CMV: Men are no longer the "prize" by default due to the rapidly changing landscape of womens' rights and equal pay, and they're now having to be equal partners and hate they it.

wtknight · 2022-10-03T17:58:11+00:00

Post removed and locked due to OP being temporarily banned.

throwawaylessons103 · 2022-10-03T16:09:01+00:00

Honest question OP:

Have you ever dated a woman, or dated women with any sort of regularity?

I only ask because as a bi F (27), I can confidently say that dating women is no walk in the park. It can be, in many ways, just as difficult if not more than dating men.

Someone can be a great friend, great employee, great mother, but be a terrible girlfriend/wife. The qualities that make someone good at one of those areas don't always make them good at another.

The biggest hurdle I've faced with dating women is their passive-aggressiveness, and need to be "right" in an argument. My current girlfriend is calm and communicates peacefully, which is a much more "rare" quality in women now than money, looks, or confidence (often bordering on narcissism).

I also wonder what % of women you'd actually find attractive if you were into them sexually. As a bi woman, I do find more women attractive on average than men... but it's surely not the majority even then.

This idea that most women are staying in shape, doing their makeup, staying sexy as adults isn't true and the stats show that. Average US woman is 5'4 170lbs.

I live in the Midwest and am frequently in the top maybe 15% of conventionally hot people when I go out on the town, and I'm like a 7 at best. Most people aren't lookers.

Also have to question what "on their level" means. Men and women look for different things usually; People are looking for sexual/relationship polarity.

Sudden_Substance7914 · 2022-10-03T16:11:38+00:00

Men aren't usually complaining here about being held to high standards within a relationship. Men are complaining about not getting dates. You have to get in a relationship in order to show you can cook, are emotionally vulnerable, etc. Many men aren't getting that chance at all more than ever. That's what has changed about dating. You're talking about a different thing altogether.

Sudden_Substance7914 · 2022-10-03T17:00:50+00:00

Honestly you have to admit that your friends just can’t attract the men they desire. That’s the reverse side of this no one talks about. If your single friends were all gorgeous, great cooks, boss women with great personalities there would be a line of attractive single men (who meet your friends’ standards) willing to date them. But that isn’t the case because your friends have something wrong with them as well. Always remember that dating takes two to tango.

panascope · 2022-10-03T17:28:10+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice. They have options, but the men they meet are simply not at their level. They don't have good attitudes, good careers, interesting hobbies, or (seemingly) friends, or really bring anything to the relationship. Maybe they'll have one or two good quality out of, like, the bare minimum requirements for a good partner.

I find the career part a little surprising because people tend to marry within their class, if these women are successful they should be interacting/socializing with similarly successful men, but from this blurb it sounds like not? Are they heading down to the dives on lady's night or something?

Lisavela · 2022-10-03T16:39:18+00:00

Women need to increase their standards the type of men I see people dating scares me, when women stop participating in hook ups hold men accountable dating will get better for all

Steakman1 · 2022-10-03T16:22:56+00:00

Men were always responsible for courting the woman which takes effort. Unless you’re specifically talking about when arranged marriages were a thing. But then you’d be completely ignoring most of the last century. The idea that men just had to show up and maybe be clean simply isn’t true.

You talk about how women had to be good partners but frame it like it’s a bad thing. What is so bad about a woman being a good partner? The dynamic used to be the man works long hours and provides the financials and the woman took care of the house. But yet you try to frame it as though the man was doing nothing.

Women don’t need men anymore and certainly not as much as men need women.

If we’re purely talking about relationships then sure, more women seem to be fine with not pursuing relationships compared to men. But I also think part of that is due to women believing they can put off relationships because they can easily find a good one whenever they’re ready. Whereas with men (the ones interested in relationships), they understand that finding a good relationship is hard and will likely only get harder with the older they get because the good women near their age will be in relationships. This is just my theory on the issue.

But if you’re saying women don’t need men even outside of relationships, that’s just evidence of living a super sheltered life without realizing that most of what you need to survive has been provided to you by men. Men gathered the food you eat, men purified the water you drink, men built the house you live in and the office building you work in, men built the car you drive, etc. and though I’m sure there’s a small amount of women now doing these things, I doubt anybody wants to be paying $20 for a gallon of milk because the men decided to stop working. And that doesn’t include the milk getting delivered to the stores which trucking is also a field dominated by men.

if he wanted to, he would. If he wanted to be a good partner, he would.

I don’t mind this mentality at all. The problem is when both men and women are prioritizing sex appeal in their partner and then are caught off guard when they realize the person doesn’t have many good relationship qualities. By all means find a partner you’re attracted to sexually. But if the goal is a long term relationship, then it shouldn’t be your number one most important trait to look for. If you’re willing to throw away someone with good relationship qualities and is attractive for someone with a higher sex appeal regardless of their relationship qualities, then you simply shouldn’t be looking for relationships and stop wasting other people’s time and hurting them in the process.

… makes them feel so entitled to a partner and such visceral rage when they can’t find one for whatever reason.

I’m guessing this is more directed at the incel crowd. But there really isn’t evidence that incels feel entitled to a relationship. It’s actually the opposite. Incels don’t feel like they’re good enough for a relationship and are mad because they’re under the impression that they can’t do anything about it. I recommend looking into William Costello who is an evolutionary psychologist that studied incels.

DumbWordsmith · 2022-10-03T16:36:43+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice.

Alright, that's great. However, the average woman is none of those things. She's overweight, average-looking, and makes an average salary. So how is this relevant to an average guy? He never had a shot with a gorgeous woman anyway.

Many women are choosing to be single by choice, single mothers by choice, and spend their lives with robust social supports provided to them by their communities of like-minded women. We simply don't need men anymore.

We get it: Men are worthless, broke, ugly, blah, blah, blah. Women don't need them anymore. Men need to look inward, because women are enlightened beings that have it all figured out.

Most of us have heard this since we were children. This type of taunting is nothing new.

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-10-03T16:34:45+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice.

I have seen damn near this exact thing copied and pasted from numerous Huffington Post articles lol, off to a blazing start already

They have options, but the men they meet are simply not at their level.

And they say we're the overconfident ones🤣

But the balance is shifting. Women don't need men anymore and certainly not as much as men need women.

Nobody actually needs anybody but let's see where this goes

Women have had to primp, spend tons of money on clothes and makeup, put in tons of effort on dates.

Wait I thought you guys did that "for yourselves" 🧐

No wonder women are starting to treat relationships as transactions

So the same shit that the red pill says that women always push back against, okay

And, oops, you accidently saddled yourself to a man who turned out to be a bad guy? Divorce him!

Yes they already do, we've already established women initiate 70 to 80% of divorces with the number one factor being money issues, so the quality of the guy is debatable along with the family courts being sued in women's favor

This concept of men no longer being the default prize makes them feel so entitled

There's that e word again that y'all love

and such visceral rage

I'm going to need y'all to decide is it visceral Rage or are we all just smoking pot, playing video games and jerking it porn all day?

The bar for men has been on the floor for pretty much all of human existence,

If the bar has been on the floor for men, the bar for women has been in hell, my goodness lol

and women are raising that bar.

For a less valuable product, so ultimately everything just balances out

The kind of man, that the totally real women you described at the beginning would want have their own options, and a 30-year-old career woman with 20 bodies , being a single mother by choice and an annoying attitude is not quite the prize for a lot of men either, but hey I hope it works out for everybody

Fat_Papaya · 2022-10-03T15:57:45+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice.

🙄🙄🙄

Between that and the title it became immediately obvious the type of person you are to believe this crap haha

OhDestinyAltMine · 2022-10-03T16:17:33+00:00

What you’re leaving out is how restrictive the “old ways” also were for men. When women are dependent on you, you have entirely different macro social responsibilities.

When that’s no longer the case, women ALSO have to “improve” in the sense that if you want a man in your life, you have to give him what he WANTS. And in most cases, sure some of the qualities you listed are important in a life partner, but just that YOU see them as “gorgeous successful wonderful” means nothing. Basically, men’s standards Also matter increasingly for getting relationships. And if men don’t see you as someone to aspire towards, they aren’t going to show you their best selves.

So like honestly, you’re just telling on yourself if you genuinely believe you and your friends have so much to offer but aren’t finding guys on your level. Many of the very same guys who strike you as slack jawed indifferent bums… are just giving you hookup type efforts. If they saw you differently, they would pursue you differently. Sure, men DO have to figure out attraction in a context where their romantic efforts aren’t subsidized so they will be more productive elsewhere. In the same sense, women have to learn to “keep” men IF they want one in their lives (which most start to around your age). Because we don’t have the responsibility to take care of you just because anymore, and that’s actually liberating!

TATA456alawaife · 2022-10-03T16:18:46+00:00

Men have never been the prize though, unless they were a member of the aristocracy, clergy, or had very high social status.

2022-10-03T16:45:48+00:00

Women are no longer partners- they are the competition

newoneaj1234 · 2022-10-03T16:47:07+00:00

Good...don't reduce your standards.But it makes me glad that I've given upon dating....I can be myself for just myself.

blueberrypie02 · 2022-10-03T17:25:36+00:00

Why your succesful and gorgeous friends don’t meet men with good careers and with interesting hobbies? Sure, attitude can be subjective (just as your evaluation of your friends) but this post has some paragraphs that read like fanfiction.

I support the general idea that a man has to add to your life and be a pleasant company. However, that doesn’t make you a prize. The prize is the relationship a man and woman can build together.

AnAgentOfMyOwnMaking · 2022-10-03T17:55:44+00:00

This phrase right here, “while boys were taught to be monster trucks or whatever.” shows such an ignorance of the male experience and what we are actually taught. It set the tone for the rest of the piece. This isn’t actually an attempt to be constructive at all, because there’s no understanding offered, not one single olive branch to let men know that we’re welcome to this discussion.

Well, since you squared up, let’s do it then. Men need women, and we have always known that we need women. There’s a certain humility inherent in manhood that comes from our need for women. If we want a family, we cannot create that on our own. It gives us purpose and meaning to come home to after a hard day of work. Which brings me to my next point...

We are taught to work hard through an onslaught of resistance, rejection, and retribution. And not only to work hard, but to work hard in groups as a team. This has been ingrained in us through sports, scouting, the military, or fraternities. Hell, even organized crime has an inherit sense of camaraderie. Communities have been built and maintained by men in much the same teamwork oriented fashion to accomplish great things, and it’s how men view families, as a tight knit team.

The bar hasn’t been in hell for men. Hell is the life men live when they don’t measure up to the metaphorical bar. And men don’t have to only measure up to the romantic bar for women, they have to measure up to the teamwork bar for other men. When they fail to meet both, you may as well be exiled, and you should be. Men need to spend some time in the depths of our society and sorrows so they can learn how to crawl out of it and push forward in life.

For me, it was when I lost my father and I avoided any sort of purpose in life. For others it may be war or poverty. Either way, it’s necessary to manhood and infinitely more complex than just “showing up” like you claim it is.

But you wouldn’t know any of that, because you’re clearly focused on money, makeup, and the ego-centric view of making yourself feel “lesser-than” for the sake of men’s egos. When men go to work for their families and subject themselves to strife and embarrassment, we also have our own sense of humility. Sounds like you could use some of it.

Oh but wait, you don’t need us anymore.

Rube-And-Tug · 2022-10-03T17:03:31+00:00

It always does seem the least bit suspicious that the average woman is 5’4, 170 lbs, earning like $20 per hour with an associates and facially average, yet somehow every woman on PPD not only describes herself as an unspeakably gorgeous CEO/supermodel, but also somehow manages to exclusively interact with other equally beautiful and successful women

Mydragonurdungeon · 2022-10-03T16:12:28+00:00

Women have always used men to make their lives easier and safer.

They have now outsourced those two needs to men who are not they husband.

So what is happening now is women are behaving like spoiled children. They get everything they want and bitch about having to make any concessions. Having to compromise an inch?

Why that is the biggest problem they have in their lives, since they get everything they ever want.

They live such an incredibly privileged life they think having to compromise is oppression.

psd5 · 2022-10-03T16:42:06+00:00

"Women have had to primp, spend tons of money on clothes and makeup, put
in tons of effort on dates. Men have always just had to... show up."

1) This is completely delusional thinking. Men are the ones that have no options. Not women. You always have had the right for sex as a woman, because you are the ones that can bring up a new life. Not males.

2) Haven't you thought the reason why most of men simply "do not care about their physical appearence" is just because either:
a) There's no universal makeup that will enhance your face to be a model-like or not even for unattractive looking faces from males to improve their sex appeal.
Unfortunately, most if not all of the women out there can have this as the easiest way to improve their sex appeal and even the most unattractive ones thinking that " i care more about my body-face rather than most of men do", even though it's a thing that pretty much anybody can do in comfort of being next to a desktop. If most of males a legit signal of makeup that would give them more success with women, i bet many dudes would just do it. But it leads again to my point that, if you're not genetically attractive in face structure as a male, you're on a pointless persuit in this department. This is why I think women tend to just follow up the most attractive faces from male models or hollywood actors because it's either a very hard thing to get as a male nor you women simply don't appreciate the male beauty.

b) There're no magical surgeries for males. No way to fix height, penis size, abdomen/arms muscle potential, no face structure fixes besides nose. You can literally buy up some breast / butt implants or liposuctions for the undesirable female body parts and bingo, you got magically from being a 3 or 4/10 to be a 8 or 9/10 for most of dudes.
Specially since a couple of years ago already, I have seen several amount of women that can come from the 3-4/10 sex appeal tier to like 8/10 out of these procedures that take just a couple of hours.
Most of women do not persue these surgeries just yet because either do NOT need them to get sex-loving attention from males OR don't have the willpower, are lazy or dont have to money for it.
My point with this is, you have these magical procedures to improve your physical appearence dramatically. Men do not in any way shape or form. So it's rather hypocritical to critize males that " do not care about their physical appearence" when you have all the best options available for your gender.

c) Getting fit and muscled is NOT an easy job/task to accomplish, in any way shape or form. This is not a magical shortcut like the previous point.
Yes, most of dudes out there (if not all) can get a six pack, broad shoulders/arms, neck, back and legs. Though, it's not an easy thing at all because nobody gift it to you as a male. No magical procedures like breast implants. No amount of fat and eat up hamburgers will give you a six pack magically.
It's needed a titanic amount of mental strength that very few people are ever capable to realize in this world. It's not a matter that muscles are useless in this era. It's simply the fact you need a truly strong mental set to ever accomplish such a thing that many girls desire. Women simply do not comprehend how hard is to have muscled arms as a male, specially in this age full of easy ways to improve your physical apparence as a woman but also on how much technology have made way easier your life-time as a human being, specially in western culture.
Fact is, muscles require besides a very big a mount of weekly training, money and discipline to achieve. A thing that neither you need as a woman to get makeup or clothes or heels or whatever you call as " self improvement for dating ".

I come from obesity being a male. And because I dont have any shortcut as "male makeup" to achieve girls into bed or relationships, I can say that building up muscles in one of the hardest ever ways that exist to achieve sex appeal as a human being. Your little complainings about " I have to shave my body " or " I get makeup while men don't care about their appearence " is complete garbage.
I never got a compliment or a hug or a date from a girl in 32 years and yet I have just started to recieve some female views on my body because some muscle gain.
You don't know what is truly like the effort to accomplish beauty as when you live on the male experience.

It's such an easy and hypocritical way to complain men that " do not care about themselves " or "they don't care about domestic tasks" when you have the easiest things to do. It's anything except easy to go out from your home to an hostile environment and deal with unknown people just to waste 10+ hours of your daily life just to gather the money for whole family.

I would prefer any day of the week to stay home, doing "daily home task" rather than going out for such a long and tiring amount of time.

As a matter of fact, I can conclude that if you ever women started to value what men do for you in terms of workforce, how much men desire you women and how little we have to improve our physical appearence, you may then gather some humility and learn how hard is to be a male.

I would love to use male makeup and get all women thirsty if you ever valued the male physique way more than you ever did.
As you complain about "men not caring about their appearence", I can tell you that you women have a debt in desiring way more the mental and physical traits of males in any culture or country from any age.

AidsVictim · 2022-10-03T17:49:30+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice. They have options, but the men they meet are simply not at their level. They don't have good attitudes, good careers, interesting hobbies, or (seemingly) friends, or really bring anything to the relationship. Maybe they'll have one or two good quality out of, like, the bare minimum requirements for a good partner.

The vast majority of the time women give this description they are describing over manicured 6's with tons of expensive clothes working boring office jobs (flip a coin whether they actually do anything useful at them) whos main hobbies are brunch and travel (having brunch in exotic locations). Most importantly they are also probably shit at socializing with men and most dates with them probably feel like job interviews.

This made me realize something (especially since finding this sub). Women have always had to be "good" partners to find a man. Good wives, good cooks, good mothers. We're taught from a young age to "play house" and "learn to cook" while boys were taught to be monster trucks or whatever. Women have had to primp, spend tons of money on clothes and makeup, put in tons of effort on dates. Men have always just had to... show up. Maybe even brush their hair or their teeth if they felt like really making an effort. The bar is in hell for men, but women have had to continue maintaining the house, caring for the kids, working a full time job, be educated and interesting--all while not expecting much of the man nor making him feel emasculated if she happens to be smarter, more successful, or bring in more money than him. We've spent pretty much all of time making ourselves small and lesser-than for mens' egos.

How many more decades before we stop pretending this fantasy that anyone dating today (apologies if you're on social security and still dating) has grown up with these Stepford Wives expectations? Or that it was at all difficult to find a man if you can't cook or whatever supposed requirement ingrained into them? I guess someone forgot to tell the entire generation of X and millenial women because they sure as hell don't know how to model the stereotypical 50's housewife lifestyle women complain about.

We simply don't need men anymore.

Excellent distillation of the autistic alienated attitude that results in a profoundly alienated dying society.

They'd rather blame women, or dating apps, or the system, or their height, or XYZ instead of looking inward and making themselves better partners to attract the women they want. The bar for men has been on the floor for pretty much all of human existence, and women are raising that bar.

The only bar men to need to pass is "Is he exciting enough?". Any element of self improvement that doesn't lead in this direction can be tossed in the bin.

h1shman · 2022-10-03T16:25:36+00:00

I'm in my late 20s, and all of my female friends are 25-40, gorgeous, successful, wonderful, and many are single by choice.

It was at this moment I knew nothing of value or reality was going to be said.

Your friends are likely not very attractive and the higher quality men are dating sexier and younger women. I agree that they are probably better off staying single than going for the men they are able to attract. Neither sex is reliant on the other anymore.

Oli_love90 · 2022-10-03T16:42:55+00:00

This is not the place for anything that may shed some good light on women. I don’t know if this was ever a forum for dating debates and conversation. Most comments will disagree with you and/or call you and your friends old and ugly.

AutoModerator · 2022-10-03T15:52:34+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

INFPSoloDuh · 2022-10-03T16:26:12+00:00

lmao "the prize"? hahahha

MWolf3007 · 2022-10-03T17:07:12+00:00

TBH I am happy now, i can finally do what i wanted to do, try outt new things and not feel burdened that I have a family to think about. Now ofcourse i am not talking about straight up BS that puts me in harms way. What I am saying is that maybe finally i can put myself as my first priority and not my wife or family.

itm4l2000 · 2022-10-03T17:23:48+00:00

Any women in Ukraine who'd like to give their perspective on OP comments?

ObjectiveCow59 · 2022-10-03T17:28:46+00:00

Men used to be taught to become fathers for women and children by acquiring resources, don’t blame men for dismantling that structure, and don’t blame us when women can’t find any value in us without it. You made your bed now lie in it, I’ll be sleeping on the metaphorical dog house with the rest of masculinity and an Xbox

Peacesquad · 2022-10-03T17:51:51+00:00

This isn’t true. The man is still the prize it’s just less men that are the prize. Trust me, NBA Players, actors, rappers,etc are still cleaning up young hot women in abundance. The gap is just larger. Top tier men still have all the leverage

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-10-03T17:17:51+00:00

A lot of guys like it. But let’s be real. Some if the angry posters here were probably the ones that had “does not play well with others” on third behavioral reports at school

YtBlue · 2022-10-03T15:59:26+00:00

This made me realize something (especially since finding this sub). Women have always had to be "good" partners to find a man. Good wives, good cooks, good mothers.

Yes cause men didn't have to die in wars consequently live much shorter lives and work their ass off. We just sat on the couch and watch TV that wasn't invented yet.

with men being the ones to exclusively reap the benefits of marriage.

Women marry up socio economically statistically. Men marry down. So how is this statement true.

if he wanted to, he would. If he wanted to be a good partner, he would. If he wanted to be equals, he would. If he wanted you to feel important, he would.

Spoken like someone with very few responsibilities. I want to be a F1 driver and risk killing myself. Would I? Yes but no because my responsibilities come first. Welcome to the real world. It's not about what I would or should do. It's what I have to do

This concept of men no longer being the default prize makes them feel so entitled to a partner and such visceral rage when they can't find one for whatever reason

When women quote they want men at their preconceived level but preferably above. That means that men are what to them? A prize. Simple concept.

Arrathall · 2022-10-03T16:20:15+00:00

Also no. Women have unrealistic standards and overrate themselves greatly. Sorry not sorry

MasterTeacher123 · 2022-10-03T16:27:31+00:00

I don’t think women “always had to be good partners” though unless the bar for good partners is I fuck him when he wants and make dinner which is the bare minimum lol

I know so many women who claim or have claimed “ I was good girlfriend to him too, I held him down” and when you ask why they say that it’s usually I sucked his dick on demand and I washed his draws 😂

The average woman like the average man ain’t shit

ruboyuri · 2022-10-03T16:30:00+00:00

They are, because it’s not ideal to raise kids alone

Plus, Disney indoctrination/social conformity

JadedButWicked · 2022-10-03T16:56:28+00:00

There are millions of women from 3rd world countries willing to marry any American men simply because of there citizenship. Men have plenty of options it's just not mainstream yet to do so.

Gtedx · 2022-10-03T17:54:02+00:00

Being a single mother by choice is extremely selfish. Single mothers raise the children with the highest likelihood of becoming criminals. Out of the 27 deadliest mass shooters, 26 of them were fatherless.

If you don't plan to raise a child in a stable two parent household you should just get a cat, drink your wine and buy a vibrator. The world doesn't need more degenerates.

Sudden_Substance7914 · 2022-10-03T16:57:13+00:00

One thing that makes me laugh about this is when we express that we are single by choice and the men wonder why, then we ask what he can bring to the table and he has no answer that we don’t already have more of than what he can even give. Lol

Literally was discussing this with a Redditor a few weeks ago.

Him: “Don’t you think that’s a very pessimistic view of men?”

Me: “What are you saying one can offer me that I don’t already have in abundance, besides bring trouble?”

Him: no answer to the question

Lol I’ve had that conversation several times. It’s even funnier in real life when the guy is intimidated by your income/job (esp. when he makes significantly less than you do).

I’m a very open-minded individual and I like to see other people take their chances and have their fun too, but I can honestly say that I have not met a guy I would rather be with over being single. They just don’t offer anything I want or need at all. And I am not going to take care of a grown man. 😂

poppy_blu · 2022-10-03T16:50:23+00:00

I always find it hilarious how men on this sub state constantly that women have it so much easier.

Well, now men ARE being treated like women always have. They ARE being judged and rejected for their looks. They ARE being treated as option rather than a necessity. They ARE being expected to compete with other men and to bring something to the table that women want or be alone.

And OMG do they fucking HATE it.

So maybe it’s not so easy to be a woman after all?

MAGA-Latino · 2022-10-03T16:26:40+00:00

No women just haven't caught on about the SMV flip. Maybe we should give them a copy of Rollo's book.

ohheyhi99 · 2022-10-03T16:21:47+00:00

“Sexy” beats out “equal but not sexy”

jxjkskkk · 2022-10-03T17:32:00+00:00

There’s so much incorrect and backwards in this post that I don’t know where to start nor have time to comment. But I’m hoping other commenters immediately understand what I’m saying.

darkvalleys · 2022-10-03T17:42:43+00:00

Women settle. Women always settle

Not all, of course. But enough

Just like men

Pacman124 · 2022-10-03T17:50:04+00:00

Your friends are voluntarily celibate because the men on their level don't want to date them, which leaves them only the options of lower-value men. For every high-value woman, there is a high-value man, maybe your friends aren't that desirable or high-value since they seem to attract only the same type of men that they don't want.

You're pretty much condensing the dynamic between men and women by slamming low-value men (who have always existed) for not deserving high-value women. Yeah no sh*t, now that's a revelation.

Since your friends are successful, aren't they interacting with people of the same class? Be it at work, or from their hobbies. What's their social circle like? Surely there must be a man that would be happy to be with them if he is interested himself that is

s0meg1rl · 2022-10-03T17:27:48+00:00

You speak the truth anon. You won’t get the discussion you’re looking for here. But you’re brave for trying. At this point women tend to be better-educated than men are. The majority of Ph.D.’s I know are women. Careers and earnings tend to be more equivalent, but even there women are losing their reliance on men. I know many women who earn mid 6-figures. I know a good amount who are dependent on their husband too, though it tends to be by choice (like wanting to be a SAHM). People want their partner to be in the same social class. A woman with a Ph.D. isn’t going to abide some man with a H.S. diploma mansplaining life to her. A woman with money isn’t going to tolerate a man with none.

High-value women are a dime a dozen at this point. And that’s good and bad because high-value men are very rare and becoming rarer. Who knows how it all ends. Social support from friendships and family cannot and will not sub for a marital partner. It just doesn’t. These relationships fulfill different needs. I think in many cases it ends with the woman marrying down. It’s not ideal, and in the back of her mind she’ll always know that her partner isn’t at her level. But the other option is being single forever. I guess if it works “well enough” for both, who knows, maybe they end up happy.

Arrathall · 2022-10-03T16:16:08+00:00

If the bar for men is on the floor the bar for women is in the outer earth core.

Paellamonster · 2022-10-03T17:38:56+00:00

Well. I hope your gal pals enjoy their life as singles and without children.

2022-10-03T17:50:53+00:00

OP. You have given my theory a basis in reality.

The concept of "the bar is in hell" is a psychological prison for men. https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/wrftjo/the_concept_of_the_bar_is_in_hell_is_a/

Furthermore

OP. I applaud this attitude you position as the manifest manifestation of the great filter ; ) Filter so mighty that it denies any compromise thus then without humility , patience for human frailty intrinsic to us all it says "fuck you guys I am Atlas shrugged fam"

Those single friends that you hold in such high esteem, is there no projection or any inkling that they have created a false notion of what a man should be?

Womenfolk work hard at being the prize in their life and others.

...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_hYBHyKk34

If one analyses the lyrics , OP and her post make more sense.

Just be John Travolta fellas

coolboy_24278 · 2022-10-03T17:51:31+00:00

This is very delusional, idk where to start lol

Sofia_sticated91 · 2022-10-03T17:52:17+00:00

We as women are no longer accepting the bare minimum

This is false. Blatantly so in fact. All you need is a man who is a model and watch the standards go out the window. Forget bare minimum, I have watched women fuck men who insulted them to their face.

I have had women bake me cakes and cookies and shit.

Everyone is a hypocrite and a liar. There is no such thing as standards. People buckle. Its like the saying "everyone has a price". Same with people. There is always someone hot enough.

Hot enough that you would not only accept the bare minimum, you would rejoice if you got the bare minimum

2022-10-03T17:53:51+00:00

Men are still the prize but because homen are picky, their consolation prize often are not enough so they all go trying for the big shining troph 1#; if men wans't the prize you would have the 20% men going around the 5% of women not the oppose (80% women trying for 20% of men).

The visceral hate come from the lies everyone told us from infancy.

Summ1tv1ew · 2022-10-03T17:37:56+00:00

So these beautiful women that are single by choice . When do you think the depression of being alone and childless will kick in? Many studies point to that .

And the thing about being a man is that they can find women who are much lower status and be perfectly content with her . After reading this post and reflecting, I've come to the conclusion that men value relationships with a good woman far greater than women with a good man .

AutoModerator · 2022-10-03T15:52:34+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

risdeveau · 2022-10-03T17:28:42+00:00

Counterpoint: Twu Wub and baby rabies