CMV: Inviting Someone Out And Expecting Them To Pay Is Rude

Ultramegasaurus · 2017-05-11T16:42:58+00:00

So next time I ask my buddy to go for a Pizza, I'm expected to pay for him too?

Oh and about parties: they very often require the guests to bring gifts as well, e.g. a birthday gift or a wedding gift. Do women bring men who ask them out gifts? Good joke. And by the way, BYOB (bring your own booze) parties are actually really fucking common, especially among young people.

What utter horseshit. Just a lazy excuse for women to keep their privilege of not paying for dates while demanding equality.

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-05-11T16:48:09+00:00

I don't understand this argument at all... I'm not paying anyone for their company nor are they paying for mine. we're not prostitutes. for casual outings, my friends and I have always split the check. if I'm cooking for people, I appreciate them either bringing a five spot/six pack or-- if it's a weekly thing-- offering to host and cook next time. nowadays I'll comp people sometimes, especially family, but not out of obligation.

on dates (and tbf I always dated people I was already friends with) we'd rotate on and off. I'd pay for a date, then he'd pay for the next one, and so on. I had as much money as any guy I ever dated-- we were broke college kids-- so what would be the point? proving his sincerity? his masculinity? I wouldn't want to date someone with hangups like that anyway. stupid.

HugMuffin · 2017-05-11T16:48:10+00:00

I'm not sure what the expectation is for the adult world, but here in college, we generally recognize that the other is broke and we pay for ourselves. Personally, I like this system, because it means we agreed to go out to hang out, not get free food.

dakru · 2017-05-11T16:40:45+00:00

I was always taught that if you ask someone out/invite them over, the burden is on you to provide the paid-for refreshments/entertainment.

How does that work? If I see a new bar that looks interesting, I make plans and invite a couple of my friends, I'm expected to pay for all of their stuff? Does that include their transit or taxi to and from the venue?

If I had to pay for everything whenever I came up with the idea, organized it, and invited people, I would organize things much less often, if at all. Certainly I wouldn't organize larger things like day/weekend trips to a ski hill (that would get extremely expensive very fast).

Is this really how it works where you live?

wub1234 · 2017-05-11T16:58:54+00:00

I couldn't disagree more. Of course men do the asking out because women hardly ever make the first move.

I must say, though, that in Britain women almost without exception meet you halfway. I have still only paid for a first date once, and she offered to go halves, but I declined because she had gone out of her way. If I'd accepted her offer then I still wouldn't have paid for a first date in my entire life.

DesignerTom · Thu May 11 16:49:05 2017 UTC

Are you a female because this would make sense. You want to get guys to pay for you and not feel guilty.

TooloudthrowAway420 · 2017-05-11T17:46:10+00:00

This is a great example of feminists desperately clinging to female privilege. They say "whoever asks the other person on a date should pay" knowing full well that men are the ones asking 99+% of the time.

Merger-Arbitrage · 2017-05-11T18:42:06+00:00

Guy invite girl out for date (first date) = guy should pay, his idea

Couple A invites Couple B to drinks out or restaurant = split

Couple A invites Couple B for drinks at Couple A home = Couple A is obviously serving drinks/food on their dime, Couple B may want to bring a bottle of something (if they don't know each other well, especially). If I were Couple A, and Couple B brought nothing, I personally wouldn't think much less of them. I invited them over to treat them, and would expect a similar gesture in return in the future, so a small 'thanks' at that point in time wouldn't be necessary.

prodigy2throw · 2017-05-11T17:03:33+00:00

Good example of women wanting equality but not the accompanying responsibility.

If women are equal, they should plan half the dates and pay for half the stuff. If the man is planning everything, she should pay for half or is she's planning everything the man should pay for half.

But we all know that women really want to be treated like little girls so it is what it is.

TheGreasyPole · 2017-05-11T23:02:33+00:00

I don't get this.

Yes, if you invite a guest to your home you are probably committing to providing some sustenance. If my mates comes over he can expect to, say, drink tea. Or I'd offer him some sandwich, or some of dinner. Or something. Why not.

If I invite him to come meet me in the pub for night of chat, and pool..... Say... I am pretty sure no-one thinks I'm buying him beer all night... And if we go to a resteraunt, or takeaway, we just split the bill.

If your girlfriend (if your a female) rings up and says "Hey, want to get a bite to eat this eveniing" and you say "yeah, cool. See you there".... Do you sit there glaring blankly at her when the bill comes expecting her to pay ?

Thats alien to how me and my male mates go out male/male... and as I understand it how girls go out female/female.

This isn't a host/guest situation. This is a "two relatively, equal, relatively young, relatively single" adults get together in the pub situation.

Expecting a date to go dutch is a continuation of the normal arrangement and expecting the invitee to pay the invited is an anomalous exception to the normal system.

At home is different. You're the host. Thats a different system. In that system "the host" is expected to provide, with various people having various expectations (mate over for an hour=tea, for a few hours=tea+sandwich, mother-in-law for the weekend=full room and board).

Out of the house/host arrangement... going dutch with other humans is the norm that is only broken when sex is involved and then almost exclusively broken in the male has to spend money to achieve higher liklihood of sexytimes direction.

Because even when it is female/male... and no sex is involved, you're just brother and sister (say) or "friends" ... you split the bill.

If he's not splitting the bill, he's into you and he's trying to signal he's not just a "friend".

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-05-11T17:21:01+00:00

another reason women should NEVER suggest dates. if you do, and still expect him to pay, he's probably debating droppin your ass.

Robotemist · 2017-05-11T17:31:52+00:00

What's funny is half of women don't agree with this and believe a man should pay regardless. The other half agrees, but due to this rule they simply refuse to ask a man out. There is a small percentage of women who adhere and follow this rule though.

It's amazing how women reiterate that paying is such a miniscule task that men should do it willfully, but yet it's not small enough to actually be proactive to do it themselves in the first place.

czerdec · 2017-05-11T21:28:31+00:00

So, if I suggest to my friends that we should all go to our favorite bar and get drunk, am I obligated to pay for all the beers because I was the one who did the inviting?

Or is the rudeness strictly confined to restaurants?

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-05-11T16:46:40+00:00

if they don't want to pay, they should pack a picnic dinner, or go to the park

Way ahead of you there.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-05-11T17:44:14+00:00

Smurfy I agree completely with you. We must be living in a different universe.

I just texted my brothers and asked them if they expect to pay and of course only my oldest brother answered and he said def.

Guys doing the inviting and the paying is common I guess everywhere but in ppd and TRP. Even when I was in college the guys paid for formals or going out to eat or whatever.

Maybe this difference of opinion has to do with online dating which is something I haven't done?

OldeGuardian · 2017-05-11T17:34:29+00:00

On one hand, I get what you're saying. When someone invites someone somewhere there's an expectation the host/inviter will cover the guest. If I have friends over at my place, I'm going to feed them and generally help them get mdoerately drunk.
But, I feel like this gets trickier in dating specifically. I know its not universal, but I feel there is still a pretty strong expectation that a man asks a woman out, not the reverse. Obviously it happens, but my understanding is it's much less frequent.
Does this automatically mean men are also expected to generally cover the cost of the date? I'm pro splitting the bill on first dates unless you invite someone to an overly expensive spot.

Gorgatron1968 · 2017-05-11T18:36:14+00:00

If I invite someone out on a date of course I am paying. In my experiance a great many women offer to pay for half (sometimes offer to pay for it all ) and not just a casual "oh did you want me to" but actually reaching for the pocketbook. It is nice for them to offer but no. In college it was different me and 126 had little dough so we pooled money for stuff. (btw she had a job all through college where I did not)

IIHotelYorba · 2017-05-11T16:54:59+00:00

Well. I mean, ok. Most girls I've met up with offer to pay. Then again I do a lot of things most people would abstractly call rude, that rarely get taken as rude in practice.

[deleted] · 2017-05-11T18:36:53+00:00

My friends in high places live like this, but down here in the bottom of society we take care of ourselves. I like this particular tradition of yours, but not upholding it is only rude in your society.

wtknight · 2017-05-11T19:42:23+00:00

It really depends upon what she is expecting on the date. I prefer to take a first date out for just coffee, to pay for her drink and pastry, and leave it at that. But if she is insisting on dinner and a movie on a first date and says this, then she should be willing to pay her part.

Of course, I'm not expecting sex or even a kiss on a first date, so I really don't care about not being rewarded for my expenditures. If she thinks that it's cheap that I only want to take her out for coffee or expect her to pay for more on a bigger first date, then I think that's a big red flag alone that she likes to spend too much money, and being a frugal person myself I don't think our values would match up.

As I said in yesterday's thread, though, all of my first dates were always unemployed, so I paid no matter where we went.

Cho_Assmilk · 2017-05-11T19:47:48+00:00

You do realize the elevated risk of liability when providing alcohol to a guest don't you? Or is assuming the responsibility for your guests until they are home in bed part of being a good host?

DupreeMcJones · 2017-05-11T21:05:41+00:00

So, seeing as how men do the vast majority of approaching, it goes to reason that men should be paying for formal dinner dates.

How convenient for you.

Get used to paying pariah.

Pope_Lucious · 2017-05-11T22:07:13+00:00

This is amazing. So because men are expected to approach women more, and they do so, we should expect men to pay. What a convenient ethic. Can we ever go the other direction with assigning responsibility? How about women should start approaching men and start paying their fair share?

DevilishRogue · 2017-05-11T22:21:47+00:00

The equivalence of this level of entitlement would be to say "If I invite someone out, they should pay for me as my company is enough to warrant them doing so."

basebool · 2017-05-12T01:47:24+00:00

Unless I say my treat or I want to take you out tonight or something that heavily, heavily suggests I will pay, no way in hell I would be with someone with such entitlement.

This is feminism at its finest. "We want equality and same treatments men get" but want everything they had before. You want equality? Pay for your own damn food before you accept a food or drinks invitation. Jeezus christ how is this a foreign concept to people.

basebool · 2017-05-12T02:02:36+00:00

I'm so glad my girlfriend isn't like most women here. She knows unless one of us specifically says im paying tonight, there is never any implication. If nothing is said, dutch is assumed.

Sorry most of you were grown to be entitled but where I am, it's pretty well known that you eat it, you buy it unless otherwise specifically mentioned.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-05-11T18:42:36+00:00

But if you're going to invite a girl to dinner, understand that the social expectation is that you - as the invitation issuer - is expected to provide.

Not anymore. Not in a day and age when women are starting to outearn men.

This isn't really etiquette or "manners". This is really just women demanding all the privileges of "women's liberation" while assuming none of the burdens.

It's "I am strong independent woman who makes my own money and I don't need no man" while at the same time "I am a wee widdle woman in need of provisioning from the big stwong man".

It's strength and independence until it comes time for dating and actually getting out the checkbook, at which time men are expected to assume traditional gender roles and fork over the cash for the privilege of auditioning to be the 45th entrant into her "promised land".

Electra_Cute · 2017-05-11T16:34:43+00:00

How can anyone challenge this view, it is commonly considered rude, that is a given. The only time it would not be considered rude is if it was in agreement that one person always paid.

SmurfESmurferson · 2017-05-11T21:05:41+00:00

I kinda agree, but I generally offer something cheap or just make it clear that we're splitting when offering. I wouldn't expect a girl to pay half, but I'd think less of her if she didn't offer or didn't contribute to the next date.

I've only had a couple of gfs and one was pretty broke, she didn't pay for anything, but she was always offering to darn/hem/bake things for me so she was contributing just differently.

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Feyra · 2017-05-11T16:56:50+00:00

That's a reasonable guideline, but still a guideline. Available funds are a thing, after all. I have a very good friend who makes not much money, so when we go out I cover for her because my goal is going out with my friend.

Personally, I'd favor going dutch as the default. If there's a reason one party can't pay for whatever goes down, then it becomes a negotiation or a favor. Guidelines are a start, after all, and can be adjusted based on the situation.

[deleted] · 2017-05-11T20:30:59+00:00

Then stay home. Alone. Or write up a pre-nup before the date.

You're welcome.

KrispyMcSockington · 2017-05-12T06:20:17+00:00

Same goes for when girls invite guys - she is expected to provide

Except it hardly happens this way. Men are still expected to approach. Using the "you invited so you pay" reasoning therefore means women hardly ever have to pay for anything. It gives them an out to justify scoring freebies from men.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2016/04/13/why-are-men-still-paying-for-women-dates/RT3zjhcqD42cnJdLnOKZEL/story.html

More than two fifths of women are bothered that their partners expect them to help pay. So your reasoning is basically justifying this position.

How would you feel if, after he paid, he expected sex from you?

aznphenix · 2017-05-12T08:45:11+00:00

This seems to be upper class ettiquette at this point - something that's going to have to be taught. Colloquially most people assume that cheques are going to be split and everyone pays their share. Nice friends cover their poorer friends if we're going somewhere nice and want to hang out there. But generally everything just gets split.

darksoldierk · 2017-05-13T00:19:27+00:00

I was always taught that if you ask someone out/invite them over, the burden is on you to provide the paid-for refreshments/entertainment.

Really?

So you are telling me that every time your friend texts a bunch of you and says "hey, lets go out to dinner and try that new restaurant today", you expect that your friend will pay?

Last I checked, showing up to a persons house empty handed is rude. If they invite you over, the expectation might be that they provide alcohol, snacks or even a full dinner, but the expectation has always also been that you bring something with you. A bottle of wine, a bag of chips, dip, whatever. That's how it used to be in the dating world as well. Men used to be expected to pay and women used to be expected to provide SOMETHING of value to men to repay them. Since men are not longer allowed to expect something of value from women, women should also not expect men to pay.

TheBlackQuill · 2017-05-11T17:59:54+00:00

For me personally, I rather we keep the cost minimum. Dating is basically when we find out whether we are compatible or not. Just imagine, if we spend so much specifically for your date, and turns out we are not compatible, there will be so much resentment. Why not go to the park for a walk, or cook a lunch/dinner? It is much a better option in my opinion.

Title	CMV: Inviting Someone Out And Expecting Them To Pay Is Rude
Author	SmurfESmurferson
Upvotes	10
Comments	299
Date	May 11, 2017 4:31 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6al8ft/cmv_inviting_someone_out_and_expecting_them_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-inviting-someone-out-and-expecting-them-to-pay.268189 https://theredarchive.com/post/268189