Men are sent to jail if they have babies and can't afford to pay for them and their mothers.
Only if they don't live with their family
Women, on the other hand, are given benefits and housing.
Only if they do live with their family.
I agree things aren't fair, but at the very least we should try to be accurate when describing the situation. The easiest way to lose an argument is to overstate your case. If you have a good case, then describe the situation accurately and don't embellish to make it seem worse than it actually is.
That's undoubtedly true in some situations, but let's not distort the case you're trying to make by claiming it's the most common way that divorces work out. And if we're being accurate we should also keep in mind the rates that men and women choose not to live with their kids/families.
Sure, some situations are more likely to work out in a bad way for men and they're more likely to work out in other bad ways for women. I think that means we can identify two problems:
We're not doing a great job of preventing people from ending up in bad life situations resulting from entirely reasonable choices. We could likely improve everyone's well being by taking a more rational, and less emotional, perspective during these difficult situations.
We're treating men and women differently. Sometimes this works out better for the men, sometimes better for the women, occasionally, worse for both. Probably this is due to biased views that aren't based on any evidence, and so we could likely improve outcomes for both men and women (ie. everyone) by treating everyone equally.
The US has the highest incarceration rate (of men) of any first world nation
Of anyone. And I agree that's a huge problem, but I don't think the solution is to start locking up women at the same rates as men. Especially since the high rates are overwhelmingly the result of the 'war on drugs', which is a completely different issue.
I'm 100% on board. I think this is a significant problem in our society. But I don't think that blaming women helps at all, if anything it probably distracts from the real problem. Both men and women can be poor and suffer from these same problems.
So you're acknowledging there are problems with gender based expectations in society but belittling those who are trying to do something about it? Seems counterproductive no? More rights for women=more equal society=men feel less of a need to 'provide'=less bullshit winwinwinwinwin
The woman shouldn't be provided with "public housing". Stealing people's money isn't justifiable, even if the money is used to help women that got pregnant by a lowlife man.
I don't live in USA so correct me if I'm wrong but judging solely from picture my understanding would be that females that don't have enough money to support kids that are in their care would be given public housing and men that don't pay child support would be sent to jail. Just looking at this photograph it seems to me that someone is trying to misrepresent actual situation. Surely woman that don't pay child support would be sent to jail too and man with kids in their care without enough resources would be given some kind of public housing and not sent to jail?
Just kidding, except not really. A situation where the mother pays child support to the father is unlikely to happen, as in the US, the courts heavily favor the mother in determining custody.
I have full custody of my 15 year old son. 13 years ago a judge told me he wasn't going to set an amount of support for my ex-wife to pay. He told me to come to an agreement with her that is reasonable. I get a whopping $200/mo. for my son while for my daughter from another woman, I have to pay almost $500 - it was over $1200 when she was in daycare.
Based on the money we make - I make just a bit more than my daughter's mom. And my son's make makes just a bit less than me. The problem I have is that I am single while both of my ex's have remarried - both to men that are making decent money. So now they both live a much better life as their husbands income is NOT calculated as part of support.
I think it's crap that HOUSEHOLD income isn't used for the calculations - I understand that my daughters step-dad isn't responsible for her, but he is adding a lot of income to the household which allows my ex to drive expensive vehicles while also taking as much as she can from me in child support. So now I struggle to pay my bills while she's doing just fine. I just don't get it.
Also my son's mom defaulted on support for 3 years. The judge did nothing - no back pay was ordered. When she started paying again he pretty much smacked her on the hand and said don't do that again.
This needs to be a more common line of thought. Nothing will ever change to be more equitable so long as men continue to have children and get hosed by family courts. Business will just continue as usual.
Hi, I worked for a NJ county sherrif's office for a few years. I've met enough CO's, enough to know that they aren't smart enough to know what the term interchanging is, let alone the pedantry between jail and prison. That said, /u/BiffordT isn't wrong. So please, /u/boss_300, intellectually undress yourself and explain the difference.
What are you talking about. Single parents get support including single dad's. Women who don't pay court enforced child support to to jail too.
You actually are pointing out yes it's grossly unfair for everyone that courts are more likely to appoint the woman as the primary care giver. But don't invent bs that the sanctions are sexist.
Yeah from reading into it, the whole way they only focus on male perpetrators is ridiculous. But my point still stands. I think we have different definitions of what we mean when we say 'written into law' or 'legislated'. From what I can decipher from their vague-as-hell website, The Duluth Programme is a counselling therapy, it's an intervention programme. I'm talking about the laws and statutes that the courts use to determine their decision. The problem at the core of it is the same: that people hold assumptions about old gender roles totally clouding the facts of the case.
I agree with you there's a bias but I think the bias is in the attitudes of the people driving the enforcement of the law, not in the system itself. OP is suggesting that the law somehow says "men go to prison, women get a house". That's not the law. The law is that the court-appointed primary caregiver gets support. the non-caregiver parent that defies a court order to make payment goes to prison.
Why can't we have a conversation about why the caregiver parent is so disproportionately denied to fathers in the first place? It's because the lawyers and defendants and the judges and the clerks in the courtroom have this assumption "well the mum is best to raise the kid, the dude just pays money". This idea fucks everyone over.
Where have you got the idea that I don't believe that fathers and mothers are treated equally. I explicitly said its grossly unfair that the gender split is so different. The reason Fathers are treated so badly by the law is because of this bullshit idea that "mums get to raise the child, dads aren't caregivers they just put the bread on the table". That' s an idea from the 20's that dicks over everyone.
OP is suggesting that the law somehow says "men go to prison, women get a house". That's not the law. The law is that the court-appointed primary caregiver gets support. the non-caregiver parent that defies a court order to make payment goes to prison. OP is totally missing the bigger picture and the real crux of the problem, which is the outdated opinions held by people enforcing the laws.
I don't understand how child support works. Is it just that it's a certain percentage of your paycheck? So if you're unemployed you go to jail? Or is jail only when you outright refuse to pay child support. In that case, do women who refuse to pay child support also not go to jail?
I see, so if for example someone has a job where they are supposed to make a certain amount(their imputed income) but their hours get cut, then that may not be taken into consideration for their monthly amount?
Overall, I think it's a difficult situation to be sure. To my understanding the point of child support is to help the child. If the parents weren't both responsible for the child, the cost of it would fall onto tax payers. Jail for a parent who doesn't pay is to help the cost of the child not fall on other citizens.
how is this any different from shaming women for having abortions if they decide they arent able to take care of a child after they accidentally get pregnant. We get told horrible shit like "dont open your legs if you cant deal with the consequences"... well dont stick your dick where it doesnt belong if you cant deal with the consequences. and this goes both ways, not just men. i know a woman who went to jail over child support also.
i brought abortion into it because the concept is the same, people are dealing with consequences from not being able to afford a child. and idk where you live but i live in the south and shaming women is very prevalent here.
plus my dad never paid a dime of child support and never went to jail...
If you don't understand that when people say "everyone around here" they don't mean literally everyone then I don't know what to tell you. Clearly that isn't what I meant. But of course, you'll take offense to it because you have to be attacked.
[–]InBaggingArea 590 points591 points592 points (91 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (36 children) | Copy Link
Only if they don't live with their family
Only if they do live with their family.
I agree things aren't fair, but at the very least we should try to be accurate when describing the situation. The easiest way to lose an argument is to overstate your case. If you have a good case, then describe the situation accurately and don't embellish to make it seem worse than it actually is.
[–]whyUsayDat 145 points146 points147 points (24 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link
That's undoubtedly true in some situations, but let's not distort the case you're trying to make by claiming it's the most common way that divorces work out. And if we're being accurate we should also keep in mind the rates that men and women choose not to live with their kids/families.
[–]Realworld 28 points29 points30 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Inappropriate_Comma 58 points59 points60 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rumpadunk 29 points30 points31 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Droviin 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Rumpadunk 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]dank-maymay points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Same for my dad.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't claim to know. But I do know that comparing that number for men and women would be a lot more convincing than this terrible meme.
The fact that an argument is difficult to make isn't a good excuse for rallying behind a half-assed, inaccurate, argument instead.
[–]Demonspawn 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HAESisAMyth 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]whyUsayDat 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Sure, some situations are more likely to work out in a bad way for men and they're more likely to work out in other bad ways for women. I think that means we can identify two problems:
[–]originalSpacePirate 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Jpeevo 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NeedHelpWithExcel 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]CajunBindlestiff -7 points-6 points-5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Danni293 21 points22 points23 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jpeevo 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CajunBindlestiff 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jaheiner 19 points20 points21 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AnotherDAM 9 points10 points11 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Of anyone. And I agree that's a huge problem, but I don't think the solution is to start locking up women at the same rates as men. Especially since the high rates are overwhelmingly the result of the 'war on drugs', which is a completely different issue.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_ME_UR_Definitions points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm 100% on board. I think this is a significant problem in our society. But I don't think that blaming women helps at all, if anything it probably distracts from the real problem. Both men and women can be poor and suffer from these same problems.
[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TigPlaze 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DefenestratedCow 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS -12 points-11 points-10 points (31 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kielm 48 points49 points50 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]Googlesnarks 28 points29 points30 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Googlesnarks 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Onithyr 16 points17 points18 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]c0ldsh0w3r 12 points13 points14 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Onithyr 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Diarrhea_Eyes__O-O -5 points-4 points-3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Onithyr 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Diarrhea_Eyes__O-O 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kielm 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kielm 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Elephaux 6 points7 points8 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]iongantas 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Micropratacapus -10 points-9 points-8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KINDLY_PM_ME_UR_TITS 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]notacrackheadofficer -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]chim-chim-giroud points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
So you're acknowledging there are problems with gender based expectations in society but belittling those who are trying to do something about it? Seems counterproductive no? More rights for women=more equal society=men feel less of a need to 'provide'=less bullshit winwinwinwinwin
[–]InBaggingArea 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]nuesuh -8 points-7 points-6 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]nuesuh -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Inairmyballs points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
I think that intent is to help kids not women.
[–]nuesuh -5 points-4 points-3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheRealBaseborn 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]nuesuh -2 points-1 points0 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheRealBaseborn 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]nuesuh -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rasalom72 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]nuesuh 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rasalom72 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]nuesuh 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]ten_feet_higher points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Don't have kids if you can't afford them, fucktard.
[–]duhhhh 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Inairmyballs points [recovered] (46 children) | Copy Link
I don't live in USA so correct me if I'm wrong but judging solely from picture my understanding would be that females that don't have enough money to support kids that are in their care would be given public housing and men that don't pay child support would be sent to jail. Just looking at this photograph it seems to me that someone is trying to misrepresent actual situation. Surely woman that don't pay child support would be sent to jail too and man with kids in their care without enough resources would be given some kind of public housing and not sent to jail?
[–]Socialstudiesman 61 points62 points63 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]akornblatt 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 21 points22 points23 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]pfliegerz points [recovered] (39 children) | Copy Link
Logical fallacy detected.
Just kidding, except not really. A situation where the mother pays child support to the father is unlikely to happen, as in the US, the courts heavily favor the mother in determining custody.
[–]Generic_On_Reddit 45 points46 points47 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[+]NumberOneAsshole points [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link
I have full custody of my 15 year old son. 13 years ago a judge told me he wasn't going to set an amount of support for my ex-wife to pay. He told me to come to an agreement with her that is reasonable. I get a whopping $200/mo. for my son while for my daughter from another woman, I have to pay almost $500 - it was over $1200 when she was in daycare.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]no_more_porno 17 points18 points19 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]no_more_porno 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]no_more_porno 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Generic_On_Reddit 6 points7 points8 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]NumberOneAsshole points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Based on the money we make - I make just a bit more than my daughter's mom. And my son's make makes just a bit less than me. The problem I have is that I am single while both of my ex's have remarried - both to men that are making decent money. So now they both live a much better life as their husbands income is NOT calculated as part of support.
I think it's crap that HOUSEHOLD income isn't used for the calculations - I understand that my daughters step-dad isn't responsible for her, but he is adding a lot of income to the household which allows my ex to drive expensive vehicles while also taking as much as she can from me in child support. So now I struggle to pay my bills while she's doing just fine. I just don't get it.
Also my son's mom defaulted on support for 3 years. The judge did nothing - no back pay was ordered. When she started paying again he pretty much smacked her on the hand and said don't do that again.
[–]mikebong64 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]SCV70656 3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]mikebong64 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]StorkSlayer points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
This needs to be a more common line of thought. Nothing will ever change to be more equitable so long as men continue to have children and get hosed by family courts. Business will just continue as usual.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BeachCruisin22 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]sneakpeekbot 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Phrodo_00 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pickledsoul 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Generic_On_Reddit 12 points13 points14 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]pointofyou points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
Could a father just give the child up for adoption? Wouldn't that alleviate him from paying child support?
[–]SaiHottari 16 points17 points18 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]pointofyou points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
totally fucked up no? That essentially makes his title of parent her property....
[–]SaiHottari 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Inappropriate_Comma 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Inappropriate_Comma 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PowerWisdomCourage 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]roharareddit 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Golin32 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jah_Ith_Ber 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Comms -8 points-7 points-6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]nocivo 18 points19 points20 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 16 points17 points18 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]milleniajc 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]roharareddit 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lawnmover_Man 62 points63 points64 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]YouSmellOfButterfly 56 points57 points58 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lawnmover_Man 24 points25 points26 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thecolbra 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]YouSmellOfButterfly 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mechesh 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]picklesdick 37 points38 points39 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jah_Ith_Ber 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]H_Town_On_That_Boy 2 points3 points4 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]OutbidEuclid 13 points14 points15 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]OutbidEuclid 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RoseEsque 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]H_Town_On_That_Boy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]derpylord143 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]picklesdick 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]H_Town_On_That_Boy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]picklesdick 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dickpaste 12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BiffordT 120 points121 points122 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 31 points32 points33 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[+]TreyWalker points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Hi, I worked for a NJ county sherrif's office for a few years. I've met enough CO's, enough to know that they aren't smart enough to know what the term interchanging is, let alone the pedantry between jail and prison. That said, /u/BiffordT isn't wrong. So please, /u/boss_300, intellectually undress yourself and explain the difference.
[+]xaronax points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I done witnessed a murder.
[–]Mutated_Aim 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BiffordT 72 points73 points74 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]CajunBindlestiff -18 points-17 points-16 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]BiffordT 43 points44 points45 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]WeatherOarKnot 14 points15 points16 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Seel007 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CajunBindlestiff -5 points-4 points-3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Humulus_Lupulus1992 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AKnightAlone 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Jason_Morecheese points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
According to their post history they're also an EMT/ER nurse
[–]gl00pp 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Big_J 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Flatline334 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AppaBearSoup 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DCKHOLING 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AppaBearSoup 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]roharareddit 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]RedEyesBlackSwaggin points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
This image is inaccurate
The prison the guy would be sent to is probably private
[–]daydaypics 9 points10 points11 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-redditardation- 20 points21 points22 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]ManSeekingToucan 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-redditardation- -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mr_Elroy_Jetson 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]zenwarrior01 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KittyNouveau 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]1000ft-Bear points [recovered] (21 children) | Copy Link
What are you talking about. Single parents get support including single dad's. Women who don't pay court enforced child support to to jail too.
You actually are pointing out yes it's grossly unfair for everyone that courts are more likely to appoint the woman as the primary care giver. But don't invent bs that the sanctions are sexist.
[–]Hirudin 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RubyOrchid13 2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+]1000ft-Bear points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
I don't think it's fair? I just said it wasn't as simple as OP was making it out to be and they're missing the bigger picture?
[–]RubyOrchid13 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]1000ft-Bear 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]RubyOrchid13 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]1000ft-Bear 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]RubyOrchid13 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]1000ft-Bear points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah from reading into it, the whole way they only focus on male perpetrators is ridiculous. But my point still stands. I think we have different definitions of what we mean when we say 'written into law' or 'legislated'. From what I can decipher from their vague-as-hell website, The Duluth Programme is a counselling therapy, it's an intervention programme. I'm talking about the laws and statutes that the courts use to determine their decision. The problem at the core of it is the same: that people hold assumptions about old gender roles totally clouding the facts of the case.
[–]RubyOrchid13 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RubyOrchid13 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AppaBearSoup 8 points9 points10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AppaBearSoup 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]1000ft-Bear points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree with you there's a bias but I think the bias is in the attitudes of the people driving the enforcement of the law, not in the system itself. OP is suggesting that the law somehow says "men go to prison, women get a house". That's not the law. The law is that the court-appointed primary caregiver gets support. the non-caregiver parent that defies a court order to make payment goes to prison.
Why can't we have a conversation about why the caregiver parent is so disproportionately denied to fathers in the first place? It's because the lawyers and defendants and the judges and the clerks in the courtroom have this assumption "well the mum is best to raise the kid, the dude just pays money". This idea fucks everyone over.
[–]bignicky222 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fcb98292 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]1000ft-Bear points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Where have you got the idea that I don't believe that fathers and mothers are treated equally. I explicitly said its grossly unfair that the gender split is so different. The reason Fathers are treated so badly by the law is because of this bullshit idea that "mums get to raise the child, dads aren't caregivers they just put the bread on the table". That' s an idea from the 20's that dicks over everyone.
OP is suggesting that the law somehow says "men go to prison, women get a house". That's not the law. The law is that the court-appointed primary caregiver gets support. the non-caregiver parent that defies a court order to make payment goes to prison. OP is totally missing the bigger picture and the real crux of the problem, which is the outdated opinions held by people enforcing the laws.
[–]Hirudin 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]olsmobile 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]EwonRael 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]roharareddit 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]NoisyDogs points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
I don't understand how child support works. Is it just that it's a certain percentage of your paycheck? So if you're unemployed you go to jail? Or is jail only when you outright refuse to pay child support. In that case, do women who refuse to pay child support also not go to jail?
[–]contractor808 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]NoisyDogs points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I see, so if for example someone has a job where they are supposed to make a certain amount(their imputed income) but their hours get cut, then that may not be taken into consideration for their monthly amount?
Overall, I think it's a difficult situation to be sure. To my understanding the point of child support is to help the child. If the parents weren't both responsible for the child, the cost of it would fall onto tax payers. Jail for a parent who doesn't pay is to help the cost of the child not fall on other citizens.
[–]contractor808 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BlackBoxInquiry 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]no-soup-4-You 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]workthroaway15 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 9 points10 points11 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]haberstachery 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]workthroaway15 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]workthroaway15 -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jefeperro 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ElijahLynn 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]haberstachery 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]magnumuser 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rocelot7 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lexieesmith 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MRBLOODY -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LoneWolfRoofRider 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]morejpeg_auto 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]StellisAequus 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]morejpeg_auto 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]StellisAequus 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BeachCruisin22 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]valwow187 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
how is this any different from shaming women for having abortions if they decide they arent able to take care of a child after they accidentally get pregnant. We get told horrible shit like "dont open your legs if you cant deal with the consequences"... well dont stick your dick where it doesnt belong if you cant deal with the consequences. and this goes both ways, not just men. i know a woman who went to jail over child support also.
[–]SwiggityStag 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]daydaypics 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]valwow187 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
i brought abortion into it because the concept is the same, people are dealing with consequences from not being able to afford a child. and idk where you live but i live in the south and shaming women is very prevalent here.
plus my dad never paid a dime of child support and never went to jail...
[–]daydaypics 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]infamous-spaceman -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RubyOrchid13 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]TagTeamChampionWWE points [recovered] (21 children) | Copy Link
The bottom one should say "don't" not "can't"
[–]Trail_of_Jeers 1 point2 points3 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[+]TagTeamChampionWWE points [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link
Everyone is so angry around here that they actually up vote bullshit posts like this. Memes are the worst.
[–]BigToeHamster 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]haberstachery 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BigToeHamster 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]haberstachery 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Trail_of_Jeers 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[+]TagTeamChampionWWE points [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link
Darling?
If you don't understand that when people say "everyone around here" they don't mean literally everyone then I don't know what to tell you. Clearly that isn't what I meant. But of course, you'll take offense to it because you have to be attacked.
[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[+]TagTeamChampionWWE points [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
You are mentally ill.
[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[+]TagTeamChampionWWE points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
No you definitely are
[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]letsgetscammed points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
OP is obviously a troll. No one with a functioning brain would post something that retarded.
[–]contractor808 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]yearisaday -10 points-9 points-8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]contractor808 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rebelliousness -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Trail_of_Jeers -7 points-6 points-5 points (0 children) | Copy Link