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Norah Vincent, author of Self Made Man, has died by assisted suicide (feminist tried to prove men have it easier and failed)

September 2, 2022
867 upvotes

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Post Information
Title Norah Vincent, author of Self Made Man, has died by assisted suicide (feminist tried to prove men have it easier and failed)
Author TriggurWarning
Upvotes 867
Comments 172
Date September 2, 2022 7:04 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit /r/MensRights
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/norah-vincent-author-of-self-made-man-has-died-by.1130342
https://theredarchive.com/post/1130342
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/x49nho/norah_vincent_author_of_self_made_man_has_died_by/
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Comments

[–]Surv1ver 280 points281 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

No! Why did I first hear about her death now?

Her work as an author has had a huge influence on me and my view on sex and gender.

R.I.P.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 223 points224 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately she brought up some inconvenient facts the powers that be would rather us remain ignorant to, so she was allowed to pass in relative silence, like she never existed. But we do not forget.

[–]Surv1ver 67 points68 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

A shame. I think many people would have benefited from reading her work.

[–]dw87190 89 points90 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure the feminists will be scrambling to purge her from public memory as we speak

[–]Blackbarnabyjones 73 points74 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

She sounds like the FIRST woman to actually walk a mile in a man's shoes and in the process, developed a consciousness (soul?) and gained the ability to think about people other than herself. Also she stared down the barrel of how relentlessly evil, narc, and selfish women can be. And she couldn't unsee it.

It crushed her.

She came to make a troll point and learned the greatest lesson and became a human in the process.

[–]dr_pepper02 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve not seen a single mention in feminist media about her either.

[–]crackisthelifesource 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Her death wasn’t reported till august tho she died July 6th

[–]idevenkmyname 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What sex mostly occupies the halls of power again and composes these "powers that be"?

[–]mrstickman 17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why did I first hear about her death now?

As far as I can tell, she really must've wanted to die in a very private manner. It was an assisted suicide in a clinic in Switzerland, and it wasn't reported until a month after the fact. It's a shame, because I think it'd be a good thing to know what really happened. I've seen a lot of disheartening speculation.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What sort of disheartening speculation is that?

[–]Southern_Ad_956 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe people are jumping to the conclusion that living as a man made her kill herself. in today's battle of sex this serves as ammunition, it fits a narrative while everyone disputes who has more privileges and who suffers more.

from what a google, I could not find a direct relation to her experience as a man and her assisted dead, but she was suffering with depression for a long time and have flirted with suicide since at least 2015 when she wrote an essay about it: https://lithub.com/on-the-subject-of-my-suicide/

[–]Revolutionary-Bed842 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it is supposedly true that AFTER she left a male retreat she immediately checked herself into a mental institution for depression. It's possible that outright correlates at least based off what was documented in the book. Fact is, up till the point of the experiment (2006) she had a positive outlook in life it seemed, and wasn't suicidal. It was only mid experiment (2015) and eventually 2022, where it happened. So you could infer that the experiment turned her suicidal.

[–]CawlinAlcarz 115 points116 points  (66 children) | Copy Link

Was she dying of some terminal disease?

I know very little about her other than what I just read at the provided link in the OP, however, I think I might like to read what she had to say. I suspect she gave an honest take on things based on her experiences based on the notable quote on the linked page.

RIP - it sounds like the world might be a lesser place without her.

[–]tired_hillbilly 285 points286 points  (58 children) | Copy Link

Depression. The whole "live as a man for two years" thing kinda broke her. Women treated her like dirt when they thought she was a man, and it shattered her previous worldview.

[–]WingsofSky 197 points198 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Women don't realize how badly they treat men.

[–]Amazing-Bit6140 209 points210 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

"They can handle it"

"They deserve it"

"My safety is more important than your feelings"

and on and on and on

The quiet part they won't say is that any man who is affected by the poor treatment they consider too weak to be a "real man". They know exactly what they're doing, they just don't bother to consider the feelings of the target of their abuse.

[–]catalyst44 67 points68 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's kinda funny how women say feelings don't matter but they're also the ones to claim feeling matter, i.e by saying words can hurt and thus free speech isn't good (source: my sister)

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

This kind of shit pisses me off so much, they literally see men as objects or less than human and they JUSTIFY THIS SHIT IN THE STUPIDEST WAYS POSSIBLE.

Men killing themselves en-mass is less important than anything else according to the internet.

[–]Man_of_culture_112 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Getting emotionally involved with women is fortunately a choice but there are laws that benefit women at our expense that give me more issue.

[–]asdfghjkujpkiji 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't agree that they consciously 100% know what they are doing.

I'm sure its 100% conscious sometimes, but I believe thats rare

Many of the deepest learnings are unconscious, and are acted upon unconsciously.

Some people, if approached well, and/or if it gets to them at the right way and right time, will question their own preconceptions.

The better we are at recognizing those who are open, when they are open, and how to approach them, the faster we can fix this for the next generations.

[–]dr_pepper02 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Or maybe they do and don’t care, they can say men are obsolete and unnecessary and turn around and reap all the benefits of male labor.

They use government to extract resources from men while claiming not to need men but the second men walk away the scream coward.

[–]WingsofSky 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you're dealing with "Crazy". That's how it is.

[–]bellyot 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is nonsense. Some men are treated badly, some women are treated badly. But to say that women generally treat men bad is horseshit and launched a pathetic self-pity party here. I'm a man and I've been treated badly by women but I've also treated women badly at times. That's life and recognizing that both things are related is important to solving these issues. Coming on here and attacking women for not knowing how bad they are treating men is not helpful.

[–]WingsofSky 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems like other people on this sub agree with me. However you can think whatever you want.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 95 points96 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Her life is one dedicated to self-sacrifice for the expansion of human consciousness. That's why she's a hero.

[–]CawlinAlcarz 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like it...

Wishing I knew more about her, though it's just making me feel sad right now.

Shit.

[–]Blackbarnabyjones 28 points29 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Her life is one dedicated to self-sacrifice for the expansion of human consciousness. That's why she's a hero.

BUT if you go back to the beginning. That's not why she started the experiment.

She was originally a pro-feminist who took the "plunge" to SHOW OFF HOW EASY BEING MALE WAS and that women had it right to do whatever they wanted to men under the banner of feminism BECAUSE MEN ALL LEAD THE EASY LIFE.

She got more than she expected and was hit with the truth.

I DO GIVE HER PROPS for not doubling down, and pretending that her experiment didn't affect her in the way it did, and for abandoning the feminist narrative and siding with men and even being filled with regret.

Seeing that you are doing/have done something wrong and stopping it or ever joining the side you hurt these modern times is a MALE/responsible thing to do.

Most/all women just double down on the male blame and gaslighting.

Props to her for not doing that.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand that, but she ultimately was changed by the experience and admitted the opposite, that men actually have it harder. This is illuminating knowledge because it comes from a completely non-partisan perspective (a woman trying to be a man to her best ability). I call her a hero for her honesty and bravery. Most people probably couldn't do what she did, but somehow she did it.

[–]ratione_materiae 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

She was originally a pro-feminist who took the "plunge" to SHOW OFF HOW EASY BEING MALE WAS and that women had it right to do whatever they wanted to men under the banner of feminism BECAUSE MEN ALL LEAD THE EASY LIFE.

She got more than she expected and was hit with the truth.

Which makes her ever more the hero. It’s much harder to admit you were wrong. It’s like that saying “it’s only when you are afraid that you can be brave”.

[–]CawlinAlcarz 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah... God damn! That's a fucking shit thing to have happened to her... fuck.

[–]EduardRaban 8 points9 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Are you sure that's the reason for her suicide? Do you have a source?

[–]notbusyatwork 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unless they have a solid source, it seems like an assumption. The NYT article linked by yollim does say she checked herself into a mental health hospital after charading as a man but there were a lot of years between that and her death

[–]ericneo3 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

checked herself into a mental health hospital

I'm sure she went on to write a book about it, how inhumanly mental health hospitals treat patients. Forced pills and electroshock therapy that patients couldn't refuse it rarely helped the patients and the regular absence of the actual doctors.

Nurses look after the patients but cannot prescribe any medication or treatment and are there to ensure you take the medicine. So if you get sick, have start seeing things from side effects or even a headache there is nothing they will do to help you. The doctors would see a patient maybe once every 2-4 weeks, that's a long time to be stuck in a small room with nothing to do and your suicidal thoughts.

[–]IdiotsandwichCoDm 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

in switzerland you are not eligible for assisted suicide due to mental health, only for physical issues and even then it's relatively hard to get, so no, it wasn't depression or mental health. she probably did not want anyone to know what disease she suffered from.

[–]Clemicus 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There isn't any information out there. There was an article behind a paywall but I wasn't sure which publication that was by

[–]yollim 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EduardRaban 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see.

[–]Tangential_influx 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This article by one of her old friends is very revealing, and shows that her recent assisted suicide wasn't merely the result of living as a man for 18 months:

https://spectator.org/losing-norah-vincent/

[–]SettingDue4623 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Source: Trust me bro 😂

[–]degustibus -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Killing people as a "treatment" for depression in Europe was done by a certain party that had inspiration and instruction from American eugenicists...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion\_T4

[–]SirIsaacGnuton 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Keep in mind that she did her "pass as a man" experiment in 2006. Some headlines make it seem like it was last year. And she seemed to study mental illness rather closely, possibly because she suffered from clinical depression which is itself a risk factor for suicide.

[–]Cookiedoughjunkie 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

then they treated her even worse for releasing the little inconvenient truth.

[–]Practical-Type7120 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lies Ive read nothing on her being treated like crap by what what strangers, ive never been treated like crap by strangers thta are female whf are are you talking about?

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Her documentary on being a man is quite good, if you can find it. I am having difficulties.

[–]Clemicus 28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It isn't a documentary. It's a segment on 20/20. Norah Vincent wrote books

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I just figured that out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU

[–]CawlinAlcarz 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I will look for it.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU

This is all we have, read the book to learn more.

[–]Able_Tear_7201 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Assisted suicide in Switzerland thats legal

[–]blunderban152 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She was actually dealing with major depression far earlier than her experiment and to say that living as a man "broke her" only downplays her previous struggles in favor of you trying to push a narrative that fits your world view and adds to the idea of who has it worse/battle of the sexed rhetoric which isnt progressive at all. someones suicide isnt some "i told you so, men have it worse" plight

[–]Sbarjai 91 points92 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This is disheartening.

Most of us go through this day by day and get constantly told how much easier we have it, that we need to check our privilege, and that we should suck it up (similar as to how women handle false accusations)

Truth is, there is no privilege in being a man. At all.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 35 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is very true brother, but fortunately heroes like Norah exist that prove people's suffering is valid, so there is hope.

[–]UnconventionalXY 18 points19 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yet at the same time it demonstrates how much stronger men are than women in taking that punishment: Norah didn't last 2 years as a man, whilst most men live with the suffering until they die.

This doesn't justify continuing to punish men, just that nature made men more resiliant because they need to be to play their biological role.

[–]IrreverentlyRelevant 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

As an FtM who's been out since 2006, there are a couple flaws in your arguments.

[–]UnconventionalXY 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm waiting to hear what they are as I'm always interested in different perspectives.

[–]badatbeingtrans 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Different FtM trans person here to answer your question.

I learned about Norah Vincent for the first time in ~2012 and was convinced (and secretly disappointed) that trying to live as a man would give me depression, since I thought I was cis at the time. When I actually tried it, I felt more freed and like myself in men's clothing than I ever did in women's. I had thought I would feel like a fraud or impostor, but instead, the depression I'd known for almost my whole life lightened almost immediately. It felt RIGHT.

Norah Vincent didn't get depression because all men unilaterally have it worse than all women or w/e. She got depression because she was a woman being inauthentic to her gender. There's a word for that, actually -- gender dysphoria, the thing trans people often get when forced to live as our assigned genders. And as she proves, cis people can get it too. David Reimer is another sad case of a cis person who experienced it-- he had a terrible accident as a baby and was raised as female as an experiment, and after a childhood of dysphoria, he switched to presenting as male full time as a teenager. Speaking personally, dysphoria sucks and I don't blame him.

Anyway I wear masculinity as a second skin, but femininity feels like shackles. Trans women generally feel the opposite. Masculinity and femininity both have their pros and cons, but at the end of the day, people have to do what feels right for them. Otherwise, that depression/dysphoria will persist, regardless of the gender of origin.

[–]Qantourisc 196 points197 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/woman-pretended-to-be-a-man-dies-assisted-suicide-realizing-difficult

If this is to believed:it seems she never got over the mental difficulties and setbacks she faced from living as a man. In the summer of 2022, Norah finally succumbed to her pain and died at the age of 53 via assisted death in Switzerland.

So ... living in the shoes of a man can kill a woman ? (! Anecdotal non proven statement !)

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 97 points98 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Yes, apparently it is true. And in her final breath she gives further knowledge to the world. A life of self-sacrifice like hers makes her a hero in my book.

[–]Blackbarnabyjones 21 points22 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Yes, apparently it is true. And in her final breath she gives further knowledge to the world. A life of self-sacrifice like hers makes her a hero in my book.

I get what you are saying, but do you get that you are also saying with this sentence:

That is an act of self-sacrifice to simply be a man.

And that she made the ultimate sacrifice by living as a man for a short time, and it warped and damaged her and now she is no longer with us.

Also 1/2 the population are men and still alive, but not celebrated for their daily sacrifice?

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 34 points35 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Men naturally grow up as men, so we are gradually adjusted to such a condition over many years, but to spontaneously transition to being a man is understandably traumatic given that men disproportionately suffer compared to women. From a woman's perspective they are socialized to be valued by virtue of being a woman, but men are not valued unless they earn it. It's like growing up in a rich family, and then suddenly being poor, versus being born as poor. This is the primary conflict they are faced with when they attempt to transition. For her to take on that challenge willingly and admit the difficulty is heroic.

[–]Blackbarnabyjones 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

For her to take on that challenge willingly and admit the difficulty is heroic.

SO by your very definition then - EVERY man is heroic yes?

Or do only women get to be heroic BECAUSE they pretend to be men?

You are making it sound like you can only be heroic if you are born with privileges, are a female, and you give them up.

What about all the men born with NO privileges ever and they are still here and kicking.

I'd say being born with nothing and still being here kicking and trying to be happy makes EVERY MAN a hero and WORTHY of award/reward.

You are not trying to ACKNOWLEDGE that normal men are worthy of being called heroes,

only a woman who can do for 2 years what a normal man does for his WHOLE LIFE.

This is why what you say is confusing.

Is what she is doing heroic or not? you say yes. Okay what did she do? All she did was be a man for two years.

All of us have been men all our lives. Aren't we heroes as well? many of us WERE NEVER princesses to begin with so we had nothing to give up. Many of us started with LESS THAN NOTHING.

But I do digress, this point is about Nora, but I couldn't help but chime it at seeing all your responses that seem to want to give Nora all the praise for being a weekend man, and having her cruel joke backfire on her and teach her a life lesson.

Like I said, PROPS where PROPS are due, she learned and changed and was even damaged by the experience that I could call nothing other than "gaining basic humanity", something that many women of the world today are sorely lacking.

Good for her for breaking the mold. And changing, albeit unwittingly/unwillingly.

[–]IrreverentlyRelevant 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I (FtM trans) came out sixteen years ago. My life is better since than before.

Not that I'm disagreeing with everything you're saying, but being a man is definitely not the worst thing that could happen to someone.

[–]ChadWolf98 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Imo what is to be applaud of is not taking the easy way out and just like stop the experiment after a day and living as woman claiming men had it easy.

For men its hard but I think there are mental adpects of being able to handle adversity of society better. Especially if you brought up as a man. Like, you dont have a worldview shattering moment like a westernvwoman would have.

For women it would be like a woman from say, saudi arabia coming to the US. This woman would experience such a bad cukture shock as a western woman would in Saudi Arabia.

[–]Blackbarnabyjones 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Imo what is to be applaud of is not taking the easy way out and just like stop the experiment after a day and living as woman claiming men had it easy.

I agree with this.

She started off a jackass and became an unplanned ally/spokeswoman.

[–]aussievirusthrowaway 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think we should conjecture on the cause until more facts are released

[–]legend0102 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know such a statement benefits our cause, but that’s very unlikely and taking it too far

She probably had some other forms of mental/physical problems. I think she suffered from depression throughout her life.

[–]Qantourisc 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea I was also thinking that. I would assume 1 year doesn't do you in forever. But I could be wrong.

[–]Tangential_influx 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

According to this article by one of her old friends, she did indeed suffer from depression throughout her life:

https://spectator.org/losing-norah-vincent/

[–]mozppc 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems like it

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not surprising, it's why the male suicide rate is much higher than womens.

[–]EnvironmentalLet5111 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah plz lots women suiciding.

[–]Familiar_Machine1302 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

homie you illiterate, he isnt downplaying women rates. just stating the factual evidence that proves males are significantly higher in every metric upon suicide

[–]IrreverentlyRelevant 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Living as a man made me less suicidal.

-a transguy

[–]Qantourisc 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Intrestring, do you have more details ?

[–]DevilishRogue 39 points40 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Damn that sucks. She was someone I hugely admired.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Me too!

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

So you never actually read her book?

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't read books, but by no means do I not read. I read a lot. And watch/listen. That's how I knew about her years ago, and respected her sacrifice.

[–]ratione_materiae 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lmao to be fair tho you should at least know the title of the book

[–]tired_hillbilly 96 points97 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Norah Vincent is a hero. I will have no shit-talking about her.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 37 points38 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, I did not mean to imply she wasn't.

[–]chaun2 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

RIP Norah. I wish she could have gotten a hold on her depression

[–]haikusbot 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

RIP Norah. I wish

She could have gotten a hold

On her depression

- chaun2


I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.

Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"

[–]chaun2 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good bot

Well done

[–]LastSleep4274 29 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She was supposed to play pretend man for 2yrs and gave up after 18mnths. She said it was terrible, women treated her horribly, she also had to go to theraphy after the 18mnths. I guess we're strong lads, keep fighting

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We are strong.

[–]SteveBlakesButtPlug 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the first comments I saw about this from a feminist sub was "it's hard for a woman to be a man. Men prefer their shitty situations"

Fucking scum.

[–]narfywoogles 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

She was a legendary bro.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree!

[–]Shadowdragon409 29 points30 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

There is truth to the idea that she proved that the world treats men like shit, and it contributed to her suicide, but you also have to keep in mind that she was pretending to be a gender she wasn't. It wasn't the fact that she pretended to be a man, it was the fact that she was pretending to not be a woman. She was deceiving everybody she interacted with, and that can have some harmful side effects on the psyche.

I'm not trying to take away from her accomplishments, or trying to belittle the struggles men go through. I just think it's disingenuous to say that she killed herself because the world fucked on her too much.

Edit: her accomplishments. Not my accomplishments lol.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but it gave her an unique perspective that most people never get.

[–]Braioch 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad this was mentioned eventually because while it's a fuzzy recollection, I'd swear she spoke on how both pretending to be a man and outright lying and deceiving constantly for almost 2 years really tore her to shreds.

A shame it ended this way for her. May she find the peace in death that she never found in life.

[–]Shadowdragon409 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. I personally find most of the comments here offensive to her memory.

[–]NormalITGuy 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I always felt bad for her. The truth is, when she *actually* felt some of the pain it is to be a man that guys just harden against and are basically used to and over by her age, you kinda realize that that's not something anybody should ever have to feel, feeling like the world doesn't give a damn about you and you're basically just a workhorse. If that sets in it's a brutal realization, and without hobbies or family I can see why a person would have a mental breakdown.

[–]Bergatario 10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Of course, men do have it harder. As it has been mentioned, men have to earn everything they get, but we get used to it as we grow into adulthood over many years. For her to go from an adult woman to a pretend man would have been brutal due to the lack of experiences growing up as a man and the coping mechanisms that men create with their friendships, sports, hobbies, etc. But another factor is that she wasn't a man at the end of the day. So you have to add that additional uncanny valley vibe that she carried along to every human interaction as a fake man. So her experience is always going to be artificial to a certain extent.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Precisely, I said the exact same thing to another person in this thread. Certainly she wasn't going to be the perfect man, but are any of us perfect? We are all flawed in some way. Some are less masculine. Some are short, more feminine in facial features, etc. We all fall short of the most ideal in some way.

[–]Bergatario 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In her case, it wasn´t about men´s perfection but the fact that we as humans are very good at detecting faces and if someone is of a gender we want to have sex with (or not). It´s wired into our DNA. Hence the uncanny valley vibe she tinted all her interactions as a man with. This would affect her experiment as who even knows if the men knew she wasn´t a guy and were just accepting. I´ve known of a couple of cases of this happening and people are just too polite to say anything.

[–]SettingDue4623 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some men havee extremely feminine faces as cis men

[–]roninfly 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She went through a lot to get the most genuine experience living as a man I suppose but I don’t understand how come it scarred her so much.

[–]Qantourisc 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being thrown in the deep end, and maybe already having had some issues ?

[–]SettingDue4623 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a man you have no support vs actually being a woman they can vent etc to ppl however if you do that as a man there’s no help

[–]Morden013 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

R.I.P. Norah. You have done a really important thing for men.

[–]LadyNCO 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's such a shame. I really liked her.

[–]SnooMarzipans5669 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw her obit the other week (or more).

I am sad I did not get to meet her. Great book. Not perfect, but wow, for someone to be able to cross the gender line really helps us understand one another.

For faking a guy, she did a pretty good job. Not perfect, but still I recommend everyone get the book.

[–]NightRespawn 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rip bro

[–]ChadWolf98 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think assisted suicide is very dangerous to be legal. I dont know her mental status but I feel more shoudl have been done.

[–]Tangential_influx 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I find it even worse to be illegal.

[–]ChadWolf98 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone who is old and has a terminal illness can refuse hospice. But letting doctors kill people violates their hippocratic oaths and its also very dangerous unfortunately due to corruption.

[–]HootsToTheToots 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Man the way you worded this, is actually kinda horrible. Just making you seem heartless.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree, it's not the best title, but I wanted to ensure appropriate attention to her passing, as it seems most of reddit pretty much passed her over. I did not mean to denigrate her in any way, I regard her as a hero.

[–]DavidByron2 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Huh. Everyone else who hasn't read her stuff thinks she was a hero. I think you're selling her up.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She is a hero, of that I have no doubt, and I don't have to read her book to know that fact.

[–]pappo4ever 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wanted to be a man all her life, finally died like a man: Depressed and alone, by suicide, for helping others.

[–]randomferalcat 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know it's men's right and everything but she had depression and it touches every genders.

women have it rough too sometimes and i don't envy them!

i like being a men!

Edit R.I.P Norah

[–]Chemical_Custard6365 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😭 RIP Norah, I have the utmost respect for you, and have had it since i heard of you, I hope you found peace in the end of it all.

[–]VIPKIDICON 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's our Tony Stark who snapped the gauntlet.

[–]Dedianator65 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I just read "Self made man", I can't adequately describe how angry I am at the person that helped her end her life!

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a very, very sad situation. I generally agree it should be up to the individual to make the final determination on assisted suicide, because nobody knows what it's like to be them except for them, however at the same time I'm cognizant of the fact that people who are not in the right state of mind often make the wrong choices for themselves. We should encourage them to try therapy and other alternative means of reconciling their internal conflicts if we can.

[–]tha_Graet_King_Nub 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Im glad to see so many people in the comments not shit talking her death. I just saw a tiktok clip like this one with a dude laughing at the news in a meme compilation, and I immediately had to knowmore about the situation that was going on. I read as many interviews and other articles related to her as I could in these past 2 hours, and I have to say I have gained massive respect for her and what she has done. Some of her views about her newest book, 'Adeline' also seemed to have struck a chord with me pretty hard. I have absolute respect for what she has done and am sad to know she is no more. Rest in Peace Norah Vincent.

[–]Me_Likes_Turtles 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This title is very misleading. Firstly she was a true feminist, even if the title suggests that's bad. Secondly and more importantly, she didn't try to prove men had it easier. You clearly don't know shit about her or her work. Fuck off.

[–]needalife94 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Was she trans ? Went from women to man ??

R.I.P.

[–]Extension_Ad_439 52 points53 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, she was not trans. She chose to impersonate a man for 18 months to see what life was like as a man. It severely affected her and caused her to become depressed.

She was a lesbian cis-woman who was destroyed by learning how painful life can be for men.

[–]needalife94 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She was a lesbian, but she wasn't trans, she was still attracted to women. She just wanted to prove that men have it easier in life, and unfortunately the opposite knowledge broke her.

[–]periodicchemistrypun 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lets put a little more recognition for Norah than that, she isn't just 'some feminist' or a random woman.

I think many of us remember watching that video on the book and really appreciating the compassion.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The title leaves something to be desired, but I think if you'll read the comments here you'll understand the level of respect most people are showing for her in this thread.

[–]Man_of_culture_112 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"and post-modern feminism refuses to acknowledge their suffering"

A garbage article, we don't need acknowledgement we need better lives, we need material improvements to our lives. We need actual equality not for women give hollow "there, there" while making life hard for us.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bro, I feel like recognizing people like Norah is how we get there. It's not going to be a spontaneous journey to equality. We gotta work for it. Nobody is just going to hand it over to us on a silver platter.

[–]Man_of_culture_112 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree but don't mistake that article or publication as an ally. They are tradcons who oppose women in the draft

[–]odysseytree 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We need women and transmen like her.

[–]ThomasBKlein 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why no pictures of her being manly?

[–]theuberkevlar -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can somebody translate OP's title for me?

[–]AlzheTV 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In a longer way on my own understanding of the thing.

The feminist who tried to prove that men have more facilities, but who realized that it was more complicated than it seemed (basically, a total failure of her social experiment, but which made it possible to write a book that I hear is really interesting).

[–]Authorwannabe69 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Has anyone read the book here? How did it read?

R.I.P

[–]MerchantFromTheVoid 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Flip it and reverse it. What you get is a gold medal, championship title, woman of the year award and even maybe a nobel price. Gynocentrism at its finest.

[–]These-Ad-2619 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's highly disingenuous because she herself said men had it harder after she lived 18 months as a man.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

We all understand that.

[–]These-Ad-2619 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Except me apparently cause I misread the title.

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

:)

[–]Papist_The_Rapist 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Xc Xbox nn BBL 9 21st

[–]TriggurWarning[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

WTF does that even mean bro?

[–]Papist_The_Rapist 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Accidentally butt typed that lmao. I Wonder how many times I've done that before

[–]CalmGhosts 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

After reading some of these comments, I’m just curious. You all love that she walked a mile in your shoes, but how many of you are willing to do the same with posing as a woman and telling the truth of your experience? Forgive me if I’m wrong, she never said men had it worse, just that women and men have some totally different issues to deal with.

[–]TophatKiyaki 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're wrong. She very much said men have it worse. She actually gave up on the experiment after about year and a half because not just was it so miserable being a man, she was actually starting to loathe other women despite herself being a lesbian because of how she was regularly treated in her male persona. Further, she began to describe her life as a woman as a privilege.

At the beginning of the experiment, she was expecting to prove that men had an easier life in the world than women. By the end of it, she had discovered that the opposite was true. This finding rocked her world view as a radical feminist, and made her extremely critical of we nowadays like to call "woke culture."

[–]CalmGhosts 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well if you’re so convinced, then what’s stopping you from trying out the experiment yourself? Try walking in womens shoes for a mile. I can promise you, you won’t like it.

[–]Arkemon-prime 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree, from my own personal experiences you can be a terrible human being as a woman and still get what you want, whether that’s lying about everything emotionally manipulating every situation and being known to be a bad person yet never get challenged by other women on your behaviour and left uninhibited to continue hurting anyone you come into contact with.. with very little repercussion & when men try to expose you women turn a deaf ear and the blind eye then label you as a misogynist - do you know how painful that is? So in reality men simply wouldn’t want to inhabit the same space women do because we have seen and experienced what a lot of you are like.

There’s very little accountability - constant twisting constant pompous signalling about how you’re more important in life and the same rules don’t apply to you morally socially or ethically, I’ve experienced all of that to differing degrees in every single relationship I’ve ever had with a woman & I won’t go into excessive amounts of details because frankly I have endless experience with the toxicity of women and how a lot of you simply flip everything as you’ve done here and refuse to acknowledge your privilege in comparison to men while accepting nothing and constantly playing the victim sex.

This is coming from an adoptee who was left in a box by a drug taking woman who exposed me to heroin while I was in the womb - she also spent sixteen years torturing my siblings to the point where she tried to kill them - when reported was free to live her life for almost two years walking around with zero immediate repercussions as would happen with a man & then was allowed to sit in court blaming her children for the treatment she put them through & this was really dark stuff just so you know snapped wrists left to heal with zero medical Intervention, bludgeoning with heavy blunt objects breaking kids backs, chisels hit into jawbones and embedded with the aid of hammers, beating kids with metal bars till they couldn’t breath, closing infant fingers in door hinges between the door and frame to break them, she even scrubbed my baby brothers back with a wire brush when he wasn’t even two resulting in a bath full more of blood than water, leaving infants in nappies for weeks causing ammonia burns that left lifelong scarring and skin problems in us all, ironing shit into our baby clothes when we soiled ourselves from her abuse - I even had a boiling hot kettle of water poured over my back.

I was then adopted and had to deal with an emotionally and mentally abusive mother who in then physically abused me on several occasions (held me down and punched my nose shut when having a nosebleed resulting in me almost drowning in my own blood) my adoptive father had to swat her off me when he realised what she was doing and made it clear if there was a choice it would be me over her not the other way round and she would be leaving & that caused decades of manipulative behaviour deliberately manifested to harm the men in the family but only me and my adoptive father - the list is endless: even tried to divorce him and blamed that on me the three times she “tried” despite not willing to follow through because of the resources she had access to through my father.

Every single relationship I’ve had has been majorly problematic, I’ve been physically attacked and abused, mentally and emotionally abused, had large volumes of money stolen and my house broken into multiple times after breaking up with them, I’ve had their family’s try to kill me after the lies they’ve told & even in one scenario had my entire family turned against me with the lies they told which later came out to be false and people were horrified they took her sue and after all of this I struggle deeply with mental health conditions that have been exacerbated purely by environmental factors caused by women.

any man who has tried to do me wrong is able to be tackled head on and past a certain point dealt with physically - won’t listen won’t respect you can smack the shit out of them and walk on in life after teaching them a valuable lesson - you can’t do the same to women and frankly physical violence rarely comes close to the wounds caused by decades of being psychologically & emotionally abused by women including a base of horrific physical abuse as an infant and all the instability from what happened which caused me to be adopted.

I’ve even been raped twice by women - once groomed by a 28yr old female when I was fifteen and she had sex with me before my sixteenth birthday and the second time when I was seventeen at a house party when I was paralytic in a bed in the house.

I think I’ve said enough about my experiences - but let it be known we don’t want to walk in your shoes because for most of us doing so would be to become the very evil we seek to avoid in our very short lives - that however doesn’t mean we can’t understand the things you go through in fact most of us understand it better than you.

[–]Arkemon-prime 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Il also add that while she was actively abusing the children all of the women involved in the social work & even in hospitals and the police, they all supported her and turned a blind eye to what was going on, it means that women let’s say “institutionally” are largely cut from the same cloth and exhibit the same tendencies and turn on feelings when they’ve been exposed or are being challenged on it - besides that there’s very little accountability amongst your own sex but rather swathes of support for totally degenerate immoral socially unacceptable behaviours that men get completely lambasted for & it’s a complete double standard & we as men are supposed to take criticism or guidance from this same pantheon of women? It makes no sense to me & I might be jaded, but I have walked amongst evil and I have seen it’s capacity’s for grandeur amongst women - for the most part you are not these airy fairy unicorns from fables spitting rainbows and glitter but rather quite the opposite & it’s almost ironic because I’ve said to many people that I wish I hadn’t been lied to as I was raised about the real capacities of women because it would’ve made it so much easier for me to defend myself against it - on a physical level yes you are more fragile than men with a lot of exceptions with specific women, but in every other respect I see you as the far more dangerous sex with very little constraint on your behaviour including literal double standard in the law not just in how it is applied but it’s perceptions too.

[–]CalmGhosts 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m sorry that you had to go through all that. But my question still stands. If you’re so confident then why not try the same experiment. I think you’ll be very surprised at what women go through on a daily basis. At the very least you’ll be a much more rounded out person. And if you don’t want to experience life as a woman, maybe you need to ask yourself why. Since life is apparently so great as a woman according to certain men, you’d think they’d be flocking to it right?

[–]evilgorillamask 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao

[–]Practical-Type7120 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lies she didnt do it to proove men have it easier she did it to experience it first hand as an experiement but she took pretending to be something shes not too far and the added strain aggrevated depression she developed

[–]Henry-Hamburg 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The book containes revelations, revealed inconvenient truth for the feminist storytelling, and squashed the utilization of the patriarchy lie with facts.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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