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Sorry if this is a repost but this seems relevant

November 5, 2019
3168 upvotes
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Post Information
Title Sorry if this is a repost but this seems relevant
Author thealleycatking
Upvotes 3168
Comments 102
Date November 5, 2019 1:56 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MensRights
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sorry-if-this-is-a-repost-but-this-seems-relevant.865523
https://theredarchive.com/post/865523
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/drzgmj/sorry_if_this_is_a_repost_but_this_seems_relevant/
Comments

[–][deleted] 138 points139 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

realsexism.com for a full list

[–]xingped 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Huh can't load it

[–]Bennyj241 250 points251 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately everyone who even tries to bring up an argument like this would just be publicly berated for supporting a "male patriarchy"

[–]themolestedsliver 105 points106 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The fact that you get criticized for calling out obvious sexism in the form of "#NoTaLlMeN" is the most frustrating part of this debate.

If i said "women are loose" after my gf fooled around with my best friend you would sure as shit see people call me a sexist/misogynist/mad at women because i dated a cheater. But saying "men are pigs who only care about sex" is fine because "tHeY oBvIoUsLy dIdN't MeAn AlL mEn" which makes ZERO sense....

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your first mistake is trying to use logic.

[–]Stretch5 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Logic is one of the only few truths

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Logic is valid / invalid, not true / false.

Propositions can be true or false. But in human affairs they are commonly a bit of both plus a list of exceptions and maybe a few pages to clarify what the propositions actually mean. And a list of books to explain the context. But no life experience obviously, because what would actual experience of life ever have to do with being human? /s

So applying your nice simple logical reasoning to real life might work fine, or it may be illuminating but unresolvably controversial, or it may reveal you to be a fool for thinking it was feasible.

BTW I'll just sneak this in here: The 6x male suicide ratio is only true for a few ex-Soviet states with extremely high male alcoholism. For most western countries it is about 3x.
USA is 3.5x currently. Used to be 4x but increasing feminism has reduced it since the 90s. Or gun purchasing restrictions, take your pick.

[–]SharedRegime 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing about hypocrisy is that the hypocrite cant actually see that theyre being a hypocrite usually.

[–]Roary93 28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, did this on Twitter by trying to say DV isn't a one way street in the comment section of a tv show here in Australia (Q&A) where they had a while bunch of radical feminists take over the show and go on about patriarchy, DV etc and got berated for it, even by a bunch of SJW. Told them to explain what patriarchy is and am yet to get a response. One panelist was asked what positive masculinity is and her exact reply was "I have no clue". They don't even know what they're talking about or what they want. It was effectively a man bashing episode with no chance of retort.

[–]King_Baboon 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will fight every feminist who is against good fathers wanting more time with their kids. The court system (especially in Ohio) is unbelievably biased.

[–]AbysmalDescent 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You could add that to the list of male problems that need to be looked at: the gross distortion and misrepresentation of men through history and misappropriation of blame placed on men by modern feminism.

[–]mrkeifer86 84 points85 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Story time:

Ive been in heavy debates about alienated fathers and family courts. I have a comment im going to say that sounds assinie af. But it needs to be said to prove my point on all of this nonsense.

My main question: why are men paying for rights to his children that he should already have?

This is for the women who support family court laws.
Imagine: you give birth to your child and the government comes in and takes your child away. The only way to get your child back is to pay thousands for rights.

Imagine how you would feel. Imagine the pain, sorrow, and hardship you have to go through.

Thats what us alienated fathers deal with. We as a society can make real change happen. Men should automatically have the same rights the mothers have when they give birth. In the intrest of equality. I hope this post gets some sort of discussion or reactions. And best case scenario, maybe change your views on family court and its corrupt laws againest fathers.

Heres the kicker, as we all know alot of people dont have money like that. So you cant afford family court on top of your monthly expenses. Look up the stat on people living paycheck to paycheck

[–]IronJohnMRA 16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My main question: why are men paying for rights to his children that he should already have?

And thats a really good question. Please keep using it. Heck, I might even use it myself, if you don't mind?

[–]mrkeifer86 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Use it. Use this whole sceneario to ruffle some feathers. Its time we get shit change to benefit use fathers as well. I havent seen my daughter in 11 yeara at this point. And my mental state is not at a good area. I like thousands of other fathers have beem struggleing with child access issues for so long its killing use day by day.

[–]SharedRegime 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

shit im married to my sons mother and love her to death but with my work schedule and his school i only see him twice a week and thats hard enough. I cant imagine what you deal with.

[–]HNutz 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men unfortunately don't have the same options before a kid is born.

Why would that change afterwards?

[–]mrkeifer86 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're asking the wrong question bud. The question is "why cant it change?" But you are right. Men dont have a out like women do with abortion.

[–]armed_renegade 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I don't understand is that child support is a thing because with parental rights comes parental responsibilities. And in the cases of sperm donors, and when you give a child up for adoption you give up those rights so then you don't have to pay the responsibilities.

How is it justified that men, who are barred from seeing their children at all, are still forced to pay child support. You can't take away his rights but make him pay his responsibilities as well.

And honestly custody should be 50/50, any difference to 50/50 custody should result in like for like difference of child support.

[–]fumeck60 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"with parental rights come parental responsibilities", that always comes with a disclaimer: need not apply to women. Are you new, because you seem like you haven't fully processed the cheat that is, 'responsibility is abuse when applied to a woman'.

The 1st wave said, we want rights. The Men said, rights come with responsibility. The Women said, sure. But then the next wave comes along and says, we want more rights, oh and responsibility is oppressive. So the next wave of men say sure. Rinse, Rise, repeat. Now women hold most of the cards, despite occupying little of the positions. And the feminist lies, like 1 in 4, etc. Those are getting to be over 50 years old at this point. The stats haven't changed in 3 generations*; as if no laws, no judges, no or etc. have changed either. Intersectionalists might as well use the black community more by saying we're all still getting lynched. But that would might acknowledging there are enough trees left on the planet, so that would not be "inclusive" of the environmentalists.

*This maybe a way to have people question the claims of Feminism; the false statistics haven't changed in 60 years, how effective can Feminism be?

[–]solemnweasel343 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe some day, we'll all be living, where the list is just one or two things

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

more likely it will get larger

[–]solemnweasel343 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As will the amount of genders that are not equal but above male. Now i don't wanna live anymore

[–]Rad_Knight 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Things like this have been posted a lot, but for a very good reason.

[–]whatafoolishsquid 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's crazy man. For any other demographic, this exact shit is used as evidence of their oppression. For men... it's evidence of our privilege somehow?

[–]avery-secret-account 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My stepdad just got out of child abuse charges so the last one really hits home for me

[–]AdamChap 23 points24 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Remember only circumcising baby boys is fine. DON'T EVER SUGGEST THAT FEMALE MUTILATION COULD BE CALLED CIRCUMCISION

"ITS NOT THE SAME"

[–]Hyperius_III 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I want my foreskin back!

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

This is unhelpful. Both female and male circumcision are wrong.

As soon as you create division between the sexes you are sunk.

We should work together to make things better for everyone.

[–]AdamChap 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Sorry Charlotte, I have to disagree. Female gentital mutilation is illegal in my county (UK) and most other countries. Male circumcision is a choice presented to mothers when they give birth to a boy.

"As soon as you create division between the sexes you are sunk."

Its you, and the countries we live in that 'divide the sexes', after all I'm not the one legally propping up male circumcision. To suggest MY comments are responsible for division is to admit there is nothing I can say without someone wanting to jump on a high horse and look down on those willing to speak the truth

The law is not equal, so neither is my rhetoric

[–]Charlotte_Sometime -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Its you

No, it's not me.

Circumcision is not offered to mothers in my country, if wanted it needs to be organised privately. It is not illegal but it is rare.

Grown men can and do also opt to be circumcised, so there's that factor as well to consider.

I don't suggest your comments are responsible for the division, but your comments don't help anything.

[–]AdamChap 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"Circumcision is not offered to mothers in my country, if wanted it needs to be organised privately. It is not illegal but it is rare. "

So IT IS offered to mothers then? I'm not talking about state healthcare necessarily - if thats what you are talking about. If you can organise it privately, that still means you have the option.

"Grown men can and do also opt to be circumcised, so there's that factor as well to consider. "

Yeah, I know... There are women that choose to be mutilated too! Even young girls who opt to be circumcised.

Only doctors should prescribe such surgery, when medically necessary or preferable! Men who choose to be circumcised might have just been conditioned by 99% of porn that shows mutilated genitalia, or maybe their partners have pressured them - who knows, something to consider huh?

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So IT IS offered to mothers then?

No, if a woman gives birth anywhere in my country (Australia) and is ignorant of circumcision the hospital staff aren't going to school her.

Parents in my country have to actively search for a trained and willing doctor to do it.

Since Australia is fairly non religious it's pretty rare to even hear of boys being circumcised nowadays.

There are women that choose to be mutilated too! Even young girls who opt to be circumcised.

Source? Please link me to one source that a grown woman opted to be circumcised.

Children, neither male nor female can consent to medical procedures so your claim that girls opt to be circumcised is untrue.

Men making medical decisions for themselves is none of my business. I do know it is sometimes necessary if they have something wrong medically like a foreskin that they can't retract.

But grown men have agency so I wouldn't seek to remove their right to choose.

[–]AdamChap 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"I think grown women have agency. We should legalise FGM so it can be done in a medical setting. Shouldn't be taking choice away from women right?"

This issue is always looked upon as MGM is something men do to themselves and FGM is something men do to women. You can't even believe a single woman would want to be mutilated?

neither male nor female can consent to medical procedures so your claim that girls opt to be circumcised is untrue.

I meant that girls can feel that they want it done to them, as can boys - whether or not they actually have the capacity to consent. Pressured by religion, friends, family and culture.

You are trying to prove me wrong rather than understand me. Everything you hate about FGM is part and parcel of male circumcision - you either can't see it or wont.

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where’s the link I asked for?

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If women wanted FGM then yes it should be legalised.

I think you’ve found that women don’t though and that’s why you haven’t provided the link which shows that some adult women willingly undertake the procedure as adults.

I noticed you changed my quote about children not being able to consent to suit your own agenda. So straight away you are losing.

I restate: circumcising children of either gender is wrong.

You’re being a dick. Your arguments aren’t furthering your cause.

Wake up to yourself.

[–]superhobo666 -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The division was made 100 years ago by the rich women who founded the feminism movement, and by the following 100 years of women holding their hands out for feminism and taking everything not nailed down while demanding we bend over and accept it or go to jail.

Fuck right off with that concern trolling "oh but we wouldn't want to be sexist now would we" horse shit. Women took the first shots in this fight, women advocated and support the removal of mens rights, mistreatment of men, statistical manipulation in regards to mens issues, and anti-male classrooms, workplaces, courts, and society in general.

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're being a dick.

Sexism against either gender is damaging to all of us and to society in general.

[–]superhobo666 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not being a dick, I'm being honest.

But (also) honestly, its pretty common for women to lash out and call people dicks when they get told a cold truth they don't want to hear, I got to grow up around majority women for the first 20 years of my life, I know this from experience.

Once again. Feminism took everything, took every shot, made every manipulation of the courts, the schools, and the legal system, defends genital mutilation against men while calling the exact same procedure a hate crime when done to them. Fuck you, and fuck women loke you who cry sexism as a shield to ignore the history of what you've done as a group.

All I can say is I hope women smarten the fuck up real quick before we end up with the majority of men being disenfranchised with no hope, with nothing left but rage and desperation. If they think they have it so tough right now with every legal and social protection available in the WORLD to them, they have no idea how much danger they're in if they keep following the path they're on.

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry your experiences have left you hurt and angry.

I think you should see a professional about your anger issues.

I don't know what else to say.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

iM insEcUre sO i blAme iT On mEn bC i tHink thEy Are FiNe wiTh iT

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair old boomer men are to blame for some of these

[–]HierEncore 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

it's not just a number of shelters. It's the incredible unfair difference between them. Women shelters are most elite single private rooms. Sometimes share with one or two other people. Men's shelters are typically one giant room with a hundred beds.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men's "shelters" are shelter from the rain. They are often quite dangerous, which is why men with children are not admitted.

The claim that there are plenty of shelters for men rests upon the assumption that they will abandon their children, leaving them with their abuser. That will set up the mother to be the permanent lead carer because she is the established main carer.

[–]memeyross 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude that homeless shelter one hit, in my town there are like 4 homeless shelters theyre all for girls or for women not a single one for me (16 year old male) or for male adults. And i live in canada when i was homeless i had to tresspass on land just to not die in the cold.

[–]logic11 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, being homeless here in winter is unbelievable. I did it thirty years ago, I remember breaking into places just to stay warm

[–]ZacEfronButUgly 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thankfully a lot of these issues are getting a lot more attention as of recent

[–]boringcarpets 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Colttaine put some of this in context . Its a long one but well worth it

[–]destination-venus 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Toxic masculinity hurts men too"

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

These things are all true and they do deserve more attention. But that doesn’t mean that men are more oppressed than women. Men and women face different types of oppression and they both deserve attention. Breast cancer and prostate cancer are both devastating, why are you trying to pin one against the other? Can’t we just say cancer impacts all people in truly terrible ways?

I feel like treating it like it’s some type of competition entirely misses the points on both sides. Sexual assault is an issue for everyone. Domestic violence is an issue for everyone. Cancer is an issue for everyone. Awesome.

[–]Senpai59210 25 points26 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree, but it seems like a lot of these issues get completely overlooked

[–]DebateBoy 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OH, HOW DARE SOMEONE BRING UP MEN'S ISSUES. don't you know that "that doesn’t mean that men are more oppressed than women." (something that wasn't actually claimed)

I mean, FOR RAealLZ "Men and women face different types of oppression and they both deserve attention." as you continue to minimize the issues men face at higher rates, or are ignored for and instead just lump them in with the same problems women face and call it good.

Breast cancer and prostate cancer are both devastating, why are you trying to pin one against the other?

  • He wasn't. He was pointing out that breast cancer gets attention, while prostate cancer doesn't (at the same rate), despite having similarly devastating effects. He wasn't saying one matters more, he was pointing out that they should be treated equally, but aren't.

Can’t we just say cancer impacts all people in truly terrible ways?

  • Because you don't want to actually engage in the issue, which is that society cares less about men with cancer, than women with cancer. So you want to hide the ball, by saying cancer effects everyone. Preserving the status quo, or the feminist movement status quo anyway.

DoNt YoU KNoW tHat FemInisM is FoR MeN Too!

Obviously if we fix all of women's problems that will fix men's problems too /s

Sexual assault is an issue for everyone. Domestic violence is an issue for everyone. Cancer is an issue for everyone.

  • All this serves to do, in the context of this discussion, is to hide the issue being discussed, which is that men are not treated equally on these issues. Which is a separate issue from them effecting everyone, and being bad. When someone says "hey I see a disparity between how much society cares about men with cancer vs women with cancer, that seems unfair" and your reaction is "hey man, cancer effects everyone" you're ignoring / purposefully avoiding the actual point of the conversation, because you don't care about men or men's issues. You think they should be minimized, or re-categorized as "everyone's issues"

It's pretty shitty of you.

[–]FoolJones 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. In the text that OP posted there isn't a 'fight' happening nor does it shows a competition...

[–]PerimoOmnes 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not the fact that men are “more oppressed”, it’s the problem of conscientization. Prostate cancer is not nearly as well known as breast cancer, and no it’s not a competition. The problem is not many people know about it so no one will go get a checkup(until you have to at 45 or whatever the age is).

This post is there to spread awareness, not to play victim. I think you’re trying to make it seem like OP is playing victim. Nice try!

[–]rwp80 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Smash the patriarchy”

[–]TheRealPirateSamurai 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

posted this on r/Feminism, let's see how badly I get downvoted

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The fake 6x suicide ratio should get picked up quickly there.

[–]Eastuss 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you want to share this around, put the sources with it. Last time I checked suicide rates were x3, and prostate cancer was receiving sightly less funding while taking less years of life expectancy all around.

[–]Ye_olde_quagswagger 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm still waiting for at least one battered men's shelter.

[–]DoktorLuciferWong 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We need to increase the female suicide rate to bring it up to par /sarc for the dumdums

[–]Bannyflaster 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do I get to call myself disenfranchised yet?

[–]Fumby3 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well children need homeless shelters more than adults but everything else 100% people need to acknowledge more

[–]Charlotte_Sometime 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, how do we begin to address these issues?

It's all well and good to point them out but without a plan of action nothing will change.

I'd be happy to donate my time/ money to these issues. I am especially interested in points 3 & 7.

So where to begin?

[–]Flowmeyo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

WE want equality

[–]onbakeplatinum 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Aren't transgenders #1 for suicide rate?

[–]Filberty 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I recall correctly, they have a rate of ~40%

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The trans suicide rate is high but not that high. 40% might be attempts, or suicidal ideation.

[–]Women_Do_Suck 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What’re the stats comparing breast to prostate cancer? Mortality, morbidity, etc.

[–]chambertlo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

BuT mUh FeMaLe OpPrEsSiOn!!!!

[–]Nergaal -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

These are all exaggerated. Ratio is 3.5-to1 suicides. Talking about male issues like feminists talk about the wage gap is not helpful.

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

3x is typical for the English speaking world, and most western countries. The US is higher at 3.5 or so. Ex Soviet Union and CIS states are more like 4x - 6x.

[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

most readers here care about the English speaking world, as males seem to be slightly less abused in CIS

[–]antilopes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The suicide ratios, for what they are worth, suggest men in the CIS have a much worse time than women.
There are other factors, possibly men have been affected much more than women by the political changes in the CIS.
Alcoholism being more of a male problem there may be cultural, but alcoholism overall is strongly associated with systemic problems as seen in chronic unemployment and in aboriginal populations around the world when they do not adopt or are rejected by conquering cultures. So I would not be so sure men in the former CIS are treated better than in the west.

Trigger warning: I am going to mention toxic masculinity.
The very little I know about Eastern European men suggests concepts of masculinity that carry a higher suicide risk.

[–]FollowGodsCommand -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men died for our freedom, shaped the society, defended us from foreign invaders. What did the women do other than taking 50% of a man’s net worth, and his future earnings(alimony). Something tells me to destroy this unjust justice system by a nuke

[–]Stretch5 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe except for the prostate stats, this may be true. But people who truly don’t care about the difference of male and females are thinking right. Sexism is a thing but it is not logical nor will it ever be. Take control of your own life, own it, and don’t expect anyone to help. And appreciate the ones who do.

[–]KxNight -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Male suicide is 6 times higher?? Last time I checked it was 75% of suicides were male which is 3 times higher? I wont believe that till I see a source.

[–]Retrovex -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men, fix these lmao like everything else

[–]swimgirl222 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was overhearing a professor saying to some med students by the time you're around 40 or something like that, you already are developing prostate cancer in some form.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man up

[–]RAClSM_CEO -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But because the world is run by stupid and sexist feminists, all of the real problems will never be solved.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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