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In Portugal the quality of the Covid vaccine you get depends on your gender.

July 12, 2021
1117 upvotes

The vaccination of people under 50 against Covid-19 in Portugal created a massive gender divide in the whole vaccination process. Portugal announced that men in the 18-50 age group would be getting the J&J (Janssen) vaccine while women would get only Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Astrazeneca vaccine is not given to that age group regardless of gender.

For those not acquainted with the different Covid vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have a 95% and 94.1% effectiveness respectively and nearly 100% effectiveness at preventing death or serious illness. Janssen vaccine on the other hand has 66% effectiveness in preventing moderate to severe disease. The excuse given for the gender segregation was that most cases of blood clots from Janssen vaccine occurred in women. However the truth is cases were extremely rare on both genders and the European Medicines Agency has recommended it for both genders within that age group. Portugal chose not to follow that recommendation.

It gets worse, however. Currently 90% of infections in Portugal come from the Delta variant. While Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (and most two-dose vaccines) have been proven to have very high efficacy against this variant, Janssen vaccine is thought to have little to no efficacy against it, similar to single shots of the remaining vaccines. This is concerning to the point that in the US there are already Pfizer/Moderna booster shots being administered to people who took the Janssen vaccine due to the Delta variant. Men in Portugal are being given a vaccine that offers little to no protection to the variant we have, and the government is aware of that.

Officially men in Portugal can be given the Janssen vaccine, but there is no official "men get this, women get that" rule. However such rule remains in practice in vaccination centers nonetheless.

Today I went to have my vaccine. I asked which one they were giving and of course it was Janssen. I asked whether they could give any of the others as this was the only vaccine I wasn't comfortable in getting. Staff consulted with each other (all female staff) and afterwards with the nurse and claimed it was impossible, that they only had Janssen vaccine. This is of course a lie since there were plenty of women in my age group getting the vaccine there and currently women in this age group cannot be given Janssen vaccine at all unless they volunteer themselves. This means a vaccination centre that is accepting women cannot have the Janssen vaccine exclusively. In other words their response shows a de facto rule that men are given only Janssen vaccine is being enforced.

Quoting the official announcement, "this single-dose vaccine may also be administered to women aged 50 years or below "who wish to do so, if duly informed, on a basis of weighing the benefits and risks", provided they express their "free and informed consent". Once again, "free and informed consent" is a right men do not have as is the case in many other matters.

This comes added to the fact that men are very disproportionately killed by Covid-19, with a current mortality of 2.1% (9.016 deaths among 415.709 infected) compared to women's 1.6% mortality (8.148 deaths among 493.506 infected). It's no surprise that men are considered disposable in Portugal as is usually the rule everywhere else. In fact, when the number of workplace accidents went from 78% male to 69% male the national worker's union (CGTP) presented it as an "aggravation of the gender inequality in work accidents" (Source in Portuguese), since male lives don't really matter.

Both the minster of health and the director of DGS (the authority that decides which vaccines are to be used, who they're administered to, etc.) are women.

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Post Information
Title In Portugal the quality of the Covid vaccine you get depends on your gender.
Author TheSpaceDuck
Upvotes 1117
Comments 150
Date July 12, 2021 5:07 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/MensRights
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/in-portugal-the-quality-of-the-covid-vaccine-you.824401
https://theredarchive.com/post/824401
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/oivkws/in_portugal_the_quality_of_the_covid_vaccine_you/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]goodmod[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy Link

The topic of discrimination in health services is appropriate for this subreddit.

Back-and-forth arguments about whether or not covid vaccines should be taken are off-topic and may be removed.

Such discussions should be held on a relevant health subreddit.

[–]Rambo_kevonx 132 points133 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I did not know, thanks for the info.

[–]reddut_gang 109 points110 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Add another one to the ever growing list

[–]Linkcraft_99 72 points73 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men in Portugal: Guess I'll just die ¯_('')

[–]SageBus 27 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guess I'll just die ¯_('')/¯

You've dropped a \ and a couple of _. I got them here here for you.

There we go ¯\_('')_/¯ much better now.

[–]funkynotorious 190 points191 points locked comment (40 children) | Copy Link

It's high time men need to organise. No more lone wolf mentality.

[–]Ok-Kaleidoscope1778 59 points60 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Let’s organize please! Hit me up!

[–]Ok-Kaleidoscope1778 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

58 upvotes. 0 people made contact to actually start taking action. This is why we aren’t heard.

[–]CorneredSponge 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Does r/MR have a discord?

[–]JackieNaper1907 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

yes!!! it's the men are human one. I'm a mod there

[–]ZangryGrapes 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

send the link

[–]Men-Are-Human 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just saw this thread and noticed nobody did. Here you go:

https://discord.gg/MZVwvq7

[–]Ok-Kaleidoscope1778 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If we don’t we need to make one!

[–]Men-Are-Human 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a mod there Here you go!

https://discord.gg/MZVwvq7

[–]XLandonSkywolfX 51 points52 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Classic case of "men are disposable" syndrome.

[–]jazzcomplete 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, males lives are not classed as valuable.

[–]Lethal_Ledgend 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Covid has killed more men than women but they give men the less effective vaccine? Misandristic fuckery I say.

[–]AG_N 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men should seriously stop working in labour and go on strike until we get a better treatment

[–]YesAmAThrowaway 105 points106 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

So basically: men at highest risk of covid, women most affected and thus most protected because yay sexism and male disposability enforced on a national level. This is all part of our government's preparations for the eventual global policy of Total Fucking Dead People and Bullshit as soon as the rich have made you so poor that you're little more than mindless slaves in front of your consumption devices. smile

[–]Magical-Hummus 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

God, this is just disgusting.

[–]manifest-breastiny 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck, that’s atrocious to hear. Sadly not surprised by this at all.

[–]Daddy_Stop 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Logically, its MEN who should be getting the more effective vaccines, if any gender is prioritised, as a means of lowering the OVERALL number of adverse events.

What we've been told is that the chances of having adverse affects from the vaccine are much lower than the chances of having adverse affects from COVID. Women are more likely to have adverse events from the vaccine, while men are more likely to have adverse events from COVID.

COVID is more likely to cause negative outcomes overall, AND more likely to cause these outcomes in men. Yet women, who suffer from the MUCH rarer vaccine side effects MARGINALLY more than men, get the 'special treatment'.... This is actually pathetic on the behalf of the Portuguese government.

[–]SnooHabits7185 22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Gotta love being a man in the western world.

[–]Bisexual-Bop-It -5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I didnt know Portugal was western!

[–]goodmod 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you look at a map of Europe, it's right at the western end of the mainland.

While I'm not an expert on Portugal, in the broadest sense Western culture is pretty much a set of variations on 20th century European culture.

[–]Susmarshmallow 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yay sexism against men by putting their lives at risk cause as society sees it we have less value

[–]inblack 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm very confused about this post, I just got the Pfizer vaccine and know that the options that I would received would be Pfizer, Moderna or J&J.

Women get to get the first two so I really don't understand why people are only receiving J&J.
I think it may be an strategic option for the portuguese militar forces on the vaccines distribution.

[–]Linkcraft_99 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thx man, when I go to edit them back in they are still there, I don't know where reddit put them.

[–]DonDuarte 32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I found this very weird so I tried asking around friends of mine who've been vaccinated. All of them said they got Janssen. Today FC Porto's players (one of our biggest football teams) got vaccinated. They all got Janssen as shown via FC Porto's Instagram.

I've always seen this place as a "the weird stuff only happens in the bigger countries, in my small Portugal I just have to deal with the noisy feminists crying and the quotas for companies". Now I refuse to be vaccinated with anything that isn't Pfizer or Moderna. I wouldn't care if such a division between genders wasn't made, but as a true supporter of equality, if when I get called to get the vaccine, they give me Janssen and no opportunity to get any of the other two, I'll walk out of the building while showing them this + the portuguese news articles and making some noise.

I'll be translating this information and spreading it in portuguese subreddits. In one of those I'm pretty sure I'll be banned for posting this, but I don't care.

[–]Susmarshmallow 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can someone link me a link to an article reporting on this I want it for something

[–]gratis_eekhoorn 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

welcome to clown world

[–]sake23456 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The only hope for MRAs is that the rich and powerful men stop supporting gynocentrism and stop throwing other men under the bus.

[–]a-man-from-earth 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chance of that happening: 0%

[–]Reiwa_ 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's those rich and powerful old men supporting gynocentrism and throwing young men under the bus.

[–]andejoh 16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Bit remember the gender life expectancy gap is only due to biological differences between men and women. It has nothing to do with boys / men not getting the HPV vaccine girls were allowed to get, not having any "men's health" otems mandated in the Affordable Care Act, and now getting a less effective covid jab.

[–]dontpet 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Testosterone poisoning by the patriarchy.

Worst. Patriarchy. Ever.

[–]Eoasap 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

🤣

[–]Tigarana 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't this make sense? As side effects of the other vaccines are mostly reported in women?

[–]Infamous_Pay5798 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Make sense,no. Women are probably being affected by side effects by a small amount compared to men that is if their reporting and statistics are actually accurate and empathetic of men. People should have the freedom to choose their vaccine regardless of gender. Considering minster of health and the director of DGS of Portugal are both women which in of it self is fine, seriously it’s okay that they’re women but based of how they decided on who gets what vaccine, they clearly are unfit for their jobs.

[–]Tigarana 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, actually it's not "a small amount compared to men". Due to estrogen levels women can have a higher risk of developing blood cloths, and some of the vaccines increase that risk in a higher level for women compared to men...

[–]goodfoobar 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People should be aware of the risks that come with vaccination. There are two after market passive data collection systems that have world recognition documenting these risks. Passive data collecting systems rely on people voluntary submitting reports so they collect a small percentage of the total number of events out there.

The UK yellow card system. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

The US VAERS system filtered by COVID19 vaccine and Serious events https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&VAXTYPES=COVID-19&SERIOUS=ON

[–]crackerjap1941 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lets not confuse efficacy and overall vaccine effectiveness

[–]PM_ME_NICE_STUFF1 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To add to this: Men have a significantly lower risk of getting side effects when they get JJ and Astra.

I also don't think OPs claims are true:

Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson, have shown to be largely effective against preventing serious illness and death due to COVID, and all three companies say that their vaccines are showing promise in preventing those outcomes with the Delta variant as well.

According to a press release earlier this month, the single-shot Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine provides at least eight months of immunity against coronavirus, and shows “strong, persistent” protection against the Delta variant.

Source

[–]jeff_the_nurse 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To think I thought they were a great country for men 🤷‍♂️

[–]rahulrajrai 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm in Canada and not Portugal but I hope men in Portugal protest this

[–]BornAgainSpecial 12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The Portugual Government must know that the Johnson vaccine doesn't make you sterile.

[–]Mark_Landers_93 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We are rulled by the left wing (with support from the far left). The party in charge was actually the one I voted but… since they become close the fart left I started to see so many stupid ideas appearing. Quick stupid example, the party has a fraction dedicated just for women. They are discussing the possibility of this fraction become a “sub-party”. They want 50% of genders represented in every structure of party AND they want to incorporate this national wise……… even in the boards of private companies. Yes, we are reaching that point.

[–]UnconventionalXY -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually, equal representation in decision making is important, but beyond that gender should neither be facilitated or deprived and allowed to find its own level.

[–]Ariliescbk 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Could you not just tell the doctor that you want X instead of Y? They would still have to comply with the patient's wishes, bodily autonomy, informed consent, etc. If you don't like one, get a second opinion and all that.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As already pointed out, I did ask. However I was outright denied (either J&J or it counts as vaccine refusal), even though they did have other vaccines since as I explained women were also getting vaccinated there and they can't get J&J, by order of the DGS itself.

[–]WikiSummarizerBot 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Directorate-General_of_Health

The Directorate-General of Health (Portuguese: Direção-Geral da Saúde; DGS) is a division of the Portuguese public administration concerned with public health. Even though it is statutorily a service of the Ministry of Health, it is a public agency with administrative autonomy. It was created in 1899, after a plague outbreak in Porto, in order to coordinate efforts and planning against future disease outbreaks and epidemics.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

[–]az226 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then they don’t give you the vaccine it seems. OP did ask for it.

That was my first reaction. Suredly it’s just that the default is J&J for men but they can get Moderna/Pfizer if they ask for it, but no. Those vile scum lied and said it was impossible.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck this is disgusting

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're a thousand times more likely to get a blood clot from birth control than from the JnJ vaccine.

Another notch on the bed post of prioritizing women's health and driving the life expectancy gap.

[–]ZangryGrapes 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If any portuguese men are reading this, stop working and go on strike.

[–]Men-Are-Human 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Mind if I use this as the basis for an article on https://menarehuman.com ?

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, no problem at all.

[–]Men-Are-Human 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you very much. I'll let you know when it goes up.

[–]Doogle89 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here are some things to consider:

1.Comparing efficacy rates isn't something you can really do. Each trial has taken place at different times in the pandemic (Different variables such as variants, lockdowns, infection rates)

  1. All vaccines approved by EU countries are effective at keeping you out of the hospital. Efficacy just measures if you catch the disease or not.

  2. I found this article that said there were rare bloodclot side effects that all affected women with the j&j https://www.healthline.com/health-news/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects-what-to-know

  3. Portugal likely have a limited supply of vaccines and must be strategic in order to vaccinate the most people.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. I have mentioned before, this is not just data from trials but also backed up by current real-world data. I have also included variant-specific data on Delta variant with multiple studies.
  2. Difference between hospitalization prevention is smaller but also present. That's not counting Delta variant however. Single doses have been ineffective at preventing hospitalization from Delta variant. Referring to Portugal in particular, in the recent Lisbon wave one third of ICU patients had a first dose already. J&J being a single-dose and the only approved shot without data on Delta variant efficacy (as well as lower efficacy overall of course) is precisely why concerns about it and Delta variant arose. In Portugal Delta variant is already 90% of all our infections.
  3. I addressed this in the post. Blood clot effects were extremely rare on both men and women. The data used here to justify it showed twice as many cases in women. However "twice as many" here is the difference between one in a million or two in a million. The EMA has recommended it for both men and women. Needless to say there will be a lot of men dying from the delta variant while having J&J than there would be women dying from blood clots if they took it.
  4. I don't call "women get protection, men get whatever is left" strategy. I call it sexism. It's "women and children first" all over again. Except that while feminists claim that "women and children first" mentality is perpetuated by men, this has been decided by two women, the minister of health and the general-director of DGS.

[–]loststylus -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am confused by this post as I am a male in this age group and I received a Pfizer shot. Was this rule adopted very recently?

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It was indeed adopted quite recently. The official statement from the DGS came mid-June but as usual there was probably a bit of delay between the statement and vaccination centres actually adopting it (as well as them handling the remaining stock of mRNA vaccines they had, etc.).

[–]loststylus 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That sucks.

Well, I hope I will at least receive a proper booster. Had the first shot last week.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In that regard you're safe. If you received a first dose of Pfizer you're guaranteed of getting Pfizer on your second dose.

Btw out of curiosity, where did you take it? My case happened in Porto.

[–]loststylus 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had mine in Lisbon

[–]Positive-Guidance-99 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well in Portugal they’re a lot more concerned about women than they are about men, because it’s a very different culture I don’t think this is as much of a big deal as we are making it _[]_/ I know you motherfuckers are going to come for me too

[–]DubsPackage -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Joke's on them, the Pfizer vax gives heart palpitations, J&J seems to be the best one for relatively young and healthy guys.

That being said, Portugal is a poor country, they probably don't have much vaccine to go around so they're being strategic with the little supply they have.

Either way, J&J is the best one.

[–]940387 -4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, this sucks but realistically you will get the one there is in stock. If the have the others they have to give them away or they go bad. If it makes you feel better, if you're young, the difference in efficacy doesn't really matter all that much in reality.

[–]CookedCritter 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

fuck off, you’re part of the problem dickhead that’s clearly not the point

[–]carboonpn -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a lot of misinformation here. The delta variant is 85% effective with the J&J while the Pfizer and Moderna need a booster. Furthermore the storage and logistics with J&J is much better, however Pfizer availability is much more scarcer. You get the better vaccine but you see those percentages and think Pfizer is better. Don't be a crybaby.

J&J 85% effective against delta Pfizer and Moderna need boostersource

[–]Beautiful-City9956 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So I it sage to get the vaccine

[–]Conohoa 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice, I'm moving to Portugal

[–]BloodyUserOfNames 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]koiRitwikHai 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a very misguided post.

First of all, vaccine efficacy is not equal to its effectiveness. Source

Secondly, the post itself says that

Officially men in Portugal can be given the Janssen vaccine, but there is no official "men get this, women get that" rule. However such rule remains in practice in vaccination centers nonetheless.

So, state is not sponsoring this lack-of-choice. Case closed.

[–]TabulaRasa5678 -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I love how people don't want to eat GMO foods, but don't mind getting themselves genetically modified.

[–]TheSpaceDuck[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Assuming that is not a troll comment, that conspiracy theory has been debunked plenty of times.

[–]TabulaRasa5678 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not a troll, it's a hilarious hypocrisy.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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