOrgy 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[removed]
[–]geared4war 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you, mod. Keep up the good work.
[–]ExpertGamerJohn 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What did he say
[–]ICEKAT 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for your work.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Someone who has learned none of her actions have consequences.
Yeah.
[–]KalElified 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This makes my fucking blood boil.
[–]Silvystreak 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Someone that doesn't give a fuck
[–]BaitMasterJeff 332 points333 points334 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Human garbage.
[–]PastaPoop 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not even human at that point
[–]EoinMcLove 79 points80 points81 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The legal system has badly, badly failed that child.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 127 points128 points129 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
That is a national paper. Everyone knows what happened.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If the judge thought there was a problem he would have done something. Can a local group outrank a judge.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would hope so.. power to the people and all that
[–]alrightknight 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This has been all over social media since it for a while in Australia. It is just starting to get international coverage.. Trust me when I say everyone around here knows about it.
[–]OrphanStrangler 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hopefully her life is ruined and she dies alone from a heroin overdose
[–]rooolng 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Doesn't matter. Typically an official complaint needs to be made. Anyone living in the area should report.
[–]DmitriyTokar 52 points53 points54 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Kinda wondering where is she now and if anyone recognizes her when she walks by.
[–]IronJohnMRA 106 points107 points108 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Poor kid.
[–]yoshi314 32 points33 points34 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
the more i look at it, the more i think there are some things worth going to jail for.
[–]hackersaq[🍰] 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The list of things worth going to jail for is very, very long.
[–]American_potatoe 95 points96 points97 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
How has she made it this far in life being that horrible of a person? Going to go hug my 10 month old now.
[–]BacardiWhiteRum 40 points41 points42 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Good looks i'd assume
[–]American_potatoe 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I don't care how hot a girl is, crazy can trump hot eventually.
I dated an absolute fox in college but in about 3 weeks the crazy overpowered the hotness and I ghosted her. It was all a mess. Saying i dodged a bullet is a massive understatement.
[–]tysonchickenuggets 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
What crazy stuff did she do?
[–]American_potatoe 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One of the worst things was she set her hand bag on fire to protest something her mom had done. I don't remember what it was about but igniting your purse doesn't really do anything other than show that you are insane.
[–][deleted] 727 points728 points729 points 6 years ago (104 children) | Copy Link
Welcome to a life without any consequences. The saddest part about this is she's right. Nothing will happen to her. She probably will get custody of her child soon.
This is what happens when our society let feminism become so toxic and extreme.
[–]DankityMcStank 150 points151 points152 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I would simply say this is what happens when a society becomes complacent.
[–][deleted] 54 points55 points56 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Complacency is acceptance.
[–]polakfury 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I will never accept failure
[–]Azurenightsky 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Good Luck getting anywhere then. You gotta do things badly before you can do them well. Being an expert in a Field just means you've failed at trying more things to work in that field than most laymen.
[–]Mark_Bastard 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Those experts did not accept failure.
[–][deleted] 40 points41 points42 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is what happens when things are masked with good intentions. Feminism convinces people it is about making men and women equal which is a good thing. However this is the true nature of feminism. It leads to just working on making women's lives better no matter what the circumstances are.
[–]tnorthb 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't know that anyone can say "feminism does..." with confidence.
As long as we all agree men and women should be treated equally in the eyes of employers and the law, it's all good.
[–]DarthCerebroX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can .... I can say “what feminism does” and actually back it up with easily verifiable examples...
Please take a few minutes and read this very detailed, comprehensive and well sourced post about the history of feminism and men’s issues. It contains all the ways in which feminists have fought against true gender equality, and ways in which they have harmed men, male victims, and men’s issues in general. This post contains more examples than I can ever list off in one comment.
[–]wwwyzzrd 37 points38 points39 points 6 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
This is female chauvinism, not feminism.
A lot of right-wing talk-show type people have used the term 'feminism' incorrectly for long enough that your definition is in the zeitgeist. So I don't blame you for using the wrong term, it's been repeatedly presented in the wrong light.
Rational men and women need to stand together on this, rather than getting divisive about these sorts of things. In most ways, rulings like this are actually the opposite of feminism. They come from a paternalist ideology where a few things are true:
1.) Women are lessor therefore they don't know any better when they do something, therefore their actions have fewer consequences. They are more innately childlike and pure.
2.) Women's place is inherently in the home and with the children, and separating a woman from her children is inherently cruel, even if she is unfit and the man would be a superior caregiver. In this same worldview, men are only good at doing manly things like breadwinning, drinking, and dying in wars for 'glory' and 'honor'.
As with anything, there are people who are the worst examples of feminism, who are simply female chauvinists and believe the crimes that men have perpetrated against women throughout the centuries justify any means of retribution. But that is a fringe group, the equivalent would be assuming the nice muslim couple next door are extremist islamic terrorists.
The majority of feminism is a common sense ideology, that women have mostly the same abilities and thoughts as men do, and that therefore they should have similar rights and responsibilities. You have to put that in a historical context for it to make sense as a movement.
In the 1970s in the US, my mother couldn't open a bank account or take a line of credit without her father (or other male relative's) permission (read up on the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974). This was in the liberal north-east. It was divisive then, but the main points of it are no longer really debatable.
Consider that for a bit, and maybe reconsider your terminology and to be a little more precise in what you're railing against.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's why "feminism" isn't the right word for what you talk about, which is in fact egalitarianism. Not as catchy, but more accurate. The belief that people, regardless of gender, ethnicity, place of birth, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status etc. are equal in value goes much further than male/female gender.
The term shouldn't contain a gender in and of itself. There's far more inequality between other demographics than the male/female divide nowadays anyway. You're right that conservative pundits muddied the feminism waters, but there are plenty of feminists who gladly equate feminism to female chauvinism and superiority.
The word facilitates a perpetual, unjustified victim mentality that, in the worst cases, results in evil shit like this.
[–]wwwyzzrd 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You’re probably right, egalitarianism makes more sense than the word feminism but that doesn’t mean that what op was referring to should be labeled straight up feminism either. Liberal feminism is very mild in its beliefs. Radical feminism isn’t.
[–]Juan_Golt 62 points63 points64 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Maternal preference in child custody was put in place by feminists.
The Duluth model of domestic violence was put in place by feminists.
It doesn't matter what you think feminism is, it matters what politically active feminists do. I'll believe feminism is about equality when the get on the right side of equal parenting rights for fathers, and equal protections for men in abusive relationships.
In the 1970s in the US, my mother couldn't open a bank account or take a line of credit without her father (or other male relative's) permission
I'm not trying to minimize the importance of a bank account 40 years ago. It's a good thing it was fixed. But right now (2017), in the US a father can't see his child without the mothers permission or a court order. And feminists defend this practice, and call father's rights groups "the abusers lobby".
[+]wwwyzzrd -9 points-8 points-7 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying people haven't done stupid shit in the name of feminism.
As I said, feminism is a hugely broad category. It also doesn't matter what you think feminism is. You might as well be talking about 'the whites' when you're complaining about the KKK. It's not wrong but it's rhetorically foolish if you want to persuade anyone.
Using terminology so loosely delegitimizes your point and makes you seem like a men's superiority wack-a-doo when you aren't one. I'm just asking you to raise the level of discourse rather than lowering it to a throwaway generalization that a lot of people will relate to in a bad way.
[–]Juan_Golt 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We will earn the label anti-feminist anyway. Warren Farrell was on the board of NOW, and is the most soft spoken person who still considers himself a feminist. Yet his talks are picketed, heckled, blocked just as hard as anyone else.
For a long time I wondered if it would be better to try and drive a wedge between the various feminist groups. Separate the more mainstream coffee shop types from the radicals. Move more into the C.H. Sommers, Erin Pizzey, Warren Farrell camp, but tbf I don't see it happening considering how negatively those three have been treated.
Regardless of how 'nicely' we act, anything less than full throated support of the majority of feminism will earn us the title of "misogynists who want women back in the kitchen". It's better to not mince words, and identify exactly where/when/how political feminism has been against gender equality. People are more ready to hear that than equivocation.
[–]wwwyzzrd 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
We will earn the label anti-feminist anyway.
So? You’ll actually come off as more rational than the people you’re disagreeing with. You might persuade someone.
It’s not about being nice. it’s about being accurate, persuasive, and more importantly making an argument people don’t automatically tune out because it’s just another misogynist guy complaining about women voting and wearing pantsuits.
[–]Juan_Golt 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Accurate would mean not shying away from the last 30 years of feminist political activism merely because they hide under a label that used to mean something more. People need to know that political feminism is much more than the historical dictionary definition. Imagine if a Republican answered every argument against their tax plan with: "We are the party that ended slavery, if you aren't a republican, that means you're in favor of slavery."
As for persuasive. Following the tone police is a journey without end. When it comes to men's rights People who need us to lie and cover for feminism 'in order to be convinced' will never really be convinced, and instead will simply keep moving the line further. No thanks. If someone says "Gee I could support equal parenting rights, but only if you stop criticizing the feminist approach." <- This is someone whose 'support' is never going to arrive. Instead they are simply trying to silence criticism.
[–]Hirudin 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As I said, feminism is a hugely broad category.
And the type of feminists that do this just happen to be the ones that are in charge and make the rules and direct billions of dollars of taxpayer money.
The rest are irrelevant.
[–]kickrox 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Your argument is so sad and even when it's pointed out to you, you just can't give up on the No True Scotsman.
[–][deleted] 57 points58 points59 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm not denying the historical importance of feminism. I'm talking about the present state of feminism. Feminists nowadays will be in total uproar over a silly thing such as Mansplaining, but when something like this happens they could care less.
[–]polakfury 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Seems like a trend that they are only egalitarian only when it benefits them
[–]wwwyzzrd 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying you're wrong. I think it's just as messed up as you do when a shitty mom like this gets custody.
I'm asking you to use better and more specific language so that an entire section of people (who probably agree with you, by the way) don't misunderstand you. Feminism is super broad, as are feminists as a category.
When you make a mistake like this, it delegitimizes this sort of subject for us in a very subtle way by making reasonable rational people who agree with you seem crazy to people who hold very mainstream feminist views. You're undermining yourself in that regard.
[–]Juan_Golt 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
mainstream feminist views
Most people do not identify as feminists (only 18%). Yet 82% believe in gender equality.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-why-millennial-women-dont-want-to-call-themselves-feminists
Most people do not consider feminism and gender equality to be synonymous. The 'mainstream' is ready for a discussion around gender equality that isn't constrained by feminism.
[–]DarthCerebroX 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.
[–]Spacyy 32 points33 points34 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
A lot of right-wing talk-show type people have used the term 'feminism' incorrectly
Self proclaimed feminists are feminists. Wether you like em' or not. No true scotman fallacies won't change that.
[–]wwwyzzrd 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I don't deny that, but I'll just quote myself as I covered this.
I'm not denying there are shitty feminists, but you don't have to go to war with every person who thinks equality between men and women is a good thing. Because that is the literal definition of feminism.
So if you use better terminology for them i.e. female chauvinists (which is what they are), you don't have to be in a fight with a broad class of people who will misunderstand you.
[–]reddituser5k 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The current definition of feminism is female superiority.. and it has been that way for a pretty long time.
[+]Magiclad -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Bro. It's not. Not in any lexicon anywhere. If you're going to talk absolute definitions because you wanna attack a point by the semantics of it, it helps when you're right.
Merriam-Webster
Encyclopedia Britannica
And a Wikipedia table to help illustrate the point /u/wwwyzzrd is trying to make.
[–]orcscorper 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bro. Did you just link to not one, but two dictionary definitions of feminism? Rookie mistake. This discussion has been repeated a thousand times, and your side has been shot down every time. Anyone who is not a moron knows the dictionary definition of feminism is irrelevant, and the morons will never get it, so there is no point in rehashing the same old arguments. Suffice it to say you are wrong.
[–]nate20140074 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If I call myself an egalitarian, but also fight for an apartheid state, am I still an egalitarian?
Would egalitarianism now include apartheid?
[–]DarthCerebroX 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminism and feminists have a long history of fucking over men and silencing men's issues... so yes, they kind of are in direct opposition to men’s rights and true gender equality..
Do you have any idea how the Men's Rights Activists that are trying to bring awareness and fix mens issues are treated by feminists?
Every time MRA's try to hold an event or conference they are protested, and threatened, censored and many times shut down. They are met with chants of "racist, sexist, anti gay- go away MRA". Even academics such as English professor at University of Ottawa, Janice Fiamengo, was trying to give a lecture about men's issues and feminists pull the fire alarm and shut the whole thing down.
They can't even bring awareness to Men's issues, much less start to address them. How can MRA's fight to fix these problems when they're not even allowed to make people aware of them!?
Another example is one I already mentioned, the way feminists have fought to keep a monopoly on the domestic violence issue. You should research Erin Pizzey . She's a women that created the very first women's shelter. After she had spent so much time with DV victims (men and women because she didn't discriminate) she learned that men were victims just as often as women, and that the abuse often went both ways. When she tried to release her findings feminists fought to censor her. They threatened her, harassed her and ran her out of the country. She went on to co-found A Voice for Men and became a strong supporter of Men's Rights issues.
This kind of behavior and pushback is the reason that there are thousands of DV shelters for women today, but only one men's shelter. And out of all the female domestic violence shelters, less than 5% are willing to take in men.
Also the Duluth Model that was created by feminists which states that DV is caused by the patriarchy giving all men power over all women. They claim that because women are the oppressed gender, it's impossible for them to be the aggressor. These ideas were made into laws that have discriminated against male victims for decades and these practices are still in use in many states today.
If you take the time to actually research the feminist movement, you might learn that feminism has harmed men and fought against men's issues a lot more that you ever imagined.
There's a reason we are anti-feminist..
EDIT: regarding feminism and domestic violence....
Even today, with all the statistics showing that men make up half of all domestic abuse victims... and that women are actually the aggressor 70% when it comes to unreciprocated violence....
.. Mainstream modern feminists continue to push these false narratives that domestic violence is a women's issue and that it's Men that are the abusers.
Katherine Spillar , director of Majority Feminist Organization and executive editor for Ms Magazine, said in her interview for the red pill movie that...
"The whole issue of domestic violence-- that's just another word really. It's a clean up word for wife beating.. because that's what it really is. Its not girls that are beating up on boys, it's boys that are beating up on girls."
"The whole issue of domestic violence-- that's just another word really. It's a clean up word for wife beating.. because that's what it really is.
Its not girls that are beating up on boys, it's boys that are beating up on girls."
Yeah... this is coming from someone with a lot of power and influence in the feminist movement and you could argue that she is a big spokesperson for the movement...
.. And yet she has no problem denying the existence of male DV victims and painting men, and only men, as the abusers.
[–]Darkling5499 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
no, it's feminism. with nothing to actually fight for for over 30 years, it's become a toxic, hateful shell of what it used to be. people can try to no true scotsman it all they want, but this story is modern feminism 100%.
[–]Demolition_Menz 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know why that is, right? It's because MEN WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR WOMEN'S DEBTS. First wave feminists had every opportunity to change this and they didn't. Karen Straughan aka /u/girlwriteswhat explains:
"1) Won the right for married women to own their own property and income, and hold it separate from their husband's control. [Yet] maintained the legal entitlement of married women to be supported financially by their husband. (Otherwise known as, "what's mine is mine and what's yours is ours.) Her entitlement to his support even extended to the tax burden on her property and income--property and income he was legally prohibited from touching.
So basically, instead of demanding equal rights as administrators of the marital income and property, they demanded the rights of unmarried persons without the responsibilities, and the rights of married women without accompanying responsibilities. Men were still held to their responsibility as sole provider for the family, including the wife, but now had to do it without access to their wives' incomes and property. There were men sent to prison in the UK for tax evasion for being unable to pay the taxes owing on the property/income of their wealthier wives. One suffragette, Dr. Elizabeth Wilks even refused (as was her right under the law) to provide her husband with the necessary documentation so he could calculate the taxes, and given that he was a schoolteacher and responsible for paying for everything else, he couldn't have afforded to pay it regardless. While he was in prison, she urged other suffragettes to do what she had. He was released from prison on humanitarian grounds due to his failing health, and died a few months later."
Feminism has been rotten from the start. They have never once attempted to redress gender injustices faced by men and boys.
[–]bakedpotato486 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gynocentrism is the more appropriate word here. Female chauvinists wouldn't have the authority that they hold in today's society if men weren't handing it over so willingly for so little in return.
[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sorry but this type of female chauvinism, as you describe it, is very closely linked to feminism.
Look at the activities of the UK feminist organisation Women In Prison. Their entire focus is on keeping women out of prison, even though it has been shown over and over that men are treated more harshly by the judicial system, and women are only a tiny minority of inmates. The journalists linked to this group regularly push out tear-jerking stories about how prison is no place for these delicate little flowers.
I'm not saying women should be in prison. I'm just pointing out that feminists are pushing for further inequality in an area where women are already privileged.
Feminism is not as innocent as you like to believe.
[+]throwawaywahwahwah -24 points-23 points-22 points 6 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link
Feminism just means women and men are equal. And deserving of equal punishments. That poor little girl should never have to be around that awful woman again.
[–]polakfury 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminism just means women and men are equal.
I never seen Dworkin state as such?
[–]throwawaywahwahwah 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Like I said to someone else, any -ism is an unattainable ideal.
[–]polakfury 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
true
[–][deleted] 37 points38 points39 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
No feminism doesn't mean that anymore. It might have started as that but now it has gone into the deep end.
[+]milf_hunter69 -18 points-17 points-16 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Webster Dictionary: "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"
Cambridge Dictionary: "the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state"
Nope, /u/throwawaywahwahwah is correct
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Eletctrik 32 points33 points34 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
A strict dictionary definition is irrelevant when people use and perceive the word differently. We might as well argue that retard means to slow the progress of something and that gay means happy. Sure, you are technically correct, but not really.
[+]milf_hunter69 -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Ok sure - I agree that dictionary definitions do not always match the actual meaning of a word.
Then lets see what Mary Wollstonecraft, probably the most famous feminist author has to say regarding what feminism is:
"I do not wish them [women] to have power over men; but over themselves." - A Vindication of the Rights of Woman
Her view of what feminism seems to be the same as the dictionaries.
Now I don't think our discussion will ever reach an agreeable result, but just curiously asking and keeping it civil, what do you think feminism means? Just curious.
[–]DammitEd 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not taking either side here, but she died before 1800. To imply that a movement or ideology has gone completely unchanged for several hundred years is dishonest.
[–]WikiTextBot 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Mary Wollstonecraft
Mary Wollstonecraft (; 27 April 1759 – 10 September 1797) was an English writer, philosopher, and advocate of women's rights. During her brief career, she wrote novels, treatises, a travel narrative, a history of the French Revolution, a conduct book, and a children's book. Wollstonecraft is best known for A Vindication of the Rights of Woman (1792), in which she argues that women are not naturally inferior to men, but appear to be only because they lack education. She suggests that both men and women should be treated as rational beings and imagines a social order founded on reason.
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[–]polakfury 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Eletctrik 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think that over the past perhaps 20 or so years, the feminist movement has shifted away from getting equal rights for all, to simply getting women more rights and privileges, in all areas. Even in areas where they already have more than men (e.g. child custody, jail time, cancer funding, rape cases). Sure, the loud extremists in the feminist movement are assuredly the minority, but I can't help but notice how the discussions are less about gaining equality and more about simply getting women more rights. The extremists may be well, extreme, but their sentiment is surely shared to a lesser degree by many.
[–]Luchadorgreen 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol apparently the dictionary determines reality. I guess we could solve the problem of murder by redefining it.
I guess dictionary definitions are more important than real life actions.... I thought actions speak louder than words though?
Did you just link to not one, but two dictionary definitions of feminism? Rookie mistake. This discussion has been repeated a thousand times, and your side has been shot down every time. Anyone who is not a moron knows the dictionary definition of feminism is irrelevant, and the morons will never get it, so there is no point in rehashing the same old arguments. Suffice it to say you are wrong.
[–]nforne 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bingo. In my workplace, women are the majority, right up to the very top, at around 60-70%. What are they doing about it? Well there's no thought of halting Bring Your Daughter To Work Day, or winding up the Women's Focus Group that gives female employees exclusive training on getting promotion, and help with application forms from senior HR.
Nope, it's business as usual, as more women is always a good thing.
Equality? Don't make me laugh.
[–]scyth3s 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok summer child. What feminism says it is and what it actually is are very different.
[–]throwawaywahwahwah -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don’t be disrespectful. Any -ism is an unattainable goal in reality.
[–]Juan_Golt 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Christianity just means you believe in the ten commandments. If you aren't christian you must like murdering people, and stealing things.
[–]TheCarpenter671 -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
THANK YOU. This was like saying true Christianity is polygamist Mormons, no its just a small subgroup.
[–]BlainetheHisoka 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No it's be like saying most Christians are catholic;
I.e. Something actually true.
[–]TheCarpenter671 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yea so that's not true, least not in america, 50% of Christians worldwide are Catholic, but in america 70 million of 180 million Christians are Catholic. Nice try.
[+]niroby -11 points-10 points-9 points 6 years ago* (34 children) | Copy Link
Welcome to a life without any consequences
You do realise she suffered consequences right? She was given a suspended sentence (which means if she fails her alcohol and drug testing or gets arrested for anything else she goes directly to jail). She lost all custody of both her children and was only given 12 hours of supervised visitation, after those 12 hours are up it goes back to a judge. Who will consider her text messages as part of the case for her visitation rights.
She also only got this lenient sentence in part because she showed that she was making a change. She completed a rehab program, was getting psychological help and had enrolled in further education. If she fails in these then the leniency she has been shown stops.
Do you think the end goal of our justice system should solely be punishment, or do you think it should involve rehabilitation?
Edit and frankly this is the problem with Men's Rights. You see a woman getting a lenient sentence and you go that's not fair, a man would have been treated way harsher. And then instead of saying, we should change the system for men, you say we should punish women more harshly. You'd rather see a woman punished than a man have leniency.
[–]DarthCerebroX 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
*Sentencing disparity *
This is an issue for men’s rights because Men are systemically being discriminated against and women are given preferential treatment in our justice system.
Why is it that women have all the same rights and opportunities as men, but yet they aren’t held equally accountable for their actions?
In the U.K., ( where this particular case is from) judges are even ordered to be more lenient on female criminals.
Judges told: ‘Be more lenient to women criminals’
Judges have been told to deal less severely with female criminals than men when determining how to sentence them. Female criminals are more likely to have mental health or educational difficulties and to have parenting responsibilities, while a lower proportion will have committed violent crimes than men, according to new guidelines.
Judges have been told to deal less severely with female criminals than men when determining how to sentence them.
Female criminals are more likely to have mental health or educational difficulties and to have parenting responsibilities, while a lower proportion will have committed violent crimes than men, according to new guidelines.
Yeah, because men don’t suffer from mental illnesses, struggle with poverty and poor education , huh?
Judges ought to "bear these matters in mind" when passing sentence, according to the Equal Treatment Bench Book, published by the Judicial Studies Board (JSB).
Hmm... why are judges told to consider all these other special “factors” when sentencing but yet they don’t give men the same considerations?
The body, which is responsible for training judges, said female victims, witnesses and criminals have a very different experience in court than male counterparts.
You’re damn right they do... They have the pussy pass and are constantly being given slaps on the wrist instead of being punished to the same standard as men are.
It said: "These differences highlight the importance of the need for sentencers to bear these matters in mind when sentencing." Quoting Supreme Court judge Baroness Hale, it added: "It is now well recognised that a misplaced conception of equality has resulted in some very unequal treatment for women and girls."
It said: "These differences highlight the importance of the need for sentencers to bear these matters in mind when sentencing."
Quoting Supreme Court judge Baroness Hale, it added: "It is now well recognised that a misplaced conception of equality has resulted in some very unequal treatment for women and girls."
Unequal treatment huh?... They’re right but in the complete opposite way than they intended. Women are treated unequally because they are given preferential treatment.
Oh... and before you or some feminist pops in trying to say that this disparity is because of “the patriarchy” and traditional gender norms...
Keep mind that feminists actually argue for, and fight for women to be given special treatment in our justice system. They don’t give a shit that women are treated like they don’t have any agency over their actions in these cases... because women benefit from it.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
A 500 dollar fine is a joke
Suspended sentance means shes a free person so thats not a punishment.
No drugs or alcohol... oh man what a killer punishment, its almost like she has to live like most parents do.
[–]agtk 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here's how it went down:
Last week, District Court Judge Jack Costello called Norman’s offending as “far from the most serious of offending of this type.” Norman was facing a maximum of 13 years imprisonment after pleading guilty to one count of aggravated causing harm with intent to cause harm. Nevertheless, Costello noted that Evie did not sustain bony or intracranial injury from the assault and therefore would completely heal. He also considered Norman’s own troubled adolescence and subsequent adult relationships, as well as her diagnosis of borderline personality disorder. “You are clearly remorseful for your actions,” the judge said in handing out the sentence, adding that a jail sentence was clearly warranted in her case. “Having said that, as I also said, the nature and duration of the offending here renders it less serious than many others.” As she has pleaded guilty to the charge, Norman’s sentencing had also been reduced by 30 percent. Had she not done that, she would have had received two years and six months’ jail, which would be reduced to one year and nine months. Costello instead gave her a non-parole period of 10 months. It has been suspended upon Norman’s entering into a bond of $500. She also has to be in good behaviour and comply with all the conditions of the bond. She will also be under the supervision of a community corrections officer and has been told to complete any counselling, therapy programs or assessments recommended by the officer.
Last week, District Court Judge Jack Costello called Norman’s offending as “far from the most serious of offending of this type.” Norman was facing a maximum of 13 years imprisonment after pleading guilty to one count of aggravated causing harm with intent to cause harm.
Nevertheless, Costello noted that Evie did not sustain bony or intracranial injury from the assault and therefore would completely heal. He also considered Norman’s own troubled adolescence and subsequent adult relationships, as well as her diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.
“You are clearly remorseful for your actions,” the judge said in handing out the sentence, adding that a jail sentence was clearly warranted in her case. “Having said that, as I also said, the nature and duration of the offending here renders it less serious than many others.”
As she has pleaded guilty to the charge, Norman’s sentencing had also been reduced by 30 percent. Had she not done that, she would have had received two years and six months’ jail, which would be reduced to one year and nine months. Costello instead gave her a non-parole period of 10 months. It has been suspended upon Norman’s entering into a bond of $500. She also has to be in good behaviour and comply with all the conditions of the bond. She will also be under the supervision of a community corrections officer and has been told to complete any counselling, therapy programs or assessments recommended by the officer.
Based on her actions and immaturity, the girl will likely go through some counseling, therapy and anger management. These will likely be preconditions to earn more visitation with her kids and eventually custody of the kids. If she doesn't comply at all then she goes to jail. I think the judge was definitely way too lenient with her, but her smug attitude later didn't enter into his consideration and the hope is obviously that she can become a good parent to the kids eventually. We might write her off but those kids only have one mother and hopefully she can become the kind of mother they deserve. I'd hope the system would treat men the same. I know it doesn't always but it should.
[+]niroby -7 points-6 points-5 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Regardless of how much you disagree with the punishments, they were still applied. So pretending like she received no consequences is patently false. Complain that the consequences should have been harsher, but don't lie.
You didn't answer my question. What do you think the end goal of the justice system is?
[–]duffelbagninja 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Not this. Put a guy in the same situation and tell us how lenient the judge is going to be.
[–]niroby -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
That's not answering the question.
If a man had experienced childhood sexual abuse, been raped multiple times, had mental health problems, and was now showing remorse for their actions, had completed rehab, was getting psychological help, and had committed to further education, I'd like to see them get a similar level of leniency. Would you prefer to see them thrown in a cell with no rehabilitation prospects?
[–]duffelbagninja 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Remorse in under 3 months, yeah it is for being brought to task for her actions not yet for those actions. To be blunt, that healing process ,you were implying has occurred, takes YEARS to happen if ever. She is still psychopathic / borderline personality disorder / highly manipulative.
And tell me again, how a guy has the same rehabilitation prospects?
[–]niroby 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
To be blunt, that healing process ,you were implying has occurred, takes YEARS to happen if ever.
I didn't state that it occurred, I said she was working towards that goal.
You seem to be reading statements that I'm not making. You asked if a man should receive the same leniency, and I said if their situation was similar they should. You didn't ask about the current state of the justice system, or if I think there are inequal sentencings. You seem to want to have a specific argument and what I say doesn't seem to matter.
You still haven't answered my question. What do you think the goal of the justice system should be?
[–]duffelbagninja 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
If a man had experienced childhood sexual abuse, been raped multiple times, had mental health problems, and was now showing remorse for their actions, had completed rehab, was getting psychological help, and had committed to further education
Her texts after the trial show she is not showing remorse, she is taunting.
You are implying that this woman has a bunch of excuses for her behavior (Oh, poor her. She is the victim. Look at everything that happened to her. Not the infant she beat so badly, don't look at that child because the helpless woman is the real victim here). So while she is demonstrability capable of extreme violence (proven), we should let her loose in the community (done) . While she is committed to going through therapy, rehab and education the community at large should not worry. It is not like Lorien beat anyone especially an extremely capable infant, who could easily defend themselves. What could go wrong here? Perhaps after the therapy, rehab, and education has worked she could go back into society. Not before.
<s>By asking me what I think "the goal of the justice system should be?", well gee golly, I thought a severely beaten infant who had a parent (father) that loved her, might receive justice. We might see some sentencing where an infant would not have to be trouble by her abuser. But what was I thinking? It appears that abusing your child is okay if you are a mother. So, obviously, the justice system goal is to return the child to the abuser at the most prodigious rate possible after white washing the crime.</s -more than half ways, anyways.>
[–]Deriak27 41 points42 points43 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Friendly reminder to sign a petition for her retrial:
https://www.change.org/p/the-supreme-court-of-south-australia-retrial-lorien-norman-of-south-australia-for-the-aggravated-assault-on-her-daughter-evie
[–]thegreatlordlucifer -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
isn't that double jeopardy
[–]PizzaBadger10 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
According to Wikipedia:
On 30 July 2008, South Australia also introduced legislation to scrap parts of its double jeopardy law, legalising retrials for serious offences with "fresh and compelling" evidence, or if the acquittal was tainted.
[–]thegreatlordlucifer 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
awesome
[–]redthrow1125 -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're going to petition the US government to retry a woman in Australia?
[–]casmuff 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
petitioning the Supreme Court of South Australia
TIL the Supreme Court of South Australia is an arm of the US government.
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"The courts no longer treat family violence as less serious than assault of a stranger".
Apart from the majority of child abuse, which is committed by women, it seems.
Interestingly this state, South Australia, had a bad record punishing female criminals. They used to have a law that said any married woman who commits a crime can automatically blame her husband, that law was reduced but it's still considered a "good defense".
[–]DFisBUSY 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They used to have a law that said any married woman who commits a crime can automatically blame her husband
Really? Jesus christ...
[–]chumpess 58 points59 points60 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The Australia Justice system is a complete joke. I’m disgusted that this sort of thing goes unpunished. Chances are she will get supervised visits in the near future. I’d say she gave up her right as a mother the moment she took to that baby with a spoon. The father should be allowed to subject that monster to the same punishment she gave that poor child.
[–]Chrizzeay 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wonder what happens when the child grows up to be old enough to understand the implications and reality of what happened, when the father shows the evidence, such as this article.
This is horrible. Where are your protective instincts as a parent? A child is utterly defenseless on its own and relies on being protected by others, which is usually and should be the parents' job. ಠ_ಠ
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
[–]BlueOrange22 611 points612 points613 points 6 years ago* (89 children) | Copy Link
This story was just unbelievable. To me, this shows that the Australian court system has to be under influence of a very malicious and toxic force of some kind. Feminists fought to prevent women going to prison for anything and now we get this.
[–]BesottedScot 94 points95 points96 points 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Why are you talking about the British court system? This case was in Australia.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]jmkiii 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Same logic: Why are Saudi women just recently allowed to drive? Why didn't you do something about that sooner? We're all men, right?
[–]febreeze1 40 points41 points42 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
LMAO you cant just ninja edit your comment then back it up with a different country....hahahaha holy fuck
[–]thane_of_cawdor 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hahahaha so funny. “My research has shown that the British court system is systematically biased and...oh it’s Australia? Well then. My research has shown that the Australian court system...”
[–]febreeze1 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
LOL he deleted it
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]febreeze1 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
LOL don't pass it off as a typing error cause your second comment said somethin along the lines of "global" communication hahaha like there's some huge conspiracy. I read the article, the only reason I commented on your comment was because you played it off then made another huge generalization about another country and applied your fake statistics to that one too 😂.
Don't get me wrong, this case in the post is fucked up, somethin went wrong in the system 100%. Doesn't excuse your stupid comments though lol
[–]febreeze1 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hahaha Jesus man.
[–]Mallago 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Lol bullshit, 9 upvotes that fast. It's obvious you guys are coordinating that... Such fragile things, feminist women! So that's what you focus on, the country, but not what actually happened? You just dismiss the story because of a reddit comment? That's really what invalidates the story to you?
[–]febreeze1 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Coordinating...? You're that dense huh. I'm focused on the comment that tried to make a broad generalization of a country's court system to back up the Original post when it was a VASTLY different country & then continued to peddle the "same thing happens here though cause they have accents duh"
[–]Mallago 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
So, not the case of child abuse? It's obvious to any reasonable person that the mother received lenient treatment because of her gender. And feminism is a global movement, what's happening in the UK is very similar to what's happening in Australia. The ideology is connected, so it makes sense anyway.
But still, very telling, in a story about child abuse, your focus is on an irrelevant typo.
[–]febreeze1 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
See that's the generalization I don't like. 1st the dude gets the country wrong then proceeds to back up his misinformatio with sayin "well their basically the same cause they speak the same language" that's the only reason I commented. You guys are just as dramatic as feminists and you don't even realize it lol
[–]Mallago 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So, STILL all you can focus on, huh? A typo? You can't or won't comment on the story? What do you think about how this mother still has custody? Do you think that puts the child at risk? Why do you think she was given custody after doing that? Will you have the courage to address those questions?
It's a terrible example of how the system failed here. There, that's all I can say or do, it's a lot better than making some broad generalization about a whole country. Happy lol?
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You could say the same about any ideology, including men’s rights, doesn’t mean the country of origin isn’t important.
[–]redleader 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
😂
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminists in Australia have said that women should not go to jail. Some cunt from Deakin University included, if i remember correctly.
[–]SiTeorbzey 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Are you shocked that the only country to ban the the red pill movie about MRA's would do this
[–]DingusCombaticus1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I actually haven't watched the movie but I kind of assumed I could go with out watching it because I've watched many interviews with the director ( Cassie Jay?). Should I still watch it is what I'm trying to ask here.
[–]SiTeorbzey 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The interviews would be better she had 100 hours worth of forage and it goes further in depth
[–]orcscorper 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You probably won't learn anything new, but it's worth watching. It's more worth watching with people who don't know anything about the MRM.
[–]jkaan 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My ex took my children by telling the court i may have called her a bitch whilst she stood in my driveway abusing me. She has since commited purgery (i was given 20 minutes to prove she was lying). I have since gathered the evidence and been told it is not relevant. 4 months of this so far and she has required zero proof and i am still in queue to gain my parental access back as i was previously the childrens main carer (90% custody) so yes i would say the Australian system is severly broken.
[–]HiddenShorts 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
WTF did I just read? Why would we shut women's prisons? If a woman does something illegal they go to prison, same as a man.
[–]lady_lowercase 28 points29 points30 points 6 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link
this is not at all what feminists want. in these cases (and in many), the punishment for men has been too severe, but for women, it hasn't been enough. the courts need to find a way to dole out justice in a fashion unbiased by the defendant's gender. this is what feminists actually want, but folks only hear what the extremists of the bunch call for as their voices are the loudest.
[–]Daemonicus 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not about what all Feminists want. There are too many different sects to flat out say what they all want. It's about what's being pushed by the ones that get shit done.
The Feminists that promote/support/enact these biased policies are the ones that this sub mostly talks about. These are the ones with political/media influence.
There may be some good Feminists out there that want true equality, but they don't speak up, and they don't have any influence over the media, or politics.
Everyone claims that "the extremists" are the ones doing the bad things, and holding the bad views... And you use this term to discredit people's criticisms of the ideology. You need to face the fact that the extremists are the ones with the influence, and power to enact these stupid laws/regulations.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Does that make MRAs male supremacists?
[–]memeirlguy1212 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
In theory, yes. In practice, they're not as influential as feminists and are basically only catching up.
I don't consider myself to be a feminist or masculinist. I'm against both directions of sexism. Only reason I'm not on /r/feminism is because that's a literal echo chamber and they don't want anyone to say anything that isn't feminism-approved. Otherwise, I'd argue for equality in both subs.
[–]sneakpeekbot 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Feminism using the top posts of the year!
#1: Some words from Maisie Williams | 993 comments #2: This sadly happens all to often. | 391 comments #3: Trump Inauguration (top) vs. Women's March (bottom) | 172 comments
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[–]Myranuse 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Checks out
[–]Draaly-Throwaway 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Have you read through this sub? Honestly, I would say MRA has about the same split of people that want equality vs people that think one sex is just better as feminism does. The problem is, MRAs is immediately labeled as “men are better” people and feminists are not. Honestly, they are both cases of the extremes of any group being pieces of shit IMO
[–]FeierInMeinHose 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link
Does it matter what the many believe if they let the few speak for them?
[–]SuperiorExcess 22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Mate, by that logic are all white men Nazis. That's retarded reasoning.
[–]casmuff 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Subscribing to an ideology is a choice, your race and gender is out of your control.
If you can't see the difference, then there's no hope for you.
[–]FeierInMeinHose 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Not really, that's a grouping by race while this is a grouping by ideology.
You can hold as many beliefs as you want, but if you let others speak for you then it doesn't matter what goes on in your head because you're giving the task of externalizing those thoughts to someone else who espouses different beliefs. By continuing to use the label and only holding the beliefs in your head while activists and advocates under the same label exert power in ways you don't agree with you are essentially saying that your own beliefs are the same as the activists and advocates, and that what you say your own beliefs are is only lip service.
[+]SuperiorExcess -10 points-9 points-8 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Uhm Sweetie, yes it is. You're using the same flawed SJW logic and got called out on it.
[–]bugme143 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So painfully obvious the SJW brigade is here.
[–]_Eggs_ 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Uhm, sweetie, I'm going to talk in a condescending way to pretend that I'm right and you're wrong. Take your freeze peaches elsewhere. Buh bye 👏👏"
[–]SuperiorExcess -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
You weenies don't know sarcasm when it hits you in the face like a brick, you dumb faggot.
[–]FeierInMeinHose 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
God, condescension and zero explanation for why you think I'm wrong, you sure your SJW meter isn't on the fritz?
[–]MisterDamage 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Argument by assertion? How very convincing. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender or skin color. You voluntarily associate yourselves with a movement that relentlessly advocates for exactly the outcome found in this story. If you cannot see the difference between that and being white and male, theres no helping you sweet cheeks
[–]SuperiorExcess 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nazism is also a ideology. You don't happen to be an alt righter? Because that would be totally embarrassing, for you.
[–]MisterDamage 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You've gone from argument by assertion to formal fallacies. You're not getting any more convincing as you go.
[–]SuperiorExcess 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You saw that fallacies screenshot that's pinned on top of /pol/ too? Nice, hope it wins you a lot of internet arguments.
[–]Celda 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Most white men are not Nazis.
But all feminists are feminists.
Your argument is quite stupid.
All posts are not garbage
But all your posts are garbage
[–]Celda 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You didn't even address my argument. You are clearly dishonest as well as stupid.
[–]lady_lowercase 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
let? there are plenty of moderate voices speaking. my previous comment was about what feminism actually means; if you want to label it based on your choice to only listen to the extremists within the feminist movement, by all means, go for it.
[–]casmuff 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
plenty of moderate voices speaking
So plentiful that you haven't named a single one. Yet you've mentioned how plentiful they are at least twice in this thread.
[–]Hirudin 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When the extremists aren't the ones in charge then the others will matter. Until then, these feminists, and their actions, do define the movement.
[–]FeierInMeinHose -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Who is it that's actually doing anything, other than just writing things on the internet? It's these crazy, intersectional types, not your moderate "feminist" that complacently adds power to the crazies by inflating the numbers they can claim.
[–]lady_lowercase 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
there are plenty of moderate voices that speak up, but you may not see them as feminists because you have labeled only those with the extreme views to be feminists. realistically, anyone advocating for equality regardless of gender is a feminist.
there are plenty of moderate voices that speak up
Name two. This is at least the third time you have made that claim. Back it up. Where are these "moderate voices"? How much influence do they have on society?
[–]himynameis2442 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh like hell they are. That's not what feminism has ever ment. If you said that they're advocating for woman's equality then yes technically they would be feminists but if they were advocating for blanket equality then they would be egalitarian. For the love of god stop equating feminism with equality. They're not synonymous. Also modern feminism isn't even about equality for women. You have to look at the actions of the majority ( not the minority you're desperately trying to say they are) and see what they're doing to so iety. It's time to let that label die.
[–]FeierInMeinHose 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, I'm pretty sure it's just because we hit /r/all, where there's a heavy bias in favor of feminism and criticizing it is sacrilege.
[–]imnotquitedeadyet -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What feminists do you think advocate for women getting off easy for assaulting children? You live in a fantasy land
[–]FeierInMeinHose 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How about the notion that women shouldn't go to prison at all?
[–]redthrow1125 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's one, she's pretty obscure but you may have heard of her, she goes by the name "Hillary Clinton"
[–]mintsponge 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Holy shit. I thought the Guardian was a decent newspaper, what the fuck?
[–]santobal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The Guardian tries hard to have at least one inane feminist writing for them on a consistent basis. I'm not sure whether they do so because the paper is seriously committed to feminism or to drive up traffic by selecting a feminist writer who isn't very bright and will get the pot boiling. I suspect the latter having read many outraged comments by readers male and female.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Australian court system has to be under influence of a very malicious and toxic force of some kind.
Toxic masculinity maybe? /s
[–]ISpeakFrankly 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What a demon
[+]Sekolah -12 points-11 points-10 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Karma is real, I've seen it happen. I have faith that piece of shit will get hers in time.
[–]orphancrippla 39 points40 points41 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, as reassuring as some mystical karma bullshit is, I'd rather have her doing hard time in prison instead.
[–]Critonurmom 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Seriously. Fuck that bitch. The picture of that baby broke my heart.
[–]Sekolah 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh me too, and she should never see her kid again, ever.
Bad things happen to good and bad people alike for no reason. Circumstantial evidence is garbage and karma isn't real
[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Plenty of shit people live great lives because money.
[–]johnfanboy 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Fuck this bitch!!
[–]anticommon 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A family friend of ours took his wife's kids to daycare. Now mind you this is one of the most generous loving people I've ever known who will bend over backwards to help anyone that needs it.
The lady at the daycare gave his kids shaken baby syndrome. He came home and the kids weren't responding/acting right so he took them immediately to the hospital. Tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, months without any of his kids, and with no evidence against him whatsoever he eventually got his kids back.
Fuck people that abuse kids, and especially fuck people that abuse others kids and end up getting them in serious trouble when all they want is the best for their children. Seriously sickening.
[–][deleted] 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]mensmod[M] 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
Edit: There is a zero tolerance policy for threatening violence. If you don't like that, find a different website to participate in. Reddit is cracking down on threats of violence.
[–]YadaYadaYada2 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
SJW & feminist trolls at it again.
Truth disrupts their narrative that women are heroic victims.
There's three more near the bottom.
[–]santobal 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Clearly they are indeed here. I almost find it amusing how they try to present themselves as moderate and reasonable people in hopes of sabotaging legitimate MR concerns. They must think we're quite stupid and unable to see their true colors despite their attempts at camouflage. I never troll their subs. I have enough unwanted contacted with them as it is.
[–]DmitriyTokar 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ban in 3... 2... 1...
I don’t even know what the comment was
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For the love of all things holy- DO NOT STICK YOUR DICK IN CRAZY.
[–]Rcm003 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So based on her text, she seems to have lost custody, right? Still not enough..
[–]YourFriendlySidekick 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tears run down my cheeks now while lying next to my little daughter. Just look into these sad eyes. I just want to take her and give her the love she needs. This is so unfair. The poor father.
[–]TheAfterman89 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So much anger reading this. Evil and no signs of remorse. I hope the kid is ok.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't understand how this post is being downvoted. Like... Do they not care about an 8 month old girl now a days? Wtf happened in the last 20 years for this shit to start happening?
[–]alrightknight 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not sure why you think this sort of stuff didn't happend 20years ago.. I would wager it used to be worst.
[–]SatanInMySubway 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I've been fighting well over a year for the right to see my son. I live in Australia. If this monster can get away with this then what hope do i have?
You could get a sex change?
[–]chubbyunicorn69 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m sorry that you are having to do go through that. I probably don’t need to tell you this but, just keep fighting. You may not see results but there will be a time where your hard fought battle will pay off. Maybe when they’re finally on you own but you can present them with this information of what you had to go through and hopefully you will be rectified. I wish you a great new year and I hope you and your son spend many good times together. Don’t give up.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here's a petition to have this piece of scum re-tried...
[–]KeathleyWR 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
SHE PLEAD GUILTY AND ONLY GOT A FINE!? I don't care who does something like that they deserve jail time. Let me beat one of my kids like that and I'm going to prison.
[–]Quintrell 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Meanwhile in London this poor sap gets prosecuted for telling friends and family about his wife's affair... The world's gone upside down.
[–]StoneHolder28 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is terrible, but I have the obviously unpopular opinion that the ruling isn't nearly as light as it seems. I'm always suspicious when someone only posts an image of an article, especially when it's Daily Mail.
A fantastic summary of the case and ruling can be found in this post.
TL:DR, the woman has a history of drug and alcohol abuse, a history of self-harm, has been diagnosed with mental health disorders, and has never before shown to be abusive to others. She does not have custody over either of her children. She will be under a tight parole and will receive her full sentence if she so much as litters.
Instead, she has, per the linked post, "received psychological treatment, participated in (and finished) a drug withdrawal programme, been accepted into a Bachelor of Applied Social Science at a TAFE, and (under court order) can only see her children, under supervision, for six two-hour visits (after which further potential visits will be the subject of another court assessment)." </tldr>
Again, I don't expect this to be a popular comment, but I for one am excited to see a sentencing that focusses more on rehabilitation and actual behavioral correction rather than flat out severest possible punishment. I would hope, and do think, that if the father had her history and were in her position, he'd receive the same (medical and psychological) treatment.
But, yes, her texts suggests she may be a cunt.
[–]Ted8367 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would hope, and do think, that if the father had her history and were in her position, he'd receive the same (medical and psychological) treatment.
Really?
[–]StoneHolder28 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
A history of mental health with one instance of abuse at a stressful point in raising a child, followed by clear attempts at improving health and behavior, in a more progressive justice system than America's. Yes, I do think it's likely he also would have been fined, given a conditional suspended sentence, and be unable to so much as see any of his children more than twice without further judicial approval. I could be wrong, it's only my expectation.
Edit: Alternatively, it's also the same country that let a child murderer avoid jail time. So there's your case of a male, guilty of a far worse crime, "avoiding" jail. Though he did serve half of his four year sentence.
[–]wiseprogressivethink 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Monstrous bitch.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Western Civilization is doomed.
[–]Rorodagher 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What a fucking cunt!
[–]_vend7u4 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Sign the petition to get her a retrial. Upvote so that people see: 300,000 are needed and so far 220,000 have been made.
This monster needs to be brought to justice!
Does Australia have no double jeopardy law?
[–]Doogle89 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tell me again about male privilege...?
[–]Rosephine 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ve decided to start making music again with a more honest message about my life; men’s rights will be a hot topic and humans like this mother will be identified. Fuck that shit
[–]HL4ND3R 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The apologists in the comments absolutely dumbfound me.
[–]fluidlogic3 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There will be consequences maybe not now but in time.
[–]FallingTower 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fuck that bitch
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is it too late to ask Santa for a bad case of breast cancer?
[–]herefortheparty01 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I became so enraged at this I needed to go for a walk. 6 miles later and I see this again. I feel sick. And there is nothing we can do about it
Seriously... fuck the men’s rights vs woman’s rights bullshit..... the look on that baby’s face in that photo is HEARTBREAKING.
I am not married and don’t have children but I would do anything for that little baby.
Just look how hurt and confused she is, poor thing.
Holy hell... what a crazy bitch.
Poor baby....
[–][deleted] 92 points93 points94 points 6 years ago (114 children) | Copy Link
Mother beat a little girl. This is what feminists are fighting for.
[–][deleted] 76 points77 points78 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
That’s a huge generalization
[–]lady_lowercase 30 points31 points32 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
seriously. feminists want equality: this woman deserves punishment, and she deserves the same punishment a man would get if he were to commit such actions.
no real feminist wants a woman to be above the justice system. a real feminist wants the punishments that are given to men to stop being overly-severe. real feminists want justice served in relation to the action, not in relation to the person committing that action.
[–]krawm 22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
The problem is those voices are not heard, your silent MAJORITY needs to step and do something. we are not gonna be heard because of so called patriarchy and privilege we supposedly have, if you want to protect the men of the future(your sons) then now is the time to act.
[–]cp710 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
The problem is we are fighting against the radicals on both the right and the left. We are the majority as you say, but it is hard to create change when we have people on our own "side" fighting us as well.
[–]krawm 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Those people are not on your side, that is the first thing you must recognize, radicals have their own agendas and you don't factor into them other than as a means to an end.
Also being an MRA is a radical act, your saying that men and women should be treated equally under the law. Yet we are labeled as hateful racists and mysoginists, there isba reason we call it the silent majority, because they are scared to speak up and go against the grain...because feminists will eat their own with out a second thought, any woman who does not toe the line is a traitor filled with self loathing and internalized misogyny....and must be brought to heel.
Feminism is a cult of personality.
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
.because feminists will eat their own with out a second thought, any woman who does not toe the line is a traitor filled with self loathing and internalized misogyny....and must be brought to heel.
I have never encountered this type of feminist in the wild. Tumblr yes, and I have argued with them there, but I wasn't ostracized or anything. This is a boogeyman argument.
[–]Ostmeistro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This sub is kind of radical my man, sorry to be the guy that tells you
[–]mmmmph_on_reddit 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You are right, this sub is radical. Being genuinely in favour of gender equality is now a radical position directly opposed to the status quo that is in power in society. If you are against institutional sexism towards men, you are a radical.
[–]Ostmeistro 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Why are you upvoted and I'm downvoted when all you do is reiterate me?
[–]mmmmph_on_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Mine is at +4 and yours is at +5 right now :)
[–]Ostmeistro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, strange. Well thanks anyway, you worded it greatly :)
Ha! No need to be sorry, I already knew.
[–]an_eloquent_enemy0 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
So women have to fight for women and men, too? I would like to see both sexes fight hand-in-hand against all equality issues. I think concerted efforts are always more successful.
You mean women will have to join a battle already in progress if they want a future where there sons dont live in fear of having their lives ruined by false accusations, or wrecked in divorce proceedings, or watch their own children suffer at the hands of a mentally ill woman who will beat her children yet the courts and CPS say a man is unfit to raise a child.
Do not forget that without male allies the feminist movement would of died long ago. The very same white men that modern feminists would call scumm are the same people who enacted the laws and amendments that gave women the right to vote and equal treatment under the law.
So yes, it is time for women to step up and and join the battle men have been waging for decades now, it is time to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
So untill i hear more women take up the MRA banner to ensure their sons and daughters receive equal treatment and opportunity i, and many others like me, will continue to view feminism as the toxic man hating cesspool it has become.
[–]redthrow1125 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
seriously. feminists want equality: this woman deserves punishment, and she deserves the same punishment a man would get if he were to commit such actions. no real feminist wants a woman to be above the justice system. a real feminist wants the punishments that are given to men to stop being overly-severe. real feminists want justice served in relation to the action, not in relation to the person committing that action.
What you just said is completely untrue. The biggest mainstream feminists are not actually pushing for equality at all.
Hillary Clinton, as mainstream as it gets, made it part of her platform to make the justice system easier on women, despite the fact that the vast majority of prisoners are men and the system is already much easier on women than men. She wanted to increase inequality in favor of women.
Mainstream politicians in Britain are seriously discussing not sending women to prison at all: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13666066
You will never see a mainstream feminist pushing for equality in an area where men currently have it worse. Feminists don't push for women to have longer prison sentence, or for women to be 50% of the people killed and maimed in the workplace. Or for 50% of biologists to be men.
There's a lawyer in Canada, Elizabeth Sheehy, who has made a career out of defending women who kill their husbands and lobbying to make it legal for women to kill men in their sleep, as long as they allege abuse from him. (With no evidence, and the man cannot defend himself from the abuse allegations because he is dead.) Note that this only goes one way, she is not trying to make it legal for men to kill abusive wives. She is a mainstream figure who won a high award from the Canadian Bar Association.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-prof-makes-bizarre-plea-to-place-battered-women-above-the-law https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/news/professor-elizabeth-sheehy-wins-cbas-2013-ramon-john-hnatyshyn-award-law
The only useful way to define a movement by its most popular, powerful and influential members, the people who are actually getting things done. You can't call these people "not real feminists".
EDIT: Also, one of the speakers at the Women's March, the biggest feminist event in history, was a woman named Donna Hylton, who spoke about the plight of women in prison. Again, someone who wants the justice system to be easier on women, when it already is compared to men.
Her crime: she was in a group of people who kidnapped a gay man for ransom, raped him with a piece of steel rebar, beat, cut and burned him, crushed his testicles, and killed him. It is known who in the group did what to him exactly, but she was there, helped with the crime and she delivered the ransom note, which means she had the opportunity to leave, contact the police and stop what happened.
Do you think Republicans or MRAs would invite a man who had raped, tortured and killed a woman to speak at their events? Hell no. Feminists will protest if a Republican slaps or gropes a woman. But the organizers of the largest feminist event in history saw fit to invite that woman as a speaker, and half a million feminists listened to her and applauded. That's as far from "equality" as you can possibly get.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/26/womens-march-featured-speaker-who-kidnapped-raped-and-tortured-a-man/ https://spectator.org/the-women-movements-embrace-of-psychopath-donna-hylton/ https://www.snopes.com/2017/01/30/donna-hylton-background/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Hylton
feminists want equality
LOL! That's why they are up in arms over this case, right?
[–]KROMExRainbow 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it's fair to say that some feminists want equality, and some want women to have advantages and control. While his statement was a pretty big generalisation, it's also true; some feminists are fighting for this.
Your whole argument here is that anyone who wants to see the woman in the article let free isn't a "real feminist", which is a textbook example of the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. Just because you don't agree with their point of view, that doesn't mean they aren't a "real feminist".
[–]wellshire 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nope, apparently this woman here is what we're fighting for. All of us.
[+]Kabayev -55 points-54 points-53 points 6 years ago* (85 children) | Copy Link
What this mother did is horribly wrong, but don't misrepresent what they actually stand for
[–]Odz2427 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
They may not stand for it but they sure don’t speak out against it.
And they never hesitate to bring up the inherent violent nature of all men.
[–]orphancrippla 59 points60 points61 points 6 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link
You're right. Feminists actually stand for removing any responsibility or possiblity of consequence from women, and this is a perfect example. So what if a baby gets beat or an infant gets tossed out a window? Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet and you can always just lay more.
[+]twiztedterry -26 points-25 points-24 points 6 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link
Feminists actually stand for removing any responsibility or possiblity of consequence from women
There's a large difference between a Feminist and the extremists over on r/twoxchromosomes
Most "Feminists" I've met only want to be treated the SAME as men, not to be given special treatment.
[–]bad_news_everybody 28 points29 points30 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
TXC is extremist? They seem pretty mainstream to me.
[+]twiztedterry -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Some of them are, not as a general rule - but many people have been banned from the sub for expressing differing opinions regarding many different topics, most recently in regards to the way men should be treated after a rape accusation.
[–]bad_news_everybody 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That strikes me as a mainstream opinion.
I should be clear that I think the mainstream itself is off the rails. Extremist just sounds like only a few.
[–]Odz2427 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I got banned over there when I hadn’t made a comment in months simply because I participate in r/mensrights
[–][deleted] 34 points35 points36 points 6 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link
This is what most feminists claim they want, but there are plenty of mainstream feminists who will defend differential treatment between men and women when said differential treatment is in women’s favor. They simply argue that the differential treatment is justified for one reason or another. They don’t see it as a violation of equality; it’s typically not malicious, but it is a product of some pretty severe bias on their parts.
Some examples:
Feminists are campaigning for more prison alternatives for women exclusively, and justify it using arguments that claim women “take different paths to prison,” are typically in for less violent offenses, and leave behind children more frequently.
Feminists argue against LPS laws, and ironically justify it by saying men already have control over their reproduction using the same arguments anti-abortionists use: they can always abstain from having sex.
Feminists have argued against laws that reform alimony and aim to correct biases in family courts against fathers, typically claiming that alimony reforms would harm elderly women (even when said laws are not retroactive and contain exceptions for women born before a specific date) and that there is no bias in family courts against fathers (which is obvious to most people who have worked in the family court system, but hard to prove using statistics alone).
Feminists argue against efforts to get women included in the military draft on the argument that there should simply be no draft (although they don’t fight to end the SS registry).
Feminists argue against programs to help boys do better in education, and justify it by saying women’s better performance in education doesn’t translate to higher-paying jobs after schooling is complete.
You need to spend some more time on this sub and learn more about why MRAs are so anti-feminist. It’s because—despite most feminists saying they want equal treatment for everyone—their activism clearly demonstrates otherwise.
[–]orphancrippla 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
That's bull shit and you know it. Find me a feminist that wants women to have to sign up for the draft, that wants alimony and child support removed, that wants women working the hardest and dangerous jobs alongside men, who thinks women don't deserve special scholarships and allowances under the law, and I'll believe you. But those people don't exist, and the few former feminists that tried were ran out of the movement. "Good" feminists like you just provide a smokescreen for the rest of them, and are just as culpable for their worst excesses.
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There are many feminists that think those things. Maybe they’re just not all blogging about it on tumblr.
[–]orphancrippla 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Nor are they bringing it up at the marches, or pushing it with NOW (the largest feminist organization), or writing legislation for it, or doing anything to push the equality they supposedly so staunchly support. But hey, they hold an opinion that they do nothing to push and never voice, so clearly I shouldn't be upset with feminism at all! It's good we have all these good feminists out there reminding me that I can't criticize a movement as a whole because of a few dozen people who never voice their opinions are actually egalitarians.
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You’re wrong about the draft. It is simply a divided subject among feminists, much like many subjects among other ideologies. https://www.ncronline.org/news/politics/feminists-weigh-draft-registration-women
I’m on mobile at the moment but I can provide more links if you want. It wasn’t women who made the selective service and it wasn’t feminists who upheld the law when it went to the Supreme Court in the 80s.
[–]orphancrippla 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, when I see a #metoo for signing up for the draft, I'll take you seriously. Until then, this is just more "nuh uh, we tooootally care about getting the bad parts of equality too!" obfuscation that is incredibly poor at convincing me.
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
There was a proposed bill in Congress about it, opposed by some prominent conservatives, supported by a California feminist (and participant of the #metoo movement) and you’re saying that’s not enough and social media activism would be better? The same social media activism from Social Justice Warriors that is so widely derided?
Edit: "or writing legislation for it" was one of your original complaints. They have but now you think a twitter hashtag would be better.
"Find me a feminist that wants women to have to sign up for the draft" done and you moved the goalposts.
[–]Odz2427 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe this is true but the ones with a public voice tend not to fit in this category. Where are all the good feminists to disavow the blatant misandry at the head of their movement?
Awalt
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Ha, if you think TwoXChromosomes is "extremist" then life has some nasty surprises in store.
TwoX is not a feminist sub, it is for general women's stuff. I hung out there for a while years ago. Men are welcome so long as you understand you are a guest and know how to behave around women.
The feminists there are very much mainstream, and it is not a place for discussing feminist theory.
I agree feminists generally want the same opportunities as men. But since life is complicated and men and women are different, being given "the same" opportunities is not always as simple as treating them identically. And like everybody, feminists tend to be blind to their own privilege and if it is pointed out, they see it as a natural right.
[+]Kabayev -21 points-20 points-19 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
We must have different definitions of feminist.
[–]eDgEIN708 30 points31 points32 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. You're using the dictionary definition, the one women should actually try to live up to, and he's using the real-world definition based on the people who call his example "feminism" shouting so loudly that this is what feminism is, while no one from the dictionary definition school of feminism challenges them on it.
[–]cp710 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I challenge them on it. The problem is I have only met the extreme third-wave feminist on the internet and never in real life. The feminists I know in real life fit the dictionary definition or don't even believe they're feminists because some people have misappropriated the word. And I live right next to a college town, and work with many college-aged women, so if I was going to encounter the mythical feminazi in the wild I think it would have happened by now.
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They exist. Mostly it is a bit of youthful exuberance, cured when they fall in love properly and especially when they raise a family. It can persist into adulthood but it is far less common than the more sane types.
[–]orphancrippla 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The dictionary definition of feminism doesn't match the real world actions of feminists. From the beginning when there was the push for women's suffrage, the wanted the right to vote (which many men didn't have) but refused the responsibility of the draft. From the outset feminism has had absolutely nothing to do with equality. I'm an egalitarian, someone for REAL equality, but that includes the shitty parts too, and I guarantee you'd oppose having the shitty parts of being a man foisted upon you at gun point.
[–]scyth3s 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I could start a political party called the Blacks Liberation Movement that pushes Nazi policies...
Names can be misleading.
[–]next_DanDy 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
WHAT
[–]AreYouDeaf 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Kabayev -16 points-15 points-14 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Feminists are not fighting for the right to abuse their kids.
[–]Odz2427 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Who is “they”?
C’mon
[–]Kabayev 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminists. The difference between our claims is that yours was all encompassing
[–]Am_Neon[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Not sure why you are getting down voted. This place is turning in to r/incels
How odd that both of you are downvoted....
I didn't even know what sub this was until I noticed you two downvoted.
[+]LabTech41 -9 points-8 points-7 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
The Joker was right about one thing: for most people, they're only as good as the world allows them to be; free of consequence, you come to find out just how necessary the law is. Women in general, and Feminists in particular, are exemplars of this; they eat, sleep, and work in a world that's largely built and supported by men, and it's men who determine how far women get. Right now, we exist in a world where enough men in the right places are weak, weak enough to let women roam free enough to reveal their true nature: children; women are children, and left to their own devices children can be VERY cruel.
Not saying men are saints or ubermensch, but saying we win by default is about as much praise as I'll give to my sex. Feminists are basically fighting for a world in which what little responsibilities and standards that the men's world put on them are removed, which is like a child asking never to have to grow up; that DOESN'T end well.
[–]cp710 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Women are people. Men are people. You place way too much value on the differences between the sexes and too little on the similarities. You fail to realize that everyday women working hard for themselves and their partners and their children aren’t being showcased on the internet because the mundane and ordinary lives of millions are rarely focused on. It is childish indeed to take negative stories and believe there are no positives to counteract them.
[–]LabTech41 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
The differences matter, unless you don't think humans are a sexually dimorphic species. That difference isn't just a theoretical one, it plays out in every interaction of every day, and to fail to recognize it leads to the very cognitive dissonance we in the MRA umbrella have to deal with every day.
Yes, obviously most people escape notice because they keep their heads down and just maintain a normal life with the minimal amount of drama possible, BUT, there are trends that can be broken down by characteristics such as gender, and what I said is based on that. There's nothing I've said that's factually wrong or even controversial; it's all fairly self-evident if you're not looking through a lens of the modern age that's defined by post-modernism and the SJW/Feminist agenda. Yes, women can and often do the right thing and work hard, same as men; and women can be scumbags, same as men. The difference is that women are allowed to get a pass so often for the bad side of their nature that it leads to pathologies like this; women need consequences to keep them in line just like men do, my point is that you remove those consequences at society's peril. Feminists exacerbate the problem, because in their misguided struggle for 'equality', all they do is remove all the safeguards and disable all the security measures, and thus this story is the result.
Would this woman have beaten her own child so shamelessly if she didn't KNOW (not suspect, not wish) that the courts would favor her solely on the basis of her gender? Maybe, but do what the title of the piece asks you and flip the script: would a MAN charged with this crime NOT be in prison right now? Would he even still be alive, given how child abusers fare in prison? The disparity in treatment is the whole point, and it's based on the fundamental difference I talked about. Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on women, I'm explaining basic reality; it's the reality that's shitty.
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
The difference is that women are allowed to get a pass so often for the bad side of their nature that it leads to pathologies like this
Same as men You are acting like miscarriages of justice only ever favor one gender.
Would this woman have beaten her own child so shamelessly if she didn't KNOW (not suspect, not wish) that the courts would favor her solely on the basis of her gender?
She's a piece of work for sure, but where is the proof that she knew?
[–]LabTech41 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I get that AS a woman, you want to give women the benefit of the doubt, but I'm asking you to be objective here. You CANNOT state that in certain circumstances, like child disposition in custody battles, women DON'T have a clear advantage. Women are OVERWHELMINGLY granted custody during divorce proceedings, and if the parents were never legally married, the woman has sole custody by DEFAULT. You don't have to be a legal mastermind to know when specific matters like this are heavily swayed in your favor.
I'm not talking about the anecdotal cases where men got off because of a technicality, I'm talking about the default systemic favoritism that's shown to women. Women get shorter sentences for the same crimes, women are incarcerated at lesser rates, and given the whole #metoo debacle, women are clearly believed so readily that a man's entire life can be undone by an allegation that has yet to bear the scrutiny of an investigation or the challenge of a court case.
These aren't arcane facts that require deep study to learn, they're basically common knowledge, THAT'S how she knew. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you're a good and decent human being who just happens to be female, but only one of us is assuming that the playing field is even.
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You CANNOT state that in certain circumstances, like child disposition in custody battles, women DON'T have a clear advantage.
I cannot state that because I actually agree with you on that topic. You're placing a lot of generalizations on your idea of my thoughts and feelings as a woman (which I never actually said or implied btw) and using a lot of opinions passing as fact in general.
You don't have to be a legal mastermind to know when specific matters like this are heavily swayed in your favor.
MY favor? Might as well say they are heavily swayed in favor of Polish Americans or Catholics or cheese lovers for all that you know about me, but that's the problem isn't it? You are making a lot of assumptions based on one thing. Because you've interacted with me you're willing to give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm "one of the good ones" based on nothing, while women in general are all getting off scot free taking advantage of every loophole in existence according to you. Most women are like most men, keeping their heads down and going about their business, you just don't hear about them.
given the whole #metoo debacle, women are clearly believed so readily that a man's entire life can be undone by an allegation that has yet to bear the scrutiny of an investigation or the challenge of a court case.
And yet it took many more women to bring down Weinstein than it took men to bring down Spacey.
As for prison sentences, there are many feminists that believe the entire for-profit prison system needs an overhaul, for men and for women. I am not going to defend the women's sentencing when I believe both should be lesser.
None of this is proving your original point which I believe was:
weak enough to let women roam free enough to reveal their true nature: children; women are children, and left to their own devices children can be VERY cruel.
Has the women's crime rate gone up since this women favored sentencing has been implemented? Who advocated for these lesser sentences? Who is doing the sentencing? Because there are a lot of conservatives who would agree with you that women should be coddled and given less harsh punishment because they're "childlike" and don't know any better, just like it was Ted Cruz and his ilk that opposed putting women in the selective service. Show me some data not just your echo chamber "knowledge."
[–]LabTech41 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
You didn't say it here, but you mentioned in your post history that you wear a bra; now maybe you're a fat guy who's trying to keep up with fashion, but the safer probability is that you're of the female persuasion.
It's also telling of your nature that you assume my presumption of your basic decency is somehow a negative thing; it's usually safe enough to assume most people are good and decent until their behavior proves otherwise; but if you want me to think less of you, you have every opportunity to make that happen. It's also not denying female goodness and decency when I state that the system treats them better, because most wouldn't abuse that favoritism in most cases, but the bad ones clearly do. Just because I state an obvious disparity between the genders doesn't mean I have antipathy for them, or that I find no fault in my own gender. Thing is, you're failing to acknowledge the basic realities of the world we live in, which is why you can make the clearly farcical statement that Poles, Catholics, or cheese lovers get such favoritism when they don't. Trust me, if those demographics were shown to have such unfair advantages, you'd find my comment history mentioning such. This is a false equivalency, trying to cast a real disparity into doubt by mentioning obviously absurd alternatives.
Weinstein was the first, and the most powerful, of the accused; so it would take more effort to dislodge him, especially when you consider there was no previous accusations to make it a simple affair for him to go down. But, once an avalanche gets started, every subsequent action gets easier. Thing is, what about the male bodyguard that accused Mariah Carey of sexual harassment? He got laughed out of the headlines because people assume men can't be the victims of female-initiated sexual assault. Terry Crews only got believed because his abuser was male. You're smart to try and downplay and deflect on the prison issue, because that's a topic that has clear and documented stats on it that a feminist angle can't support. Kudos, but just acknowledge that I saw what you did and didn't buy it for a second.
Lastly, I don't think you've actually gone into the reasons why these laws get put in place. Women make up the MAJORITY of voters. Not staggeringly so, but enough that any politician who doesn't court the female vote doesn't stand to see a long political career, voting statistics bear this out. Is some of this good ol' boy tradcon garbage? Sure, anything's possible, but standard political practice is to break off concessions to keep the constituency happy. Have female crime rates gone up? I'll let this government bureau link do the talking for me.
https://www.csosa.gov/newsmedia/factsheets/statistics-on-women-offenders-2016.pdf
Oh, and it's interesting that you'd mention that Cruz opposed putting women in selective service, because First Wave Feminists intentionally sabotaged their own voting rights movement because the early versions of the bill that would've granted it ALSO meant that women were subject to the draft; and given the choice between freedom/risk of death and 'servitude'/safe path, they chose the safe path, whilst also carrying out perhaps one of the most deplorable acts of cowardice and faux-righteousness that Feminists have ever conducted. Do me a favor: look up the 'White Feather' movement, especially what happened during WW1, then tell me that women haven't agitated for and been given preferential treatment. It wasn't until suffrage came without the compulsion of the draft that women finally embraced it and it became the law of the land.
When I say women are children, I don't use that word because I think they're naïve or don't understand how the world works, I use that word because when given the chance, they'll more often than men avoid responsibility for their actions. I'm not trying to disrespect you or women, though there's little from Feminists these days to call respectable; I'm just stating simple facts that don't fit into a PC narrative. It's entirely up to you whether you hold fast to a comfortable fable that we're even-steven down the line, or accept the disparity that comes from having sexually dimorphic genders, including mental characteristics.
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I already know about the white feathers, thanks.
Thanks for letting me know. I do not believe in using identity in debate, something I think most MRAs would agree on so I'll delete that comment. Ideas should stand on their own.
Women make up the MAJORITY of voters. Not staggeringly so, but enough that any politician who doesn't court the female vote doesn't stand to see a long political career, voting statistics bear this out. Is some of this good ol' boy tradcon garbage?
Ah, here's the source of our dispute. I definitely think the majority of these "benefits" to women is good ole boy garbage whereas I believe your stance is that it's coming from feminists and their "feminazi" extremists. Here's a "family values" argument against women registering for the draft for example. So what am I, an egalitarian feminist to do? I acknowledge that special class status for women is wrong but special treatment due to a perceived innocence is wrong too. Radfems would have this child abuser not face consequences because she's a woman and traditional values people would say the same but with a completely different meaning.
You're smart to try and downplay and deflect on the prison issue, because that's a topic that has clear and documented stats on it that a feminist angle can't support.
I'm not downplaying anything. I think our whole prison system and sentencing laws need to be reformed. Again, who is doing the sentencing? Who is giving the women special treatment? Are the sentences less or more strict in more conservative cultures? Can you prove that this is part of the feminist agenda or is it older judges maybe being a little more lenient on the "childlike" women?
I am for equal treatment of men and women full stop. The problem is there are people on both sides of the political spectrum trying to prevent that and there are societal expectations on both genders that are wrong.
Feminists are basically fighting for a world in which what little responsibilities and standards that the men's world put on them are removed, which is like a child asking never to have to grow up; that DOESN'T end well.
You have yet to prove that it is feminists that fight for this type of world. I love responsibility and standards. I want to stand on my own merits. Not all women do, but neither do all men.
They favor women disproportionately. Hence the article and hundreds of other examples you can find in this sub.
Of course she knew. She’s alive and has cognitive brain function.
Her bragging about getting away with it only furthers the point.
[+]yoshi314 -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
only if the child is male, i guess.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's a baby girl.
[–]sennhauser 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This is what modern day feminism gets you.
[–]StillMind2010 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Or how a male dominated legal system treats attractive women...
The problem has more than one cause, unfortunately.
[–]casmuff 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Except that the route cause of both these phenomena is gynocentrism.
[–]Blacky372 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's amazing how you managed to portray this like it is men's fault in some way.
I guess we can blame this tragedy on the patriarchy as well. /s
[–]StillMind2010 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, I'd say lesbian dominated legal system if that were true, but it's not. 😂
our society is fucked and I'm worried for humanity as a whole.
[–]Proteus_Marius 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well clearly, she's sick or not mentally capable of restraining herself from causing physical harm to her child. Normally, the child should not be returned to her, in respect to the typical escalation patterns from such behaviors.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes it makes me think we don't have the full story. Was she able to convince the judge that it was an accident?
[–]TheKomuso 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm sure the feminists won't ignore this story.
[–]MotoGpMike 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
THIS JUDGE NEED TO BE FIRED
[–]BatmanHimself 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
deleted What is this?
[–]JohnnySkidmarx 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How can someone do that to a baby?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Hmmm..
I really feel like we aren't getting the full story here...
Why would the judge let her off much less give her custody?
[–]Ted8367 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here's the reasoning of the judge:
COURT REMARKS
IN THE DISTRICT COURT
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION ADELAIDE WEDNESDAY, 30 AUGUST 2017 AT 9.20 A.M. BEFORE HIS HONOUR JUDGE COSTELLO NO.DCCRM-17-593 R V LORIEN NORMAN HIS HONOUR IN SENTENCING SAID: Lorien Norman, you pleaded guilty to one count of aggravated causing harm with intent to cause harm, the maximum penalty for which is 13 years imprisonment. The offence is aggravated because it was committed against your own child.
In terms of your offending I was told that at about 4 a.m. on 1 October 2016 you rang 000 threatening to throw your eight month old daughter off the balcony of your unit. Police attended your unit later that morning and observed bruising to your daughter's face. As a result they took both of you to hospital.
When spoken to by police you initially lied to them saying that your daughter had sustained a fall at play gym a day or so earlier.
She was subsequently treated by a paediatrician who concluded that she had been the victim of a physical assault during which she had sustained at least eight separate blows to her face and body causing bruising to her forehead, both cheeks and ears, her neck and arm. The doctor also formed the view that some of the bruising correlated in size and shape to a black slotted spoon seized from your kitchen and her other bruising was likely to have been caused by a hit or smack by a hand.
Photographs submitted by the DPP depict the nature and extent of the bruising. Other photographs depicting bruising to her neck and a laceration to her finger would suggest that your daughter was also at least being roughly handled by you in and around the time of the injuries were inflicted which are the subject of the charge. In the DPP's submission the injuries the subject of the charge were caused by reason of a sustained and deliberate assault by you upon your daughter which involved multiple blows, at least one of which was with a slotted spoon to your daughter's face and that this indicated more than a momentary loss of control on your part. Whilst I agree that this number of blows would indicate something more than a momentary loss of control, it is not possible, as the DPP properly conceded, to say over precisely what period of time the blows were delivered apart that is from an acknowledgement that they probably all occurred at about the same time. Despite the uncertainty surrounding the assaults this much at least can be accepted, namely that at around the time of your offending you were addicted to alcohol and clearly in a distressed condition. So much is apparent from the declaration of Mr O'Brien and your calls to both him and 000 stating that you were going to throw your daughter off the balcony.
Consistently with the medical evidence I propose to sentence you upon the basis that at or around the time of your call you lost control and assaulted your daughter over a relatively brief period of time in the course of what potentially was a single episode of violence. Whilst any assault of a child, particularly one of such a tender age and vulnerability, by a parent stands as a gross breach of trust, your offending is nevertheless far from the most serious of offending of this type in terms of the degree of force involved and the duration of the offending. In this respect I particularly note the opinion of the treating paediatrician to the effect that there was no evidence of bony or intracranial injury and that your daughter's physical injuries were likely to completely resolve. In terms of your personal circumstances, you are 26 years of age. You are the mother of two daughters, one of whom is the victim, by a man with whom you had a previous relationship which has now ended. He now has custody of both of your children. You were educated to year 11 before leaving school at the age of 17. Your employment since leaving school has been affected to a degree by the birth and raising of your two daughters.
You have otherwise been variously employed as a waitress, salesperson and bank teller with the teller work lasting for some four years. In terms of further employment you maintain a long term desire to follow in your father's footsteps and work in real estate. In terms of your childhood, your parents separated when you were three years old. Thereafter you alternated living with both your parents until the age of 16 when you moved into independent rental accommodation.
You currently maintain a close relationship with your father, although when you were growing up he was a strict disciplinarian who would at times physically be abusive to you. Your mother, sadly, suffers from alcohol addiction and you maintain only sporadic contact with her.
You had a troubled adolescence with a history of self-mutilating behaviour. You have been diagnosed as having a borderline personality disorder and have twice been admitted to the Adelaide clinic.
You have had a number of significant de facto relationships with men who have been violent towards you and on several occasions you were raped by men with whom you became involved.
You have also had a significant history of drug (particularly cannabis) and alcohol abuse, the latter of which has led you to being hospitalised for alcohol poisoning. Despite your troubled and somewhat dissolute past life there is guarded cause for optimism in that you have taken steps to turn your life around. You have begun having psychological treatment with Mr Richard Balfour, whose report I have read and taken into account. You have successfully completed a marijuana withdrawal program at DASSA. You have organised to see a psychiatrist, Dr Georgini to review and optimise your pharmacotherapy in accordance with a recommendation by Mr Balfour. You have applied for and been accepted as a student in a Bachelor of Applied Social Science course at TAFE College. You are also on the waiting list for further specific drug and alcohol counselling.
In terms of your children, I am told that you have been ordered by a Family Court judge to enrol at the Children's Contact Service, a supervised visitation facility under the auspices of Anglicare. This course involves some six two hours supervised visits with the children after which there will be a report back to the judge who made the order. Your case is next back before the Family Court in late October 2017. These are all positive measures designed to reinforce your apparent desire to get your life back under control and to re-establish contact with your daughters.
Turning now to the question of sentence. You pleaded guilty at a time which entitles you to a discount of up to 30% on any sentence I impose. There are no factors which militate against me allowing you the full 30%. You have only one prior criminal conviction which is not relevant to your current offending. You are clearly remorseful for your actions. The offending to which you have pleaded guilty is very serious. I repeat, that any offence committed on a child, particularly one's own, and one so young, is rightly deprecated by the community and needs to be discouraged. General deterrence is an important factor in such a case. The circumstances of your offending are such that a sentence of imprisonment is warranted. Having said that, as I also said, the nature and duration of the offending here renders it less serious than many others. If it had not been for your plea of guilty I would have imposed a sentence of two years and six months which will be reduced to one year and nine months to reflect the Sentencing Act discount.
I fix a non-parole period of 10 months.
Turning now to the question of suspension. You are still a relatively young woman with a limited criminal history. You are making a genuine and concerted effort to turn your life around and I am impressed by the measures you have undertaken towards rehabilitating yourself both as a person and a parent.
In this respect I bear in mind the remarks of King CJ in Yardley v Betts where King CJ said: 'The protection of the community is also contributed to by the successful rehabilitation of offenders. This aspect of sentencing should never be lost sight of and it assumes particular importance in the case of first offenders and others who have not developed settled criminal habits. If the sentence has an effect of turning an offender towards a criminal way of life the protection of the community is to that extent impaired. If the sentence induces or assists an offender to avoid offending in future the protection of the community is to that extent enhanced'.
In my view, for the reasons articulated, good reasons exists to suspend your sentence. Your sentence will, therefore, be suspended upon you entering into a bond in the sum of $500 to be of good behaviour for a period of two years upon the following conditions: 1. That you be of good behaviour and comply with all of the conditions of this bond; 2. That you be under the supervision of a Community Corrections officer for the term of bond and obey his or her lawful directions, including a direction that you submit to drug and alcohol testing; 3. That you attend and complete any assessment, counselling treatment and therapeutic programs as may be deemed appropriate by the Community Corrections officer assigned to supervise you; 4. That you do not possess a firearm or any part of a firearm during the period of the bond; 5. That you submit yourself to gunshot residue testing required during the period of the bond; 6. That you present yourself at the office of the Department of Community Corrections referred to in the bond within two business days of today.
This seems a bit wild to me.
Good for her for "getting her life together".. but holy shit. She beat the fuck out of a baby and then said she was going to kill him. I don't doubt that she was emotionally distressed a the time - but how can you give the kid back to a parent who threatened this and actually succeeded in assaulting her own kid?
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[–]Zelian820 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hope Evie is okay <3
I worked with a little boy that had hydrocephalus. When he walked he tilted his head to the left because his small frame couldn't hold his head up straight. He was awesome. His parents however were complete fucking assholes. His dad told him to stop being a pussy when the boy complained on neck pain. I had to leave working with kids because of families, but also because I was weak.
[–]gnarlin 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How the fuck did she get away with that? What the fuck was wrong with the judge and/or jury?
[–]Thuban 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's AU. Their justice is based on FEELS now. Laws are arbitrary.
I don’t know much about this story outside of this post but if anyone knows if there is a fund for this baby or some sort of charity please post, or even if someone knows how to get in contact with the father to see if that baby needs anything or we can help in any way.
[–]metaltrite 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
more of a /r/PussyPass thing. And at the moment I wish she was in a country where she'd get a fucking death sentence
[–]quijote3000 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fuck any parents that does that to a child
[–]realopinions-124 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How come all women want eaquality but on the certain bits and pieces they choose? Why are men still expected to do everything but treated just the same as a women who had done nothing?
[–]xX_ArsonAverage_Xx 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is really fucked upped
[–]Christophilies 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That (and I use the term as loosely as possible) mother’s head belongs on a fucking pike.
[–]ImGonnaObamaYou 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How is she gonna get custody when his dad is billionaire and owner of the wwe
[–]Ted8367 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wrong Shane McMahon. This one lives in Adelaide.
[–]kielly32 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why death row exists. Less scum on this planet is a good thing.
[–]WalshGuy420 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm really not a violent guy, but god I would like to smack her with a baseball bat to give her a taste of her own medicine
[–]Splatacus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nuff said https://i.imgur.com/MPvnQPt.jpg
[–]ZonkedZombie 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Dirty fucking trollop! I hope she gets super crippling cancer and all her friends and family disown her! How in the fuck can anybody do that to a baby? If anyone even tried that with my baby I’d be up for murder!
[–]Zelian820 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hope her cancer gets AIDS
[–]Algur 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Disgusting in every way.
[–]helderdude 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Could someone give me the short version of why she walked free
[–]shaboi_mike 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For the sake of the child that mother should be flogged
[–]jake4200 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A guy in my area punched his infant several times. She died, hes going to jail forever. Probably getting similar treatment right now.
[–]Chickenthang47 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This woman is psychotic. I would lock her up.
[–]MaRmARk0 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What a fucking bitch! As a dad this triggers rage inside me. In my country she'd go instantly into prison for at least 3 years.
I find this disgustingly negligent of our society. When SJWs talk about systemic issues, they somehow seem cognitively dissonant to these issues. When they say privilege, I think we need to post more of this.
[–]bioemerl 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It could very well be that the media is blowing the event way out of the water.
I can almost taste them trying to manipulate people's emotions from the stupid articles in the image.
we let these people live in our society.
[–]Noah__Webster 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Surely she won't get custody, right?
[–]kursdragon 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This kind of thing can't actually be real, can it? Somebody please tell me this is fake
[–]funkymoose1233 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I work in law and see this type of stuff all the time. It’s actually very common.
[–]kursdragon 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's... like actually just disgusting
[–]funkymoose123 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
People keep saying we are too harsh on criminals. We keep lowering and lowering sentencing. Most people have no idea how common this stuff is.
[–]Pon_Bear_Swilly 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The lady is trash. Hopefully she hits a patch of black ice and crashes into a tree killing herself and harming no others. Not likely but a man can dream...
[–]sweetb00bs 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Who the hell was the judge? and in what state?
[–]Ted8367 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
CRIMINAL JURISDICTION ADELAIDE (Australia) WEDNESDAY, 30 AUGUST 2017 AT 9.20 A.M. BEFORE HIS HONOUR JUDGE COSTELLO
Full remarks:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7mexn5/flip_the_script_no_consequences_for_her/drubwq0/
[–]IFuckingHateWarmBeer 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I absolutely can't wait for karma to hit this cunt hard.
[–]angelcake 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
First off horrific and she should be in jail and she should never be allowed near children. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. The question I would ask however is what gender was the judge who let her off? It shouldn’t matter but I’m curious. The majority of justices are still male, even in Family Court, and I have a hard time understanding why they let women like this skate.
[–]Ted8367 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
what gender was the judge
Male.
Female judges are actually less likely to give lenient sentences to women.
[–]ThomasTheWarpEngine 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I felt a wave of anger rush through me when seeing the picture. :(
[–]Frostadwildhammer 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Holy duck. No matter how frustrated I get as a parent I would never want to harm my child. It blows my mind how people do this to kids
[–]krawm 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
human scum who needs to have all her children taken from her, i am not gonna advocate violence against her BUT i really do hope someone sometime does to her face with their fists what she did to that baby with a spoon and her hand.
[–]Gyrosplater 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
New life goal: out live and out last this pile of shit.
Hell, I might go out of my way to go down there to Australia and piss on her grave after she dies.
My next move: call OJ. Offer money. Establish alibi
[–]Rexsplinter 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Has anything actually been done since?
Like too see her try this again if she was beaten with a bat too the edge of her life... Human garbage acting like she's so strong surviving social media, what a joke.
[–]gunnerdown15 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think someone would get a kick out of the reply this girl just sent me
Disgusting piece of shit.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So was any action finally taken against her?
[–]LoveFoolosophy 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Did anyone notice the guy's name is Shane McMahon.
Not the one you're thinking of though.
[–]chambertlo 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Only a woman could do this to her own child.
[–]xthebatman 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Kill her. She deserves it.
[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why do brain-owning men get kids with such poor quality women?
[–]UseKnowledge -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We can only hope.
[–]budster16 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I may get banned for saying something like this but someone, please kill her.
[–]Bojangles657 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The death penalty is too good for this woman.
[–]elebrin -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The only thing right about what she said is that social media should have absolutely nothing to do with a judge's verdict.
[–]sennhauser 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The only redeeming thing about this is that her reputation is ruined and every future employer that googles her name will see this.
[–]feraxil 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That girl doesn't work. Come on now.
[–]elebrin 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, social media is fantastic for that for sure. Judges shouldn't be making decisions based on what someone said on social media (unless it's a defendant and they are admitting something, that's different). Other people's speculation has no place in a court of law.
That said if she is responsible for this then she should have gone to prison.
[–]mwobuddy -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Damn she's hot. I wish i'd made that baby with her.
[–]Thuban 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You are a idiot.
[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So you dont think shes hot?
[–]Kane928 -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She deserves to die. Abuse to an eight month old should be given the death penalty.
© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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[–]santobal 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ISpeakFrankly 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (6 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[+]Sekolah -12 points-11 points-10 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 39 points40 points41 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Critonurmom 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Sekolah 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TacoOrgy 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]johnfanboy 21 points22 points23 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]anticommon 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] (7 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]mensmod[M] 12 points13 points14 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]YadaYadaYada2 15 points16 points17 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]santobal 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]DmitriyTokar 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rcm003 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YourFriendlySidekick 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheAfterman89 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]alrightknight 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SatanInMySubway 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]tamrix 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]chubbyunicorn69 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KeathleyWR 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Quintrell 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]StoneHolder28 16 points17 points18 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]StoneHolder28 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wiseprogressivethink 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rorodagher 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]_vend7u4 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Doogle89 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rosephine 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HL4ND3R 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fluidlogic3 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]FallingTower 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]herefortheparty01 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 92 points93 points94 points (114 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 76 points77 points78 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]lady_lowercase 30 points31 points32 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]krawm 22 points23 points24 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 -1 points0 points1 point (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]krawm 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ostmeistro 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]mmmmph_on_reddit 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ostmeistro 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]mmmmph_on_reddit 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ostmeistro 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]an_eloquent_enemy0 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]krawm 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]redthrow1125 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KROMExRainbow 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wellshire 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Kabayev -55 points-54 points-53 points (85 children) | Copy Link
[–]Odz2427 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 59 points60 points61 points (49 children) | Copy Link
[+]twiztedterry -26 points-25 points-24 points (42 children) | Copy Link
[–]bad_news_everybody 28 points29 points30 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]twiztedterry -6 points-5 points-4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bad_news_everybody 13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Odz2427 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 34 points35 points36 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 10 points11 points12 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Odz2427 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Kabayev -21 points-20 points-19 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]eDgEIN708 30 points31 points32 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]orphancrippla 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]next_DanDy 4 points5 points6 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]AreYouDeaf 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Kabayev -16 points-15 points-14 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Odz2427 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Kabayev 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Am_Neon[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]LabTech41 -9 points-8 points-7 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 4 points5 points6 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]LabTech41 -1 points0 points1 point (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]LabTech41 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]LabTech41 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]cp710 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Odz2427 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]yoshi314 -6 points-5 points-4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]sennhauser 24 points25 points26 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]StillMind2010 14 points15 points16 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]casmuff 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blacky372 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]StillMind2010 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Proteus_Marius 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheKomuso 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MotoGpMike 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BatmanHimself 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JohnnySkidmarx 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mentioned_Videos 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zelian820 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gnarlin 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Thuban 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]metaltrite 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]quijote3000 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]realopinions-124 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]xX_ArsonAverage_Xx 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Christophilies 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ImGonnaObamaYou 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kielly32 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WalshGuy420 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Splatacus 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ZonkedZombie 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Zelian820 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Algur 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]helderdude 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]shaboi_mike 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jake4200 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chickenthang47 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MaRmARk0 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bioemerl 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Noah__Webster 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kursdragon 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]funkymoose1233 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]kursdragon 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]funkymoose123 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pon_Bear_Swilly 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Surtysurt 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sweetb00bs 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]IFuckingHateWarmBeer 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]angelcake 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThomasTheWarpEngine 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Frostadwildhammer 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]krawm 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Gyrosplater 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rexsplinter 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gunnerdown15 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LoveFoolosophy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ted8367 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]chambertlo 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]xthebatman 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]UseKnowledge -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]budster16 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bojangles657 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]elebrin -4 points-3 points-2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]sennhauser 7 points8 points9 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]feraxil 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]elebrin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy -5 points-4 points-3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Thuban 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kane928 -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link