Anecdotal evidences of the state of men's mental health right now. Please add your own. Discuss.

DoinIt989 · 2023-02-05T19:58:23+00:00

Insane people are attracted to the internet like a moth to a flame. Certainly in an "online community", a solid majority of the people who are power-users, or who you get to know as a friend, as fucking nuts. That's why they have to go online to meet friends!

Your list of friends is like what used to be popular on the internet - a listicle article of "the 10 guys you meet in every Discord server" l. You got the divorced Dads, the young schizos, the alcoholics on disability, the get-rich-quick schemers, the obese basement dwellers prone to rage. It's like a gallery of archetypes I've seen dozens of times in my years of posting.

I understand this is an anecdotal thread, but your sample pool is so far away from normal that I wouldn't read much into it.

AidsVictim · 2023-02-05T18:58:21+00:00

I'm not sure what is supposed to be debated here - yes most younger men are not very psychologically (or physically for that matter) healthy. Neither are young women. A hyper individualistic, atomized, post industrial society produces people who are socially and mentally malformed at very high rates.

There isn't any real debate that men and women are far less healthy than their ancestors, the only real debate is what to do about it.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-02-05T18:06:02+00:00

All you need to know about the only masculinity that is rewarded in this country is here:

https://youtu.be/w7OVmuc7hRw

Before anyone disagrees, a common flavor of this type of masculinity that is modern is the "be vulnerable but only under x conditions....which mainly involve not overtly expressing the emotions you feel."

Hot_Scale_6383 · 2023-02-05T20:57:48+00:00

my anecdotal experience of mens mnetsl health: i see a lot of ‘gym bros’ walking around in the city all alone looking sad and wearing a jumper. this is a state of mass singlehood. im sure you guys know what im talking about.

NockerJoe · 2023-02-05T17:57:02+00:00

I think the thing about women being "unreasonably scared of men" is that women are way more likley to be diagnosed wjth depression and/or anxiety and a lot of the women who post about it clearly have other stuff going on that may or may not be mentioned by them. In the last few years for obvious reasons these disorders have had a double digit increase in prevalence among the general population too.

If its a out basic safety precautions like letting a friend know where you are or not leaving your drink unattended thats a valid thing to do and will make you actually safer. But theres a certain point where you can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into and if someone sees every stranger as a physical threat, or feels threatened by the people they willingly choose to spend time with, they clearly have more to work on than "will this person hurt me". A lot of the discourse on dating women in the last 5ish years seems less and less about romance and more about just managing someone elses symotoms.

I've known a fair few men with their own hangups too, and that group does sound pretty toxic given theres substance abuse, bullying, and general toxicity all over the place. But dating wouldn't really solve those problems either. Getting mad at the world or refusing to get along with your social circle is kind of bad in general, as is bullying a guy with much more obvious issues.

DryOutcome3407 · 2023-02-05T18:53:07+00:00

Why anecdotes when you can have suicide rates?

Swordfromthecement · 2023-02-06T03:24:17+00:00

I’ll use myself as an anecdote. I’ve been diagnosed with Anxiety and Dysthymia but I’m sure I have other undiagnosed issues.

My self-esteem and self-worth are so fragile. I put a lot of myself into people and I hate that. There’s no nuance with me, I either love people and I latch myself onto that, or I hate them and I just have this need to get even with someone or put them in their place or exercise my perceived superiority over them. It’s awful and it only takes a simple remark to start this aggressive feedback loop in my brain that I have to actively fight against. I really hate it.

I’ve really been isolating myself from former friends, work colleagues and the like cause I just don’t want to have an inappropriate outburst. In addition I have pretty bad anxiety which keeps me from engaging with new people very often. I’m always worried about things going the wrong way.

Now to the state of men’s mental health.

Social anxiety is at an all time high and depression is creeping right behind. So many men just go to work and go home and veg out on the TV. There’s a lot of men that have very few friends, very few dating opportunities, very few economic opportunities, and yet are expected to succeed widely on all fronts at all times ironically enough; and admitting that you’re struggling makes you out to be an object of ridicule.

It’s the feeling of constant pressure to perform , aware of the shame if they don’t, and men can crack under that feeling. They then retreat further into isolation becoming more at risk of depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts. The internet becomes a substitute for socialization and porn for physical intimacy. The internet is lovely but it’s not a substitute for social interaction, and it can become an echo chamber for maladaptive thinking and behaviors. Same goes for porn in regards to physical intimacy.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-02-05T17:57:34+00:00

I volunteer regularly for an anonymous support, listening and information service. We get about as many male callers as female. Their problems have similar levels of depth and seriousness. Many, probably disproportionately so, are the shy, withdrawn type that I'd group your online friends with, although of course there are a lot who aren't or where there isn't enough information to tell. There are a lot of hidden problems and they usually haven't told anyone outside the service, and the state of things in general is shocking. However, I can't say that it's any more shocking for men or for women. (Edit: one of the users below blocked me, but I think he could benefit from someone at least sharing reddit cares resources with him from what I can see from his comment.)

Specialist-Action-33 · 2023-02-05T21:23:55+00:00

Me suffering from such mental health issues, its important that you are aware of them to begin with. Sadly a lot of men don't want to admit it because it makes them look weak and fear of being gaslit by others instead of leading them to the right resources. I suffer from BPD stemming from how I grew up and what I went through. It took a very long time to get ahold of myself, which was about a few years ago. Do I still get mad at small things out of fear that I may have been seen as a lesser person compared to others? Definately. A lot of men who do shit like rage quit and snap on other is out of the anger that have towards themselves. I been there at one point, questioning why I couldn't be as good as those guys in school who had women around them 24/7 when the only time my phone told me I had a notification was from my mom. Being lonely to the point I wanted to unalive myself because I wasn't happy with myself. I will say that once you begin to have friends who are in a desired social circle then things will get better, which also happened to me late in life. Now that I'm 37, I continuously look back at many opportunities that I realized I missed and try to make up for them such as career, social life, women (for all you ppl here with the gotcha question "bUt aReN't yOu mArRiEd?" like no shit I am, thank you for the reminder) I feel that I really pulled myself out of a dark place. Some things I do/condone is morally wrong, I got it. At the same time I can't just go travel back in time to the mid 00's and make better choices now that I know better nearly 20 years later, so I just have to work with what I have. The fact that BPD/OCD comes from a lot of things you missed out in life but felt you deserve. Some people such as myself find it hard to let things go and find peace until you dish revenge on ppl who did you wrong some 20 years ago. I know telling some girl from high school who dm me to "fuck off" and call her fat is wrong but I still do it because she called me a weirdo in the 10th grade (gee, I wonder what makes me so attractive now or did you just fall tf off?). Do I need therapy? Yes, I've been in it for a while, but no amount of therapy will heal the unseen scars. It just puts a bandaid on them.

^Even ^though ^I ^been ^honest ^here ^I'm ^sure ^the ^PPD ^downvote ^trolls ^are ^gonna ^hit ^this ^one ^hard. ^If ^it ^makes ^you ^sleep ^better ^at ^night ^knock ^yourselves ^out ^with ^that ^button.

despisedlove2 · 2023-02-05T19:14:09+00:00

I volunteer on men's self help forums and sometimes on crisis lines.

The first thing you see is that most men don't call, they prefer to write online since it is easier to keep emotions in check that way.

Second, you learn to recognize certain tells. A man who is planning a suicide will usually sound like he is checking up on things, kind of saying goodbye, before he proceeds.

Third, having lost a couple of friends to post divorce suicide, I end up realizing how lonely they really were. Usually, even their kids don't show up for the funeral, being too young to come in on their own.

What breaks men is usually the lack of being able to be with their kids often but those are standard tactics used by their exes. In most cases, women take the children even before going for the money.

Another tell is that a man who is headed to a suicide will often not be angry towards his ex wife. He will even make excuses for her behavior. When I read an angry man's words, I am often relieved since suicide is rare among them.

crookedsummer2019 · 2023-02-05T18:48:46+00:00

I’m not a gamer and have zero experience with online games, but I reckon that gaming, for some (not all) people is a way to cope with whatever shit life handed them.

Unlike professional therapy, it’s ‘free therapy’ and there’s no mental health stigma attached to it. I can see how it would attract people who don’t have healthy ways of coping and don’t have (or are unwilling) to accept help for fear of stigma.

Men need their own mental health services that are just for men, and I’m saying that as a female who works in mental health. There’s so many women’s only groups for this and that and only a fraction for men. Men are much more likely to be socially isolated when they get older. One of my clients, a man in his 60s, told me that it had been over two months since he talked to someone. I mean literally shared words in any context with another person. I wanted to cry.

One of my colleagues runs a men’s addiction support group and I was invited to attend a session with them (with their consent first). It was amazing to see a group of men of varying ages and backgrounds be supportive to each other, with no judgment.

Men helping men in a positive uplifting way. There’s nothing weak about that and it’s not gynocentric.

We need more of that and less of men being called pussies for showing any emotion other than anger.

The link someone shared above, a clip from The Boys (awesome show, filmed in my city fyi) is a prime example of what not to do. That character, Soldier Boy, shames the other character for his emotions, but Soldier Boy is a slave to addiction and is internally a complete mess. That’s what happens when you bottle up stuff. Our bodies can’t hold onto it, so it comes out in some way like via addiction.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-02-05T17:47:04+00:00

My thoughts are that mental health awareness for men has been a complete and utter failure, but for not for the reasons commonly accepted. We have tried to fit a square peg into a round hole while ignoring the fact that they were never going to be compatible in the first place.

Men do not experience emotion like women do. The breakdown below kind of illustrates this:

Men: instinct -> reason -> emotion Women: instinct -> emotion -> reason

One of the reasons I can accept the idea that we are in a more gynocentric society is because we are obsessed with the fact that men “don’t do emotion correctly” because we are basing it off of a woman’s paradigm.

Men tend to look at a problem, try to understand and solve it, then think about how it made them feel later (this is a natural state, but does not mean it can not be manipulated and changed by societal measures). This is why when we encourage men to be more emotional, you see the absolute worst versions of it (anger and frustration, which are unique to men).

However, if we don’t see those as innate things, then we can just blame men for not getting it.

The most emotionally healthy men I know do the following:

-workout -have some kind of passion that they can pour energy into and receive the innate reward of accomplishment -a group of guy friends they can rely on to break balls, confide in, and troubleshoot life problems

One of the main things I’ve seen is that male spaces like the last one are almost constantly been seen as toxic or need policing. Men just need to be left the hell alone sometimes to decompress.

I’m sure the acculturation of men through single mother homes, largely women dominated educational spaces, and a real lack of anywhere for a boy/young man to be taught this stuff doesn’t help other.

It’s why the saying “men are being raised as defective women” can even be resonated with.

BIG_PHARMA_SOLUTION_ · 2023-02-05T22:34:36+00:00

Inb4 middle-aged people or boomers come on here,

"Oh really? But everyone I know is doing just fine just like we did back in our age. This must just be bad data"

Or the classic, let's pull a study mostly compiled on data from the boomer generation and claim it is representative of today's youth population at a macro level.

daddysgotanew · 2023-02-05T19:57:57+00:00

Ask a cop. They’ll tell you how royally fucked society is these days. Even in small or relatively “crime free” rural areas. The fabric is starting to tear…

2023-02-06T08:53:28+00:00

I think boomers were raised by the first big government. Gen Xrs were the second accidental child. By the time millenials got around big gov was at ends meet and these were the most demanding.

I think men will be fine. They just need to leave the home, the city, the social structure they expect to take care of them and carve their own way in life. You can die, you can be forgotten within months of you death. That is rock bottom of life. But - if you look honestly at your life - that's not that bad - so why not go out and and rent a shack in exchange for doing some maintenance work? Grab yourself a few flash disks and upgrade windows for a living across small towns. Live, move, stop being entertained passively by the world.

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-02-06T15:27:48+00:00

Men suffer more violence at the hands of strangers. Mothers commit the most child abuse and lesbian relationships have more IPV than het relationships. And without paper abortions, men have awful reproductive rights.

I’m still a feminist and will die on a hill that women have it worse but I’m always ready for misandrist women to jump down my throat everytime I explain that godforbid men deal with things women don’t.

1Here4Bach · 2023-02-05T18:23:56+00:00

Saying it’s wrong for women to be scared of males is false. Most people have an instinctual fear of spiders. Will most species of spiders kill you? No. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that most people prefer to be cautious around them wether they’re harmful to humans or not. It doesn’t make those people wrong for feeling that way.

purginggastonist · 2023-02-05T23:52:51+00:00

go the gym, go nature, embrace suffering, develop stoicism, perform meditative activities, and develop introspection

modern therapy, yoga, and meditation is super feminized and useless to men. But male-centric versions do work but without the infrastructure existing for mens mental health you gotta do it yourself

for example, if you want to meditate don't go to a group yoga meditation session with some fruit in a man bun, go on a hike, chop some wood, hop into an ice bath, learn the meditative state, and do it yourself

instead of going crying your eyes in a strip mall office do some deep introspection and self-reflection to understand why you think the way you do, read some books to help you with that like the book of five rings, or king warrior magician lover

and finally fuck vulnerability, embrace stoicism, become impervious to pain and misery, read some stoic philosophy the whole "vulnerability is strength" is absolute bullshit

IntelligentAmoeba182 · 2023-02-05T20:54:10+00:00

I don’t think women are unreasonably scared of men, but I don’t think it’s fair to men either because not all men are murderers and rapists. It’s just that enough men are to induce reasonable fear. I also think that mental health issues aren’t really gendered, and a lot of the things you mentioned happen to men and women.

sweetestpineapple · 2023-02-05T18:39:36+00:00

Bad. People are increasingly lonely regardless of gender, but men seem to get less validation from acquaintances and other men, especially on social media. As a woman with an average amount of followers on FB and insta, there’s at least people hyping up stories of my pets or commenting on my stuff even if we wouldn’t hang out in person. For my partner and male friends, their social media interactions are limited to VERY close friends, if any, and maybe family. It seems like it’s easier for guys to feel completely alone and even be jealous of things like random creeps in your DMs because to them it’s at least some validation.

Even men in progressive circles like my own don’t seem to know how to express their feelings and will sweep everything not immediately life threatening under the rug indefinitely. Mental health awareness online almost never translates into real life unfortunately.

I don’t think it’s wrong for women to be cautious of men in general but who gets labeled a creep isn’t always based in fairness. Shyness, anxiety, neurodivergence etc can come off as creepy when that’s not the case. I’ve also noticed lots of privileged, mostly white women weaponize “fear” unfairly against MOC. It’s one of the main issues I have with the feminist movement even though I agree with most of the other stuff. I can see how this can make anxiety and depression a lot worse.

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EulenWatcher · 2023-02-05T20:26:55+00:00

I’m not sure it will be helpful to you, but I can’t share my mostly Russian sample here. I’m gonna talk about men I’m close enough and some ransoms I have a few interactions with:

A man in his 60s. Never been married, doesn’t have kids, lives with his elderly mother and sister who takes care of both of them. Has some health issues. Mentally stable, helpful to his family and friends, but can’t do anything under stress and when his mother got sick required help of his younger sisters to take care of her. Somewhat unpleasant character, but everyone close to him is used to his constant picking on them.
A man in his 30s. Divorced, had a kid, lives with another woman. Stable, content and healthy. Has never had issues with dating, but didn’t vet his wife well and eventually got divorced due to incompatibility. Maybe somewhat infantile.
A man in his late 30s, returned from the war. Was content and happy with his life, now probably has PTSD and some physical traumas too. Married, has 2 kids, has happy marriage.
A man in his early 40s. Married, has 2 kids. Stable and content with his life. No issues besides some financial ones and the ones buggering the whole country rn.
A man in his early 40s, married. Has minor anger issues and gets angry if he loses. Competitive. Poor domestic skills.
A teenager, 17. From a full family, doesn’t seem to have mental issues. Somewhat lazy, but is good in topics he’s interested with, a but lonely at his home as parents aren’t good at keeping communication close and non-judgmental.
A man in his late 20s. Clinical depression and several other issues, abusive household. Things go really badly for him and it affects his character.

That’s probably 1/3 of men I know close enough. Things aren’t that bad, but I think it’s mostly due to my social circle. I’m rather picky about who I keep contact with. If you asked my mother who is a lawyer, you’d see a completely different picture full of divorced couples, shitty parents, neglected teens, rapists and others.

PonderingPeaches · 2023-02-06T02:16:45+00:00

I guess.. what about guys who are fine? Like the ones who don’t get laid often/for extended periods/ever, don’t have many friends, don’t do much.. And are fine? What makes the difference?

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2023-02-06T10:42:17+00:00

Myself and most of the men I see around me are doing just fine in terms of dating and career / finance. Tbh it’s only here that I see a lot of angry, bitter young guys who can’t seem to get laid, who are petty, out of shape video game-playing types with poor social skills and who write posts complaining about things like hypergamy and women having standards that are way too high.

But outside of Reddit things seem to be just fine for men. I get to travel and live in cool places like Rome, Tel Aviv and Amsterdam for my job and I’m meeting fun women along the way, both local and American expats. I’ve made good friends, relationships, FWBs, had plenty of fun / crazy adventures along the way, and most of the men I know IRL are living just the same.

bow_1101 · 2023-02-06T18:13:43+00:00

Bunch of grown men playing video games are losers, shocker.

wtknight · 2023-02-05T18:56:21+00:00

Most people have always been a mess. My grandparents had issues, some of which I only learned about as an adult. My great grandparents likely had issues, too. Both men and women having mental health problems isn't a new thing. It's probably been something that has existed throughout history.

DumpApe135 · 2023-02-05T20:51:40+00:00

If we're talking about actual friends I have two one is the same age as me the other is 27 and both seem to be doing well, one is in grad school and the other is in undergrad but works a lot for his major(construction management). Mental health wise besides being busy both seem to be doing fine. In regards to myself, I do fine since for me to be mentally happy as long as I'm physically healthy and able to do my hobbies such as working out I'm good not really happy but content.

YabaDabaDontTalkToMe · 2023-02-05T21:07:37+00:00

Your post almost directly validates society viewing the way women emote as the correct way. What defines “healthy”? Who defines it?

I used the word "healthy" a few times in my comment, but I’m guessing you’re referring to when I said "I feel like we need to teach men that they can express their emotions in healthy ways". Reading my post again "healthy" was the best way to phrase what I said, so sorry about that. By "healthy" I meant that we should teach young men other ways to express their emotions appropriately, without the use of violence/destruction, in a way that doesn’t physically harm themselves or others, without yelling and at/in an appropriate time/place. I also think we really need to focus on the alternative methods of expressing emotions rather than simply just saying "yeah don’t do that". And of course, girls should also be taught this, I’m just focusing on men, because women typically don’t express their emotions in anger (not all women tho, there are always outliers).

Additionally, anger being something that men skew towards is an evolutionary feature, not a bug. I didn’t think I’d have to highlight that but I guess I do.

I don’t think that I’ve said anything that imply that I believe "anger is a bug". Being mad/anger is a normal emotion that everyone has, what i'd consider a "bug" would be acting on that anger with violence. I’m sorry if I worded it in a way that made it seem like I’m against feeling angry. You can’t control what emotions you feel, but you can control how you react to that emotion. From an evolutionary standpoint I believe anger has both pros and cons. A pro would be quick thinking and "boosted" strength and a con would be the impulsive actions and recklessness that anger causes. However, we are no longer fighting bears or hunting wolves for our survival and this type of response is rarely needed. Yes, I understand that testosterone and other hormones may heighten anger levels in men, I still believe that men have complete control over their actions and should not respond the same way they would as if they are fighting a bear when they are playing video games. It is not an appropriate reaction nor is it beneficial to anyone. Just to preface: feeling anger = fine, acting violently or inappropriately because of that anger = bad.

(I have a more to say but I have to go do something, so I will continue this response later)

Safinated · 2023-02-05T22:15:04+00:00

All I will say is that we have more choices now, and so now bear more responsibility for them

atryhardrooster · 2023-02-05T22:38:29+00:00

This problem goes deeper then this subreddit is capable of decrypting. The infinite possibilities of the human mind make this equally obvious and complex. Obvious in the sense that of course there are a lot of men who are mentally unstable, it’s always been and always will be that way. Same with women. Complex because we have no way of knowingly solving this issue if we do not have an absolute controlled environment for every single human being that gets born. And even then, would we be able to control us? It seems almost entirely impossible to fix this problem. There are, of course, ways to reduce this problem. Such as creating a system where basic needs are met equally for all humans. Whether that’s through teaching people to raise their own food, free housing, or whatever you can think of. But you can never get rid of those “bad seeds.”Especially in such a massive population. Is this a spiritual problem? A psychological problem? A societal problem? Or is it all of the above and more? Who knows, It’s a problem with no good solutions that’s for sure. You can save 10000 men in your life time. Meanwhile, you missed the other few billion that are fucked up.

Hungry-Adagio2152 · 2023-02-05T23:57:28+00:00

My advice: you need to find a friends group not composed of fuckups, outcasts, miscreants, and the like.

While there are plenty of men out there who have mental health issues, there are also plenty who have their shit together and who don’t act like toddlers. Find them.

prizefighterstudent · 2023-02-06T03:34:54+00:00

As an interesting observation, I seldom meet a zoomer chick who doesn't have some form of mental illness past or present. Even ones in school. Some of the preppier Asian yuppie types are fine, but that might be suppression given their culture.

ChudBuck · 2023-02-06T22:18:20+00:00

Go outside, go anywhere with a lot of people really. You will see the proverbial stressed out and neurotic single mom with her fat son. I was that fat son, it should be labelled as child abuse. Didn't turn it around until I started wrestling in high school, but it should never be allowed to happen in the first place. Did a fucking number on me

Sade_061102 · 2023-02-06T23:30:21+00:00

No one shames mens mental health and emotions more than other men, and this is why most of mens mental health charities is almost made up completely of female volunteers

Professional_Mud_316 · 2023-02-09T02:09:46+00:00

Even in this day and age, there remains much platitudinous lip-service when it comes to proactive mental illness prevention as well as treatment.

Various mainstream news and social media will state the obvious, that society must open up its collective minds and common dialogue when it comes to far more progressively addressing the challenge of more fruitfully treating and preventing such illness in general.

But they will typically fail to address the problem of ill men, or even boys, refusing to open up and/or ask for help due to their fear of being perceived by peers, etcetera, as weak/non-masculine.

The social ramifications exist all around us; indeed, it is endured, however silently, by males of/with whom we are aware/familiar or to whom so many of us are closely related.

Albeit perhaps a subconscious one, a mentality persists: Men can take care of themselves, and boys are basically little men.

It could be the same mindset that might help explain why the book Childhood Disrupted: How Your Biography Becomes Your Biology, and How You Can Heal only included one male among its six interviewed adult subjects, there presumably being such a small pool of ACE-traumatized men willing to formally tell his own story of childhood abuse.

It might be yet more evidence of a continuing subtle societal take-it-like-a-man mentality, one in which so many men will choose to abstain from ‘complaining’ about their torturous youth, as that is what ‘real men’ do.

Title	Anecdotal evidences of the state of men's mental health right now. Please add your own. Discuss.
Author	No_Reflection_798
Upvotes	49
Comments	207
Date	February 5, 2023 5:34 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10ui5w6/anecdotal_evidences_of_the_state_of_mens_mental/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/anecdotal-evidences-of-the-state-of-mens-mental.1151855 https://theredarchive.com/post/1151855