I just don't get why feminists say the patriarchy is responsible of men's problems as well

dingoperson2 · 2021-11-08T18:28:38+00:00

It's to try to recruit you to fight their wars by lying to you: https://www.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/poerzl/feminist_trickledown_equality_the_fight_against/

Regularly, feminists make statements on the form of:

You are worried about bad thing X that affects men negatively? Well, X is actually caused by patriarchy (in very intangible, indirect, thoughts-and-perceptions ways). So you should help dismantle patriarchy, then your goal will come to you and be achieved as a side effect, trickling down!"

And in the next step, the specific ACTIONS they want to "dismantle patriarchy", will involve clear, direct, tangible benefits for women.

KiwiOnThePizza · 2021-11-08T16:16:32+00:00

Patriarchy is like the joker card, they use it to explain everything.

thunderstorm-nigg · 2021-11-08T18:27:11+00:00

Patriarchy is hashirama cells for feminists. If there's a plot hole or any kind of unexplained bullshit it's because of patriarchy

FineCannabisGrower · 2021-11-08T16:03:55+00:00

I remember that "our" "oppressive patriarchy" is responsible for everything from women's suffrage to making and deciding family law that certainly doesn't do men any favors, so..

goinsouth85 · 2021-11-08T17:04:10+00:00

Women have a problem. Men’s fault. Men have a problem Women most affected and Men’s fault.

BeNice_777 · 2021-11-08T16:10:48+00:00

For a feminist the patriarchy = men.

ConflictedRebel · 2021-11-08T16:02:01+00:00

They are confused and they want to minimize the issue. The media is definitely a huge contributor. Disney princess movies. Also, Barbie and Betsy Wettsie dolls.

ChiefBobKelso · 2021-11-08T20:07:36+00:00

Because they're fixed in to that position, so they need some form of excuse. As an explanation, they can just say that men are both evil and incompetent. Evil enough to set up the system, but incompetent enough to do it so badly that it hurts us too.

Mythandros · 2021-11-09T00:34:17+00:00

It's a catch-all term to excuse their own bad behaviour and their vile man-hate.

There is no such thing as "patriarchy". Never has been, never will be.

The same way there's no such thing as "rape culture" or "toxic masculinity".

Feminism is a hate cult with only one purpose: to hate on, demonize and belittle men.

snickers1284 · 2021-11-08T17:06:11+00:00

It's because feminism does not want to own up to the fact that women are partly responsible for the problems that women themselves face. They don't want women to feel the burden of personal responsibility for themselves or other women. This is true for developed first world nations.

Patriarchy is their scape goat for taking any responsibility for their share of the issues, while maintaining their victim status so they can keep their gravy train of special privileges.

Holding women responsible for anything is victim blaming.

xcheshirecatxx · 2021-11-08T20:20:09+00:00

For a femihistx everything has to be men's fault

Iceman_Hottie · 2021-11-08T22:49:35+00:00

It all comes primarily from 3 things (short version).

Feminism was only ever useful to gain political power, as its foundational principle is narrative over reality (a critical flaw shared by all philosophies based on romanticism).
Using 1, Feminism, as a movement has started with an unquestionable assertion that men have historically oppressed women (which based on effectively biology near impossible and falce based on historical records). Doing so it allows them to not judge people as individuals, but based on their assertions (i.e. Their delusions about reality, rather than verifiable data). In this oppressor/oppressed framework nothing done to the declared oppressor can be unjust and injustice towards them is considered a moral good, for example to most feminists it is a morally good thing to deprive men of human rights.
The "patriarchy" delusion (created by Simone de Beauvoire) uses 1 and 2 to justify and normalize abusive relationships of all types (she openly supported pedophilia).

Let me know if you want me to expand on any of these points.

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2021-11-08T17:56:02+00:00

Easy way to blame men's issues on men.

DIES-_-IRAE · 2021-11-08T17:16:59+00:00

Feminism Rule #1: Blame men.

Take that away from Feminism and they have practically nothing to complain about.

There's a reason Feminists refuse to practice any kind of introspection; cognitive dissonance is painful, it would violate Rule #1, and once you are used to privilege equality can feel like oppression.

Many are perfectly aware they have the upper hand in society and will do and say anything to maintain that precious "oppressed" status.

Signal_Boat7276 · 2021-11-09T01:48:28+00:00

Because a patriarchy consists in giving men responsibilities obligations and rights while protecting women ( chivalry), matriarchy consists giving women rights and protection while giving men responsabilities and obligations

hifi3xx · 2021-11-08T20:02:50+00:00

They can't say misandry because that would force them to admit that they aren't victims and that women can be oppressors. Which would remove their victim status and with that removes all of their power and privilege. So they can't deny that men have problems but they can't admit that they are the ones causing them so they blame the patriarchy because it is their fall back.

Intelligent_Signal66 · 2021-11-08T16:46:19+00:00

It's probably the only thing they know how to blame

jedi1josh · 2021-11-08T20:15:16+00:00

I tried telling my girlfriend that there's a matriarchy too. I told her the matriarchy is why that man who was getting stabbed by his wife also got shot by the police, and she immediately tried to deny that had anything to do with matriarchy and everything to do with inept cops.

Abstract_Knight · 2021-11-09T01:04:22+00:00

Femcels... Incels.... Fanatism...

"all is fault of the society".

Metrack14 · 2021-11-08T17:30:00+00:00

You see, Patriarchy cause all the problems for men, while also giving privileges to men, you see? Totally logical!, and if you disagree, you are an oppressive patriarchy! /s

majestic_tapir · 2021-11-09T15:35:48+00:00

Because it's bullshit. The Patriarchy is a "thing", but it's a thing that benefits the top 0.1%. It's not a gender issue, it's a rich vs poor issue.

So, you'll get a load of women saying "Ha, patriarchy", then a load of men going "What patriarchy? I work 3 jobs, the fuck you on about?", not realising that the women are referring to the very top of the pyramid.

This link says it best: https://www.wokefather.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/apex-fallacy.png

JeyLeNoire · 2021-11-08T16:13:30+00:00

It's called capitalism.

plaudite_cives · 2021-11-08T18:13:50+00:00

have you ever been to the sunday school? There is a classic joke that "Jesus is always the right answer".
In feminism, the patriarchy is the root of all evil by definition (and it can't ever have any positive effect)

YesYesYesVeryGood · 2021-11-08T20:51:00+00:00

Well said.

I am glad to see more people are properly referring to the attack on men as misandry rather than feminism. Misandry is masked as feminism.

12Yeet34 · 2021-11-08T19:59:13+00:00

About as hard as it is to say "I'm wrong."

No-Feedback7437 · 2021-11-09T02:44:35+00:00

I don't see that many feminists complaining about Afghanistan how women are brutalized there but they have time to protest abortion 🤔 🤔🤔

Plesioman · 2021-11-09T09:04:57+00:00

I think it's because classic roles in society have put men in the "strong, confident, protector" category, and when you deviate from those roles you are instantly criticized. This is still continued today when people laugh at men for crying or being vulnerable, this is done by all genders so it's not wrong to include men to blame for this issue.

The definition of a patriarchy is that men hold most of the moral and social power, if this is true then it is men who are also, if not more responsible for defining the masculine role in society. This is a problem created by our ancestors, not by modern men. We are responsible though for not continuing this idea of "men have to be strong and devoid of emotions", and that's something we all have to contribute to.

(Sorry if it's hard to follow what I'm trying to say, not my first language lol)

Balefirez · 2021-11-09T09:21:59+00:00

They do it because they want support and they want to be seen as being for equality. Anyone who isn’t “in charge” can and should be encouraged to overthrow the oppressors. If they can get disenfranchised men to do it for them, so much the better. When the revolution is complete, they will be tossed aside as having outlived their usefulness.

Echo_Storm_Shadow · 2021-11-09T16:55:07+00:00

The thing is, patriarchy puts men as “oh yeah no emotions super strong never cry” which isn’t true, men cry.

Svenskbtch · 2021-11-11T10:08:35+00:00

They are deliberately conflating gender roles (which hurt men and can be seen in things like the empathy and life expectancy gaps) and patriarchy defined implicitly as a system that benefits men at the expense of women.

Pretty disingenuous: that way, they can justify focusing only on how gender roles hurt women and ignore how they hurt men because, after all, we already have the benefits of patriarchy.

See how that works...?

DraganTehPro · 2021-11-13T23:54:40+00:00

It's pretty hard to say misandry because feminists will have to admit that men have issues that they might have caused.

ThePigmanAgain · 2021-11-09T00:49:46+00:00

Feminists are liars who like to blame others for their own evil deeds. By their logic, women in Saudi Arabia should be blaming their woes on the matriarchy!

rockafault · 2021-11-08T20:00:45+00:00

The patriarchy is a buzz word and even if we elected nothing but women into office, they'd still be throwing it at us because they'll just complain about the billionaires being a male majority. Imagine having nothing but female leaders and then we complained about the matriarchy. They'd browbeat and shame us regardless.

sneedchuckfuck · 2021-11-09T14:10:25+00:00

How hard is to say misandry

It is hard, though. They just can't use that word. It's always framed as some male thing that backfired on men, it's never framed as an anti-male thing. But when it comes to feminism however, then they use the direct terms like misogyny. They just can't admit that society has the capability to be hateful towards men, so they have to come up with jargon to avoid using the most accurate word to describe a direct effect.

mastermonster1 · 2021-11-08T19:15:43+00:00

I think they mean the structure of society in general. Like when an alpha chimp dominates men and women in the pack, it causes everyone problems, but is still technically male dominated.

Everyone always sees it from their own side so they say patriarchy, you say misandry. But we're all talking about the same inherent problems in society.

The term patriarchy is outdated imo, but don't let the term make you think they're pointing to you as the problem. We're all in the fight against our oppressors at the top

RusticSurge10 · 2021-11-08T18:43:49+00:00

yeah I get how you don't get it op but let me put it like this

you know how feminism (while attacking men) is also bad for women?

how feminism sometimes makes women look and feel bad to make men feel bad etc?

xanx_00 · 2021-11-09T06:06:40+00:00

In case you’re actually looking for a genuine answer: the patriarchy in this sense refers to the traditional stereotypical patriarchal role that men are expected and demanded to assimilate into and provide. You know how you’re not supposed to cry? Show emotions? You’re supposed to be protective abs out yourself second? Women and children go in the lifeboat first? Men get drafted to war and women stay behind to make bombs? Men’s health issues are overlooked and therapy is considered sin? The answer to those questions is your title

bluefootedpig · 2021-11-08T18:24:42+00:00

Patriarchy tends to benefit men, but not in all cases. Hence men are often "disposable", that is a patriarchy thing that men should be protectors and sacrifice themselves for others.

But along side that, just for example, men get overwhelming the funding for start ups. Given the same product, a man is far more likely to get Angel Funding. Why would the same product get more funding if you were a man if we were all treated the same? Because high risk business loans seem safer among men. That is a patriarchy.

I don't think in Misandry, you end up with 90% of your business owners being men, or have several S&P500 companies with 100% men board members. I can't find a single company on the S&P500 that is 100% woman board.

ForlornedLastDino · 2021-11-08T19:58:49+00:00

I may get downvoted but agree to a point with this viewpoint.

The patriarchy was the driving force behind the roles assigned each gender in society.

The limiting aspect of gender roles affect both women and men. Feminism has done a good job changing it so when women break gender roles, then the woman is praised.

Men still have work to do. You break male stereotypes it just gets you called a “fag” or some other knock at your masculinity.

So yeah, the Patriarchy does put restrictions on men and can negatively impact their life choices.

GlassCoins · 2021-11-08T19:54:44+00:00

Hello! I'm a passer-by willing to explain.

"How can something be helpful and hurtful at the same time?" Luckily its not a difficult answer.

You can benefit from the patriarchy by things like paying less money for the same items, being the primary study group of basically every single medical study, being considered inherently more qualified for male dominated careers, etc.

You be be harmed by an unrealistic standard for fitness or mental health, teaching unhealthy gender and work habits, encourage violence, etc.

So uh...yeah. lmao

program_mer · 2021-11-08T18:32:04+00:00

these feminist women are just inferior... that is why they blame patriarchy.. on the other hand they get job by quota given by the patriarchy

hippiedipstick · 2021-11-09T01:58:05+00:00

the patriarchy is associated with things like "being manly" (men not having emotions), it's the hyper masculine standards that are associated with the patriarchy that feminists are referring to.

ex: it's the patriarchal gender norms that prevents men from being open and honest about their feelings, therefore leading to a higher male suicide rate

JasHanz · 2021-11-08T17:14:16+00:00

Because it is.

The patriarchy is a conveniently masculine name to describe a social construct in which Men, Women, Trans and non binary all benefit and suffer. Some more than others, but it absolutely does affect everyone depending on context.

Unfortunately, most feminists conflate the term Patriarchy to literally mean Men, as in Men are the problem for ALL OF OUR TROUBLES, mine and yours so if you're a Man, this is your fault. It's meant as a way to indict Men without sounding sexist.

We Men chose to go and die in wars so othersdidn't have to. We get told we start the wars.

We Men tend to do the physically difficult, dangerous dirty work because others don't want to. We get told that's the way it should be and we should be happy to do it.

Feminism used to address issues affecting Women, and was necessary in the same way as BLM is necessary today, but Feminism has been corrupted by angry misandrists who'd rather hate all Men than go to therapy and learn to choose better for themselves.

That's why I'm an egalitarian.

Strange-Effort8841 · 2021-11-09T00:28:04+00:00

Because it is. the patriarchy is set up in a way where men are the providers, men are strong, men are dependable, etc. That leads to men's problems. Men are supposed to be strong so we can't show emotion which leads to bad mental health. We are supposed to be dependable so we can't depend on others which leads to feelings of loneliness and having no one to turn to. Men are supposed to be the providers so we don't feel like we can ask or receive help. Men are supposed to be dominant and in charge, so men usually don't report cases of sexual assault. All of this leads to a higher suicide rate among men. I can go on if anyone needs me to.

RunChariotRun · 2021-11-09T03:02:37+00:00

I think a lot of people easily miss the difference between narratives/concepts vs individual people. Things which benefit an overall narrative or societal “norm” are actually often damaging to individual people if every different and unique person is expected to conform to an expected norm.

For example, it’s an expected gender norm (and not without statistics) that men are typically bigger and stronger than women (and more often in leadership positions) and that men are “masculine” whereas women are “feminine”. I’m not talking about individual men here, I’m talking about the societally-expected concept of “men”.

And that sounds kind of good! TV shows and movies and books have lots of examples of what kind of masculinity society expects men to be! It’s heroic and strong and breathtaking! It gives boys great examples of ideals they could grow up to embody!

Except it can be damaging for many individual men. For example, not all men are big/tall or especially strong. Not all men are “masculine”. Not all men “look like” or “act like” what the default expectation of men is. Are those men worth less because they don’t match up with gender expectations? Hell, no! They are awesome and valuable people!

But, I see lots of men suffering because they think they are supposed to match up to some gender expectation or else others won’t value them. They think if they aren’t the hero of the story, then they’ve failed. They think if they are shorter or not so strong or like “feminine” things, then they are not “man” enough and wonder if something is wrong with them. They might notice that if they are short, they are less likely to be promoted to leadership at work, even if they are very capable. That’s really damaging to how individual people think of themselves and what opportunities are available to them. And if folks around them make these gender assumptions, then it’s even worse because they’ll lack support to be and express who they really are. That puts so much unnecessary pressure on men to conform to a demanding gender role.

A lot of feminism has helped women to separate their concept of who they are as an individual from the concept/narrative of what society expects from women - it gives them the freedom to be an individual rather than whatever “a woman” is supposed to be.

I hope one day I see more men being able to embrace who they are as individuals without having to care about what “a man” is supposed to be or do, and being able to have good relationships and jobs where they aren’t judged.

So, “the patriarchy” benefits men in general over women or non-binary folks (think of a crown being passed down from a king to his son, but not to his daughters). But it actually can harm individual people who are trapped in a role (what if the son didn’t want to become a king and becomes depressed because he had a different dream for his life instead?)

Title	I just don't get why feminists say the patriarchy is responsible of men's problems as well
Author	Slayer-O-Furries
Upvotes	451
Comments	173
Date	November 8, 2021 3:41 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qpg7rj/i_just_dont_get_why_feminists_say_the_patriarchy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-just-dont-get-why-feminists-say-the-patriarchy.1085231 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085231

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