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Confidence (in the sense of being comfortable with yourself warts and all) is equally attractive for men and women

June 3, 2021
0 upvotes

I've referred to this before, where a lot of men --- especially locked into the TRP or TBlP worldview --- believe that confidence only matters for men if it matters at all and that for women it's just LOOKS YOUTH LOL.

Cliff's:

Cute but not particularly special woman who was outgoing, funny, insecure af, but completely aware of it and owning it completely won me and another GL guy friend of mine over through how she behaved. She also indirectly brought me and this acquaintance closer together in friendship.

Key aspects to why she pulled it off ---

  1. She was deceptively smart.
  2. She was transparent about her insecurity
  3. She gave sincere compliments.
  4. She stated her little 'I am the prize' mantras (in her case --- I don't chase, I attract) in a very specific way. More like someone refusing to get blown over by a headwind than like someone who thought they were better than anyone else.
  5. She talked to everyone and was very inclusive.

Good energy but more importantly, authentic energy. Or at least a great presentation of authentic energy. No need to read anything else if you're opposed to reading a longer post.

--------------------------

To her ballsy and not drunk credit --- she approached first. I was sobering up at a really fancy bar where my favorite bartender, Will, works (you guys would put him somewhere on the Chad spectrum) and who doesn't mind breaking the -only sell bottled water- rule.

When I got there she was being jocular and flirty with him. She's like 24, 5'6, normal weight, good curves, cute face...but I mean, idk it's hard to describe. I think she's just pretty with youth. So nothing particularly remarkable at first glance.

I happened to be sitting at a place with a USB port so she says she has to find a spot with a usb port and I say I have one by me and let her have the seat and just move one to the right while she comes across most of the bar.

She made some joke about getting Will's number to Will, who just ignored it and served a few other people, and I was like 'nah man, you can't just gun it so fast with Will, you gotta finesse him a little, trick him a bit into it,' joking. And she's like 'uh no he needs to finesse me and buy me dinner. I don't chase I attract.' She said it with a little lift of her head --- like she meant it.

So the beginning opinion I had of her --- and me and Will exchanged glances like, 'ooooh great....' --- wasn't that high.

  1. She was good at LEADING and TEASING

I just resume drinking my water and letting her do her thing. After a few moments she asks "so what's your favorite number?"

"I don't have one....although if there was a number CALLED prime, that would be my favorite."

She smirked. "It's okay if you don't have a favorite number. My favorite number is 22. But it's just something I thought of to say...." and kept looking at me "...I, like to....." she made a very specific expression with her face "...be inclusive with my conversation."

I honestly laughed. A race joke and show of interest and a little flex of social value.

"Thanks for encouraging diversity in your conversational space. I never thought to use being inclusive as the standard for my conversations."

"Oh really, what's your standard?"

I rested my face on my hand.

"Proximity."

"And LOOK where that got you."

^ laffs opinion changing, but then as if at juuuuuust the right moment

"...but you have to know that I'm the main character here. Did you know [rattles off dope celebrities that have hit on her, she's worked for/ blah blah blah"

I go, "wait [celebrity] was in your DMs? Wow, why didn't you get at him."

Her: "Because I can do better."

^ arrogant seeming as fuck and I kind of let out an exhale, and she looks at me and smiles

"I like what I want not what people say I want. I have my own standards."

^ these threads were pretty normal, tension release, push pull, but the dopeness was that they were there to correct assumptions I was making. Very natural. A+

----

  1. She wore her flaws on her sleeve but also showed she was doing what she could with them.

She could be annoyingly self-deprecating and apologize too much. But her comfort with herself as a work in progress kind of crystallized with her saying

"Are you sarcastic?"

"...in real life or on the internet?"

She laughed at that and then I asked "...why are you sarcastic?"

"Ah yes. I am a sarcastic. -A- sarcasm."

"So why..."

"Because I'm insecure as fuck and you know it."

Talking with her back and forth me and Will actually discovered a lot of shared interests and Will turned out to have some SUPER NERDY skeletons in his closet. LOL.

She often would study me and would rattle off some list of cool shit about herself or whatever along with 'I mean, I know more than you think I would.'

She also complimented my eyes as pretty, but I told her I just had color contacts in. Then my cheekbones. Then she just sat there for a second '.....so here I am...just here. Complimenting you."

So I put a hand on her upper arm 'but wait a minute, I mean, the main character is the one who gives compliments. They don't need any. The whole story is about them, duh.'

She smiled and took a sharp inhale..."yes. I am the main character."

---

Anyway, after she left me and Will --- after settling down about bonding over our newfound shared interests --- I'm sitting there and he purses his lips and is like.

"....that girl. I think that girl has game."

"I was just thinking the same thing! What the fuck?!"

----

Have no clue if this person is A+ BDD manipulator, a true blue authentic cool person, etc. etc. All I know is that via HER PERSONALITY ALONE, she went from like a 6.5 to like an 8.5 to me. That shit happens, but like I've always said before...it's rare.

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Post Information
Title Confidence (in the sense of being comfortable with yourself warts and all) is equally attractive for men and women
Author Ohyarlysmiles
Upvotes 0
Comments 71
Date June 3, 2021 8:09 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/confidence-in-the-sense-of-being-comfortable-with.772805
https://theredarchive.com/post/772805
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nrmp64/confidence_in_the_sense_of_being_comfortable_with/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]StarchRunner 29 points30 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don’t have warts but now kinda wish I did, so I could have removed them instead of having spent the time reading whatever this was supposed to be. It’s like reading the internal ongoing monologue of the dude in American Psycho.

[–]milkyymochiiOutta Pocket Princess 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I stopped reading a few sentences in when I realized this was going to be some lame personal story no one cares to hear about.

TLDR: OP found a cute girl attractive because she was confident

[–]antonio_aurelio 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wish I saw your TLDR before I read that. Now, my eyes and brain hurt lol.

[–]lulll 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

once you see a post this long on here you know you're dealing with a guy who spent way, way too much time on the red pill subs. i don't know what it is with those red pill places but they kind of train guys to write these huge novel length posts. i don't know what the fuck it is but that's what happens. i can't even be bothered reading this fucking crap anymore

[–]ChibsFilipTelforddSpergnation Conflagration 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s like reading the internal ongoing monologue of the dude in American Psycho.

Loool

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am honored to be mentioned in the same breath as a masterpiece of contemporary literature. Humbly accepted.

[–]antonio_aurelio 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think OP forgot to take his meds lol.

That was difficult to read.

[–]xFallacyx69 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No not if you’re a dude...

Unattractive and confident = cocky & overcompensating

Attractive & confident = confident & charismatic

Halo effect is real bros

[–]Chad_Chadinski 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Halo effect is real boyos

Fixed that for you

[–]alberto-hofflover of chads 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I didn't read the entire post, but confident women always do well with men - even if they're average looking.

Hell, the men I date at thirty are waaaay higher rmv/SMV compared to when I was 25 and supposedly 'hotter'.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I think women hit a real sweet spot 25-35

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think the older women become, the more confident they are and the less fucks they give.

Men complain that women don’t approach them but they’re also saying that confidence doesn’t matter at all - well, which one is it?

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

“Men complain that women don’t approach them but they’re also saying that confidence doesn’t matter at all - well, which one is it?”

Less successful average and below average men are already somewhat attracted to most women who are average or slightly below average and up. They are rarely approached by women, so a lot of them think women aren’t approaching.

In general, attractive men and a few lucky average guys get the approaches and are in the position to choose between average and attractive women, so confidence can help a woman stand out from the competition.

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

so confidence can help a woman stand out from the competition

That’s my point, confidence helps. I get that it can be frustrating for unattractive men to never get approached, although it’s not the fault of women for not being attracted to them. Would men approach women they’re not attracted to?

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Are you suggesting that these guys are intentionally misleading women out of spite?

My point is that a lot of these less successful guys actually believe what they’re saying. They’re speaking from personal experience where probably most women in their age range aren’t trying to game them and wouldn’t need to to be attractive to them.

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, I’m saying that you can’t fault women for not approaching and trying to game men that they’re not attracted to.

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Who was saying otherwise?

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No one. It was just a response to your comment that unattractive men usually aren’t approached, and I responded that they shouldn’t be resentful at women because of that.

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok

[–]Less-Dentist-5982 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, definitely, but confident energy undeniably hits women more viscerally. They're not equally as important.

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 5 points6 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

It's weird that this sub is even debating whether confidence is a positive quality for both genders. Men love confidence, they may get turned on by cockiness, but arrogance kills it for a lot of them. I'd venture basically the same thing for women as well.

For some reason, men here seem to think confidence in women is either irrelevant or a net negative. They also believe women across the board love arrogance and cockiness and apparently Chad embodies this. shrug

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

“For some reason, men here seem to think confidence in women is either irrelevant or a net negative.”

I’m probably slightly below-average looking, and I think I see what’s going on.

The guys who say confidence is irrelevant to women’s attractiveness are usually less successful average or below-average men observing women who wouldn’t have to prove themselves to be physically attractive to these men. These women are probably slightly below average or higher attractiveness, meaning that lots of men in the average or below range find them somewhat attractive already. Average and below-average guys usually aren’t the subject of bold female game, and when they are, it’s usually from conventionally unattractive women. For conventionally unattractive people, male or female, confidence makes a big difference less often. Therefore, these guys conclude that confidence doesn’t affect women’s attractiveness because they don’t see many examples in their own lives where it makes a difference. It’s not necessarily that they dislike it. I’m also not saying that all average or below average-looking guys think this.

Conventionally attractive guys typically have enough options that a woman being above-average, as in, attractive to most people, still doesn’t make her special. Men at this level will be on the receiving end of bold game from average and above-average women much more often, and they will be choosing between women at these levels much more often.

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed reply. I think it's fair to say we each bring our subjective perspectives and biases to the dating game, so it makes sense that we all weight confidence differently. I was only saying confidence is a positive across genders; not that it's THE positive or that it's a gamechanger.

I'm also a relatively new member of this sub, so not sure what "bold game" means. Or if that even changes my understanding of your entire comment!

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed reply.”

No prob!

“I think it's fair to say we each bring our subjective perspectives and biases to the dating game, so it makes sense that we all weight confidence differently. I was only saying confidence is a positive across genders; not that it's THE positive or that it's a gamechanger.”

Very true.

“I'm also a relatively new member of this sub, so not sure what "bold game" means. Or if that even changes my understanding of your entire comment!”

Oh don’t worry, it’s not a special term or anything lol. I’ve heard some women on this sub describe more passive behavior as “girl game,” so I added “bold” to make it clear that we’re not talking about women who are being subtle haha

[–]Laytheblameonluck 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this sub debates whether a woman's weight impacts her SMV. Infact all of Reddit does. It's weird.

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women have never been dinged for lacking confidence. There's always a horde of men looking to empathize with or save a woman who's mousy. And then there's also the predators but they are only a fraction as prevalent as angry feminists say they are.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Said to me at least a dozen times here “We dont care about confidence. Confident women are a turn off.”

I’ve also been told here that educated women, smart women, women with opinions, women who ever had sex, women who enjoy sex, women who travel, women who have social media accounts, women who have friends, and women who make their own decisions about how to wear their hair are equally repulsive.

Gee whiz, what does that remind you of??? 🤔

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Gee whiz, what does that remind you of???

I'm stupid I'm sure but I don't get your point! Do you mean Inc#l or something like that...?

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think confidence is a bad term. More comfortable in your own skin

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

To me that’s a distinction without a difference.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The difference I think is the connotation vs the definition

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me, it takes a confident person to be comfortable in their own skin. And a person comfortable in their own skin is a confident person. I use them interchangeably. Is that not the correct usage?

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unsure. Confidence implies certitude about a result.

I suppose the certitude despite acknowledging the flaws implies confidence that the person is good enough for whatever.

You're right then.

By George, we solved it.

[–]LetsDelveIntoItPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think confidence implies knowing that you'll be okay regardless of the "result." you're going for. Unless being okay is the result in and of itself. #meta

By George, we solved it.

Ha, the English language in all its frustratingly beautiful glory!

[–]nemporisso 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You really can't beat authenticity.

[–]milkyymochiiOutta Pocket Princess 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Shocking revelation. Confident males and women are attractive.

[–]WilliamWyattD 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You do a decent job of arguing that confidence and being at ease with oneself can help some women be more attractive.

But the idea that it helps women as much as men is misguided. It clearly does not.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The set of men who are truly confident is pretty low and men are EXPECTED AND ENCOURAGED to develop this.

So the set of women who are the same would be much smaller.

The effect is probably equal but encountering a woman with a highly developed sense of self confidence is just rare.

[–]WilliamWyattD 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That is an interesting take. The relative rareness of it. Though with women, confidence can also turn off men if it makes the men feel they can never meet the girl's needs. Most men feel intuitively that a woman will want a man as confident as she is or more.

But let's not lose track of basic male/female psychology. Women are attracted (both in a raw sexual way and in a 'I want this lifestyle' way) to male competence and ability in a way that men are not attracted to the same in women. And male confidence can act as a marker for underlying competence (which is harder to measure) in women's heuristics.

So there is no way that in absolute terms confidence is equally attractive to both sexes.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of that psychology is just cultural programming.

People generally admire competence.

[–]WilliamWyattD 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's no doubt of the ability of culture to mediate biology, and the difficult in disentwining them. Nevertheless, I think it is pretty clear that there are basic, evolved psychological differences between the genders.

Both genders may admire competence; but female sexual desire is tied to admiration in a way male desire typically is not. I wish male desire was. But because it isn't, it is all the more important for men to manually add it to the mating equation using our intellect. But most men do not.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Indeed. X chromosome and Y chromosome. And lots of testosterone.

The rest has yet to be shown to be resultant from innate biology AINEC.

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Equally attractive but not at all required for women.

[–]XtoDoubtGame Works 6 points7 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Nobody ever got a boner because of a woman's confidence.

[–]ohheyhi99No Pill Man 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not true. Meeting someone’s attraction threshold massively improves that odds that people will find your confidence sexually attractive though.

[–]XtoDoubtGame Works 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Point me to the confidence porn for men.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] -2 points-1 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

WRONG BRO.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -2 points-1 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

There is a reason no one is trying to teach women to be confident in order to attract men. Nobody cares about confidence

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Stupid cultural norms ya.

So technically a confident woman has even more of an advantage than a confident man due to supply and demand.

Pussy wins again. Lol

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

There is no demand. She can supply all she wants. It's not gonna make a difference

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

So the cute woman that approaches you has less of chance with you versus the hot but shy woman that stays in the background?

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Oh, approaching me works better. Most women, confident or not, don't approach however.

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

most women, confident or not, don’t approach however.

Right, but that’s my point: it takes confidence to approach someone. The woman who takes the lead is more likely to stand out than the less-confident ones.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

A woman that approaches a man is more likely to stand out. Her confidence, leadership etc. are all irrelevant.

If we are talking about approaching then I agree that helps.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

LOL nice hamster

[–]PurplePill_ThrowawayRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So you’re saying that approaching someone has nothing to do with their confidence?

[–]Laytheblameonluck 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's not true, finishing school used to be about teaching women to act confident, work on their posture...etc

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Uh? It was to look elegant. Confidence was irrelevant.

[–]Laytheblameonluck 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well maybe more men need to look elegant. Maybe that's a better word.

[–]Barneysparky 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No one teaches women to be confident?

Every culture in the world has forms of that, from debutante balls to piano lessons.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Piano was about confidence? Of all the stupid shit I hear in here...

[–]Barneysparky 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course, music lessons were and are about confidence.

Sometimes I believe you were raised in a barn with 0 direction, so there is that.

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[–]PlayfulLawyer 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with that, I'm pretty confident in myself and always have been, it's still nice to hear a compliment but yeah a woman being physically attractive is one thing for sure but a woman that has natural genuine confidence and not trying to put on an act or something like that definitely takes her up a notch

[–]Expensive-Guitar3609 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, I never put so much thought on fucking a woman, but yeah I agree with the title.

[–]Lost-Tip3590 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, because the whole concept is vague and subjective.

[–]DaBlockObama 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t call that “confidence”. She was being cool and nice, and showing her pleasant personality.

A person could be confident and be belligerent, or awkward, or offensive. Don’t take positive personality traits or endearing qualities and just label them all as examples of confidence.

[–]AceOfBlacks 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This shit right here... just won the golden turd awards of 2021.

[–]evasive_manuevers2 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice blog post mate. Just remember to not back down and make a few witty retorts. It's the only way to save face at this point.

[–]NockerJoePervert Palpatine -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The obvious counterpoint is the warts never got anyone a first date and that cosmetics and social media are king for both genders now. Theres a reason you link all your social media to Tinder now and its not because people want authentic confidence, its because superficial style gets you way further and people will only check for anything else after you pass that barrier.

[–]Ohyarlysmiles[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Real life persists despite social media. Strange but true.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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