Are men willing to be homemakers?

hyperrreal · 2014-12-17T17:14:00+00:00

How willing are RP men to be the primary homemaker and childrearer for their breadwinning wife?

I would never do this. Not only do I hate it, but I'm also terrible at it. For me homemaking=disaster.

How willing are they to take the supportive role if or when their female SO makes substantially more than him and contributes the most to their preferable lifestyle? How willing are they to have dinner on the stove by 6 PM for their wife who makes most of the money and pays the lion share of the bills?

Again, I just don't enjoy this role, so a relationship where I would be expected to support a female breadwinner would not be harmonious. Also since I come from family wealth it's highly unlikely my partner will bring more financial resources to the table.

But I think you're right that both partners need to pull their weight in a relationship. So if you expect to be taken care of financially, you better be pulling your weight at home, regardless of your gender.

My guess would be that men in this position need to be extra hot to maintain attraction from their wife. Fit, charming, well dressed, and in general someone who gets attention from the opposite sex easily.

cancerific · 2014-12-17T15:57:32+00:00

I personally love the idea of being a stay at home dad. The problem is how will you be received. Women are more likely to cheat if they are the primary breadwinner, more likely to divorce. I can love being a home maker, but if everyday my wife comes home and is resentful towards me for being a 'bitch' than it isn't going to work.

wazzup987 · 2014-12-17T20:43:21+00:00

NOt red pill but i would

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2014-12-17T21:19:01+00:00

A lot of RP men idealize the day to day lifestyle of a home maker. The idea being that keeping a home clean and cooking meals for everyone would maybe take 4 hours per day or less. You also get to listen to whatever music you want, dress however comfortably you want, can take naps whenever you want, etc. The role admittedly gets a lot harder when children are involved.

The reason that RP men will ultimately say that they don't want to job is due to fears of female hypergamy. Being a home maker is inherently a service oriented role, and that inevitably influences the perceptions people have of it. No one particularly respects a professional house cleaner unless they otherwise are admirable in some way.

There is one example of a married couple like this that I know of. The wife is a high powered finance businesswomen, and he stays at home. It works because he attained the highest rank possible in a traditional martial arts system and built a dojo on his property. While staying at home, he's also training people (and himself) how to become human weapons. He'll take a week off here or there to travel the world to train with masters and give seminars. In this sense, he has managed to be admirable enough to warrant the appropriate amount of respect from a dominant masculine perspective in spite of the fact that otherwise he is a domestic worker.

boscoist · 2014-12-17T20:44:02+00:00

sure why not. I've been variously cooking/cleaning/shopping etc for myself and/or either roommates/family since before I could drive. I actually like cooking for more than just myself. Oh and all that time coincides with playing sports, finishing HS and college (engineering) and now I find myself cooking for the girl I've started dating. it takes far less than 40hrs a week.

It would give me all the time I could possibly need to earn supplemental income (which is an arrangement I could make with my current job).

I could directly guide my children (if/when i get to that stage)

I could tinker and invest more in my hobbies.

I'd probably keep things a little more spartan than she would like, but if i'm the homemaker...

In practice though, no I wouldn't do this. The odds of finding a woman who wouldn't resent you in short order is astronomical at best.

GayLubeOil · 2014-12-18T00:35:04+00:00

Im so down to be a house husband. After years of bodybuilding food prep my cooking is on point. Id lift 2x a day and grill some food for the fam. Sounds chill as fuck.

give_me_shinies · 2014-12-18T03:51:25+00:00

The most popular responses boil down to women not respecting "bitchboys". There may be some truth to that but I'm not sure it's as inevitable as TRPers assume. My grandmother was a businesswoman who worked in imports and exports and travelled a lot. My grandfather was a SAHD after an injury and she absolutely adored him all their lives. They were adorable as fuck and had lots of babies.

RobotPartsCorp · 2014-12-17T20:46:20+00:00

Many men have already shown they are willing and capable of becoming homemakers. I know a few and they love it. I don't see why not, even when I personally don't see a value in it for me (I am a woman who enjoys her career and DINK lifestyle) but I still understand why a father or mother might choose that for their family.

soylentblueissmurfs · 2014-12-17T23:49:29+00:00

I had a friend who was basically a homemaker to his girlfriend in college, taking the majority of responsibility for their household since he only studied part time. She lost her interest in him and dumped him in the nastiest way possible without outright cheating on him (or at least without admitting to).

exit_sandman · 2014-12-17T16:01:08+00:00

I have already wondered about the same question (the last time after our latest exchange).

My take on it (regarding redpillers): At some earlier point in their lives - maybe, in some cases even very likely. After adopting red pill thought - most likely not.

GridReXX · 2014-12-17T20:10:52+00:00

It's not just about the work, it's about the quality of the output. In my experience women simply care more about home-centric stuff like decorating, how food is prepared and so on.

There's a reason sloppy bachelor pads are a guy thing: men generally just don't care as much about china patterns as women do.

So if a guy stays at home, he better bring his A-game in terms of meeting the woman's standards. Otherwise she'll start to resent him.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2014-12-17T22:58:31+00:00

I'd be down.

There are two main issues to this; social acceptability (some men might feel emasculated, many women don't want a "deadbeat") and economic reality (being able to afford one full time parent who didn't earn anything isn't a possibility for most people).

We can address the latter with higher wages, a better economy, rebuilding the middle class, more paid leave, etc.

The former, I don't know. That will just take time.

[deleted] · 2014-12-17T23:47:31+00:00

Damn right I would!

Bakerofpie · 2014-12-18T04:26:53+00:00

My husband doesn't have a RP alt, so I'll answer for him (sort of). I have been the primary breadwinner for most of our relationship, and am currently sole breadwinner. He is incredibly unhappy with the arrangement, which is actually a bit of a comfort to me since I hate it as well. Humans need to feel valuable and productive. Seeing a paycheck is what builds his value in his own eyes. Having a wife who isn't over-stressed and over-worked makes him feel more valuable. Somehow he cannot translate getting the laundry done and cleaning around the house into being valuable. In contrast, I don't really feel my paycheck and what I do at work add any sort of purpose or value to my life. I feel value based on how well I can serve those I love. Providing money for them feels pretty minimal and impersonal. So, it just depends on what makes an individual feel they are accomplishing something. Whether it's biological or culturally ingrained, men seem somewhat less likely to feel accomplished as stay at home fathers than women do as stay at home mothers.

nomdplume · 2014-12-18T05:29:45+00:00

I've been the primary "homemaker" now for a few years. I really don't like it. And there are a few reasons for it.

First of all, I kinda suck at it. I have ADD, so being alone with my head for long periods of time warps my reality, and the multi-tasking skills necessary to really effectively stay on top of everything are next to impossible for me.

On the other hand, I'm a far better shopper, provisioner, and cook than my wife, so that part works out (though my wife could probably be a much better cook if she had more time to practice).

I'm also far better at doing detailed cleaning (that ADD thing) than my wife is. It takes me four times longer, but when I clean something, it gets clean. Unfortunately, my "attention to detail" in cleaning means it's nearly impossible to keep the house clean overall. My wife is much better at accomplishing that.

I became the primary homemaker when I got laid-off from my management role in business operations for a large international corporation. I stayed the primary homemaker when my son was born, because A) the economy sucked, and white-collar work was almost non-existent, B) my wife still had a high-paying career, and C) I felt that my infant son would be best taken care of by one of his parents. I really felt uncomfortable with taking that on, but for my son I'm willing to do nearly anything.

I was uncomfortable because being a man, and being a "homemaker", is a role that garners no support from anyone. I would hear it all the time - SAHDs and "house husbands" are just too lazy to do actual work (nevermind that I have never worked so hard in my goddamned life - three years of sleep deprivation really took a toll on me).

I was embarrassed to say what I did when asked in a social situation. When a woman says "I'm a SAHM!", everyone celebrates that. "It's so great that you worked out doing that - every kid deserves to spend their early years with their mom, and not stuck in some daycare!"

When I say it, people would kinda say the same thing ("That's so great!"), but there would always be some question mark hanging in the air (especially from men) before the subject quickly changed.

I would take my son to all kinds of "mommy and me" groups (ugh, so emasculating) to get him out in the world, and I was never really one of the "parents" (who, in general, were all moms). Moms would think it was great that I was "taking my son for the day" (even though it was everyday), and they would always want to intervene to "help" me when my son needed anything, assuming, of course, that there was no way I would have any idea what I was doing. Either that, or they would look at me like I was a pervy uncle or something who "borrowed" his nephew to cruise for chicks. I've never felt so low.

More personally, my wife has never really liked the situation. She will insist that she is fine with it, but her actions/emotions say otherwise.

She is completely stressed out by her role as primary breadwinner. Previously, she changed jobs every couple of years and climbed the corporate ladder. If she didn't like her work, she could easily take a risk and try something new because she would always have a second source of income backing her up. With me at home, she was stuck, and she really doesn't like being stuck.

She also somewhat considers our house "her baby" (as many "nesting phase" women do), and so she really had trouble turning it over to me. I was never doing quite a sufficient job at being a "homemaker."

Additionally, I learned that being a SAHD is even harder than being a SAHM (IMO), because a SAHD is in charge of all the "mom" stuff (cleaning, cooking, laundry, groceries, shopping, etc.) AND all the "dad" stuff (yardwork, household repairs/remodeling, car maintenance, finances, bills, etc.). So it's not like the roles are truly switched.

More deeply, my wife definitely lost attraction for me. She completely appreciated all of the work I did, all of the sleep that I lost, and my committed, nurturing stewardship of our son, but she never really respected me for it. She wants to be with a man that she is proud of, and she just had a hard time being proud of me as a "house husband" (not really the feminine ideal when it comes to men women want to marry). Not to mention, it hard for a woman to have desire be present when they are stressed, anxious, and uncertain all the time. Our sex life started to decline the month I got laid off from my job, and the "dead bedroom" started the month she got pregnant.

And I can say with certainty that my experience is not unique. I know several SAHDs at this point, and none of them feel "respected" by their wives. None of their wives are really, truly happy with the situation. They are, like my wife, "just glad one of us is their to take care of the baby", but they all feel like they are missing out on one of the most important parts of their lives to go work.

So yeah, I don't know - I would probably like being a "homemaker" much more if A) it was considered a respectable role for a man, and B) women found it to be at all attractive. It still wouldn't really suit me as a life pursuit, but it also wouldn't be nearly as soul-crushing.

GridReXX · 2014-12-18T18:09:34+00:00

How willing are RP men to be the primary homemaker and childrearer for their breadwinning wife?

How willing are they to take the supportive role if or when their female SO makes substantially more than him and contributes the most to their preferable lifestyle?

How willing are they to have dinner on the stove by 6 PM for their wife who makes most of the money and pays the lion share of the bills?

Totally willing, if we lived in the kind of world where gender roles allowed this to be a realistic option. However, women are just as subtly sexist as men, and have subtly gender-roled expectations of their partners desirability. A man who gives up his ambition to do this is initially supported (because equality!) by his spouse, but eventually she starts to resent him no matter how good of a househusband she is.

It's like if a woman started not shaving her armpits, wore incredibly short hair, and only wore powersuits, and took up burping and cursing. Ostensibly, these things should not REALLY matter to a male spouse, but most men statistically would absolutely be less attracted to her whether they consciously wanted to be or not, and resentment would build, tanking the relationship.

Gender roles aren't intrinsic rules, but they remain pervasive enough, lying secretly under people's conscious expectations, that willingly subverting them is almost a guarantee of relationship failure and resentment.

I don't mind if my husband is the primary breadwinenr, thus making me a primary homemaker. I would be grateful to not have to worry about bills or groceries and I would express my gratitude by cooking dinner.

I respect your opinion of yourself, and maybe you are different, but every woman I've ever met says this, except every time I've seen it play out she acts smiley and supportive and sweet to him but secretly starts hating him, until eventually she's calling him from the hotel room where she's being assfucked by her biker gang boyfriend to let her husband know her work meeting went long and have the kids in bed by 9.

nomdplume · 2014-12-18T22:47:08+00:00

I forgot to add -

Once I became a SAHD, and started really paying attention, I noticed that I saw almost no SAHD, either in the media or IRL, identify as only a SAHD (as opposed to women, who would).

They would always identify themselves as "A ________ (insert part-time profession/hobby/self-employment gig/whatever) and stay-at-home-dad." But SAHD always gets second-billing. Always.

I think that really shows what's going on in their heads.

imaterriblelurker · 2014-12-19T15:17:46+00:00

For a while in my relationship I was the breadwinner. My SO was still working, but he was earning less than me and my paycheck allowed us to buy a new car and a new home.

We divided up the housework based on what we liked doing. I like to iron and I love to cook. He likes to organize the laundry and fix things in the home. We build furniture together and usually change tires or fix the car together as well. We are a team and come March, he will be starting a new job where he will be earning more than me.

I think RP has this image of partners being adversarial and hating being the "looser" in a relationship. In my relationship I would strive for my SO to be happy at all times and he would do the same for me. That doesn't mean you can't be traditional, hyper-masculine or even extremely equal in your relationship. It just means you have to find a person willing to accept you for your flaws and who compliments your personality traits.

I am sure my SO would be willing to be a homemaker, he might even prefer it. It just so happens that we live in a country where if we were to have a child he would also get paternity leave for at least 3 months at 100% pay. My workplace offers a paternity bonus for couples who take time off so men can enjoy a whopping 5 months of 100% pay where my company will subsidize my SO for lost pay if he stays at home with the child for an additional month.

We are lucky, and our country puts steps in place for us to be able to have a family and choose who stays at home.

TempestTcup · 2014-12-17T16:01:12+00:00

I have a different situation than the scenario in the post, but my husband is retired and I'm an accountant, so I am the main breadwinner until I also retire. I love my job though, and it pays a ton, so I hate to quit it. He makes a tidy sum on the stock market still, and it was through his work that we were able to amass nice retirement savings.

It's funny because he is really good at doing a lot of the domestic stuff, and he LOVES getting a bargain at the grocery store. I still do most of the cooking, mainly because I find it an excellent way to unwind after work, but usually i will come home and find all the ingredients for what he wants to eat waiting for me on the counter, which is nice.

My husband pretty much takes care of everything that needs to be done except most of the cooking, and it's nice for me because basically all I have to do is work and relax. He has talked about getting a fun part-time job, but doesn't really know where he'd find the time. Besides doing all of the domestic stuff, he is also constantly building stuff around the house and yard.

[deleted] · 2014-12-17T20:43:27+00:00

In a ideal world where a somehow non-hypergamous hot patent attorney woman exists, sure I'd be down to do dishes (lol, can't believe I typed that). The fact of the matter is this though, the vasty majority of attractive women are physically repulsed by a man they see as their lesser. This means a successful attractive woman is always going to be looking for someone more successful than herself, she isn't going to be happy with a stay at home dad, and she certainly isn't going to respect him. She'll probably end up cheating on or divorcing him, or both.

ECoast_Man · 2014-12-17T23:41:55+00:00

Plenty of men are willing?

It does not mean that if men are willing it is the correct choice?

DaThrowaway808 · 2014-12-18T00:09:52+00:00

Would an RP man extend this same courtesy to his "provider" wife?

If my life continues on this course, then I will be in this scenario. I will extend the same courtesy and hold her to the same expectations of what is necessary for the family unit. Plus, if shit hits the fan she'll be paying me alimony. Win-win in my view.

masterrod · 2014-12-18T04:46:52+00:00

I always hear RP men argue that women are naturally "hypergamous" and that even someone like Oprah is not happy being the "breadwinner" in her 20-year relationship with her beau Stedman.

Happy? A woman that has been raped and had tumultuous time with men is a terrible example. So I guess Oprah is not happy but Martha Stewart is?

I think there's some solace in knowing exactly where you fit in, but who's knows who's happy.

How willing are RP men to be the primary homemaker and childrearer for their breadwinning wife?

Unless the man was taught this from birth, I think this is pretty tough to do for men. A man must step up if the mother is not around.
This is kind of an unfair question.

How willing are they to take the supportive role if or when their female SO makes substantially more than him and contributes the most to their preferable lifestyle?

If you're in a relationship you must be supportive no matter what, so supportive role is part of it. If the lady makes more money, then I think men will deal with it, but there must be line between bending over and being man. Money aside, no man wants to have his manhood taken from just because his wife happens to make more money.

How willing are they to have dinner on the stove by 6 PM for their wife who makes most of the money and pays the lion share of the bills?

Depends if the man can cook ore not. I think compromise is compromise. I'd say what's the anti? I till if the anti is regular sex no matter what, most men will have no problem with this setup.

Would an RP man extend this same courtesy to his "provider" wife?

Depends on what skills and gift he has.

cxj · 2014-12-18T04:56:33+00:00

I wouldn't do it. No one including your wife will respect you. I know this works for a minority of couples but I highly doubt it will ever work for the majority.

dejour · 2014-12-18T05:45:42+00:00

I'd be quite happy about being a stay at home dad.

If it caused conflict or resentment though, it wouldn't be worth it.

wombatinaburrow · 2014-12-18T09:25:01+00:00

My husband was the primary caretaker of our eldest, and, aside from different ideas of how clean the house should be, it was ok. He scored lots of free feeds/drinks at uni (he was doing his masters) because of the novelty factor of a man with a baby, and his mates used to borrow her in order to get girls' phone numbers. I was breastfeeding, so he didn't have to deal with broken sleep, and we cooked together. I still found him attractive, and he seemed to reciprocate.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2014-12-18T12:36:37+00:00

Im down to be a homemaker but it's not masculine though.

sh1v · 2014-12-19T07:38:34+00:00

Random: I think it's hilarious that Stedman has reached one-name status by pure association to Oprah.

I didn't know who he was before you brought it up, if that makes you feel any better.

"Oh how I wish I could be provided for for by a woman... The life!" But they never continue on with that statement and volunteer their services for primarily homemaking and childrearing.

Men who are dismissive of homemaking and childrearing are talking out of their asses. I am married and spend a considerable amount of time with our child despite being the sole breadwinner. It is a difficult task, easily on par with the toughest service sector jobs (which are themselves no joke) and all the more so because it is your own child and you desperately want to do the best job possible. It's high pressure in that sense.

Having said that, it can be easy if you are a shitty parent.

I would not be willing to be a homemaker of any sort. Not because I see it as beneath me. I actually really enjoy being at home, cooking, spending time with my family. I just don't see myself as being respected while in that role. My wife has even said as much. She would like for me to be the chief earner, provider, protector. The same goes for our families, friends, people from work, etc. Men are held to a certain standard whether anyone admits to it or not.

autoNFA · 2014-12-17T16:41:58+00:00

I'd rather die.

[deleted] · 2014-12-17T17:24:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

We_Are_Legion · 2014-12-17T18:41:14+00:00

I'd be very willing.

If she could:

-make enough money to sustain our present standard of living (or better)

-come home with enough energy for the obligatory blowjob(or better)

See, I already cook, and I'm great with kids and I love kids. I worked with children with problems for several years when I was in college. plus, home-making is a cushy job and I always wanted to sit around and practice piano or do my art

InformalCriticism · 2014-12-17T17:48:17+00:00

I think I'd have to be shacked up with Oprah if I was going to let her wear the pants.
I tried to be that husband. Wife cheated, then divorce raped.
Done it before, she didn't like not being the one in the kitchen, so she would try to do both roles whenever she could.

Would an RP man extend this same courtesy to his "provider" wife?

I indirectly answered this question, but just to be clear: I tried, and just as TRP said, she became bitter and made us both miserable, then cheated and lashed out when I confronted her with divorce rape and legal cheap shots.

Now, let's get back to what I would say is the real question, what do men think about that idea? I'd say a lot of men would love the idea if it was anything close to realistic. I know I still fancy the thought, but I've watched couple after couple and marriage after marriage go south in that setup, not just my own.

duckducklandwhale · 2014-12-17T18:08:56+00:00

Id pretty much do l this if I wanted to become the domestic housebitch of the relationship. Though, I dont think any women (besides undesirable feminists) respect a bitchboy. At least that's what most of the hubub Ive ascertained from females throughout life and common sense. Shit, I wouldnt be surprised to find if even male peers have no respect for domesticated male with no authority.

stats135 · 2014-12-17T18:09:45+00:00

Is my wife in this case a young attractive women begging for sex every time she gets home (like a man would)? If that is the case, not only am I willing, I find it heavenly to live the rest of my life relaxing at home and only needing to make a meal or two everyday. Obviously, in the real world, few high quality women want homemakers so my heavenly dream life would never happen.

throwinout · 2014-12-17T19:40:16+00:00

I'd be willing, here's the difference - women will always know their children are theirs because there is no maternity fraud. I don't want to be the homemaker for some kids that aren't even mine, and I just wasted my time while I could have been off having my kids for real. I recently learned this is how bonobos sort of operate.

Title	Are men willing to be homemakers?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	7
Comments	121
Date	December 17, 2014 3:39 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2pl0wd/are_men_willing_to_be_homemakers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-willing-to-be-homemakers.284079 https://theredarchive.com/post/284079