~ archived since 2018 ~

Do you think a large number of millennial and gen z men will end up without a life partner and chance to reproduce?

May 14, 2020
170 upvotes

To clarify, millennials are defined as being born between 1981 and 1996. Gen z are those born from 1997 onwards.

It seems like a lot of men in the millennial and gen z age range are really struggling with the sexual marketplace and finding a partner. Judging from my own observations and the discussion I read on the internet (not just on reddit, but across different social media platforms and forums). Women just consider them invisible. Large portions of them aren't having any sex at all, a lot less than previous generations, which means they won't get the chance to have kids unless that changes.

In contrast, it seems like the vast majority of gen x men and boomer men found life partners relatively easily. It seems extremely rare to find a 40+ year old man who hasn't been married, had kids nor had at least one long term partner (unless they are a Chad, but at least they are getting regular sex).

Men are told a lot on here that most men end up finding a partner and having kids, but do you think this will be true of millennial men and gen z men? What do you reckon?

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Post Information
Title Do you think a large number of millennial and gen z men will end up without a life partner and chance to reproduce?
Author BumblingBeta
Upvotes 170
Comments 470
Date May 14, 2020 7:39 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-a-large-number-of-millennial-and-gen.664830
https://theredarchive.com/post/664830
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gjte70/do_you_think_a_large_number_of_millennial_and_gen/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why would you wanna bring a kid into this shit show?

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]lycheenmefully a dumbass12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

honestly i feel like if you're having a kid just to give your life meaning, you might want to reconsider having a kid.

i'm not sure that people who don't have anything else rewarding going on/anything else in their life giving it meaning should have children.

[–]banned_by_cucks6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it really matters in the grand scheme of things. I’d rather we have people who have the resources to raise kids have kids irregardless of how boring their life may be compared to those who live adventurously and can’t provide a dime — and that’s exactly what we see in modern civilization.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not just that, but the fact its completely selfish, thats a human whom now hows to suffer needlessly because you got horny or just went and did whatever to make em. I personally would prefer not to exist (not in a i hate life way but if i had the choice id never exist and no one would have lived a lofe withme in it so it would be kinda like life before my little sister was born).

[–]mangolover9768 points69 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think a lot of people in that age range even want kids. Mostly because kids are a big expense that they can’t afford and also because they’re a big responsibility that they don’t want to take on.

It’s not the majority yet, but a growing number of young people are also becoming disillusioned with LTRs and romantic relationships so you’ll probably see a lot more people choosing to stay single forever and opting for coping methods to stave of the loneliness and sexual frustration.

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Fuck this is depressing...

[–]mangolover975 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but it’s life now /:

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's the world women wanted, which is ironic that it's women complaining about it the most.

[–]mangolover970 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think so tbh

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

They wanted a world where women had all of the power and zero responsibility. They got it, but men changed their behavior to adapt to the new system and now women are pissed. Men were supposed to stay docile little providers who'd never dare tell a woman no.

[–]mangolover970 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

They didn’t get it, and not all Women wanted this anyway. The biggest and most successful anti-feminist movements have been formed and run by other women. Stop era is one example, pro-life groups are another example.

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They did get it and women do want it, hence the lack of opposition to it from women.

The biggest and most successful anti-feminist movements have been formed and run by other women.

Name one. Also, you're confusing anti-abortion with anti-feminism, two very different things.

[–]mangolover970 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They don’t want it and they didn’t get it. Men still have the power globally and in the west. Most politicians and leaders are men.

I named 2 in my previous comment. Stop Era and the pro-life movement. Anti-abortion ties in with anti-feminism because abortion access is viewed as a feminist/women’s rights issue. We live in the age of social media “activism” now so for other women with dissenting views you’d have to find them online. I can name some of you’d like?

[–]basedmillennial950 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What's more depressing? Knowing the truth early and accepting it or ignoring the truth only to get blindsided later? For all the shit boomers threw at millennials we're not blind. We know the world is doomed.

[–]BillyDauterivePurple Pill Man14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Sexdolls, VR, etc. Yup.

[–]moodyblues895 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Hookers

[–]Iron-Giant16913 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Thank god for hookers

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I cant find any.

[–]Daffan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

free government mandated hookers soon, part of the Welfare Plus™ package

[–]moodyblues891 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A welfare hooker? EWW

[–]Daffan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh no son, middle class people pay taxes which pay for the premium hookers! If they send you a faulty one you can sue the government! It's a win/win

[–]moodyblues893 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol nah man just legalized it. Third world countries have hookers and their not going through the same shit we are. I asked a Colombian chick about her thoughts on “”toxic masculinity”” and she looked at me like I had 3 heads.

[–]psypD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hookers and blow. Don't forget the Blow.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. All men should stay away. Women should still not be profiting from rejecting most men.

[–]ElGupo19780 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you say people can’t afford kids , it frustrates me that the inequality in our society isn’t talked about more. Middle class values are disappearing because THE MIDDLE CLASS IS DISAPPEARING !

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, let's separate the two, shall we?

  • Chance to reproduce
  • Life partner

Because just in case you haven't noticed, they don't go hand in hand,

Let's look at the trends:

  • Birth rates are declining
  • Single parenting is increasing
  • Committed Long Term Relationships are decreasing

Does that affect millennials and gen z? Sure.

A large number? Well, I don't like that question, it can be misinterpreted. Is 1 million a large number? Sure it is. But in the context of - let's say - the population of the US (~350 millions) it's not that much; in the context of the population of the 1st world, even less so.

Let's talk in relative terms.

I would attempt the following forecasts:

  • The majority (>50%) of Mil + Z will have a chance to reproduce
  • The majority (>50%) of Mil + Z will end up without a life partner

[–]WomenAreEvilWhores103 points104 points  (156 children) | Copy Link

Sexlessness rates amongst guys in their 20s have tripled in the past 10 years so it should be pretty obvious.

Male sexlessness rate in 2008: 8%

Male sexlessness rate in 2018: 28%

That's a 3.5x increase in 10 years yet women will completely ignore how massive that is.

And then these same women will say that redpillers and incels are wrong just fucking lol.

[–]Sir_manalot50 points51 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Nah, women will just take the “you cannot fire me, I quit” approach just like they did in Japan.

Just like in Japan, people just assumed that if they made men wait long enough they will give in and settle...but that never works.

I expect us to look like Japan is now in ten or so years, people will act dumbfounded even though they know why deep down.

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’d disagree with your claims.

Japan’s situation is multi variable:

  • Working hour expectations are sky high
  • Rates of anxiety/depression/suicide are sky high
  • Shit is expensive everywhere
  • Expectations for women to be SAHMs but women are choosing otherwise.

Also, Japan utilized the tradition of arranged marriages in the pre-WW2 days. Post-WW2 however, the society/culture quickly changed along with their economic boom. A freedom of choice (with HEAVY family influence) in who you married started to become the norm. The problem here is that you have multiple generations of men who have no fucking clue how to interact with - let alone seduce - women since arranged marriages meant even base levels of game could hardly be developed. It’s no wonder Japanese media (especially anime) is full of the most socially awkward and effeminate men you’ll ever see on screen!

I briefly dated an exchange student from Japan. She said they have two types of men there: tigers and zebras...and there’s very few tigers anymore. Men just don’t seem to have the drive to persue anything outside of the cornucopia of pornographic/masturbatory/simulated sexual technologies already available there. It’s becoming more popular for Japanese girls to date foreign Korean men because those men still put effort into courting a woman.

In some ways, America is following a similar path...

[–]-mrbr1ghtside3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She said they have two types of men there: tigers and zebras...and there’s very few tigers anymore.

that sounds a lot like alpha vs beta.

[–]Sir_manalot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

None of those impact what I said. In matter of fact, they support my point (I even agree with everything you said).

I expect us to look like Japan is now in ten or so years, people will act dumbfounded even though they know why deep down.

Vs

In some ways, America is following a similar path...

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah ok! 👍I was mainly refuting this part

just like Japan, people assumed that if they made men wait long enough they will give in and settle

In my head, It came off as a unidimensional approach to explain a situation that is multidimensional in actuality.

[–]mangolover9713 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whats the reason why in your opinion?

Also Japan nor the US seems to be the “you can fire me I quit” thing at least not when talking about men and women in general. Both sides grew disillusioned with each other because neither side had what the other wanted. So both avoided and held out until things ended up the way they did. The US seems to be going the same way.

[–]md8716pp theorist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Although confronting the same problem, the U.S. won't look anything like Japan because we have a much different society.

If anything, we will have a far more chaotic and violent reaction.

[–]Sir_manalot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It will definitely be different.

The bottom 70% in Japan took “I quit” approach.

[–]mellainadiba0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

what happened in Japan. I know a bit and I am aware about a lot of japans quirks e.g. salary men, lonliness due to work, anime and hobbies

[–]Fichek0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Google Japan herbivore men.
Enjoy the reading.

[–]CoolMelonade-2 points-1 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

You mean women never decided to give up their lives to play housewives to LVM.

[–]Sir_manalot0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yep, women decided to instead spend the rest of there lives in loneliness. Spending literal thousands of dollars to rent a Boyfriend for a weekend.

[–]CoolMelonade4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

LOL this sounds like a mass projection The vast majority of women don’t give a single shit. Male attention is not hard to come by, it’s just mostly worthless.

[–]Sir_manalot1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Nope, that is actually happening in Japan.

[–]CoolMelonade2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Good thing we don’t live in Japan and have a completely different culture. I’ll fly to the Caribbean come back with a “boyfriend” for $400.

[–]siberiansummer2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I mean. I decided to stop dating completely like 2 years ago and I still have men reach out nonstop and go on dates whenever I want to

[–]reLincolnX1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's because you're awesome, dear.

[–]siberiansummer0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Awww so sweet, kind redditor ☺️

[–]reLincolnX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It must be difficult to miss slavery that much...

[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

fly to the Caribbean come back with a “boyfriend” for $400.

That ain't gonna work for long.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 25 points26 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

They will say that women are having less sex or "the economy" lol

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

They will say that women are having less sex

They’ll try to gaslight, but the stats say otherwise. Male rate of sexlessness is 28% while the female rate of sexlessness is only 18%. See here

And I bet the 18% figure for women should be even lower because women always lie about n count and discount various sex acts.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 18 points19 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the female rate of sexlessness has barely increased according to that graph. Those are self reported, so the female number is bound to be lower in reality and the male number is bound to be higher. Wouldn't be surprised if the male number was more like 45% and the female number more like 5%. Males also don't turn down free sex, so it's forced celibacy for them. Female celibacy will be voluntary.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I've turned down sex alot of times because the girl was chubby or ugly. My n count is much lower than some of my friends with lower standards.

I seem to attract 2 kinds of women. Fattys who want casual sex and cuties who want a serious relationship.

I want casual sex with a cutie. Lol.

[–]carlosfernandez37 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Get in line haha

[–]neubsWizard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't even attract a fatty who wants a serious relationship

[–]PrimaryPoem60 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wish i had your problem. The idea of cuties having romantic feelings for me is foreign.

[–]jojomcflowjo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dig

[–]obvi_imnicklachey12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Wow, what an leap you made there.

Intellectually dishonest to baselessly adjust these numbers to exaggerate whatever point you’re trying to make.

[–]AzurasStar4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He did make me laugh. "I wouldn't be surprised if 0.0001% of lying, whore women actually dont have sex, whereas 99.99% of innocent, bullied, and pure men are sexless. Just wouldn't be. Even though the stats are right there, my stats? They're not surprising."

[–]obvi_imnicklachey8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Precisely why red pill ideology will never catch on in any significant way. If it was just presented as casual dating theory, they might have a chance. But this is their MO: junk science, exaggerations, anecdotes and conjecture.

I spent half a day arguing about “80/20”, hypergamy and the wall with a man on twitter who posted 5 ( COUNT THEM 5) studies to “prove his point”. Arguing is my kink so of courseeeee I had to take an hour to read them all. Not only did not a single one of the studies prove the arguments he made, they often bolstered my arguments, and it became painfully obvious that he had NEVER actually read or analyzed these studies...and wouldn’t you know this guy has a decent following on Twitter where he spouts the exact same arguments with the exact same studies that he obviously does not understand.

The jokes write themselves.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its a hypothesis on the idea that people are less honest about their sexual lives. Women in that heavy sex is frowned on and men the opposite. Those numbers they created were to make a point that the data could be inaccurate do to dishonesty.

[–]Illimitible0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We do turn down free sex. I’m a lot older than most here at 52 and have a very high n count and have been married and divorced twice. You should see the state of most women my age, you really wouldn’t want to touch them. And yes, I have turned down an awful lot later in life. The balance of power changes if you keep yourself in shape.

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

because framing sexlessness as a serious issue that deserves a massive amount of attention is ridiculous.

Yeah women won’t think it’s serious because they don’t think that far ahead

[–]obvi_imnicklachey7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nah, you guys are just running a fools errand trying to get women in a free society to feel bad when they do have casual sex, and feel really bad when men aren’t having casual sex.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Barneysparky-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Young women are having sex with each other. It amazes me that's not obvious to you. Or you think two girls doesn't count as sex?

[–]Andesjack120 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Young women are having sex with each other

So over the course of span of only 10 years, women that were previously heterosexual suddenly decided to go lesbian.

You know that many women have already agreed and admitted that the reason is because women are sharing Chads now right?

Saying things like this just rubs salt in the wounds, especially when men know better. It’s like women are trying to insult men’s intelligence when they say things like that. Not happening, hun.

[–]Barneysparky0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The study you are citing is sex in the past year.

A friend with benefits when you are between relationships doesn't have to be a man. Explain how this fact is pouring salt on your wound?

[–]harpybitch2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

look at your username first of all. maybe there’s a reason you can’t attract a partner. decent people manage to find love pretty easily. you have this idea in your mind and you can’t admit your own faults so you just get bitter. typical male behavior.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I personally use to think I had an issue but after dating and looking at women in my life I realize why I stop dating. I didnt emjoy the company of the women I was around. Before I got to that point I was confused why I hadnt been able to date anymore. Turns out just working and being to yourself even among family makes being romantic impossible (who knew). I only miss the sex though, the butterflies a deceptive they can make you think the sky is white.

[–][deleted]  (66 children) | Copy Link

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[–]thats_abingo31 points32 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

i don’t think anyone is implying you should care specifically. but it more so speaks to some massive societal changes occurring in front of our eyes that no one seems to be discussing. and if there is gonna be massive changes to humans way of life that is potentially something to care out. if a third of some random animal species just wasn’t reproducing, biologists would probably take note and try to find out why.

[–]flvctvatnecmergitvr_11 points12 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Calhoun's Behavioral Sink

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

"Behavioral sink" is a term invented by ethologist John B. Calhoun to describe a collapse in behavior which can result from overcrowding. The term and concept derive from a series of over-population experiments Calhoun conducted on Norway rats between 1958 and 1962.[1] In the experiments, Calhoun and his researchers created a series of "rat utopias" - enclosed spaces in which rats were given unlimited access to food and water, enabling unfettered population growth. Calhoun coined the term "behavioral sink" in his February 1, 1962 report in an article titled "Population Density and Social Pathology" in Scientific American[2] on the rat experiment.[3]He would later perform similar experiments on mice, from 1968 to 1972. Calhoun's work became used as an animal model of societal collapse, and his study has become a touchstone of urban sociology and psychology in general.[4]

[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is my favorite experiment but I don't think it applies to our current society. People don't have unlimited access to resources, which I think is actually driving this sexlessness.

[–]flvctvatnecmergitvr_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Boomers saw relative access to resources after their parents came back from war and then they had millenials. Millenials, while struggling with a worse economy, are of greater size than the Boomer population. As this is your favorite experiment, you'll remember that with "overcrowding"(and I put this in parenthetical aside because humans needn't necessarily be overcrowded compared to available land but are condensed so because citys have greater commerce, which feeds humans) the rats, the subjects mated fewer times.

In places where humans are densely populated, but resources are low, humans mate at higher rates

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not gonna lie I been single for a while and havent dated. Turned out I was simply living to myself way more, work and go home and do whatever it is I want.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lots of people are living paycheck to paycheck, have insecure housing, etc. I wouldn't say that most people experience an abundance of resources outside of not starving to death.

The rats in the experiment didn't have to work to live.

[–]CML_Dark_Sun1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

That study has a bunch of problems, please read this and stop using it https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

[–]flvctvatnecmergitvr_2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you are going to post without explaining the problems, you are problematic.

[–]BurdensomeCountPronouns: he/her/theirs. Test your grammar.1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Imagine posting rationalwiki unironically. That site is the worst pseudo intellectual bad faith crap I have ever seen.

[–]CML_Dark_Sun1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's a genetic fallacy, you can't say they're wrong just because you don't like them.

[–]BurdensomeCountPronouns: he/her/theirs. Test your grammar.0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nah, the reason I don't like them is that they misrepresent and have been wrong by omission about a ton of things. This increases the probability they are wrong about this as well and looking at the page it is a completely one sided attack on the idea as usual.

To me rationalwiki represents the sort of guys who unironically believe that reality has a liberal bias (lol) and go laa laa laa can't hear you upon hearing any evidence against this idea. For example stereotype threat has been debunked far more conclusively than the idea of behavioural sinks but they don't have anything about how it is bunk; I suspect this is because stereotype threat supports a leftist model of the world while behavioural sinks don't.

[–]CML_Dark_Sun0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

When was stereotype threat debunked and where?

[–]BurdensomeCountPronouns: he/her/theirs. Test your grammar.0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

https://replicationindex.com/2017/04/07/hidden-figures-replication-failures-in-the-stereotype-threat-literature/

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/11/psychologys-replication-crisis-real/576223/

https://www.psypost.org/2018/10/study-fails-to-find-any-evidence-of-stereotype-threat-impairing-womens-cognitive-control-and-math-ability-52334

Have you even heard of the replication crisis is psychology? Stereotype Threat is the textbook example of something that fails to replicate.

The initial results were all the result of publication bias (which can be shown statistically, the distribution of published effect sizes arising from a real effect is different to the distribution of published effect sizes when there is no real effect but only studies which randomly show significance get published, stereotype threat clearly fell into the second bucket).

[–]Nearby-Armadillo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

that no one seems to be discussing.

Literally every corner of the internet is discussing this ad nauseum

[–]harpybitch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

because MEN WON’T DO ANYTHING TO BE VIABLE PARTNERS.

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

why is it childish? is it childish to be upset over the gender pay gap?

[–]SaintERosa4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That doesnt really exist. Job types and hours make a huge difference.

[–]averagedude42 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gender pay gap doesn’t exist. Men make more because they go into more technically challenging work. Women who do go into these technical jobs are given the same pay and it’s even easier for them to get hired.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]johnxwalkerNo Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't have such unrealistic expectations and standards for one but no.

[–]psypD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean i wouldnt mind. But only if your consenting

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

What is your solution?

[–][deleted]  (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are no government mandated educational quotas (with respect to admission of students). Is this seriously how you're trying to accept the fact that women are more academically successful while still maintaining the belief we're inherently inferior? Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Are you trying to say that the existence of gender quotas in some departments in some companies (that are only in place to offset hiring biases) makes it so that all women can just proceed effortlessly through life? These gender quotas maybe assist less than 1% of the female population, considering they're mainly for corporate boards and managerial positions in industries with a severe dearth of women.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your original point was that women in general are being walked through life, when the things you're complaining about maybe help ~5% (at the very most) of women.

Also, do you really believe that women are not discriminated negatively against when you yourself hold prejudiced beliefs about women? Hilarious.

[–]johnxwalkerNo Pill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Strawman alert lol.

[–]MerryVegetableGardenPost-TRP2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

As a woman of color with a projected 510+ MCAT score, you’ve got med school on lockdown. A white or ORM male couldn’t say the same with similar scores. You’ll have a spot secured over guys with better scores because of the PP.

[–][deleted]  (16 children) | Copy Link

[removed]

[–]MyThoughtsOnNeogaf15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you want girls to stop having so much sex? Wouldn’t that make the sexlessness rates increase even more? Do you actually think before you type?

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

According to OP, we're not whores and cumrags.

There's more women than man, and a smaller percentage of women are sexless, so...

[–]MooseKabo0se/s. 21f1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's a 1% difference in population my dude.

[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which makes the difference in sexlessness all the greater. The bigger the difference in population, the more noteworthy it is for the larger group to be better/worse in any area.

[–]gigababejflPink Pill6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, this is a great way to motivate women to take on your cause. More misogyny to trigger more disgust. Nice going!

[–]johnxwalkerNo Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What misogyny are you talking about?.

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

No sex for you

[–]SureKale2-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm one of the men having plenty of sex with these stupid bimbos but that doesn't mean I like it

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doubtful.

[–]MyThoughtsOnNeogaf4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No you’re not. No one that has to say “I have plenty of sex” actually has sex

[–]skystar863 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Actions speak louder than words. It's like if I ate pickles all the time and said I hate them. Obviously my actions would show I'm lying.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you hated pickles, but they were the only food available and you didn't have any bodyfat to support you, would you still not eat them?

Edit: downvoted. And there's my answer!

[–]Barneysparky0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then why don't you stop?

[–]asdf333aza17 points18 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women would rather all share a Chad

[–]AutisticLurker11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are the ultimate cucks

[–]_Neon_Shadow_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Funny username btw.

[–]pale5ei0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In your argument it comes out as if sexlesness is something a male has no control over, a condition to fall a victim to.

Should women, instead of ignoring these numbers (percentage of young male population without sex), start reacting to them by having sex with losers just for the sake of driving the number down?

This follows the laws of supply and demand. If you are without intimacy it’s nobody else’s but your responsibility do something about it if you would like for it to change.

If the numbers are to be trusted, the reason behind them might be women heightening their standards when it comes to closing their partners. Good chance for the 28% to take a look in the mirror and see if for example their only expectation, when it comes to interacting with the opposite sex, is to get laid.

[–]skystar86-4 points-3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Because men decided to be imo

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because men decided to be imo

There we go, that’s the gaslighting I was talking about

[–]BillyDauterivePurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really because women are the gatekeepers of sex.

[–]missileBellum omnium contra omnes16 points17 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Maybe, but I don't think the 80:20 success gap will be the main culprit. It's a true phenomenon, but like most of the things we discuss here has been blown out of proportion.

I think:

  1. Fewer men will reproduce, but the most important factor in this will be the rise in childfree nihilism
  2. Most gen z + millennial men will settle down, though I would bet that in a majority of couples the woman will be more sexually experienced than the man. This probably won't matter all that much.
  3. The trend towards having fewer kids will continue but likely reach an asymptote. Conservative and religious subpopulations of all ethnic groups will enjoy relatively higher reproductive success.

[–]ffbtaw25 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

childfree nihilism

incels pretending to be volcels.

[–]Sir_manalot7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Marriage will keep declining until it dies.

People assume that men will just take it, but history has shown that never actually happens. The only way to get men to keep submitting is to keep lying more and more...but that is already starting to unravel.

When men get shafted in relationships, they start losing interest in it. It is a gradual process.

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men work for pussy, at the end of the day. Especially in the West. You get in shape a good job etc. to get a good wife. When increasing numbers of men have no hope and no realistic chances at improving their situation, things will get bad. The government wants to pacify men through feminism, porn, weed, etc. Its working for now but not forever.

If I had no chance of getting laid I'd be mad as hell. As the "incel" category moves further and further up the SES ladder and looks category (80/20 rule intensifying) expect changes.

[–]SaintERosa4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Government is facilitating further with allowing women to retain a great amount of power in a marraige. Losing all your stuff and being committed to a child you arent guarenteed to be yours and even so may be unable to spend time with if your woman is an ass or scared if you. Marraige is a bad idea, in the way it is done today. It needs to protect men more and to do so would simply require reduction in court biases towards women and not milking men for their children.

[–]GrandmasterIncel2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly what is happening.

I am 29 and still a virgin.

I have been retaining my semen for now 1 year.

I have absolutely no more respect for how things are nowadays and even most people nowadays, especially the giant kindergarten they call government and society.

If they do not make sexbots and actual good VR porn or legalize prostitution I estimate incels taking over in less than 20 years.

People are waking up and realizing how bad things are.

I am one of the hardest worker I know and I get treated like shit by current society, giving my all to it and refusing no actual benefits outside of cash.

Meanwhile lazy Chad give nothing to it and receive everything.

This game is worthless.

So now that I give zero fucks and make no efforts what the hell is going to happen to society when millions of men decide to follow?

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have sympathy for you guys. You're probably right that society will collapse. It's not just ugly guys that can't get laid anymore.

Alot of guys aren't getting laid and men are no longer working together to help out less advantaged friends. It's every man for himself.

Incels should be mad as hell. I would be angry if I couldn't get laid. I hope we can reform society to something liberal, yet more just in its mating preferences.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm from a tradcon background (evangelical Christian, not amish or anything crazy) and I can confirm that they are still pumping out babies like mad.

The normal person fertility rate must be very low, because there are alot of Christians having alot of babies. Yet fertility overall is still way below replacement levels.

[–]Antifeg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I'm from Poland (almost whole ethnically white and 95% christian) and we have 7th lowest birthrates in the world. In our case it's probably mostly economics (poor country, many young people emigrate to western europe etc. because they can't afford flats, so ofc no babies) but social changes too (contrary to what people on the internet say Poland is pretty progressive socially, in bad ways too - women, especially from bigger cities, don't want to have children and much more young girls than men go to big cities, get to affirmative action higher education or corporations). Hard to say. It's too complicated to just answer in 2 sentences but yea demographics are destiny, if we don't have enough babies someone who has will come and replace us.

[–]GlaucusTheCuredOne0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The future of western europe is islam for this exact same reason. Declining birth rates from a biological standpoint for any group of animals would indicate are no longer healthy. Western people are diseased, be it in mind or body, and we will be replaced by more evolutionary fit groups of people.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its definitely a mental thing. Societal norms and changes are becoming soo skewed into deprevity and selfishness on both sides.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True ive been deromanticized. I dont want kids, nor a real romantic partner. Naturally id have sex with a woman but anything beyond will not be very compromising.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The issue with increased sexuality is it tends toward making romantic partners more difficult. In a family centered way particularly. More and more single parent homes with it being mothers having the majority of custody, seeing the increased sexual activity of women and increased single motherhood is concerning as they corrilate and seperately have been studied and can completely be related. The issue of society is that we dont need each other like we use to (even if much of it was artificial at some point). The thing is, now women can have access to men theyd want more than the average joe aka mr. Sexless. However that pool of better men (in theory with resources and other markers of power and success) tends to be overpopulated with women of varying degrees (even below average women whom have no business dealing with a highly attractive and powerful man). I myself am most likely average, most women do not seem interested in me from a social media perspective by I guess having a llama profile pic doesnt have thw same affrect as my low end dad bod.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Please keep in mind that the dudes who are finding partners aren't sharing their experiences on the same forums as dudes who can't find partners, so there's a chance that your window of observation might not be showing the bigger picture.

But to answer your questions of do I think many of them will end up without a life partner? yes. Being alone is becoming more of a widely accepted lifestyle. Technology is filling the void and soon this may become a norm for many.

But will men be without a chance to reproduce? Well, maybe not with the partner they dreamed of having lol but unless they're physically incapable, then any man absolutely has a shot at reproduction with some woman out there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Please keep in mind that the dudes who are finding partners aren't sharing their experiences on the same forums as dudes who can't find partners, so there's a chance that your window of observation might not be showing the bigger picture.

The statistics show the full picture

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NewWayNow47 points48 points  (56 children) | Copy Link

They guys you speak of will get a partner when they are a little older and more established. The high-notch-count party girls will retire from the party lifestyle at about age 30 and seek beta providers. These guys fit the bill perfectly.

Fifteen years later, the women will have affairs, divorce the men and take all their stuff. At that point the guys will be alone once again.

Such is the cycle of life.

[–]BillyDauterivePurple Pill Man28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And thus why MGTOW is apparently catching on.

[–]ivy17615 points16 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Men do that just as much. Sleep around, try to settle down at 30 or above, then cheat and have affairs, become abusive, start struggling with employment etc.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Men do that just as much. Sleep around, try to settle down at 30 or above, then cheat and have affairs, become abusive, start struggling with employment etc.

Yes. This is entirely true. I watched my stepdad divorce rape my own mom who was the breadwinner. Guys absolutely are just as bad when they can be.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The fact is 96% of men pay alimony. It is not common for the woman to be a breadwinner.

[–]Sekina72 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because the women is RAISING THE KIDS.?! All you do is prove why it's a safer bet for women to forgo having kids , earn their own money or settle only for men who can AFFORD to have kids and support the woman that does so and the kids because if the man walks away or messes up the burden of the child care still falls on the woman and it's HER career and future love prospects that take the hit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you stupid? Alimony has nothing to do with having children, that is child support. It is literally paying the spouse who made less income in the marriage. Hundreds of thousands of women with no children receive alimony payments to this day.

[–]Sekina70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How polite you are-I am far from stupid but Alimony is on the premise of keeping the partner in the lifestyle they have been accustomed to and require a certain level of finance to maintain. Especially in the more often than not case where the man cheats etc, he does not get to pluck a young attractive woman, use and abuse her then cheat and expect her to stay or opt to discard her and leave her at square one, in a lot of cases the WOMAN has given up her earning potential etc to support the man and the household, with or without kids. A lot of men who can afford alimony usually prefer or insist on their wives do not work. This is also the case the other way around. WHY you felt the need to respond is such a rude and emotionally triggered way is beyond me ...relax.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Youre correct. My point was to imply that men are just as likely to divorce rape if that's actually an option for them.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]ivy1762 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How so? Majority of guys on tinder and trying to party and hookup are early 20s

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 7 points8 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

Has this happened to many boomer and gen x men?

[–]CentralAdmin13 points14 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

The divorce rate was much higher a decade or two ago because of all the Boomers getting divorced.

[–]Red_Pill_Dynamics15 points16 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Divorce rate is still roughly 50 - 55% depending on where you live in the U.S.

80% of the time the woman will file FIRST.

Statistically speaking, marriage is a bad deal for men and it isn't likely to get better.

To answer OP's question, gen z'ers chances of finding a life partner are pretty much the same as every other man's if that guys willing to put in the work, they think the juice is worth the squeeze and they're ready & prepared for it to go south one day.

As for women? Well, they'll ALWAYS want men to commit.

The secret is not doing it.

[–]ivy1762 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

A lot of us don't live in any state of the US

[–]Red_Pill_Dynamics0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Then you'd have to research your countries divorce rates and court proceedings, but as a man, you're likely to get shafted at some point by the socialist/feminist based & female biased courts.

[–]ivy1765 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm in Australia, a woman, paid for 100% of my divorce and lost out financially. Divorced due to abuse. My mother lost in divorce and divorced due to cheating and abuse. My aunt divorced due to cheating and financial abuse, she didn't suffer too badly but didn't benefit at all - she paid the ex out a reasonable amount, she owned the home first. I have a friend who is getting divorced - they earned similar amounts but husband demanded she pay half all mortgage/bills plus all groceries and kids stuff, so he paid no school fees/kids clothes/kids items ir groceries. They are selling the house and splitting things somewhat fairly but it can't be fair because she has been paying more of the cost of living for 10 years.

I have also been in the court system due to domestic violence and nobody favoured me at any stage and he was not convicted of anything. So I just paid for the divorce application and gave him thousands of dollars cash to bribe him to get out of my house because I couldn't legally kick him out due to squatter rights and lack of proof of domestic violence happening at the current time. They said past abuse wasn't grounds to have him removed, and by past I mean 2 months prior

So I can't relate.

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sorry you had to go through all that.

Can I ask something? What is the standard, generally agreed upon definitions of the various types of abuse in Australia?

[–]ivy1761 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Domestic violence laws actually include verbal abuse in some states. But I'm personally speaking specifically of physical violence in my post, like blocking access, restraint, pushing, shoving, slapping, punching, throwing objects at people, destroying property, using weapons obviously, etc (when it is not genuine self defence).

Sexual abuse would obviously be acts of assault or rape. But in terms of family violence, it can be more of an "invisible" issue. For example, in my state, sexual abuse in a relationship or marriage was defined as "indecent behaviour to the other person without consent" which minimizes the assault to more like an inappropriate behaviour rather than rape. I'd say most people would agree spouses can sexually assault or rape each other, but it wouldn't be looked upon like being raped by someone you're not in a relationship with, in general. I don't agree with that, but that is how it'd be viewed by plenty of people.

In my view, sexual abuse in a relationship would also include, without consent, trying to coerce someone to do certain acts or giving punishment if they refuse. Removing condoms without asking and without consent. Deliberate damage to condoms without the other person being aware. Lying about being on birth control. Lying about not having STIs. Cheating on a partner and then giving your partner an STI. People could sleep around even with a condom, likely get HPV or herpes as condoms don't protect against them, then give it to partner. Not only that, but disgusting people do it without even a condom as well. No one would be tested for genital herpes unless they had a lesion and got it swabbed, and men won't be tested for HPV at all. Then there are other STIs that take weeks to be tested for, so even if someone got tested afterwards, it's still quite likely they can pass on an STI. I don't know exactly how laws work with these things though.

Generally, a lot of things are used to support protection orders and not necessarily convicted offences.

Financial abuse:

"5.31 Only some jurisdictions include ‘economic abuse’ in their definition of family violence—namely Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

5.32 There are some differences in the precise formulations of economic abuse. It may include, for example:

unreasonable controlling behaviour without consent that denies a person financial autonomy; withholding financial support reasonably necessary for the maintenance of a partner; coercing a partner to relinquish control over assets; unreasonably preventing a person from taking part in decisions over household expenditure or the disposition of joint property; coercing the person to claim social security payments; and preventing the person from seeking or keeping employment.[39]"

In my case, financial abuse was my ex refusing to work for many years and spending my money without permission. I could not support him long term on my wage and didn't agree for him to be dependent on me, he provided no type of domestic labour whatsoever and he found my credit cards and would record the numbers so he could buy things online without asking me.

Emotional and psychological abuse:

"5.37 Both the Victorian and South Australian family violence legislation defines emotional or psychological abuse as well as giving examples of such abuse. The Victorian family violence legislation defines emotional or psychological abuse as behaviour that ‘torments, intimidates, harasses or is offensive’.[48]Examples of such behaviour include racial taunts, threatening to disclose a person’s sexual orientation or to commit suicide, preventing a person from keeping family and cultural connections, and threatening to withhold a person’s medication.[49] The South Australian family violence legislation defines emotional or psychological harm as including mental illness, nervous shock, and distress, anxiety or fear that is more than trivial.[50]Examples of such conduct include threatening to institutionalise the person and threatening to withdraw care on which the person is dependent.[51]

5.38 In contrast, Western Australian family violence legislation includes ‘emotionally abusive conduct’, but neither defines nor gives examples of such conduct.[52]

5.39 Emotional abuse or intimidation under the Tasmanian legislation is defined as the pursuit of ‘a course of conduct that he or she knows, or ought to know, is likely to have the effect of unreasonably controlling or intimidating, or causing mental harm, apprehension or fear, in his or her spouse’.[53]

5.40 Other legislation refers to conduct that is intimidating,[54]harassing[55] or offensive.[56]Intimidation is defined variously to include conduct that: causes reasonable apprehension or fear;[57] a reasonable apprehension of injury[58] or violence to the person or the person’s property;[59]has the effect of unreasonably controlling the person or causing mental harm;[60] causes physical harm;[61] prevents the person from doing any act that the person is lawfully entitled to do or compels the person to do an act that the person is legally entitled to abstain from;[62] and conduct that amounts to harassment or molestation.[63] Intimidation is usually included either as a subcategory of emotional abuse or as a ground of family violence in its own right. Similarly, in some cases harassment and offensive behaviour are treated as subcategories of emotional abuse or of intimidation, while in other cases they form an aspect of family violence in their own right."

I'd say most people would generally view verbal/psychological/emotional abuse as name calling, shouting at, swearing at - particularly if it systematic or regular behaviour. I mean if my voice gets a bit louder during an argument because I'm frustrated and the person's talking over me then I don't view that as "abuse" even though it's negative. But if I was to just start yelling at my partner or calling him names, saying fuck you etc etc, that would be abusive to me. Obviously threatening people would be commonly viewed as abusive, in terms of threatening harm, to damage property, to take someones property away, to take necessary things away that the person is entitled to, to take away pets or children where there has been no abuse to warrant attempting to take them away...

For me, personally, I think being highly manipulative is psychological abuse. For example, gaslighting, trying to convince a person they're crazy when they speak the truth or try to find resolution. Completely denying things that happened (like hitting somebody, or spending money without permission).

There are also separate categories for stalking, breaching protection orders, property damage and abuse of animals that all fall under family violence laws in various ways depending on state. Harm to pets falls under property damage in some states, but in others it can fall under more general family violence and emotional abuse.

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. Thanks for the thorough info! Can I ask another?

I know Australia’s day-to-day culture is, compared to the states, faaaar less political. However, do you see the issues that we discuss on this sub emerging more in your cultural zeitgeist as well? I would imagine it is, evidenced by the fact that you are here, regularly posting on PPD.

[–]EGOtyst1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

50-55% is a bit of a misnomer, though.

It is much closer to 30% for first marriages.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]EGOtyst2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm really normally not a stickler for sources. A heavy portion of arguments don't rely on data, but are conceptual.

But this is actual data. And this guy cites.... nothing that I can find.

[–]sadomasochristNo pull out game4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I wrote it, it's from USG stats for macro, it's all noted in the discussion.

[–]Innovative_being3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You might have a point here.

I've always wondered if the anger directed at betabux is just incels angry that they are now 35 and still can"t get laid, even as a betabux!

I'm a natural beta learning to LARP as an alpha lol. But if worst comes to worst, I'll be betabux with a big house and a prenup. At least I'll have a nice house and cars.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]malevirgin1000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We are bitter because women and life experiences made us this way.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“No!!! Wrong!!!! Those guys who get old will be plowing through 20 year old girls!!!!! The wall is only for women, not men!!!!” - some incel probably

[–]2LitreBugattiBieber0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Seems like bullshit IMO. I doubt somebody who has their life together is weak enough to have their partners cheat and divorce them. The whole marriage stat about divorce etc is usually blown out of proportion by the shitty Vegas marriages, marriages because of baby’s and marriages from desperate betas trying to lock a guy/girl down.

Usually the high notch women I’ve known dating longterm have just settled down, they don’t really cheat or anything just have kids and live a boring life. It sounds like you’re getting your sex stats from college parties that you have probably never been to.

[–]NewWayNow2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like you have a lot of life yet to live.

[–]GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B53 points54 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

On average, both men and women from those generations (millennial guy here) don't bring a lot to the table. Women at least are told they're worth something while men are being shit on constantly. But the truth is, I don't think women have it much easier. Sure, they can have plenty meaningless sex, but real partnership? That's hard to come by these days, and it is for various reasons.

There seems to be an oversupply of loser men on the market, just like there seems to be an oversupply of narcissistic entitlement princesses. It mostly comes down to character and upbringing. The previous generations brought up men and women in ways that are entirely unattractive to each other. Men are losers and women are bloodsuckers. No amount of physical attractiveness fixes that.

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

From my end, there are alot of loser men. Lots of drug addicts, potheads, minimum wage workers. Shitty economic circumstances causing low income I won't judge them for. But being poor doesn't mean you can't lift or have to smoke weed all day. Nothing stopping a low income guy from doing day game (free) and taking girls on cheap dates, having a clean apartment, etc.

[–]carlosfernandez311 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk about that. I know a lot of fit, social guys with good jobs who still struggle

[–]SaintERosa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that just sounds like the wrong environment to even date in. I work and make good money but women ignore me in the world.

[–]OddButton6Purple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are loser women and men. Just make an average female profile on any dating app and you will see.

[–]SaintERosa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are told they are valued if they can provide unconditionally to women and their families. And from a moral and ethical perspective this should be so, but women have such a laxed value system that just says "me woman". That doesnt make you valuable, you are human yes so you deserve dignity and a base of respect (until otherwise proven) but your vigina isnt that valuable. Women can offer a lot: sex, socialization, support/motivation (just feeling loved by you makes a decent man get things done), cooperation, a person to have a family with and to raise that family with and money. But those things have to be proven in the fire of life which has hardships and may have complete road blocks. But often a woman just offers sex and an image with debt and that sex and image may not exist when it really matters.

[–]Sir_manalot17 points18 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

There seems to be an oversupply of loser men

People only lose when we want/make them lose.

Men can win at any time really, all you have to do is give them the power to allow them to take the responsibility. They will then quickly man up and be what people want them to be.

But sadly, people now feel entitled to good men because they take them for granted. So people are refusing to own up to there own responsibility while getting mad that men are unable to take responsibility themselves.

They keep making it so it is harder and harder to win while diminishing the rewards for winning.

It is kind of similar to getting mad at a homeless man for not being able to get a job. Yeah, sure he can technically try and perhaps some will get lucky enough to get an opportunity. But the only real path the average homeless guy has is if someone helps him get a job. He cannot even get a good shirt for the interview...

And before someone says “he just has to man up and be confident.” It takes experience and empowerment for that to happen. TRP does help with that, but men are going to end up unwilling to be what others want when they find out how badly they were purposefully failed. They will either say “f this” or just use the knowledge to selflessly use women.

Women on the other hand are being spoiled rotten because people want to use them as sex toys and a way to control men. Many women do not understand or care about this until they are too old for it to matter anymore.

[–]drsherbert13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Responsibility without authority = slavery

[–]chocolatefondant216 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women do not want men to have power.

[–]red-tea-rex1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I like the homeless guy analogy. Poor bastard literally gets no help. Meanwhile if he had tits and a v all he would have to do is have a kid. Then the state would provide money, food, housing, free medical care, free tuition for job training, job placement assistance, and free daycare for the crotchfruit. You women have the golden ticket in your slot.

[–]SaintERosa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And they can completely fail to progress yet be seen with pitty while a man would be a loser (and honestly if you have the ability to grow and choose not to, you are a dead tree, we have seasons but even those change to bare fruit).

[–]Auspexel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This summarises the red pill mindset to the tee. Saving

[–]red-tea-rex6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget that society openly sabotages men in addition to using shaming language like "losers". From where I'm standing there is a fine line between losers and victims. If men are smart they will organize a revolution over this shit and take back what's theirs:

Almost all female teachers K-12 grading girls higher (there are studies when there are female teachers and they don't know the gender of the students they grade boy's work higher than if they did know their gender), education system itself discouraging boys from excelling by catering to girls specifically, college attendance and graduation rates on the decline for men, whereas women pushing 60 percent of grads, title 9 kangaroo courts kicking out men for interacting with the wrong woman, preferential hiring for women in all-female run HR departments, Presidential executive orders codifying that preferential hiring resulting in overt female quotas (Lily Ledbetter Act, etc) and suddenly qualified, average but not top tier men are displaced by absolutely mediochre women and now we get to call the men "losers" because loser-grade women took their jobs.

[–]AnActualPerson1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you mean by what's theirs?

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is an oversupply of unemployed men yes. Not saying that if they all got jobs they would be 100% satisfied with prospective female partners, but women are looking to marry employed men. The decline of male employment and marriage has been going on since about 2000.

[–]Hal_Inceldenza1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As one of those Doomer men I have to say that this is pretty spot on. Millenials truly are the lost generation of our new century and maybe the living wake-up call for upcoming ones.

[–]harpybitch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

have you ever talked to a woman who isn’t part of the mainstream culture? we aren’t really empowered in meaningful ways. you may feel left behind by society but at least you’re not being told your only value is as a sex object. :~)

[–]DangZagnut13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure they will, if they want them. Why they would want them in the first place I have no idea.

You'll have plenty of opportunities to knock up a chick and have babies as soon as she's done having her "fun".

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country48 points49 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think so. At least not in the sense they won't have a chance. After a certain age women's tastes "magically" change and men that used to be undesirable suddenly become good targets prospects for marriage and kids. You will notice that while 1 in 3 men couldnt get laid within a year, the same isn't true for the older age groups and that 95+ % of men get married at least once in their lives.

The question is whether men will want to go through the whole ordeal now that they are more aware of the mechanics behind it and the likelihood and consequences of that not working out.

[–]Sir_manalot13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep.

It will be interesting to see what Gen Z and the generation after do.

Millennials are not figuring out the truth about women at young ages, so I doubt the full impacts of men starting to catch on to women’s game will be felt.

[–]toughenup20165 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Men and women. Not just men. That's where we are and increasing...

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is directly correlated with men being out of the workforce in larger numbers compared to earlier generations. Despite changes in employment trends, women remain steadfast in that they do not want a spouse who is not working full time.

And with COVID looks like it's just going to get worse!

[–]ontherailstoday4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A lot of gen x men didn't partner up until their 30s. And a lot of gen X is fat. Gen X are specialists at making do with the deal that history has allowed them... which generally means having less of everything than the boomers did... resources, opportunities, pandering to their desires etc... but also having an acute sense of what there is left and why you should grab it with both hands, enjoy it fully and not let go.

If gen z as a generation wants the same results as gen x you need to be willing to make of the sort of compromises gen x made... which means stop whining about not getting her "best years" and stop whining about her being fat and stop whining that she has her own life too and doesn't treat you like king dick all the time... and just be grateful you've got the chance to find another human being to help you pay the rent and walk the dog and laugh at bad tv with. Not willing to make those compromises? Stop comparing yourself to gen x. You're nothing like gen x.

[–]sparklingscott4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Gen x is like the poster child of what not to do. I think id rather die alone than have what my dad did.

[–]ontherailstoday0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes well, we are all of our era and must cope with the challenges that brings. Except apparently the OP who seems to think he can reasonably have a good old whine about somehow his lot in life being a downgrading of what gen x got.

[–]SameForReddit0820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Not a brutal, vicious Chad? Tough shit, either get willing to take the risks Chad takes or shut the fuck up. If you're not Chad, learn to like morbidly obese women. Learn to be OK with being with functional meth addicts. Learn to deal with that kind of shit and MAYBE you can not wind up dying a virgin. Doesn't matter if you're rich, fit, etc...brutality, savagery, and viciousness is where it's at. Sorry to say, boys. Go to war if you have the chance, or better yet join a gang or something.

[–]WilliamAllen524 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not saying this to just play “devil’s advocate” or “poke the bear/beehive” or whatever... But my response to this question/information would be:

“Even if they don’t find LTR’s and do not reproduce, is that really considered to be objectively bad?”

Like if men go their own way, they are getting exactly what they want out of life. That seems like a pretty positive outcome to me. And as a byproduct they will avoid contributing to things like failed marriages, single-parent households, and (potentially) overpopulation.

[–]SaintERosa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Overpopulation is very regional. Consumerism is the real issue.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It will destroy society if men aren't willing to contribute to it. This has been proven repeatedly throughout history that if young men have no incentive, the civilization becomes ultra violent. Now we do live in the modern era, so that is unlikely to happen. What is more likely is the west will turn into Japan with herbivore men. This is creating a massive burden on the Japanese economy. Currently COVID is having a worse impact, but Japan has had this problem for a decade now.

[–]skullirang4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Will men have trouble finding a life partner? Yes research has found that dating apps cause people to swipe more and commit less. Even though women have other source of information, they do use apps like Tinder to determine just how attractive they are, so if they see they are regularly matching with very attractive men, their sense of worth will match that and they will test the waters to see if they can land these high value men.

So what will happen is there will be these relatively "lower value men" who are courting women and the woman will remain in the dating market longer than usual. The study also mentioned commitment level being a variable that affects infidelity.

Moreover, using a dating app while in a committed relationship may result in a lower level of commitment and the pursuit of other romantic partners, given that the odds for developing a committed relationship with another dating app user were significantly higher for mobile dating app users in a committed relationship compared to single users (Timmermans & Courtois, 2018). In general, those who were using a mobile dating app while in a committed relationship were found more likely to be seeking casual sexual encounters, satisfying their curiosity about the current dating market, and understanding their own value as a potential dating partner compared to single dating app users.

Basically, less attractive a guy is, the less committed a woman is. And since dating apps tend to skew women's perception of attractive men, it will also skew their commitment level to the average man, hence, they will stay in the dating market more. This means less life partners for average men in their younger years.

As some other people have stated, the women eventually realize their true attractiveness level and eventually settle down with a guy that matches their attractiveness level. Since guys' attractiveness tend to go up as they age, there is a golden zone where previously highly attractive females on their way down meet with average males on their way up. It's a little sad, but it satisfies a demand in the dating market and people hook up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea I agree with this sentiment.

The red pillers exaggerate that the men have to wait until 30. But they are right that no one dates seriously and considers settling until after college

[–]geo_gan3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To all the women here now saying “lol, why should we care if you losers don’t get any sex, we get as much as we want and that’s all that matters”... I can’t wait until the virtual reality sex technology improves in next few years and the virtual women are magnitudes better than the real thing.

Think of Ready Player One or Bladerunner as examples of what is coming) and most men turn to that instead.

I predict massive cries from women saying “it’s not fair... we can’t compete with absolute virtual perfection in females!”

And feminists forcing laws to ban this new competition using any excuse they think of to redirect men’s attention and more importantly for women their money/resources back to far from perfect real women.

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, there's already that anime girl getting way more views on cam sites than actual girls and the camgirls are fucking PISSED. Just imagine that going widespread. The only way to fix gender dynamics is for us to invent realistic sexbots so that women are forced to develop a personality order face a very lonely and miserable life.

[–]boatyscxslave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like a revenge fantasy. Women won't need men, they will work or let daddy government take care of them.

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy47 points48 points  (80 children) | Copy Link

Why would a man even want a Millennial or Gen-Z woman as a life partner?

Please explain that. Why walk into that kind of hyper transactional, mercenary shitshow? Nothing good is ever coming of that.

The big problem isn't finding a relationship. It's what happens after you get into one. THAT is where you get screwed, badly.

[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Online/app dating has inflated many womens' expectations and standards and made them incompatible with average men. The men that women can date and and get validation from have become so much better than the men that would actually have a serious relationship with them.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man27 points28 points  (72 children) | Copy Link

Why would a man even want a Millennial or Gen-Z woman as a life partner?

Because having a life partner makes bad days better, good days better, and just overall gives you love and support when you need it the most?

Admittedly, it brings its own challenges with it. Personally I still find maintaining relationship to be basically the hardest thing I've ever done. But also the most rewarding one. Each day I feel like I've become a better person because of my partner.

[–]red-tea-rex5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree it's a lot of work, but I also believe a good partnership is one in which they support each other and work to make one another's life easier. This is where the expression behind every good man is "an even better woman" comes from. It is hyperbole, but hints at a traditional role that sadly most gen x, y, z women weren't taught: you are on a team with your partner, not in competition. You don't win unless he wins spectacularly. It doesn't mean you can't have a career and have tremendous professional success. What it means is there will come a time when you are almost completely dependent on him (during early child rearing) and without that earlier foundation of you supporting him in his aspirations and building him up however you can, you will become a terrible burden on him during this later phase, enough to sink the ship so to speak. Men statistically achieve the most professional success as married men once their first child is born. It's no coincidence.

Then there's the tragic "seven year itch", the common break point in a marriage with children. When the child reaches not completely dependent stage, and therefore the wife is not completely dependent on the husband for child rearing support, age 5+, the already broken marriage officially ends.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just as a correction, it's not at all the only configuration for how to manage a team of two that the man makes big bucks and the woman just focuses on helping in that.

Other than that, sure, I'd agree with this. But the way you presume the exact dynamic between the two people just unnerves me a bit.

[–]red-tea-rex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nowhere in my post did I mention money. I'm talking about biology and emotion and acts of kindness. If you marry a man because he's a king in your eyes, and you show him you believe it, he will treat you like a queen. I have run from relationships and never looked back when the woman assumed the worst of me, or when the going got tough she henpecked and sabotaged rather than trusted and supported.

Best expression I ever heard was there are two types of people in the world, problem solvers and problem causers. I believe when women are raised with entitlement they become problem causers.

And to the money point, if you don't support a man in his pursuits, you don't deserve him. Even if you make more than him, your job is to support him if you expect him to support you when you need him to.

[–]OccasionallyFuckedLavender Pill12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

True. But there are good and there are bad partners. It’s not a matter of “all men bad all women bad,” it’s a matter of how difficult it is to find a good match nowadays. It’s so much easier for women to find Chads thanks to the internet, so average dudes become more invisible. The chads and simps promote OnlyFans bullshit which further decreases the pool of good candidates for both sexes.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm just gonna make a wild bet that you would not in any world end up in a happy relationship with a woman that's looking for chads and has onlyfans page, so I'm not sure why you care about those women.

[–]obvi_imnicklachey6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmfao exactly.

Most people, male and female, are not promiscuous by any means. Yet the slut haters in this subreddit are convinced all hope is lost because apparently only sex workers and strippers exist anymore.

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

With 50% odds of that whole dreamy thing turning into a steaming puddle of boiling shit when she changes "I do" to "I don't". She goes off with the kids and the guy keeps paying for a family he no longer has (her expenses as well) and he has no extra resources to start again if he can even afford a place to live. Women don't keep vows anymore. They walk away from marriages when things get a little difficult, or they simply change their minds. "Until death do us part" is lies in a church. Women like getting married these days, but they don't seem to like staying married.

What's the point of such a serious financially crippling agreement when one party can just grab all the cash and walk away?

PFT. Only an idiot would sign up for that shit sandwich of a deal twice. One and ONE for me!

[–]theoracleofosiris4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having a good life partner does those, having a shitty one inverses those.

[–]NewWayNow5 points6 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

Because having a life partner makes bad days better, good days better, and just overall gives you love and support when you need it the most?

In what world? Most relationships are a constant power struggle at some level and do not bring real value to the participants.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

All I can tell you is, pick better relationships.

That's however kinda the irony of TRP, even if one tries their very best to only take good bits of that culture, they will fail to teach you to have some sorta solid, healthy foundation for a relationship. So at best you get some kinda superficial resemblance to a good relationship that is rotten deep inside, and where you will need to constantly be patching things so it remains an endless energy sink without giving much any satisfaction back. So I get that.

But you don't need to try to take trp seriously.

[–]red-tea-rex4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with your point. One problem with TRP is it focuses on women's shallowness and narcissism (admittedly rampant in millennial/gen z) but completely overlooks it in the men of the same generation. I mean social media/online dating did a number on both sexes. And shallowness/narcissism does not a real let alone healthy, functional, or realistic relationship make. Speaking as a red piller, TRP needs to tone down their victim narrative.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Victim narrative however is the defining point that defines trp. Remove that and you'd just end up with just another generic self-improvement / dating guide thing. And not even a very good one I don't think. The whole concept is based around this dark bitter truth that is kept from you and that you have to swallow, that's the red pill metaphor. If you aren't a victim, if people aren't trying to bring you down and probably shoot down your gender, you lose the core concept of the place.

[–]red-tea-rex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I personally take from it what I want. PUA was useful to understand attraction. MRA was useful in putting to words what I always felt about the family courts. And MGTOW was what replaced stigma with acceptance if I choose not to participate in marriage. Coming from the last few years of Gen X, I experienced bits of the good times (more of the traditional values) right as they were fading away, so I don't include myself in the victim category. Even as a beta by physique my personality/intelligence got me female attention, dates and relationships. But nothing turbocharged it like the IDGAF attitude and self work from PUA. Plus MGTOW2 subreddit is full of success stories. There's so much more to TRP including self actualization.

[–]WastingOrchid9 points10 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

Do you have virtually anything to back that up besides your own beliefs? Married people are generally happier, healthier, and live longer than their counterparts. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa13 points14 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

With 50% odds they are going to be generally less happy, less healthy and die sooner... Hmm.... And what about the people who never married in the first place? Pretty happy... the few that I know. The only people who doubt their happiness are people who are afraid to live alone and need their bed buddy because teddy bears don't cut it anymore.

[–]WastingOrchid1 point2 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like you agree that people in relationships are generally happier and healthier than those out of them, lmao

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa11 points12 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Not at all.

I believe half will end in divorce, meaning there is a high risk of being miserable. Of the marriages that remain, I would bet 25% of the people in them are miserable and 50% are probably close to indifferent. In all cases, married people lie like bastards about being happy to other people because society shames people for saying they're not happily married. Fucks with young men's minds when there really is no "happily ever after".

People never married don't know what they are missing OR they DO know what they are missing and are happy about it.

I know what relationships involve and I am HAPPY on an ongoing basis that this is a female-free household with just me and the kids.

Besides, a hot bedroom that will eventually go dead is not better than an empty bed, in my experience anyways. And the sex never stays good. Once she gets in her comfort zone, the bait comes off the hook.

[–]WastingOrchid4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I believe half will end in divorce, meaning there is a high risk of being miserable.

So being single = being miserable? The same thing I’ve been saying?

Studies show that married people are happier, healthier, and live longer. No amount of random stats pulled out of your ass will change that. Being in a relationship is a net positive for the vast majority of people.

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Not what I'm hearing. Most women are pissed at their man partner for 1000 or so reasons and most men are pissed off because she got fat, won't stop nagging or the bedroom went dead. What couples REPORT (lies) are not what is going on inside the home. So, the "proof" you offer is just bullshit testimony of people who lie to themselves as much as they're lying to everybody else.

[–]WastingOrchid2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t what they’re “reporting”, holy shit. Have you really not heard about this stuff? You can’t just fake life spans. That’s not “bullshit testimony”

[–]Auspexel2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Staying single and unmarried has a different effect than that of becoming single out of a divorce. No, he’s not agreeing with you as you’re trying to twist his intent into.

[–]WastingOrchid1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He’s not trying to agree with me, but he’s failing to actually argue against anything I’m saying. I replied to a guy who said people in relationships are miserable, I replied that they’re happier than those out of relationships, now this guy is saying that “oh, well, there’s a chance they won’t be in relationships again after and then they’re unhappy!”

Cool, so being in a relationship is still statistically the happiest, healthiest state to be in.

[–]red-tea-rex2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This stat may be skewed because those in marriages are statistically older, and older people are more established and thus past the uncertainties and strifes of the quarterlife crisis. Also women benefit substantially more in marriages so they make up the majority of the uptick. Look at the converse stat, like a third of women over 35 are on antidepressants. Bet those are the singles. Also in marriages the sex declines precipitously year over year so as far as any of the young men in this sub go, you don't have a chance at convincing them, unless their hypothetical wife doesn't mind a lot of mistresses coming and going. And living longer doesn't mean living better. It just means your slave warden errr wife makes you go in for regular check ups and won't let you engage in the fun risky behavior you used to.

[–]ivy1761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Those stats are more accurate for men, not so much women

[–]orbitaldecayed0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Half of them stop being married. And its usually (70%) women initiating that. They tend to get the house, a stipend and the kids, while the man gets to sleep in his car and put a gun in his mouth.

[–]WastingOrchid0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Wow, so not being in a relationship is bad, almost like that’s what I’ve been saying!! 😱

[–]orbitaldecayed0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

But getting into a relationship that is more likely than not to end this way is bad for men. Its a gamble. A bad gamble.

[–]WastingOrchid0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

That isn’t relevant to my point that being in a relationship is the healthiest, happiest state to be in (in opposition to the guy trying to argue that people in relationships are generally unhappy)

[–]orbitaldecayed0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

You made your point. Other people are making other points.

[–]WastingOrchid0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Okay? Then take it up with them and stop telling me about it

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I see you've never had an honest conversation with any married people and merely are projecting your own fantasy onto others.

[–]WastingOrchid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m using actual stats. The people “projecting fantasies” are the ones ignoring the actual science and making baseless assumptions to solidify their pre-existing biases

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Married men maybe. Married women not so much.

[–]neubsWizard0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The trick is to be an attractive man and date an uglier woman

[–]NewWayNow0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I totally agree with this. At least she needs to admire you in some way -- could be status, competence, or other positive attributes.

[–]neubsWizard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No she needs to be physically attracted to you and you need to be more attractive at such a level that she can't realistically think she could get someone better.

If you're not attractive enough and have other stuff like money she could still cheat on you.

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because having a life partner makes bad days better, good days better, and just overall gives you love and support when you need it the most?

Problem is a man is not going to get that from a Gen-Z/Millennial woman. He's just going to get an endless series of shit tests. And women of this generation are so hopelessly awash in validation and simping - which makes a lot of this the fault of thirsty men - that they can't help but constantly shit test the men they're with. Nor can this spoiled generation of women help but demand everything from a man while giving nothing. This generation of women cheat more than men their age. They're far too mercenary to sustain a loving relationship.

Men born in those generations are better off alone. The alternative is far worse.

[–]gigababejflPink Pill3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men born in those generations are better off alone. The alternative is far worse.

It's odd to see more of these threads showing men our age complaining about being alone with older men in the comments calling women useless and saying this is better.

I have seen no movement from men suggesting anything to improve relations

I only see men making the problem worse then blaming women.

Telling desperate lonely men that being alone is better just seems like a good way to set them up as easy marks. Because obviously, they aren't happy alone and they don't believe you. Now they are desperately buying companionship from streamers and shit.

I wonder what life was like when men took pride in leading and thinking bigger to make things work. This culture of race to the bottom and whining the whole way down is just weird.

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/29/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have seen no movement from men suggesting anything to improve relations.

First off,

There’s PLENTY of advice to self improve, and I’m talking about things other than TRP. Walk down any self help aisle and take a look at the books. Take a look at google search trends, take a look at the most asked questions on Reddit, etc.

Secondly,

What women desire in men and select for is counter to any actions in “improving relationships.” women don’t desire men to do anything unless it’s genuine. That’s why women don’t like telling me what they want because a “natural man” should “just know” how it’s done.

Thirdly,

We tried. We asked women what they wanted for years but what women want in an LTR, and what emotionally and sexually arouses women are two different questions we never knew we had to differentiate. This resulted in men acting like beta simps because they’re actually doing the things that women communicated they wanted. What women really meant was they wanted a man that ALREADY seduced them to behave like beta simps. Kinda hard to rewrite all that conditioning 10+years later...

Fourth,

Menslib is trying, but it’s not truly representative of men on the whole because it doesn’t allow content or speech that goes AGAINST feminism. Feminism is ill equipped to give men all they need. We can’t improve relations, if it’s only allowed so long as women don’t stand to lose anything...we’re essentially told you can limit men, but not women.

I only see men making the problem worse then blaming women.

Agreed. Reality has defied expectation and now people are pissed. Men get mad, then women get mad, then men get more mad, then on and on the feedback loop goes until you find yourself arguing with strangers on a debate sub...

I wonder life was like when men took pride in leading and thinking bigger to make things work.

Boys were let down by their society. Men were quite capable at one time, but absent fathers, coddling mothers, helicopter parenting, and a false expectations about how the world works, or that their children’s lives would be similar if not better than their own made parents not adequately prepare boys or girls for the future.

Kinda hard to lead anyone when you’re constantly shamed about your privilege and power, and systems are organized to “correct the mistake”

Kinda hard to lead anyone when you’re told things should be egalitarian and everyone should be equal in as many ways as possible.

Kinda hard to lead when you’re told that everything you’re doing is patriarchal, but only when it’s convenient to your accusers to say so.

Kinda hard to lead when everywhere you look, you see “the future is female”

Kinda hard to lead when you’re expected to be competent in a myriad of disciplines, but asking for help to better understand them is looked down upon by society because you should “just know” these things already or your (absent) father should have taught you.

Kinda hard to lead when your economy and stagnating wages makes it very difficult for all kids to cross that threshold into adulthood.

Also, nobody could have prepared for how game changing the internet made everything be.

Lastly,

it’s odd to see more of these threads showing...

Why do you think that is? If these threads keep popping up, maybe there’s some truth to it all, and you’ve been blind to it - willingly or unwillingly.

Men ARE trying. But we’re having to fix things on our own and there’s lots of resistance and no road map to go off of here.

[–]sparklingscott0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It really isnt that weird. Half the population just proved themselves to be total shit. The other half can only cope or bury their heads in the sand. There is no improving relations when holding women accountable for anything is forbidden.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Because having a life partner makes bad days better, good days better, and just overall gives you love

The problem with this is, millennial and Gen Z women are not life partner/marriage material. Most wont even be able to love even after they get off the cock carousel

[–]ivy1761 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Ok so date boomers then I guess.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ok so date boomers then I guess.

Nah, my advice to men is pursue short term NSA relationships or GYOW

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But there's a whole bunch of men who aren't interested in casual sex and want a relationship (off reddit and tinder lol)

[–]red-tea-rex0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Grandma can do some magic when she takes her teeth out

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are some pretty beautiful 60 year olds around imo. When I was a teenager, 60 seemed so "old". Now at 33, my mum is nearly 65 and she doesn't seem any different to me than when she was 50. I guess as you age, higher ages don't seem as "old" anymore. She's got chronic illness and is overweight and everything that should make a person seem "over the hill" but I dunno how to explain it. She likes fashion and she blowwaves her blonde hair every morning, does natural looking makeup, she just doesn't seem old to me

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because having a life partner makes bad days better, good days better, and just overall gives you love and support when you need it the most?

And you won't get that from a woman. You'll get it from a dog or cat, though. That's the harsh reality that more and more men are waking up to, that women do not give a single iota of a fuck about anyone but themselves.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, the first sign of your mistake is that you seem to consider women a homogenous mass with each of them interchangeable with one another.

You're simply doing terrible job at filtering out people you don't want to spend time with. That's your personal failure.

[–]Haywood_Jablomie420 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah yes, the behavior of roughly 3.5 billion women is my personal failure. Of course, how silly of me!

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're not describing behavior of 3.5 billion women. I'd be surprised if your anecdotal evidence even encompasses double digit amounts of women.

Your failure to comprehend that seeing one woman do something doesn't mean awalt seems to be a symptom of some underlying sexism. You should get that checked.

[–]pale5ei0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Time to put your nice shoes on and leave the man cave for a change.

To imagine this is how women are is an easy tell that your image of women is based on how they are portrayed on certain forums online, not how they are in real world.

Not to worry though, this kind of anger is rooted in ignorance is manageable and you can get rid of it as long as you focus on meeting people as they are while keeping an open mind. Best of luck to you!

[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Speaking as a father of three teenage daughters, I've been out of the man cave for longer than you've lived. I was an adult before the Internet happened. My real life experience trumps your sheltered Polyanna ignorance. You're like the squirrel who has never heard of a road or the cars that drive on it.

Darwin is routinely fed by men like you.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]red-tea-rex3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a good point. Lower economic opportunity for peak fertility generations is huge. Women on a population level tend not to commit to men who can't support children financially. Look at low socioeconomic demographics (high welfare areas). Compounded by public assistance programs that discourage marriage (because they'll cut off assistance when there's higher family income) and you're looking at way fewer stable households and way fewer babies. In fact, if you're poor, female, pregnant, and unmarried, you're soooo much more likely to abort your baby, statistically. Especially if you don't already have one. It's tragic.

[–]TheBookOfSeilRed blood, blue balls and purple heart16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Maybe? Its difficult to say, but I think that's sort of the plan. The US has been trying for the last century to figure out ways to control the growth of the population without outright killing people or forcefully sterilizing them, and unfortunately for some, this did happen. I learned that some states in the US had eugenics programs where people were sterilized against their will back in the 40's and 50's. Since then, the government has been using more covert methods to manipulate fertility and hormone levels. Misinformation through the use of media is also one of those methods. Never has there been a population more confused about sex and sexual relationships than we are today.

There are some men in their 40's and 50's who are still virgins, and it seems that the number of virgins overall has been increasing.

[–]893204209348 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any evidence to support this? I think the gen who gave birth to Boomers had the most kids, but I'm not sure about a grand conspiracy.

[–]DangZagnut10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's not, there's just been this stupid population/illuminati conspiracy nonsense for years.

There is absolutely no logical, economic, or any other reason to decrease the population. When I ask why the "elites" who don't exist, want to do this, it's always a blank stare.

[–]prophesizedpower12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Is it really that hard to imagine extremely powerful people wanting less people on earth? There’s way too much info to really get into it here but the families that do have all the power aren’t just billionaires that you see mentioned in the public consciousness (bezos, Buffett, etc). For the most part they keep their wealth hidden (who owns the fed? Nobody is allowed to know) and have been building wealth and consolidating power for hundreds of years (literally). They plan decades and further out for their offspring. There’s tons of damning information about this and great docs on it. If you want links I can send them.

Do you think that these families that have been extremely rich for hundreds of years and have tons of experience shaping society to their desires are too dumb to understand that advances in ai and robotics mean they don’t need the majority of the population anymore?

[–]DangZagnut2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As I said, but why?

Power wants power over things. If everyone is gone. Then what?

No more customers to buy things. No one to borrow money. No servants to order around no one to grow them food. No one to build their mansions. No private jets. No oil to turn into jet fuel. No one to build a Bentley. No one to take care of them medically nor invent life saving drugs.

This is always the same thing. Some Christian nonsense that ends up doing what it always does, some religious stupidity and blaming the juice for everything.

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is hard to imagine. Population growth is needed for economic prosperity. I'm not talking about exponential growth but ideal ~20% or so above replacement. In democracies, people's brains and earning power are our most valuable (read taxable) resource. It would be very stupid to have a conspiracy to reduce population growth as a strategy to consolidate power of your power is at all connected to GDP.

[–]prophesizedpower1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m well versed in Econ, trust me. The problem with your analysis is you’re not putting yourself in their shoes. You’re thinking about yourself and people like you. Yes, population growth leads to economic growth for the whole world, therefore more money for those powerful people. But they have so much money at this point that an extra $1B does nothing (relatively) to increase their power. And more importantly, they already have so much control over the monetary and economic systems worldwide that they can make that $1B quite easily. Because they’re strategizing not just for themselves but for their children and grand children and great grand children to be able to dominate society to a greater degree than they are already able to, they want to change the system to one that gives them absolute control over the world population. This would indirectly give them unlimited wealth.

They are pretty much done with wealth accumulation in this current system. That allowed them to gain control of the current system, but they know that this can’t last forever. No system ever has, and they don’t want it to. They are now onto the accumulation of absolute power stage. This requires they transform the current system into something that allows them a higher degree of control over everyone. 5g and smart cities will at some point be ubiquitous across developed countries. That’s a panopticon like surveillance system to live in that gives you a peek at what that type of “absolute control” I keep referencing would look like. All actions monitored and recorded. No privacy at all. Add to that forced vaccinations, lab grown meat, (probable) forced chipping, and chemically treated water and food and you see how they will influence mental states far beyond what we witness now with their relatively “basic” (if you can call it that anymore? Psychographics does not seem basic to me) propaganda programs.

But, and there’s a huge but in relation to your question, it’s not practical to implement this on a global scale with 8B people. Too many people risks an uprising they cannot control, that spreads and shatters what they’ve worked towards for centuries. So at some point a significant portion of the world population WILL have to be killed off, if their propaganda programs to decrease growth (ya know, what TRP talk about all the time with cultural death disallowing families + less marriage + economic conditions not allowing kids + climate change guilt, etc) in the western world don’t work well enough. Hmmm wonder what kind of event could help bring about mass deaths??

It really is 1984 + Brave New World

Call me a conspiracy theorist, doesn’t bother me. It will bother your great grand kids though.

[–]orbitaldecayed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If we don’t reduce earths population or at the very least slow the rate of growth drastically, there will be a rather nasty ecological collapse.

[–]TheBookOfSeilRed blood, blue balls and purple heart6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There's plenty of evidence to support it that's only a few internet searches away

Endocrine disruptors in food products, cosmetics and other household supplies:

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-endocrine-disruptors

https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm

https://www.ewg.org/research/dirty-dozen-list-endocrine-disruptors

Eugenics in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

The dating market has so much misinformation, I think citing any popular magazine like Cosmopolitan is enough of a source.

I'm looking for evidence of social conditioning through media but that looks like it's going to take more work to piece together, and when I said "media," I mean music, movies, TV shoes, etc. These can act as subconscious conditioning tools which are viewed or consumed by a large percentage of the population.

[–]893204209340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks

[–]BSGTG10998 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it'll be a dramatic shift for at least another generation or two, but without some sort of massive change, this is exactly where men of subsequent generations are headed. It's quite depressing really. We're headed in the same direction Japan has been moving towards.

[–]skystar861 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The men want it that way though so why should I be sad for them?

[–]BSGTG10994 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No they don't. I don't and nor do the majority of men I speak to. Men are adapting to a depressing reality, nothing more.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No they don't. Men are just told to "deal with it" and "no one owes you anything in dating" so they have to adapt.

[–]wtffellification0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it’s good that you’re wondering “why should i even be sympathetic” i guess, some people don’t even ask themselves that

[–]Dan240z0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Other countries are heading up like Japan also

[–]BSGTG10991 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup.

[–]ZlayerXZ11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We are going to end up free!

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I think the biggest issue facing these younger generations is technological advances. You already see these folks with their head buried in their phones everywhere you go. Family functions, work, home. Many of these folks are incapable of putting the phone down and actually speaking with others. And when they do, they're completely unaware of just how to do it. What's appropriate and what isn't. It's not entirely their fault, although I'd argue that as they get older, every opportunity is there for them to learn. You can only blame your youth for so long, assuming their parents allowed too much game/phone time as children. It's also not always simple to diagnose problems within ones self. I'm still learning to do that myself.

My wife's sister and her husband are perfect examples (younger). We invite them over for whatever function. They are the last to show and the first to leave. They are a chad/stacy couple, and we just don't have much in common with them. So they likely dread coming over and their behavior suggests exactly that. It's common for them to show up, we've been cooking food for the function, and we'd hear "no thanks. We got taco bell on the way". Meanwhile, i have extra food that i spent money on and worked to prepare for them.... You could have mentioned that sooner. Then, they only stick around for an hour or two, and 80% of that time is spent with your face in the phone. Everything about their presence at these functions was an insult in some way. After a while, we confront them about it and guess what? We were the "bad guys" for doing it. Eventually, we stopped inviting altogether. Now, all of these things are preventable with just a basic understanding of social norms. I'm going to be late.... Call. I'm going to eat my own food.... Tell us. I'm going to leave early... Again, just let us know. And put the fucking phone down and visit with your family! If you can't do this basic shit, then don't bother coming at all.

[–]OccasionallyFuckedLavender Pill11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That’s pretty sad. On the other hand, people that DO want to improve at socializing are often shutdown because it’s “weird” (or they’re ugly lmao). I’d appreciate your food though 😅

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh shit! If you are somebody that is unattractive or socially awkward, but decide to self improve, be prepared to be tested immediately and often. I'm a "work in progress", and I'm beginning to think that others actually want me to fail! Even your own damn family. They are so trained by you behaving a certain way that i think they intentionally (or subconsciously) roadblock your ass! They talk all this "good for you" shit when you tell them about what you are doing, but then you find them counting on your "old behavior".

My thing is social anxiety. I was very timid and accommodating to people. You already see where this is going. Others walk on you. You are a doormat. So i decided that I'm abandoning all this behavior. I'm going to speak up when things bother me. So, i gathered my balls. Can you believe the wife still had them in a mason jar on top of the fridge? My mother was the first, and most frequent "tester". They are happy you are making a positive change in your life, but they don't want to be included in it. They still want the doormat. So, anybody thinking of making self improvement changes, you can count on family to be the first people you will have to check. This was a surprise to me.

[–]Ledinax2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

HOW COME NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THIS?!?

My friends and family are constantly urging me to change and/or to improve, but when I start making steps towards doing that (perhaps good or bad, admittedly sometimes I'm not sure) they don't hesitate to mock me, criticize me or keep treating me like I'm a doormat. It's really fucking wild and makes me second guess myself a lot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would like to think perhaps they are testing somehow for your benefit. Measure your progress. But when it results in mocking or feuding, it really is difficult to believe that it's somehow coming from a positive place. Know what i mean? If you find yourself having difficulty in this area, that should only reinforce the fact that you are different and your changes are working. Just keep that in mind and keep going

[–]red-tea-rex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think when we try something new in regards to our habits it takes a lot of force to break free of the gravity of our old habits. This is a natural overcompensation that can appear to others as though we are going overboard, but often necessary to reset our perception of our own identity. When I was trying to be more social and less shy I went out to bars and clubs every Fri, Saturday and some other weekdays for social sports leagues. Those closest to you will erroneously expect small changes otherwise they will be shocked. It is better to ignore them, or ask them to participate in your change. There is really no in between. Ask anyone who is trying to lose weight. If they continue to hang out with their friends with poor eating habits they will be shamed and pressured and feel like they are missing out. It is far better to avoid those friends especially at first, or ask them to diet with you so you can be accountable to each other. In order to grow you must not fear outgrowing some people.

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I noticed this too. I started self improving and immediately my boomer grandpa started shitting on me. And my mom too. Oh I might damage my work life balance . Oh I'm not treating women respectfully enough (actually I am). Oh maybe you wont get that job. I get so fed up.

Honestly all their lives were pretty shit so I dunno why I'd take advice from them. The grandpa on my moms side, preboomer ww2 vet is based as fuck though. Redpilled too (but not a thirsty hoe like TRP men), he kept his wife in line.

Huge difference in quality of men between the "greatest generation" and the boomer and subsequent men tbh.

Whatever. We get one life. I'm aiming for the moon and fuck people who criticize me. I don't care when I die, even if I'm broke and homeless - I want to be able to say I lived life to the fullest and tried everything, worked at everything and never gave up.

[–]OddButton6Purple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I want more socialising among my peers 30-35, but it’s “weird” and seen as desperate.

[–]skystar869 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So what? Be weird. Normies are dumbasses

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, when you've been a doormat as long as i have, It's miserable to break in other people to it. You may lose some friends/family over it. It's as if they only accept you for that reason.

You have to abandon that fear of what others think FIRST. Fuck em if they want to roll their eyes about it. The important thing is that you get what you need. Which is practice. If they say anything negative towards you, tell them to eat a dick.

[–]ivy17610 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but TRP guys insist that having a 20 year old girlfriend even if you're a 40 year old man is the way to go... yet these guys are so involved in their porn fantasies that they don't stop to think they'd have minimal things in common and not appreciate the behaviour of most way younger people, and feel pretty silly hanging out with her young friends of both genders.

[–]Havest222 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

that is super rude... i wouldnt invite people over if they did that? its not a generational thing that's some kind of relationship issue you guys have.

[–]ivy1762 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's also a generational thing. Gen X had no smartphones or mobile internet growing up. Gen Z have had ipads and internet in their face since they were little kids. You were bullied if you used chatrooms in mid 2000s or met a partner online, whereas now it's considered normal to date online and have a screen in your face for social purposes for hours per day.

[–]Havest221 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I realize that. What does that have to do with anything.

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

....that you said it's not a generational thing and more a relationship issue. I'm saying it's also generational, directly replying to what you said.

[–]Havest221 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

yeah i get that too. but it also doesn't rebut what i said at all

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But you said it's not a generational thing and I said it basically is

[–]Havest220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

just, it's ok. dont worry about it

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly what i told the wife. Although the phone part is common for this age. We have hardly even spoke to them in a few years now. They seem to prefer it that way, i prefer it. The wife gets hung up on it because it's her sister.

[–]Havest221 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

sounds like something between your wife and her sister that they need to sort out.

[–]Dan240z3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the economy and standard of the living, and information technology. So yeah alot of guy's are going to miss out unless they donate sperm to a sperm bank or co-parenting with a female who what's kids like a single career woman that didn't get a husband at the earliest time or lesbian's

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[removed]

[–]Mrs_DrgreeMarried to Automod[M] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No inc*l content.

[–]bonobo-noBlue Pill Man4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not right now. The pandemic thing has put a pause on dating and sex for people of all ages, races, and sexes.

[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My cousins are more interested in school than girls honestly. I think Gen Z will be more ambitious but even less sexual than millennials.

Every Gen Z guy or girl I've met or know is far more interested in a goal, school, social media, money. Sex and Relationships appears to not be in the top 10 of concerns. I think they might be the Generation to really push for Artificial reproduction, surrogates and such.

[–]katsnackshackysacks11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Am I the only one who sees this as a non-issue? I really think that mature, established, and decent men should have no trouble finding relationships IF that’s what they really want... Women are also deciding to get married later in life, so that might mean men are getting married a bit later as well. A lot of people, especially in gen Z, are just beginning to plan their futures and who they might want to include in them.

I do think generally more and more people are less involved in relationships... but I think if you truest want something and put forward some basic effort, you’ll find someone... If less people want to be in relationships/get married/ get laid, live and let live.

[–]SaBahRub11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Of course not, we need exponential population growth to pollute and consume even more of our finite resources! Twenty kids for everyone, yay!

[–]chocolatefondant2111 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know right? And why is less babies a bad thing? It's not!

[–]SaBahRub10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

People are such narcissists sometimes. My genes are sooooooooo important and awesome, right everyone ?

[–]chocolatefondant218 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right and it's usually not.

[–]Ballface80204 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love this post.

Why the hell do people see population growth as a good thing? Population growth makes the world a worse place, period. We already have too many people on this planet. Quality of life is finally starting to rise in Japan due to their population decline.

I encourage everyone who wants to get married and to have kids to do so, but I'm not gonna pretend to be upset if the population stabilizes at 8 billion or so.

[–]penintheairvent5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

According to this entire thread (and sub, I think), “Millennial and Gen Z” women would be better off dating and marrying Xers and Boomers since those men at least see women as complex human beings.

Or, you know, making sweeping generalizations according to gender or by generation is essentially useless to everyone except the people being paid to publish endless sociological studies. And of course the journalists and snake oil salespeople writing articles and books about said studies in order to take our money and keep us miserable so they can keep taking said money.

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its a part of studying and science. But I agree I am against clickbaiting but I am for the data that is made available. To me this information just shows us that our generation grew up differently from the past. I imagine tge many transitions we faced had a lot to do with it (in terms of socialization). We now have more access to more people wed never see but in passing as we spent time with someone in our world circles. I can date a woman 50 miles away from me and not bat an eye while in tge days prior it was completely different. It would be harder to find them. Many women Ive had romance with and sexual relations came from social media and 2 from employment. I feel the newer generation after my own have a more settled view of the world, they grew up with the social norms that I did not (from youth which makes socialization very different). I mean my gen is poorer, seemingly less educated, in more debt and generally lesa happy with their lives. They dont seem to have many experiences. But that I mean of the less romantic and sexually successful.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, most definitely. With the way the world is moving, companies and individuals are already preparing on capitalising off of the loneliest generation yet. Porn, OnlyFans, sex dolls.

[–]chocolatefondant2111 points12 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Yes, because women don't need to marry men to have economic support anymore. Therefore there's no incentive to marry men near the bottom of the totem pole. And relaxed norms about sex, casual relationships, and divorces mean couples are less likely to stay together. Plus people are becoming too selfish to be willing to make the sacrifices needed to maintain a lifelong monogamous partnership. I predict in the next 10-20 years we will see a big shift in terms of decline in traditional monogamous marriage and family structure.

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Monogamous partnership and marriage is still very popular in higher income / higher education socio-economic brackets. The big decline is in people who are poor and working class (also where men are most likely to be unemployed).

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, idk about that. I see men talk about not wanting to lose their money in a divorce so men who have more to lose might be less inclined to get married. And men will marry down rather than marry someone on their level so a lot of career women are going to stay single.

[–]sparklingscott0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Meh, i make decent and i think you have to be absolutely insane to get married as a man. The real problem is women trying to force an insititution that only pathetic men agree to.

[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are in the top 20% of HH income, you are only 2% less likely to be married now compared to 1980. There is no real decline in marriage observed in wealthy men, tho 20% stay single now and in the past as well, so maybe you fall into that minority group.

www.brookings.edu/research/middle-class-marriage-is-declining-and-likely-deepening-inequality/amp/

[–]ivy1766 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Marrying a man these days means higher risk of having a financial dependent for women. So many gen Y men still want to follow their pipedreams or feel they overextended themselves with regular work in their 20s that they now have unstable employment ir none at all. All my partner's younger brothers are unemployed and just live off the dole, my ex lived off me, women in my family supported exes. Yet people still carry on about women all being gold diggers and ripping men off in divorce. A whole heap of men in their late 20s to early 40s have no money.

[–]MentleGentlemen098Purple Pillar Man2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

higher risk of having a financial dependent for women.

Men have experienced this like forever, yet they don't seem to mind much lmao

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well women were stuck at home with kids because we had no reliable birth control and in many countries, women weren't allowed to work, if we're going to talk about the past

[–]MentleGentlemen098Purple Pillar Man1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Nowadays, men don't seem to mind that women earn less than them and are just kinda financially leeching off them to the extent of women

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of them mind and plenty of men are looking for resources from women like a warm place to crash or their bills to be paid while following their pipedreams.

The gen Y musicians, artists, wannabe entrepreneurs know they need someone to support them because they don't have the stamina to work and study or work and grow their business or side hustle. They're still stuck in 2000 saying rock is dead and their parents say their ass is too old to keep staying in their basement, so they consciously or subconsciously hunt for a woman who can "support their dreams" and "be their cheerleader" and "be so different to the rest" aka let me stay for free while I act like pursuing my hobbies is a business in the making.

They might even get some crappy low paying or part time job if they're really top notch dudes and really killin it. Or they pay her a bit of rent with their dole payment, which is practically like a wage and not a handout, because he's had tough times in his life, like his parents got divorced when he was a kid, so the government is there to help guys like him who are in very genuine need due to such difficult circumstances. Besides, she'd have the house even if he wasn't there, he's only helping her out even more by contributing anything, it's not like it can impact her negatively. Moving forward together isn't like a necessary thing. Staying in the same place and not making her wealthier by joining together as a team is normal. I mean she'd be a gold digger if she expects that they'd be financially better off by coupling.

Depression is rough too. Not too rough enough to stop him hanging out with some highschool buddies or to do his hobby, but I mean that's networking and business, just cause something's fun or not making money (YET) does not mean he's a lazy bum doing whatever he wants!!!!

Don't forget that gen Y were one of the first to get on the "It's not my fault, it's my mental illness" train. And the "My dreams are important, I matter, fuck boomers that tell me how to live!" train.

[–]MentleGentlemen098Purple Pillar Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is more common with women than with men tbh. And those women don't even have that passion to succeed. They have normal job and just wants to leech of their husband's money, unconsciously or not

[–]ivy1760 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok so the stereotype is actually a WOMAN sitting in her parents basement at 35 and watching porn and lamenting online about lost pipedreams? I dont, think sooooo.

If you think women are instead leeching off men, which men? Where are all these wealthy gen Y men if they're too busy crying crying about their g g generation

[–]MentleGentlemen098Purple Pillar Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugh. Don't project yourself onto me.

What I'm saying is that women expected men to be the provider all the time but now things shift a bit and women could get a job now (if not more than men) you complain about paying a little bit more in a relationship and expect men to be the provider all the time.

[–]ivy1761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most women I know do the 50/50 split when dating and even after they're married.

I've supported my ex for 5 years so I can't really relate to complaining about paying "a bit more" whatever that means, but it's good to be in a relationship now where we both benefit. It's necessary for me that a man has decent financial status - and by that I mean he has some assets, savings and doesn't need additional help.. I'm not talking about being wealthy, this is achievable on average incomes as my fiance and I are both very average, actually below the median Australian income. I have all of those things so I expect the same from a man.

If some FDS women want men who are wealthier than I expect, they are allowed to do that, just like men are allowed to only date women who aren't overweight or who have stable income or are a certain age range or whatever people's preferences are. Plus some FDS women are wealthy themselves, there are some higher profile people there as well.

I don't define what other women should accept, if they have different standards to me then it doesn't mean that's wrong. We're all at different levels and want different things, but the overall recommendations regarding money would be (in my personal words, not quoting handbook):

During courtship, he pays for the dates. It's a weeding out strategy. Also, we don't ask men out so it's simply polite to pay when you invite someone to something. I'd do that for another woman, friends or family.

He must be at least financially stable.

You must also be financially stable. Your career, your finances, your independence and life as a woman are non negotiable.

We do NOT advocate sugarbaby lifestyle. It's dangerous for the woman for a start, plus it's bad for your own development. It's sad for the man but a lot of sugar daddies are shallow users too.

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

A whole heap of men in their late 20s to early 40s have no money.

And this is the real reason why so many men are angry and bitter and hate women.

[–]heretic1590 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's actually not it at all. It's a mix of many things. Older generations strongly due to stigma they grew up with and never progressed past. Younger generations due to frustration in dating and the disproportionate effort men have to put in for initiation and just unrealistic standards in general.

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So much of the manosphere is about being anti-feminist and how women have lost their femininity because they work now and don't need men anymore. If men had more money dating would be easier for them.

[–]Ballface80200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah I have no money because I refuse to work. Working is gay.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Protip: you don't need a life partner to reproduce. People do it all the time now.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah but many of these men are also not having sex and won't get it unless they're in a committed relationship.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would argue that many of those men are not properly aligning their priorities toward fitness. I mean if we're talking 70% of men overweight or obese, maybe it's not a Venn diagram but there has got to be a shit load of overlap between:

"Men who don't have the access to sex that they would like" on the one hand and

"Men who haven't properly prioritized fitness to such an extent that they are overweight or obese" on the other hand.

Wanna know what I think? A lot of those guys just don't get it. They may have some primal inkling that their fitness is important but they don't really get how important it is.

I guarantee that is the only way to solve the problem and motivate more men to be less fat.

They've tried all the straightforward "did you try eating less and exercising more" lol. The future will be trp minus the overt rage and disneyfied white nationalism

And yeah I know there's plenty of guys maxed out on fitness still dry dicking it and to them I say

1) It's a big world

2) Pay if you have to. What do you think most guys do anyway? What do you think marriage is 🤣

[–]Dan240z18 points19 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Most educated nation's tend to have less kid's on average. Even to the point where native populations tend to decrease in population size like Japan, Russia, South Korea, China, most of EU state's. And the US.

[–]smolboi69420-57im bored1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That’s more related to less kids produced by people

[–]oldbotoxface0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Russia’s birth rates have been going more or less up since 1999

[–]Dan240z1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

They lost half their population after the break up of the USSR and there death rate is very high currently plus they haven't recovered from the wars that they engaged in the past 100 years there's a reason why nation's like Russia and the other nations I have mentioned are developing robotics to quell labor shortages and military defense especially Russia since they still have vast territory to defend but little manpower to defend it it's cheaper to have a automated weapons system to defend their territory than a military personnel will.

[–]oldbotoxface1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

That’s true, but it does not change the fact, that the birth rates have gone slightly up and most millennials have a more family oriented mindset than young ppl in the west.

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's because Putin has a policy in place to raise Russian fertility. His plan is for Russians to have more babies, instead of the Western plan to import millions of immigrants, or the Japanese non-plan to just die off silently.

Make some big changes to the legal system, economic system, and give some cash bonuses to Americans and watch the birth rates grow. Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Czechia all have rising birth rates too.

Our culture and governments don't currently place value on fertility or family, hence low birth rates.

[–]oldbotoxface1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Right! But it’s not only economical. About 25% of the media I consume is Russian versus 35% u.s. media and I can really feel the propaganda differences between those two. It is normal that each culture has different ideals for man/woman/people, but sometimes they are literally opposite.

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Russian values" are way healthier than American values, tbh, I say this as a westerner. At the end of the day our culture promoting feminism is making us miserable and our economy will collapse at some point.

I'm not a prude but things aren't going well here, in my opinion.

[–]oldbotoxface3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was shocked when I first visited the u.s. about how women can behave that way and I felt pity for a lot of good men I met there because they have been used and abused by women and became disillusioned with them. It’s really a shame because men and women have to find a way to function together for the sake of future generations and therefore humanity as a whole. In Russia we embrace the differences between men and women for the most part and I think it can be a beautiful thing, if we learn to life in symbiosis

[–]mooph_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not true, Putin is importing a ton immigrants from middle East and politician who criticize this decision get litteraly killed (Nemtsov).

[–]Dan240z1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very true it's reason why I admire eastern culture a lot more than western culture especially when it comes to family structure, sports, education and overall seeing the big picture when it comes to the economy instead of short-sightedness that we see in the Western economic model's especially the decadence.

[–]mooph_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only reason for that is an influx of Muslims from ex-soviet *-stans.

It's pretty easy for then to get a citizenship and they breed like crazy.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (47 children) | Copy Link

A lot of the current sexless men will start getting interest in a few years after the cock carousel riders hit age 30+. These are the men who families will be started with.

Orr, the women will just get knocked up by a Chad and have government bux pay for it

[–]reluctantly_red19 points20 points  (46 children) | Copy Link

These are the men who families will be started with.

Keep telling yourself that.

These guys don't get to have kids. Best case scenario they get to pay to raise some other more attractive guy's kids.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (45 children) | Copy Link

Hey man — I’m just going off of the hypergamy trends I see. That’s what women tend to do. Fuck the top 20% during their 20s for sport, then during their 30s, they settle for a beta in the bottom 80% that they rejected(or would have rejected ).

They do this not only because their looks have declined, but also because the top 20% of men can only commit to the top 20% of women (if they commit at all)

Many of them will choose to remain single, get knocked up by Chad and have Government bux pay for it though. So I do get your point.

[–]AdolfGandi8 points9 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Why not just convince the girls you're a beta provider and dump them once they put out?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Why not just convince the girls you're a beta provider and dump them once they put out?

Many men are catching on and doing this

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]sparklingscott1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Honesty is irrelevant when you dont give a shit about what youre fucking.

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So you don’t a shit about women, cool. Women shouldn’t give a shit about you either.

[–]sparklingscott2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm desperately trying to see where this isn't already the case.

[–]chocolatefondant210 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your attitude doesn't help and just makes it worse. Women don't start out hating men, they become that way after meeting too many assholes.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

This is all an internet fantasy.

[–]satanic_hamster💪/ /(. )Y( .)\ \💪Asswhole💪https://tinyurl.com/y2nmy8ks💪6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is all an internet fantasy.

I work in healthcare economics. I see the kinds of women he’s talking about every single day. They exist in droves.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This is all an internet fantasy.

Okie doke

Women will always try to engage in gaslighting/malicious blue pilling to serve their imperatives.

Can’t have the betas wising up.

[–]chocolatefondant21-2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think you're entitled to being treated like a genetically elite male when you are not one? That's not how it works. No one is gaslighting or manipulating you. It's your own ego who can't accept that you lost the genetic lottery. And no, that doesn't justify you lying or manipulating women to get what you want.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

..so you agree it’s not an “internet fantasy”

[–]Hal_Inceldenza2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think you're entitled to being treated like a genetically elite male when you are not one?

No-one here is delusional enough to think they could get treated like some genetically elite male in their life time not even the most bluepilled individuals here. Most of us just want to have the genetically middle class treatment Gen Xers had and reject the dichotomy of genetic elite (20%) and rock bottom subhuman (80%). The disappearing middle class shouldn't only get treated seriously as an economic phenomenon.

[–]malevirgin1002 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You expect us to just submit and let Chad fuck all the women? That's not how evolution works. There will be an incel revolution unless sexual market inequalities are solved.

[–]chocolatefondant211 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s not much you can do about it, unless you’re into raping.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m afraid that’s exactly how evolution works in animal kingdom.

[–]malevirgin1000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

rape and murder are also factors in evolution

[–]drsherbert2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it does justify it. He should be able to sell whatever lie he wants to bed the women he chooses. You just don’t like it because it’s deceptive, but so is the media you consume that shaped your ideology. Shit testing can only take you so far. Especially, when vetting a psychologically grounded man. A lot of women underestimate men’s intellect and think we’re not able to see past their emotional manipulation. Two can very easily play at that game.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

1 out of 41 children born in Copenhagen is the child of a single mom and a sperm donor. More and more women are having children with Chads.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One out of forty one is ....significant?

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are we using the term sperm donor literally here?

[–]skystar866 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What BS is this. You have to meet people in real life

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What BS is this. You have to meet people in real life

Sweaty, the cat is out of the bag. Open hypergamy is now a thing where many women admit this.

Moreover, those type of gaslighting attempts won’t work on red pilled aware men.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s not gaslighting attempts.

Not everyone lives for/gets validation through superficial things. I’m not sure who you hang around but my friends/family are in relationships because they actually love each other.

But I guess the women you like are superficial, which is fine. Don’t complain about women only liking men for money/status if those are the kinds of women you’re going after.

What’s sweaty?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not gaslighting attempts.

Okie doke

[–]KV-n2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the number will be larger than gen X but it wont be catastrophic

[–]Bntt892 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They don't have to, marriage literally has a 50% chance of failing so what's the point? Why should I let society decide what happiness is for me when they dont even know what happiness is for themselves? You expect me to believe getting married to someone only to resent them 4 years later is happiness? Having kids is happiness? When dads abandon them, and women abort them? When I know parents who regret having their kids but donr even have to balls to say it? Fuck that shit I might as well go about my life doing what I think is best for me failing and trying something else but on my terms, it's pointless letting someone else decide and regretting it 4 years later.

[–]Iron-Giant1692 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I give it a 20% chance

[–]johnxwalkerNo Pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know to be honest.

[–]shabzzmary2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Millennial men here!! I don't agree with one of your arguments... Remember, this is only my opinions

I don't believe in that 'invisible men' thing because it's hard to find a virgin in my generation especially in my friend circle I'm not a virgin either...So there is no point in believe that theory (I'm not trying to bash the million y/o evolutionary biology it's just my findings)

I do think that lot of men in my generation is going to be remain single for their entire life.. because majority of my guy friends said me that they don't want to be married in future, I also think same I don't see any point of getting married and also I believe that all the relationship laws are sexist.

But I need a kid in future, hopefully a son; without getting married. Friend of mine actually have some plans for that too😂😂

[–]skystar862 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'd never choose to have kids out of marriage because that's disrespectful to me by making me into a single mom statistic imo.

[–]shabzzmary2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sorry I don't quite understand what you are saying. What's wrong with single mom or father??

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]shabzzmary1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I respect your opinion.. but you should consider the reason why marriage/monogamy exist back in the day! We don't have that same life situations anymore.. And I agree with you that some people are low value but I don't think I'm one of them..😂😂 I don't hate woman either. I just don't want to get marry. Maybe it'll change! who knows? after all I'm human 😉

[–]Ballface80200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what country are you from?

[–]Sekina71 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you going to financially support the woman who risks her life, premium earning potential and aesthetic years for you and your child -unmarried? What if you suddenly decide you don't want to be a daddy any more? Will you expect her to work whilst also raising your kids? If you were serious you would hire a surrogate and take care of your child full time.

[–]shabzzmary0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you going to financially support the woman who risks her life, premium earning potential and aesthetic years for you and your child -unmarried?

are talking about marriage? Because no woman will help some random man to get a child unless they are married, it's pretty much unheard of. If you are talking about surrogates, then no! I will not pay them more than anything already agreed

What if you suddenly decide you don't want to be a daddy any more?

No that's not gonna happen! I know all of the responsibilities

If you were serious you would hire a surrogate and take care of your child full time.

What about adoption?? I think it's also an option

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah most likely. Firstly theres already a rise in childfree women, and many are "career" women who don't want to marry. People underestimate how many under 25 women are "childfree" and this hasn't really shown up on fertility stats yet.

Also the majority of gen z men are struggling to get laid. Sure, this might change, but women have many older men to choose from now, sugar daddies, etc. So young guys are bitter, when they reach an age they can start fucking they just do that instead of have a family.

[–]Plutonic_blue10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Who cares at this point honestly? Women won't ever care lol. and literally we can talk about it all day, nothing will change. Sexlessness and loneliness in men will rise while women will still be enjoying life doing whatever they want while also claiming they're the "Better, tougher sex" lmao.

Just the way the world is my man. Oh well. At least for these sexless men, they'll have a lot more time to actually focus on themselves as people and work on who they are, not just being another NPC in the world like so many people are. So there is a silver lining.

Basically, womens standards and entitlement will keep rising, and many people will be lonely in the west. It is what it is lol honestly all we gotta do if people really wanna stop this is stop respecting women for having a vagina and start holding them accountable for more.

If the average man would stop fucking drooling over every cute girl with a nice body they see, and look at the bigger picture, this would all change. I mean when I see girls with pretty profile pictures post a comment on youtube, their is always a guy or two going "OMG you are so beautiful damn" or "Whats your number sexy?" Like dude this is clearly gonna inflate their ego to the damn heavens lmao.

Men need to learn that just because a woman is cute and has a nice body does not mean she automatically deserves respect and kindness. Once people in general take women off the pedestal and treat them equally as men, then yes, you will see the sexless rate go down drastically. But till then, as long as society keeps inflating womens ego, the standards will rise, the "Queen who is perfect and does no wrong" mentality will rise more, and the angry, lonely, sexless men suffering in loneliness and depression will rise more. The fix is easy, really easy, but when tf are men gonna put a stop to it lmao. Men are unfortunately just as much to blame in this situation as the women.

[–]kkillah4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

as a woman, i 100% support this and want to be seen as an equal. i do not like the power dynamic from my end with dating and i dont like the powerlessness that comes w it either. i just want to be a human being first that meets their partner or close friend but that’s not how any of it works... i wish there was a way to fix all of the engendered issues of our society so it could actually be equal

[–]Ballface80200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

dont like the powerlessness that comes w it either.

what do you mean by this?

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

At least for these sexless men, they'll have a lot more time to actually focus on themselves as people and work on who they are

In theory you would think this would be the case. In reality, a sexless male will usually be less productive and less happy than one who gets a moderate amount of sex.

[–]Plutonic_blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true actually. I’m defined as what you call sexless and I’m pretty happy. I’m also very productive in what I do. Will some be unhappy from it? Of course but there’s also way more to life than just sex and relationships. Being sexless and single for awhile now has allowed me to discover myself more. Been working on my music, fitness, MMA, and talents.

This whole notion of you need to be having sex and relationships to be happy is honestly pretty wrong

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You hit the nail on the head with this

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]BillyDauterivePurple Pill Man4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, it's very difficult for single men to adopt, unlike for single women.

Dang male privilege.

[–]121120199 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I hope so for their sake, there are much more opportunities for men when they remain single.

[–]gawa-undi2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Such as?

[–]theoracleofosiris5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Solvency, early retirement and a stress free quiet life

[–]gawa-undi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So some Stoic kind of benefits that come with it. Thanks

[–]121120196 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Such as almost anything that is not spending your hard earned income on raising children and subsidizing an aging wife.

[–]xXxINCELFAGGOTxXxIt is what it is6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why wouldnt you spend money on your own children? Wife is a different thing. It wouldbe better to have children without all that legal bs.

[–]12112019-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What do I need children for? I am not biologically programmed to father children, I am programmed to seek sex with attractive women.

[–]xXxINCELFAGGOTxXxIt is what it is0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think you're also programmed to provide some sort of safety for them. I might be wrong tho. Call evo psych specialists.

[–]121120192 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah if they exist I tend to agree, that is why you make sure that they won't exist and don't fuck raw.

[–]xXxINCELFAGGOTxXxIt is what it is0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I misunderstood what you meant in the first post then lol.

[–]Slyfer_Seven7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I hate that I get lumped in with the millennial sad sacks... but no, most of my similar aged friends (35-38) are married or at least have kids. I had a life partner a couple kids and all that. I lost her, but I'm working on the strength and conviction for round 2. So if I am able to do it (maybe even twice) than any millennial should be able to. Gen Z though... those dudes are fucked

[–]siberiansummer13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Definitely. We already observe it with Japan. When women have their own resources being married is no longer a necessity. So if they are gonna marry it might as well be someone of quality to them, not just someone. I don't see it as a bad thing either. The Earth is overpopulated and is being destroyed by humans

[–]Ballface80201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. We really don't need more people and it pisses me off when people say population decline is a problem, as opposed to a blessing.

Now if people who want to get married and have kids can't do so, I agree that is a problem. But the overwhelming majority of people who don't have kids don't have them because they don't want them.

[–]Jimmaey2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I might have a clear answer to that. Women in general have become more picky and don’t just comply to being asked out. If i hear those stories from my parents i always thought “ what the hell ,was it that easy “? . These days being able to flirt and be attractive , have a good job etc have been put more on the foreground when women choose, as they should . They are becoming more and more educated . Women don’t date down. And last but not least . There are a loooooot of men outthere that have no idea how to flirt... at all. So the basics on how to get a girl interested in you is lost by the majority of males. Mainly in my personal opinion, do to the lower testosterone and the “ just buy it” mentality. They have no idea how to conquer something.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Flaking and ghosting is so incredibly common now. I have a ton of guy friends who just gave up because several girls on campus thought it was funny to lead them on. Not to mention, #MeToo has blurred the lines for what constitutes as sexual harassment.

[–]Godfist040 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or u try and conquer it and u might get sexual harrasment lawsuit or a rape charge ruining ur career or jail time.

[–]Kahing3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men get the advantage as they get older. The marketplace shrinks for women over time, in part due to the fact that men die earlier. The problem, of course, is that a lot might resent having missed out on it in their prime and having a pick of partners more sexually experienced than them.

Then there's sexbots. I don't think it'll create the world that incels/MGTOWs are fantasizing about, where any woman over 20 suddenly loses value, but it will massively impact the dating lives of people in their 60s or 70s, where there are an increasing number of singles and people in that range are getting healthier on average. I expect a lot of men in that age range who will simply choose young-looking sexbots over dating when all they can get is women in their age range.

[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Considering this thread is mostly 'Why would men want these women / Why would women want these men' then I know one thing for sure - half of PPD won't.

I think most people will settle down.

[–]MentleGentlemen098Purple Pillar Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes because unmasculine men with no money (what is considered LVM) is the same narcissistic princess who has no money on top of that (what is considered LVF)

[–]SkookumTreeRomantic relationships aren't necessary for happiness!1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not a ton. Ten percent tops.

[–]Malarki1011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

37 here, had a 10 year relationship and a 3 year one. I'm enjoying my break, because relationships are exhausting. I've been single for 3 years and my life is just so incredibly carefree. That's not to say I don't miss being in a committed relationship, but, I thought I'd feel lonely being single. I don't. Some days the only time I talk is to my dog and cat, and we are all perfectly happy with this arrangement

[–]_innominate_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

'97? Music & movies seemed to start heading downhill then. Taking girl to the school prom, what about the perfect song... oh it doesn't exist.

Date? Like a movie? 😱 Why, we could stay home and string ourselves up on a lathe.

Perhaps part of the issue is that only rappers take on protege's and discover new talent.

Bon Jovi?

The audience is waiting.

The list continues.

Romance doesn't exist.

[–]Real_Anubis1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

One of the older Gen Z's here, I think the proportion of people who go unmarried will increase, and the proportion who will be involuntarily chaste will likely increase as well. I am hesitant to think it will reach a majority, though.

This specific change I think will mostly boil bown to a lack of social skills being acquired by a sizable proportion of my generation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, technology has stunted people’s social development

[–]Igereth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Bc not so long ago women's only socially acceptable goal was finding a husband and having children. Before that they were just married off no matter if she wanted or not.

Now women's goals have drastically changed bc why would they take some man as husband and hope he will be generous with they money if they can just as easily make their own money?

At least you know today a couple actually loves each other.

[–]youngmystick1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those 40+ with children baggage are the absolute worst because of their hypocrisy in refusing to date women who have children. I have met several and when I mention I don't have children, their eyes light up and they start talking about having a family. Hard pass.

[–]Sekina70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol same and I'm smart enough to keep it that way

[–]psychic_rosa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

that's life. some people lose, some don't.

[–]escapethesolarsystemActually Too Red for "EC" Snowflakes on r/TRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, in the west.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Gen X.

Was a virgin until 19.

I had friends virgins until their 20's.

All married etc.

Gen Z is WAY to young to be worried about yet.

[–]smolboi69420-57im bored1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My man why do you speak so many facts

[–]captainmo0172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Compared to Boomers millennials are smarter, and less likely to make money. So ya

[–]meeselbon5732 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

no. people be fucking whether you like it, or not.

you know, there are a lot of variations in social circles within a school, let alone planet earth.

[–]BillyDauterivePurple Pill Man2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Increased demand for mail-order brides from developing nations.

[–]KapteeniJOne Punch Man2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No. No matter how much people browsing certain kinds of defeatist content wish it was so. I guess even redpillers eventually grow up too, so I wouldn't expect even their relationship statistics ending abysmal

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. No matter how much people browsing certain kinds of defeatist content wish it was so. I guess even redpillers eventually grow up too, so I wouldn't expect even their relationship statistics ending abysmal

Nah, The mechanism you’re describing here is women choosing men that they rejected or would have rejected in their prime. They only choose these men because their looks have declined and they can’t attract the same quality of attractive men they did previously.

They’re forced to choose these men because the top 10% of guys they screwed around with in their 20s can only commit to the top 10% of women, so the other 90% of women have to settle for a guy they wouldn’t have otherwise married. Cue deadbedroom, cheating and divorce

[–]catemlBlue Pill Woman3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Men are told a lot on here that most men end up finding a partner and having kids, but do you think this will be true of millennial men and gen z men?

Mate, you guys are 24 at most. You'll probably 'settle down' like the vast majority of confused and panicked 24 year olds did in the past. Maybe you won't, and people who didn't in society were always a thing... but you probably will. Considering the huge number of people in previous generations who hadn't settled down at 24s, but then did - which includes the majority of my generation.
As an "older millennial" (end of 85, my husband is 84)... you'll be OK, probably. I know multiple nerdy virgins who turned 30 as 'still' virgins and are not happily with someone and from what I can see having the time of their life.

When I was a kid-ish and actually still, I always enjoyed the Nick Hornby novel and film adaptation "High Fidelity". There is a bit where he refers to his girlfriend aged 25, and he says (not perfect quote) "We were together because we were worried about being alone forever. Only a certain type of person worried about being alone forever at 25. We were both that kind of person".

You're a neurotic sort, fine. You obsessively compare yourself to boomer averages and panic that you'll never find companionship and family. At 24. Thats fine, thats just who you are. But seriously... chill the fuck out. Tinder is shit, but its probably not going to stop 50% of a generation 'mating'. Back in the prehistoric era us early millennials used to worry that our parents were a weird bygone era and we were fucked. We weren't. You're probably not either.

Basically - I feel for you and its sweet, but 24 is a dumb as fuck time to worry that you haven't got the white picket fence laid out.

Edit: Where I said "not happily with someone", it was actually a typo and I meant to put "now happily with someone", because those are the people that I was talking about. But... in fact also my typo version as well.

[–]Innovative_being2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

These young men don’t want to be second choice for the women who decide to “settle down” after riding 20+ cocks

[–]Anatheballerina-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk where you guys get this from. I’m 22 and I’ve been with 2 people. I’m not a red pill woman or anything. Just a normal girl

[–]smolboi69420-57im bored1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So many virgins in this thread just stop overthinking bro and look for girlfriends smh

[–]Ledinax2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes

[–]daniellederek0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dont forget the ~15% who are happy to have sex with each other.

[–]Luisd8580 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No because a 1981 millennial will vary differently from a 1996 millennial. Gen Z I’m still in the fence about them

[–]SonnySunshineGirl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it might halos have to do with how older generations were in a rush to get married, and often stayed together even if the marriage was unhappy. But now people realize they dint have to get married and it’s okay to leave if you’re not enjoying it.

[–]Flintblood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends, but I personally see a lot of beta buxing and women marrying up in career incomes. Most of these people I know are millennials 30-35ish or so. The women have jobs or careers but their husbands have the more stable bread winning career as accountants, actuaries, doctors or lawyers. In other words, the males knew early on that they had to major in something to make good stable money while the women pursued something like anthropology and feminist studies - pursued their passions. In several cases, the men end up working while the women are pursuing their graduate degrees. Most male graduate students don’t have that security or benefit.

I know two cases where the woman makes more and is perfectly fine with that and both are gen ex in their late 40s. One female is a full professor and the other is an attorney.

[–]topofthecentipede0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, it's exhausting for anyone to have the bandwith. Soul sucking jobs (the massive increase in work productivity) with stagnant wages, and debt in itself is almost all consuming. Really courting someone takes serious effort and we are all in survival mode to an extent rn. I think it started earlier and is just getting worse. I think you could solve almost every problem with reduced work loads and higher pay lol

[–]SaintERosa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean women dont date down in terms of looks and class (think position, image and things like that). Money and education is another factor but I find it funny seeing that over two 3rds of student loan debt is from women and many women do not use their degrees for their employement and likely never will. However, I wont say that its always that way.

I feel the expectation of men and todays laws and societal norms are making being an average man romantically difficult. Some are scared by romantic abuse and loss, others have nothing seemingly going for them and still others really have nothing going for them.

If women lowered standards sex would increase and babies too, however, that would also likely result in a lot of unhappiness as settling isnt necessarily a emotionally satisfying thing.

Id say in their 30s many will find themselves in some kind of romantic relationship and as they get older the likely hood may increase but only for the wrong reasons of older women having difficulty finding someone.

[–]tropicsGold0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My millennial son is already married and getting ready for kids. But I mostly home schooled him so he was protected from all of the BS indoctrination going on in our public schools.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]wtffellification0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what’s to try? trying is doing something half heartedly. many people “try” marriage too much, for instance.. the way i see it

[–]solaybrane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was born in the mid 90s. I think this is basically the case, but for me it's not due to inability, it's due to the fact that I can't stand being in a relationship, and every woman seems to want one. I do want to have sex, but it appears that you can't really get that without either being dishonest or being in a relationship. And being dishonest and stringing people along seems like it would require even more effort than... just being in a relationship.

The reason I don't want to be in a relationship is that most women seem to be a very difficult combination of boring, extremely complacent and normie, and annoying/crone-like. When I think about it, even the cute, wouldn't-hurt-a-fly ones can be way more unnerving than any of my male friends, when they go out of their character (which they do once you get to know them better), and I'm pretty sure this is due to innate psychological differences.

It's why the image of an unbearable woman constantly blabbering innocuous criticisms, driving the man insane, was so universally prevalent back when you could depict such things. Women are basically the exact opposite of how modern media depicts them: there aren't any female lone wolves, women with a mission, with an autistic focus on something interesting, etc. There may be some but they're an exception and so rare (and almost always unattractive physically). More often, women that are actually "on a mission", such as successful female scientists who I respect otherwise, tend to be extremely conscious of social status and have bootlicky personalities, which is unattractive to me. Props to those who aren't like this, but as I said each and every single one I know falls in the "shaving is oppressive" category.

So yeah I have a very cynical and misogynistic view, and I don't pretend otherwise. This isn't driven by personal frustration (save for being frustrated that this is the case), or any kind of right-wing sentiments, I just don't think I like women in any way other than sexually.

[–]ifelsedowhilelocal cop - cherry top-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One of the consequences will be a increase in the White population, since Chads are mostly white and rural and suburban women tend to have a higher fertility rate and rural and suburban community are mostly Caucasian. In other words, women's hypergamy is favoring White supremacy!

[–]Iamaconservatard14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

False. We have been trending towards a non-white majority in the US and that will continue. Lower income people of color have more kids. And "Chad's" of those races exist lmao

[–]xXxINCELFAGGOTxXxIt is what it is2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my eyes are bleeding...

[–]ThisIsMyAccount135Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Delusional post, not to mention you're ignoring immigration.

However, white people will increasingly be conservative and religious and the religious nutters keep having more and more babies while the seculars die off.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If they’re the low value guys , then yes; it’s for the better. These guys are porn addicts/video game addicts which means not an ounce of testosterone in them. Why should they pass on their inferior genetics? Let them die alone with their dogs & porno stash. They don’t deserve goodness & beauty.

Now if they’re high value, quality men then I hope not!! These are the men worthy of a good woman and a loving family 👍🏻

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[–]OXOzymandiasi am broke ass fuck, but i still need some poom poom5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see a lot, like a lot of lonely dudes....it is pretty frightening

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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