Captain and First Mate: A healthy Dynamic?

haunting-you · 2018-04-29T14:47:00+00:00

from what i remember you saying about your relationship, it’s pretty different from most here, making it a less-than-great example.

i don’t think it’s unhealthy if everyone is happy and on board with it, but i’d still never want it. men here claim not to understand why, but just try asking them why they’re so disgusted at the idea of being first mate instead 😂

SmeggingRight · 2018-04-29T07:22:29+00:00

I don't consider it healthy unless each member of a couple likes it that way. Then it's healthy. So, it might be healthy for you guys, but not for others.

Also: that's a damned weird and stilted text conversation, dude.

MediumAnalyst · 2018-04-29T01:52:36+00:00

It seems very clunky and unnatural but nice, functional, to me. from a normie perspective I would say any woman starting by saying you are a leader seems really Stockholm syndromey; if i was a non purple pill person i would think she is being abused. But i know the dynamic so i just think it seems nice!

DaphneDK42 · 2018-04-29T02:21:11+00:00

I kinda wonder why you bother taking on all this leadership responsibility and work. I have developers which I manage in my work hours, I absolutely zero interest in managing anybody on my free time. I don't want some girl cramming my life. If women aren't self-driving and emotionally adult, they have to go. We have different roles to fill, if she isn't playing her part competently what need have I for her.

TRP says women are the most responsible teenagers in the house. Now, I've had real actual girl teenagers in the house - and if my wife started to act anything remotely like that I'd have kicked her out.

planejane · 2018-04-29T10:11:12+00:00

Well, your conversation sounds really weird, but if it works for you, chase that bliss, man.

I think what the C/FM relationship WAS described as is very different than what it's described as now. In the original incarnation? Yeah I think it's a pretty reasonable, functional model for a significant portion of the heterosexual population. Probably ~40% of people would be content if their partner conducted themselves according to those roles, I'd speculate.

I think that number is far larger than the number of individuals who would conduct themselves according to their role, though. Both sides have gotten selfish and untrusting.

Those guys you mention in another comment? The ones you feel sorry for that they can't find a good woman? They're not captains. They don't take care of themselves, let alone have the wisdom to recognize when their desires must be shelved for the sake of the relationship.

goatismycopilot · 2018-04-29T01:56:33+00:00

I am not clear on why anybody in a happy marriage would be concerned about getting validation from PPD regarding the dynamic. I don't think it is weird to have a captain/first mate marriage I think it is weird to have that dynamic and then ask a bunch of strangers if they think it is okay.

sublimemongrel · 2018-04-29T02:16:10+00:00

For certain couples, sure. Why wouldn't it be?

Young_Oryx · 2018-04-29T03:11:07+00:00

I don't like the captain/first mate analogy mostly because of its overuse on reddit and the connections to pillsphere.

That said, I do believe in Biblical marriage, which puts husbands at the head of the family in a leadership role. The difference is that Christian husbands submit to God rather than following their own selfish desires. Husbands strive to love their wives "just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her."

And from the female side, wives submit to their husbands as the church does to Christ. The Bible verses in my flair are relevant here. Here's a little snippet:

¹ Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, ² when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. ³ Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. ⁴ Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.

This is close to C/FM, but I think this is a far healthier dynamic than a secular model of captain/first mate. The "health" comes from keeping God at the center of the marriage as both people try to serve one another better and more selflessly.

Willow-girl · 2018-04-29T11:29:11+00:00

No. Adults have agency and I'm suspicious of any circumstance that encourages them to surrender it. I can see why a person might not want to be a fully-functioning, mature, responsible adult -- it's difficult and uncomfortable at times, sure -- but it's necessary, IMO.

Two fully-functioning adults who are committed to their joint mission will generally accomplish more than one adult dragging an overgrown child behind him. Especially if the 'child' uses her "First Mate" status as a cover for passive-aggression -- for contributing nothing in the way of decision-making, but being quick to jump on every mistake made by the "Captain."

wtknight · 2018-04-29T02:22:28+00:00

No. I personally think it's better when both parties are honest about their desires and then come to a compromise, even if both people don't exactly what they want and aren't completely happy. Of course, a compromise could be one person gets what they want for one thing and the other person gets what they want for something else, as well.

But if one person wants to cede some power and doesn't have a problem with it, then whatever. I just wouldn't want to be in a relationship like this.

solorathain · 2018-04-29T02:56:06+00:00

Well, if they actually want that dynamic, then sure it can be healthy.

But there are plenty of men that don't want to be a fucking babysitter to their girlfriend, and plenty of women that don't want to be told what to do by their boyfriend.

haunting-you · 2018-04-29T09:48:41+00:00

automod is being lazy... can you make a small edit to your OP so it shows up?

carefreevermillion · 2018-04-29T02:18:38+00:00

My relationship is similar to the Captain and First Mate dynamic (and unless I'm unaware of something it's a good relationship), but we're both pretty red pilled. For a (mostly) red couple though, it's more egalitarian than most.

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-04-29T10:07:20+00:00

i dont know why you males want to lead women as if we dont know what we want and how to get it. yes, you have the advantage of being brought up that way (masculine , competitive) but it doesnt mean you are set up to be leading. no, this dynamic doesnt sit well with me. at the end of the day, Cpt. just takes his wife's opinion into consideration (if ever, mind you, this is TRP bullcrap), but his word is the last. i dont think i'd like and respect such male. id grow resentful.

ElderSign · 2018-04-29T10:29:24+00:00

The hubby and I have been married for well over 10 years. We trust each other that any decision made by either on their own won't harm us as a couple. On most shared decisions neither really cares (eg. the "what to have for dinner" question), so whoever bothers to voice something first has in practice decided it. For the rest, it's usually very obvious who cares more, so compromising is simple. It's definitely not a "captain and first mate" dynamic, but it might as well have been: if either of us were the captain trusting their first mate, things would have gone just the same so far.

But I still think the C/FM dynamic is unhealthy, because neither should have the upper hand in the big questions. Maybe one of you thinks that a house or other investment is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity but the other thinks it's a scam; maybe you fundamentally disagree on whether to circumcise your son; maybe due to tight finances you need additional income, and it's either you giving up pursuing your business or her giving up being a full-time mom. Something that's very important to the both of you, without chance of compromise.

If you choose your partner in part based on shared values, you can go 10+ years without encountering such a disagreement. I'm hoping we'll never have one. I'm pretty sure my parents have gone for 40+ years without one. But just the knowledge that one opinion would be overruled in such a case would harm the relationship, for something that may never happen. And for the little issues, you don't need a captain unless one of you is a lazy slob, drama queen, narcissist, or otherwise unable to compromise on minor things, in which case why would you want to be in a relationship with them in the first place.

Gravel_Roads · 2018-04-29T11:43:56+00:00

I'd say it's possible to be a healthy dynamic, but as soon as you start delegating either role to someone based on their gender rather than their temperament/personality strengths, you're already losing the purpose of the dynamic.

I prefer "Take Turns Fronting" model. In some circumstances, I am far more knowledgeable, and I prefer to call the shots for everyone's sake -- Things like driving, where we stay on vacations, when we wake up/start vacations, some types of cleaning projects, care of the pets. My partner is glad to defer to me, and follows my lead very naturally.

In turn, my partner is extremely organized and keeps to a stricter schedule, so they tend to plan our daily schedule, keep track of when we do our taxes and when we go to movies ect.

I would be exhausted to have to be "Captain" all the time, and I would be resistant to be expected to be "First Mate" all the time. I feel most couples are a little bit of both, rather than either/or.

rainisthelife · 2018-04-29T16:34:20+00:00

No. Sounds unhealthy.

Offhisgame · 2018-04-29T23:42:17+00:00

You sure you arent gay? If you actually said that you might want to try

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-29T01:48:33+00:00

This is classic TRP but does PPD consider it a healthy relationship dynamic?

Does it really matter? I mean even the best advice is effectively for only so long until boredom and staleness sets in, loneliness impels people to branch out and find new ways of engaging in their existing relationships or find new relationships with different personalities who interact in new and unexpected ways.

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-30T16:02:44+00:00

Your wife does not know that you are red pill??

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-05-04T22:21:26+00:00

If you are both onboard, and you are considered competent, than in most cases it would be the ideal relationship.

If you aren't competent, well.. I sure hope she takes the reigns for both of your sakes.

[deleted] · 2018-04-29T07:08:48+00:00

It is not only healthy, it is necessary. And it is the most "free" arrangement one could get between man and a woman. I'm very happy you have such good relationship.

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-04-29T02:15:45+00:00

You can't have two equal people in a relationship. Good she acknowledges it. Someone is always a couple steps ahead or leading more than the other person. It's also usually the man.

This is a healthy dynamic though. But the side effect is that if things go wrong you're gonna be the one that's blamed like most men are with everything anyways.

couldbemage · 2018-04-29T03:35:11+00:00

This is how things work with my submissive partners. It's been way more successful than my egalitarian relationships.

[deleted] · 2018-04-29T10:21:29+00:00

It's the ONLY healthy dynamic. Egalitarianism happens when women are assholes and men are pushovers.

Title	Captain and First Mate: A healthy Dynamic?
Author	Entropy-7
Upvotes	1
Comments	130
Date	April 29, 2018 12:54 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8fo3db/captain_and_first_mate_a_healthy_dynamic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/captain-and-first-mate-a-healthy-dynamic.262714 https://theredarchive.com/post/262714