Are women really that deceptive in their tastes?

exit_sandman · 2015-09-04T13:02:18+00:00

Is my experience really unusual?

Definitely.

Even when women had shown preferences, they didn't admit to the reason. When we hit puberty, a whole bunch of girls from my class were totally into boygroup guys. Did they say "I want a guy who is a celebrity and whom every other girl wants (despite him being a full-fledged sexual predator if he went for me)"? Fuck that, they said they wanted these guys because they were "cute" and also because they were totally nice and sweet to their fans and stuff like that. They basically pretended (and probably believed it themselves) that their qualities had nothing to do with their status.

Later, when they grew up and went for attainable guys, they touted the 2nd tier qualities of their boyfriends (how nice and sweet and caring and intelligent they were) and rarely what brought them together in the first place. Also, women were pretty willing to admit when they were attracted to flaws ("a guy needs lovehandles") and be repulsed by perks ("muscles are disgusting") or at least indifferent towards them ("looks aren't that important"), but never the inverse. And of course, the whole thing was promoted by the media that commented on different preferences among the genders among the lines laid out by the feminine imperative: when an individual woman commented on how she saw the SMP, you could bank on her touting beta and dismissing (or outright condemning) alpha qualities. When it was a general article about preferences, it went to great length to sneer at men for being superficial and looks-oriented and to praise women for wanting love instead of just sex and for admiring beta qualities (they probably took the self-reported preferences women gave them at face value).

Ironically, the only women who were pretty transparent about what they wanted were the trashier ones... should have listened more to them instead.

TheGreasyPole · 2015-09-04T12:44:49+00:00

I think the difference is mainly between conscious preferences and unconscious ones.

When you ask a person something you are engaging their rational conscious brain. They will supply you the answers that rational conscious brain gives.

What they won't, what they can't, give you.... Is the preferences their subconscious brain has. They are usually unaware of these.

Women's conscious brains are highly engaged in beta attributes. It's important for the genes that it is because traits good for "provisioning" vary so much by circumstance.

OTOH, alpha traits are traits for good genes. They're largely the same irrespective of cultural context. So unconscious processes (emotions) mediate those desires. They don't rise into conscious deliberation so much. That guy is just hot and the other guy just isn't.

So.... When you ask women.... You typically get a reply of "just be hot" and if you press further into traits that are desirable then they just reeling through the beta traits as they are the other ones they are aware of.

If you're a guy hearing this who is not hot.... You tend to discard that prelim, and focus on the things you can change. The beta traits she reeled off, thinking that it improves your attractiveness.

Thus you end up with lots of beta, but only the alpha you started with.

This is all because everyone munges A and B together into "attractiveness".

No one but RP divides the two and says "beta is not enough unless you have alpha" .... And no one else but RP can give you a piece by piece breakdown of alpha because only RP has really understood it's genetic component and analysed it.

Everyone else thinks hot is just hot, and it kinda varies amongst all the special snowflakes.

Personally I think it's this, rather than female deception, that is the real root cause.

Well this and women get embarrassed to admit "I want a tall good looking guy with a big knob" because they're afraid that makes them look shallow.

whystoppnow · 2015-09-04T12:44:07+00:00

I think that most young women are romantics during a young man's formative years and that that's where this advice comes from. "Be yourself, don't change for anybody," or when you get let down easy "I'm sure you'll make some girl really happy one day," are ideas based on this romantic "someone for everyone idea." I feel like this is what makes girls more concerned with leagues. If all the guys date down (or their equal as women understand it) than everyone gets a happy ending.

"See I told you one day a girl would appreciate the real (awkward, supplicating, emotionally damaged) you." Perhaps this is for the sake of their community. Lets keep in mind that during these years women really have no idea who they are and on what spectrum their variety of tastes lie so they combine all of the traits they like into a perfect guy and these traits themselves are less attractive when they aren't wanted anymore. "Don't be sensitive when I want you to be stubborn, don't be stoic when I want you to listen, don't be nice when I want you to show backbone." Women are confusing in this aspect but it isn't a problem they have to address because they generally will get what they want in a relationship but most will never have that guy matches the numerous traits she want.

Guys just want you to be hot though. We're a little more aware of our drives.

nomdplume · 2015-09-04T14:46:12+00:00

I would say that it's a combination of social mores and actual physiological phenomenon.

On the one hand, women (and men) are taught from an early age what they "should" value in a man, and if they don't value what they "should", they are shallow, materialistic, slutty, whatever.

On the other hand, women have all kinds of conflicting physiological reactions to sex stimuli.

That study showed that women, unlike men, have physical sexual responses to stimuli which are not predicted by and even contradict what they say they respond to sexually.

I know from talking with women that, for a lot of women, this contradiction between what they want intellectually and what their body is telling them they want can be very confusing.

winndixie · 2015-09-04T14:33:10+00:00

Of course not! Women are never deceptive and LOOOVE nice guys.

M'lady! How dost thou fare to supp tonight and make love?

KingChipotleII · 2015-09-04T14:43:51+00:00

A lot of women tend to say what they think others want to hear, so it depends on who's asking.

If they think it'll hurt someone's feelings (if they're talking to a "nice guy") or make them seem like an airhead or slut (if they're talking to another woman or their parents, lol) to admit they prefer buff, good looking dudes with big penises, they'll say otherwise.

nemma88 · 2015-09-04T12:22:10+00:00

I thought the point is, as a whole, they want both.

sensitive, caring and nice men who will respect them & strong buff athletes who would dominate them

Those are not mutually exclusive, they are just unicorn territory when combined.

The problem I think, is mainstream and TRP are coming from different angles. When mainstream asks what women want, the answer based on what they want in a partner, LTR based. Top RP sub focuses on getting and being plate material only. So they are not really lying, just not answering the question with different goals in mind.

blametheboogie · 2015-09-04T12:40:01+00:00

I have never heard a woman say she wanted a man to dominate her, at least not that I can remember.

What I usually hear is that they want this famous guy or that one even if it's a locally famous guy like a local athlete or celebrity.

I live in the country, maybe women are more truthful in large cities or your part of the country or world.

wtknight · 2015-09-04T14:57:25+00:00

I agree with the original poster in that I've never experienced deception in what women say they want and what they actually want. The ones who wanted hot bodies and didn't care much about intelligence made it pretty clear that was what they wanted, while the ones who cared more about things like intelligence and the inability to have good conversations were open about that, as well, although this type still usually wants men who are at least reasonably fit.

The only thing that is potentially deceptive is many women saying that they desire "nice guys." I don't think it's deceptive per se because what women say when they say they want "nice guys" are that they want nice guys plus the other things that are attractive to them, whether it's a hot body, intelligence, sense of humor, musical talent, etc. If you are a "nice guy" and that is all you have going for you, you're probably not going to be that successful. All it means when many women say they want nice guys is that they don't want someone who is eventually going to be an asshole to them. They still want other positive attributes in a man besides this, and these attributes are probably more important to them than the "nice guy" part of it.

[deleted] · 2015-09-04T13:23:02+00:00

In this respect I've always found women to be completely truthful. I'm I alone in this? Is my experience really unusual?

Possibly unusual, although I've met women who are frank and truthful. But by and large, women tend to be more vague and non-committal about stating their preferences, but not always deceptive. I've known women who are truthful enough that they'll admit that it's common for women to deceive about things like this.

I recall seeing a car commercial a few years back, where it shows this young lady talking on the phone, as she was waiting to meet a man for the first time. She was apparently talking to a friend and saying "This time, I want to meet who's nice, caring, attractive, sensitive to her needs, etc." - the kind of stuff that you usually hear women say. As she's talking, the commercial cuts back and forth to this guy driving (can't remember what kind of car it was), and he was reasonably tall, good-looking but more a tough guy look than a pretty boy - and he was dressed like a hit man. As she saw him get out of the car, she said to her friend (with a look like she just soaked her panties) "Gotta go!"

Xemnas81 · 2015-09-04T14:42:46+00:00

You can basically judge which mating strategy a woman is on by which guy she's currently fawning over.

AF: "Omg this guy is so hot/mmm gorgeous"

BB: "Awww he's so sweet/cute/such a gentleman/what a great dad!"

I think there has been a massive upswing in this near-misandrist portion of the 3rd wave, where women are glorifying in objectifying men. Because it's become obvious that Looks Count, they've given away that aspect of the feminine imperative. It's now part of our collective social consciousness that, you know what, sometimes it's just about the abs.

But that's because hookups are becoming more socially acceptable; 'slut-shaming' etc. You still hear women hamster that Looks Matter Less in the BB. The point is, feminism is making it unacceptable to question this aspect of the FI. We know about it, but we can't call it out.

Moreover all those guys who are saying 'they don't acknowledge the man's status' no, the Manosphere is firmly convinced that girls prioritise looks over everything else. Women, on the other hand, want a man with status. The desire for wealth and status over aesthetics and remedial social proof increases as a woman gets older. For the average 20something guy on this board, it's primarily about looks, social proof, Game, and ambition (the potential for future wealth and status)

When 16 year old girls go coo-coo over Zayn Malik, I genuinely believe it's because his celebrity status affirms to them their belief that he is very good looking. When you're a teenager (especially a stupid shallow one bombarded with superficial media) you genuinely believe that you can swerve through life to demigod status just by looking great. This is part of why selfless inflates female SMV to ludicrous levels: desperate plugged-in teenage boys give good looking but otherwise generic late adolescent girls the illusion that they are, in fact, celebrities.

TRP's main complaint is that late teen to early 20something women don't want to look like bitches or sluts, so they lie (to unattractive men trying to raise their SMV) that looks don't matter. If the guy is Alpha or hot, they tell the truth. This is standard PUA knowledge.

However, going back to point 1, it's a white lie, and sometimes (not always but sometimes) they don't even realise it's a lie.

Also, they're about to have feminism, Nice Guys ™, entitlement etc. rammed into their heads. This leads to hamstering such as 'when an ugly guy is really sweet to you, it means he's bitter and treating to get not your pants; hot guys are genuinely good people because why would they need to fake being nice? Everyone already likes them.'

kick6 · 2015-09-04T14:43:33+00:00

Growing up I've always heard girls saying they want strong buff athletes who would dominate them. They would lose their mind whenever a fit dude would take off their shirt or when the subject of large penises would come up on TV.

The way you state this makes me think you're very young. It wouldn't surprise me that this was the case, and that way you're seeing is actually occuring. With each successive generation, women feel less of a need to hide their true desires. Sheryl Sandberg even goes so far as to spell it out in her latest book

When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

Older generations of women still try to hide their motives.

Maoist-Pussy · 2015-09-04T16:20:50+00:00

Is my experience really unusual?

I think your experience may be unusual. It is only in the last 3 years or so that it has started to seep out into the average consciousness that the majority of women prefer to be dominated in bed and that sort of thing.

There has been a lot of messaging to the contrary over the last 30 years or so.

[deleted] · 2015-09-04T20:57:51+00:00

Yeah, I mean even when you watch movies or TV shows as a kid the stereotype was that the hot chicks go after the captain of the football team, or the rich kid, or the guy with the nice car, or the party animal. In high school I finally realized that the guys who had the most success with women were the ones who actually talked to them instead of just bitching about it with their friends.

GridReXX · 2015-09-04T13:54:57+00:00

who would dominate them

Never heard that growing up.

Always seen and heard this though:

hey would lose their mind whenever a fit dude would take off their shirt or when the subject of large penises would come up on TV. They would yearn for Brad Pitt, Channing Tatum

So I would say women were pretty transparent about what they found attractive. Just see who they lose their shit over. Bam. Then copy that.

[deleted] · 2015-09-04T15:05:13+00:00

So you're small group of friends=women in general?

betterdeadthanbeta · 2015-09-04T18:08:50+00:00

I've always had the opposite experience. Growing up I've always heard girls saying they want strong buff athletes who would dominate them.

How old are you, mate? Keep a sharp eye on those girls as they grow older. At some point they'll start griping more about "modern" dating and how men need to man up and commit. How American dudes / Millennials are "immature", how they're ready for a "real man"...

Exercise a lil logic here. Most men go through the exact same thing after their initial youthful phase of sophomoric, one-up-manship driven obsession over tits and asses. They start to realize they want an eventual mother for their children, rather than another "notch"

ManRAh · 2015-09-04T19:12:07+00:00

Women fawn constantly over strong, fit dudes... but I rarely hear them externalize about male dominance. Usually they drop some generic statement of attraction "He's so hot" and then slather some desire for Beta traits on top. He already looks physically dominant, so they fantasize about getting the full AB package from him.

This is why TRP says to watch how women act... not to listen to what they say. When you watch a guy man-handle a girl and she squeals with excitement, you can tell she's turned on, even though just before she was gushing about some Beta shit that he did for her (or she wants him to do).

Dietyz · 2015-09-05T14:19:21+00:00

Women mostly describe their tastes logically, things that they recognize are important and needed for a healthy relationship with them. The tastes that are the most important though are the traits that they emotionally desire, it is much less common for a woman to verbalize these most likely because she isn't fully aware of them

Its like they tell you what their favorite topping on an ice cream cone is, but not what their favorite flavor of ice cream is. If you don't like the ice cream than whether or not it has your preferred topping ceases to be relevant.

[deleted] · 2015-09-06T20:09:54+00:00

What about all the girls who fancy guys like Justin Beiber and all these emo, scene and boy band types?

Title	Are women really that deceptive in their tastes?
Author	TheEgregore
Upvotes	12
Comments	153
Date	September 4, 2015 12:10 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3jlyna/are_women_really_that_deceptive_in_their_tastes/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-women-really-that-deceptive-in-their-tastes.279805 https://theredarchive.com/post/279805