Can we discuss human sexual response in terms of "Lizard Brain" and "Mammal Brain" ? Is this useful ?

OK,

So I've been thinking a lot about brains lately...

In order to fit this into an OP I'm going to have to simplify.

Lizard Brain

Mammals inherited a brain from their reptile ancestors. This brain runs with emotion... Fear, Lust, love, hate, anger etc etc.... That's how it works. All animals have this brain. Its a really simple brain, and it runs off of "Deterministic Evolutionary Strategies" learnt in the "time before writing". Hell, learnt in the "time before mammals" usually. These are deterministic strategies set genetically, humans all share some version of these.

Lizard brain pushes the emotions he/she controls into your rational brain in furtherance of those old evolutionary strategies. You can't control what emotions he pushes, only your response to them. Lizard Brain is happy to take in info from your rational brain, but he decides separately whether to change the Feelz or not. He's not amenable to persuasion. He's a thick old lizard. He can't even read and/or understand condoms FFS.

Lizard brain is in sole control of your emotions.

Mammal Brain

In mammals we developed a second brain overlaid on the top of this reptile brain of emotion. A rational "figure stuff out" brain. Humans have the most massively overdeveloped version of this. Here is where the rational information processing resides. Here is where the you that you describe as being you resides. This brain has control over all your actual actions, just not the Feelz. Lizard Brain got them all locked up tight.

Mammal brain is in sole control of your rational thought processes and decides whether to act on these, or the Feelz, or a combination of the two.

An example

So.... When someone throws a ball... And you catch it "automatically", putting your hand in the right spot without thinking about it, that's lizard brain. All evolution wired automatic responses.

If someone throws a ball... And you get out a pen, calculator and paper... Do your calculus, predict the parabolic arc, predict the timing... Then put your hand where the math says to. Close your fingers when the maths says to. Then catch it. That's mammal brain.

How Lizard and Mammal brain work together

As I covered above Lizard brain runs evolutionary deterministic strategy set by genes. He doesn't think much. He's just a dumb old lizard. "Oooooh... Sexy male... Here are the panty wetting feels evolution wants you to have".

Mammal brain either accepts this and uses it's processing power to support old lizard...

"Ooooh.. The feels... He must be my soulmate, it's finally my time to be happy. Rational brain agrees, Follow the Feelz"

Or he rejects it

"The Feelz are strong, but I've got a good hubby. Ignore the Feelz at least this time".

When RP meets a women who just cannot rationally override her feels... We describe that woman as a child. Just like my 4 year old. When daddies mad... She just crumples in tears, she can't help it, her little 4 year old lizard brain pushes those Feelz in and she just can't do anything but respond to the feels yet. Mammal brain hasn't developed enough yet. For some women, it never develops. They are what RP describes as "children". Completely at the mercy of the lizard brain Feelz. Nothing wrong with that, you just have to deal with that a certain way if you are interacting with this kind of "mental child".

When RP meets a women who can rationally override her feels, but rarely does so... We describe that woman as a teenager. Just like many teenagers you have met. Sometimes they can override the Feelz, sometimes they are just too strong. Because women get much stronger Feelz than men from lizard brain (they are much more emotion focussed) there are a lot of women in this teenager state. They know what rational thought is, but the Feelz are just so strong... Sometimes they overcome them, sometimes they do not. Mammal brain has developed, he's just in control only sporadically. Like a teenager. These women are largely, but not completely, at the mercy of lizard brain. Nothing wrong with that, you just have to deal with that a certain way if you are interacting with this kind of "mental teenager".

Finally, RP meets women who can rationally override her feels, and often does so... We describe that woman as a competent FO (or as I would, as my tailgunner). Just like many adults you have met, they get the Feelz. They just have pretty good, but not perfect, rational control over their actions. Often they can override the Feelz, often when the Feelz are at their very strongest. They know what rational thought is, and use it to decide. Mammal brain has developed, he's largely in control. Like an adult. These women are not completely at the mercy of lizard brain. Nothing wrong with that, you just have to deal with that a certain way if you are interacting with this kind of "mental adult".

This way of dividing the brain also explains other RP concepts. The Hamster is a woman using her rational brain to support the lizard brain feels. "Oh, Mr Studly is so dreamy (lizard brain pushing Feelz)... So he must be right for me or else just why would I feel this way. This must mean he is my soulmate. This must mean hubby, is not my soulmate. Ergo, my rational brain says give into the Feelz. Sleep with Mr Studly. Just don't let hubby find out". We see this a lot... and, lets be clear, guys do just this as well (if not as often).

RP and Lizard Brain

RP ignores mammal brain. Works directly with lizard brain. So many women have such trouble controlling their feels that we've found working with the "organ grinder" to be more useful than working with the "monkey" that dances to lizard brains tune.

RP is all about providing qualities that excite female Lizard Brains, regardless of whether they engage mammal brain too (engaging both is useful, just not required).

You see... We don't want to get the girl that Feelz she wants to be elsewhere, and overrides it with her rational brain. One, she ain't that into you. Two, who can be sure how long mammal brain will keep winning that particular battle ?

What we want... Is girls engaged with us through the "Feelz". Who wants to be there with you. Whose lizard brain thinks YOU are Mr Studly. Thats where all the good sex is, for a start. For a second, you can hoover up all the child brains and teenager brains easily... and still have a pretty damn good shot with the competent FO's as well... Why NOT get the "Feelz" on your side ?

This is what RP is more or less aiming to do. This is how we can provide what women want, when they don't know what they want... They don't know lizard brain, we do. We deal with Lizard brain even if the girl doesn't understand at all where The Feelz are coming from or why.

How this causes confusion

Well, if you don't understand the above... or disagree with it strongly... You are doing so with your rational mammal brain. It's what we use when we type around here. Things feel wrong to him that ol' lizard brain is perfectly happy and OK with.

Then people start arguing... "Girls aren't really like that"....OR... NAWALT... OR.... "Well I don't think that way... So you must be wrong".... OR... "Well my rational brain says that won't work on me, so it wouldn't".

No shit. Your thinking brain don't think that way. We know. Thats why we go direct to Lizard Brain. It's just much more effective, because whilst all rational/mammal brains are running different software based on life experience... All lizard brains run the same old evolutionary deterministic strategies that they always ran, even back when chipping rocks into sharper rocks was cutting edge technology.

If you are looking for "things all (or close to all) women share in common"... Lizard Brain is your hunting ground.

If you are looking to turn actions into women wanting to, having the emotions to, have actual sex... Lizard Brain is where you have to impress.

Getting rational brain onside can help, as an afterthought.... But offered the choice between "Lizard brain say yes" and "Lizard brain say no" there is every reason to believe that getting lizard brain on side means getting laid more. Probably 100 times more. Most women will not go against Lizard Brain. If he don't give you the Feelz ? You aren't getting laid.

From this comes the RP phrase "You can't negotiate attraction". Damn right, negotiation is something mammal brain does. Lizard Brain governs attraction. You can't negotiate with him.

Thats what the lifting is about... The grooming... The behaviour patterns... The masculinity... The taking no shit... It's all plugging direct into lizard brain.

Can we now have a discussion about whether this is a good way of understanding human nature, and particularly human sexual nature ? Where do you think this view is right ? Or Wrong ? Or could be improved and refined ?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Yes

Phew. Thought I might be dealing with a creationist for a second

I accept that they are there. I also accept that most of them can be easily repressed besides the obvious ones like eating and drinking water.

Cool. In your view have humans completely repressed their sex drive ?

Or do pretty women still sell cars ?

If it's not completely repressed... Can you see how working with the natural drive would get guys laid ?

They are mostly repressed, which is why humanity has been able to build great civilizations.

I'd disagree. They are not repressed, but channeled into safe outlets.

Aggression ? Sport

Fear ? Extreme sports !

Anger ? Discussing shit on the internet

Sex ? Social structures like marriage.

They are all still there. Successful societies divert (us, Rome, China) unsuccessful societies try to repress (Ussr, Cuba, communes, ashrams). They rarely do so successfully and usually collapse in short order.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

I can see how it'd work on a certain sub group of women that find your tactics appealing.

What if that sub-group is "99% of women who have a lizard brain in their head" ... i.e. 99% of all female humans ?

When I said repressed I meant by laws. Murdering is wrong, stealing is wrong, raping is wrong, etc.

But they aren't the drives and emotions I am talking about. They are the actions.

Societies DO NOT SUPRESS THE DRIVES they just supress some of the actions those drives lead to.

Ergo, in modern society... the drives are all still there... And RP takes advantage of those drives by using them to deliver goals for men.

Sure, but most of the time they are dormant.

Bullshit. If most of the time they were dormant... You'd hardly ever feel emotion.

Humans feel emotions ALL THE TIME. How can those feelz be dormant ?

They are so NOT dormant... That they use them to sell cars and aftershave... Fashion and Makeup... EVERYTHING.

Go tell a marketing exec that emotions are dormant, and he should appeal to peoples rational brains to sell his aftershave.

He'll laugh in your face if he's got any sense.

They are there, we all have them, very very very few understand them.

RP understands them... And puts them to good use for the men and women who will listen.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Have you been with 99% of women?

No. But shall we have a thought experiment ?

Lets say I show a picture of an underwear model.

Then lets say I show a picture of the neckiest virgin neckbeard in existence. The pimply, spotty, clutching his katana guy.

Then I ask women....

"Which of these two men do you feel instinctively attracted to ?"

What %'age do you think will pick the neckbeard ?

I'm guessing under 1%. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's 3% or 0.1%.

How many women do you think would pick neckbeard over underwear model ?

Who would you instinctively feel drawn to ?

See, you have a lizard brain too.

Yes they do. Also, suppress=/=nonexistent.

No, which society suppresses anger ? None.

Which society supresses actions that angry people might take ? All of them.

Which society suppresses fear ? None.

Which society supresses actions that make people afraid ? All of them.

Which society suppresses lust ? None.

Which society supresses actions that damage society due to lust (affairs etc) ? All of them.

The actions, not the emotions, are what is suppressed.

When you TRY to suppress the emotions... It ends very badly. People can;t help but have the emotions, all they can control is how they act upon them.

Therfore, society works with suppressing these actions... as that is possible... and not the emotions... which is impossible.

You're mistaking drives with emotions. I get angry when a barista at my local Starbucks mispells my name on my coffee cup. My drive is to hop over the counter and cut a bitch in the face, but it is suppress by the fact that I'd go to jail for mutilating someone, not to mention that it is morally wrong.

Exactly.

Society didn't suppress your anger did it ? Not one jot. You are STILL just as angry.

What did society suppress ? Your actions.

You were allowed to get angry. You wern't allowed to jump the counter and slash her face.

Societies suppress actions, not emotions.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

This is bad science. You're giving only two choices to choose from, both of which are complete polar opposites from one another.

Honey, this isn't science AT ALL it's a debate.

Yes I offered two polar opposites to illustrate the point. If you're idea was correct they'd be a 50:50 shot. They aren't. Women have commonalities of thinking.

This was to demonstrate one you were telling me didn't exist. That 99% of women would prefer a very hot guy over a very unattractive guy.

That's what RP does. It turns unattractive guys into attractive ones.

It says "put down the katana, get to the gym. The more you look like the underwear model and the less like the neckbeard the more female LBs will want you. Then you're problems with chicks will solve themselves".

The. You lot pop up and tell us what rot this is, that every chick is different, that NAWALT, and we laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.

We're not talking about emotions here, we're talking about drives. They are two different things.

No they are not. Your sex drive is identical to your love/lust emotion.

When there are no good guys to lust over ? Sex drive down. Libido down.

A hot guy turns up ? Wow ! Here that sex drive and libido again. Where'd that come from ?

Even chicks don't know. RP worked it out. We worked out girls lizard brains. Want proof ? We get laid.

Do you even know what your argument is anymore?

Same one I started with. You seem to be getting a bit confused though. Can't tell an action from an emotion.

Makes me think... I wonder where TroopCaptain is on our child-teenager-FO scale.

If you can't tell the difference between an emotion/drive... And acting on that drive... Where on our scale would you place a person like that ?

[–]BeautyinNothing-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]haircombsnightmare5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This isn't a new theory. This is called Triune Brain and says as follows.

"The triune brain consists of the reptilian complex, the paleomammalian complex (limbic system), and the neomammalian complex (neocortex), viewed as structures sequentially added to the forebrain in the course of evolution."

“ -Reptilian brain: basial ganglia. Responsible for species-typical instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays.

-Paleomammalian brain: limbic system. Responsible for the motivation and emotion involved in feeding, reproductive behavior, and parental behavior.

-Mammal brain: Neocortex. Conferring the ability for language, abstraction, planning, and perception.”

And now, I quote:

“However, this hypothesis is no longer espoused by the majority of comparative neuroscientists in the post-2000 era. (...) While the categorizaton into structures is reasonable, the recent studies of the limbic system of tetrapods, both living and extinct, have challenged several aspects of this hypothesis, notably the accuracy of the terms "reptilian" and "old mammalian". The common ancestors of reptiles and mammals had a well-developed limbic system in which the basic subdivisions and connections of the amygdalar nuclei were established. Further, birds, which evolved from the dinosaurs, which in turn evolved separately but around the same time as the mammals, have a well-developed limbic system. While the anatomic structures of the limbic system are different in birds than in mammals, there are functional equivalents.”

I would also like to add that:

When RP meets a women who just cannot rationally override her feels... We describe that woman as a child. Just like my 4 year old."

“Damasio formulated the somatic marker hypothesis (SMH), that proposes a mechanism by which emotional processes can guide (or bias) behavior, particularly decision-making. Pfister and Böhm believe that "the issue of rationality should be based on the validity of emotional evaluations rather than on formal coherence.” Source.

Therefore decision-making is ruled by emotions for both male and female adults.

“Well my rational brain says that won't work on me, so it wouldn't". No shit. Your thinking brain don't think that way. We know. Thats why we go direct to Lizard Brain.(...) Most women will not go against Lizard Brain."

“Females show enhanced information recall compared to men. This may be due to the fact that females' approach to mate competition is a lot less physical and more focused on mental and cognitive based reasoning.” Source.

“The male brains are just “doing the math” and turn off after they have made a decision. The female brains are quite different. After women have decided how much to repay, but before they know how their partner reacted to their decision, areas of the brain active in processing potential reward (ventromedial prefrontal cortex and ventral striatum) and in regulating worry and error-detection (caudate nucleus) are active. The women are worrying, and thinking about the reward consequences, after they have decided how much to repay. “ Source.

Mammal brain hasn't developed enough yet. For some women, it never develops.

“Based on post-mortem and pediatric neuroimaging studies published to date, the prefrontal cortex appears to be one of the last brain regions to mature. Given the prolonged physiological development and organization of the prefrontal cortex during childhood, tasks believed to involve this region are ideal for investigating the neural bases of cognitive development.” Source

This means, it is right to say the prefrontal lobe, or “rational” lobe, hasn’t fully developed yet in children and teenagers. This has been explained to be one of the reasons why teenagers are impulsive and make irrational decisions. But…

“According to recent findings, the human brain does not reach full maturity until at least the mid-20s.” Source

There is no evidence this only applies to women. This is for human beings in general. While men and women have differences, none go as far as TRP declares.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Awesome stuff. Its nice to see someone has taken a little time over this. This is proper debate....

Your first quote chunk... Great... I can accept what it says, that calling lizard brain "the reptillian brain" and mammal brain "mammal brain" is not strictly accurate. I agree. It's just a very useful way of describing it in a short(ish) OP.

I'd slip into some better language... Perhaps "Evolutionarily wired emotional response system" and "Socialised and Dynamic rational response system" but we can just use the LB and MB shortcuts to that as a kind of shorthand (mainly so we don;t confuse the hell out of everyone else). Nevertheless, me and you know what we mean.

For your second quoted chunk... Yes of course both males and females have these systems. I didn't say anything different. Males have an LB (or "Evolutionarily wired emotional response system") just like women.

RP believes men tend to be better at overcoming LB with MB. We can discuss that, if you want. I tend to agree with them... Women just are more emotionally driven on average than men.

Women quite openly agree so.

The next I'll quote in full...

“Females show enhanced information recall compared to men. This may be due to the fact that females' approach to mate competition is a lot less physical and more focused on mental and cognitive based reasoning.”

YES again ! You are on fire....

This is why we divide traits into Alpha and Beta and note women want both ... and in the gender reversed situation guys are a LOT more interested in female Alpha than Beta.

Alpha is, more or less, the old evolutionary wired stuff.

Beta is, more or less, the modern qualities women have overlaid on their alpha requirements with focus on mental and cognitive based reasoning.

Us poor males just want the hot bod !

What the quote doesn't say... is silent on... But RP does say is that "Bringing the beta ain't enough if you don't have the alpha".

A women is looking for a mate choice who triggers her lizard brain (alpha) and her rational brain (beta).

She isn't interested in beta only men, she don't get the feels.

She is interested in alpha only men, but only as fucks not as LTR's (unless she thinks she can squeeze some beta out of him).

Otherwise, more or less right.

“The male brains are just “doing the math” and turn off after they have made a decision. The female brains are quite different. After women have decided how much to repay, but before they know how their partner reacted to their decision, areas of the brain active in processing potential reward (ventromedial prefrontal cortex and ventral striatum) and in regulating worry and error-detection (caudate nucleus) are active. The women are worrying, and thinking about the reward consequences, after they have decided how much to repay.

Again, interesting stuff... And what you'd expect... Women are working out if "This guy is good enough to sire one of the 10 babies she can have". She wants to make sure of that decision.

A guy is merely deciding "Whether this chick is worth a fuck" because he ain't limited to 10 babies... he can have an infinite amount.

Based on that, I'd expect women to do a lot of reasoning.

That DON'T change however whether she gets the feels. She ain't going to try and reason her way into the pants of a guy she don't have the feels for (pre-epiphany at least).

She's only trying to reason over whether the guy she already has the feelz for is worth the risk.

On the last point... teenage brains... I totally agree. AGAIN ! Sure, guys act like teenagers too... Lots of them. We've all met them.

So do chicks, we've all met them too.

RP advises men that women can be teenagers, because they can be and thats very useful info for a guy.

We don;t do the reverse... because we're not advising women. When the women do advise the women (RPW) their advice is harsher than the mens.

The men say "So, you've got a teenager. Here's how to deal with her".

The women say "So, you've got a teenager. Here's how to dump those guys. They are no use to you. Dump him and go get a real man".

They're brutal over there at RPW.

[–]haircombsnightmare1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Emotionally driven is no the exact definition. It implies women exclusively make decisions based on emotions, which I already proved wrong. We do have some emotional differences, which are these:

"Women retain emotional memories more vividly than do men. Sometimes, however, this can have a negative effect on women and they may have impaired memory at times due to strong emotional overlap. Another negative outcome of women forming strong emotional memories is an increased vulnerability to depression"

That's what people mean when they say women are "emotional".

What this would explain is women remember the past with stronger than men, and are more prone to depression than men, but it's not directly linked to how this could influence their decision-making. In fact, as I already explained before, women are more focused on mental and cognitive based reasoning when choosing a mate.

I'm sincerely still not sure what makes a man "alpha" or "beta". I searched and I couldn't find anything scientific that explains "beta" and "alpha" behaviour in humans. What I did find is:

"Females prefer males that exhibit "enhanced learning ability" because that shows that they can adapt to the changing environment well and increase their chances of survival.(...)However, sexual selection's role in human evolution cannot be definitively established."

Nothing about beta, alpha, omega, delta, etc.

I didn't say that. I said during teenage years, the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed yet, which explains impulsive and irrational behaviours at that age for humans in general. I also said the brain reaches maturity by 20 years old, for both men and women.

It doesn't say can, it says they are. RedPill believes ALL women are teenagers or children. They go out of their way to prove this. AWALT rings any bells?

RPW and RP are the same in my eyes. They too believe women have to be submissive, that women are children-like creatures to be protected from all evil, that they are better than feminists or other "unlady-like" women, that they belong to the kitchen...

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

No. Look at what I am saying, all through this thread. I am not saying women exclusively make decision on emotion. I am saying the feel the emotion, then make a decision. They can go with the emotion or not. Women are more likely to go with the emotion than men... Because they feel them much more strongly.

Thats more or less it.

Well good for "people". I know what I've been saying in this thread. Why don't you address that rather than these nebulous "people" you have defined.

And I agreed that point !

Men barely think about it. I'm not surprised women think more about it. That doesn't address my point.

I'm sincerely still not sure what makes a man "alpha" or "beta". I searched and I couldn't find anything scientific that explains "beta" and "alpha" behaviour in humans.

Colour me surprised ! No, don't.

Of course there is no scientific literature covering "Alpha" and "Beta" they are our terms, not scientific terms.

They may describe something that science has ALSO picked up on, but scientists wouldn't have recorded them under those terms.

When you are talking in the bar with a mate about what is a "tasty pint" do you also google "tasty pint" and tell him thats impossible because there are no scientific articles written that respond to "tasty pint".

And what I am positing is.... That at that point of 20 years old.... Whatever their state of neural development... More women will exhibit "behaviours associated with teenage humans" than would males of the same age.

Consequently, as we are dealing with behaviour modification at RP... The heuristic "Treat women like you would a teenager" is a useful heuristic that will lead to better results over a randomized control.

Just be aware ... When you google "Treat women like teenagers" you won;t find any scientific articles there either.

Doesn't mean it don't work.

Sigh. Define be what the T refers to in AWALT.

Because I'm fucked if I could ever find an RP guy who didn't define it in a different way to every other RP guy.

I'm sure plenty have used it in reference to "treat women as teenagers" ... They are just the guys not aware of the difference between model based algorithms and heuristic algorithms.

They are mistaking a heuristic for a model result.

No biggie.

The problem is, we all disagree about what AWALT means... So I have no confidence you know. Because you aren't even really aware of our great debate on the issue.

Well, thats a mighty fine set of prejudices you've got there. I hope you like them.

I'm pretty sure the only one you've nailed there that more than 80% of RPW's would agree with is...

they are better than feminists or other "unlady-like" women

But, I can;t really speak for them. You'd have to ask an RPW to get a good answer.

[–]haircombsnightmare0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]lorispoison1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Under what terms should I search them?

I don't know. You're the science buff.

I do RP because I see it work every day.

I wouldn't know where to go to find science articles on it, because I'm not interested in trying to confirm RP with science.

That it works, every day, is enough for me.

And the proof is?

Mainly just asking women. They all tell me that they do so. Every woman I've ever had this conversation with concedes immediately that "oh yeah. We get stronger emotions than men. They're difficult to control sometimes".

To this has been added a lot of real world experience.. You ever watch an audience after a "weeper" ? Not a dry female eye in the cinema, and a lot of blokes looking grumpy they had to come watch this shit.

Seriously, you not met many women ? They're proud to be emotional. Wen see it as one of their great distinguishes from men.

As your a peer review buff... I bet you can find a dozen studies confirming this. I just believe the women I talk to. That and observation of humans is more than enough for me.

If you're gonna make statements like those, better back them up.

I decline to do that with scientific research. I am happy to debate them as points in a discussion with you, as they were offered.

As I made no scientific claims I don't believe I have to use a peer reviewed article to back them. I am always happy to discuss any peer reviewed stuff you'd like to bring... But you can feel free to ignore my points if you do not wish to debate them.

I'm happy to talk, as men would in the pub... Or around a meeting table at work... I am not going to trawl the internet for PR research just because you demand it.

I did NOT submit an argument based on scientific proof. I therefore see no need to support it with PR articles. I'll only do that when I claim "Science says..." Which I do rarely if at all.

[–]haircombsnightmare0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. Can I leave you with something I just thought up.

What if I said...

TGP: 99% of all doorknobs turn clockwise. Try it out, you'll see

Guy: that's bollocks. Show me a PR article that proves that !

TGP: why would you need to do that ? Got one, I won't be able to find an article. For two... Just turn your nearest doorknob

Guy: Ha ha ! You admit you can't prove it ! I'm right !

TGP: well I never claimed it was scientific. Just that it was true. Why don't you just turn a doorknob ?

Guy : what would that prove ?

TGP : well, if you turned 100 and 99 went clockwise, a LOT.

Guy : but it still wouldn't be science

TGP : No. But you'd know more about doorknobs...

Guy: I'm done here. Peace out.

Who was the idiot in that conversation ?

The guy talking like a normal human being or the guy who expects to see a PR article before believing anything, even when a few simple checks would be more than enough to move onto more fruitful topics.

You tell me.

[–]haircombsnightmare0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 8 years ago | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

So does this not apply in the other direction too?

Yes.

E.g. if you do understand the above, you're using your "mammal brain" too, right? Because it's the rationalizing of "instincts" or whatever?

Not necessarily. Your MB can agree with LB or disagree.

You are assuming we are always using our MB to agree with LB.

So how is redpill not just the rationalization ("mammalization") of the male "lizard brain," which apparently is telling most men that women are human beings who deserve to be treated as such?

Well sometimes it is. Sometimes RP posters "hamster" just as you have described above. You'll see RP posters accusing other RP posters of this on almost every thread.

Often it is not this... Where MB and LB disagree for example.

LB: Fuck that chick. She Hot.

RP: Don't fuck her. She hot, but she crayzeeee. Don't stick your dick in crazy.

LB : Aw come on. I want to. Tell mammal brain to fuck off.

RP: listen to MB. LB is wrong here. Follow him at your peril

Guy: Fuck it. She hot.

~6 months~

Guy: hey RP help. I'm in trouble with this crazy chick

RP: we told you so numbnuts. Stop listening to LB all the time.

I mean, since so many RPers have to be "taught" this rational mammal stuff (how to interact with women in a way that gets them laid, since it doesn't appear their lizard brain is helping them get what they need?) Why do only women's lizard brains get them sex?

OK this is just a misunderstanding.

LB tells you who you find hot. For males and females.

He has NO FUCKING IDEA how to land that hot chick/dude.

MB works that out. But MB can't tell you who you get the feelz for... LBs got that locked down tight.

This is the same for both genders. Much mor of a problem for guys though. Men have to be active in the chase, or no girl. Girls can be active or passive and get a guy.

So irrespective of the whole LB/MB thing... There are a lot of things guys need to learn. RP teaches those things.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points5 points 8 years ago | Copy Link

I guess I'm not understanding how you can appear to use "lizard brain" to refer to both the unsolicited, can't-control-it sexual responses of men to attractive women, and also the (apparently) unsolicited, can't-control-it treat-her-like-a-human-being responses which (apparently) get men shot down so much of the time that they need RP to help them learn some basic game.

This is a great point to discuss.

Because women do want both those things ! Mammal brain wants one (Mr nice) and Lizard brain wants the other (Mr genetically fit). So when you engage mammal brain, by asking her, she answers. As all of her is in mammal,brain she says she wants Mr nice.

It's only if you pass by as Mr genetically fit, you notice all the girls making moon eyes at you.

RP just does an end run at LB. Ignores MB completely. Pushes all the buttons we know are there in old lizard brain.

Then the girls think he's dreamy and start getting the feels. Some give in. Some don't. You just harvest whatever falls in your lap.

You stop,chasing the cat. It comes to you. It rubs against your leg.

Lizard brain is strong, most do not know he is there, just feel the Feelz with no idea why, everyone with a sex drive is succeptible.

The only way to defeat us is to ignore you feels. Do what MB says. Tell LB to fuck off.

Or join the light side of the force.

I can't understand what it means for men in an evolutionary psych context if most of them are just so damn bad at pulling women. I'm talking about all the hundreds of posts I read on asktrp where the guys have no clue and can't understand basic RP concepts like shit-tests etc. Now, I'm no RPW, but I read a lot about your ideas and believe I have a working knowledge of the theory, if one could call it that.

Well a couple of things happened. Guys stopped just being able to marry the gal next door at 18 because his daddy and her daddy made a deal. Normal village society broke down. Men had to have game.

Some was developed. And lost again... Many male game generational passes were fumbled in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s.

What little we had we lost again.

Then we worked it out. The Internet allowed us to do it properly this time, over a large data set.

Now, for probably the first time in history, guys have got access to better natural game advice than girls had through the mother/daughter network.

The reactive nature of the body of RP knowledge can't just be "hamstered" away as "oh, that's just anger phase" or "we're not all like that/that dumb/he's not fully swallowed the pill yet" or any other of the umpteen excuses I hear bandied about there (and here, from RPers). I feel like there's a lot of rationalization going on over on those subs that I can't quite square with your articulation here of "rational/mammal brain" and "lizard brain." I would like to understand your views on the "lizard brains" of the apparently 80% of beta or omega men who cannot understand without help how to get women to sleep with them. Why is this so?

Yes the subs reactive. A lot of the guys just discovered they got shafted. They're angry. We're definitely fucking reactive !

And yes we rationalise too... We have LBs, we have MBs... But we're also lucky in that we're figuring this out, and being careful about it, the people we accuse of hamstring 2nd place after women ? Other RP posters.

We're about advice for men. But we're human like anyone else.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 8 years ago | Copy Link

I'm interested in the idea that what you are calling the male "lizard brain" seems -- in what RPers seem to agree is 80% of the male population (the 80% who are not naturally good at getting women)--to regard women as human beings.

Well you are mixing two different 80:20 ratios there. We all have lizard brains. You appear to talking about the top 20% that get most girls. They have lizard brain too.

You are mistaking what drives our desires (lizard brain) with what drives action (MB). LB just generates emotions.

RP regards women as human beings, as do most of the membership. Humans with female LBs. It looks like we care nothing for the human in there, but most do. They just ignore the human and deal with lizard brains desires when they want to sleep with the human. LBs usually got more control over that decision than the human riding atop LB.

This is the emotional response that needs to be overridden in order to gain sexual access. Am I misunderstanding something?

Yes. This lizard brain stuff describes m/f human desire only. You seem to think we use LB as our processing centre to "make our moves". That's not the case. We are doing so based on our MB. We like the girl with LB, we use MB and RP to snag her. We use our MB to outwit her LB... Get her feelz on our side, make them the cheerleader in her head for us... Then scoop up the chicks that respond.

Our MBs are appealing direct to your LBs and cutting your MB out of the picture as much as possible.

The easiest way to do so is make yourself a top 20 male. Lift, groom, game etc.

Otherwise the whole exercise of teaching them game and getting them to better themselves physically would literally not exist? This is what is confusing to me.

Because you are confusing the target system (female LBs) with the source system (male MBs using RP algorithms that hit female LBs).

Our LB just says "she hot"... Our rational brains and RP take it from there.

It's not the idea that this can be overridden; of course it can. I am questioning why this state exists to begin with, if it is so utterly counter to what actually works in terms of seducing women. It would appear by your assessment of women's lizard brains that for them, the "feels" is a fine state of affairs for maximizing reproductive potential: e.g. she sees a hot man, most men are cool with sex with most women (apparently), so he sleeps with her, and everyone is happy.

Again, you are confusing the feels with action.

Your lizard brain makes the hot guy hot. He has no idea how to land him. He hands that work to MB, where the ability to think is. LB just makes you think he's hot and let's MB figure out the rest.

It's the same in reverse.

The old genetic algorithms tell you who to like, your rational brain works out how to get there.

Same for us males. We've just learnt to put new software in MB. One that works by pushing female LBs buttons, and not (as usual) attempts to push female MBs buttons.

It turns out, when you "light up" a female LB... The female MB very often just goes a long with the ride. After all, that guy is hot.

Guys stopped just being able to marry the gal next door at 18 because his daddy and her daddy made a deal. Normal village society broke down. Men had to have game.

This is interesting because I see users here and in TRP talking about how there is no male hegemony, that women were never "oppressed," etc, but if this is so, why were women betrothed to the boy next door who may or may not have had game, just because her daddy and his daddy made a deal?

Because that's the way it was. Guys didn't need game. There were 3 marriageable girls in the village. He was going to get one. Girls didn't need game either. There was no sexual marketplace with a few million competitors. There was Sally, Maisy and Dolly which one do you want to propose to ?

Few guys needed game. Then the world changed. Guys needed good game now. The women could choose from a thousand guys, and unless you were in the top 200 you were largely just "settling material" guys had to develop game. The sexual marketplace became very fierce for us.

I this new SMP women could always get laid or get a guy... Guys could not without game, they'd end up Virgin neckbeards.. So we invented and developed game.

It doesn't appear that TRP can have it both ways: either males had hegemony in the past, and thus didn't need TRP tactics, or they didn't, and 80% of dudes just didn't ever get laid, which I think we both can agree is probably not the case (a quick glance at marriage records vs population records certainly bears out that most adults of either sex in most time periods since these records have existed will show that marriage is the most common way to be in the world if one lived to adulthood).

I'm trying to explain why that is. When you are 18, cannot leave the village, and your choice is Sally, Dolly and Maisy... Who needs game ? Chat to them all. Propose to the nice one. She's only got a choice of you, Jack and Robert. Everyone pairs off quite naturally. Maybe the first one turns you down. You try the second. Nope. Settle for third, she's happy to take you. Marriage 1.0 for life takes hold.

Now consider the new sexual marketplace he's dumped in. A million girls, chased by a million guys. He approaches Sally ... "Why should I go out with you ? I went on two dates last week, both guys hotter than you"... He approaches Maisy "Lol. I got 25 OKCupid messages right here. Half are from guys hotter than you". He approaches Dolly "Not looking for a hubby right now I'm having fun. Come back in 10 years with your blue balls".

Now he needs game to get laid. He's got to be in the top 20% of that million to get a good wife. Even when he does it's marriage 2.0 and he needs the game to keep her happy for 30 years, lest he gets divorce raped.

Many guys are sad. They never knew they'd need game. Daddy didn't tell them. They discover RP... Problem solved. They are now the guy Sally will date, the OK Cupid message Maisy will return, the guy hot enough to persuade dolly off the cock carousel. And 100 other women too.

Now they are the prize. Their women problems are over. They deal with female LBs now. Now they are picking between the girls with the hots for them, between hundreds of them. Now it's up to them what they want to do.. LTR, spin plates, ONS, marriage... No ones turning their dates down anymore.

They got game. They in LBs 20%.

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The temporal lobe is passing the info (in this case memories) and LB is deciding, with no conscious input, how you should feel about those.

I wouldn't say that either. Memory is largely what defines how you feel about someone. When you are younger, you learn that "x" trait is attractive. As an adult, you see "x" trait and you know it's attractive. The amygdala is responsible for the feedback route that reinforces love, lust, or both, but it is not the area of the brain making decisions or determining who is attractive.

The lower brain area is responsible for "sex drive" (the want to have sex), sexual orientation, as well as the habitual nature of sex and love. For instance, if women didn't have what you call the "mammalian brain," they might just screw every guy that crossed their path, but only if their sex drive was active for whatever reason. There would be nothing telling them who is attractive.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'd say the crucial point about the concept I am calling lizard brain is that you have no conscious control over his actions. Now if we're talking neuroscience we can start picking out brain structures and arguing whether it's this one or that one, whether that's a repotllian hangover or a newer addition and so on. One or the other of us might even be right.

I think what I'm wedded to here ~deep breath~ is the notion of lack of conscious control of emotion, emotion being generated by unconscious deterministic algorithms, all of which are genetic either in full execution or in "learning process" specification, that are discoverable and usable by men wishing to invoke those emotional responses towards them.

That's the definition of the concept I am calling lizard brain. I may have to add to, or take away, from this in light of other comments.

I think that this concept is very closely related to old areas of the brain, proto-mammalian or reptilian, but what do I know ? When I say "Lizard Brain" to an RP guy he gets the idea. It's good shorthand.

I have also conceded that there are two means of being attracted (alpha and beta) and the first is LB and the second is MB. If there was no LB they'd screw for beta. Alpha wouldn't come into it. Take LB out.... Whoosh, there goes the need for good genes he drives into you with emotion. Neckbeard who is really ace at ironing and shit and has a bit of cash could take home the dead cool chick.

The more women who don't respond to LB, or don't have one, the more extremely happy and overjoyed neck beards you are going to get having sex.

What's more those guys will get married and be fine as big fat bastards. Because the fit pool guy ain't so fit no more. She's not feeling strangely drawn to that masculine guy who just seems so fun and confident and, Ya know, handsome. In this world, he doesn't have to fear him at all.

Do you think that's our world ?

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Pardon my French, but no shit. Obviously we don't have much control over what we're attracted to. Attraction cannot be negotiated. It's either there or it isn't. I've never heard anyone dispute this.

I think what I'm wedded to here ~deep breath~ is the notion of lack of conscious control of emotion

Emotions can be controlled or suppressed, but they cannot be changed. I agree.

emotion being generated by unconscious deterministic algorithms, all of which are genetic either in full execution or in "learning process" specification, that are discoverable and usable by men wishing to invoke those emotional responses towards them.

There is practically zero biological or neurological evidence for this claim. Attraction has a massive learned component, so it can vary widely between individuals. In fact, it varies much more between women than between men. Sure, there are likely genetic origins to some of these facets of attraction, but they are much much broader than you think. They are so broad, that no specific algorithms can be generated to successfully attract even most women.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Going to the meat, where we do not agree.

There is practically zero biological or neurological evidence for this claim.

I believe there is strong evidence for this claim. I cannot claim neurological evidence but I can claim biological and evidence from General human understanding I am sure we share.

Why are girls attracted to hot guys ?

Because emotions genetically programmed to occur towards evolutionary fit mates occur. That's what lust is. A human description of a genetically programmed urge. The urge can be controlled, but not prevented.

What's more the rational brain does and can provide info back. A human description of that process is sometimes this works and Feelz fade, sometimes it does not and Feelz remain. I am describing that as MB informing LB and that unconscious process "making its mind up" to continue Feelz or not. You can talk, but he often don't listen.

I'd also maintain that when he changes his mind... It is very often due to information important to his genetic objectives but not important to the rationale for the decision used by your conscious brain.

Attraction has a massive learned component, so it can vary widely between individuals.

Yes. I'd say almost all that component may well be in lizard brain. A lot of those genetic programmes he's running in there say "if X, do Y. If A, do B". So he learns, but the program that learns is common.

Some also occurs in MB. Women learn there too, to ignore or not ignore the feels, to moderate their attraction. They just can't consciously change the Feelz. Lizard brain, their unconscious emotional deterministic brain, will do that if the lemons line up.

In fact, it varies much more between women than between men.

Agreed. We just don't care as we're not pulling men. Even complex variations can be worked out. And although they are more complex than men, they ain't magic. Rational brains can work a lot out, consistently applied, and well motivated.

Sure, there are likely genetic origins to some of these facets of attraction, but they are much much broader than you think.

I don't think they are. I think that we are animals, and like all animals deal with our evolutionary heritage every day. A lot of that heritage is burned so deep, occurs so completely in our unconscious, that we are almost entirely unaware of its effects.

The girl behind the counter is just hot. This girl attracts me more than that girl, cos she's nicer somehow. This guy is someone worth shagging because he's fun and interesting and confidant and tall, fuck my usual rules tonight.

Our lives are so pervasively mediated by these unconscious actions, that so often by pure chance appear to be evolutionary excellent actions.

They are so broad, that no specific algorithms can be generated to successfully attract even most women.

Ha. That really is a good one. Shortest algorithm I know ?

Go Lift, bro.

Id say that ones good for influencing about 40% of female mammal brains, and about 80% of female lizard brains.

Um, another algorithm.... Heuristics are fine, right ?

Initiate sex actively and confidently in a private space.

I'd say that's a good heuristic that would improve over an alternative for about 50% of female mammal brains and 80% of female lizard brains. (For safety reasons we will add "No means No" but surely it shouldn't really need to be mentioned to a human being).

You can't negotiate desire ?

Assume she's a cheaty, cheaty, cheater ? (Another heuristic, but useful for some guys who have had a series of cheaty, cheaty, cheaters)

Now consider what happens when you have generated hundreds of algorithms. Many heuristic. Some actually based on solid methodological understanding.

All of which work. Only, say, 75% of each work on any individual woman. It's just a different 75% for each gal (individuality !).

What would that look like. How would they style their sub ?

I'm guessing they'd pick the colour red, and probably do some kinda metaphor about taking pharmaceuticals to try and get their point across.

[–]CFRProflcopter( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Would you be willing to share that evidence?

Why are girls attracted to hot guys?

Because emotions genetically programmed to occur towards evolutionary fit mates occur. That's what lust is. A human description of a genetically programmed urge. The urge can be controlled, but not prevented.

What's "hot" though? It changes from generation to generation. There are a few things that stay the same, but the majority of what humans find attractive has a learned component.

Nope. All of this is stored in memory, mostly in the temporal lobe. It is not genetic, it is learned. You see something as a child, you are told it is attractive, then when you see those things in adulthood you associate them with sex.

I disagree completely. There's a world of evidence to suggest that many of the things we find attractive are not at all tied to evolution. In the 1700s, it was attractive to be fat. In the 1900s, it was attractive to be thinner. These wide swings in body shape preference suggest that only the broads strokes are genetic; think waist, hip, shoulder ratios, symmetrical faces, broad sociability, ect.

Ha. That really is a good one.

Just to confirm, we're talking about all women, across cultures, all ages 18 to 100+, right? No, I don't think you can create an algorithm to attract all women.

That's too broad. Some women like men with "runners bodies," some women like body builders. At a certain point, lifting can be counter productive. Your other algorithms are too broad as well.

If you narrow your search for women into specific groups, you could probably create reliable algorithms. For instance, if you target women from ages 25 to 30 who play tennis, you could probably create a decent algorithm to attract 50-60% of them.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to have to say, look around you.

Humans are a pair bonding species. They have all the drives of pair bonding species. They have other stuff on top, but it's all there. It's all unconsciously mediated.

Do you honestly feel you know why you dig that girl but not this one ? If you agree you do not truly know why ...

Then if you do not, do you notice patterns in why you like that girl ? Aren't those patterns astonishingly more likely than pure random chance to be genetically selected for markers of fitness ?

Do you really instinctively dig the unsymmetrical fat girl much more often than the symmetrical thing girl in a random distribution ? I bet it's non random. I bet it's fairly predictably genetic.

So some genetic program... Could be in your fucking earlobe for all I care... Is jerking your strings.

We've agreed (if you've followed) he's unconscious, he provides the Feelz, and he does this in an uncanny fashion that keeps recurring. It keeps making you do moves genes would heavily approve of.

You just naturally and unconsciously show that submissive posture to the boss. You aren't rationally thinking about it.

That girl catches your eye, but not the other.

The girls all seem to like the guy all the other girls like.

All these little genetic programs, running, all around, visibly.

All unconscious actions, taken because an emotion drove the action, all remarkably predictable to, say, a primate ethnologist (? Got that term wrong ?).

Yes, part of the good genetic algorithms are algorithms like "do what everyone else is doing, that's safe". So all babies and humans learn as they grow what the norm is. But the genetic algorithm didn't just set them running like a wind up toy. Its still there. Guiding with emotion your whole life, sometimes the right way, sometimes the wrong.

All the time.. Using emotion... And deciding by algorithms that just keep, by pure unbelievable luck, looking an awful lot like similar genetic strategies familiar from the animal kingdom. Genetically programmed there too. Almost like, we are animals as well as humans.

ope. All of this is stored in memory, mostly in the temporal lobe. It is not genetic, it is learned. You see something as a child, you are told it is attractive, then when you see those things in adulthood you associate them with sex.

Is that what happens to the gay guys ? Do they learn to be gay ? Who teaches them to go for the moustache and the leather jacket, but not the skinny and effeminate ?

It's almost like they just know somehow. With no one teaching them. They seem to know what they want, like an algorithm was guiding them. In this case, if that algorithm is genetic, it has fucked up big time. But they still know what they want, without being taught.

So did I. So did you.

We moderated that in line with society... But ... Funny enough, everyone else modified their behaviour the exact same way, so we all just kinda moved together, like we follow that "keep with the herd" algorithm. Like we're all following these emotion things in a predictable direction.

I'd argue that maybe in the 1700s people's genetic survival might have been assisted by a bit of fat ! Lizard brain ain't totally stupid. If everyone's starving to death, he might take a penchant for a fatty.

Who knows. I'd be disinclined to take seriously evidence based on the depictions made for the rich. Given how incredibly rare that is as a percentage of these populations.

I think that desire has been remarkably consistent. If randomness or personal whim held... They'd be as many fatty societies as "sexy girl" (modern definition) societies... As many where short men were prized, as tall... As many where the ugly were prized, as the handsome... As many where the submissive male/dominant female prized as the reverse.

What I see are 99:1 ratios. All, strangely, in a way that, strangely, science would seem to predict based on genetic, biological and evolutionary findings for other animals.

Good point. I will go with all women with an active sexual life. Either physical or purely mental. Not talking about the aesexuas, either by age or inclination.

That's too broad. Some women like men with "runners bodies," some women like body builders.

No. Some MBs like runners, and some like builders. The MBs are split all sorts of ways. They like all,sorts of different things.

Genetic LB ? He wants muscle. The ability to fight not flight. Because someone who can fight can defend baby, while someone who will fly won't. So almost all LBs like it. I think I said 80%. Your genetic algorithms are gonna start poking your brain with emotions.

A lot of the girls who report "not liking body builders bodies" will pick the lifter over the marathon runner in a lineup. I'd say LB almost always picks him, and she decides whether to override or not... And mainly decides not.

At a certain point, lifting can be counter productive. Your other algorithms are too broad as well.

Oh yeah, they get broad when you do them IN THREE WORDS. Come read the 1001 lifting posts on our sub. They make me want to scoop my eyeballs out with a melon baller. But if you want us to do it in more than three words, including the warning that you can get tooooooo big, go check our million words out.

What do you think we're doing ? What do you think our algorithm

"Try out our stuff. See what works for you. Stick with that."

Actually enforces in the real world ? Guys trying out stuff, and sticking with what worked for the women from ages 25 to 30 who play tennis when they go to the tennis club... Then trying out stuff with women from ages 20-25 who work in retail and sticking with that for them ... He don't have to try hard, he's got 100 things to try and all women respond to 75.

It's also worth noting that he's lighting them up like a Christmas tree, if guys are trying out 60 things, with a 75% success rate, he just flicked not just one "like me lizard brain" switch. He flicked on forty five. Lizard brain is screaming at her. The plate spinners spend most of their time disbelieving how easy it gets when you move from flicking 10 to flicking 40. The girls go nuts, it's not even a challenge anymore.

All going straight at LB. A touchdown run behind all of MBs defences.

The genetic algorithms are common. The good ones spread a lot. You can see them all, you play them, you learn what works, for 95% of us you have no idea this is what's going on, you're just following our heuristics.

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Yes. In a scientific context this is so generalised as to be near meaningless for the purpose of neuroscientific research. It's basically baby speak.

However, out here among the proles... This is useful stuff that gets guys laid. We aren't interested in being 100% right and proving so in a peer reviewed article... We're interested in being 90% right, because that's enough to get laid often and well.

And because neuroscience Phd's are thin on the ground... That means baby talk. No one would read the neuroscience version, only 1 in 100 could even understand the majority of the terms.

I ain't doing neuroscience here... I'm explaining in baby talk for the proles so they can get some idea of how brains work. I ain't Stephen Pinker or Noam Chomsky (in linguistics mode).

Why don't you do a proper neuroscience OP. I'll willingly join that discussion. Might be only you and me though. Not sure many others would follow the terms.

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[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's not a neuroscientific argument. Nor have I claimed so.

It is an evolution and genetics argument. I never claimed neurological support for any structure.

See some of my answers to /u/CFRProflcopter .

I am not tying this to any brain structure, so much as a mental structure. I am agnostic on software versus hardware. Lizard Brain was a way to try and describe that quickly. CFRP got the longer explanation.

I am not going to sit here and try and tell a neuroscientist he's wrong on neuroscience. I am not sure I've ever read a solely neuroscientific book, although many have touched there.

I'll listen to you on brain structure... Why don't you listen to me on human behaviour, particularly where mediated by genetics or evolutionary built systems. (Be they hardware, software or magic-ware as the religious believe)

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See, there's an argument... it wasn't so hard was it ?

Since the limbic system doesn't operate exactly the same across the population, you're only trying to locate a small subset of the population for whom it operates in a way that you can predict and then try to manipulate.

What makes you believe the limbic system varies so widely ?

It should be harshly evolutionarily preserved... People who "fail to feel fear" generally die young. This would tend to be a very heavy pressure standardising limbic systems. As would the ferocious competition to reproduce (if my limbic system is only 90% as effective as his, I'm less likely to reproduce, eventually the better limbic systems win out).

So... What is the argument for high variation in limbic systems ?

You would expect, from a genetic standpoint, for them to be highly standardized.... Thats what we see today... Plenty of people fear snakes and heights.... Very few people fear lollipops and back rubs... When people do not conform to this norm we recognise them as outliers...

"What do you mean you have an inherent terror of back rubs ? Thats fucking weird"

as against

"You have a fear of snakes ? Oh, no biggie. About half the people I know have that"

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]kick6Red Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wubooAlpha Blue Pill1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well no.

I am looking for people to disagree... Because you only learn things from people who disagree with you.

I rarely, if ever, learn things from people that agree with me.

Now, I'm not saying that I always learn just because you disagree. That depends on the intelligence you show in your disagreement... But you need that disagreement to learn something new.

So, had I posted this over on TRP I'd get 50 first class brains agreeing, and would learn nothing new.

Posting it here, I'll get 50 brains disagreeing... I'll pick out the ones I consider first class... And modify my views in future to be closer to reality based on their criticisms.

Thats basically it.

Oh, and debating stuff is fun. I like debating stuff. It is definitely much more fun than posting an idea and just agreeing with everyone that swings by.

You going to try and disagree with the arguments ? Or just have a damn good whine about the fact that I even asked the question ?

[–]relationshipdownvotethe blue pill is a suppository-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Lizard doesn't feel emotion, you are right. Mammal brain feels the emotions.

Lizard Brain creates those emotions, it doesn't feel them.

Lizard Brain don't get "scared" when he sees a snake. He pushes fear into mammal brain when he sees a snake. Mammal brain then "gets scared".

The "freeze" you talk of is a flight or fight response. Lizard brain pushes fear in. The deer freezes whilst it works out whether to fight or flee based on further info. The freeze is important. Some animals chase instinctively, some don't.

He freezes when he feels fear... Because he is trying to work out whether you are a snake or a puma... Snake ? Flee.... Puma? Bit more complicated (is he near or far ? Is he looking direct at me, or not ?)

Poor old lizard brain don't know about cars yet. Hasn't been bred in long enough yet. He doesn't know that freezing in a headlight is the worst thing to do.... Yet. Cars are just too new.

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)-1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

OK, the names are just names. We can call LB something else if you want, the points won't change.

I'd also argue against this from a second direction...

I bet the guy lizards who get the girl lizards... Are the guy lizards who have the biggest muscles. Its a marker of evolutionary fitness. Lizards only work with that, nothing else. On basic principle, this is what the studies would show.

Not going to go get those studies... Thats your job... You proposed "Lizards do not show muscle". If you want to prove that in the context of this discussion find me studies that show "Female lizards do not have a sexual preference for larger more muscular male lizards".

Like I say, it's largely pointless... LB is a term... We can call it "Evolutionarily wired emotional response system" if you like and remove the lizards from the deal.

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Title	Can we discuss human sexual response in terms of "Lizard Brain" and "Mammal Brain" ? Is this useful ?
Author	TheGreasyPole
Upvotes	2
Comments	74
Date	May 5, 2015 12:55 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/34xpuc/can_we_discuss_human_sexual_response_in_terms_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-we-discuss-human-sexual-response-in-terms-of.282333 https://theredarchive.com/post/282333