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[–]newspaper_nerd 595 points596 points597 points 8 years ago (66 children) | Copy Link
I would like to see that graph updated with homelessness rate.
[–]Gileriodekel 53 points54 points55 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I made an updated version with homelessness and graduation rates. I also changed the colors to traditional gender colors. I also found different sources, and made them readable, and up them in a tiny url.
http://i.imgur.com/RlZYyuj.png
[–]save_the_rocks 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Re- child abusers here is a comment I made earlier in the year on the same statistics:
That source is dated to 2001. Here is a link to 2013 (latest published findings).
It shows a differential of about 10% nationally with some wider swings in specific states. Very through list by state, I recommend folks take a look and don't forget to check the 'unknown' gender numbers for each state. That might point to some methodology/data collection problems in certain localities.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/cm2013.pdf#page=86
Edit: Those numbers should probably be adjusted to account for single parent households (e.g. if men or women are more likely to be single parents than the opportunities for parental abuse would be greater for that gender). Of course, the problem of men gaining custody is an issue in how that comes to be, but the end result is that you would expect there to be some correlation.
Edit2: Maybe at the end of the day, men and women are both equally predisposed to treat children badly and that neither are inherently better or worse at parenting or being a part of civil society.
[–]polysyllabist 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
45% men /55% women for those who want a TLDR
(232k vs 278k)
[–]AkaviriDragon 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
. I also changed the colors to traditional gender colors. I also found different sources, and made them readable, and up them in a tiny
Erm, for simplification, could you make it clearer in the graph whether they are the victims of homicide or the perpetrators? easily misunderstood.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Assuming US data, the 2009-2013 stats are: 89.3% of murderers where the gender was known were male 77.7% of murder victims male (page only has 2013 data) fbi.gov
[–]polysyllabist 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It would be great if you could switch up the order of male / female text. Currently male text is on top, while the female graphic portion of the circle is on top. That juxtaposition makes assessing thing difficult at a glance.
Also, would be nice if you had the good things (like child custody and graduation) on one side, and bad things (like deaths) on the other. That way at a quick glance you can note the advantage one gender has, and the burden the other has.
[–]jay212127 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed the text/ring is confusing to look at first glance.
[–]LordNoodles 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I also changed the colors to traditional gender colors.
You monster!
[–]neTed 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why are the %bars inverted with the positions of the genders?
[–]Grumblefly 292 points293 points294 points 8 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
Also cancer death rates.
[–]Vornnash 301 points302 points303 points 8 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link
And cancer research funding for things like breasts vs prostates, etc.
[–]Busangod 172 points173 points174 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
and "and my axe" reference makers
[–]Tashre 82 points83 points84 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's a very common misconception that this is heavily biased toward men because many people seem to think female dwarves don't exist.
[–]pigeon_man 74 points75 points76 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
it's the beards.
[–]Its43 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You mean they don't sprout from holes in the ground?
[–]pigeon_man 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
they very well might.
[–]ElMorono 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tottally OT, but in one of Michael Crichton's novels, he wrote that the "female's beards rivaled the men, and, like their male counterparts, a thick beard on a female was considered a symbol of pride."
[–]Stryker000 47 points48 points49 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Off the top of my head, Breast cancer is very detectable and treatable, but they get a huge share of money from those pink ribbon days.
Prostate cancer, harder to detect and even if treated has lasting issues, but you cant sell anus ribbons can you....
[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
people generally die with prostate cancer, not because of it.
some people even advice not treating it at all considering how much the treatment negatively impacts one's quality of life and doesn't change life expectancy very much. (incontinence is a common complication as well as
it's a stupid cause to argue over.
to quote wikipedia: More than 80% of men will develop prostate cancer by the age of 80.[163] However, in the majority of cases, it will be slow-growing and harmless. In such men, diagnosing prostate cancer is overdiagnosis—the needless identification of a technically aberrant condition that will never harm the patient—and treatment in such men exposes them to all of the adverse effects, with no possibility of extending their lives.[164]
the same is completely not true for breast cancer. a positive test for a BRCA mutation is enough reason for some to remove both breasts and ovaries because of how risky it is.
breast cancer is also not a purely female issue, it just affects women more. the same mutation in a man is associated with a 1-6% chance of developing breast cancer by age 70.
[–]iongantas 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
much the treatment negatively impacts one's quality of life and doesn't change life expectancy very much
<Morpheus> What if I told you, that's because they haven't researched it as much </Morpheus>
[–]Sanguifer -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What if I told You it's because treating cancer always impacts one's quality of life due to the nature of the treatment, regardless of the type of cancer.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Per death due to it each, breast cancer gets several times more funding still.
[–]Frankie_Carbone 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
BRCA testing has currently not shown any added mortality benefit in those tested. Women with a family history are greater benefited by tamoxifen and regular mammography.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
bizarre. I wonder why that happens.
[–]rixuraxu 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are certainly clubs where you could make a lot of money selling anus ribbons
[–]FishInTheTrees 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I guess you can
[–]highspeed_lowdrag2 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Wow it is currently Testicular Cancer awareness month.
[–]Wehunt 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So much for awareness. Am i right?
[–]hoobert01 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmm, time to start handing out zebra striped ribbons to anti-vaxxers.
[–]99639 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Prostate is harder to detect and less able to be treated in part because it has received less funding and research.... Self fulfilling prophecy.
[–]Gnometard 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've always wondered WHY THE FUCK football players (You know, all guys) wear pink all the time for killer titties. I think prostate cancer is a little more relevant to the players and the majority of the audience.
[–]thea252 -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
1 in 8 women get breast cancer and it's a top killer. Prostrate cancer is something you die with usually, not something you die from.
Obviously, there's outliers, but it makes sense why breast cancer receives more funding.
[–]timoppenheimer 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
1 in 8 women get breast cancer and it's a top killer.
Cancer is a leading cause of death for men. It is responsible for 24% of all male deaths. http://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2011/LCODrace_ethnicityMen2011.pdf
Prostate cancer is the #2 leading cause of cancer deaths in men. http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/data/men.htm
Prostate cancer is both common and deadly. Although many men survive it, this is no comfort for the men who die of prostate cancer. More research funding could (and likely would, as it does with most other diseases, eventually, INCLUDING BREAST CANCER) lead to better treatment for men who would otherwise die of prostate cancer.
[–]delusionalLnightLong 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Have you ever seen a "Women's..." department in a hospital? There are shitloads of them, for things that obviously don't only affect women.
Have you ever seen a "Men's..." anything of any kind department in a hospital?
There is more to this than just comparing two types of cancer.
[–]LordOfDemise -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Can I get some examples? I spend basically 0 time at hospitals
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
1 in 8 may get breast cancer, but breast cancer accounts for about 3.5% of female deaths, while prostate cancer comprises about 3% of male deaths.
[–]thea252 -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, when they're 80.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Prostate cancer is the 6th leading cause of death for men. Breast cancer is the 8th leading cause for women.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also doctors that treat cancer and scientists that make anti-cancer medicine.
[–]Knight-of-Black 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also college acceptance and graduation rates.
[–]humanmeat 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also 99% of total Autoerotic Asphyxiation deaths
[–]Francois_Rapiste -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That one wouldn't entirely be society's fault. It's possible that the male body has a few organs that are susceptible to cancer.
Like the prostate. It is society's fault that funding for research of that is underfunded, but part of the cancer death rates could be accounted for by the biological reality that we have to begin with.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's possible that the male body has a few organs that are susceptible to cancer.
Nope. That's ridiculous, all organs and tissues are susceptible to cancer.
Men get more cancer than women.
Women-only cancers just get more attention, because, they're women.
[–]Francois_Rapiste 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
... I was trying to say that certain male organs are extra susceptible. Like the prostate. Which is.
So part of the higher cancer death rates would be the fact that we can get prostate cancer in the first place, which is deadlier than breast cancer. The other part is that prostate cancer is underfunded, exacerbating said problem.
[–]jchapstick -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
worse lifestyle, worse healthcare seeking rates
[–]lilypons 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Also homicide spelled correctly.
[–]Tracker18o 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
nah, we're talking about the diversity of homocide: the natural death from homosexuality.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]fireysaje 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I wonder why.
[–]agdzietam 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And I wonder why people thought I was serious, considering what I was responding to.
[–]Tom_The_Human 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd like to have one showing the disparity between likelihood to be taken to court, sentenced, and sentencing time for the same crime.
[–]stoawayaccount 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And maybe a chart showing how men and woman are sentenced for the same crimes. Years served and what not.
[+]Lechateau -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Or check the percentage of combat deaths per gender instead of the total, how many of the homicide deaths are caused by same gender and suicide rates per sexual orientation.
This is very disingenuous and masks real problems.
[–]elwahrio 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's a satire of the male privilege rhetoric that we are all shamed by regularly. The dialogue it is mocking is disingenuous, hence why this is as well.
[+]Lechateau -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well but it is inaccurate. This would be the same as claiming wage gap for women.
I am not sure if you tally combat deaths per gender numbers if there will that gap.
If the homicides are caused by other man how is this a mensrights issue and not a humans rights issue.
Or if the suicide rates are related to men's inequalities (I am pretty sure that sexuality issues are pretty up high which would make it a lgbtq problem )
I know sand in the eyes feels better but this just looks like a fucking Facebook click bait post
[–]Faalentijn 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No fun allowed
[+]Lechateau -17 points-16 points-15 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Or tag it with satire instead of awareness.
ROFL, then people complain of not being taken seriously.
[–]SideTraKd -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
None of this matters, because we all know all of these problems are because PATRIARCHY!
/s
EDIT: Please tell me that all of you are smart enough to know that the SJW crowd would blame every single one of these problems on " The PatriarchyTM ", and that they'd do it with a straight face.
[–]GoodRedd -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
High res version:
http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/June-14-2014-03-53-04-image.jpg
[–]RogerGoiano -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also kick on the nuts rates
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]skatermario3 129 points130 points131 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
dad*
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Goggleplaythingy 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Dead beat dad
[–]Tashre 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Daddy didn't love me!
[–]TittilateMyTasteBuds 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Enough of that jazz
Asshole, absinthe up in that glass
[–]m3Zephyr 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But at the same time, he's not wrong
[–]cpt_bebop 68 points69 points70 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As a dad that won custody, it's amazing how much the system really is fucked. 7 months, 15000 bucks, all to prove that my ex kidnapped my son and was holding him up 2000 miles away in a state that grants mom custody until proven in court.
[–]PutPutDingDing 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Glad to hear one of us dads made out ok, that's fantastic. I spent over 15 grand after I came home to an empty house too..and I didn't win. Was a very dark time having to go through it. The family court system is horrendous.
[–]thea252 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Tim?
[–]combatrex 83 points84 points85 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Homocide?
[–]Roeratt 45 points46 points47 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Murder followed by stashing the body in the closet.
[–]bat_mayn 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The San Francisco branch of the Federal Bureau of Investigation of fabulous murder
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]HappyVlane 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's homicide.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]HappyVlane 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know that you edited your post, so lying is pointless.
[–]atanok 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Homocide victims? People killed by someone of the same sex?
[–][deleted] 70 points71 points72 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Well I mean it's just de facto that way more men joined the military and industrial jobs than women making it much more common to see men with the deaths
[–]delusionalLnightLong 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But how many of these men basically had no other choice?
You can't possibly believe that everyone gets the job they want.
We may not have it as bad in this country, but bargaining power is bargaining power, and options are limited. The same way that a child technically has a "choice" to work in a sweatshop for 16 hours a day or to be a street urchin.
[–]thea252 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And the rules of combat are made by men... As a female vet, we volunteer to go out.
[–]delusionalLnightLong 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
When's the last time you voted for a woman?
[–]thea252 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There hasn't been a female candidate that I liked. I would vote for Elizabeth Warren.
[–]delusionalLnightLong -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Then write one in.
But yeah, I already know that you've never voted for a woman.
What is your point anyway? Isn't that like saying that because some women slut shame other women, that slut shaming is not actually a problem that feminists should care about?
[–]magnora7 -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men oppressing men, the same way it's always been
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]vankorgan 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Well, women actually weren't allowed in combat positions until recently. So that one's kind of skewed.
[–]vankorgan 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They're still not allowed in infantry positions...
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women made up 11% of those stationed in the Middle East/Afghanistan and comprise less than 2% of deaths.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]vankorgan 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
You know feminists are still fighting for women in combat roles right? Actually a really good explanation for this type of thinking came from /u/dennis-moore
A way I think of it is that society sometimes treats women like they are children. From an outsider's perspective it must look like children are pretty privileged, right? They're not expected to have agency, they have fewer responsibilities, people do things for them all the time, and so on. Sounds like the life, right? Except, of course, nobody wants to live like a child. Responsibility, agency, power, things that we deny oppressed groups, are all awesome to have, even though sometimes they feel like a burden. Sometimes that weight is glorious. It can make you feel whole or alive. Anyway, I just think that you'll find that a lot of things about being a woman that seem nice- less expectation to take initiative, fewer official responsibilities assigned, expecting less in important areas- aren't really nice to have at all. They're things children have, and they're imposed, not privileges.
[–]Dennis-Moore 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
:')
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Except when people push for women to have sovereignty without commensurate responsibility, then it's still not agency.
Agency isn't just sovereignty or responsibility. It's both.
[–]teruma 129 points130 points131 points 8 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link
Im all for mens rights, but these graphs are oversimplifications of more complex metrics and leave out information that puts everything in prospective.
I'm not at all suggesting the point isnt valid, but I do think the infographic doesnt do much to support it.
Edit: spelling error
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's more to indict the idea that privilege is so simple as looking at the top of the heap.
It's meant to raise questions about privilege.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No it's not... This is the same bullshit feminists say when you disprove their point (accuracy doesn't matter, we're proving a point!). The fact of the matter is that most of these statistics are being misused.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In what way are they being misused?
No claim as to why the statistics result in the way they do is claimed by OP.
Unlike feminists, who conclude it's due to discrimination or inherent to culture/patriarchy.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree with the sentiment, but as a polemic, this is very effective. These are exactly the same kinds of graphs that feminists use. I identify as a feminist myself, but I have to groan every time I see a 'wage gap' graph/post/video on facebook (which is quite literally almost everyday) when there is legislation in place that guarantees equal pay for equal work. I have never, for instance, worked in a job where I made a higher hourly wage than the women I worked with, but I HAVE worked in a job where I outproduced the women I worked with and got the same pay (so I was actually paid less per part I made than the women I worked with).
As you point out very accurately, these percentages are a gross oversimplification of of complex issues. For me, it works as a contrast to the 'feminist' dialogues that rely on similar stats and finger pointing to reinforcement this notion of 'male privilege' that utterly fails to take into account issue like race and class. I am a white male, and people say I am privileged, and while I do agree that there are instances where these categories are beneficial, I am also a member of the working class, and as such, have any number of financial barriers that I have to face. I have a Master's degree which I had to go into massive debt to secure, and I don't have prescription or dental coverage. Am I privileged? To a degree, but I don't need a woman from an affluent family who has dental coverage and never had to pay a dime for school, and wear's a t-shirt made in a sweatshop that exploits women that reads "This is what a feminist looks like' telling me that I'm privileged.
To me, this is just challenging that narrative that some take where they lump men together and say they are all privileged and site stats that were cherry picked and not placed in context.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm also confused by adding the one in the bottom, seems unrelated
[–]throwrocsatmetal 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i feel like it's trying to point out that it's unfair the risks we have vs how often we get to keep the kids, but honestly it just made me realize I'm probably likelier to die than the mother of my child.
[–]MonkeyHope 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Wanted to say this, couldn't sum it up as well.
The custody and suicide numbers are disconcerting, but military/industrial deaths can be explained by a skewed gender ratio in the workforce, and homicide victims is nonsensical without breaking it down at least into xonx xony yony and yonx subgroups.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Because 76% of murder victims are men, and 90% of murders are commited by men. So a woman being more likely to be killed by a man than a man is to be killed by a woman, might not be a right you want to fight for.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Those aren't the statistics for death in war(except maybe gang). Those are for the US in the civilian population. The issues are drinking, drugs, gangs and guns.
I'm not pro-gun, but I'm also not American, so I wouldn't get a say in that anyway, the US has 4.7 times more murders each year than the UK (proportionately). But we have more violent crime of other kinds, probably due to the fact that if you snap here, you probably don't have a gun on hand.
The war thing is also an issue, I agree, but the US army isn't particularly welcoming to women and you'd have to encourage a different fitness in women, otherwise they wouldn't pass the tests. 15% of female veterans reported military sexual trauma, and those reporting it were 4 times more likely to have PTSD. Even assuming a false report of 10%, which is generous, that's still 13.5% reporting sexual trauma(not necessarily from US soldiers). There was also something a while back about involuntarily discharging assault victims.
13% of male recruits reported a 'successful rape' and 2% had attempted but failed to rape someone before entering the navy after the age of 14 when anonymous. When identified 12% of men reported having attempted/successfully raped someone. Also the US army pardons felons to let them into the army sometimes.
[–]MonkeyHope -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I guess my thought was that if you had a breakdown and found that the 76% was predominantly male on male, you could argue that this isn't a men vs women debate, this in an internal problem that men need to deal with outside the men's/women's rights debates. I'm not sure if that makes sense, it was just a quick gut assessment of what seemed off about the infographic.
[–]AkaviriDragon 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Such as...? But you're right, I much prefer an equally well researched blog post that you can't show to people to raise awareness because they don't want to spend 30 minutes reading something they could read in a 30 second graph that includes sources for those who want to know more.
oh wait, no I don't.
[–]keeead 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, i struggle with things like this. Because when women do it it only serves to divide and self victimize, and it's kind of gross. And for men to do it, is just playing that same game. But on the other hand, those that play dirty, seem to be winning. So I don't know. I'd rather focus on issues effecting people, not making them about gender.
[–]Dnile1000BC 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
leave out information that puts everything in prospective.
Just like the 77c wage gap stats right?
[–]CountBubs 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Two wrongs don't make a right. They're both flawed arguements
[–]Dnile1000BC 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yet one is promoted heavily by politicians, education establishments and the media and the other is blatantly ignored.
Do you see the problem here?
[–]CountBubs 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying it's fair, but if we're just going to cherry-pick facts and give half truths than we're no better than feminists who do the same.
[–]teruma 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thats another example of the same issue, yes.
[–]WhomAreU -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's kind of like saying "women make $0.77 to men's $1" and then stopping there. Feminists seem to be just fine with the simple statement and no supporting facts.
[–]Wargame4life 214 points215 points216 points 8 years ago (60 children) | Copy Link
3% of combat deaths are women jesus christ we need to do more to protect and help violence against women, remember HEforSHE!!!! women are primary victims of combat deaths,because they are a statistical minority, and with being a minority they are hence oppressed by being a minority.
cake sale against women combat deaths at 11:00pm lets end injustice
[–][deleted] 153 points154 points155 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Cakes for women: $0.03
Cakes for men: $0.97
[–]Sapphireonice 91 points92 points93 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
tbh it's probably going to be more like this:
Cakes for women: $0.77 Cakes for men: $1
coz womyn maek 77 cents to every $$$$ a man makes so it's 200% fair amirite
[–]SpindlySpiders 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
An enterprising woman might be able to make some profit here. Arbitrage, anyone?
[–]Tashre 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
An enterprising trans person could make more. Discrimination, anyone?
[–]AkaviriDragon 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've actually thought about how to screw people doing this. if the cakes are any good, have a woman purchase the cakes at 77 cents, host your own cake stand, then sell them to men lower than 1$. Capitalism, Oh!
[–]Wargame4life 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol brilliant, im annoyed i didn't think of that
[–]DyJoGu 99 points100 points101 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Remember
"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." -Hillary Clinton
[–]fellowfiend 59 points60 points61 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Said fathers also lose their own lives, their sons, daughters, wives, and any fucking body else they knew. At least the wife is still alive. That quote is bullshit.
[–]alphawolf29 43 points44 points45 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Not to mention men also lose fathers, sons, brothers and possibly husbands in war too.
[–]fellowfiend 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Men lose everything, women possibly lose only a son/husband. They can move on with their lives afterwards.
Edit: war is torture, even if the man lives they loose limbs, have health problems, get PTSD. What do women get? Sadness because their husband is gone, which is healed by time.
[–]alphawolf29 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I didn't mean because they die, I mean that the statement implies a a woman losing a son or a father is somehow more impactful than a man losing his son or father. I said possibly husbands because its possible for gay men to lose their husbands in war.
[–]fellowfiend -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well my statement was supposed to contradict the quote, not your statement. I was actually kind of agreeing with you.
[–]WillWorkForLTC 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Their sadness is healed much more effectively by time than any war related injury that's for sure.
And they get pounded by scumbags while the man is blown up in a hole.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
There's your future president.
[–]fellowfiend 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm looking forward to having a woman president, but I hope it's not someone stupid enough to make a comment like that. I guess it's that society and especially the women population want a woman to lead but not enough smart women are going for the role, so we're kinda rushing and any woman with influence (in this Hilary Clinton) would be accepted (or at least they would run). Basically we want this thing (woman president) but since we don't have much options we would take anyone with any sort of (for the lack of a better word) infamy.
Or It's all orchestrated anyway. All they need is someone popular enough to appear legitimate, who will tow the line. Obama is a perfect example. Whoever is the most useful pawn wins the election. But that's probably crazy talk.
[–]DrapeRape 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
So the people women (explicitly) that don't go to war are the victims, not the men (and women, btw) that actually die overseas.
Ok, Hilary. Ok.
ಠ_ಠ
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And since they aren't killed they have the luxury of those experiences. Where as men get turned into mulch. So kinda hard to focus on their losses. Yup the real victims, at home safe in their pjs.
[–]McSpoon202 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was about to say primarily living victims, but this still makes no sense
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I just can't justify that with a response.
[–]marswithrings 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
last time i brought up combat deaths the feminists said "well duh women aren't allowed on the front lines"
...so are you saying because you know the cause, it isn't a problem, then? next time you bring up the wage gap can i just say "well duh, women pick careers in less lucrative fields" and end the argument?
of course not, they wouldn't accept that as a fair dismissal of the wage gap problem. which is especially ironic considering their wage gap statistic is false in the first place and their own logic still doesn't weigh against it like it weighs against this very real statistic of men dying instead of just being paid less. the doublethink required for this breaks my mind
[–]Kestyr 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
the feminists said "well duh women aren't allowed on the front lines"
Then they try and waive physical standards and lower them to get more women there. It's all a big fucking showcase for them.
[–]thea252 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Men made the rules. Men decided not to allow women in combat. Women have been fighting ever since to be allowed in the same billets. You can ban women in combat roles then point out how sexist it is that less women are KIA.
[–]delusionalLnightLong 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So any issue that is ever perpetuated by women is not actually an issue for women, it simply ceases to exist?
And the men you speak of are men that were voted in by women.
[–]marswithrings 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"men made the rules" is just about the worst argument for anything related to the "patriarchy" i've ever heard.
when i meet a feminist who feels she would be well-represented if michelle bachman or sarah palin was elected president of the united states, i might reconsider that stance. but i think sharing a gender with government leaders does absolutely nothing to imply that a citizen agrees with or consents to any of the laws made by their governing body.
Except you still can, it's still an advantage women have over men
[–]thea252 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Men made the rules baring women from combat...
And? It's still a privilege women have
[–]GenderNeutralLanguag 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Combat deaths speaks to how great it is to be male. You know, the government can kidnap you at gun point, ship you off to some God forsaken hell hole to participate in their Kill or be Killed blood sport. Why would any one not call that "an unearned benifit of being male"
[–]FuLLMeTaL604 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You know, the government can kidnap you at gun point
Not in the US, Canada, etc. In Israel men and women have to serve.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]FuLLMeTaL604 -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Vietnam was a long time ago. I don't believe there has been a draft since then so if we are talking present tense then no, the US does not have mandatory enlistment.
[–]DrapeRape 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes it does. If you're a male, then when you turn 18 you are required to enlist for the draft. It's a felony to not enlist for it.
[–]dexmonic 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, it does. The government can, at any time, require all males over the age of 18 who are healthy enough to do it, to enlist in military service. It's called selective service, look it up.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And women don't have to serve as long, and have more options to be exempt.
[–]trahloc 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're required to sign up for selective service in the USA. Yes, the draft hasn't been enacted since Vietnam but the level of stress of signing that piece of paper is difficult for me to describe. It was so strong I almost signed up for military service so that at least I chose to be there. If all you can choose is shit, might as well opt for the shit burger. A friends dad thankfully talked me out of it.
[–]FuLLMeTaL604 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
TIL. We don't have anything like that in Canada.
The majority of hours worked are also worked by men.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Women are the primary victims when men are killed because they lose their financial support.
Women are also the primary victims when they are killed because they're dead you insensitive asshole!
100% of victims of war are women.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And some lower lifeforms known as men. But whose counting.
[–]vankorgan 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
You know they're not allowed right? We don't really get to bitch about this one when feminists keep trying to get women in combat roles and many men keep stopping them...
they're not allowed right?
The ban has been lifted.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Last I checked they can be combat pilots.
What percentage of KIA pilots are women?
[–]vankorgan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't know where one might find that info. If anybody's got figures on this I'd love to see them.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's hard to get much, but there's this[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_combat_losses_of_United_States_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War) and this, with 2 female pilots killed in action and 1 female aircrew killed according to the latter.
Gender neutral policy started officially in 1991, but not really defacto until 1992-3. The death of Kate Hulgreen in 1994 due to several pilot errors and leaked information about favoritism through flight school increased scrutiny about the program, but if we look at these number of incidents since 1991(and when not identified and before 1994 we can assume they are male, afterward we discount them from the sample/distinguish as unidentified) we get:
28 incidents from 1991 to 1999. 27 KIA, 17 MIA/captured, 6 injured/crashed in friendly/neutral territory. All male including those after 1994.
For after 1999 we can look at the war in Afghanistan and the Iraq War
However they do not make any distinctions for the sex of crew members on board, using marines/soldiers only tells us that they were part of the marines or army, respectively. I'm counting all US military deaths from these lists and am already up to 91.
Nonetheless if we took those 3 female pilots/aircrew as an example, and remember that although women were 11% of those stationed in Afghanistan/Iraq but ~2% of fatalities(many of which are not combat related but are due to accidents/equipment failure or internal conflict/suicide), along with being about 2-3% of pilots it seems pretty clear that women are still quite underrepresented among the sectors of the military that they can be a part of.
[–]vankorgan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks man.
[–]pajamajoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I dont know any men that are trying to stop it. I however know a shit ton of men, myself included, that are completely against lowering and changing standards for the women so that they can join and we can celebrate a "great victory for women kind".
[–]vankorgan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Have you served with women?
[–]pajamajoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes I have, why?
[–]vankorgan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Because the women I've met who've served were completely against lowering the standards.
Edit: grammar
[–]pajamajoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be clear it isn't necessarily the women who are currently serving that are the problem with standards. Specifically since you don't really have a voice as a soldier. It is the people outside that allow the women who recently failed the Ranger program and infantry programs to get a "pass". As it is women have lower standards in the military already, now as an effort to get women into combat positions they are looking at dropping additional standards.
[–]Wargame4life -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
that wasnt really the point of my comment combat deaths was the largest most extreme disparity
[–]SigmaK78 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Know what?
I fought for custody of my son and got it. Why? Because his mother was an addict and I had more than enough evidence. And I STILL went through hell to get that done. It was worth it, and honestly giving a nice big FUCK YOU to the double standard in the system was extremely satisfying.
As a combat vet, If a woman can physically and mentally handle the job on the front line, let her. To me, it's one of the truest test of equality. And I do know women who will fight and die. Some of them I would trust to watch my back.
Yes, men kill themselves at a disturbingly higher rate than women. Why?
BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T BULLSHITTING WHEN THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO DIE!!!
How many times are men told to suck it up? Get over it? Man up? Stop being weak? What are women being told? In this case, the male privilege is to have little to no outlets to deal with issues, meanwhile women have the privilege of being reminded that since biologically they're more valuable than men, then society must ensure they have as many outlets as possible. Just claiming you tried to kill yourself counts as attempted suicide, so I'm sick of feminist even trying to argue this one. At times, I seriously question if feminist even give a shit. Because despite what feminist claim, they're just as much apart of the problem.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How many times are men told to suck it up? Get over it? Man up? Stop being weak?
This is probably the single best comment in MRA this year.
As a feminist, and a woman, I believe that gender issues affect both sexes.
You are absolutely right that men face the "man up" thing from boyhood. I can't imagine how hard that must be.
I find these comparisons between men and women and their struggles so troubling. Until we unite on this issue and just let people be whoever the fuck they want to be, gender equality will not exist.
[–]Ventorpoe 66 points67 points68 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I love a good ol' cherry picking.
Yeah... this numbers are as insightful as the 'women make 73 cents for every dollar a man makes' arguments.
[+]Arby01 -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
fire with fire
[–]Ventorpoe 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
More like poo with poo.
[–]Ribbons_McGee 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Or stupid with stupid.
[–]itisalltoomuch 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No kidding, it's things like these that stop people from taking men's rights and feminism seriously
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ventorpoe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Why would I cry over something I love? I love a good ol' cherry picking.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ventorpoe -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
No I'm not... I hate those stupid pigs just as much as 'men's rights' bullshit.
I guess anyone dumb enough to believe in men's rights or feminists is stupid as fuck.
[–]Ventorpoe -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You're a fucking moron.
[–]OOAH__MAN 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think he/she was triggered.
[–]mollywop 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
But doesn't this all come from the same source? We all participate in a flawed system. Men aren't allowed to show their emotions or talk about their feelings, and they're under pressure to be $uccessful providers. This may make them more susceptible to suicide. Women open up more and are able to show their feelings and talk to their support system, but these traits are seen as weak. Women are seen as more nurturing and made for baby making = society's bias in custody battles. But these same "rights" for both genders screw the other over. The same logic that says women are better at rearing children and celebrating their sensitivity and "softness" creates bias towards them in the working world. It means they don't get hired for those dangerous labor jobs or put on the front lines, while men are seen as less valuable and tough so they fill the spots. In GWS when learning about feminism, it was never "men have it better". It was how both men and women, you and me, participate in a system where these beliefs and biases screw both parties. Royally, in many cases. The first step is to be aware of your participation in this system to make changes in the right direction. If a women's rights subreddit exists, they could make a poster just as believable and rage inducing as this with different stats. I wish there was some mutual movement to bring everyone together...
[–]vankorgan 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This has got to be one of the better summations of the current system I've seen. It's not one hand benefits from the other, it's both being on either side of a flawed system.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
There is a reason why the vocabulary is the way it is. Why all the bogeymen allude to men and their nature (patriarchy, toxic masculinity, testosterone poisoning) while the force that fights these ghastly evils is feminism.
It isn't going to change simply because those terms are central to the ideology.
[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Hatred.
[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
conspiracy
Well, you seem to have decided that I subscribe to some conspiracy theory, so good faith is likely to be wasted on you.
Clearly, I meant hatred of boys and men by feminists.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]delusionalLnightLong 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
they don't get hired for those dangerous labor jobs
They don't try to get those jobs, generally. Most people don't want those jobs, but only certain people "get stuck" with them.
That's what you're missing. When sexism affects men, it often kills and maims them, or sends them to a jail cell.
[–]Hypnosomnia 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It means they don't get hired for those dangerous labor jobs
Any proof on this claim? While I'd speculate that someone who belongs to a minority (say, a woman working in a male dominated field or vice versa) could easily face discrimination, harrassing or bullying in the workplace, I don't think there's any proof that it's really harder for them to enter that field. Especially when we're talking about dangerous jobs.
I personally think that one should be careful with claims like this. If there's no solid evidence and the possible discrimination is only assumed, one might nullify the agency of a group of people.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Women are seen as more nurturing and made for baby making = society's bias in custody battles.
Wrong.
Title-IV D is why. The state and local governments get federal money for enforcing child support, and the more that is owed the more they get. Since child support is based on income this incentivizes not only not granting joint custody but also granting custody to the lower earner.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I go into a bit more detail how here
it was never "men have it better"
That is blatantly disingenuous. If this was true there wouldn't have been legislation and practices in the legal, political and education system specifically enacted against men (regardless of background). The media would not constantly be portraying men in a negative light despite the fact saying otherwise. All pushed by leading feminist organisations, politicians and academics.
This is another attempt of "defining" patriarchy. No thanks.
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Both moments are two sides of the same coin; if feminists were less anti-male and more accepting of male issues, we'd all get a lot more done.
[–]azithel 30 points31 points32 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
+1 for sources listed directly
[–]treefitty350 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No wonder no men are getting custody, they're all dying.
[–]jubili 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Surely more women would kill themselves if only they felt empowered enough to do so.
[–]schrodingerspenguin 45 points46 points47 points 8 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
In terms of suicides, men have higher rates because they often choose more lethal methods than women, like a gun or hanging, that unfortunately complete the act.
I'm not sure about the rates of attempted suicide in each gender, and have no clue how close or far that might be. I just wish the choice of lethal methods weren't the case so that more men would survive to receive the help and support they need.
[+][deleted] 8 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]T650E35[🍰] 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well if you failed you get a chance to try again. That alone will double the attempt rate.
[–]PlatinumBench 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I can get you the source but I believe that after someone has attempted and gotten help, the chance of them reattempting to commit suicide is lowered by something like 90%.
Not everyone gets help, and unless it everyone gets help and it reduces recurrence by 100% the attempt rate will have nonzero multiple attempts by the same individual.
[–]T650E35[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's an impressive improvement. I would have guessed 40-60% for people receiving treatment. I don't really keep up on suicide stats.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
There is a difference between genuine failed suicide attempts and "cries for help" though, these are generally much higher in women.
[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Source?
[–]tragedyfish 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Well, it's wikipedia but...
Edit: Though, this is really just supporting higher attempt rates in females, not that these attempts are merely cries for help.
[–]autowikibot 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gender differences in suicide:
Gender differences in suicide rates have been shown to be significant; there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicides between males and females. The gap, also called the "gender paradox of suicidal behavior", can vary significantly among different countries. Statistics indicate that males die by suicide more frequently than do females; however, reported suicide attempts and suicidal ideation are more common among females. Image i
Gender differences in suicide rates have been shown to be significant; there are highly asymmetric rates of attempted and completed suicides between males and females. The gap, also called the "gender paradox of suicidal behavior", can vary significantly among different countries. Statistics indicate that males die by suicide more frequently than do females; however, reported suicide attempts and suicidal ideation are more common among females.
Image i
Interesting: Suicide in Russia | Suicide epidemic | Murder–suicide | Suicide pact
Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words
[–]Vandredd 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
They are called cries for help. Pills almost never work.
[–]Vandredd 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/statistics-most-lethal-methods
Most of these cries for help happen with over the counter and prescription drugs which have a 12.3% and 6% chance of success. If you really trying to kill yourself, 87% and 94% survival rates are bad odds. These are cries for help and they usually work.
Only thing with worse odds is wrist cutting which is super popular with the crying for attention group.
[–]thepotatochronicles 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
In psychology I learned that men have higher suicide rates because they are more likely to go through the actual act of killing themselves, whereas women do not as much.
That stat is not really indicative of how depressed and desperate men or women are.
[–]schrodingerspenguin 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've learned that as well- the lethality of their attempts goes hand in hand with the act being completed. In graduate school, we try to consider how the symptoms may be unique to each person, including gender, culture, and everything else about a unique individual.
We take stats with a grain of salt that might be identifying an aspect of the problem, but are striving to help the problem as it relates to each person. Men have such a stigma for mental health assistance unfortunately.. Maybe I'm biased because I'm in the mental health field, but completing such a staggering percentage of suicides just by gender is terrifying. Its a huge red flag that more needs to be done to identify the warning signs in men.
[–]theskepticalidealist 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The mistake is in treating all "attempts" as legitimate attempted suicides when we don't know what ratio are 'cries for help'.
I remember debating someone twice (I think it was the same person actually) that argued that a "parasuicide" should be included in attempted suicide statistics, of women which women are the vast majority, in order to increase the dispairty between men and women even further. It's pretty crazy because we call it parasuicide when we have already decided it wasn't a genuine attempt to die. If women by far make more "cries for help" then it stands to reason that of the "attempted suicides", of which women outnumber men, many of those were not genuine either. That's not to say they didn't have important psychological issues, but it still isn't the same as someone who genuinely wants to die and they don't hold the same imminent risks.
[–]Vornnash 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Do women choose less lethal method because they are subconsciously seeking help? I mean, there are plenty of bridges in the world if you want to end it quick if your intent is clear.
[–]Gsanta1 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Less violent
[–]Vornnash -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Jumping off a bridge is violent? I suppose upon impact, but it's not like a gun.
[–]magnora7 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And maybe terrible at planning when emotional
[–]7i77y 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men are better at it.
[–]rottingchrist 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
It makes me wonder this: why are "attempts" even brought up?
Because of an inability to empathize with men among these people.
[–]mounty194 185 points186 points187 points 8 years ago (58 children) | Copy Link
Less women are put in the front lines. Not their fault, since it's male-derived policy.
Less women are raised toward working in industrial jobs.
Most men don't fight hard enough for custody, hence the skewed figure.
Men tend to be more likely involved in gang-related activities and violent crime.
Men use more effective means of suicide.
These figures mean nothing without context. While I was a marine, our male commanders didn't really let women be placed in harms way even though they wanted to see some action.
[–]kidion 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
also the number of men to women serving is a low ratio so that percentage would be lower anyway
[–]mounty194 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. We actually had a high number of females for my unit and they still barely made up 15% of the battalion.
[+]Litig8 -39 points-38 points-37 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Hi. I'm an attorney. You're wrong. Just because you want reality to be one way, doesn't mean it actually is.
[–]Themonkeylifter 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hi I'm a biologist and you seem to be composed of 96.2% bullshit.
Mr. Attorney! Thanks for joining. You got some facts n figures?
[–][deleted] 57 points58 points59 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
According to 20 years' worth of US DoJ data, men also account for over 90% of homicide perpetrators. Considering they're far less than 90% of homicide victims, murder rate by gender isn't such a raw deal.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And blacks are the majority of murder victims when the race is known and the majority of murderers when the race is known.
Guess there's no problems with violent victimization of blacks then, right?
I was being sarcastic.
[+]elwahrio -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Victim blame much?
[–]BaronOfBeanDip 33 points34 points35 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's really refreshing to see people challenging stuff on this sub recently, it started to really piss me off how sensationalist it was becoming. Great points.
[+]TracyMorganFreeman -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
They didn't actually dispute any of the points though.
[–]BaronOfBeanDip 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
They highlighted how potentially misleading and inaccurate they are, which I'd consider a dispute.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Pointing out reasons for them happening isn't showing they're misleading or inaccurate.
[–]BaronOfBeanDip 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's pointing out/justifying reasons for such an apparent bias, which the OP fails to do.... implying the OP is potentially misleading.
OP never claimed why it occurred.
[–]Litig8 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The funny part is that the entire image can be boiled down to things that men statistically CHOOSE to do to themselves and other men more than women, with perhaps the exception of combat deaths.
Are men being oppressed by men? Sounds horrible. Someone better stand up for these men.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
TIL conscription is voluntary.
[–]Tashre 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
None of those things sound like appealing privileges, honestly.
[–]Tovora 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I work in an industrial/manufacturing field, I was never raised towards it. Who raises their kids towards a certain type of job?
[–]TerryQ 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'd say it's less about raising men towards industry jobs and more about women being dissuaded from them.
[–]Tovora -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think it's a case of that, it's a matter of ability. I've met female welders, they're no different than men. However when it comes to jobs that require a lot of physical exertion, a lot women aren't up to the task or are unwilling. The women I've worked with in a physical role just flat out refuse because it's heavy and expect to keep their job. Men don't want to carry heavy shit either, but we're capable of it.
[–]RiotFlag 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hey, we're having a circlejerk over here!
[–]Indigoh 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women aren't required by law to sign up for the draft
This justifies whatever small wage gap it causes
Judges also think women are better at raising children
Yup.
The point of this infographic is to explain that men don't have it perfect and that women have privilage too.
[–]Wizuhd -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The point isn't that there's some conspiracy and women are all at fault here, the point is that there are very real problems facing men that just get swept under the rug as "you're men what could you complain about you have it the easiest."
You completely missed the point.
[–]delusionalLnightLong 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And women, the majority of voters, who don't have their franchisement threatened by disproportionate punishment for the same crimes and mandatory registration to the selective service, keep voting for men, even men who make these "male-derived" policies.
And they'll always have a safer option to fall back on, whereas men get stuck with shitty jobs that are dangerous and don't pay well all the time. Women don't even try to get dangerous jobs, whereas men probably try to get safer jobs all the time.
Most men don't fight hard enough for custody
Because their lawyers rightly tell them that they won't get it.
Well after they get screwed by the "justice system" enough times, they are left with little choice, among other issues that don't affect women as much.
Because it's not just a cry for help. They don't cry for help, because they know that no one wants to help them.
our male commanders didn't really let women be placed in harms way even though they wanted to see some action.
So what? I guess any problem that feminists have that is sometimes perpetuated by other women is not really a problem either, then.
[+]j3zuz00[S] -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
This what is wrong with society.... This only proves my point further. Society needs to change.
[–]absolutedesignz 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
And thus you and a solid number of feminists (a poisoned term by the third wave and extremists) are on the same fucking side.
Yet all I see from either side is whining.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
They disagree on the definition of power, oppression, and equality. They're not fighting for the same things. They using the same words to represent different ideas.
And then we have people like you who equivocate them which just stops all conversation or reconcilation.
[–]absolutedesignz -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
as opposed to this stupid fucking chart? Don't put this bullshit on me.
If you think the chart is some MRA treatise and not a tongue in cheek jab at the idea privilege is simplistic and one way, then you're not paying attention.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You're completely right, we should all be fighting for the same things, we're two sides of the same coin and both men's and women's issues can he tackled simultaneously. However the current situation is polarized because of the censorship that the radical feminists have imposed.
The biggest example that sticks out to me, because I witnessed it, were the talks about men's rights held at the University of Toronto. They were heavily protested, with most of the protestors waving signs about misogyny. The talks had absolutely nothing to do with being anti-women or even anti-feminism, and focused on statistics involving men, where men were the victims. I was actually scared as I walked into the lecture. The thing is if somebody were to ask me I would have to identify as a feminist, I do stand for better treatment for women in areas where they're disadvantaged. But as a male in today's society, at least in Toronto, it seems I'm not allowed to speak out about the injustices committed against my gender without being labelled a misogynist. To them it seems we're either with them or against them, but that's not how I nor any of the people I know in real life that support men's rights think. Images like this, in my opinion, are just trying to level the playing field using cold hard facts.
[–]absolutedesignz -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Honestly. Feminism and MRA (to a lesser extent IMO) are poisoned terms that attract the worst of the worst and leave the good people in the dust. This chart for instance showcases shit I've seen feminist speak about but is skewed as a FUCK WOMEN thing as opposed to an equality thing. Women have been publically fighting to be able to serve on equal terms as men. The suicide and homicide stats seem irrelevant too as women may be 24% of the victims but they are also killed by 90% men...what's the inverse of that? And what can be extrapolated by that.
It just seems when it comes to race or sex you must get a lot of people who can't see the forests for the trees. And only act like they want to see it.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree, but in real life it's far more damaging to identify as a men's rights activist than as a feminist. I would identify as both, and I seriously wish we could all just unite under the non-gender-biased term of egalitarian, but apparently suggesting even that is misogynistic too, as the foundation that held the talks was called Canadian Activists for Equality. I do have to disagree with the homicide statistic being irrelevant. In my opinion I'm much more concerned about who's the victim than who's the perpetrator. I don't care who's killing, it needs to stop either way. Unfortunately men are the major perpetrators, that much can't be argued against, but you can't extrapolate that to the average male and perpetuate the stereotype that we're all murderers and rapists because we're also the primary victims. Let me out it this way, if the primary perpetrators of violent or sexual crime were women, you wouldn't see me speaking out against women, you'd see me speaking out against the crime and trying to do something to stop the crime.
[+]absolutedesignz -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Honestly I'm fed up with these new age feminists. After #shirtgate I can't stand them.
Edit: let me expand on that with an anecdote.
I'm black and I grew up in the suburbs. Periodically through mostly high school someone would say or do something racial insensitive through ignorance or stupidity. So I'd take them aside and explain to them that what they did or said was kind of offensive and to please not do it again. In my experience this approach works unless you're dealing with a complete and utter asshole.
Shirtgate would be like me slamming my tray onto the cafeteria table. Drawing the attention of the entire room. Standing on the table. Shouting and pointing at the offender. And then going on to blame him as to why there are so few black kids at this school.
All I do at that point is make a complete fool of myself and anything I stood for becomes irrelevant.
Shirtgate bullied this man who just landed a fucking probe on a comet and those smug insensitive oversensitive assholes probably wrote congratulatory messages to each other.
Fuck them.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Huh?
If someone slits their wrists or downs some pills they can be saved.
Hanging yourself or eating 500gr of buckshot is less reversible.
Less women are put in the front lines. Not their fault, since it's male-derived policy
So why is a male-derived policy ok when men die, but not ok when it comes to many other things?
[–]mounty194 -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not, but I'm not blaming the male or female troops in either case, just their leadership.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fewer women are raised working toward being CEOs and politicians, or working overtime.
So much for the wage gap.
Maybe it has something to do with society not providing as much support for men as it does for women that they resort to it.
While I was a marine, our male commanders didn't really let women be placed in harms way even though they wanted to see some action.
But was perfectly willing to put men in harms way whether they wanted some action or not.
[+]yelnats25 -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha you're an idiot.
[–]djtofuu 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't forget men are more likely to get genetic mutations because they only need the off chance one x chromosome changes whereas women need both to mutate
[–]Siosaysevolve 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
For homicides in which the victim to offender relationship could be identified, 93 percent of female victims nationwide were murdered by a male they knew. Of the victims who knew their offenders, 62 percent were wives, common-law wives, ex-wives, or girlfriends of the offenders.
You're not more or less of a victim based on who victimized you.
You're not more murdered because someone you knew murdered you, and clearly since men are the majority of victims of homicide and mainly by strangers, being murdered by someone you know is less likely.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
can anyone site the sources please? I honestly can't see them.
It would help me a lot thxx
[–]double-happiness 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They are very hard to make out. I think I got one though:-
http://www.defense.gov/news/casualty.pdf
The link in the image is actually http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf, but for some reason it resolved to that url, must be a redirect I guess.
I read the first one as http://icasualties.org/OEF/female.aspx but it 404s.
Yes, all of these can be put in context to make them seem less severe. But so can most statistics claiming oppression of women. That's the point. Without context, you can make statistics say just about anything, but that doesn't mean they underline actually inequalities.
[–]Dr_Designo 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A friend of mine worked his ass off for 30 years building an international business. One day his wife of 25 years told him that she wanted a divorce and took his house, his kids, both of their vacation properties, half of his money, and got a monthly payment for life. She never worked a moment in the business. As long as this type of thing happens, there will never be equality.
[–]Sapphireonice 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Perhaps it's just that I spend waaaay too much time on Reddit, but I get the feeling I've seen this multiple times before in different shades. It's still very good, mind you, but part of me wishes that we could have another one with things like length of sentencing for similar crimes, no. of false rape cases etc.
[–]stop_stalking_me 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're probably thinking of this one, or maybe this one, and possibly this one.
I should probably go outside now.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
The prison sentences would be a good thing to see. Because it certainly feels women get much lighter times for things.
[–]Death2Milk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Don't men and women commit different types of crimes? Last time I checked Aileen Wuornos was given the death penalty for six charges of murder in the 1st degree.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
For the same crime women on average get lighter sentences, are less likely to be convicted, and are less likely to be prosecuted.
[–]Death2Milk 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
So female serial killers get lighter sentences?
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Male murders get on average 64% longer sentences than female murderers.
When limited to spousal homicide, the average sentence for a male murderer is 16 years compared to 6 for female.
[–]Death2Milk 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I asked about serial killers...
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Why did you ask specifically about serial killers?
[–]Death2Milk 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Because I was wondering if female serial killers get lighter death sentences...
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Women almost never get death sentences.
When we actually catch female serial killers society still makes excuses for them like they had a abusive childhood and they get lighter sentences, despite the fact that the standard profile for male serial killers is also one who was abused as a child.
Major crimes it's less p r event than with minor ones I believe
[–]Death2Milk -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It would be interesting to see the ratio of men killed by men to men killed by women.... or maybe women killed by men to women killed by women...
[–]vaselinepete 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd love it if just one of the many people who repost this could fix the damn spelling.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Maybe feminists have a point.
Male privilege isn't fair.
These privileges should be shared with women.
No doubt feminists will support default shared custody, quotas to get more women in to the most dangerous fields, and greater legal protections for men to cut down on their murder rate.
Yes?
[–]jackelfrink 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
No doubt feminists will support default shared custody
They did at one time. The National Organization for Women’s 1966 Statement of Purpose contained the following
Obviously this part was not included in the updated re-write of the Statement of Purpose in 1998.
They oppose joint custody laws, so that's basically lip service.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
They've kinda done a 180 on that.
Maybe they realized that being seen as the default caregiver actually gives women a lot of societal power.
[–]jackelfrink 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Er? Isnt that what I said? The last line of my post directly mentions that this was removed when the Statement of Purpose was re-written.
What exactly are you disagreeing with me over?
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I was agreeing with you.....
[–]redditorriot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is anyone else confused?
[–]tiajuanat 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It depends on which flavor of feminism. If you look at US history there are two "schools" of thought:
This poster, and Type 1 Feminism are the same sides of the same coin. I wish more people could see that.
[–]sincerely_ignatius 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
couldn't the idea (or something similar) that males are more aggressive explain more homicides, combat deaths, and custody?
And why does it make sense to link deaths to custody?
[–]magnora7 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Couldn't the idea that females aren't as good as directing and management explain why there are so few female CEOs and on average why they earn less?
[–]sincerely_ignatius -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
perhaps so. that's not on the chart though.
[–]magnora7 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Neither is yours. My point is that these corrections for gender imbalances need to be tit-for-tat, if they're going to be done
[–]sincerely_ignatius 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm not sure i understand your point. homicides, deaths, and custody are on the chart. i was asking what links them.
[–]sincerely_ignatius 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oh i see now.
except I didnt disagree with him, i was just asking why that's relevant. one note, he didnt say less intelligent, thats not the inverse of aggressive. He was saying their lack of aggression may result in their not getting promotions etc, which could very well be true.
But the problem is, suggesting the inverse would also be true, is irrelevant to understanding the chart. My suggestion of aggression was to try and find the logic tying all of these statistics together. Thats important because the chart is linking deaths and suicides, to custody (somehow) and implying there is inequality there. That just doesnt make sense.
As for making broad generalizations about whole genders from a few simple stats, I would agree its not a smart practice. But, genders are not the same. There are differences. Aggression i think is one of the fundamental, essential differences. also, I think its perhaps less generalist to suggest men are on average more aggressive than women, than it would be to suggest they have a lesser education.
[–]Ribbons_McGee 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Logic has been thrown out the window.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You don't need to be as aggressive when you can manipulate men into doing your dirty work for you.
Claim you're a victim of X as a woman and you are more able to have bystanders and police conduct violent for you.
what percentage of violence do you feel is because women have manipulated men? Also, how does that violence impact custody?
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Well laws are enforced by violence.
it took me a while to understand what you were saying but i think i get it now. correct me if im wrong, but youre saying that women, however their method, have had an impact on the enforcement of laws that have become biased against men, and so women win custody hearings more often?
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Title-IV D is largely what drives custody hearings, but it's no secret that a non-trivial amount of abuse claims are done so for leverage in family court.
To what degree that occurs varies considerably depending on how you break down the data and there's a lot of room for discussion there.
[–]sincerely_ignatius 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
hmm yes. this is a well constructed logic. I would think though, that while that percentage may be getting higher as we move gradually towards a more.. we can call it a PC culture... I would still think it has to be a minority %.
It probably is a minority %, but whether that's 5% or 45% it's hard to say.
Part of the problem is in an effort to stamp out abuse there's more protections and lowered standards of evidence so victims can get justice. Unfortunately that also makes the system more susceptible to abuse, which makes it harder to determine what that % is.
[–]idkmybffdrillorsmthn 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I just registered to say this. Maybe someone will read it? I don't know.
I'm a woman. I think that men and women have equal worth in society, so I don't know if that makes me a "feminist" or not. Your call. I've been lurking on Reddit for a few years, reading things like this infographic, reading stories from mostly men -- young and old -- on different Ask Reddit topics and other subreddits. In short, I agree with this. There are a lot of things in society (child custody, for example) that are completely unfairly set up against men. If someone (me, another guy, etc) tries to engage a conversation about this to another person (typically a woman, or one of my crazy feminazi friends), they will prattle on about the patriarchy, "cis-gender boring white guys", and use a bunch of shitty stereotypes to back up their reasoning. So, you get nowhere.
There are a lot of things that go on everyday that are unjust to men, women, children, different races, etc. Everyone's got something shitty that their "group" has to deal with. That's just the way it is. Unfortunately (and fortunately?), the Internet allows people from said groups to gather together and have a huge bitchfit over certain things. They can analyze things, come up with excuses.... think Tumblr feminists. They can easily come together, pick someone or a group of people to be an enemy, and bitch and moan about it forever instead of doing something to change it.
I don't want to do that. I have friends in my life who from all different places and all different types of people, so I appreciate the differences that someone brings to the table. Although my crazy feminist friends have said, "Men have it so easy"; "Men have been dominating long enough" "blahblahblah", that's not true at all. Why should the men of today pay for the things the men of the past did? Does a current generation really need to pay for the sins of their ancestors? No. I guess just keep on keepin' on. You've got one supporter here.
[–]ZapActions-dower -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They can easily come together, pick someone or a group of people to be an enemy, and bitch and moan about it forever instead of doing something to change it.
Unfortunately, that's most of what I've seen here.
*homicide
[–]srtor 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sticky post this. Everyone should see this.
[–]j3zuz00[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Higher Quality
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
any now someone please shoop that "homocide".
[–]Doriphor 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is homocide what I think it is or is it misspelled?
[–]CosmicCatLady 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Woman here, and this graph makes me sad, very much so about the custody part. There are so many great fathers out there!
[–]Zer0flames 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Jesus fucking Christ, Reddit. How does horseshit like this keep making it onto /r/all?
[–]lt_kangaroo 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You get what r/all is right? It's literally in the title.
[–]Miner_Guyer 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
What's wrong with it?
[–]firedroplet 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
The statistics themselves are true...but they aren't given with context. Basically, the "Men's Rights" argument is that men are the ones who are truly discriminated against, not women.
These statistics look bad, and they're all true. But this says nothing of the position that women have in society, or why some of these statistics are the way they are. Other comments have addressed some of these, but basically:
One thing I think people forget is that sexism goes both ways. The same notions that a man is tougher and should be bringing home the bread will put him in harm's way more, but also confine a woman at home.
tl;dr: Unnuanced infographic fails to accurately express sexism's effect on society and what gender roles portend for us.
[–]Dnile1000BC 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The statistics themselves are true...but they aren't given with context
You mean like the 77c pay gap?
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Basically, the "Men's Rights" argument is that men are the ones who are truly discriminated against, not women.
You added/made up the "truly" bit. MRAs believe women can and are discriminated against, but that discrimination against males tends to be ignored, downplayed, or explained away.
Combat deaths go to men because sexism prevents women from serving in the same capacity. (Women are viewed as too fragile, etc.)
That policy ended in 2013.
Homicide is largely between two warring parties.
[Citation needed]
Men, being statistically more likely to be involved in violence, end up killing and being killed more.
And why is that? Could it be because male criminals are not rehabilitated in the same way that women are? Could it be that men are more likely to experience economic hardship and/or homelessness? You're guilty of the same lack of context you're accusing MRAs of.
Men are more likely to be industry workers, and thus more likely to die there. (Again, women are seen as too fragile/their place is in the home.)
And, as most men in a mixed gender warehouse/heavy-lifting environment will tell you, when women ask why they're treated like fragile snowflakes and not doing the hard work, we offer to let them do the heavy lifting. Their typical response? No thanks. So it seems to me that you're blaming the actions and career choices of females on men. Females have moral agency, they can decide to do hard work. It's not the 50s anymore. It's not Saudi Arabia. Stop the hyperbole.
Men use more effective means to kill themselves. Females have more attempts. Not exactly sure what this says about gender.
Why? Why do men want to kill themselves more? Why are there "Women-only" Stress Centers at the nearby Psychiatric Hospital in my hometown, but not ones specializing in men/male issues? Ask the contextual questions that you're accusing others of not asking.
Custody is an interesting one. Lots of arguments why this goes to women over men. I definitely think a component is the sexism. (Women are gentler, etc.)
Or the sexist notion that fathers are more violent towards offspring, which doesn't actually appear to be true. Stats being posted in these comments show the opposite.
The same notions that a man is tougher and should be bringing home the bread will put him in harm's way more, but also confine a woman at home.
Not necessarily- lots of gender-specific sexism exists in partial or complete isolation. So true in some cases, but not in others.
[–]Meistermalkav 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's allmost as if "Patriarchy" is just an invented boogeyman to get the eyes away from the real problem...
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
argument is that men are the ones who are truly discriminated against, not women.
Or they both are and in different ways, but we only focus on one.
[–]redditorriot 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One thing I think people forget is that sexism goes both ways.
Actually, you'll find that's the whole fucking problem we're trying to deal with - sexism is on the whole thought of something that almost exclusively happens to women. Sexism against men is wholly downplayed, ignored or mocked, at all levels.
[–]billndotnet 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]firedroplet -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Re: your first point.
Men are definitely physically stronger, but that's much less important now than it was in the past. The reason women have been prevented from those front line roles is largely because of sexism. If it wasn't sexist, there would simply be a physical fitness test that both women (and men) would have to pass to be on the front lines.
[–]billndotnet 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We don't make different weight guns or bullets or armor. All that shit weighs roughly the same, regardless of who is lifting it. If the basic requirements are that a marine or grunt be able to hump their kit X distance per day, on X supplies that weigh Z pounds, that's the requirement. You won't achieve the same results with women, the physicality is that different. You would have to lower the bar. Navy and Air Force? Less of an issue. But on the ground, in the dirt, hauling gear and crossing terrain, we'll see robots doing that shit before we see women doing it. Technology will solve the sexism issue before humans do.
[–]SaigaFan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Until honest to god exo suits exist for grunts you will bee very wrong. Physical strength, endurance, and durability is a huge factor in ground combat roles.
Hell, physical strength and fitness is more important in the modern infantry role now than it has been for hundreds of years.
[–]Over_Here_Boy 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The bottom one hits home for me.
[–]jordanleite25 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men have always carried the burden of society. Soldiers, garbage-men, construction workers. I'd say 90% of the essential duties of society are carried out by men besides child birth obviously and home care. These higher pressure, high stress, and physically exhausting professions have consequences.
But then they'll argue that there aren't enough CEO's and that women's pay is lower than men's. You know, for the jobs they actually want.
[–]TechnoSam_Belpois 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Glad to see this as the top post. Someone else linked to a conversation elsewhere on reddit where someone claimed that "MRAs don't care about real problems men face" and that they should visit this sub if they want to dive into a pool of filth. So anyone who took them up on that would have seen this post, which shows that you guys do care.
[–]kinyutaka 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
See, shitlord! You're hogging all the fun stuff like combat, and saddling us with the kids!
[–]AnimatedSnake 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Though I agree on the principle of the graph, this does seem like a: Who have it toughest-award.
Super tumblr-ish.
[–]theovertaker 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And aren't there more women in our population than men
[–]eifer 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well based on those statistics, it would make sense to give the kids to the mother.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's homicide dammit! Homicide! Two 'I's!
Instead it looks like men are the majority when it comes to killing gays.
Would it have killed you to do a spellcheck before doing a post worthy of /r/AdviceAnimals?
[–]j3zuz00[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because I obviously made it... It's not like there is a gigantic logo of the organization at the bottom of the infographic there or anything... Nope. I am obviously really stupid.
[–]it_turns_out 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is not a good post:
Couple that with it being a repost/rehash, and this post shouldn't be getting significant upvotes.
Somebody else in the comments said that they got here via /r/all. When a post from this sub gets that sort of visibility, it should be high quality. Instead, it's this post, which makes it easy to quickly repudiate /r/MensRights if you already inclined to do so.
[–]j3zuz00[S] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SuperSulf -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Not normally a fan of this subreddit but this, this is very interesting.
[–]SaigaFan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Check it out sometime. There is a decent amount of a sensational bullshit to wade through but there are also some really informative and thought-provoking post in the mix.
And unlike many social justice forms there is no banning for opposing viewpoints.
[–]SuperSulf 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
At least you allow downvotes. Every time I see a subreddit that doesn't I just shake my head . . .
[–]SaigaFan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It is a weird place, too easily it becomes tumbler outrage and straw mans, but there is also a fair amount of self policing.
How can people expect to win over support if they never allow for opposing views to be brought up.
[–]K5WCAXmGVn 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Slightly higher resolution version.
I was just thinking a couple hours ago about the term "white male privlidge". They always say driving is a privlidge not a right because it can be taken away from you. I don't see how the term privlidge applies. I do however believe it should be respected like a privlidge & not abused.
[–]GreasedLightning 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm privileged with a quicker death. It's all I'd hope for considering how goddamn stupid some people are to think I'm privileged.
[–]crimeariver0 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Calfs must have more space when traveling to an abattoir than a human on an airplane. But to be fair we're going on holiday, they're getting death.
[–]elonc 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this infographic is pretty bias and over simplistic of a more complex subject. I hope no one is dumb enough to use this to support their position on men's rights. It will only make you look like a jack ass.
I agree with a majority of posts in this thread, however this is really idiotic.
If you just pick and choose the categories that males "excel" in, you're not making a very strong point.
As pointed out by numerous comments, most of these statistics are useless. Let's not fall into the feminist trap of misusing data.
[–]iwasboredsoyeah -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
since guys have a higher rate of death isn't it better for women to have the kids then?
[–]EtoshOE -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
top kek
[–]ThomSnake 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Seems pretty awful being a man. How many men here would choose being female if they could?
[+][deleted] -20 points-19 points-18 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying this is "wrong", per se. But people can use statistics to prove just about any damn thing you want. Let's say there's a small town that has a small homosexual population and a low crime rate, and one day someone who HAPPENS to be gay kills someone. And 8 years later another person who happens to be gay kills someone, and those were the only 2 murders in that town
"100% of the murders in this town were committed by homosexuals". It doesn't take into account it only happened twice, nor that they were 8 years apart
[–]BigOldNerd 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There were 14,748 homicides in the United States in 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
Suicides in USA in 2005: 32533 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States
Statistically significant? You decide.
[–]Drunkin-Donuts 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I fully agree that you have to be careful when using statistics, but we are not talking about a sample size of two here. Do you have any specific problems with the statistics presented? They seem meaningful to me.
People can come up with stats for anything, 14% of people know that
[–]GenderNeutralLanguag 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And never forget that 86% of statistics are just made up on the spot.
[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
As ever, I must point out the majority of suicide attempts are by women, but men tend to use more effective means. The rate of suicidal depression is much less gender-imbalanced than death alone can convey.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
1.1% of female suicidal attempts result in death
12% of male suicidal attempts result in death.
Which do you think is more of a problem now?
[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
You're still disguising how many men and women per capita are dangerously depressed by focusing on deaths alone. The abject misery of untreated suicidal depression can't be summed up by measuring piles of corpses!
But fine, let's look at those numbers. Men's suicide attempts are ten times as likely to succeed. So why is is the ratio of deaths 80-20 instead of 90-10?
If people who survive a suicide attempt are very unlikely to try again, an 80-20 split for a 10x difference in the fatality rate would mean twice as many women are attempting suicide. No, I'm sorry: three times as many. 80-20 is a 1:4 ratio, not 1:5.
It's no prettier if people who survive a suicide attempt are likely to try again. The survivors aren't any better, medically speaking - they're just not dead. And if male and female survivors are equally likely to try again, with the same likelihood that they'll die, then equal groups of survivors would have to average something like a dozen rounds of attempted suicide before the 1:4 ratio emerges.
Using just the numbers seen here - either a lot more women are suicidal, or female suicide survivors are much more likely to retry, or the recidivism rate for suicide survivors of either gender is staggering. Either the problem is a lot less gender-specific than the constantly repeated 80-20 ratio makes out or else these specific statistics are woefully irrelevant.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If people who survive a suicide attempt are very unlikely to try again
What says they are?
Or women have a better expectation for a cry for help to be taken seriously, so resort to non-lethal methods knowing they're more likely to get help more often, while men expect to not get help and simply want their pain to end the best way they can expect it to.
Which explains both the 80-20 suicide rate with men being higher and the female higher attempt rate.
[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I said "if." And then I explored the opposite possibility. Neither matches the narrative you're defending.
The notion that their abnormally high death rate is explained by an urge to not actually kill themselves is simply ridiculous.
Ignoring how many questionable and sexist assumptions are inherent to the motivations you're proposing, that's STILL up to three times as many women who are suffering through suicidal depression, which is a serious fucking problem even if it does not end in death.
Your explanation of these ugly statistics isn't supported by reasoning, either. Depressed women are twice as likely to seek psychiatric help than depressed men. Most suicidal women sought psychiatric help beforehand. Women who want to cry for help pick up the phone and call a doctor.
That's not what I said. I said it was explained by their using the method they expect to actually help end their pain. If they don't expect actually getting help after using non-lethal methods, then killing themselves would be the most effective method.
Ignoring how many questionable and sexist assumptions are inherent to the motivations you're proposing, that's STILL up to three times as many women who are suffering through suicidal depression
Without knowing recidivism you don't know that, especially in case where mere ideation is counted as an attempt.
Depressed women are twice as likely to seek psychiatric help than depressed men.
Maybe they have a higher expectation to be taken seriously or not be shamed by their peers for doing so.
[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I said it was explained by their using the method they expect to actually help end their pain.
Okay, partly my fault for pronoun use, but I mean the women's abnormally high death rate. For the methods they are using, and thus for the fatality rate per attempt, the number of women dying from suicide is significantly higher than expected. That is what we are trying to explain, here.
Yes, that would be why I explored both low and high recidivism. Those were the "ifs."
Hey great, another reason your "cry for help" explanation doesn't match the presented statistics.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For the methods they are using, and thus for the fatality rate per attempt, the number of women dying from suicide is significantly higher than expected. That is what we are trying to explain, here.
How is it significantly higher than expected, especially when ideation is counted as attempts in some surveys?
How do we determine the attempts that are cries for help versus incompetence in trying to kill yourself?
Actually that's exactly why it does. Men don't expect cries for help to actually end their pain since they don't expect them to be taken seriously.
[–]trahloc -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
/s Could this be why men get paid more than women? They get the job done? /s
And that's just the beginning, folks.
[–]deepsoulfunk 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How many men commit violent crimes?
Women are the true victims of war since they have to take care of the children alone. ...they sure do love that full custody when they don't have to take it.
[+]jasiones -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh this again? Yea some of those are taken place in male dominated areas, so the perspective is a little skewed. If you have 100 workers and only 5 of them are female, chances are any workplace accident will happen to a male.
[–]Zzqnm -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Only thing that bothers me about this is that the suicide statistic appears to be based on SUCCESSFUL suicide rates. Women attempt about as many suicides as men, but their less lethal methods results in fewer actual deaths.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually women attempt more.
But 1.1% of female suicide attempts result in death versus 12% of male.
So men are ~12 times more likely to die from attempting suicide.
[+]panda-est-ici -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]alclarkey 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Even if it was, feminists do it to a far worse degree.
[+]panda-est-ici -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
"Yeah, I did something wrong but they did something worse" is a child's excuse. A man owns his mistakes, not hide behind the mistakes of others.
[–]alclarkey 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Note, I didn't actually agree that it was cherry picking.
[–]panda-est-ici -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
The issue isn't that your are/are not admitting fault it's that you are trying to divert the blame when criticised instead of addressing the issue at hand. Which is something a child will commonly do to get out of trouble.
[–]alclarkey -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
You keep missing the point. THERE'S NO CHERRYPICKING HERE.
[–]panda-est-ici -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29
[–]alclarkey 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I know what cherrypicking is. Now why don't you illustrate what's being cherrypicked here?
[–]panda-est-ici -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You have just demonstrated you don't understand what cherrypicking is.
[–]alclarkey 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You have just demonstrated that you don't have an argument. Usually cherrypicking goes like this "Well you included x, but conveniently left out y". So show me, what is cherrypicked here?
[–]autowikibot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Cherry picking (fallacy):
Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias. Cherry picking may be committed intentionally or unintentionally. This fallacy is a major problem in public debate.
Interesting: Anecdotal evidence | False evidence | Faulty generalization
[+]niklaskronwalled -11 points-10 points-9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Show this any time anyone ever bitches about the wage gap. Proof that men work more physically risky jobs and therefore deserve higher pay.
[+]meanoregongreen -15 points-14 points-13 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
The murder statistic is stupid because the majority of murders are committed by men.
[–]basmith7 18 points19 points20 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Next you'll say it's okay if a black guy kills a black guy.
[+]meanoregongreen -16 points-15 points-14 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
? That makes no sense at all... I never implied it was ok for men to be murdering men, but it certainly that stat just doesn't quite fit in with your men's right narrative like the rest of the stats do.
[–]evilGIR 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that user is making a point that.... It doesn't matter that men are committing most the murders. That's info that shouldn't matter.
The point was that men are the victim to more murders and you pointed out it didn't matter because men are murdering men.
[–]Ultramegasaurus 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
These statistics are not about finding a culprit but to highlight how systematic male suffering is just seen as normal in our society whereas female suffering virtually always triggers a loud response.
Also, the MRA has no problem denouncing violent men. Feminists and other gynocentrists however have a really hard time acknowledging female evil and never tire to play it down or excuse it.
[–]meanoregongreen -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok I can see the logic now. Just thought t wasn't as powerful as some of the other statistics.
[+]basmith7 -14 points-13 points-12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a pretty dumb sub.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I would like to see also who is doing all the crimes against men vs who is doing them to women as a percent of gender. Throw LGBT in there, too.
edit: I bet 85% of all that violence is done by men.
[–]masgrada -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Did you switch color representation in the title vs body on purpose?
[–]j3zuz00[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I did not make it, but that is really annoying.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn't give the kids to me neither. We're dropping like flies
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
why should men get custody they are far more likely to die.
lol /jk
[+]Disasterbaiter -10 points-9 points-8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm all about men's rights but what does getting killed/ committing suicide have to do with getting custody? Wouldn't it make more sense for the parent with custody to be the one less likely to die?
[+]GroundhogExpert -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't get it! That's not what privilege means. It's about how people in society will automatically treat you like an adult, and how they like totally look down at me for saying vapid shit and turning every conversation into a debate about sociology, which they like clearly know nothing about. /s* I guess it was too subtle.
[+]soundsaboutWRIGHT -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Why is suicide rate on here? What has that got to do with privilege? Spoiled rich kids kill themselves bc they're depressed. Depression is not a factor in privilege. This graphic doesn't say why these people die. People die from acting unsafe on the job, does that mean their not privileged? And homicide rate? They've done studies that show that men are naturally more inclined to participate in risky behavior. So women don't put themselves in situations where they might be killed (gang violence, etc). I'm not saying there is or isn't any white male privilege, I'm saying this graphic doesn't provide much real supporting information for privilege. Try adding incarnation rate with a guilty verdict. I'm sure that would show a higher rate in men. That's actually TRPs main point for arguing male privilege and it's a pretty meaningful statistic.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Depression is not a factor in privilege
Seems like privilege is a way of dismissing people's problems for you then.
[–]ZapActions-dower -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Depression is not a factor in privilege.
Being of sound mental health is definitely a priviledge. As is being white, or male, or cis. It's another level of shit you don't have to deal with. That's obviously not to say that there's nothing shitty about being a man, as you know, there's the OP right there, but of course there's more things shitty about being a woman, like for instance that the majority of those in power across the globe view you as inferior.
And let's not get anything wrong here: depression is a mental illness. It's not being sad for an extended period of time, it's an actual diagnosable condition.
[–]soundsaboutWRIGHT 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No one is privileged enough to be safe from depression.
[–]ZapActions-dower -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You seem to have a strange understanding of privilege. It's an entirely separate category. There's very little way any other privilege you may or may not have will effect your chances of depression unless there are genetic predispositions to it.
[–]soundsaboutWRIGHT 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That is literally my point. What dies suicide have to do with privilege?
[–]Ducky_Mcgee 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most people who get into the military are men. Women are actually smart enough not to war.
Either you're a troll or really dumb. There are lots of women in the military.
[–]Arby01 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
but the fact that an honest working and loving father does not get custody is not a general thing.
not true.
[–]that_nagger_guy -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How many times is this going to be reposted?
[+]fandette88 -12 points-11 points-10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Isnt the majority of victims killed by guys? Also for workplace deaths arent blue collar jobs mostly guys? Its not like 5 women get crushed under a steel beam and five men get crushed and death goes...nah Ill just take the dudes.
[+]StormMFeel -17 points-16 points-15 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
...And? The point of this is, what excactly?
[–]bobartig 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It lets down and out guys with a chip on their shoulder complain more. It also "confirms" people's victim complexes while appealing to low-order thought. But hey, it must be true because there were numbers involved. Multiple numbers!
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
In a funny way it makes sense based off this graph. Guys are just a lot more likely to die so giving custody to the woman makes sense.
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It always bothered me that in this infographic, women are represented by blue.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Because the title is blue. It implies that men are represented by the color blue and women as orange. But it's reversed. /r/crappydesign plug.
You people need to learn basic design
it's bad design. blue is associated with boys, so flipping it creates an incongruity in the display of the information.
[–]delusionalLnightLong 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Rape?
Just as prevalent for men.
Domestic violence?
Pretty much just as prevalent.
Political office?
So what? If you don't like, actually try voting for a woman, and remember that women have the majority of the voting power, especially since so many men lose their right to vote.
Job opportunities?
What? Tired of working indoors comfortably and making the men do all the heavy lifting when they have the same job and get paid the same?
[+]Plantbitch -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe you'd get the kids if so many of you weren't killing, being killed, and killing yourselves all the time?
I kid, I kid, I know an equal amount of unfit mothers as I do fathers.
[+]SantoCO -8 points-7 points-6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So this is better for children that they go with females...men are dead and not around right?
[+]Ninebythreeinch -18 points-17 points-16 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
Women have it too easy. The should actually pay more tax. They should also pay higher in insurance as they use medical facilities more often.
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, that's fucking idiotic.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
It's only fair that those who use a service more than other also pay more.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Okay. So people who are in the hospital a lot for some kind of illness should be charged more? If I use public transport, like a bus, more than somebody else should I be charged more? Saying that makes it seem like you're just against women.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That's right, I'm not here to subsidize you needs.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm a guy, I'm just not agreeing with punishing women for being women.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So charging people the right amount is "punishing women"? Ok then.
I was talking more about taxing them for.... what exactly?
[–]Ninebythreeinch 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For using services a lot more than men. Men pay more for car insurance. If that isn't discrimination against men, then it'd be ok to charge women more for health insurance and taxes. Do you know how much a pregnancy costs?
[–]double-happiness 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
An alternative point of view is 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need'.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm a bigger fan of Ayn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged
Atlas Shrugged:
Atlas Shrugged is a 1957 novel by Ayn Rand. Rand's fourth and last novel, it was also her longest, and the one she considered to be her magnum opus in the realm of fiction writing. Atlas Shrugged includes elements of science fiction, mystery, and romance, and it contains Rand's most extensive statement of Objectivism in any of her works of fiction. The book depicts a dystopian United States, wherein many of society's most prominent and successful industrialists abandon their fortunes and the nation itself, in response to aggressive new regulations, whereupon most vital industries collapse. The title is a reference to Atlas, a Titan described in the novel as "the giant who holds the world on his shoulders". The significance of this reference appears in a conversation between the characters Francisco d'Anconia and Hank Rearden, in which d'Anconia asks Rearden what advice he would give Atlas upon seeing that "the greater [the titan's] effort, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders". With Rearden unable to answer, d'Anconia gives his own response: "To shrug". The theme of Atlas Shrugged, as Rand described it, is "the role of man's mind in existence". The book explores a number of philosophical themes from which Rand would subsequently develop Objectivism. In doing so, it expresses the advocacy of reason, individualism, capitalism, and the failures of governmental coercion. Image i
Atlas Shrugged is a 1957 novel by Ayn Rand. Rand's fourth and last novel, it was also her longest, and the one she considered to be her magnum opus in the realm of fiction writing. Atlas Shrugged includes elements of science fiction, mystery, and romance, and it contains Rand's most extensive statement of Objectivism in any of her works of fiction.
The book depicts a dystopian United States, wherein many of society's most prominent and successful industrialists abandon their fortunes and the nation itself, in response to aggressive new regulations, whereupon most vital industries collapse. The title is a reference to Atlas, a Titan described in the novel as "the giant who holds the world on his shoulders". The significance of this reference appears in a conversation between the characters Francisco d'Anconia and Hank Rearden, in which d'Anconia asks Rearden what advice he would give Atlas upon seeing that "the greater [the titan's] effort, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders". With Rearden unable to answer, d'Anconia gives his own response: "To shrug".
The theme of Atlas Shrugged, as Rand described it, is "the role of man's mind in existence". The book explores a number of philosophical themes from which Rand would subsequently develop Objectivism. In doing so, it expresses the advocacy of reason, individualism, capitalism, and the failures of governmental coercion.
Interesting: Atlas Shrugged: Part II | Atlas Shrugged: Part I | Atlas Shrugged: Part III | List of Atlas Shrugged characters
[–]double-happiness 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not sure what you are getting at there.
[–]Ninebythreeinch 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just my point of view
[+]natephant -7 points-6 points-5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well the women must win custody because the courts realize the man is very likely to die soon.
[–]tigerslices -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
of Course they get custody, all the males keep dying!
[–]10deepinyourgirl -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why is this so fucking low resolution?!
[–]MooFz -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not that weird men don't win custody if they keep dying! /s
[–]HilariousMax -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of course they get custody, judging from that graphic the men are all dead.
[–]Youthinkyouresosmart -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Women are clearly not disadvantaged; look at all these existing biases and segregation." As if women created the social norms on their own.
These discrepancies which are established by long existing gender roles and norms, mostly by committees of men.
Women don't fight on the front lines to prevent capture of female soldiers because they tend to be raped by opposing forces. Rules established by congress and leaders of the armed forces which were and still are predominantly men.
Industrial jobs are predominantly held by men. During WWII many women held such jobs due the shortage of labor as man were sent overseas to fight but the moment the war ended, men and women quickly returned to their "traditional roles".
Women tend to be favored in custody cases because the stereotype is women are more nurturing and therefore the mother's role in raising a child is more crucial. Be honest, which gender has been screaming for "traditional" families, while a whole generation of the other gender has been trying to break these gender roles?
All forms of discrimination sucks. Don't get me wrong, but look at some fucking context. We aren't allowed to bitch about the unfairness of society when, historically, we held all the cards and made all the rules about gender roles for the past 400 years. We told them to stay at home, watch the kids, don't fight in wars, hold only certain jobs, don't be aggressive, and now we have the fucking nerve to complain about how unfair it all is? This is so fucking stupid. Women weren't even allowed to vote until 1919 in the US. Historically, women didn't even have laws to protect their rights to divorce or even own land.
[+]Sanhael -10 points-9 points-8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Are you... are you seriously taking disproportionate death and injury rates as a sign of mens' rights being infringed?
Fewer women die in combat because they aren't allowed in combat roles. Most of the women I know already consider this unfair.
Fewer women are involved in industrial accidents because fewer women are employed in dangerous industries. If you could find applicant data relevant to how many jobs are actually held by women, I'd be interested in seeing that. It's nice to know that more women having limbs and faces ripped off by heavy machinery would make you happy.
76% of murder victims are men? Well, don't blame women, who comprise only 10% of murderers in the United States according to the FBI.
Men, categorically, keep women out of these fields. Men, generally speaking, earn the money, and women, generally speaking, run the household and raise the children. There are exceptions. There are also exceptions to women getting custody of the kids in the event of a divorce.
[–]reboticon 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think anyone is taking this as a sign mens' rights are being infringed.
It is simply a collection of the 'bad' privileges men hold as well. Fewer women are employed in dangerous industries, no doubt, yet the pay gap is mentioned constantly. There is a large push to get more women in STEM fields, but there is not so large a push to get women into dangerous industries, and those industries usually give hazard pay.
Is there a correlation between 90% of murderers being male and 90% of CEOs being male? I have no idea. I'm not suggesting that CEOs and murderers are the same, only that it's possible both have risk taking personalities.
There are a lot more men working in dangerous jobs than there are CEOs, but number of CEOs is an issue that is regularly discussed.
[–]Sutarmekeg -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Homocide... that's a pretty fucked up crime.
[–]j3zuz00[S] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Am I the only one that
It should be "who", not "that". Come on. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously if you do not know how to use grammar correctly?
ITT: more victims than a rape clinic in India
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why?
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[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]mindbleach -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TracyMorganFreeman 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]alclarkey 2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Arby01 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]HilariousMax -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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