Prison hurts women more than men — so England is trying a new approach

pearl_harbour1941 · 2022-09-25T00:28:22+00:00

Main points:

incarcerated women suffer
"think of the children"

You're welcome.

Probably, someone should point out that women shouldn't do the crime if they don't want to do the time...

rednoids · 2022-09-25T00:13:13+00:00

Study confirmed by a panel of women.

63daddy · 2022-09-25T00:45:52+00:00

In the U.K “Judges ordered to show more mercy on women criminals when deciding sentences” (1) over 10 years ago. No matter how advantaged women are, feminists will always want more advantages.

(1) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311004/Judges-ordered-mercy-women-criminals-deciding-sentences.html

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-09-25T00:56:34+00:00

that trauma drives women to commit crime

As if men start committing crimes out of nowhere, most criminals commit crimes due trauma.

Women, she notes, are largely imprisoned for crimes of poverty — failing to pay taxes or public fines, or ...

Most criminals are in prisons for small crimes.

... theft to fund their or their partners’ drug addictions.

Imagine taking any responsibility.

Everything else in this article applies to male prisoners as well, but they have to make it about gender.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-09-25T01:58:57+00:00

And third, imprisoning women can have a bigger effect on society at large. Imprisoning mothers of young children can drastically affect early childhood development, and women’s role as caregivers — two thirds of women in prison report having one or more dependents — often leaves their dependents much more vulnerable.

LOL. The exact same thing can be said of men.

And third, imprisoning men can have a bigger effect on society at large. Imprisoning fathers of young children can drastically affect early childhood development, and men’s role as caregivers — two thirds of men in prison report having one or more dependents — often leaves their dependents much more vulnerable.

At the end of the day prison does nothing for society except make prisoners worse. Yes, there are some people who do need to be locked up, but a majority of men imprisoned today have made a simple mistake and pose no threat to society as such. If we as a society want men to stop offending, there are better ways to punish or rehabilitate men.

Women do not deserve a pussy pass because they are women.

xMrjamjam · 2022-09-25T01:25:28+00:00

Proof that feminism is a superiority movement

Punder_man · 2022-09-25T02:02:51+00:00

Really.. Prison hurts women more?
Despite the fact that women are already 50% less likely to be sentenced to prison and, when they are they receive on average 60% shorter sentences than what men get for the same crime?

But once again, despite all of this "Women most affected"

Now, this is an aside and not really related.. but in New Zealand (where I live) I have noticed that women are most commonly convicted of financial crimes like Theft, and Embezzlement compared to men.

This is both in regards to businesses / charities where they are often in positions of financial authority (accounts) and in regards to private individuals (Women stealing money from elderly people who are in assisted care without being aware that it's happening)

I have YET to see a single woman who do this end up with any prison sentence at all and, in every case these women use their illegally gotten funds spending on lavish life-styles including makeovers, cars, family holidays etc..

But the same defense gets trotted out time and time again; "They made an error of poor judgement in a moment of weakness"

Despite much of the offending taking place constantly over a period of years in most cases..

Its just so disgusting how lenient the criminal justice system is towards women and yet despite how lenient it is already.. apparently its still not lenient enough...

I weep for the future of our society if this gains traction..

2022-09-25T02:38:20+00:00

I remember some twats in the UK government wanted to just not incarcerate any women whatsoever.

The feminism in UK has gone nuts, that's why I left to be honest, and other things.

Scandi_Navy · 2022-09-25T09:42:45+00:00

The criminal justice system in every country was developed for men

No

First, they point out, women are much less likely to be convicted of violent crimes than men.

Yes, inequality in sentences. Oh that's not what they want.

Incarcerating women, they argue, does little to keep the public safe.

Disagree.

Medical care in the community would fix the underlying problems that cause women to commit crime

Mental healthcare would help both sexes, sure.

that cause women to commit crime

Proof?

without the immense cost

What makes the cost of a female prisoner immense compared to men?

and retraumatising effect of incarceration.

Yes the point of incarceration is a memory of consequences for actions.

Imprisoning mothers of young children can drastically affect early childhood development

Implying "early years doctrine" is right, in the face of recent scientific evidence.

often leaves their dependents much more vulnerable

Hiding behind children. While also being ok with having children in daycare 10 hours a day to work.

She partnered with Covington, who serves as co-director of the Center for Gender and Justice in California

Identity politics, who would have thought?

trauma drives women to commit crime

Proof?

women often experience gender-based violence

Sorry but men get hit and emotionally abused by women way more, and are conditioned not to do anything back or report it. Not only that, society won't lift a finger if it happens in public.

Discrimination is the problem. Are women weak or strong and empowered? Schödinger's feminist.

hawkeyepitts · 2022-09-25T03:31:17+00:00

Just about every single male in prison grew up in a dysfunctional household and experienced trauma as a child, just the same as most women who end up in prison. White collar crimes are arguably the exception. It says that 2/3 of women in prison have a dependent - so do the men!

I could break down every issue, but it’s easier to just say that every single point they make about women in prison is applicable to men in prison.

To top it off, all those guys in prison? Many of them have a girlfriend or wife who not only knew about his criminal behavior, but was a regular co-conspirator. But the SO will never even face a charge, let alone a felony conviction, despite doing the same criminal stuff as her boyfriend or husband. Birds of a feather flock together, and it’s insane how women get away crimes while their SO gets charged. Women are charged way less often than men, and get lighter sentences. For the same crime! It’s blatant discrimination.

Final note: it said something about women being in prison for petty crimes… you don’t go to prison for petty crimes, or even drug use unless it’s a felony probation violation. And even then, they probably only get a couple months in the local jail for breaking probation.

People in prison these days for drug charges are drug dealers, not users. They’re people who drove drunk and killed somebody, who robbed somebody at gunpoint, murder, rape, breaking in with force to rob the joint, sex crimes, major white collar money stuff. It’s NOT petty shit that lands you in prison. It’s mostly all significantly violent and with disregard for society.

The article tries to paint women in prison as victims, while suggesting the men are inherently evil and deserve to rot in a cell. It’s totally bullshit. Women need to be punished equally as men for committing the same crime.

rsa1x · 2022-09-25T09:23:11+00:00

But misandry isn't real they say

Lasttoflinch · 2022-09-25T03:54:28+00:00

If I remember correctly, female inmates in the UK get the privilege to don causal clothings by default while male inmates has to earn that privilege. Female inmates also get to make free phone calls while male inmates has to pay for that service.

rabel111 · 2022-09-25T07:45:03+00:00

When women's violence is ignored or applauded, there is no women's violence. In a country where rape is a crime defined as an act only committed by men, and female pedophiles are excused as a gift to children, what else should we expect.

NibblyPig · 2022-09-25T12:25:42+00:00

Men cry less when we beat them with sticks, so we'll keep doing that and be nicer to women

az226 · 2022-09-25T10:42:48+00:00

Funny and sad how selective they were with the fundamental attribution error. Woman in prison has an outburst -> she didn’t mean to do it, the prison as a bad environment made her do it

Man in prison has an outburst-> he is an aggressive and dangerous person. It’s people like him who should stay in prison and there’s a reason he’s in prison in the first place.

TheSpaceDuck · 2022-09-25T12:45:55+00:00

The new program “treats trauma through the lens of gender,” Grosvenor said. It rests on two principles: first, that trauma drives women to commit crime, and second, that because women often experience gender-based violence (such as sexual assault and domestic violence), they require different approaches from men. Now running in all 12 women’s prisons in England, it is the first system-wide roll-out of Covington’s prison programming.

OST works in three stages. First, prison staff are trained to become “trauma-informed”. Covington and Grosvenor toured each UK women’s prison to teach staff about what trauma is, how it impacts women and how it can cause violent behaviour. The links between trauma, aggression and violence are well-established; understanding behaviours that trigger someone’s trauma can avoid a violent outburst.

Imagine being this close to finding out that men committing violent crime disproportionately is a consequence of men suffering much more violence (not just as adults but also as children) and still somehow spinning that to make it about women.

That's not just bias anymore, that's fanaticism.

TheDwiin · 2022-09-25T04:56:36+00:00

First, they point out, women are much less likely to be convicted of violent crimes than men.

Ok, but what are the stats on women committing these crimes and getting out of conviction, or not even being charged because their victim was a male?

If take is included against men, how many women force themselves on men against their consent?

No-Knowledge-8867 · 2022-09-25T05:58:56+00:00

Prison is sexist to women because prison was designed for men not women. Do people think about these ideas they have before or even after writing them out?

thepogopogo · 2022-09-25T06:44:06+00:00

Those feminist rightists in charge of England love giving women leniency, because they deserve understanding and compassion, and locking up as many menas they can. Bastards.

equalRights111 · 2022-09-25T08:41:17+00:00

Some nice, wholesome equality.

C3C3Jay · 2022-09-25T10:37:15+00:00

We should be imprisoning less be by all accounts, I wish this approach was taken towards male criminals (except violent, prone recidivism)

Honestly, I cannot understand when this is policy people can in good faith argue we exist in a patriarchy.

blaizken_420 · 2022-09-25T17:42:03+00:00

63% lower sentences for the same crimes must hurt so much.

HenryCGk · 2022-09-25T03:34:41+00:00

2018, that's like 2 or 3 Prime Ministers ago

Huffers1010 · 2022-09-25T10:15:29+00:00

I'm not quite sure how some of the logic is supposed to work there.

One claim given here is that women are less likely to be violent. Okay. Sure. But it then suggests it's a good idea not to imprison them even when they are violent. That might be true (I suspect it isn't, at least not all the time, but it could be). The thing is, that's got absolutely nothing to do with the prevalence of violent women.

In short, if it's a bad idea to imprison violent women, it's a bad idea, regardless of whether violent women are common or rare. I could go on, but the whole argument is internally inconsistent no matter what anyone thinks of the facts surrounding it.

Quite often the only reasonable response to this stuff is that the argument simply doesn't make sense. It's an emotional argument built on emotional grounds - listing reasons women are nice on average and claiming it's therefore good to let individual women off the hook. If I were a woman, I'd be concerned that this sort of argument made me look silly, trivial, and hopelessly hooked on emotionality, which if I were a woman would probably be the last thing I wanted.

SecTeff · 2022-09-25T15:50:13+00:00

For a lot of crimes Prison doesn’t really work for men or women - It should be reserved for people who an active threat to others with other types of punishment and reform programs for other crimes.

It’s a shame that sone of those seeking to reform the justice system don’t care about the huge number of men in prison though

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2022-09-25T18:20:02+00:00

They will come up with any kind of excuse to make women’s lives easier even when they’re criminals.

TheeBattleMedic · 2022-09-25T19:05:23+00:00

It’s funny when a man commits a crime he deserves all the time he gets for being selfish and only thinking of himself. But when a woman commits a crime, poor her, the struggles, your taking a mother away from her kids, she’ll try to get pregnant before going to look more innocent, get special treatment. But women have it harder

Booth_Templeton · 2022-09-25T03:42:50+00:00

Lol. I always do when I read some ole horseshit like this.

Your_Agenda_Sucks · 2022-09-25T04:59:19+00:00

They could just do what we do here in the US and sentence women to like half what a man would get for the same crime.

JacktheRipperColour · 2022-09-25T14:35:42+00:00

1 there is more to danger than just physical 2 if men are more lightly to be violent, is that not a cause and symptom of post stress 3 what kind of mother gets locked up? I'm gonna call this as better off for the kids sake!

ohisama · 2022-09-25T14:12:23+00:00

Mothers when earn less salary: Motherhood penalty. Why a woman is assumed to be the primary caregiver of a child?

Mothers when they get shorter sentences: Of course we should!

countrymace · 2022-09-25T16:13:52+00:00

You guys have to stop getting mad at women trying to make things better for women. This was started by a female prison philanthropist. If we want programs and help for men, we have to start them the same way that women do.

iainmf · 2022-09-25T09:13:50+00:00

Even if women are hurt more by prison, only ~5% of prisoners are women. I'd guess that even if women are hurt more by prison there are still more men in the group of people who are most hurt by prison.

miyuru_mallawa · 2022-09-25T14:46:05+00:00

r/onejob

Nonso24 · 2022-09-25T22:21:28+00:00

Seems like we becoming slaves boys, i call for a revolution

atrain_8 · 2022-09-25T22:29:38+00:00

But eQuALitY ?

Present_Animator5025 · 2022-09-26T10:26:52+00:00

If you’ve ever been to prison, this doesn’t matter.

Good for them.

ne14611braska · 2022-09-26T20:44:26+00:00

Unfortunately, it is true, that

"The next fight, she argues, is developing systems to stop women from reaching prison in the first place."

is becoming the norm of feminist thinking - and therefore mainstream thinking. Meanwhile, men still go to jail. Prison hurts women most.

Pomper-26 · 2022-09-27T06:07:17+00:00

It is one of the washers to give women less sentences for the same crimes because they tolerate prisons worse than men.

Title	Prison hurts women more than men — so England is trying a new approach
Author	Fast-Mongoose-4989
Upvotes	421
Comments	91
Date	September 24, 2022 11:58 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xn80ei/prison_hurts_women_more_than_men_so_england_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/prison-hurts-women-more-than-men-so-england-is.1131820 https://theredarchive.com/post/1131820