I'm going on 'trial' tomorrow infront of my superiors and fellow staff, after being falsely accused(by F) of harassment.

UnconventionalXY · 2021-11-07T11:49:08+00:00

I could never keep it together during job interviews until someone suggested I take performance out of the equation: go into the interview, not with the intention of getting the job, but to find out more about the position and the company to see if it was a good fit with my interests and requirements. It worked and although I didn't get the jobs, I was much more relaxed and communicative because I was doing it for my interest: their interest was outside my control anyway.

Perhaps you could use a similar approach: this is not a trial about you, but an opportunity for you to discover the calibre of the company you work for and how they respond to potential lies. You can only present your own position and evidence truthfully: you have no control over the outcome since you aren't making the decisions, so don't worry about it. At least they are talking about transfer, which suggests they would prefer not to fire you, so your value is recognised.

If the company is rational, they will recognise that the dispute does not involve you and other members, but it is possible this other person is in dispute with others apart from yourself and the company may be aware of it behind the scenes. Don't discount that your opponent has already shot themselves in the foot and the company has other evidence to combine with your own to support your position, so it may be the other party actually on trial. Try not to assume the outcome because you are not in possession of all the information the company hopefully has in their possession already.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst, try to keep calm and good luck.

itchyotcthy · 2021-11-07T15:47:41+00:00

I have not read all the comments but I'm sure there is some good advice.

'both sides are at fault' : do not admit to anything...even by mistake..

What do I mean? Because of me being me and wanting to be fair all the time, mostly anyway. During my Work Place Performance Reviews - I admitted to be angry sometimes or annoyed or 'yes I did speak to Freddy in a bad way'. Then that was used against me in my next Review. Then I was telling all this situation to an ex Female Boss of mine and she straight out said: never admit to anything, they MUST prove it. You wear your heart on your sleeve, it is up to them to deal with the problems and not you.

So in my next Performance Review my Male Team Leader did what he always did and brought up my 'admissions' and this time I denied everything. So instead of a 30/45 minute review it turned into a 2 hour meeting with me continually denying what he was saying and asking him to prove it. At times I saw him turn a very dark Red in the face due to the angry, I assume, he was feeling that 'he wasn't getting his way with me'.

This is not relevant to you, maybe but I want to share. Prior to the meeting mentioned above, another female friend who is a project person gave me some wording and how to manage my team leader (so 2 females now giving me advice) and the wording I had was:

The performance review forum is not the one to find out about isolated personal differences with other members of staff. These should be dealt with at the time when they occur, and at the very least recorded if they are of a serious enough nature to provide a pattern of behaviour that needs to be discussed at the performance review.

I would like HR to validate these points to ensure our next discussion is of a mutual understanding of how a performance review should be conducted.

I'm sorry if I am just 'ranting' now but after I said all this using the wording above, I never received a bad Performance Review 'again.'

Try and be strong on the day and have a back up that evening that you can full apart afterwards... give yourself permission to 'fall apart after the event'....

I wish you well!

VincentZ6 · 2021-11-07T14:08:27+00:00

Keep a recording device, don't let them see it. If things don't go as planned check with a lawyer about laws on recording and if they're legal the recording of the interaction might be able to help build a case against the company if it comes down to it. Keep emotions out of it when doing so, you want to be more rational and cold, women and the world (possibly even the lawyer you find) prey upon emotional men.

TheWatchingCat · 2021-11-07T12:25:24+00:00

I can't imagine the pain you are going trough. Wish I could say 'everything will be fine' but that would be a lie. Even if you win this case, some people still may look bad at you. I sincerely wish the best for you and your family.

hjbuell · 2021-11-07T16:09:53+00:00

In your position, I would go in with all of the evidence and request a transfer to be moved away from her abuse. In doing so, cite the number of times you’ve reported her abuse and had nothing happen. Follow up by stating that you’re uncomfortable working in an environment where your complaints are ignored (let a man smash a water bottle on a woman’s desk and see were that ends), and have the results of the meeting and reasons for your transfer all documented.

If your previous reports were not properly documented (email chain, and so on), then lesson learned. In the future, document everything in a traceable and verifiable format.

If you don’t want to be transferred, simply ask management to document in writing what they’re position is were you to have smashed a water bottle on her desk, and ask why they aren’t taking similar actions in her case.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-11-07T11:07:47+00:00

You are guilty of nothing you are the victim here.
Use those emotions you have in your favour, express them as a victim crying or whatever in that meeting, because thats the only language they understand.
I wish you the best of luck !!
Make a stand for you and for all of us men out here fighting of institutional misandry.

auMatech · 2021-11-07T15:55:16+00:00

Good luck, chances are that you'll get the short end of the stick though. Sorry.

Even if you aren't transferred, your boss and the accuser will make sure that you will suffer where you are.

texasslapshot · 2021-11-07T11:17:36+00:00

You should have a HR representative there too.

shortman162cm · 2021-11-07T11:07:42+00:00

that's why I will only work in male dominated industry and pray my superior or colleagues are not women

DouglasWallace · 2021-11-07T17:15:04+00:00

I hope you have not only used the matters you raise about her in defence but use them as a complaint. If not, make that complaint (first thing tomorrow) and insist on being informed of progress on it.

Tell them that you have been advised to consider taking her and your employers to court. (What? Nobody has advised you on that yet? Read this: I advise you to consider taking her and your employers to court. Also consider the police and any available work tribunal.) Let them know that if you do decide to take action, you will be seeking damages for the loss of reputation and for the emotional stress.

Don't just defend. Attack.

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2021-11-07T13:50:34+00:00

I had a female co-worker accuse me of sexual harassment. When we met with our manager and a rep from HR, both women, and I had a chance to speak, I denied any sexual harassment and then I bluntly stated why. I told our manager and the HR rep that I’m a professional and I don’t “play at work”. Then, I said that I’m married and I respect my marriage vows. Then, I looked my accuser in the eye and said that even if I was going to have an affair I wouldn’t have one with her. My wife is a highly educated mental health professional while my accuser barely made it through high school. If I was going to cheat on my wife and potentially ruin my marriage and lose my children it would have to be with someone better than my wife…and, my accuser isn’t. My accuser is a single mother who isn’t sure who her child’s father is. Why would I bring that kind of drama into my life? At this point, my accuser started crying and one of the women said, “That’s enough” to which I responded, “No…she made the accusation and now I’m defending myself”. I went on to talk about how the woman is mentally ill and, again, I don’t need that drama in my life and, finally, I said that although I dated women from all different ethnicities before I met my wife, I’m not attracted to white women with flat behinds so there’s no way in hell I would have sexually harassed her because, frankly, I didn’t find her physically attractive. When I finished, my accuser was sobbing and my manager and the HR rep were staring at me. It was obvious that it didn’t go the way they had planned. I ended the silence by asking if we were done so I could return to work or did I have to go contact my lawyer to discuss how to deal with false sexual harassment accusations that lead to termination of employment. I was allowed to return to work. My accuser resigned two weeks later.

ChadWolf98 · 2021-11-07T17:25:00+00:00

Cite the Against False Accusations Act and demand a trial by combat /s

Joking aside, do you have a lawyer? I wouldnt say a thing without one. If you have one listen to him.

TAPriceCTR · 2021-11-07T18:19:14+00:00

When a feminist thinks a woman SHARES in the blame "both sides are at fault" that means the man is blameless.

OrokanaKiti · 2021-11-07T19:34:52+00:00

Curious for update when possible!!

Insidious-Sid · 2021-11-07T22:46:08+00:00

"My superior (also woman) has a tendency to think that 'both sides are at fault'

As a man, you're held to a higher standard. If they are going to fire one person over this, because "both" are at fault, it will probably be you.

Update your resume. Go in there and say as LITTLE as possible.

"Fighting" to win this "case" will only be spun by woke talking head idiots like your female manager as "See? He is rather aggressive."

I was in the exact same situation with a psychopathic workplace bully (man in this case) where they were put us both on "trial" and hearing "both sides". LOL. Um yeah, psychopaths do this thing called lying and playing the victim. And yes, you feel like one of two misbehaving children when they do this. It's pathetic.

There is no due process in the workplace.

When a rampaging psychotic cunt has it in for you at work, sadly, it's very often time to move on. Even if she is being completely unreasonable and there is proof that SHE is the instigator, I've seen it where it's the man who is terminated or relocated.

Even in one recent case, a family member reported to me that a woman (with a small gang of supporters) went on a complete Level Ten Cunt character assassination and false accusation rampage on a fellow at work. The guy, wisely, got them making their claims IN E-MAILS and TEXTS and he never responded aggressively. He calmly disproved everything they said - and even showed how IN WRITING they were literally admitting to being on a rampage and would not stop until he was fired.

The vagina is a get out of jail free card for the absolutely worst workplace behaviour. You don not have one. I wish you the best.

I recommend men find careers and jobs where there are mostly men, and minimise contact with females in the workplace. Not All Women Are Like That? Maybe, but it seems there is at least one psycho cunt in every work place, just looking for a place to happen.

This behaviour continues because it's both tolerated and enabled.

wheelsmatsjall · 2021-11-08T05:28:38+00:00

I am a gay male and I was told that I came onto a female co-worker one time. They did not know I was gay and I said okay let's take it before a review board and then I said I am gay and here is a picture of my husband. Stoped them in their tracks They did not know what to do.

deezmrpeanuts · 2021-11-07T16:55:28+00:00

Just keep a cool head be calm and always think about being in the right.

purplelightofRED · 2021-11-07T21:48:26+00:00

You will make it. The truth will be heard. Be firm, don't accept what you didn't do in the name of "compromise". I know your society may not like what I'm going to say but I'll say it, man up!

You are a strong chap and no accusation will make you any less. You've done the right thing and you are going to make it.

Now raise your head, stand straight and win. As your fellow man, I'm on your side from this far out.

wheelsmatsjall · 2021-11-08T05:26:35+00:00

Today there is no justice. Men are deemed guilty before the trial even starts there is no such thing as innocent till proven guilty anymore when it comes to man that are always found guilty and judged before.

YouSeeMeHereAndThere · 2021-11-07T15:59:01+00:00

!remind me 24h

I really hope this situation turns out good for you. It's awful to see this kind of behavior in jobs, it makes me have quite fear of getting a job where women are involved, I wouldn't be completely comfortable working with them for this reason.

AxalonNemesis · 2021-11-07T20:47:14+00:00

I'd maybe look into getting a lawyer. This isn't a transfer situation. This is a fire situation. What that bitch has done was create a hostile work environment....and your boss has encouraged it by not doing anything every time you have reported it.

Men-Are-Human · 2021-11-07T21:01:22+00:00

Be the calm collected one. Let her get mad. And good luck.

Adeus_Ayrton · 2021-11-07T21:23:45+00:00

Keep your cool and present the evidence in a calm, collected manner.

You could do a bit of juxtaposing: Ask them if a male employee would've been kept, if they smashed a waterbottle on a female employee's desk, or openly insult them.

Having a lawyer present definitely would help.

Mythandros · 2021-11-07T21:27:53+00:00

Many women default to that kind of behaviour for one reason: It works.

Why change it when it's effective?

You shouldn't feel guilt if you're the innocent party. Especially when dealing with someone as nasty and disgusting as that bitch.

If your co-workers think less of you based on the lies she tells, they aren't worth your respect, pain or guilt.

scoomr3 · 2021-11-07T23:48:22+00:00

You gotta stay strong big dog ✊ we’re all with you

lizarddog01 · 2021-11-08T04:14:46+00:00

Only give them the info they ask for. Don't volunteer anything. You will give them more fuel to the fire.

raytaylor · 2021-11-08T11:15:27+00:00

You are the victim. Your opening position should be
"I am standing here as a victim of a false accusation, and as such I am currently assessing how the company deals with this form of bullying and if or at what stage I will need to seek legal advice. A key point on my decision making will be how the company deals with this unique form of bullying and the emotional damage that can do to me as a person. Of a more serious issue is considering if I need to take any action against this false accuser who is obviously slandering my reputation which is important to me and my standing in the community."
That will immediately change the direction of the proceedings.

After asserting the position that you are innocent - you dont have to explain or defend yourself in detail, just be confident in your assertion, state that you are here to collect the statements made against you, to clarify dates and times, and answer any questions which the company may have. It is important you read from your diary, use specific dates.
A cop once told me that - The person that appears trustworthy in court is someone that can pull out their notepad and recite the notes he made immediately after events in question. The other party usually cant do that and starts rambling or making incoherent arguments.

During the meeting, you need to make a show of taking notes of key points or phrases that the HR staff make, as well as the accuser under the guise of collecting notes for your lawyer to consider. Your not there to defend yourself. Your an innocent victim of a bully. They are lucky you bothered to show up and they are trying to convince you not to sue them.

Any HR person is going to see that and immediately find you to be the bigger risk to the company. Remember the HR person represents the company - not the bully. If you are suddenly showing you have a good case to sue the company for not removing the workplace bully, the HR person will try and prevent the situation from escalating.

Remember this isnt a direct threat. "I'll sue you" should never be said.
You are simply "considering your legal options". and "May have no option but to seek legal advice."

The position at the end of the meeting should be
"It is my position that I am unable to continue working near this person. I feel that I have been an upstanding member of the staff while this person has made false accusations and shown herself to be untrustworthy and actively endeavored to create an inhospitable working environment. In the modern age this form of bullying is especially damaging to a mans reputation. I feel that if this person remains working in the same office, I wont be able to recover emotionally from the damage she has caused and will have no option but to continue seeking legal advice. Transferring the bully after a written apology to another department or office will be acceptable however I wont be moving from my position that I enjoy and have worked hard to reach."

Oh and during the meeting its not a bad thing to randomly stop the conversation, ask the person to stop speaking while you make notes and ask them to repeat key phrases or dates while you take the time to write them down. Demonstrate you are in control of the meeting and it will not be rushed. Making notes during the meeting allows you to have time to process calmly what is being said and gives you an excuse to delay the conversation while you think about your responses or statements rather than an immediate retort which may be more fueled by emotion.

If you are a member of a union it would be good to have the union rep there too or a support person.

Quietly Record the meeting on your phone. This is not for evidence in court or at an employment tribunal but more a transcript later. Putting on your show with the note taking in your diary is what they will see and will affect their behavior.
Randomly pick things that they say happened and ask for them to repeat the date so you write it down correctly and then ask them to clarify the time of the day.
Ask them to clarify who else was in the room at the time or if there were any witnesses. Dont specifically ask for proof.
As you write down the dates given, look back on your diary and say to yourself out loud "oh yes thats the day I had the meeting with the smith account" or "oh yes I had a call with Mr Smith that afternoon".
Simple questions where you appear to be the one in control and a good notemaker will make the bully nervous.

Thank the company HR person for attending the meeting (remember this is your meeting after all) and say you will consider what has been said but am always open to accepting a written apology.
Your attitude is that you are still the nice guy and willing to forgive and not take legal action against her for slandering you but working together is not an option going forward.
Ask for a follow up meeting with the HR person but set it for 2 weeks time - enough time for the HR person to consider the company position and come back earlier with their response if they decide they want to calm you down and deescalate quickly.
Be sure to schedule your diaries right then and there. If the HR person says they will get back to you, mention
"I am taking these false accusations and how the company reacts to this form of workplace bullying against me quite seriously and so I want to have either a resolution or to know the legal actions I'll need to put in place as soon as possible"

At that point it is important to turn to the bully and say "its also important to remember that you have slandered my reputation and irrespective of what actions the company decides regarding the workplace bullying, there is a separate serious matter which may need to be legally settled regarding the slander".

Again its without saying "i'll sue you" you are saying this wont be a matter for the company to sort out, this will be a matter for a court to sort out.
- If it ever got to that stage, when someone sues another person in court for slander, and even if the court dismisses the case and decides its not worth the courts time, the plaintiff (you) always win in the eyes of the public and media.
There are exceptions to that like if your famous or donald trump. But even lodging a claim against someone will show the media or public that you are so serious about it, you must be in the right because most people would let it go if the slander was slightly true.

If the meeting does escalate then another key phrase is
"Should I get to the point where I need to serve papers, Can you please let me know the name of the person and address for service?"
That is basically asking who the person that is authorised to accept the papers from your lawyer when you sue the company.

If all goes well, you will be able to leave the meeting first and the HR person can then be left alone with her to have a quick discussion.
The HR person will likely see the best solution is to move her to a separate office or department however I think they would take the tact of reminding her of the slander and her personal risk in court which would put the idea of resigning in her head (without directly advising it) which would be the better outcome for everyone.

When I say HR person - I obviously mean the highest level superior on the org chart at the meeting.

FlatspinZA · 2021-11-07T17:02:57+00:00

I'd definitely have a work colleague sitting in on the hearing to back you up.

tatertotsandchili · 2021-11-07T17:20:05+00:00

Just wanted to say best of luck to you, mate. Keep us posted on how this turns out. The bloody anti-man propaganda needs to fuck right off and I hope you beat this shit.

Jesus_marley · 2021-11-07T17:25:12+00:00

Check to see if you live in a one party consent state. If you are in Canada, single party consent is countrywide.

KnickkNaxx · 2021-11-07T17:40:08+00:00

Good luck I’m rooting for you

Inevitable_Cup_70 · 2021-11-07T19:51:16+00:00

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I hope everything turns out well for you.

Aranthos-Faroth · 2021-11-07T22:25:04+00:00

Say nothing without running it past someone with legal experience in this area, maybe your union (if you have one) can help with that.

Likely way too late right now (although I know there are some lawyers who would quickly give guidance (not advice per se) over the phone).

Best of luck OP. Stick your ground and if you truly are the innocent party here don’t compromise.

Key_Outlandishness10 · 2021-11-08T08:00:26+00:00

I also was falsely accused a few years ago at my old place of employment. I was given a write-up that stayed on my record for a year. It was basically "guilty until proven innocent." Even my boss admitted that they had no evidence against me when giving me the write-up.

wanderer779 · 2021-11-08T15:01:10+00:00

I would talk to a lawyer about this, see if you have a case. Especially if they don't address her behavior.

suckmywillaard · 2021-11-08T21:23:13+00:00

I know this is going to be a fucked up thing to ask, but I only ask it as someone who has a lot of experience with people with it

Do you have autism or Aspergers? If not I’m very sorry but being blunt If you do then it sounds like she could possibly discriminating you not only for being a man but for having difficulty socially.

Regardless of if you do or don’t, I would start off by explaining that you don’t even know why you started to be her target, you know you may react but that you have every right to express your emotions especially when no one around you in understanding how you feel about it, I would record the meeting on your phone (just the Audio) and then speak to your mum or your dad about it and ask for them to help you with a lawyer or taking it to the media or somthing

wwstewart · 2021-11-07T19:20:40+00:00

Don't worry about convincing them.

If they don't act like they want to hear your side, walk out.

Don't go back.

It sounds like you've encountered a narcissist at work. You have to learn to not respond to their bullshit. Look up "gray rock technique" and also look into manipulative tactics that narcs use.

Once you can see the patterns, you can start moving forward. :)

But yeah, I would consider walking straight out if possible/necessary. You might work for them, but you don't owe them a damned thing.

Don't feel sorry for the narc. They don't feel sorry for you, and they know damn well what they're doing (but will blame everything on anything that isn't them).

ballisticautistic09 · 2021-11-07T11:01:33+00:00

at the same time i feel bad for the accusee even though shes been mistreating me and for as long as shes been here. She just looks and behaves so disturbedly, and I just feel empathy for people so extremely easily

Jimmy5772 · 2021-11-07T15:29:17+00:00

100% you need to have an HR rep there do not do it without one.

scyth3s · 2021-11-07T18:28:39+00:00

You're the acusee, she's the accuser.

QueenBitchThrowaway · 2021-11-07T16:45:07+00:00

You're going to get fired.

Title	I'm going on 'trial' tomorrow infront of my superiors and fellow staff, after being falsely accused(by F) of harassment.
Author	ballisticautistic09
Upvotes	965
Comments	106
Date	November 7, 2021 11:00 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qomabm/im_going_on_trial_tomorrow_infront_of_my/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-going-on-trial-tomorrow-infront-of-my-superiors.1085451 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085451