The reason I've heard was they only protected assets pre-marriage. So if you married while on your way up the ladder and saw a lot of success after being married (as many would in their 20s-30s) the assets generated post-marriage would still be up for grabs.
That's only partially correct. Prenups can protect assets post-marriage pretty easily, but what you're thinking of is when one person becomes super successful. This isn't the case for middle / upper-middle class marriages. This is only the case when you unexpectedly make it rich.
To some extent, you can predict this. Currently, if my father dies, I will be inheriting over $7m worth of assets. By outlining that in our prenup, it prevents the courts from throwing out the agreement based on that alone. People also often do this with stock options with non-public companies.
I've heard of judges just throwing them out anyway.
Severability clauses typically mean the entire agreement rarely is thrown out, but this is known to happen. Usually, it's because the prenup is drafted by the people themselves and not attorneys... or by shitty attorneys.
This sub likes to shit on prenups a lot. They're never guaranteed and certainly shouldn't make you feel totally safe, but they're not useless, either. If you're going to get married, it's worth the $10-5k to hopefully avoid costs ten times that if it doesn't work out.
If your spouse makes significantly less then you and you file jointly, you may get a tax break; but then you also are supporting another person. So it's a net loss. Not to mention marrying a lower earning spouse puts most of the wealth you've aquired at risk, and puts you at risk for paying alimony.
This is something I hadn't properly considered before getting married, but if I ever find myself single again I won't even consider dating someone who isn't at least in the same ballpark as me, wage wise. I have a few friends and family members who are now paying their ex-wives to never get remarried, because they'll lose the steady paycheck if they do.
There is mostly a tax penalty for middle earners in the United States and the rest of the benefits you talk about can be contracted around very easily.
Marriage is a massive liability for student loans, especially for income based repayment.
This is going to sound shitty, but for me the level of enforced commitment has helped a lot... it's made me settle down (or grow up, or whatever you want to call it).
I've been in love with a couple women over my years, and a few of them would have made great partners, but I always ended up fucking it up. At some point in the relationship boredom would set in and I'd start to find myself more and more interested in something new.
Marriage absolutely destroyed that. Now if someone interesting comes along I have no desire to find out if they might be a better fit. We have a life, we own substantial things, we have an expectation of what tomorrow might bring, we have plans for the future, and I get to spend time with my kids every day.
Why would I fuck that up on slim chance of something only marginally better?
I recognize that many (perhaps most?) people can get to that level of commitment w/o needing the external pressure. I'm just outlining my own faults.
in most places once you live together for around 6 months you're common law
I suggest you do some reading. Cohabitation alone typically doesn't establish common-law marriage; you need to have evidence that you plan on marriage (e.g. engaged, or call each other "husband" / "wife"), and your 6-month time frame is pretty much wrong.
Additionally, a majority of states do not recognize common-law marriage.
I'm not. I think alimony makes sense (in both directions) in cases where, for instance, one partner has given up a career to raise the kids, so their earnings potential is now substantially less than it was pre-marriage.
However, I think it should be capped to "long enough that a reasonable person should be able to get back on their feet."
You made a absolute statement (won't) with zero supporting evidence other than your feelings on the matter. A single antedote is enough to refute your statement. Don't frame your arguments in hyperbolic absolutes if you don't want to lose arguments.
I mean, you're kind of being an asshole about it, but you're not wrong.
My wife has a Master's degree and two Bachelor's... all in interesting topics, but utterly useless, economically. We frequently have great conversations where I learn things I can't imagine I'd have ever come across otherwise, but she sits on her ass all day complaining about the 20 minutes of laundry she had to do while I, a dropout, work 50+ hour weeks to allow her to stay at home.
Complimentary compromises have already been made by both sides.
Well, no.
Both sides sacrificed more-or-less equally for the duration of the agreement ("own" money available to spend on self), but Spouse A was left with a decreased earnings potential afterwards which means they're left with less future money as well.
Yeah, it is a sacrifice. You are sacrificing your career.
And whose choice was that? Adults should have to live with the consequences of their decisions, and not offload the results of their poor judgement onto others. If the stay at home parent wants to be paid if things don't work out; then both parties can write that into an enforceable contract before they get married. If they can't come to an agreement, then they can call off the wedding.
Really? So marriage spouse A works their ass off so that spouse B can finish their law degree. Spouse B gets a high paying job and dumps spouse A. You don't think spouse A deserves some sort of compensation because they sacrificed a chance at an education for spouse B?
None of this is true in the United States, bro. Very few state (like 6 very underpopulated states)know recognizeaw marriage, and those that have abolished it going forward.
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That's only partially correct. Prenups can protect assets post-marriage pretty easily, but what you're thinking of is when one person becomes super successful. This isn't the case for middle / upper-middle class marriages. This is only the case when you unexpectedly make it rich.
To some extent, you can predict this. Currently, if my father dies, I will be inheriting over $7m worth of assets. By outlining that in our prenup, it prevents the courts from throwing out the agreement based on that alone. People also often do this with stock options with non-public companies.
Severability clauses typically mean the entire agreement rarely is thrown out, but this is known to happen. Usually, it's because the prenup is drafted by the people themselves and not attorneys... or by shitty attorneys.
This sub likes to shit on prenups a lot. They're never guaranteed and certainly shouldn't make you feel totally safe, but they're not useless, either. If you're going to get married, it's worth the $10-5k to hopefully avoid costs ten times that if it doesn't work out.
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It's all wrong, see his edit.
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This is something I hadn't properly considered before getting married, but if I ever find myself single again I won't even consider dating someone who isn't at least in the same ballpark as me, wage wise. I have a few friends and family members who are now paying their ex-wives to never get remarried, because they'll lose the steady paycheck if they do.
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There is mostly a tax penalty for middle earners in the United States and the rest of the benefits you talk about can be contracted around very easily.
Marriage is a massive liability for student loans, especially for income based repayment.
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Common law marriage is nearly non existent in the United states
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What's so beautiful about marriage? What benefits do you get on a day to day basis that you can't get with a live in boyfriend or girlfriend?
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This is going to sound shitty, but for me the level of enforced commitment has helped a lot... it's made me settle down (or grow up, or whatever you want to call it).
I've been in love with a couple women over my years, and a few of them would have made great partners, but I always ended up fucking it up. At some point in the relationship boredom would set in and I'd start to find myself more and more interested in something new.
Marriage absolutely destroyed that. Now if someone interesting comes along I have no desire to find out if they might be a better fit. We have a life, we own substantial things, we have an expectation of what tomorrow might bring, we have plans for the future, and I get to spend time with my kids every day.
Why would I fuck that up on slim chance of something only marginally better?
I recognize that many (perhaps most?) people can get to that level of commitment w/o needing the external pressure. I'm just outlining my own faults.
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I suggest you do some reading. Cohabitation alone typically doesn't establish common-law marriage; you need to have evidence that you plan on marriage (e.g. engaged, or call each other "husband" / "wife"), and your 6-month time frame is pretty much wrong.
Additionally, a majority of states do not recognize common-law marriage.
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I'm not. I think alimony makes sense (in both directions) in cases where, for instance, one partner has given up a career to raise the kids, so their earnings potential is now substantially less than it was pre-marriage.
However, I think it should be capped to "long enough that a reasonable person should be able to get back on their feet."
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You made a absolute statement (won't) with zero supporting evidence other than your feelings on the matter. A single antedote is enough to refute your statement. Don't frame your arguments in hyperbolic absolutes if you don't want to lose arguments.
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I mean, you're kind of being an asshole about it, but you're not wrong.
My wife has a Master's degree and two Bachelor's... all in interesting topics, but utterly useless, economically. We frequently have great conversations where I learn things I can't imagine I'd have ever come across otherwise, but she sits on her ass all day complaining about the 20 minutes of laundry she had to do while I, a dropout, work 50+ hour weeks to allow her to stay at home.
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[–]RonTomJohnson 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 10 points11 points12 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]this_is_my_new_acct1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Well, no.
Both sides sacrificed more-or-less equally for the duration of the agreement ("own" money available to spend on self), but Spouse A was left with a decreased earnings potential afterwards which means they're left with less future money as well.
[–]BlockNotDo 20 points21 points22 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]RoninPup 7 points8 points9 points (21 children) | Copy Link
[–]DRU-ZOD1980 20 points21 points22 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Bank_Gothic 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DRU-ZOD1980 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Houdiniman111 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Facecheck 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]vicious_armbar1 points [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
And whose choice was that? Adults should have to live with the consequences of their decisions, and not offload the results of their poor judgement onto others. If the stay at home parent wants to be paid if things don't work out; then both parties can write that into an enforceable contract before they get married. If they can't come to an agreement, then they can call off the wedding.
[–]rogue780 2 points3 points4 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[+]vicious_armbar1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
She must have had a cake job then! Because I've parented my son at home all day long, and it was way easier and less stressful then my accounting job.
[–]rogue780 -1 points0 points1 point (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]rogue780 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]craigske 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SurturOfMuspelheim 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BlockNotDo -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 -1 points0 points1 point (6 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Garek 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NSawsome 32 points33 points34 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]livin4donuts 23 points24 points25 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CaptainRandus 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 21 points22 points23 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]P10_WRC 14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]vicious_armbar 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RoundSilverButtons 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rolten 14 points15 points16 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rolten -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]gaedikus 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rogue780 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]rick74751 points [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link
Really? So marriage spouse A works their ass off so that spouse B can finish their law degree. Spouse B gets a high paying job and dumps spouse A. You don't think spouse A deserves some sort of compensation because they sacrificed a chance at an education for spouse B?
[–]bufedad 10 points11 points12 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chazmer87 0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]bufedad -4 points-3 points-2 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]paradigmx 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chazmer87 1 point2 points3 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chazmer87 -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DRU-ZOD1980 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chazmer87 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]DRU-ZOD1980 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Chazmer87 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Mayocide_Now 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]PM_Me_TheBooty -6 points-5 points-4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SpicyJim 24 points25 points26 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]zombi-roboto 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DrunkonIce 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]DrunkonIce 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DrunkonIce 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]miroku000 88 points89 points90 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]The__Tren__Train 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Istalriblaka 16 points17 points18 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]witebred112 10 points11 points12 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]cooldude866 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thefilthyhermit 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NibblyPig 14 points15 points16 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]maybethrowed 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]anticultured 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mythandros 15 points16 points17 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThrowawayGhostGuy1 14 points15 points16 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]livin4donuts 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Nickk_Jones 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dalphus1 48 points49 points50 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]napes22 17 points18 points19 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Birdy58033 10 points11 points12 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Miiich 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Birdy58033 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Miiich 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fengpi 26 points27 points28 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]bobbygiovani 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]neveragoodtime 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SpeaksTruthToPower 24 points25 points26 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]justTasha23 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]viper12a1a1 points [recovered] (31 children) | Copy Link
Every day that goes by convinces me that I am all for being in a long term relationship, but officially getting married by law is a no no.
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points (27 children) | Copy Link
[–]viper12a1a 5 points6 points7 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[+]tieltiel1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
None of this is true in the United States, bro. Very few state (like 6 very underpopulated states)know recognizeaw marriage, and those that have abolished it going forward.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]The__Tren__Train 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]yurimodin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro -1 points0 points1 point (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]SunosUnix 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 0 points1 point2 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro -4 points-3 points-2 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 3 points4 points5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro -2 points-1 points0 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]tieltiel1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Doesn't have common law marriage.
[–]voteferpedro 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]voteferpedro 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Haze04 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ash_park 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bufedad 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RonTomJohnson 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points (32 children) | Copy Link
[–]elenes 15 points16 points17 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]scyth3s 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]elenes 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]elenes 10 points11 points12 points (18 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan -2 points-1 points0 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeaChan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rufert 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]winkers 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dublbagn 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]McFeely_Smackup 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Hirudin 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ASAP_LIK 4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]BullsLawDan -8 points-7 points-6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]RonTomJohnson 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SubjectDeltaIA 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]BullsLawDan -8 points-7 points-6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RonTomJohnson 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]This_is_my_phone_tho 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Santaball -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]BullsLawDan 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]montrev 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 12 points13 points14 points (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]miredroditku 9 points10 points11 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bufedad 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]BCeagle2008 -14 points-13 points-12 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 3 points4 points5 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[+]BCeagle2008 -16 points-15 points-14 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 4 points5 points6 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+]BCeagle2008 -12 points-11 points-10 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RonTomJohnson 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]pacmatt27 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BCeagle2008 -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]RonTomJohnson 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]BCeagle2008 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Collective82 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]hivemind_disruptor 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jrackow 14 points15 points16 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]prettycuriousastowhy 20 points21 points22 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vektor0 5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]bufedad 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MotherFuckin-Oedipus 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Drezzzire 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NayMarine 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheCandyGuy 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaftPunkisPlayinAtmh 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wwwhistler 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Commies 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]EricAllonde[S] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Commies 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]xpercipio 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lexpython 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]GregoryGoose 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sellinnothin 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]neveragoodtime 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jaheiner 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kjvlv 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Slooth849 -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link