Political spectra aren't binomial, guys (even if your government pretends to). There's a whole range of ideas people can have, and surprise surprise, most are somewhere in the middle.
Cable 'news' has really done a number on this in my opinion. You're either watching far right or far left news, and you're slowly brainwashed to see the opposing party as radical politicians.
Its stupid, but lets be fair part of this sub is visited by red pillers and I won't be surprised at this point by alt right users. It would help this sub and that MRA's in general to fight against such ideology popping up in the group.
Instead we should all hold hands with the regressive CTRL+Left who've been the architects of most of our misery? I find it incredibly funny how as the pendulum begins its shift so many are demanding we come out in favor of those who have sought so hard to destroy us. Traditionalists may have allowed themselves to be cucked into supporting some horrendous things but never forget which side Feminists have made their homes on.
Anyone falling for this shtick where the alt-right is accused of racism has completely forgotten how we've been mislabeled over the years and how the Left has tried to make us fall into their game of 'Let's you and him fight' over and over. This is more of the same.
There is a crossover of "lingo" between you guys in here and people from the donald or the red pill. Reading the anger and use of words like "SJW" "Woke" while moaning about feminism or "the left" gives off that vibe.
I get it, though I do. There are clear issues men face where they are discriminated against and more at risk. False rape claims. Civil courts for divorce. There are LOTS of examples where men are well and truly screwed over.
If you guys simply focused on that issue and didn't make it about right or left then it would be harder to argue with. So rather than coming off as a group who are looking for equal right amongst all genders it comes off as quite right wing and jingoistic.
In the UK some have, David Blunket supported the idea of shared parenting so did George Galloway. While Corbyn didn't.
There is divide in all the parties over in the UK when it comes to this. It's really not left vs. right. over here at least.
Word's like woke are linked to the KKK. Waking up to see the white race needs to be protected etc. Things like that shine a lot of doubt on arguments that's all I was getting at.
Yeah but thats why i think you sound arrogant and immature. Which when youre trying to win over people for a cause or achieve realistic positive changes to laws people like me stop listening when it comes off so low level and turns to name calling.
Basically from the way you just wrote i feel like i dont want to listen to you. Which is counter productive if your trying to inspire change.
I don't normally post comments or even read the front page, but it's the weekend and some stuff happened yesterday. I'm not really interested in puzzling out some random guy out of millions on the internet.
That guy in particular is off the deep end and you won't change his mind. You are potentially affecting more reasonable people who read through the thread though.
Convincing me of what? I'm already convinced that men are worse off than women in some courts and some other specific circumstances.
But my original point that people in this sub seem a bit hostile and resort to name calling hasn't exactly been disproven by the way some of you lot have replied lol.
I don't even see myself as an opponent to the general idea of there needing to be more rights for men when it comes to SOME legal situations.
My complaint was the tone here really, like you pointed out. "You leftists". It's just hostile isn't it?
This like 2x chromosomes, SRS and all that sort of over the top dramatic crap puts me off discussions. I'm open to new ideas and discussion but I can't deal with the over the top insulting attitudes and labelling. It's embarrassing.
Oh, is this the part where we alienate the "other"? Don't sabotage your movement by espousing identity politics and alienating half your base.
Responding to the edited version.
How does supporting men not result in identity politics? How are we supposed to avoid alienating" half our base" when so many men have fallen for the whole 'last good man' delusion and are actively against their fellow men getting equality?
It's not as though most men woke up this morning and decided they hate women and wanted to rule over them in a twisted Gor fantasy. Most men love women and had to be taught to show their anger when mistreated by them. It took getting smacked with the reality of Feminism on an institutional level to make us change our behavior.
Identity politics? They're already in effect and pretending otherwise just means wandering through a battlefield getting shot at by all sides. There is a gender war going on and the sex we were born with are our uniforms. It's a uniform we can't take off. All we can do is fight for our own side and try to be as fair as possible in our personal lives but even there the fighting never really stops.
If nothing else the example of Warren Farrell ought to have made that clear. You really couldn't ask for more of an egalitarian, and what did that get him? They still call him a nazi racist homophobic misogynist.
Edited to better fit my point and be less divisive. /u/Frankly_George has the original below.
If you want to edit the text why not use strikeout code to maintain the original text?
You simply use two of these: ~
You use two of them on each side of the text you wish to strike from the post. Like so.
Good luck with that. In order for people to be convinced you need to be able to approach a subject with an open mind. When your opponents cloak everything in conspiracy theories (Patriarchy!) or blatantly refuse to see the evidence in front of their eyes to the point where they misconstrue it rather than violate the narrative (Rape Culture!) then there's no possible way to change their mind. In order to have your mind changed you must be willing to be wrong.
Funny thing about political wars; the more you "fight", the less likely you are to win.
Choosing not to fire back when fired upon not only doesn't remove the bullets from working it also 'confirms' to onlookers that you must be guilty or you'd fight back. As I said our uniforms are our sex, given to us at birth. All refusing to fire back does is provide comfort to your enemies, it doesn't stop them from firing at you or trying to take you down.
Just for fun, search through some of the biggest takedowns of feminists against those they claim are guilty of some offense. Looking through their history and previous associations--how many of them were once considered allies until they stepped out of line to dispute the narrative?
Because you're not recruiting the person you're arguing with, you're recruiting from among those who hear and read the two of you arguing. Better arguments and pointed barbs win the hearts and minds of those who look in. Win enough of those and you marginalize your enemy.
there is no place for racism in /r/mensrights. It's not just for one group of men, but all men. and for that matter it's for equal rights, which is what people dont understand.
I'm not white in the slightest and I'm a white supremacist now. I have faced racism due to my skin colour. These dumb privileged white women don't know how easier they have it.
Basically any deviation from the left's views is labelled as nazi white supremacy.
It's like they see it as the good guys and the bad guys. The good guys are the people on the left, feminists, BLM, etc., then the bad guys are everybody else. And then they are justified in shutting down any discussion, equating any view they don't like with white supremacy.
The rage that follows anyone stating anything but the official left line is surprising. Literally someone simply observing the fact that women are often emotionally different to men (seriously how can people who have met a man and a woman question this?) is sexist woman hating white supremacy and therefore not open to discussion.
It's insane that the left, who would claim to try to protect people's rights, so quickly moves to silence people who disagree with them.
So these pansy ass bitches think that complaining about SJWs is radical behavior, instead of you know, terrorism. Its really sad to see other people who aren't emotionally crippled by their mental disability willingly lower themselves to that level of softness and overreaction where they equate dissent with terrorism.
Because nearly every post that gets anywhere on the sub has nothing to do with men's rights.... just a thought. I mean go find some top material that is about rights from your sub.
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Cable 'news' has really done a number on this in my opinion. You're either watching far right or far left news, and you're slowly brainwashed to see the opposing party as radical politicians.
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Instead we should all hold hands with the regressive CTRL+Left who've been the architects of most of our misery? I find it incredibly funny how as the pendulum begins its shift so many are demanding we come out in favor of those who have sought so hard to destroy us. Traditionalists may have allowed themselves to be cucked into supporting some horrendous things but never forget which side Feminists have made their homes on.
Anyone falling for this shtick where the alt-right is accused of racism has completely forgotten how we've been mislabeled over the years and how the Left has tried to make us fall into their game of 'Let's you and him fight' over and over. This is more of the same.
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From an outsider here is my honest answer.
There is a crossover of "lingo" between you guys in here and people from the donald or the red pill. Reading the anger and use of words like "SJW" "Woke" while moaning about feminism or "the left" gives off that vibe.
I get it, though I do. There are clear issues men face where they are discriminated against and more at risk. False rape claims. Civil courts for divorce. There are LOTS of examples where men are well and truly screwed over.
If you guys simply focused on that issue and didn't make it about right or left then it would be harder to argue with. So rather than coming off as a group who are looking for equal right amongst all genders it comes off as quite right wing and jingoistic.
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In the UK some have, David Blunket supported the idea of shared parenting so did George Galloway. While Corbyn didn't.
There is divide in all the parties over in the UK when it comes to this. It's really not left vs. right. over here at least.
Word's like woke are linked to the KKK. Waking up to see the white race needs to be protected etc. Things like that shine a lot of doubt on arguments that's all I was getting at.
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Yeah but thats why i think you sound arrogant and immature. Which when youre trying to win over people for a cause or achieve realistic positive changes to laws people like me stop listening when it comes off so low level and turns to name calling.
Basically from the way you just wrote i feel like i dont want to listen to you. Which is counter productive if your trying to inspire change.
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I mean this goes both ways. If you can't accept criticism of SJW's, then I'm not interested in your opinion either.
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He's a condescending asshole who's views were decided long ago. If you want to talk to him go nuts, but I assume it's a waste of time.
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I don't normally post comments or even read the front page, but it's the weekend and some stuff happened yesterday. I'm not really interested in puzzling out some random guy out of millions on the internet.
That guy in particular is off the deep end and you won't change his mind. You are potentially affecting more reasonable people who read through the thread though.
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Im the buyer not the seller.
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Doesn't matter, there's a target audience. You get tagged as a waste of time. There's no convincing you so I move on for efficiency's sake.
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Convincing me of what? I'm already convinced that men are worse off than women in some courts and some other specific circumstances.
But my original point that people in this sub seem a bit hostile and resort to name calling hasn't exactly been disproven by the way some of you lot have replied lol.
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I don't even see myself as an opponent to the general idea of there needing to be more rights for men when it comes to SOME legal situations.
My complaint was the tone here really, like you pointed out. "You leftists". It's just hostile isn't it?
This like 2x chromosomes, SRS and all that sort of over the top dramatic crap puts me off discussions. I'm open to new ideas and discussion but I can't deal with the over the top insulting attitudes and labelling. It's embarrassing.
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Supporting men is identity politics.
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Responding to the edited version.
How does supporting men not result in identity politics? How are we supposed to avoid alienating" half our base" when so many men have fallen for the whole 'last good man' delusion and are actively against their fellow men getting equality?
It's not as though most men woke up this morning and decided they hate women and wanted to rule over them in a twisted Gor fantasy. Most men love women and had to be taught to show their anger when mistreated by them. It took getting smacked with the reality of Feminism on an institutional level to make us change our behavior.
Identity politics? They're already in effect and pretending otherwise just means wandering through a battlefield getting shot at by all sides. There is a gender war going on and the sex we were born with are our uniforms. It's a uniform we can't take off. All we can do is fight for our own side and try to be as fair as possible in our personal lives but even there the fighting never really stops.
If nothing else the example of Warren Farrell ought to have made that clear. You really couldn't ask for more of an egalitarian, and what did that get him? They still call him a nazi racist homophobic misogynist.
If you want to edit the text why not use strikeout code to maintain the original text?
You simply use two of these: ~
You use two of them on each side of the text you wish to strike from the post.
Like so.[–]swifter_than_shadow 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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swifter_than_shadow posted:
Good luck with that. In order for people to be convinced you need to be able to approach a subject with an open mind. When your opponents cloak everything in conspiracy theories (Patriarchy!) or blatantly refuse to see the evidence in front of their eyes to the point where they misconstrue it rather than violate the narrative (Rape Culture!) then there's no possible way to change their mind. In order to have your mind changed you must be willing to be wrong.
swifter_than_shadow posted:
Choosing not to fire back when fired upon not only doesn't remove the bullets from working it also 'confirms' to onlookers that you must be guilty or you'd fight back. As I said our uniforms are our sex, given to us at birth. All refusing to fire back does is provide comfort to your enemies, it doesn't stop them from firing at you or trying to take you down.
Just for fun, search through some of the biggest takedowns of feminists against those they claim are guilty of some offense. Looking through their history and previous associations--how many of them were once considered allies until they stepped out of line to dispute the narrative?
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swifter_than_shadow posted:
Because you're not recruiting the person you're arguing with, you're recruiting from among those who hear and read the two of you arguing. Better arguments and pointed barbs win the hearts and minds of those who look in. Win enough of those and you marginalize your enemy.
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there is no place for racism in /r/mensrights. It's not just for one group of men, but all men. and for that matter it's for equal rights, which is what people dont understand.
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For some reason they think equal treatment for men and women is misogyny. Jesus Christ.
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I have never heard it phrased like this before, but I am going to start using it now. Thanks
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Or posted to /r/asablackman because to them the color of your skin determines and defines all of your political leanings.
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I'm not white in the slightest and I'm a white supremacist now. I have faced racism due to my skin colour. These dumb privileged white women don't know how easier they have it.
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It's a worrying trend.
Basically any deviation from the left's views is labelled as nazi white supremacy.
It's like they see it as the good guys and the bad guys. The good guys are the people on the left, feminists, BLM, etc., then the bad guys are everybody else. And then they are justified in shutting down any discussion, equating any view they don't like with white supremacy.
The rage that follows anyone stating anything but the official left line is surprising. Literally someone simply observing the fact that women are often emotionally different to men (seriously how can people who have met a man and a woman question this?) is sexist woman hating white supremacy and therefore not open to discussion.
It's insane that the left, who would claim to try to protect people's rights, so quickly moves to silence people who disagree with them.
[–]Atheist101 49 points50 points51 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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At my university students get in real trouble for shit they post online. Report him to your faculty. Now.
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Radicalized by kotaku in action???
So these pansy ass bitches think that complaining about SJWs is radical behavior, instead of you know, terrorism. Its really sad to see other people who aren't emotionally crippled by their mental disability willingly lower themselves to that level of softness and overreaction where they equate dissent with terrorism.
[+]SterlingGrey1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Have you been there lately? It's not what it used to be, to say the least.
"This is how you get hit with a car. Eventually people get fed up and snap."
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[+]Factushima1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I assume he is being reported? Typical leftist hate monger.
Remember: when idiots like this are hysterical thats how you know that you are getting your message out and it is effective.
Keep up the good work.
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[+]joepaulpavlin1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Because nearly every post that gets anywhere on the sub has nothing to do with men's rights.... just a thought. I mean go find some top material that is about rights from your sub.
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