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Imnotmrabut
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ernest Bax openly say he disagreed with Women's Suffrage? I can't attest to the legitimacy of this site, but he's (allegedly) been quoted saying:
In my opinion there are two most powerful arguments against woman’s suffrage. Firstly, the liability of women to hysteria in one or other of the various forms of that abnormal mental condition, a condition which notoriously impairs or destroys the power of judgment. It has been shown that on the average, one woman out of every four or five exhibits symptoms of definite hysteria. If we include those whose temperament is affected by hysteria, but where the actual symptoms are latent, the proportion would of course be larger.
Other sources I can find seem to indicate he felt even back in the 1910s that men faced their own hardships (true), and that feminism failed to account for them (also true). But the ability to vote is important - it's a fundamental human right. And the fact that women weren't able to vote meant they were viewed as almost subhuman, in a sense.
So this opens the inevitable question: is it worth backing someone who (accurately) calls out men's issues, while also condemning women's suffrage and calling women, in general, prone to hysteria?
I actually wonder if men's objections to first wave feminism spawned the viewpoint as men's rights being inherently misogynistic, and if maybe it's this view that's permeating third wave feminism?
[–]cld8 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
That is a good point. I think that originally, the right to vote was not seen as a human right. It was seen as a right of those who were actively contributing to the nation's economy. That is why the poor couldn't vote (in some states you had to have certain land/assets) and neither could prisoners, convicts, slaves, Indians, etc. Indeed, when our nation was founded, it's likely that a majority of the male population could not vote.
With regard to your last point, I don't think there is much connection with men's objections to first wave feminism and the MRM today. The men's movement has not continuously existed.
[–]User-31f64a4e 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It was seen as a right of those who were actively contributing to the nation's economy.
Voting was the right of landowners. Working didn't mean shit; owning land did. Old widows voted; their hired men did not.
The American Civil War marked the beginning of war as industrialized slaughter, with conscription of large quantities of men required. The problem is that too many didn't feel they had a stake in society, and saw no reason to throw their lives away for a government outside their control or even influence.
Hence, universal male sufferage. Women (in the US) were not subject to conscription and did not want to be, so it was another couple of decades before they won the vote as well.
Women will say stupid shit, like men could always vote and men could not. Untrue. Land owners (male or female) could vote, and the great unwashed could not. More feminist lies.
[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]User-31f64a4e 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, Karen Straughan and others have challenged the assertion that it's only 3rd wave feminism that is toxic. The narrative is that the sufragettes had justice on their side, that they were some sort of angels. That they were in many cases outright terrorists gets swept under the rug now.
[–]perplexedm -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Even in 1913 people were aware of feminastism is fraud. Now it is sponsored by state.
Reminds of ghosts stories and conspiracies created by rulers of state /kings to limit and control people access in certain areas.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The state will use whatever ideology will extend its own power... it has no loyalty to any group or idea. Only to extending its own power.
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[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]cld8 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]perplexedm -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link