~ archived since 2018 ~
Popular
Other
bigeyedbunny
[–]Lethn 252 points253 points254 points 7 years ago* (46 children) | Copy Link
slow clap
I wonder what feminists will have to say about this one? Though I suspect like with Cologne they'll prefer to stay silent on the matter because it completely breaks their narrative.
[–]Krissam 120 points121 points122 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
I wonder what feminists will have to say about this one?
The patriarchy is just pretending to care.
[–]honestlyimeanreally 48 points49 points50 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
this is just one isolated incident that doesn't accurately reflect the reality as a whole.
That's what they would say, probably.
[–]AssAssIn46 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This is more true than it seems, I've seen them say this so many times that I've lost count.
[–]BudDePo 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's a good point, after all this is just one piece of anecdotal evidence. The irony is that they use anecdotal evidence all the time as proof for any point they want to make.
[–]chinawinsworlds 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Very well worded by you, you're so right. It's completely logical of them to "shrug" this away, cause it's a story by one person on the Internet. But it's silly, because almost all feminists do this themselves, personal stories that can't be proven and are not even relevant in the big picture.
[–]unbuttoned 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, but then you aren't respecting their "lived experience".
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok so then here are the official statistics:
The number of rapes are collapsing continuously in the last 25 years:
http://i.imgur.com/IDv7xAR.jpg
[–]AssAssIn46 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do agree that anecdotal evidence holds no merit but what I meant was that when they look at a news report or an article about a woman attacking a man or anything else that goes against what they agree with, they disregard it as just one instance. I know that just one instance of something also doesn't mean that it's common however the problem is that they disregard at as just one instance instead of responding to it properly. Also, like you started, it's very hypocritical considering they use anecdotal evidence all the time.
[–]slayerx1779 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The number of times I've seen them use "feels over reals" and anecdotes should mean that nothing they say has described reality as a whole.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"I don't want to dilute statistics with 'unusual' occurrences"
[–]mindless_gibberish 41 points42 points43 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
yeah, the patriarchy can be real catty like that.
[–]theskepticalidealist 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Patriarchy's been drinking again
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know, you hear it enough times and the name grows on you. I think my firstborn will be called Patriarchy.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sometimes, Feminists will break out the line that "the Patriarchy hurts men, too".
Maybe, in response to this, they will use the line that "the Patriarchy benefits women, too".
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Grasshopper21 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I sincerely believe you'll never rape anyone
[–]Fractoman 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Damn, you found us out!
[–]Alarid 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hurry, get raping and pillaging! I'll grab the horned hats and axes.
[–]thedoze 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To make them look bad
More effort than feminists actually put in.
[–]The_0bserver 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its working guys. Continue to fight the good fight, and keep screaming at them that they aren't doing anything, so that they will actually do something.
[–]vandaalen 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I suspect like with Cologne they'll prefer to stay silent on the matter
What? I live in Cologne and feminists had damned much to say about it. They had more than one demonstation in the shadow of the cathedral going under the motto "Against sexism, against racism".
They had the fucking nerves to try and spin even this incident into something, where they can blame the evil white patriarchy for it.
[–]Akesgeroth 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They only stayed silent for a few days. I'd have to find it again, but IIRC, they wound up saying it was the fault of white men for propagating what was a racist story. Then more evidence came to light and they shut the fuck up. Then someone thought that "It wasn't refugees, it was almost nothing but native germans!" and they again went with the "EVIL RACIST SEXIST WHITE MEN" story. Then someone set the story straight and said that though it wasn't refugees, they were almost all immigrants. Then they shut up again.
[–]notaFireTripper 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"that happened"
[–]CVTHIZZKID 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And then you accuse them of doubting a rape victim, and watch them flip out.
[–]Alkomb 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd bet $500 that at least 10+-ish feminists already reported that post, & account.
[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not feminist, but that's only one case, you can't extrapolate from one case.
[–]omegaphallic -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Dude, don't ruin the this by bringing up Cologne, the reaction by some in the MRM was as embarrassing as the MSM, much of the hype has been discredited.
You just embarrass the MRM by keep bringing it up.
[–]Lethn 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm not actually a part of MRM, I just agree with most of what they are saying and also, fuck off, people can talk about whatever the hell they like, you don't get to dictate anything.
Events like Cologne are very important examples of exactly what we're all fighting against and why political correctness is so dangerous to real victims of sexual violence or rape. People like you who are too sensitive to talk about such issues need to get a grip on reality and realise that just because you don't like what people are talking about doesn't make it automatically wrong.
[–]theskepticalidealist 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What part do you find embarrassing in the way the MRM handled Cologne?
[–]zer0t3ch 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Easy, they'll say "anecdotal evidence, doesn't affect muh statistics".
[+]Lachtan -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Male feminist here, this is one women's experience, I fail to see how conclusion to this is FUCK FEMINISM, GUISE, when shit like this is happening:
"Oklahoma Says Drunk Girls Can’t Get Raped and the Other Worst Rape Laws in the U.S."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/29/oklahoma-says-drunk-girls-can-t-get-raped-and-the-other-worst-rape-laws-in-the-u-s.html
[–]bufedad 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually, the "rape" law was written specifically to exclude women as rapists.
As such it required vaginal or anal penetration.
This was oral so it didn't fall under the "rape" law.
This doesn't mean it wasn't a crime, just that particular law didn't cover the action.
It had nothing to do with her being drunk.
[–]Hypersapien 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's horrible, but it's sounds more like a case of a badly written law, or combination of laws, where the legislators didn't think through all the possible situations.
[–]MimeGod 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's more a case of the prosecutor screwing up. He tried for a couple of charges with strict legal definitions that didn't apply to the case instead of the broader "sexual battery."
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Seriously, I can't believe this is a post so upvoted, it's on /r/all. "Woman destroys the feminist myths on rape" is such clickbait and a ridiculous conclusion to make from one story.
From the title I expected a convincing article or paper with various statistics and reputable sources.
[–]Lachtan -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is MRA after all, clickbait and fake facebook shitposting will do just good.
This is precisely why people think MRA is hate group, in a reckless fight with feminism, they're hurting regular women too.
[+]AidanHU4L -14 points-13 points-12 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That this makes no sense whatsoever? Some black people that are seriously hurt by the police will never be taken seriously, and as a white person I feel like it's important for me to understand that as a white person. But telling someone not to go to the cops because of that? I've never heard of something like that from a feminist or otherwise, show me someone who's said something along these lines or stop burning an effigy
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]AidanHU4L 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What? That isn't nearly as much of a legal thing as the pressure of society to keep quiet, the reason women don't wanna go to the cops isn't about what the cops think if they handle it poorly they can lose their jobs. it's about the fact that it's now on public record and your friends and family may not react in a comforting way, with questions such as these. It may be easier to just avoid telling everyone in your personal life when out of school but what about survivors in college or even high school? Some of those cases become nationally covered and even then if the resounding response is comforting, there will be plenty who have intrusive questions and use the assault to denounce feminism entirely
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AidanHU4L 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Right so if you don't have an argument it's usually better to not comment than to act as if your understanding of what I was saying was the same as everyone else
[–]omyn 218 points219 points220 points 7 years ago (105 children) | Copy Link
Hand me the downvotes;
Yes, this is amazing, this is great. I understand her hate. But! How is this a men's right post? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just an anti-feminist post?
Don't get me wrong, it is a good and interesting post. However, being so far from pro men's rights, and more of just flack against feminists, does this not lower the value of actual men's rights posts made here?
[–]Manburpigx 34 points35 points36 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I was ready to downvote you after that first sentence.
But what you said made way too much sense.
[–]omyn -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like you.
I was looking at the definition of rape culture today as my sister in law out something on FB about it. The definition said that it is a culture where rape is minimised by men, pushed aside, and the victims are blamed rather than the male perpetrators.
This post counters that idea and shows that some women have been influenced by an erroneous idea out about by some feminists, to the point where she believed it and nearly didn't report her rape.
So rather than men being to blame and the patriarchy, some feminists are creating the very culture they supposedly decry.
So I guess that's why it's here. I don't think we should be slamming feminists with the same vitriol we receive, but the author of the original FB post was probably a woman so...
[–]AnotherDAM 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't deserve a down-vote but I posit you might want to reevaluate the original post. You are right that it, in itself, isn't an MRA post but as you read it what is the feeling you got in your gut?
My first thought was, "yup, this is how men behave". The problem MRAs have is that of narrative. By promoting posts like this one we can help change the narrative. So the post isn't MRA but it points the way to a strategy that we can use to have the truth meet a wider audience.
[–]housewifeonfridays 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link
As a feminist who also fights for men's rights, hell yes. I care deeply about how men are treated in our society. I have a husband and I am helping my friends raise sons. I love them and I want them to be treated fairly and with kindness.
I subscribe to this subreddit to learn more about how I can be an advocate for the men and boys that I love. I was shocked and saddened to see that so many posts are anti-woman and especially anti-feminist.
Where should I go to fight for equality? Posts like this one show me that here is not the right place.
[–]Kiwi150 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
Really nice seeing a feminist who supports men's rights around here, there are a few too many people in this sub that have a blanket hatred and opposition for feminists and it really doesn't sit well with me. Elsewhere in this same thread there's someone who thinks there are no good feminists and you're right here proving him wrong!
[–]NouberNou 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
I'm a male and consider myself a feminist. The vast majority of feminists consider men's rights just as equal. It isn't a zero sum game like a lot of posters here think, and those that think it is, probably actually are worthy of being criticized and chastised for their views because if they think situations were women are treated equally is somehow removing rights from them, then that probably means that they inherently consider that they somehow should have more rights than women.
[–]chinawinsworlds 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I believe most feminists care to a degree about men's rights, or at least loosely believe in equality. But I think most feminists are incredibly blinded by misinformation to the point of mild brainwashing. At least that's how I experience it here in Scandinavia.
[–]Demonspawn 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I'm tired of this "MRM isn't anti-feminism" argument, so i'll just hijack here for the repost of Celda's work:
Feminists fight AGAINST men's rights.
Here are some examples to prove my point.
Father's rights group want shared parenting (equal custody) to be the default if both parents want custody and neither parent is unfit. They feel that men should not be punished for being men, and that women should not be awarded custody to their kids simply for being women. Currently women are awarded primary custody almost all the time, even if the husband was the stay-at-home Dad and the woman was the breadwinner.
Feminists fought against this. You can read NOW's own statement here. Also note their usage of anti-male lies, i.e. "fathers are abusive, don't give them custody." That is from 1997, but still remains valid today.
Men want protection against false rape allegations. They feel that a man's life should not be ruined simply on the allegation of a woman who may be a vindictive liar. Currently, a woman can accuse a man of rape for no reason, and the man's name is splashed in the paper and his life is ruined. So, they fought for laws granting men anonymity until charged with the crime of rape—not convicted, just charged.
Feminists fought against this, causing it to fail. Also see here, the London Feminist Network campaigning to defeat the proposal.
"The London Feminist Network is a campaigning organisation uniting London based feminist groups and individuals in activism."
Men want an end to the justice system favouring women simply because they are women, and giving men harsher sentences simply because they are men.
Feminists fought against this, arguing that no woman should be sent to jail, even women who had murdered multiple people.
Men want equal treatment when victims of domestic violence, and to not be arrested for the crime of "being male" under primary aggressor policies.
Feminists fought against this by trying to suppress evidence showing that half of domestic violence is done by women, by threatening the researchers with bomb threats, death threats, etc. Modern, younger feminists are doing it as well.
And sadly, they were successful in this effort of propaganda. For decades, and continuing today, violent men are (rightfully) convicted and punished by the state, while violent women are left to freely terrorize and harm their partners.
The feminist definition of domestic violence has skewed arrest and prosecution philosophies, resulting primarily in having only male batterers criminally pursued.
Men want female rapists to be arrested, charged, and convicted with rape. In Western countries, women are rarely punished when raping men, due to the biased legal system. In some countries, women cannot be punished when raping men, since rape is defined as a male-perpetrated crime.
Feminists fought against this in India, arguing that "there is a physicality [in] rape" and that it would make things "more complicated for judges."
Feminists fought against this in Israel, claiming that changing the law would result in men filing false rape claims.
Men want society to stop thinking only men commit rape or only women can be raped.
Feminists rolled out the dont be that guy posters, which portray all rapists as men.
Or here is noted feminist Mary Koss (author of the famous 1 in 4 study):
Clinical psychologist Mary P. Koss of the University of Arizona in Tucson, who is a leading scholar on the issue, puts it rather bluntly: "It's the man's penis that is doing the raping, and ultimately he's responsible for where he puts it."
Men don't want to be thrown in jail because they lost their jobs and temporarily cannot pay child support.
Feminists fought against this, trying to lower the amount to $5000 before a man is guilty of a felony for not paying child support. If a man loses a decent-paying job, he will now be a felon, go to jail, lose his right to vote, AND be unable to find future jobs—if he cannot regain an equal-paying job within a few months.
Men want equal economic support and help from the government. When the recession hit, male-dominated fields like construction lost millions of jobs, while female-fields like education and healthcare gained jobs. So the government proposed an economic stimulus for those fields.
Feminists successfully fought against this, arguing that it was discrimination to support men, and caused the government to give money to women who didn't deserve it. Hundreds of professional feminists complained against the "sexism" of helping men (who had lost jobs) and not women (who had gained jobs).
Men want the issue of suicide (predominantly male) and educational failure (predominantly male) addressed. Feminists protested several recent events at Canadian universities using such methods as physically blocking entrances and pulling fire alarms. The justification was that the organizing group was a hate group, and the speaker (Warren Farrell) was a rape apologist. The full 2+hour talk was posted online - there was nothing like that discussed. Subsequent events did not even feature Warren Farrell in any way, yet were still met with protests, illegally pulling fire alarms, etc.
As you can see, the claim that feminism fight for men's rights is a blatant lie. Don't believe any feminists that say that. Feminists fight for women's rights. That is a good thing. Feminists also are happy to harm men's rights, as shown above. That is a bad thing. Feminism is about female privilege, not equality.
Some may argue that these cases of feminists harming men is not "representative" of feminism. I ask you: Are there any cases of feminists helping men? No. Yet, there are many cases of feminists harming men.
It is reasonable to conclude from these two facts that feminism fights to harm men.
[–]Shanguerrilla 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Great post, thank you for taking the time to write it.
If I can trouble you, can you tell me the name of the report that is pasted into the first picture towards the end? I've been looking for the 'women are the aggressors 70% of the time' research.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I didn't write it, Celda did and I'm reposting it.
I've been looking for the 'women are the aggressors 70% of the time' research.
If it's the one I think it is: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
[–]Shanguerrilla 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
thanks man! I appreciate that and your additions to the sub, I know they can get downvoted, but I feel like those are really important content and context that is easily overlooked.
[–]-Themis- -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Regarding the law for equal parenting... requiring "clear and convincing evidence" of anything is quite a high threshold in a civil case. I'm not sure I would be OK with requiring that before moving from joint custody.
Also as a side note, when men fight for custody, they usually get it.
Also the Israeli law seems problematic, not because it addresses rape by women, but because according to the linked article it defines rape by a woman as "causes or makes it possible for a person to insert his (or her) bodily organ or an object into her sexual organ will be charged with rape, forbidden intercourse by consent, sodomy or sex offenses within the family, depending on the circumstances of the act."
"Makes it possible to" is kind of horrifying isn't it? If you make it possible for someone to insert something into your body you are a rapist? That seems cracked at a very fundamental level.
Warren Ferrell is a rape apologist. Source.
The others of your links didn't work.
[–]Kiwi150 -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Holy shit you gilded yourself..
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nope. I don't give money to Reddit.
[–]Kiwi150 -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Apparently you do..
Ok, you are a troll. Go away.
[–]Kiwi150 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Unsupported claim.
If anyone is a troll here, it's gotta be you.
Edit:
Jesus christ dude You brought the argument, it's up to you to support it. Evidence of "good feminists" is currently sitting at 0. Evidence of bad feminists... well look up to the OP. Here's a recent example. Unsupported claim. Where are her actual actions?
Jesus christ dude
You brought the argument, it's up to you to support it. Evidence of "good feminists" is currently sitting at 0. Evidence of bad feminists... well look up to the OP.
Here's a recent example.
Unsupported claim. Where are her actual actions?
Cmon, you can't deny that was funny.
[–]Kiwi150 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yep, we're completely on the same page. I'd call myself a feminist and mra, but I'd much rather go by the term equal rights advocate honestly. Less confusing that way.
I'm just befuddled at some of the people in this sub sometimes. I've seen multiple instances of people talking about how male feminists are apparently 10x worse than female feminists and that they are traitors and scum.
Too many seem to think that the MRM is trying to achieve apparently inequal rights with the scales tipping in favor of men.
[–]NouberNou 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You have to remember what is true about any internet community, and that is the loudest voices are often the ones that never leave. There are mra and feminists who are people who simply do not go into the real world, and the real world to them is one they've constructed through bias reinforcing discussions and communities.
[–]Kiwi150 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Very good point, so some of these toxic feminists and MRAs we see online don't get real world exposure, so the vocal/toxic MRAs see so much of the vocal/toxic feminists and vice versa that we get people on either side saying things like "there are no good feminists/MRAs".
[–]NouberNou 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yea, and to be honest, while Tumblr gets a lot of shit, discussions and posts on Tumblr are very much like pissing into the wind, the format is a lot less conducive to reinforcing biases. The problem is, and this is why posts like these and the more toxic posts that are screenshoting Tumblr are so annoying, is because Reddit is much more conducive to widespread discussion and exposure, and the only reason a lot of the crazy posts on Tumblr are ever seen by anyone are because of subreddits like mra and tia/kia. These are posts by people that would never have a voice otherwise (because Tumblr is a less effective medium for exposure), and for good reason (because they are fringe nuts) but the fringe nuts on Reddit actively search out these posts and bring them to attention, because it helps reinforce their biases and worldview, and then it just becomes a vicious cycle.
[–]realityinhd 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The problem is sometimes actually in the details. Even though you say your fighting for both sides, linguistically your showing how even you aren't underatanding the root problem with MRM and Feminism. Your looking for a word to call yourself (since your rooting for both sides), but you already know the word. It's either one. Feminism = MRM. At the root of each is for the sexes to be treated fairly and equally. So that means they both mean the same thing. For a women to be treated equally to a man is the same concept as for a man to be treated equally to a women.
Now, the actual "image" problem with both movements is that even though those are the definitions, it's not what is actually fought for. Each side basically fights for an edge and the best tool is by highlighting the anecdotal evidence of the other side "winning" or taking advantage.
It all stems from the fact that MOST people are selfish and are actually in the movement for their own gain. MOST people in the movement have the victim hood mentality that nothing is their fault and bad things keep happening them bc XXX person/sex/race/nationality is evil or an asshole.
Feminism becomes a symbol for unequal protections and right for women and MRM becomes a symbol for male pigs that want to put down women.
It's an unfortunate vicious circle that isn't easy to break. Even if the people at the top are fair and want equal rights, the only way they can progress the movement is appealing to the masses. The masses only care about themselves and want to perpetrate their victim hood. So a spin is put on the struggle to appeal to them. Then that same spin that was put on the struggle is exactly the spin that the other side portrays as unfair and unequal (rightfully so. But then does the same thing to appeal to their masses).
Ultimately, victim hood and lack of personal responsibility is to blame. If more people would have an inner locus of control, there would be alot more success in the world and alot less garbage tumblers and movements.
Unfortunately it's something that is deeply seeded in our society and is only being made stronger.
[–]EvilPundit 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's feminists who play the zero-sum game. They oppose shared parenting after divorce, among other things..
[–]KittyWithASnapback 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Okay so feminists and men's rights activists both have people who think it's a zero sum game. It's not a zero sum game. Come on man.
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
This comment has been overwritten by an open source script to protect this user's privacy. It was created to help protect users from doxing, stalking, harassment, and profiling for the purposes of censorship.
If you would also like to protect yourself, add the Chrome extension TamperMonkey, or the Firefox extension GreaseMonkey and add this open source script.
Then simply click on your username on Reddit, go to the comments tab, scroll down as far as possible (hint:use RES), and hit the new OVERWRITE button at the top.
[–]Kiwi150 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
There are many "definitions" of feminism, and if you stubbornly point at one definition and say "this is feminism and everything else is not", there's no arguing with you otherwise.
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Alright, prime example of blanket hatred.
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]marauderp 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I love watching people like yourself defend their sacred cows. It's so obvious as an outside observer ... you're so trapped by your belief that you can't even consider the possibility that maybe the stupid shit you care so much about is really just stupid shit that you should let go of.
Small hint: calling yourself a feminist doesn't make you a decent human being.
[–]SilencingNarrative 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
So you consider yourself a rarity among feminists, or common, in that you fight for men's rights?
[–]housewifeonfridays 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Pretty common. Most feminists i know are for equality for both genders. We are mothers. We care about our children. Our children are both male and female. We work for respect for all people.
[–]SilencingNarrative 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Have you been following contraversy over the dear colleague letter from the office of civil rights?
Do have any opinion on it?
[–]housewifeonfridays 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No. Can you send me a link/tldr?
[–]SilencingNarrative 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The Dear Colleague Letter was sent in 2011 by the office of civil rights to the heads of universities, advising them on how to handle sexual conduct grievances.
Here is a brief description of it.
In the MRM, the dear colleague letter is regarded as one of the more blatant attempts to demonize men and to weaken their civil rights, and it is brought up all the time as current events unfold regarding collage campuses and the regulation of sexual conduct (the uva rolling stone story, emma sulkowitz at columbia, the jian giomeschi trial, and the growing number of lawsuits by male students claiming that universities are denying them due process and subjecting them to kangaroo courts).
I don't think very many feminists are aware of these issues, or if they are, its more along the lines of believing that 1 in 5 collage women are sexually assaulted and the anyone complaining about the denial of due process is anti-woman and anti-feminist.
[–]housewifeonfridays -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
My late nigh t sleep deprived response. I think sexual assault on campus happens and I think universities still have a lot of work to do to make reporting easy and normal. I also think there is work to do to inform people of what is considered rape. I think that education needs to be extended to include men. Many men are assaulted sexually by other men and by women. And they don't know what to do when that happens.
I will look into this more. It is a complex issue with many victims. And universities who are just trying to cover their asses.
[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think you have a very serious interest in the rights of men or women, or an astonishing claim like 1 in 5 female collage students will be sexually assaulted by the time they graduate would be something you had a strong opinion on. That's fine, btw, I think most people don't have a strong interest in either. They view claims like that as the background noise of a comples power struggle and they try to ignore it as they have lives to get on with.
Continuing with the idea that you do have a serious interest however,
Is the uva rolling Stone story something you don't already have a strong opinion on?
You would have to go read up on it before you could say much of substance?
As far as complexity goes, there are a lot of things to know, moving parts as it were. But if you have any serious interest in the rights of men, if you think there are any threats to them worth worrying about, then the erosion of the due process of men accused of sexual assault and rape would be something you had a lot to say about.I wouldn't be able to get you to stop talking about the uva story and it's implications.
I think when you say that you fight for the rights of men, you are asserting that there are no serious problems men face, but if some were to develop, you would oppose those threats.
Saying the issue of sexual assault on campus is a complex issue with many victims and that collages are just trying to cover their asses could mean almost anything. It is consistent with believing 1 in 5 or 1 in 50, with believing Jackie and the reporter, with believing Jackie and not the reporter, or with thinking both were obvious liars and that we all should have known that from the beginning.
[–]Celda 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I was shocked and saddened to see that so many posts are anti-woman
What anti-woman posts?
especially anti-feminist.
What is wrong with opposing feminism?
There is plenty of valid reason to oppose feminism as a movement.
[–]stop_stalking_me 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you have any examples? I keep seeing people say this but the rare occasions I've come across a post like that it's been downvoted into oblivion.
[–]gmcalabr 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed. That, plus although this is possibly even the majority of cases, nightmare stories told by feminists still happen. The fault is in telling the story that no one takes rape seriously.
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You're right, it's not so much about MRM.
And it's very true that men do get treated discriminatory and unfavorably in the justice system, leading often to these heartbreaking situations:
http://i.imgur.com/xjJKnF0.jpg
[–]AssAssIn46 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't know how to react to that. Anger? Sadness? Disdain? It's all too confusing.
[–]infinitemile 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I feel you. Flabbergasted is my bet
[–]omyn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I read about that some time. Just insane.
[–]atred 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Please don't start your post with comments about downvotes. It's a shitty thing to do, yes, even if you are upvoted to the top.
Back to the subject: it seems that many posts on this forum are about fake accusation of rape, "rape culture" and in general blanket accusations thrown around about men (think "all men are rapists till proven otherwise") and thus this post would fit in the theme as a counter-point and also as an example of actual disservice to women of that kind of narrative: if you blame men for everything and make women trust men less, especially the ones in position to help you (policemen or first responders for example) then you potentially harm victims who will be less inclined to trust those men.
Trusting men less because of feminist narrative is something that probably fits here. You can't really start to talk about your rights when people don't even trust you.
[–]omyn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for the reddiquet tip!
I understand and agree with your view. I may have been clouded by the outrage she expressed.
I still feel that the post would have had more of a possitive effect, and fit here better, had it focused more on the possitive surprise she had with mens' reactions, rather than the betrayal of set norms.
Even so! It shows an incredibly realistic and good example of how sick the effects of this disturbing expectation prejudice is.
[–]atred 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
On the other hand you'd be totally right if you posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4gz4j0/why_women_need_the_next_wave_of_feminism/
That has nothing to do with Men's Rights.
[–]Endless_Summer 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You do know that feminists violently riot and protest men's rights assemblies, right?
And that they actively fight against things like more reproductive rights for men, right?
Men's rights is objectively anti-feminism. You are wrong.
And there are feminists who join men's rights assemblies, and there are feminists who fight for reproductive rights for men. It's almost like gasp there are different people out there
[–]MeiFriend 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At least I believe feminism is fundamentally against equality, because it states men are still above while we aren't and it raises a lot of backlash to any male willing to defend his rights.
[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So tell me, how are men's right activists depicted in feminist leaning media publications?
There is one specific politically identifiable group that opposes men's right activism, from no-platforming to harassing people that want to go to the events, to disrupting the events themselves.
Which political group is that?
One hint: it is an F word.
[–]Blutarg -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link
The main obstacle to men's rights is feminism.
[–]AloysiusC 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm afraid it isn't. It seems that way because of feminist's behavior. But the biggest obstacle is male disposability - of which feminism is a symptom, not a cause.
[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oh yes, male disposability keeps interrupting speeches, teaching classes, lobbying the government. Not feminism, oh no.
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You don't understand. Feminists behaving that way isn't the cause for men's issues. It's a symptom of them. Besides, when they behave like that it helps us and hurts them more than anything else.
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But the biggest obstacle is male disposability
Unfortunately, male disposability, much like female hypergamy, isn't a solvable problem; it's a biological condition.
You can't "solve" male disposability. You have to build a society that works in light of it. Our current society is attempting to ignore the existence of both issue above and crumbling due to the side-effects of ignoring reality.
[–]AloysiusC -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Correct. That's why, at least for now, the best we can achieve is to spread awareness so people at least understand why things are happening. If they want to be sexists they'll at least have to be conscious of it and admit that it's men who get the raw deal, not women.
I think that is achievable and we can take it from there. Also, don't underestimate people's sense of justice. Once humanity is aware of the problem, we might be surprised at how much people start to care and try to fix it. We're not as doomed to our biology as one might think.
[–]Kiwi150 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link
Not necessarily.
There's good feminism and there's bad feminism. The extremist feminism (the femi-nazis) are the bad feminists. Feminism is supposed to work hand-in-hand with men's rights. Both the men's rights movement and feminism are supposed to work towards equality and if they're both done right, they won't work against each other.
The femi-nazi type feminist is the main obstacle to men's rights. Not feminism.
I've seen and know that good feminists exist, and we should support them.. also keep in mind they don't like the femi-nazis either.
[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
There is no good feminism. The moderates just act as cover for the extremists. They were pretty crazy in the past, and they are pretty crazy now. If you consider the systematic destruction of all male spaces, the abolitionist movements, white feather campaigns, inequal custody laws/reproductive rights, circumcision etc. Single gendered movements are always fatally flawed by the inherent bias, and yes I mean even this one could go sour too.
[–]Kiwi150 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I'm of the personal opinion that there needs to be a unified movement for equal rights, a movement consisting of men's and women's rights, consisting of men and women. I don't think the MRM or feminism is the right way of going about it at all.
However, I happen to know for a fact that there are people that feel the same in both movements. There ARE good feminists, and there ARE good MRAs, and you happen to be one of the bad MRAs simply because of this view:
There is no good feminism. The moderates just act as cover for the extremists.
There are feminists that want true equality, I've seen them, met them, had discussions with them. They exist. Denying this is simply toxic to the MRM, feminism, and the equal rights movement in general.
Having blanket generalized hatred for feminists does NOT help the movement for equal rights, AT ALL. It works against it, because it is a view of "us vs them", and that kind of animosity is the antithesis of equality.
The ideal "good feminist" and "good MRA" is basically a person that would support the unified equal rights movement, a person that wants equality and realizes that approaching it on one side or the other is ineffective and counterproductive.
This is the main issue I have with the MRM, that so many MRAs have this hatred towards feminists, and sometimes women. That isn't equality, equality is working together toward a unified goal.
I will admit, though, that my definition of "good feminist" may not be a "real feminist" in some people's eyes, but whatever, that's just semantics and you should know what I mean by now.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Having blanket generalized hatred for feminists does NOT help the movement for equal rights, AT ALL.
And what about equal responsibilities?
1) Please enumerate any government-granted rights which men have and women do not have in equal or greater levels.
2) Please enumerate any government-enforced responsibilities which women bear which men do not bear in equal or greater levels.
Now reverse those questions.
Now realize that the major force preventing resolving the converse of those questions is Feminism.
No, the MRM will not "play nice" with feminism because feminism IS the enemy of men's rights and women's responsibilities.
[–]Kiwi150 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
I understand your reasoning, but it fails in that you do not recognize there are feminists out there that are also MRAs and MRAs that are also feminist. You're talking to one of them. I'm not sure if you're trying to tie feminism as a whole down to some sort of strict specific definition or not, but if you are, the truth of the matter is that it can't be tied down to a strict specific definition, and the same goes for the MRM.
the MRM will not "play nice" with feminism
I think you need to correct yourself by saying "I (or my idea of the MRM) will not 'play nice' with feminism", because you certainly aren't speaking for all of the MRM when you take such blatantly oppositional stances like that. There are MRAs that do want to "play nice" with feminism, but keep in mind when I say feminism in this particular instance, I mean the feminists that are actually out for equality.
To expand on the inability to tie either movement down to a strict specific definition, I personally don't think there are two types of feminists and MRAs: the toxic, oppositional ones that are seeking inequality in favor of their gender, and the ones that are out for real equality that are willing to work with each other. People's definitions of feminism and the MRM vary wildly, and you just can't tie either one to a strict specific definition.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
but it fails in that you do not recognize there are feminists out there that are also MRAs and MRAs that are also feminist.
There are those who claim to be, but you cannot be both a feminist and an MRA. They are opposition movements. Period.
I personally don't think there are two types of feminists
You have to realize that there's only two types of feminists:
The radicals who want to harm men.
The others that claim "not all feminists" when someone points to the radicals but does nothing to discredit the radicals.
The ones who actually challenged the radicals and got shot down so hard by groups 1 and 2 that they no longer call themselves feminists (CHS is one exception to this group).
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Just remember your views are far from representative of the entirety of the MRM.
Personally, I think your stance is a weak one that won't ever lead to equality or something similar. I think your stance is rife with animosity and resentment, and those are not conducive to the goals of the MRM. I believe we can only achieve any sort of lasting equality or something similar by working alongside feminists, and perhaps by being feminists ourselves.
Feminism and the MRM do not have to be oppositional movements. Honestly, there should ideally only be ONE movement consisting of both sides working in harmony.
But, we disagree. I'll leave it at that for now.
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It's representative of those who are actual MRM members, rather than those who are attempting to subvert the movement by being feminist apologists.
[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You need to address with yourself why you believe you have to hate someone if you think they're wrong.
[–]megalady 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Comment in this thread: "Being a feminist you are contributing to the collapse of our society. You truly disgust everyone here"
Synonyms for hatred: intense dislike, disgust
[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Strong idealogues are dangerous, yes. I am probably one of them too. But in saying that so are idealists like you. Suppressing conflict just entrenches the status quo, and it is one of the reasons why in story the 'good guys' have been represented both as forces of order and chaos.
I know that the opinions of feminism have been hardening over here over the past few years. I also know that I am a part of that because I have written similar opinions several times. And yes there are negative consequences to some of our number holding these 'hard-line' beliefs.
As a fellow Kiwi you should understand that much of the roots of the Auckland housing crisis come through the two income trap. We live in a society that has some of the longest working hours in the world, working people trapped in poverty and gaping wounds of inequality. When I attribute much of the low-medium level stressors to the actions of feminists in the past I cannot help but loathe them.
When you're holding a baby that is traumatised and catatonic due to the stresses of seeing his mother go absolutely ballistic against his father maybe you too would feel some anger towards a movement that minimises the chances for a positive resolution to that conflict because the perpetrator is a woman.
See I dislike the current societal structure because it isn't good for anyone. It builds fear and distrust. It prevents women from finding good men because it steals away their pride and confidence. It kills respect between the genders. It makes people fat; it makes them narcissistic; it makes them disengage from the world. Feminists played an extremely large role in creating this world, and so I really have no love lost for them for it.
[–]Spacyy 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Based mom calls herself a femisnist.
Don't you dare shit talk based mom.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
There is no good feminism.
It's stupid statements like these that make men's rights spaces unpalatable to the "good feminists" out there. Way to go, painting all of them with the broad brush dipped into the tin of the darkest black you could find. Does it then surprise you that even the more moderate feminists [*] just glance at a place like this, see tripe like yours and promptly dismiss the whole idea of a legitimate men's rights movement existing? If you hate them so much, then why do you do the exact same thing they do (judging our entire movement by posts like yours)?
[*] Do you just lump them all together as infinitely bad, hence equal, or do you admit that some are worse than others, and some are better?
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's stupid statements like these that make men's rights spaces unpalatable to the "good feminists" out there.
There are no "good feminists".
As for those claiming to be "good feminists" who believe they are exceptions to #3, I have but two questions for you:
[–]SIGRemedy -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Limiting the "proof" of Feminism to only government-granted or government-enforced rights and responsibilities actually does just as much harm to MRM as it does to Feminism.
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Limiting the "proof" of Feminism to only government-granted or government-enforced rights and responsibilities
Well, if women are "equal" then why do they need to petition the government to address grievances when they make up 52% of the adult population?
does just as much harm to MRM as it does to Feminism
The MRM is about legal rights and responsibilities. It is not a social justice movement.
[–]SIGRemedy -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
...because there are active laws on the books that are slanted against women, primarily in areas such as reproductive rights and wages. These laws are run at the state level primarily, and so it makes sense to petition the federal-level government to establish laws. This would require a "showdown" between state and federal law in the Supreme Court, which is where the primary battleground for long-lasting law has been happening for quite some time now.
This argument does not argue that there are no laws slanted against men, it merely addresses your question as to why there is a legal component to mainstream feminism. The initial Civil Rights movement succeeded, and now the efforts are to put out "brush fires" of states trying to enact laws counter to federal law.
The government-centric argument, which might initially seem to favor a MRA-based view, actually excludes a lot of the common MRM talking points.
So, yes; limiting the "proof" of Feminism to only government-granted or government-enforced rights and responsibilities actually does just as much harm to MRM as it does to Feminism. Neither group is any longer a strict Civil Rights group - we've passed that (and MRM never could be, the "default rights" in this country were men, all of the original documents say "man" or "men" instead of "person" or "persons"). At full scope, both are now Social Justice groups first and Civil Rights (legal) groups second.
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...because there are active laws on the books that are slanted against women, primarily in areas such as reproductive rights and wages.
HAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHH
You really want to compare men's reproductive rights with women's? MEN HAVE NO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. How the ever living fuck can that be slanted against women?
Wages? Wage gap was debunked 10 years ago. Quit with that bullshit argument.
So far you have zero answers for either question.
It's not even worth reading the rest of your bullshit because it's plainly obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
*I think that feminism as a concept is terribly hateful. When I hear gendercide talked about openly it makes my skin crawl. See I actually heard it with my own ears, and I saw how they operate when they believe they are amongst friends. I was a member of the NZ Green party and I got to observe how the inner circle thought first hand. I don't think they are hateful because I heard about things, I think it because I saw things.
[–]Vandechoz 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
there is no good feminism
at best, there are good people who call themselves feminists because they either don't know better or they want to reclaim the term, but they are not welcome in any actual feminist-run spaces
Why do you think there is no good feminism?
[–]Vandechoz 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
because every time I think I've found "good feminism" and I dig a little deeper, there's a core belief in a resistance to a nebulous "Patriarchy" that is used to vilify men in general
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Interesting.. well, I hope you come across some good feminists some day .
[–]Vandechoz 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh I know some good people that call themselves feminist, but they are called anti-feminist by those who actually run feminist groups.
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
How is this a men's right post? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just an anti-feminist post?
MRM is anti-feminism. Quit being a concern troll.
[–]SIGRemedy -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
It wasn't, when it first drew my attention and my support. I still struggle to see myself as an MRM ally when MRM by its definition is an opposition group, even though the inequality in certain situations and unfair requirements placed on men are absolutely issues we should address in our culture. I just don't see that "tearing down the other side" helps us build up men in any way. A healthy society requires both sides to be strong and in support of one another. If we take the opposite path, such as both sides trying to tear one another down, then we're going to end up with whoever's left higher up the pit we've been digging.
In other words, if we try to win by attacking the other half of our society, we're going to find ourselves in a hell of a hole. (Ninja edit: That's also true for feminists. Anti-MRM and Anti-Feminism are equal parts toxic. You CAN be both an MRM supporter and a Feminist, by the by.)
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You CAN be both an MRM supporter and a Feminist, by the by.
So you support NOW campaigning against shared parenting?
No, you can't be an MRM and a Feminist because feminism is against men's rights. Feminism is not an equality movement: never has been, never will be. In it's more pure form, it's about granting women equal rights for men, yet rejecting female responsibilities. It is a female supremacy movement. Period.
[–]grad14uc 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I think a lot gets lost in what some people mean by 'feminist'. I don't think a lot of people here who say they support feminism mean necessarily this new, modernized, western ideology. Just simply that they support equal rights for women, which is good since it helps to dispel the notion that MRA's are simply misogynistic fucks.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Just simply that they support equal rights for women
If they claim to be for equal rights for women then they just need to say "Mission Accomplished" and quit the movement.
[–]grad14uc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oh I agree, but for me, it's just a way to ensure people know you're not being sexist and you advocate for equal rights in less developed countries. In no way do I support whatever bs they come up with in the west (pay gap, rape epidemic etc.).
It's like politics, I'll call myself a supporter for a couple of them, but I in no way agree with everything they stand for.
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
you advocate for equal rights in less developed countries.
You shouldn't. You should advocate for equal rights and responsibilities.
Equal rights alone (while women have lesser responsibilities) is a female supremacy movement.
[–]SIGRemedy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Only as much as I support fringe MRA groups painting all feminists as toxic trolls trying to destabilize the country and establish Orwellian control. There are differences between "Pro-X" and "Anti-X" movements. Movements that are in support of the advancement and uplifting of a group (the "pro-X" groups) tend to be more successful over the long term. They tend to be able to establish themselves, gather support, effect long-term change on a wider level. The groups that try to put down other groups (the "anti-X" groups) do not tend to have those successes. For an example, look at MLK's efforts versus the militant groups of the time. One effected change, the other is a footnote.
Two things. First, you say feminism is against men's rights. That's interesting, as there are feminism groups that support men's rights groups both financially and politically - often on local levels. These groups can be allies, and in so doing strengthen both groups with better community outreach capability. Are these groups the "fringe, not true feminist" groups?
"In it's more pure form..."
The crux of this statement is that "no true feminist supports MRM", and the counter to that (and what I'm understanding from your statement about the ability of MRM and Feminism to work together) is that "no true MRM supports feminists".
When you set your criteria for a Feminist as "someone who hates men's rights" and the criteria for an MRM as "someone who hates feminism", how do you classify those individuals who identify with either group but do not exhibit the hatred of the other group, and do not actively work against that group? How do you classify a feminist who supports men's rights, or an advocate for men's rights who also supports feminism? Are they "not true MRA/feminist"? And the follow-up is very important to that; Who does get to decide who a feminist or an MRA is?
The problem is, if we only define a "true MRA/feminist" as someone who is against the other side, then the actual lines we're enforcing are lines of battle. It has to be a zero sum game. You say that feminism is a female supremacy movement, but if you must be anti-feminist to be pro-MRA, then you must actively fight against the supremacy of women by, ostensibly, reducing the supremacy of women. Or, in other words, by reinforcing the supremacy of men.
In a zero sum game, both sides lose.
as there are feminism groups that support men's rights groups both financially and politically - often on local levels.
And yet nobody is able to ever point to one of them. They just "magically exist" for sake of argument but we can't find any records of their existence.
Are these groups the "fringe, not true feminist" groups?
If, for the sake of argument, I concede that they even exist:
Are they feminist? That depends. Is the majority of the feminist movement against them? At that point, could they validly call themselves feminists?
The crux of this statement is that "no true feminist supports MRM"
No, the crux of that statement is understanding the history of the feminist movement and the accomplishment of it's various waves:
First wave: Get men's rights, but reject men's responsibilities.
Second wave: Reduce women's responsibilities to society.
Third wave: Use government to increase men's responsibilities towards women.
The MRM exists because of feminists and the harm feminists have done to men.
It has to be a zero sum game.
It is a zero sum game. There's only so much money to throw at concerns. Every dollar which goes to abused men shelters is a dollar out of taxes which can't be used for women's shelters which is why feminists fight against it so hard.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminism is against men's rights. It's very easy to come up with examples, such as NOW campaigning against shared parenting or Israeli Feminists campaigning against rape laws covering men.
To say that you can be an MRM without being an anti-feminist is a provably wrong mentality.
[–]LadyAkinara 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I get where you're comig from, but I think some of it's validity is because her post shows that she wasn't treated how feminists say we would be, and it show how the men who were on her case/in her life not only cared, but went above and beyond for her. That's what puts it here.
These prejudices against men, instilled by feminist rumours and conservative male views, are one of many things making it difficult for men to have certain rights at the same level with women. I whole heartedly agree with you there.
[–]Inthependant 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This op is valid critical of how feminist say things that are bad of men.
We have main character a woman who has been reaped. In beginning of story, she tells us how she has these beliefs of men. They are redneck, they have not taken seriously.
Then, it is a surprise, she has been taken seriously! She had previous bad views of men. These bad views are wrong as proved by her experience. She says bad views come from feminists.
This is good post, because it shows the good men do. Husband says go to report. Redneck men taken seriously.
She says two bad guys here. Rapist and feminism. She is going to get the rapist with policemen help. She can't get the feminism, so she says fuck you.
Now you say it is flack against feminists. Flack means dismissive, yes? If yes, it is not flack. It is valid critical. Now you do not like valid critical, so you say to make it go away. Answer please, why is feminism good in this story? I do not see it good. I see it has hurt men in the stereotypes and hurt the woman in the fear.
I now get down votes yes? Because brigade get.
[–]omyn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You make a clear and well pointed case.
Flack would in this case mean gunfire against feminism. Which, ofcourse it is, and rightfully so. It's a terrible thing that we, even my self, have a prejudice towards other men on how they would react to things...
I my self wouldn't expect anyone to dissmiss rape like she expected, but that's beside the point. I do understand by comparing it to the reaction I expect about female domestic violence.
I do see how the male expectation side of the story can be seen as a mens right promoter. However I have to say that this post is not giving it much light, it is highly focused on the "fuck feminism" side.
[–]marty2k 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because many tenants of feminism, especially the rape culture hysteria, are specifically used to give fodder to anti man propaganda. It is the basis for almost every negative message aimed at men these days. That women shouldn't feel safe around men, that false rape accusations are myths, that rape is a female only problem, that men have set up systems to protect rapists and won't help you of you're raped.
Here's the truth: Current feminism is hurting men, badly. Not by giving benefits and help to women, but by constructing anti-male narratives to do so. If we are truly to make the world a place where men are seen as equal to women and not more evil or disposable, we must end the downward spiral that the current trend of sensationalist, ham fisted, and damaging messages that feminism has created. We have to spread these stories and show that men aren't generally out to get women, and show that no, the fear is generally unfounded.
[–]JupeJupeSound -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Archibald_Andino 115 points116 points117 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for posting this. Feminists have this folklore that if a female reports a sexual assault, the police, officials, etc will sit back and say, "It's your fault. You were wearing a sexy outfit. Besides, you were probably asking for it. No one is going to believe you, especially us".
When in reality, the exact opposite is true. Sexual assault victims are treated much, much more tenderly and with much more care than victims of other crimes. Authorities bend over backwards to accommodate them, yet the feminist folklore lie continues decade after decade.
[–]srtor 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The point of this post. And I will repeat the tl;dr: FUCK YOU FEMINISTS.
[–]JupeJupeSound 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
In australia i wasnt treated so great.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is one of those situations where you can't make blanket statements. Some places are awful about this stuff and some places are great. I'm sorry you had an awful experience, nobody should have to go through that.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I understand that the majority of cops would be great. The constable i had was great, but he was very new and asked his sargent for help. He was the horrid one. I just wanted people to know that it can still happen to victims. And thank you
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to make the majority of cops are good argument. Fuck that sergeant. Disgrace.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I spent a long time upset over it but i have a beautiful family now so meh. Im happy :)
[+]MyPaynis -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Shouldn't have reported it to uncaring kangaroos and told the police instead. Even upside down cops take reports of rape seriously.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Werribee....
[–]unbelievablepeople 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
than victims of other crimes.
This is an important thing people should know. Victims of other crimes are routinely blamed in the course of an investigation. I witnessed a good buddy of mine get assaulted. This was obviously a straight-up assault and not a fight; my friend was hospitalized with brain and facial injuries and the other guy's only injury was a bruise on his hand. But when I gave my statement to the police almost every question was along the lines of, "What did your friend do to provoke him? Were you guys out looking for trouble? Did you try to start a fight?"
Feminists are absolutely right when they say those questions shouldn't be asked of rape victims. But those questions shouldn't be asked of victims of any crimes.
[–]MyPaynis 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Those questions should be asked of people claiming to be victims of crimes. It's due diligence. Claiming to be a victim of a crime does not put you on a pedestal of purity. People often accuse others of a crime when they themselves were the one who committed the crime and the other person defended the self well or didn't do anything they were accused of. The police try to learn all of the facts not just one side from a likely biased source.
[–]jay212127 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What did your friend do to provoke him
You would be surprised at how this accusing phrasing can make a lot of people start talking. They get defensive and instinctively try to explain/backpedal. It may seem inflammatory, but in the end more of the truth/context will come out than if they asked in a more polite way.
[–]housewifeonfridays 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is the most relevant and informing comment on this while story. Thank you for pointing get out the unfortunate equality we all face when reporting crimes.
[–]willmaster123 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
It really depends. I know girls (and guys) who have been talked down or accused of lying when they reported rape. People say awful stuff like "you shouldn't have worn that skirt" or "You could have just pushed her off if you didn't want her to have sex with you".
This case is different because we KNOW it was rape because she was drugged, but not every case is that clear cut.
[–]torik0 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
People say
We're talking about reporting to police here, not a random passerby. Unfortunately you're right about the rape of men though, most people and police don't consider it as serious.
[–]willmaster123 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Typically they don't think its serious, but they believe it if it happens because they think no man would willingly admit he got raped unless it really happened. But even when believing it, they won't do anything because they don't think its a big deal.
But still, it is a problem for women that they aren't believed or extremely doubted. Idk how you guys can deny that. Not every single feminist issue is some crazy nutjob coming up with bullshit.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not us in denial; it's the feminists in denial that false accusations are common.
[–]willmaster123 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
why? Because you don't want women to admit that there are problems when it comes to reporting rape? I've seen it before, a lot. It's also a problem for guys.
[–]Archibald_Andino -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
"you shouldn't have worn that skirt"
The only people who say this are feminist saying everyone else is saying it.
You know multiple rape victims of both genders who've been talked down after reporting a rape to the police? Really? You really think anyone believes this for a second? Stop humiliating yourself.
I don't know anyone by the police, but definitely by other people in our social group. Also never known a guy who's been doubted, but I've also never known a guy who admitted to anyone that he was raped except for a few sexual assault incidences.
[–]fengpi 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link
It's how feminists help rape victims: "No one will believe you and the system won't help you because ZOMG RAPE CULTURE!!!11!!!"
Because of their benevolent wisdom.
[–]Jack92783 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
Not to mention "You're ruined, you're spoiled, nobody will ever want you again. Lots of women in your position kill themselves, it's now the only thing you are- a rape victim, this is now the foremost fact of your life, etc."
Rape is a terrible, unforgivable crime.
But... don't you think victims might have better prognoses if they weren't constantly told how traumatized they're supposed to be?
[–]manicmonkeys 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
That's a big one.
Rape is terrible. But it's not the worst thing. People can chop your dick off, kneecap you, give you a lobotomy, break all your fingers so you'll never be able to use them well again, gouge out your eyes, etc.....rape is NOT the worst thing that can happen to you.
If people can get through the Nazi death camps, the Gulag, storming the beaches of Normandy, having stillborn children, and so on, people can get through being raped.
[+][deleted] -23 points-22 points-21 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
"Chop your dick off"
Uh, I'm pretty sure that constitutes a form of sex offense...
[–]manicmonkeys 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
How is that relevant?
[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Okay... "Rape is terrible. But it's not the worst thing. People can chop your dick off"
I'm pretty sure that's still rape. Does that clear it up for you?
[–]trenderman3000 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
How's that rape
[–]Drowzey 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Everything is rape if you're a feminist
[–]oneinchterror 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How dare you rape me with your logic!
[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
What would you call it if someone stuck a hot curling iron up a woman's Hoohah? Rape and a whole lot of other shit on top of it, no?
Check it out. Let's assume for a half second that "people can chop your dick off" is an intentional (rather than accidental) thing. Rape is a sexual assault, Right? Sexual assault is sexual violence, right? Sexual violence encompasses acts directed against a person's sexuality, right? Sexuality is a person's capacity to have an erotic experience, right? Therefore, physically assaulting someone to circumscribe their capacity to have an erotic experience is indeed sexual violence, is therefore sexual assault, and is therefore a form of rape in the same way that sticking a hot curling iron up a woman's hoohah is. It's pretty well established that the classic "penetration" model of defining rape is simply not sufficient to address the underlying principle behind sex crime laws, which, at the basest level, is a matter of consent.
[–]lightslightup 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Sure, it would fall under the umbrella of sexual assault/violence, but it's not rape.
With what your saying, you could equate any two things that happen to fall into a similar subset.
Using your logic: A dog is a mammal, mammals are animals. Animals are living things. Cats are animals. Cats are mammals. Therefore, dogs are cats.
The problem is that you're failing to realize that rape, legally, is defined as nonconsensual sexual intercourse that is usually the result of coercion, either physically or emotionally. Legally, that's what's considered rape. This can happen to people of every gender. It doesn't involve genital mutilation. It's strictly sex involving two or more people, one of whom does not give consent.
All of the abstract conceptions of rape are great for sociological/psychological discussion, but they do nothing for enforcing the law.
Chopping someone's dick off would be fucking horrible, but it has nothing to do with rape.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
I hear what you're saying, and it makes sense. But, think about this for a second. If rape involves sexual intercourse, well what is sexual intercourse? Legally, it's defined as some sort of penetration (anal, oral or vaginal) by a tongue, a finger, a dick or an inanimate object. We've established that the person doing the penetration isn't necessarily the perpetrator, guys can get raped too and having a hard on doesn't mean he wanted it.
Given that, let's assume a sexual motivation is involved. Mr X get's his jollies off by violating a person's sexuality.
Mr X tackles finds a drunk woman, gives her a roofie colada and crams a dildo up her junk once she's completely incapacitated. That's rape, hands down.
Mr. X finds uses a similarly drunk guy, gives him the same roofies, as soon as that guy is suitably incapacitated, Mr X puts some alien-looking PV 5000 on the guy's dick and you're going to tell me that kind of scene isn't rape because no vagina, ass or mouth was penetrated? That's horse shit and I think you know it.
Just the same, chopping off someone's dick is rape. Yeah, that kind of crime is also a slew of other things, but that doesn't exclude rape from the equation somehow. The whole thing boils down to nothing more than motive and denying someone else's capacity to exercise sexual agency. The legal definitions, as they stand, belong on the short bus. The penetration standard means molesting a guy in his sleep with a jail-house Fifi isn't rape, and I think you know better than that.
[–]manicmonkeys 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Rape is a kind of sexual assault.
Mutilating someone's genitals is a type of sexual assault.
A Mercedez Benz is not the same thing as a Ford Focus, even though they're both types of cars.
[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
What is this?
[–]manicmonkeys 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I am an advocate of letting people decide for themselves if they want to be circumcised, as opposed to having the choice made for them.
[–]lumloon 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
third world too since Muslims also do it.
Having to end the practice in both Judaism and Islam may be a bit tough
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Rape is legally defined as unwanted penetration of the anus, mouth or vag with a penis, finger, tongue or foreign object.
So, tackling a woman and putting a dildo in her vag is rape, but using a hot curling iron isn't?
[–]manicmonkeys 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Someone can be raped AND mutilated. They're not mutually exclusive. But they're also distinct things.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
That's my point. The distinction is somewhat false. Circumcision, as much as I view it as a consent thing, isn't rape because of the intent involved, it's not a sexually motivated thing. But chopping a dick off for sexual gratification? Somehow that's considered specifically not rape on top of the other associated crimes because no penetration. If you forcibly coerce a woman into a titty fuck... That's not rape per the law, and another example of why it's ridiculous to use penetration as a model to determine the charge.
[–]fengpi 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They wish rape to be all things at once. The worst thing in the galaxy, including unenthusiastic sex after a glass o' Riesling.
[–]Bloke_Named_Bob 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I have a friend who was raped and she told me she was very confused at first because she didn't feel some sort of horrible trauma as a result and didn't get PTSD like all the feminists insist she should. She actually thought there was something wrong with her as a result and that started eating her up inside.
That said, I fully acknowledge that people react to trauma in different ways so I have no doubt many rape victims do develop PTSD. The sick thing is that feminists want to make rape something that defines you rather than something you should heal and move past.
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
One of the problems is that the most common form of rape is probably the only serious crime that's based on an act that people do to have fun all the time. The only thing that turns this perfectly normal act into a serious crime is the mind of the absence of consent.
Now think about all the normal everyday pleasurable things you do and ask yourself what if one of them was forced onto you? Sure it's assault but you can imagine that a lot of people just suck it up and go "alright let's get this over with" - feeling more hassled than anything else.
[–]JebberJabber 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's the opposite of the truth from what I've seen, which is a lot of women writing first-hand about their own experience of rape.
The usual pattern is people are very supportive at first but after a few months they start expecting the victim to get better.
If they don't get better at a "reasonable" rate, and if it can not be hidden (because of PTSD, say), they get blamed for malingering / not trying hard enough / giving in to fear / becoming a professional victim.
There's this article / essay / other thing I read probably 15-20 years ago, written by a feminist too, IIRC, that argues exactly this point. That the terribleness of rape is a patriarchal construct: that a woman's value is mostly in her vagina and its "purity". Then, if someone "steals" that by raping her, her value drops enormously and her life in classy society is basically destroyed.
I wish I could find the essay again! Occasions come up so frequently where I wish I could link to it but I can't, because all my Internet searching skills fail me here. Probably on Usenet, or on some unindexed random FTP server on a random IP address.
[–]lt_hindu 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What are some examples of feminist that would deter a woman from go forward with reporting? That it doesn't matter they won't believe you cuz no evidence??
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]JebberJabber 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
"Screenshots of Tumblr" sounds like you have been on TumbrlnAction. That's a bad place for an MRA - you will subtract from your understanding of feminism by being there. A lot of the stuff is obviously faked. A lot more is possibly faked, same as this post. And like this post there is seldom any source given, let alone a credible source.
Who cares what happens on Tumblr? I've been around quite a few feminist sites and individual feminists. I don't recall seeing a single reference to Tumblr.
MRAs complain about Tumblrinas so I guess they exist (even if half of them are trolls), but don't they abandon Tumblr when they graduate from high school? Individual crazy kids think up all sort of silly stuff, how is it significant?
[–]theskepticalidealist -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You must be new to all this. If you think it's just tumblr you've got a lot to learn.
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Quite the opposite. I'd say I'm much more informed about what feminists have been saying in general and about police and rape in particular than most people on this thread. I've been around feminists on and off since the late 1980s.
My impression is that a lot of MRAs think they can learn about feminism (and about rape) by reading MRA sites. That's about as sensible as trying to learn about evolution by reading creationist sites.
I'm intrigued now. Can you point out any influential feminists on Tumblr, or any feminist site anywhere that discourages reporting to police?
[–]theskepticalidealist -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Simply put, when feminists tell women there's no point in coming forward because they won't be believed and their rapist will probably get off anyway, they deter women from reporting. When they tell women that rape is so common and committed by men that don't even know they're doing it, they imply it's not important enough to report and so normalised that it's unavoidable anyway. Everything they say about rape deters women from reporting rape. Now see the real problem here isn't that they aren't reporting, it's that what they believe was a lie
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The thing that feminists don't get about rednecks is they're largely an honor culture. You don't touch a women where I come from in public. I once saw 7 guys at a bar get up and drag a guy outside and beat his ass because he shoved a waitress.
[–]AloysiusC 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women are treated like nobility. Feminism is just an attempt to maintain that culture within a moral framework based on equality. That's why they so often contradict themselves.
[–]Sharkictus 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
More or less in honor cultures, they have cultures they have to tell guys to stop treating men shittily and women equally.
Which more or less is humans stahp being shitty.
Which every philosophy does.
[–]Lecks 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Beating the shit out of a guy for shoving a waitress doesn't sound honorable.
Eh that's fine but you misunderstand what an honor culture is, it can be perceived honor, doesn't refute the point.
[–]parasitius 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Guys are actually some of the biggest opponents of rape out there. In fact, so much so that it fucking scares me. How many times do you hear a woman start ranting that if a guy ever x y z, she'd hunt him down with her rifle and blow his brains out - consequences be damned? Never.
A certain class of macho guy? All the time. And you can tell if it really came down to it, they wouldn't be thinking through the evidence carefully. It scares me so much, in fact, ... I'm extra cautious even with silly things, like a girl who had one beer... when common sense says no one loses any self-awareness on one beer
But when you're a feminist who doesn't realize the existence of INDIVIDUALS but sees the whole world in collectives like gender and race... well... you fail to explain quite a bit of the complexity of the real world. It's for small and feeble minds
[–]Empirical_Pugilist 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So if I can find one person whose life didn't adhere to your worldview, that means your "myth"is destroyed?
[–]michaelnkristy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I recently posted this in r/feminism. You can pretty much guess what happened afterwards. God forbid if you post the truth.
Standing ovations for your bravery and courage
[–]AlwaysABride 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why does she feel entitled to invalidate the experiences of other women? #TwoX
[–]civilsaint 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I would call feminist claims a bunch of smoke and mirrors, but they are just smoke and bullshit.
Once again, feminists harm women.
[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
"feminists harm women" Couldn't have said that better, myself. Thank you!
Harms the world.
[–]FreeBroccoli 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not really relevant to the MRM though.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]SleepingSlave 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Actually, I think that added quality to the story. The idea that they are rednecks breaks a stereotype. The cops being rednecks creates the idea that they'd just ignore her. But even the redneck COPS were bending over backwards to help.
In fact, if I had to point to anything in the story that I doubt was true, it'd be the fact that the cops were rednecks and she just included that as bonus embellishment.
[–]DammitEd[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Most rednecks I know are proud of being a redneck haha
[–]SIGRemedy 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Am from the south, can confirm. Redneck is a proud label, not something they would hide from.
[–]SleepingSlave 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've heard rednecks themselves...I guess not necessarily wear it as a badge of pride, but they don't kid themselves. They don't really get upset over it. I think the people that would get upset over it are the ones that have nothing in common with actual rednecks except perhaps an accent and the area code of their phone number.
[–]GoldenGonzo 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
What does this have to do with Men's Rights? Oh that's right, absolutely fucking nothing. I think 3rd wave feminism is shit too, but feminism doesn't have jack shit to do with us.
This sub is dying, the message is lost, because a large portion of it only exists to be an opposition to feminism. What does this post have to do with the furthering of men's issues? Not a damned thing, it's just a spiteful post against feminism. You all need to realize that as long as you are satisfied solely existing to fight feminism, than this "movement" is doomed to fail.
Downvote me if you wish, you're part of the problem. Complaining/bitching/moaning about feminism, and posting "wins" against them is better left for places like /r/TumblrInAction, this place is supposed be about being constructive, not about being resentful children.
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
MEN'S RIGHTS ≠ ANTI-FEMINISM
You get the repost too:
[–]TenderBittle 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
So much this. I'm having a difficult time seeing how this sub is legitimately concerned with men's right. Especially when I keep seeing the following line of reasoning - A woman got away with x, but if a man did x he would have been punished. I don't believe x is wrong but if you punish the man you should also punish the woman.
The only connection I see between this story and men's rights is that men who are the victims of sexual assault are often afraid they won't be taken seriously. The conclusion from this story seems to be that in similar instances where the woman is afraid she won't be taken seriously the concern is unwarranted. So the connection I'm drawing is that a man's worry that his sexual assault won't be taken seriously is also a non issue that's merely being perpetuated as such by certain men's rights groups on the internet.
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh look another concerned citizen with no posting history at all. What a surprise.
[–]TenderBittle 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What are you implying?
For the umpteenth time: If you want better things posted, then post them. Complaining that you're not satisfied with the quality, might make you think you look good or it might make you feel good about yourself but it does not do the one thing you're trying to sell us you're concerned about: improve the quality.
[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think 3rd wave feminism is shit too
Pretty much all feminism is shit.
but feminism doesn't have jack shit to do with us
Tell that to the feminists who fight us at every opportunity.
a large portion of it only exists to be an opposition to feminism
We don't really have much choice. The few attempts to address men's issues without clashing with feminism resulted in either joining feminism in blaming men or being forgotten and ignored.
this place is supposed be about being constructive, not about being resentful children
This kind of complaint always comes from people who contribute little or nothing themselves. Oh look, I couldn't find a single submission in the last 6 months you made to men's rights. Care to show us when your last submission was?
[–]Sharkictus 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think 3rd wave feminism is shit too Pretty much all feminism is shit.
That's a little silly. Outside the Saudi government, and literal woman haters, if it's after 1900s it's impossible to be completely anti-feminist. It's like being anti-philosophy, but even more impossible, because it's such a wide breadth. Despite the academic elites attempting to pigeonhole it, which is why many people won't call themselves feminists (including myself) but everyone is a little feministic.
You'd have be against women's suffrage (unless you are against democracy as a whole, then you're still not anti-feminism), anti-women working, pro forced marriage, pro women are property, pro rape, pro sexual assault, pro forced abortion, pro eugenic female gender abortion, etc.
An ideology/philosophy that has incredibly big ass tent of ideas, and is relatively young, is hard to call a crock of shit and is intellectually dishonest.
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
if it's after 1900s it's impossible to be completely anti-feminist.
Watch me ;)
You'd have be against ...
Fallacious reasoning. Being against an ideology that claims to fight for XYZ, does not imply that you're against XYZ. Besides, a movement is not defined by its goals but by its method for achieving them and the arguments for doing so.
women's suffrage
Not correct. A number of feminists were also against both women's suffrage and universal suffrage.
An ideology/philosophy that has incredibly big ass tent of ideas
It's not really as broad as you think. In fact, it's incredibly narrow in focus and more reactionary than revolutionary. Unless you consider the designation of Newton's Principia Mathematica as a "rape manual" to be an alternative approach to mathematics :D
[–]Paxnos 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm also struggling to find a sub that is just against all kinds of sexism, not hated-based or revenge-seeking.
I've found something similar in a book called -The hazards of being male: Surviving the Myth of Masculine Privilege- It raises awareness of male's own problems and warns men against the "guilt culture" and "self-denial" It also encourages men to fight for their rights instead of fighting feminism, to "liberate themselves"
While I don't doubt op's good intentions sharing that fb status, I don't think that is reliable as information or enough to make a point. I found two or three interesting comments talking about femism making the situation worse for the victims in a civilized way, but this looks like the mirror version of Tumblr.
[–]housewifeonfridays 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Can you post a book report on this sub? This is exactly what I am here for. Tell us more!
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You should submit this as its own post!
Every once in a while when I'm feeling grumpy I go through this sub's front page and just downvote everything that's just about feminism and has nothing to do with men's rights, and doesn't somehow excuse itself by being an otherwise excellent submission. I know the mods feel differently, but IMHO this endless feminism-bashing does not contribute to advancing men's rights, therefore I downvote. Not just out of disagreement.
[–]Bayerrc 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My sister had a very similar experience. Except she was asked if she led him on, was told by ppl that it was kind of her fault, and was not taken seriously by many people. So, go fuck yourself OP, I'm happy you were treated properly but that doesn't mean everyone is.
[–]Lachtan 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Literally fuck feminism, because one woman said there's absolutely no problem reporting a rape in US. Oh well, must be true!
Circlejerk is strong in this one.
[–]KumonRoguing 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The army has a lot of problems, reporting rape is not one. We are merely a reflection of the civilian world. Because of this, I know rape reports are taken seriously. If you don't report for you, I get that. However, please think about future victims.
[–]Hiscore 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I hate when random civilians from school try and tell me about the rape epidemic in the military. Bitch, my command tells me not to go to even look at the women from the support company that shares our training area.
[–]KumonRoguing 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I just had to travel 6hrs Wednesday to do 10hrs of sharp training, and then 6hrs back. Tell me about how the army has a rape epidemic.
[–]Hiscore 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's really absurd how the Army tries to prevent rape for their image and how civilians still somehow think we have a huge problem when it's not even as bad as the civilian world.
[–]aluciddreamer 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
This is a promising account, but in and of itself, it doesn't really do anything to destroy some of the concerns feminist have about rape. I've heard accounts from women who claim to have been brutally raped and in fear for their lives only to be greeted by police officers with irritation, skepticism, and a bias toward disbelief. Also, working in corrections, I have a number of co-workers who've previously served as deputies locally and in other states, who've affirmed that this was sometimes an issue.
None of this advances the idea that this is, or has ever been, a "systemic" problem, much less a systematic one. Judging from some of the people I've spoken to, any number of factors could go into this kind of treatment -- the number of rape allegations that are later recanted, the amount of paperwork that goes into filing a rape allegation, bad timing, any number of factors regarding the biases an officer might hold in that particular situation -- yet for all I know, these cases are outliers. On the other hand, given the rigor with which we apply PREA, it could be a reflection of changes in policy where she lives. And if this is the case, policies such as this tend to be a double-edged sword: good for rape victims, bad for people who are falsely accused.
Also, bear in mind that there are some important factors to consider. How long did it take her to report the assault? Did she keep the clothes she was wearing when she was assaulted? Were there signs of vaginal tearing or bruising? Did she report it in time for them to do a tox screen that will yield promising results? Were there witnesses? All these things have the potential to inform an investigation.
Personally, I hope the investigation yields enough evidence to reasonably prosecute the alleged rapist before they go forward with it. But even if they get the guy, she still hasn't gone through the actual process of trying him.
That said, I'd definitely be interested to hear updates from this person about how things are going for her.
You're missing the point. The person who wrote this was detered from reporting based on lies and fear mongoring
[–]aluciddreamer 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She was deterred by accounts from people who claimed to be victims of sexual assault, and whose reported experienced with the police were awful. Her account doesn't prove that these experiences didn't happen, just that they didn't happen to her. Moreover, the most contentious issues are generally about rape trials, and judging from her account, they're still investigating her report.
[–]thedoze 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
People don't always do what they should,
Pretty much. It doesn't imply a systemic problem, and it certainly doesn't come from some subconscious hatred of women.
[–]theskepticalidealist -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How was it a lie? Many many women are sexually assaulted and doubted and not given the help they need. Thousands of rape kits sit untested because cops simply do not care about the crime of rape. Feminist don't share these stories to keep women from reporting, they share hear stories to bring attention to the fact that rape is not taken seriously and victims are often not helped. In this case, the woman was helped and that's awesome. But that doesn't invalidate the millions of other victims who have had different experiences.
[–]Akesgeroth 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'd really like to know what campus that is because the fact that they immediately contacted the cops makes them good in my book.
[–]Nezzajj 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's scary to think they took all this from word of mouth, especially the lack of evidence part
[–]KingMong 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yup my friend was raped at 15, wouldn't report it because she didn't think it would be taken seriously, guy went on to rape other people before getting caught, she only knew he'd been caught when she seen his picture in the Paper years later...
Report people, for the sake of others.
[–]Pseudonymble 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. Because rape IS serious. Which is why you can't just accuse someone of rape. They will be seriously investigated. They face serious allegations with serious repercussions.
It seems only recently though, false accusation of rape is also being treated seriously. He said/she said doesn't immediately mean he's guilty. It means one of these two people are guilty of a serious offense.
[–]CatManDontDo 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wonder if her narrative will change if they find that she wasn't raped or her alleged rapist is found innocent?
[–]INTERNET_TOUGHGUY666 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Isn't it strange that the foundation of the US legal system, "innocent until proven guilty", has no precedence in cases of rape alone? Even murderers are not refused this right and they ended another life. Then people mince words and back you into a corner to say rape is even worse. The hard reality is that it's not worse than dying. People only say this because they haven't died. When did the legal system become so weak that it couldn't hold its ground in the face of obvious appeal to emotion?
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're absolutely right. It doesn't even stand comparison. Take 2nd world war. The Hungarian soldiers almost always were raping the women and killing the men. Who were better in the 1950s, 1960s and the following years? The women who survived war and were alive, or the dead men?
[–]omegaphallic 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This right here. Exposing Feminist lies and the terror campaign they use to ironically repress women by scaring them, in order to control them.
Its disgusting.
[–]stuck_at_starbucks 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminists scare women out of reporting rape, telling them only bad things will come of it and it's useless because the police won't help them. In actuality, the vast majority of police depts take great measures to make sure that women feel safe and comfortable reporting rape. Male victims of sexual assault are far more likely to experience negative response from police and others.
[–]aluciddreamer 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Male victims of sexual assault are far more likely to experience negative response from police and others.
If it gives you any hope, I can tell you for a fact that where I work, we are compelled to take all rape allegations seriously. This has been the case since I first started this career path, a little over ten years ago. In fact, when I was first being trained for this job, it was going around that an inmate known for a history of being housed in psych obs had alleged that he was raped by a computer, and the responding officers were still obliged to take it seriously.
Today, when a male inmate reports that he was the victim of a sexual assault, we tend to be more understanding. Some of us have even been trained to operate a landline for victims of sexual abuse to make their allegations in private. It was really, really depressing how often this phone would ring only to have the person on the other end hang up. You can chalk some of it up to people getting the wrong number or people fucking around to see what the number was about, but given the number of people who would just sit there on the other end of the line, I suspect a number of them were victims who just couldn't bring themselves to talk about what had happened to them.
It's still not perfect. If we're equipped to investigate an allegation internally (and we usually are), there's a strong chance that the report will wind up in the public record. I don't know whether or not we've implemented any procedures which change this (I hope we have), but I've noticed a lot of male officers tend to become really uncomfortable at the thought of another man being raped. As soon as the word gets out, people puff up their chests and talk about how it would never happen to them.
So while there's generally an air of professionalism that we apply to the actual allegation, as well as several active endeavors to make inmates aware of the avenues they can take to report an allegation of sexual assault during orientation, the way people talk about it behind closed doors tends to be a more accurate reflection of how [we expect] they'd treat the victim face to face.*
To be fair, though*, it tends to be officers who weren't involved, but who somehow hear about it, that act this way. It could be a coping mechanism, but I often think that it's at least in part the result of religious and cultural expectations about what men are and are not supposed to be.
*Edited for clarity, asterisks next to the lines.
[–]macsenscam 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've had female friends experience both reactions from police, but if we just give up on reporting rape then the fucking rapists have won dammit!
[–]Quantization 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah she seems really shy and worried about it, that's why she posted a Facebook status.
/s
Sorry but this woman is an attention seeker. I'm more worried about women who falsely accuse men of rape.
[–]Trollaatori 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So what about the thousands of unanalysed rape kits?
[–]questionnmark 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminists are to rape what fossil fuel companies are to climate change. What I mean is that on the surface both kinds claim that they want to prevent 'the bad', but they have a conflict of interest as it isn't in their best interests to actually solve the problem.
Realistic information on rape, rape prevention and realistic standards for the classification of rape are all things that would reduce the funding for feminist led organisations. So they are about as complicit in my opinion in many ways as the catholic church hierarchy was towards child abuse.
[–]killcat -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This a 1000 times, they could do more good by creating a series of self defense classes then all of their whining and protesting combined, but that would be "victim blaming".
[–]germinvermin 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
"no hard evidence" ... but cops are investigating anyway, going to fucking ruin this guy's reputation without any evidence.
[–]gmcalabr 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There's such a thing as soft evidence; the guy was seen in the area, car parcked outside her place at the time, him arguing on the porch, etc.
[–]germinvermin 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is it possible that she's had second thoughts about consensual sex with the guy, doesn't like him anymore because of the arguments, and is now making shit up to get back at him? This kind of thing has happened a LOT in the past. Just because he's been around and they've argued doesn't make him guilty of rape. This whole "soft evidence" bullshit is part of what's wrong with rape allegations.
[–]dontpet 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for posting this. It's such a helpful message for women and it never occurred to me how infrequent that message is set out.
I've also been blind to the effect of this behavior, discounting the expectation that a rape victim will be cared for and listened to by the police.
[–]CapnHatchmo 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Above all else, I'm glad that she got the help she needed. It's still a shitty situation, but it'd be even worse if she still felt helpless and alone.
[–]Symos404 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I swear feminists are actually trying to make it difficult for rape victims. They encourage listen and believe so that even fake accusers will be believed, and at the same time pretend that reports won't be taken seriously. So those who lie are encouraged and those who are real victims are discouraged.
[–]RedPresident 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If women know they can go to the police, or men in general, for help with their problems, then where will feminists get their power?
[–]AWright5 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Now if this was a story about a woman who claimed that she received poor support from her family and the police after being raped.. This would be on r/tumblrinaction and people would be saying that one case isn't representative of all and that it probably didn't happen. "Who gave me no support? Fucking men." Would have gotten everyone riled up.
[–]HSPremier 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
I am a male that interned for a women's rights organization and I have met at least few hundred feminists and not one believed that rape shouldn't be reported.
Please show me a link of a, legit, women's rights organization (UN Women, CATW, UNIFEM, etc.) that states this.
No one said feminists say rape shouldn't be reported, they said feminists deter women from reporting by lying to them about how common rape is, lying about what kind of person rapes, and lies about pointless it is to report it
[–]DammitEd[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
That's not what this post is saying. The woman is saying that the feminist rhetoric of "rape is never taken seriously by the cops" nearly discouraged her from reporting her rape. No one ever said feminists don't want rape reported.
[+]HSPremier -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
No feminist believes that rape is not taken seriously.
[–]theskepticalidealist 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol what? That's the basis of their idea of "rape culture".
[–]AloysiusC 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
What an amazingly ignorant assertion. The entire narrative of rape culture is based on the belief that society condones or "normalizes" rape.
[–]HSPremier -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No, what's more ignorant is that people post shit like this but don't even know or understand what feminism is about.
You don't get to decide what feminism is about. Only the behavior of feminists on aggregate determines that. And that shows a very clear agenda to propagate that rape is not taken seriously.
Your assertion is easy to prove false.
[–]HSPremier 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
LOL I asked for a serious feminist organization, what the heck is this?
You are right. I don't decide what feminism is about. Feminists do and how this subreddit portrays them is totally and utterly wrong.
[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
LOL I asked for a serious feminist organization
You didn't. You said "No feminist believes that rape is not taken seriously. "
what the heck is this?
Your no true Scotsman fallacy.
Feminists do and how this subreddit portrays them is totally and utterly wrong.
Certainly not as wrong as your assertion.
[–]Zoidbergluver 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Feminists have by and large improved our society. There are the extremists, but they are just vocal and don't actually change laws. Getting women the right to vote, get college degrees in STEM fields, and give women equal opportunity in the workplace are all things that have happened in the last 100 years because of feminists. No group is perfect and they can definitely be criticized, but in general, the world has made a lot of improvements (like cell phones and wifi) thanks to feminism.
If you really feel that "disgusted" by women, maybe you should stay on r/theredpill
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You're delusional. The world is much worse because of feminism.
[–]Zoidbergluver 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
How so? Without feminism, we never would have gotten to the moon, created wifi, or had cell phones. Women did all those things, but they would never have had the opportunity even 50 years ago. What terrible thing has feminism done that invalidates the whole movement despite these huge successes?
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok you're a completely delusional troll. I didn't know that Armstrong and the other who went on the Moon were women. Go back to your safe space
[–]Zoidbergluver 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Margaret Hamilton was a director at NASA and wrote the software that got us on the moon.
Learn to listen to logic instead of going "lalala go away" when things don't match your world view.
[–]Odds_ 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Anecdote != Evidence
I sympathize strongly with you guys on the regular, but for God's sake, that this woman had a good experience with the police doesn't negate the fact that a lot of women's rape accusations aren't treated properly, just the same as a lot of men's rape accusations aren't treated properly.
[–]Jack92783 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's the secondary point.
The major point is that telling rape victims "If you're the victim of a crime, the police will treat you terribly and nobody will believe you, and you'll be humiliated" serves no purpose except to demotivate victims from reporting the crime to which they were subjected and curry righteous indignation for political purposes.
[–]theskepticalidealist 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You miss the point and since there's so many of you I assume this thread has been linked somewhere else. The point is about feminists lying about rape and fear mongoring so that women end up with a wholly distorted view of it all.
[–]makeswordcloudsagain 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here is a word cloud of every comment in this thread, as of this time: http://i.imgur.com/7Ato2U0.png
[source code] [contact developer] [request word cloud]
[–]MattBD 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Relevant Guardian article.
[–]Sibraxlis 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why would she go to the wrong jurisdiction on purpose?
[–]kevingp12 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminism: Women are treated unfairly in society--> they go to mistreat men to regain their dignity. But it seems like they don't know their science well enough: Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, guess what? Men are going to get their dignity back.
[–]CaptainTeaBag24I7 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is all so fucked up, even to the point that everyone is now using the word "feminist" for people that aren't feminists what so ever. A feminist or feminism is "...a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, personal, and social rights for women.". What feminism to a lot of people now is women getting a better life than men or something along those lines.. It's like.. All people do is categorize people, for which women AND men are at fault for. Most feminists (the ones that aren't actually feminists) categorize all men to the worst of what a man can be - lying, raping, disloyal etc. That's stupid, but it's not like we don't do it. We categorize a lot of women to "the ones who belong in the kitchen" or we sexualise them beyond the point where it is ok. When will both parties finally understand that this isn't a fight between the two of "us", it's a fight between us because we've made it that. The real fight is against the sickos who think rape is alright, the ones that rape or the ones that are afraid of all men because "men can rape - therefore I am in danger when I'm around men"..
[–]Impacatus 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Eh, it's not that I don't agree "rape culture" is hugely exaggerated, but one anecdote hardly destroys it.
This could easily happen the other way, with a man having a better-than-expected experience and blaming the MRM for discouraging him.
[–]scanspeak 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
The Gian Ghomeshi trial suggests that the legal system isn't skeptical enough about rape/sexual assault accusations.
[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Um why? Do you realise the judge specifically said the women were lying? It's not like he got off on a technicality, the claimants were so dishonest it was impossible to think they were credible
[–]H8-Bit -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's Jian, and he's a Canadian. That's practically the Third World. Not comparable in the slightest.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Has it occurred to you that much of this might be down to subjective impressions? A rape victim who reports this, will in all likelihood, perceive normal questioning as very uncomfortable or outright harassment. When investigating a crime, all kinds of questions need to be asked just to get a clear picture of what happened. It's often perceived by people as an expression of doubt in the validity of the story but that's because they don't understand how such an investigation has to be conducted.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Still, the study I linked demonstrates from a subjective standpoint there is possibly an issue
The full text is behind a payroll so I don't know what it demonstrates. The abstract certainly demonstrates nothing.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
But how does this tie into the subjectivity of the matter? A medical examination after rape is going to be a very unpleasant experience no matter what. Yet it's usually necessary to increase the chance of conviction. I haven't read the whole document (not even close) but what I've seen amounts to asking the victims how they feel about how they were treated. No matter how well you treat them, any kind of investigation is going to find a significant number of people feel very uncomfortable.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The part discussing the victims reactions are not subjective, it's how the victims feel.
I would say it doesn't get more subjective than that.
I'll take a look at the study.
[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So, feminists are actually making it so that women don't bother going to the cops? 1st time saying/using this word on Reddit, but. Backfired like crazy!
& what they say about them not taking the women seriously, I think they meant that about men, right? Right?:\
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a confusing post. She says she was drugged (with what?) and sexually assaulted. If the statement is factual, then she did the right thing. If she was drunk and fucked the guy, that's not sexual assault. If she passed out and he had his way with her, sexual assault. She attacks feminism for being drugged and reporting sexual assault, which is implied that she didn't consent to the drug introduced as the opposite would mean she drugged herself and did something she regretted, then it would make sense to report it. If she got hopped up on ecstasy by her own free will, had sex, and later regretted it, that's not assault.
If I get drunk and kill a man, even if I was drinking with that man, I am liable.
I have a hard time believing this is real. And if fake: fucking creepy.
I'm not a feminist; just egalitarian. And some things about this seem sketchy.
Edit: I had an adventurous 20's. No one refers to themselves as drugged. "Oh dude, I'm so drugged right now". It never happens. To state drugged implies lack of consent.
"Oh dude, I took some drugs." That's what I would expect if it was with consent.
[–]bestbeforeyesterday 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So there is no rape culture after all? I, FOR ONE, AM SHOCKED
[+]willmaster123 -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because she was drugged so the police absolutely know it was rape. If she wasn't it would probably be a different story.
I personally know a lot of girls who didn't have people believe them when they said they were raped. Out of the maybe 4-5 rapes that have happened to people I know growing up, EVERY SINGLE ONE has been doubted by people. People would say horrible stuff and gossip openly that they were lying about it.
Don't act like this isn't an issue for both man and woman, because it totally is. Its unfortunate because the reason people aren't believed is because false rape accusations are so common. If there was no false rape accusations, there wouldn't be any doubt when it comes to rape.
[–]Zoidbergluver -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
To be fair... Most women aren't raped by strangers. They are raped by their husbands, "friends", or even the cops. I am very glad this woman got the support she needed, but you also can't blame women who share their stories and have had different experiences.
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
99.99% of women are never raped. According to the official statistics. No need for your lies and brainwashing bs here
[–]Zoidbergluver -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Wow. I need a source to back up those "statistics". In America, about 20% of women and just under 2% of men are raped in their lifetime. The world rape stats are closer to 35% of women.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/rape-in-america-cdc-study_n_5784686.html
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The official reports show the truth, not your made up bs Huffington post:
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
And you're citing a feminist newspaper. I'm citing official statistics.
GTFO
[–]Zoidbergluver -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I cited the CDC. The FBI reports it slightly higher, here is map made using statistics reported by the FBI per state.
https://protectivemothersalliance.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/screen-shot-2015-11-24-at-3-27-35-am.png
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
The article here is kinda iffy but the numbers are all there When men made to penetrate are considered raped, the number of men raped jumps from 1 in 71 in a lifetime to 1.1% of men in a year. (It is worth noting that the same study found that 1.1% of women are raped in the same timeframe.) This is a study from 2010, (When re-evaluated in 2012 they found the same results) I could not tell how recent that map was but I've got directly contradictory statistics.
[–]Zoidbergluver -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Our sources are not contradictory at all. 1.1% of women are raped every year which equals about a 20% chance in a woman's lifetime. This is a quote from your source:
Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives, including completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or alcohol/drug facilitated completed penetration. [2]
My source from the CDC said 19%, so those are consistent.
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
OK. That is what NISVS reported. But you have blatantly ignored (or innocently missed) the part where when all the data is compiled and published that women are properly represented but men are not. I can almost guarantee you (due to how exactly similar our stats are) that when the final numbers are reported in the CDC stats, men made to penetrate aren't considered raped, leading to a much, much lower number of victims than there are in reality.
I just want you to know that I have no doubt your stat is correct but my reply was to point out how horrible saying:
about 20% of women and just under 2% of men are raped in their lifetime.
is to male victims considering I provided a source that says men are raped at an equal rate to women. (Which you have nitpicked from, missing the entire point of the article.)
NISVS found that 1.1% of men and 1.1% of women were raped in the past year among persons outside of jails and prisons.[1]
That is what the source material said. Your quote: "Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives," erases male victims of rape by ignoring men made to penetrate, which is a horribly sexist thing to do.
[–]Zoidbergluver -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I'm sorry I looked again at your source, but it explicitly says men are raped much less than women. Maybe I'm missing a key sentence or something? But either way, rape should be taken seriously for men too and I am in no way trying to diminish that. I was disproving the dumbass who said "99.9 of women aren't raped".
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
99.9 of women aren't raped
I agree that this is false. However in the same breath you said that 20% of women and 2% of men will be raped in their lives which is outright false. The NISVS data and what NISVS reported are two completely different things. In the data they found that 1 in 71 men were penetrated or there was an attempt, against their will. They also found that many men were made to penetrate against their will, but did not include those men in the report.
NISVS asked men about being forced to penetrate, but NISVS didn’t include men being forced to penetrate under the category rape.
Directly from my source.
The 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) found that 1.1% of non-incarcerated men were forced to have sex with another person in the past year. Defining rape victimization with the gender-neutral concept of being forced to have sex (including being “made to penetrate”), NISVS found that 1.1% of men and 1.1% of women were raped in the past year among persons outside of jails and prisons.[1]
How does this in any way say men are raped less than women?
[–]Blutarg -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow, that's serious.
[–]occupythekitchen -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminism is a movement to keep women oppressed if they are free they are uneeded that's why we see them degenerate into micro battles over insane things.
[–]Savipalooza -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Anecdotes don't give us the big picture. This one woman's success story doesn't undo the unsuccessful reports other women have made. Besides, feminists are not trying to discourage anyone from reporting rape. They're merely complaining about the inaction that often results from reporting it. That doesn't mean they don't want you to report it.
[+]kaltkalt -8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Still, it's a lot of trouble to get back at a guy for a bad date.
[–]CriminalMacabre -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Don't denounce them, the mysoginistic oppresive police won't help you! Let me, instead, preach hate about this and receive lots and lots of money for it for the poor victims that will receive a generous 10% of what i make with this!"
© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
[–]Lethn 252 points253 points254 points (46 children) | Copy Link
[–]Krissam 120 points121 points122 points (21 children) | Copy Link
[–]honestlyimeanreally 48 points49 points50 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]AssAssIn46 16 points17 points18 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]BudDePo 9 points10 points11 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]chinawinsworlds 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]unbuttoned 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AssAssIn46 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]slayerx1779 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mindless_gibberish 41 points42 points43 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Grasshopper21 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Fractoman 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Alarid 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thedoze 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]The_0bserver 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]vandaalen 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Akesgeroth 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]notaFireTripper 20 points21 points22 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CVTHIZZKID 22 points23 points24 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alkomb 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]atred 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]omegaphallic -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lethn 10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]zer0t3ch 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]Lachtan -6 points-5 points-4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]bufedad 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hypersapien 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MimeGod 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lachtan -4 points-3 points-2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]AidanHU4L -14 points-13 points-12 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AidanHU4L 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AidanHU4L 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]omyn 218 points219 points220 points (105 children) | Copy Link
[–]Manburpigx 34 points35 points36 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]omyn -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AnotherDAM 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays 22 points23 points24 points (35 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 9 points10 points11 points (25 children) | Copy Link
[–]NouberNou 3 points4 points5 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–]chinawinsworlds 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 17 points18 points19 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Shanguerrilla 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Shanguerrilla 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-Themis- -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -3 points-2 points-1 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]NouberNou 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]NouberNou 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]realityinhd 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KittyWithASnapback 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]JupeJupeSound 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]marauderp 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SilencingNarrative 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]SilencingNarrative 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]SilencingNarrative 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Celda 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]stop_stalking_me 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gmcalabr 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 8 points9 points10 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]AssAssIn46 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]infinitemile 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]omyn 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]atred 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]omyn 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]atred 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Endless_Summer 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KittyWithASnapback 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MeiFriend 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blutarg -3 points-2 points-1 points (32 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 9 points10 points11 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 4 points5 points6 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 5 points6 points7 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]megalady 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Spacyy 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]SIGRemedy -2 points-1 points0 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]SIGRemedy -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]questionnmark 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Kiwi150 -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Vandechoz 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 0 points1 point2 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]SIGRemedy -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]grad14uc 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]grad14uc 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SIGRemedy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]LadyAkinara 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]omyn 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Inthependant 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]omyn 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]marty2k 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JupeJupeSound -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Archibald_Andino 115 points116 points117 points (24 children) | Copy Link
[–]srtor 20 points21 points22 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]JupeJupeSound 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]MyPaynis -7 points-6 points-5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]unbelievablepeople 7 points8 points9 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]MyPaynis 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jay212127 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]willmaster123 4 points5 points6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]torik0 16 points17 points18 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]willmaster123 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]willmaster123 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Archibald_Andino -4 points-3 points-2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]willmaster123 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]fengpi 67 points68 points69 points (31 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jack92783 45 points46 points47 points (30 children) | Copy Link
[–]manicmonkeys 23 points24 points25 points (24 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] -23 points-22 points-21 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]manicmonkeys 9 points10 points11 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points (21 children) | Copy Link
[–]trenderman3000 11 points12 points13 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Drowzey 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]oneinchterror 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]lightslightup 9 points10 points11 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]manicmonkeys 2 points3 points4 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]garglemesh42 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]manicmonkeys 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lumloon 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]manicmonkeys 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]fengpi 13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bloke_Named_Bob 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JebberJabber 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lt_hindu 6 points7 points8 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (4 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]JebberJabber 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Sharkictus 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lecks 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]parasitius 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Empirical_Pugilist 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]michaelnkristy 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AlwaysABride 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]civilsaint 17 points18 points19 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]FreeBroccoli 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (6 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]SleepingSlave 7 points8 points9 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]DammitEd[🍰] 8 points9 points10 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SIGRemedy 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SleepingSlave 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]GoldenGonzo 15 points16 points17 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TenderBittle 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TenderBittle 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Sharkictus 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Paxnos 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]housewifeonfridays 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]housewifeonfridays 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bayerrc 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lachtan 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KumonRoguing 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hiscore 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]KumonRoguing 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Hiscore 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]aluciddreamer 5 points6 points7 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]aluciddreamer 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thedoze 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]aluciddreamer 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Akesgeroth 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Nezzajj 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KingMong 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pseudonymble 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CatManDontDo 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]INTERNET_TOUGHGUY666 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]omegaphallic 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]stuck_at_starbucks 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]aluciddreamer 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]macsenscam 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Quantization 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Trollaatori 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]questionnmark 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]killcat -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]germinvermin 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]gmcalabr 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]germinvermin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dontpet 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CapnHatchmo 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Symos404 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RedPresident 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AWright5 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HSPremier 1 point2 points3 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DammitEd[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[+]HSPremier -6 points-5 points-4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]HSPremier -3 points-2 points-1 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HSPremier 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AloysiusC 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (6 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Zoidbergluver 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Odds_ 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jack92783 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]makeswordcloudsagain 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MattBD 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Sibraxlis 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kevingp12 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CaptainTeaBag24I7 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Impacatus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]scanspeak 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]H8-Bit -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (13 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (7 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (5 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]AloysiusC 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] (3 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[+][deleted] (2 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[+][deleted] (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]Alkomb 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bestbeforeyesterday 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]willmaster123 -7 points-6 points-5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver -2 points-1 points0 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 1 point2 points3 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver -3 points-2 points-1 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bigeyedbunny[S] 0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver -2 points-1 points0 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zoidbergluver -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]thealpacalipsuponus 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blutarg -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]occupythekitchen -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Savipalooza -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]kaltkalt -8 points-7 points-6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CriminalMacabre -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link