CMV: If you even think about "how" to date at all, you've already lost

901735 · 2020-05-17T10:37:07+00:00

Nah, disagree. It's not lost, it can be the beginning of the win. Just needs a little bit of practice.

Social is a muscle. Needs training.

2020-05-17T11:26:42+00:00

You're confusing "normal" people with people who's lives were shaped in the most perfect way possible to allow them to be natural daters. These people grow up with high social acceptance and are directed towards things which turn out to be attractive by the time they start dating. They are a minority.

Most people have to actually think about how they look, how they talk, what they do, the career they choose etc... No shit that tall, handsome, socially accepted and rich with a great career choice is a natural dater. Of course this is an extremity but this is your average "blue-pilled" alpha, as we call them who don't understand why they're so successful with women and think it's easy because they've never had to try. Their upbringing has moulded them into never having to struggle with relationships so they don't need guidance.

People who use strategies should eventually throw away the book but needing it for a short period of time is normal for the majority.

snuskbusken · 2020-05-17T10:52:33+00:00

This is incredibly naive.

Claim 1: “normal” people simply date and get laid without ever considering strategy.

Reality: even people who’ve never heard of PUA, TRP, FDS etc discuss dating strategies with their friends and family. How do you think people learn about dating? Like they learn anything else: through socialisation and the informal sharing of knowledge.

Claim 2: for many people it’s impossible not to get laid

I guess this depends on your definition of “many”, but there is a very very large number of both men and (fewer) women who struggle significantly to find sexual partners, let alone committed relationships.

The “normal people” you are talking about (who never worry about love or dating) simply do not exist. Human relationships are complex and messy and incredibly important: they don’t just happen, and people aren’t “broken” for looking to improve their chances.

relish5k · 2020-05-17T13:38:46+00:00

[deleted]

Slyfer_Seven · 2020-05-17T13:43:34+00:00

Not true. People don't take it to the degree of TRP or FDS, but they absolutely have tactics and strategies while also discuss what works and doesn't work. Ever heard of wing-manning? That's a tactic. Jumping on a grenade? Tactic. Ever heard a sentence like, "all you gotta do is go over there, buy her a drink and..."? You get the idea.

Bringing more girls to a party to even out a ratio and keep it from being a sausage fest. Strategy. Going out of town or to a new area for fresh hunting grounds. Strategy. Creating themes amongst groups to stand out from other groups, to create a scene when you roll through. Strategy

They have discussions, they just don't sound like a reddit post, but pregame antics and guidelines are talked about amongst your main dudes. Things like rubbing one out before going out so you're not jumping the first thing that moves, not being a cock block, I'm sure you've heard a phrase like " dude, you're never going to get laid if you keep doing..."

I think I've made my point. They're not called strategies or tactics, but it's what they are and a lot of "normal" people employ them in the pursuit of getting a little strange...

alessandro3ds · 2020-05-17T11:35:06+00:00

how old are you? 13

Eastuss · 2020-05-17T12:23:21+00:00

Apex fallacy.

only something like 30% of the population is actually having this life experience, the 40% best looking women and 20% best looking men. And then I do not even account for how some of these are just going to be introverts or having other mental barriers...

And hey, I never went through a self-help book, nor a guide, I experimented myself and gradually and unconsciously adjusted myself. And here I am today talking here because all the adjustments I had correlates with what other people had to do as well.

CMOAN_MAYNE · 2020-05-17T15:54:37+00:00

This is dumb

Everything in life takes practice. Why would dating be any different?

Are you really suggesting you know how to date perfectly in every situation?

Mondhalm · 2020-05-17T11:14:08+00:00

this a perfect example of a static mindset that is afraid to fail and tries to rationalize.

failing is part of learning. all these people you talk about, they do think about it too. talking with friends about your love life is analyzing and reinterpreting it, having a heartache is learning from failure. love songs, love literature, paintings, all this is is part of it. you can do it efficiently or non-efficiently, and i agree that a lot of people on here do it inefficiently. and you can do it consciously or unconsciously.

trying to shame people into feeling alone is the weirdest thing to do, though.

SeemedGood · 2020-05-17T14:41:26+00:00

There may be a significant difference between what you think is normal and what actually is normal.

For example, I used to think it was normal for girls/women to do the majority of approaching, that it was abnormal for boys/men to do most of the approaching and that if a boy/man did approach women regularly it was because he was desperate. I thought that because that was my experience with dating and it was how things rolled in my immediate social set.

As I matured, however, and started paying more attention to the experiences of those around me both by observing them directly, and listening to them recount their experiences, I began to realize that it was actually my reference point which was abnormal.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-05-17T11:18:00+00:00

Have you ever considered that maybe guys want to do better than just "normal"?

Because where I'm from its normal for girls today to be single moms with high N counts. The normal guys I see are getting shit on. Being normal just means getting a 6. Stepping up your game a little can get you an 8.

I feel sorry for normal guys today. No I want to be better than normal.

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89320420934 · 2020-05-17T13:47:00+00:00

I can agree that the inability to find relationships probably shows a bit of a mental issue. However, normal people do also discuss dating strategies, so I'm not sure what your point with was on that one. Maybe people don't discuss it if they've never tried to hook up randomly and have always organically found relationships? I highly doubt this is truly the "norm" though.

How old are you and are you male/female?

I'm sure it is more common for men to look up dating strategies and for younger people. I mean, I knew people in high school/college who didn't seem to have any trouble dating on their own, but yet still did some research on tactics. So, I'm not sure if the premise that everyone who looks at dating strategies is a "defective unit" or "anomaly" is true. I'll acknowledge that it does show some type of mental issue though.

flamingoinghome · 2020-05-17T14:35:03+00:00

LOL, dude, no.

You don't have to join an online community or buy a self-help book, but people don't just date and fuck on pure instinct like swallows building nests. They ask their friends or maybe older siblings for advice. They don't obsess over "dating strategy", but they talk a whole bunch about how to ask out/ get the attention of their particular crush. They don't adopt weird universal ideologies, but they talk and think about copying cool people to look cool themselves. They don't turn dating into a fucking video game where they rack up points, but they exchange tips on which bars have lots of attractive single people.

All of this is stuff that literally everyone does.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-05-17T15:16:23+00:00

This is a pretty dumb argument and operates on the assumption that everyone has the same experiences and same upbringing in life. Maybe even the assertion that every social aspect of our species is innate within us and if you don't have it for some reason, you're a weirdie and a failure to the species.

Some things about us are innate but a large portion of our traits are learned. If we have no experience with something, we don't learn it. That includes everything social. Humans have to learn to speak the languages that are being spoken around them, and all things social are built upon that.

This is essentially "The Blue-Pill Users Guide To Being Alive."

bionix90 · 2020-05-17T19:04:23+00:00

In fact, for many people it's practically impossible not to get laid.

For many women, you mean.

MrHerbSherman · 2020-05-17T19:35:13+00:00

Nah there are definitely tips and tricks that can improve performance

It’s like yes I could figure out how to do lots of things via guess and test but why? That’s an incredibly ineffecient way to learn things, particularly if you have some sort of good reference material to consult

Physiologist21 · 2020-05-17T22:51:11+00:00

This is uh...patently ridiculous.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-05-17T22:56:40+00:00

I think this is a bit harsh. It's very Red Pillian and abrupt and I like that. But some people sometimes need a bit of help in certain departments. Some people desperately need a personal trainer and dietician. Others, need someone how to help them groom and dress themselves - or just get glasses and a hairstyle that is - perhaps less tragic. Others are either far too shy or shamefully overconfident and loud in social situations. Some guys, for example, are SO SUCKY with women I'm a guy and I can't imagine how being so placating and agreeable must turn a woman off.

For myself, you could have called my sexual strategy organic I suppose - but I was aware of it. I was aware that I was an average looking dude so I had to maximize my strengths to compare with other more better looking dudes. I hit the weights alot, and I think looking like I could pull the arms off most other men in the room had it's advantages. Do you think guys never think about this stuff? MOST men think of this stuff. Anyways, I would lift, run, dress well, keep the house and car very clean and shiny (ready for company 100% of the time). Made my bed. And I spent lots of time online setting up dates, or suggesting activities with my peer group where there would at least be SOME CHANCE of some single women being present. Going to a poker came with 3 couples... great way to never meet anyone.

So, I think my own path was quite organic, but to suggest I was not consciously AWARE of it - naw. I was totally aware of it. That's why I did those things religiously. Because I liked getting laid by decent looking women on the regular. And I did. If I was not in an LTR, I was on a ONS binge between relationships.

And damn, some days I hit above my weight. Maximizing your look and having social skills - it's not going to make a bridge troll into a prince, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt.

OddButton6 · 2020-05-19T10:12:07+00:00

OP does have a point though. Regular people I know in real life does not go on Reddit to look for help with dating (male and female). Dating for them is easy, because they aren’t weird and is attractive. Hell regular basics doesn’t even know what Reddit is.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-05-17T14:10:42+00:00

Reddit will tell you this is a luxury only reserved for chads. But again, reddit is full of.....redditors.

My experience tends to align with yours. In my experience, things just happen. I don't chase women, I don't play tactics, I don't have a book of rules or follow any gurus... I simply pick my battles.

When my friends are baffled about how I don't get rejected by women and I seem to make them chase me instead of me doing it, the explanation is simple: I would be a chad if I had 20 girls chasing me. I actually get 1 girl to show deep interest in me every six months or so, and then I take my chances. This is how it looks like I am chad from the outside, but if I was to go on a slutty weekend fucking rampage, I would most likely fail miserably.

I know my place, I know my market, and I play my own game farily well.

THAT SAID, do need to be an overall balance, productive member of society that shows skills, potential and that is not obese.

MisterJose · 2020-05-17T11:00:55+00:00

Normal, well-adjusted people don't discuss dating tactics or sexual tactics. They just... date. They simply get laid without having to come up with an "strategy". Normal people just... have sex. Organically, they don't even think how they're getting action because it's a natural process without any bumps in the way.

I cannot imagine what kind of life you have lead to believe this.

First off, I can't think of a single social group I've known, male, female, or mixed, that did not give each other advice on dating. Parents give advice to their children. Friends give it to each other. You really have never been a part of that?

Second, I don't want to give you a biography, but suffice to say I was a virgin until 24 or 25. Before that time I interacted with any number of women. Hung out with two major social groups, each containing several women, for years. Went to tons of house parties in college, and interacted with women in my classes. How did I not get laid? It was ridiculously easy. Do you think I was just getting offers left and right and turning them down?

Even now...I don't know what gender you are, but do you ever go on dating sites? I can go on OKcuped and get two dozen conversations up and going pretty quickly. I could talk to those women for weeks, invest solid chunks of my free time, and wind up with not a single date from it, let alone sex. Some men can't even get those two dozen conversations in the first place, and you're trying to tell them it's impossible for them not to get laid? This is incredibly naive to the experience of a very large group of people.

the_purring_jew · 2020-05-17T14:56:28+00:00

young women spend 90% of their time discussing dating and what to do and how to respond and what did his text MEAN

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jumblesandtumbles · 2020-05-17T13:39:26+00:00

Ehhh...partial agreement. I hadn't heard of most of this stuff before coming across this sub but it's pretty common for certain aspects of dating to be discussed with friends, like if to approach and when if they're interested in someone, what to do on the first date, or the timing of certain dating milestones. Where to meet people outside of online or a bar. Stuff like that. At least I've had these discussions with friends, both male and female.

But I agree to the extent that a lot of those discussions stem from already being in the dating scene in the first place.

I don't think anyone is "lost" tho if dating doesn't come naturally to them. I think (tbf I haven't wanted to deep dive into either RP or FDS or whatever else is out there, so I can't say for sure) that at the core of a lot of these strategies seem to be learning to value oneself and developing confidence, which is never a bad thing. Unfortunately, there also seems to be a corresponding devaluation of the opposite sex also advocated for, at least by adherents here, if not within the actual philosophy, which I don't agree with. Anyway, self-improvement is a positive thing. If some people need some training wheels and smooth surfaces for awhile it doesn't mean they'll never learn to ride, it just means that it'll take them a bit longer than people who took to it naturally.

RileyGhost07 · 2020-05-17T19:46:09+00:00

I am feeling like a real pathetic loser after reading this tbh. I guess I deserve to rope

saladfingers4141 · 2020-05-17T20:37:51+00:00

Normal person here who is actively dating and getting laid and that’s not true.

How I present an OLD profile, clothes I wear, restaurants or bars I pick to go on dates, conversation topics etc are all conscious decisions I make as part of a wider sexual strategy to get laid or find a LTR. Sure I don’t read books about sexual strategy or google the red pill but acting like people just magically start dating or sleeping together without even thinking about how to date is ridiculous.

Appomattoxx · 2020-05-18T04:46:18+00:00

Can't reply because can't tell if you're male or female.

^{This never happens to me, I promise.}

I-am-the-lul · 2020-05-18T07:54:48+00:00

If you are already physically attractive and you don't suffer from any socialising issues, you most likely don't need any sort of help to be successful in dating/mating.

mashakos · 2020-05-23T19:15:25+00:00

Are you saying that people who did not have the accumulated experiences and abilities that make someone attractive can't course correct and work on themselves to get out of a rut? Bizarre opinion...

GennyX · 2020-05-17T10:42:54+00:00

Agree.

Title	CMV: If you even think about "how" to date at all, you've already lost
Author	SomeTurdInTheWind
Upvotes	21
Comments	56
Date	May 17, 2020 10:24 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gld5yd/cmv_if_you_even_think_about_how_to_date_at_all/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-if-you-even-think-about-how-to-date-at-all.665143 https://theredarchive.com/post/665143