women who have never been married and are childless earn 117% of their childless male counterparts.

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Probably far worse. Look at academia, now vastly over-represented by women at all fields except engineering. But even in engineering, women have a much higher chance per-application to be accepted for a prestigious school or PhD track leading to higher paying jobs.

Look at big tech companies, when you compare the average person in school studying computer science or software engineering with the people they are offering internship and full-time positions, there is a huge disconnect. The bar for a man is much higher at every level.

Then I'm not even talking about scholarships, angel investments, awards, etc. of which a huge chunk are now women or "minority" only. Men from low income background have severe problems with socio-economic mobility because there are almost no places for help or support.

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Yea just dig your head in the sand and ignore there is no difference when looking at job vs job. Now if you want to argue that overall women get paid less as a whole for a few reasons, then we can agree: Women work less hours, i believe the average is around 30 hours. Women work less dangerous and demanding jobs women voluntarily go for less paying jobs since that is what THEY WANT Women are not as represented in top jobs because those require 60-80 hour a week and only men kill themselves for those.

In Scandinavian countries, where equality is law via welfare, via women flocked over 95% to "women job" voluntarily after they started the plan to allow everyone to do whatever they want through welfare. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/scandinavian-gender-equality-myth-us-more-female-managers/

Women are smarter in 1 way, they value family over work. Ain't no job going to visit you in the hospital when you are old. You aren't going to remember that time at work when John brought in a cake, but you will remember your kids when they were young.

Women fall for this and are suffering and no-one is happy, men or women now, but that is the goal of the left, everyone equally miserable.

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That's been a long standing theory, but there's newer research that debunks that.

It's likely that men just have more pressure in life to work harder and make sacrifices to earn more money. (While women are allowed to sit back, enjoy themselves, and eventually use these men as a substitute for having real careers themselves).

Men are judged by their ability to earn money. Especially in a romantic context by women. In fact, your earnings capability is the single best predictor for whether or not you'll get married. Having a reduction in income is likewise the best predictor for divorce.

There's also a really good study showing that women with children earn just as much as married women without children. They aren't "punished" in terms of earnings by taking time off to raise a child. Instead, when they come back to work, they end up on a similar trajectory as childless women.

What the research did find was that married men on average earn twice what everyone else does (including single men). Indicating that high earning men are "chosen" by women for marriage. Which then causes the wage gap.

Meanwhile single men on average do not statistically earn more than single women.

Which means the wage gap shouldn't be thought of in terms of men vs women but should instead be seen as married men earning more than everyone else (literally by a factor of 200%).

See:

https://qz.com/1508500/the-gender-wage-gap-is-between-married-men-and-everyone-else/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dxaimc/the_wage_gap_is_created_by_women_and_reflects/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/gjtj10/most_people_regardless_of_gender_prefer_to_stay/

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Well I'm a communist and we communists invented that word "capitalism" to insult it. But even I don't think capitalism means one person works and the other person gets to spend the money. But I get you're referring to capitalist exploitation, which of course is very close to slavery but one of the differences is that the "owner" in the case of slavery has an incentive to keep the slave alive whereas in capitalism they don't. So I think the case under discussion is closer to the slave case.

But that was a good one I agree.

But only because I know that capitalism and slavery are pretty similar. Were you thinking you were talking to a capitalist supporter? But if I had been then I wouldn't have accepted the idea that capitalist exploitation exists. Well whatever.

OK so you're saying the wife is like the capitalist who exploits the worker of nearly all of their earnings. I got to say I am fairly OK with that description. I just don't think economists would be.

[–]Despexco1 points 1 year ago [recovered] (30 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t just spend the money men earn automatically. Nothing gives a woman that right. If a man chooses to give her that money in exchange for having a stay at home maid, than that’s his choice. Paying someone to live in your house, sleep with you, raise your children, clean up after you, ect is not slavery.
Most women these days earn their own money and spend their own money. If a woman is contributing to the household income, of fucking course she spends some of the household money.
Even if being married gave women the right to steal a man’s money and give him zero benefits, marriage is still voluntary. You know what isn’t voluntary? Slavery.

You know what would be slavery? Men not having the right to work outside the home, own property, or have a bank account without a woman’s permission. Men not being allowed to vote. Men being sold by their mothers to their wives in exchange for property with the expectation that the man never defy his wife, lest he be abused. But for some reason, I don’t remember that shit happening to men, only to women. Hmm…

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (29 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t just spend the money men earn

Feminists claim they do.

Nothing gives a woman that right

Child support, alimony, taxes paid by men for female benefits....

Most women these days earn their own money

That's not true. Until recently most women in the USA did no paid work of any kind.

of fucking course she spends some of the household money

Not "some" almost all.

marriage is still voluntary

Child support, taxes.

Oh look the feminist parroted some feminist bullshit. Gosh how can I respond?

Men not having the right to work outside the home

This has never been true of women either despite feminist lies.

own property

Same.

or have a bank account

Same.

Men not being allowed to vote

Same.

Men being sold by their mothers to their wives

Same.

Every point you make is a lie. When every argument is a lie it doesn't prove your case, it just proves you're a bigot. Keep talking. Keep showing how much you hate men and are part of a hate movement.

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Plus, no one is forcing you to get married or have children, dumbass. The court isn’t pulling random men off the street and forcing them to pay child support for kids that aren’t theirs.

Plus, child support is for your fucking child. It’s used to buy your child clothes and food.

In most marriages, the household income is divided by both parties. That means that both adults in the relationship get some personal spending money. Yes, in old traditional relationships, the woman spent most of the money, but that’s because she was responsible for buying food and supplies for the kids. And yes, I suppose you’re right, necessities like groceries and child care do usually take up most of the household budget.

And I love how you think saying that for most of history women did no paid work helps your case that men are literally slaves. You do realize that cleaning your house and raising your babies was work right? And women did not get paid for their labor, while men did. Hmm… one of those things sounds a lot more like slavery to me.

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

no one is forcing you to get married or have children

Correction: nobody is forcing YOU. Because the law says you're a woman therefore you have the right to abortion. Men who get raped by women by law, have to pay those women child support or the raped victim (typically a boy) goes to prison.

The court isn’t pulling random men off the street and forcing them to pay child support for kids that aren’t theirs.

I mean depends what you mean by random but surely you know that in court proving you are not the father of a kid means NOTHING to them and you'll be forced to pay CS still? You MUST know that right? have you just never heard this because you're a lesbian so you won't have the chance to hook a man that way?

In most marriages, the household income is divided by both parties

Prove it.

https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/blog/finance/women-spending-habits.html

that’s because she was responsible for buying food and supplies

Like the way the US President has no power because all they do is make decisions about how to do stuff?

I love how you think saying that for most of history women did no paid work helps your case that men are literally slaves

I didn't say that. Motte and Bailey.

And women did not get paid for their labor, while men did. Hmm… one of those things sounds a lot more like slavery to me.

They didn't do labor that they didn't get paid for. They never worked for anyone. You're now saying doing stuff for yourself and your own family is "slavery" if women do it. Woman washes her own teeth? Slavery. Woman dresses herself? Slavery. Woman fixes herself breakfast? Slavery. I don't think you know what "slavery" means.

[–]Despexco1 points 1 year ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

For your last point, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m not saying “woman brushes her own teeth, slavery”, I’m saying “woman cooks man dinner, spends all day raising children, doesn’t get paid for a full days work, pretty exploitative, closer to slavery than men who work and at least get paid something”.

Also, I support the idea of paper abortions for men to opt out of parenthood at the beginning, no questions asked. And I think the fact that male rape victims are forced to pay child support is appalling. The way I view a man who complains about paying child support for his three kids after divorcing his wife, is very very different than the way I view men who don’t have a choice in becoming parents. Parenthood should never be forced on anyone, but once you’ve accepted the responsibility, you must continue. In my haste to respond, I didn’t consider the cases where parenthood is not a choice.

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[–]lzzbian94 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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No.1 how are you so sure i'm a lady? Second of all my point is that MRA's be not believing in pay gap(which is fair cuz i don't) but then would craddle men if they earn less a dollar. And "SAME JOB at SAME PROFICIENCY" what made you sure that in SOME aspects of a certain career men and women are the same in efficiency? Not to mention based on gender ALONE the gap is 5% so based on that no matter how efficient women are always gonna be paid less.

My "argument" which is more of an insight on how marriage dynamics may cause or contribute to this. Young women being single increases their chances of career success whilst it's the opposite for men. And now here we are in a soviety where women don't wanna get married anymore and that has an affect on men.

I may be wrong about my "marriage dynamic theory" but that is what i am wondering? And currently investing my mind on.

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I think this is a separate topic about dahingehend preferences.

The point the author is doing is that the primary caretaker of children earns less than the carrier oriented individual regardless of gender. Besides, career oriented women receive more than men who have similar careers' decisions.

I know the author wrote a book on the topic, but I don't know exactly how he explains the situation

My guess is that the push and public pressure for more women in well pay careers make them even more scarce on the market in technical professions (which are scalable).

Women traditionally don't choose technical professionals at the same proportions men do. The more choices they have, the less women opt for STEM professions. So companies and institutions have to pay a premium if they want to fill the quotas and satisfy the public pressure

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