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Do you think it's a misconception that men want sex, women want relationships?

July 30, 2020
199 upvotes

I see it all the time on this sub (and also elsewhere) that women are only having sex because they want the man to commit to them. They might enjoy sex a bit, but they are primarily doing it because they want a relationship. Whereas men are men, they just want sex all the time.

I feel like this a misconception and actually plenty of women just want to fuck or have short term relationships that are largely physical, moving onto a different man when they get bored. Equally many men are sensitive people and don't want just sex. They enjoy the intimate company of women and a woman to talk to and be there for them, not just as a receptacle for their sausage.

What do you reckon? Do you think this is a misconception or do you actually think it's largely accurate?

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Post Information
Title Do you think it's a misconception that men want sex, women want relationships?
Author BumblingBeta
Upvotes 199
Comments 311
Date July 30, 2020 1:26 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-its-a-misconception-that-men-want-sex.719148
https://theredarchive.com/post/719148
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/i0m015/do_you_think_its_a_misconception_that_men_want/
Comments

[–]llechwr64 points65 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Critical thinking? On my christian subreddit? No its easier if everything is black and white and grey dosnt exist.

Real answer, alot of people on this sub think all women suck or all men suck, all men good or all women good. Both fail to realise that the vast majority of humanity sucks, you dont suck because your a woman or because your a man, you suck because your human.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Both fail to realise that the vast majority of humanity sucks, you dont suck because your a woman or because your a man, you suck because your human.

While that's of course true, how is it relevant to each gender when trying to get the best deal for themselves? If anything it's an inconvenience and thus best left ignored.

[–]xkitteakatx11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The fact that your looking for the best deal for yourself when referring to another human being as if they were a product to be shopped around for shows which segment of the population you are.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

which segment of the population you are.

Interesting perspective, considering that the wealthy are more likely to lie, cheat, and break the law

Which "segment of the population" do you aspire to? The middle class strict adherence to middle class slave morality?

Why?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A murderer who admits to their murdering doesn't therefore make them a good person just because they were honest about it. It makes them a better person, but there are many layers to morality.

[–]heythere360-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😂😂

[–]llechwr-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Extroverts outnumber introverts by about three to one. Thier also more likely to have sex than introverts. And in my personal experience thier way more likely to be assholes, specially if it helps them fit into a clique.

I dont think the teachings of red pill are wrong, I think they suck because they focus entirely on extrovert behavior. If you on the internet and specially if your on reddit chances are your an introvert. Both genders chase after these extroverts expecting a relationship and both end up angry, neither one wants to admit that thier preferences are garbage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. Now I wonder if it's extroversion that causes sex, or sex that causes extroversion

[–]rubbooyuri1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, but I’m lazyyyyyyyyyyyy!

[–]momentumguy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice truism, you really added a lot to the discussion.

[–]zuckerberg_galaxy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is this a Christian subreddit?

[–]llechwr1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, its just a meme about swearing on a christian minecraft server.

[–]thekhanisdedbois0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bravo

[–][deleted]  (92 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa60 points61 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Remember that classic nursery rhyme?

What are little girls made of? Sugar and spice and everything nice. That's what little girls are made of.

What are little boys made of? Snakes and snails and puppy dog tails. That's what little boys are made of.

All in good fun, I presume. But it's really a blue-pill truth. Young women are valued and young men are not. Older men with resources are valued. Old women are not.

"Men are born poor, and die rich. Women are born rich and die poor."

Ah, the shit Blue Pill people say...

[–][deleted]  (17 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]icellphones32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A little less so when there's no puppy dog attached to it

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I take it that you haven’t seen my adorable belt.

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Even after they're chopped off? :-(

[–]badgersonice9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Come on, how weird do you have to be to hear that silly rhyme about boys being messy and cute, and jump immediately to the worst possible interpretation: "oh yeah, puppy dog tail... I guess people must think boys are like bloody, dead, chopped-up dog parts. Everybody hates boys."?

Puppy dog tails are just the cheerful wagging adorableness. The rest is probably supposed to be about cute, messy mischief and curiosity, too, like how little boys will bring you a gross slug, but it's kinda cute when they do it. And whatever a snip is (?)... the poem is from like, the early 1800s, when there was really not a lot of "girl power" going on, anyways.

But, if you want to read weird stuff into it, then how come girls are supposed to be "sugar and spice", things that are edible? Are these people cannibals???

[–]ThetaOmega8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ring around the rosary is about the black plague.

London Bridge is about the death of the English Monarch.

Rock-a-bye Baby is about a baby that falls out of it's crib which is located in a tree.

And if you look at the original fairy tails that haven't been sanitized, are pretty damn dark.

[–]reluctantly_red4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

if you look at the original fairy tails that haven't been sanitized, are pretty damn dark

They should never have been sanitized. Its bad for kids to be so protected.

[–]ThetaOmega2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. You can keep things dark, and still make it age appropriate. The whole "Oh he's just sleeping" I would argue is far more harmful then telling them the truth.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And if you look at the original fairy tails that haven't been sanitized, are pretty damn dark.

Not actually true. The Brothers Grimm bloodied them up somewhat--and moreover, those are the German folktales. The French ones are quite different; the French version of Cinderella, which predates the Grimms, is nearly identical to the Disney version except her slippers are made of fur.

[–]badgersonice-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, but likewise, many nursery rhymes are just silly or cute. The Muffin Man is... probably about a guy who sold muffins in Britain.

And likewise, many (most? I'm not a folklorist to know the extent) of the dark interpretations are speculative or apocryphal, and it's not certain those interpretations are accurate. For example, connecting "Ring around the rosy" to the plague is a folk etymology that originated in the 1950s, rather than established theory, and there's quite a bit more evidence that the plague explanation is inaccurate than there is evidence supporting the idea.

So in the absence of any evidence, it is quite a big stretch to assume a very dark, and honestly quite odd, interpretation to "puppy dog tails", as though the poem is somehow an expression that people of the time hated boys or thought boys were undesirable somehow.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Muffin Man is... probably about a guy who sold muffins in Britain.

It bugs me to this day there's no muffin shop on Drury Lane.

[–]Helmet_Icicle0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

The real line is actually:

Snips & snails & puppy dogs tails

where snips or "snigs" are a Cumbrian dialect word for a small eel. So the grand motif being small, gross objects complete the association with male perspective.

[–]badgersonice-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

First, there are multiple versions of folk rhymes: none is really the definitive version. But yes, the version you quoted is the one I’d heard growing up.

Thanks for the definition of “snip”— i had kinda always wondered! But I disagree with your interpretation of it as gross. If it’s based on language in England, then considering how popular (and not gross) eel pie is in England, “snips” is probably about the same category as sugar and spice. And again, puppy dog tails are not gross at all.

And as for snails, little boys being more likely to, and encouraged to, plays outside and explore might be the origin of the association of boys with bugs and puppies. Being the gender that was allowed to play outside in the mud, get dirty, and learn about the world is decidedly not a bad thing.

[–]Helmet_Icicle0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Mind your elbows while reaching so obtusely, and don't forget to stretch afterwards.

[–]badgersonice-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What a ridiculous, and ironic, attempt at an dig.

Especially since you know perfectly well that no one thinks puppy tails are gross, and that no one in the 1800s thought masculinity or boyhood was in any way a negative. Talk about a stretch!

[–]willwa21038 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It’s actually a Red Pill truth. Take a man in his early 20’s and a woman in her early 20’s for example. The woman will have way more options than the guy cause she is at her peak sexual market value. The guy can still get laid a fair amount of times but nowhere near as many times as the girl. But as time progresses if the guy is focused on building himself physically, financially, intellectually, spiritually etc... by the time they both enter their 30’s the man will definitely have more options than the woman. High value men for the most part want women still at their peak. Of course there’s women out there who still look stunning and hot even in their 40’s but not as much as they were in their 20’s which was their peak. So that is actually a Red Pill truth in my opinion.

[–]reluctantly_red5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

by the time they both enter their 30’s the man will definitely have more options than the woman

TRP gets this wrong. By a cohort's third decade men are dropping out of the dating/romantic marketplace right and left. Incarceration, unemployment, mental illness, health issues, substance abuse ... all these hit men much harder. They're also tolerated less in men. Like women many men peak early and then start to decline (often in spectacular manner).

[–]Indian-Punjabi-Goth2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP does not get it wrong imo. I think the biggest factor is the biological clock at 35 with women that forces women to grow up quicker than men. Also the attractive factor is a quality associated with women than men. Those guys that do not waste their time around in their 20s trying to date women out of whatever reasons, maybe they are beta, end up working on their career and amassing wealth which suddenly increases their value.

[–]knowledgeseeker9992 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The man will only have more options if he in is the top 20% of most physically attractive men, if he isn't in the top 20% of looks but has his life sorted out(good job,car, house etc) then a women that couldn't get chad to commit might settle for him. Online dating and social media has changed everything.

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Holy shit that is a fucked up nursery rhyme. I remember it in the Powerpuff Girls intro. And yet feminist womenstill think they are the ones that are disposable.

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, that's why women outnumber men 100:1 in workplace fatalities and homelessness. Oops, wait...

[–]Sir_manalot9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It is because men are (and have been) significantly oppressed sexually for nefarious reasons.

[–]rhyth7-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oppressive porn use

[–][deleted]  (36 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Reason-and-rhymebi male, anti-bullshit1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Many males don’t even refer to women as women, they are usually called whores or bitches or other derogatory words.

.

Many males

lmfao what the fuck? textbook example of weasel words - no one reading this has any clue who these "many males" you're referring to are, and while i've met some misogynistic fuckers I've never seen this behaviour you're describing.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Reason-and-rhymebi male, anti-bullshit1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay... why would I care what extreme nonsense they say online? TRP readers might make up .1% of the population, and of course the vast majority are lurkers. Those who do post are, like everyone else on ideological forums online, playing characters of themselves. Just like the left wing "revolutionaries" who don't lift and are super meek IRL, I pay no mind to people pretending to be some movie star and spouting pure ideology. I care about what real people say and do. That's what this sub is about - the real world sexual market, where "males [who] don't even refer to women as women" are a statistically irrelevant anomaly.

Edit: Also, did it occur to you that the RP posters who speak like that aren't addressing women? Like, they are not remotely posting content for women to read. They're addressing men, trying to convince ordinary men to think like that. Because what they're saying, "women are all whores and you don't need to respect them", it goes against men's instincts and socialization. So yeah. To think that RP authors are representative in any way of men at large is beyond insane.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

This attitude is seen around her because that’s what many of the males here claim. I’ve seen it said many times by males that “women are only good for sex” and if it wasn’t for male thirst they would have nothing to do with women.

You're ignoring all the other important factors as to why many men say that , such as possible false rape accusations (resulting in jail time,destroyed reputation,being beat up by white knights cause of her lies ), alimony and child support (forced to pay money to a woman who hates you, takes your kids from you , and demonizes you to your children) ..

There are many many valid reasons to not associate with women, which are almost non existent when compared to associating with men.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MarTweFah1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup... and to mask what they say they add words like most/some/a lot of.

[–]ThetaOmega1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What a fuckin leap from what he said.

"Yea, women are not worth going to prison or being forced to pay for kids for 18 years"

"WHY DO YOU THINK WOMEN SHOULD BE CALLED CUM BUCKET WHORES!"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The original comment I replied to got deleted

[–]ThetaOmega1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, it didn't. It's still right fucking there.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThetaOmega-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are rarely raped by strange men (it's mostly done by someone who they trust).

So they should not be weary around strange men they come across?

Getting hit by lightning is so rare, so it's foolish to seek shelter if a storm is nearby!

As for child support, there are men that are forced to pay for children that are not his, all the fucking time. Most of the time it is because of paternity fraud, but there are more and more cases of "he acted in the roll of the father, so he must pay".

As for child custody, you have a source that when men fight, they normally win? No protection if she falsely accuses him of abuse. Bam, child custody goes to her.

And she loses nothing by fighting him in court. He is going to have to pay for the attorneys, both his and hers.

[–]CentralAdmin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing about custody is that it places the onus on men to fight but very rarely on women.

If we took the kids from women and told them to risk heavy financial and emotional losses to have a chance at getting them back, it would be seen as unfair.

"See? She doesn't really want her kids because she's not fighting for them!"

Well, if she had lost the house she was paying for, recently discovered her husband's infidelity, got accused of being abusive towards him and the kids, had her name dragged through the mud, had been living in motels because she got kicked out of her home, was up to her eyeballs in debt and the advice from her attorney was to just get it over with and let her have the kids...you'd wonder how much fight she'd be expected to have.

But when it's a man he needs to be nothing but an infallible pillar of strength. His needs be damned, he's a worthless POS for not fighting harder for his kids.

[–]John_Magnus4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'm curious, how common do you think false rape allegations are?

[–]haagendaasI’ve taken so many pills I’m hallucinating6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Depends on who you are around. I’ve never had trouble with girls, until I hung out with a group of ones I knew were troubled and all five made an accusation of sexual harassment on me. It’s not always something that goes to a court of law, but it can still ruin your reputation.

[–]NotARapistt0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

damn, how did you even get acquainted with them in the first place?

[–]haagendaasI’ve taken so many pills I’m hallucinating1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

One of them who I was into at the time sort of led me to them and they were pretty much the only people I talked to during quarantine. They all had some form of depression and some other issue, but they were sometimes fun to be around.

[–]NotARapistt0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

did all five accuse you of raping them together, or separately?

[–]haagendaasI’ve taken so many pills I’m hallucinating1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sexual harassment* and all together. Separately would be waaaay to crazy for me to process.

[–]the_calibre_cat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think they're probably less common than rape, but more common than reported. A dude's life is less important than a woman's accusation by and large.

[–]ThetaOmega3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's getting more and more common. I couldn't put a number on it currently, since I would have to have a lot of data to come up with a close number.

And we have to figure out criteria for it. Are we only counting cases where she goes to the police? Are we counting cases where she only puts him on blast on social media and never goes to the police?

But let's say false accusation are only a quarter of unreported rapes. It's still life destroying for a man, all for what? What did he get out of it before he was falsely accused?

It's stupid rare for people to get hit by lightning. That does not mean people shouldn't head to shelter if a storm is rolling in.

[–]evleva1181-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Proof false allegations are "getting more common" please?

[–]ThetaOmega2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The Duke Lacross team. Matress girl. Johnny Depp. Vic Mignogna

[–]425199842519980 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you have no actual data or statistics.

[–]what_about_the_birds1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are many many valid reasons to not associate with women, which are almost non existent when compared to associating with men.

Haha like actual rape, murder etc. Men are way more dangerous

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This attitude is seen around her because that’s what many of the males here claim.

This attitude is not limited to "around here" YOU were probably raised with some variation of this warning planted in your upbringing

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well congrats

You live in a society that views and blames all of us as of we believe that way, it's awesome

[–]beyond_relevant0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

And women only really do offer sex and children for men.

And thats so tragic. They could offer more, BUT WONT.

Imagine crying your soul out infront of her and instead of her panically contacting her ex to save her from your "genetic filth", instead she procedes to console you and give you a bj...

This was an exageration but you get the point. Since girls like being #different how about you offer emotional validation to a guy without losing your attraction for him. But after he opens up to you with all the negatives of his life, you proceed to console him and give him a bj.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]kakul9110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel it's more about both the genders chasing the sexually attractive ones.

The sexually attractive ones know they can get away with all the wrongs and they leave a trail of frustrated average people throwing shit on the other gender.

The sooner people stop chasing the superficial, the more successful they will be with the opposite sex, I guess?

[–]CentralAdmin-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve seen it said many times by males that “women are only good for sex” and if it wasn’t for male thirst they would have nothing to do with women.

They say this not because this is what women are actually worth but rather that women do themselves a disservice by not gaining any depth to their characters. They coast by on female privilege. This doesn't mean have zero worth outside of sex, but, for example, look how many women go online, ass and tits out, saying they're looking for a LTR.

They also hardly mention what they offer in return besides trying to attract a guy in the most shallow manner. So it's not impossible for a guy, during post nut clarity, to realise she's not that interesting. In other words, women tend to believe that having a vagina means they don't need to work on other aspects of themselves as it's usually been enough to get a guy to approach. But that doesn't mean the good ones are interested.

Are there interesting women out there? Yes! But they're either usually taken or they don't need to hunt around in the SMP for men because they attract men who are interesting too. It's just far too easy for women to rely on looks and sex without having to develop other interests.

[–]prunusamygdalis6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s BC a lot of men are vulgar and predatory, lol. When women have many experiences with vulgar, predatory men, how else are they supposed to see men? Wanna know what you call a woman who doesn’t see strange men as “possibly a predator until proven otherwise?”

Victims.

Women spend a lot of time and energy designing their lives and social interactions to protect them from men. Making sure you’re always around trusted friends who would never leave you behind if you were incapacitated. Making sure that if you’re going to have a male roommate you don’t know well, you have at least 1-2 trusted (usually female) roommates. Buddy system for walking anywhere especially at night, going to the bathroom at large events.

We put failsafes in place to make sure we are never vulnerable to predatory men, because there truly are a great many of them and they’re everywhere. They are not the majority but I would say in college for example, every “major” party of 75-100+ people has at least a solid handful. Imagine if everytime you went out to socialize there were hidden monsters who wanted to violate and destroy you in the most horrific way possible to satisfy their own disgusting, degenerate lusts.

It ain’t shaming male sexuality when it’s true. Even the non rapey males admit they only want sex from women lol, they just want it to be willing. Therefore many will manipulate and straight up lie to gain a woman’s confidence, future-fake, just straight up pretend to have feelings they 100% do not to have sex with her.

Women will never just trust men. If I don’t know a man and he has no context I trust him as far as I can throw him: not at all.

[–]Tardisand-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

there's a feedback loop here. women label what they dislike. the difference between vulgar, predatory VS sexy is that you disapprove of the person doing the former. they could exhibit the same behavior.

females form a clan from an early age, design and follow superstitious behavior that shuts out socially awkward men. the men that succeed learn to be as manipulative as women, or just not care. the guys that are shut out grow up to be resentful and play the role given to them.

if what you say is naturally true about men, then every culture, village, tribe all over the world throughout time should have a 5% predatory male population. yeah? where's your proof on that?

give some examples of predatory and vulgar.

[–]rubbooyuri7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

“Male sexuality is for some reason always seen as vulgar and predatory”

You seen porn/the news/male conversation/video games/movies lately?

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]rubbooyuri2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Fantasies + reality tend to paint a pretty good picture, yes

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]prunusamygdalis0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men produce endless content about how they feel about women lmao. Endless. On this platform and every platform. Nobody believes the lies some of you try to spew, enough of you plainly tell the truth.

[–]MarTweFah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So..... mainstream media?

That is still overwhelming run by men?

[–]Kaisha0015 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That's because women don't actually want commitment, or sex. They want power. They are not playing the same game the men are playing, they're two steps ahead. They know that when power comes first they can get commitment and sex, on their terms, on a whim.

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The bulk of PPD users tend to ignore the mentally healthy segment of the population.

[–]John_Magnus0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What is the mentally healthy segment of the population?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The people who don't play power games, who don't attach egoic identities to themselves and others, who mould their behaviour around compassion, empathy, and honesty before material gain.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fictional

[–]xkitteakatx4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not. I'm a loyal woman who has been with one man for ten years. We met at a gamestop and have been together ever since. He had and still has student loan debt, bad credit, comes from a poor family, and lives at home. Not every woman cares about a man having a lot of money. The women and men that you attract when you make it known that you have money are the people who will use you as a tool for their own desires. Most kind hearted people would befriend and date you without knowing that you have money.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't doubt its becoming an increasingly smaller segment of the population.

[–]Makhmalak1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Double standards

[–]zoonose990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This, tautologically.

[–]TheDumbassGenius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

they get shamed as being 'nice guys' that still 'only want sex'.

Or they just get called gay

[–]RottingAway9034 points35 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who’s spent any time on FA forums can see how much single men crave relationships and how the sex is only a small part of it. Men have emotional needs, they aren’t just walking penises. Likewise, unless they’re genuinely asexual, women want and enjoy sex. The fact they’re more discerning than men is merely because there’s so much risk attached to sex for women (both biological and social).

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But I have never seen them in real life. In forums you can claim all the shit you want, but that doesn’t translate to real life. I know alot of guys who whine about not having a girlfriend ADMITTING to actually being unable to commit when confronted. I have seen this with my own eyes so please.

[–]RottingAway900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve seen plenty irl. And having commitment issues still isn’t the absence of emotional/romantic needs.

[–]heythere3600 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This.

[–]yelo77726 points27 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Relationship = security. Sex = adventure. Both sexes are interested in both, but women need to have children earlier in life then men (biology). Women have their "adventure time" in their 20's, men in their 30's once they gained some status, hence the mismatch in timing between the sexes.

[–]emeral13222 points23 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I’ve seen a lot of articles in the news about how women are less likely to want children nowadays and the birth rate is dramatically declining so it will be interesting to see what impact this has, since many women’s drive to settle down is because they want to have children.

[–]lemme_tell_youNo Pill8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Japan is a case study in this phenomenon.

[–]bionix9015 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's happening all over in the developed countries but it's more visible in Japan because they are kind of against immigration. In the other developed countries you have tons of immigrants who are having children to replenish the numbers. That's how my parents and I came to Canada from Eastern Europe.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hopefully a sustainable, modern society. There'll be some economic difficulties but we'll be fine

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, though there is a large number of women who want to get married and settle down, but are never planning to have kids.

[–]Kaisha001-1 points0 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

Its just feminism, and will pass in a generation or two. Once women realize the grass isn't greener, that family > career, and that they sacrificed their best years simply so that some overpaid CEO gets another Ferrari, they will warn the subsequent generation between gulps of cheap wine while petting their cats.

[–]Kandace2112 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Japan is the case study of this phenomenon and it never had a large feminist movement, it is still a largely homogenous conservative patriarchal society and where women are expected to give up their jobs and become housewives the moment they get married. Guess what? Still no babies. It’s largely technology that is driving this phenomenon and it will NOT go away in a generation or two.

What women have now is choice, and we are literally SHOWING you what we want. No matter how much you wish that women would prefer to pick your socks off of the floor for the rest of our lives that is not the existence we want. Funny enough we don’t all want to become competitive career women either, you are creating a false dichotomy to benefit your opinions.

[–]Kaisha0010 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What women have now is choice

You always had choice. Women, since the beginning of time, have formed the foundation of society. Its why men are sent off to war or to perform the deadly tasks, losing a few men was far preferable to losing a few women. Culture is the effect, not the cause.

and we are literally SHOWING you what we want.

Except you don't know what you want. I can't find a single feminist who actually agrees with each other. Its all silly dogmatic sayings that have no meaning. Constantly contradicting each other and even themselves.

Funny enough we don’t all want to become competitive career women either, you are creating a false dichotomy to benefit your opinions.

Its merely observation, you conflate it with intent. Pretty much feminist tactic #3 (#1 being shaming, #2 the strawman, #3 observation = condone).

[–]LocuraLins1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of feminists disagree with each other because women aren’t a hive mind. Some women want careers, some want to raise a family, some what to flaunt their body, and others want people to stop staring at their body. Women are individuals with their own wants and desires just like men.

Nobody had lots of choices for a long time in many societies. Neither men or women could simply choose whatever they wanted. Both were given limited choices. I think people view men has having the choice but not women because men had a far greater chance of being financially and politically powerful compared to most women of the past. It wasn’t so much as more choice for every man but more opportunity for a few men. Now society is moving where both have more choices than ever. Women aren’t as pressured to have children when they don’t want any and men aren’t as expected to be the sole providers and to die needlessly (it’s still not perfect and we still got a bit to go, but we are moving in that direction).

[–]Kandace211 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

First, I find it interesting how you completely skipped over the case of Japan, really telling.

You always had choice. Women, since the beginning of time, have formed the foundation of society. Its why men are sent off to war or to perform the deadly tasks, losing a few men was far preferable to losing a few women. Culture is the effect, not the cause.

What you are describing is protection not choice (lol),they are not the same and you know it. Women were afforded physically protection because of the womb that is in us, we know that. It's the reason why a conquering tribe would allow us women to live not because they 'loved' us, they didn't even know us, but because our wombs made us useful to them. And even though our wombs belong to us that does not mean we had freedom and agency to control it. With physical protection by men came CONTROL by men. In fact men still use physical protection as bargaining chip for power over us, just ask any incel on how they wouldn't help a woman being attacked.

Do you really think that for the majority of history women have had the choice in who to marry? In whether or not work? In whether or not have kids? When my own mother was married against her will at 15 years old to my father? And it is still happening in my home country today.

No women have not had true agency until very recently in history. Freedom is the ability to say no and survive the consequences, women are able to say no to marriage and family largely for the first time in human history and so WE ARE DOING IT.

Except you don't know what you want. I can't find a single feminist who actually agrees with each other. Its all silly dogmatic sayings that have no meaning. Constantly contradicting each other and even themselves.

Just because we don't all agree doesn't mean that we don't know what we want. Feminism is intersectional, the experiences that I have are going to be different than another woman's, therefore we will have different wants and needs and different desires. Take black women for instance, who were by and large ignored by the white feminist movement of the 1960s and even more so by the suffragettes. That lead to the rise of womanism which was essentially a different 'strain' of feminism that looked at issues that pertained to black women in particular. Walker says that "womanism is to feminism as purple is to lavender" and I think that is a useful way to look at all the different strains of feminism, as shades of the same ideology that look at the problem of inequality from different angles.

Feminist disagreeing with each other is not a bad thing, It is a GOOD thing, it sparks debate, it allows us to look at how sexism, class, and religion, can intersect to create unique experiences by different women. Not all women experience sexism the same way.

what does not change is that we are PERSONS, and therefore deserve the same rights and freedoms that men enjoy. The right to work, to study, to control our bodies. Beyond that we can all disagree on how to get there and debate it out, one of my favourite things to do is to listen to debates between liberal feminist and terfs.

Its merely observation, you conflate it with intent. Pretty much feminist tactic #3 (#1 being shaming, #2 the strawman, #3 observation = condone).

I actually hope you are observing us, because sometimes it feels like men are not listening to what women DO but instead are making up their own stories or listening to the media and then hurting their own feelings when we don't act like they want lol. Everywhere you look women are having less children and focusing on their education, careers, and enjoying their lives. And not just the feminist havens, SAUDIA ARABIA and the other gulf countries are beginning to see women out-pace men in education and the birth rate is lowering https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/arab-world-silent-reproductive-revolution-190416060958876.html

LEBANON has a single-by-choice movement rising amongst is economically independent women https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGy97UxVB_I&t=97s

I'm sure you already know about the single by choice movement in South Korea. So yes I hope men are observing, don't assume anything just observe. JUST LISTEN TO OUR ACTIONS, why is that so hard?

[–]Kaisha0010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

First, I find it interesting how you completely skipped over the case of Japan, really telling.

No, I just have a limited amount of screen space and patience to address the bullshit.

What you are describing is protection not choice (lol),they are not the same and you know it. Women were afforded physically protection because of the womb that is in us, we know that. It's the reason why a conquering tribe would allow us women to live not because they 'loved' us, they didn't even know us, but because our wombs made us useful to them. And even though our wombs belong to us that does not mean we had freedom and agency to control it. With physical protection by men came CONTROL by men. In fact men still use physical protection as bargaining chip for power over us, just ask any incel on how they wouldn't help a woman being attacked.

Its funny, because you're so close... but you just can't put 2 and 2 together.

Freedom and responsibility go together. Newborns have the least responsibility (they don't even wipe their own ass) and the least freedom, children have a bit more responsibility and a bit more freedom, teens a bit more, and so on. So clearly by your logic, we 'love' newborns the least, and teenagers the most...

Historically women have had less freedom and responsibility than men, feminism wants the freedom but has no interest in the additional responsibility. That is why it is unsustainable.

Feminist disagreeing with each other is not a bad thing, It is a GOOD thing, it sparks debate, it allows us to look at how sexism, class, and religion, can intersect to create unique experiences by different women. Not all women experience sexism the same way.

Look at what you agree on. Men are bad... that is it. Feminism is, and never was about equality, it was a supremacy movement from the very beginning.

what does not change is that we are PERSONS

Yet you continue to treat men as some hive mind entity transitively responsible for every evil thing that has ever occurred. Start treating men as persons and we could actually have a debate.

deserve the same rights and freedoms that men enjoy. The right to work, to study, to control our bodies.

But not responsibility. They want the freedoms but refuse to even admit let alone address the other side of the equation. That's why feminism will fail.

Beyond that we can all disagree on how to get there and debate it out, one of my favourite things to do is to listen to debates between liberal feminist and terfs.

There is no debate, that's the problem. BPs and feminists don't debate. They just attempt to shame everyone or anything they disagree with (you're an incel/can't get a women/are just angry), strawmen the arguments in a weak attempt to manipulate (so what you're saying is...), conflate observations with intent (so you want women too...), then get angry and walk away. There's no arguing in good faith, there's just hand waving and ridiculous proclamations with no factual evidence.

I actually hope you are observing us, because sometimes it feels like men are not listening to what women DO but instead are making up their own stories or listening to the media and then hurting their own feelings when we don't act like they want lol.

Oh the irony... TRP has pointed out many verifiable observations, and every time BPs feel the need to attack every aspect. You want to see hurt feelings, just look at the BP posts of any of the last 20+ high-n count threads.

Less children links...

I don't disagree that women are having less children. This, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. But there is a difference between choice and feminism. Feminism will 'say' they support choice, then attack and denigrate any woman who puts family ahead of career. Just as in the past there were many women who would rather not just be housewives but feeling societal pressure to conform. Now there are many women on the other side wanting to be family focused but feeling societal pressure to conform. The pendulum swings, as it does.

This feminist caricatures that all housewives are frazzled, abused, and oppressed women with a lazy husband that does nothing to support her, and resents her life and children, is ridiculous. Its a TV trope, which is telling in and of itself.

So yes I hope men are observing, don't assume anything just observe. JUST LISTEN TO OUR ACTIONS, why is that so hard?

LOL and then get attacked online when said observations don't jive with this alternate feminist reality you've imagined.

For example, I observe that feminism is mathematically unsustainable... now you see 'why is that so hard?'.

[–]_N1ng3n24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In the US it’s less “feminism” and more generational wealth declining. The cost of raising children has increased but salaries haven’t kept up with inflation. By the time women have money for kids they’re often too old.

I’m a mid 20’s woman. I’d sort of like a child I’m the next ten years but unless one of us gets a massive raise, partner and I wouldn’t be able to afford it without basically becoming poor.

[–]emeral13211 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re implying that the millions of women who aren’t rushing to settle down young just for the sake of having children are all going to be single cat ladies drinking wine in their old age because apparently not having children = single forever.

So since there’s about a 50/50 split of men / women in the world for all of these millions of cat ladies there are going to be an equivalent number of single old ‘cat men’ or whatever we want to call them.

[–]icellphones2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm totally willing to be a cat step dad. Fuck having kids.

[–]heythere3608 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like you said, the grass isn’t greener. While they’re sipping their wine in their Ferrari’s, plentyyyy of married women are still complaining about their shitty marriage lives and how they’re now just turning a blind eye to their husbands affairs cause it’s too late to change the status quo.

Regardless of who is happier, women are becoming less and less desperate to marry and potentially get trapped by a lazy guy as he gets too comfortable. Men too.

We are making enough money to not make the same mistakes of our grandparents. Marrying after two years in the honeymoon phase never ended well for anyone. We are just learning this.

[–]Timely-Warthogy’all make me lose faith in humanity11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really feminism, just simple population growth. There’s 3 main stages

Stage 1 — High Birth Rates & High Deaths

Think of America pre-industrial revolution, or third world/developing countries. No contraceptives, high risk of infant death. Couples have more than a few kids to counteract the fact that many of their progeny will die before reaching adulthood.

Stage 2 — Low Death Rates, High Birth Rates

Think of America during/immediately after industrial revolution. People were still having just as many children, however due to technological advances, these children were living longer. This creates a population boom.

Stage 3 — Low Birth Rates, Low Death Rates

Think of America now, or any developed country. There are contraceptives, which allow people to have sex without risk of pregnancy. Incredible medical advances have left very little risk for infant mortality. Due to societal factors, people may choose to have less or no kids. This is where most developed societies level off. Birth rate & death rate remains somewhat stable.

This is the basic demographic model, although some examples explain this in 5 stages rather than 3. Regardless, it’s still the same basic pattern which every country goes through. Feminism alone has little to do with it.

EDIT: This graph explains it well, read more about demographic transition here.

CBD = Child birth deaths

CBR = Child Birth Rates

[–]xkitteakatx3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think that really depends on the individual. Seeing my mother and sister having 6 kids each makes me want nothing to do with that house wife life. You have to be the maid, the nanny, the nurse, the personal chef, the care taker of any and all pets the family acquires and still you get treated like a lazy piece of shit who is so lucky to stay home all day. And all of this is unpaid. And let's not forget that a woman also has to be her husband's person whore and be thankful for the "wonderful" life that he and his seed have "blessed" her with. And should her husband ever cheat on her she is the one at fault because it is her job to keep the marriage alive and preform all sexual acts the man desires regardless of your own health conditions because that is the woman's responsibility to ensure that her husband is well care for so that he doesn't stray from the righteous path and should he do so the woman is to blame because she obviously wasn't giving him what he desired, maybe he desires physical traits that only a person who has never borne children can have yet the wife is expected to keep up with the career woman who can afford sexy clothes because she goes to work, she can afford to stay in shape because she has her own job, she can afford to buy healthy food that prevents aging because she has money that would otherwise be spent on the energy vampires called children. If the next generation or two of women choose the house wife life it will be by some delusional romanticized belief that doing all those jobs unpaid for your husband and your offspring would somehow be more fulfilling and rewarding than working any one of those jobs and earning real money that you can use to buy yourself nice things. No mother that I know close enough to be 100% honest with me wants the life that they were forced down because they were with a man and had children.

[–]Kaisha001-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You forgot one important word. Chooses.

See women have a choice, and for most of history have always had a choice. Feminists love to paint history as this terrible thing for women where they were eternally oppressed and had no agency, this was just not the case.

Go back even 1000y and population densities were so sparse that you could walk for 20min in any direction and you were in wilderness. No one to tell you to do, or not to do, anything, you were truly free and independent. They stuck around because survival and raising children were hard and men/society made it easier. You know, working together and all that silliness that feminism threw out.

If the next generation or two of women choose the house wife life it will be by some delusional romanticized belief that doing all those jobs unpaid for your husband and your offspring would somehow be more fulfilling and rewarding than working any one of those jobs and earning real money that you can use to buy yourself nice things.

That's some grade A feminist bullshit right there. I don't know of a single mother that regrets her children, as much of a hassle as they can be at time. Not a single one would rate 'things' as more fulfilling than their family.

[–]Mkg1022161 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, but not every woman is meant to be a mother, or would find it to be fulfilling. And let's not forget all the mothers out there who secretly (or not so secretly) despise their children. They aren't that common but there are plenty of them. Overall, women may have a history of and an affinity for raising children, but that doesn't mean that every one of them is meant to or would be good at it.

[–]Kaisha0010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said they all should, or all would. I said 'chooses', meaning they had a choice. BPs keep saying 'but but but... not ALL women'. No one insisted ALL women.

But that doesn't change the fact that A) feminism didn't give women a choice, they always had that choice, society was a choice B) modern feminism has attacked and denigrated trad-marriages for a long time, and while some women are quite happy with a career, many (BUT NOT ALL) will quickly find themselves alone and miserable.

Its not an accident that STEM fields are filled with men (despite the push by the left) while nursing, psych, and other social sciences are filled with women. Women (NOT ALL WOMEN JUST MOST) like people more than things. This isn't a bad trait, rather this is a good thing. If more people valued family more than material goods, this world would be a much better place.

One of the largest faults of modern feminism is that they are trying to turn women into men while suppressing many positive feminine qualities. Our female ancestors were not weak women quivering in fear at the slightest hint of a 'trigger' cowering in a safe space. My great grandmother on my mothers side was a single mother (great grandfather died of pneumonia quite young) who was dirt poor and had to raise her family alone through two World Wars (she was British and lived in London). She would have said this feminism stuff was bullshit.

[–]the_calibre_cat5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

lol

Good God, do some dudes actually believe this tripe?

When in the history of humankind has any group ever walked away from a platform that largely advantages them? That has never happened and fair or unfair, feminism advantages women.

They're not going to walk away from that, because the grass literally IS greener both biologically AND once factoring in the fucking cornucopia of legal and social benefits for the Real People who possess vaginas. Who the fuck would turn that away?

You might as well argue that billionaires are going to sell their assets and reinvest in their workers and house the homeless.

[–]Kaisha0010 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Its not about what they want, or don't want. From a market perspective, the current feminist wave is unsustainable. Feminists want all the freedom and privileges, but none of the responsibility, and this can't be maintained long term.

Every creature on the planet from the smallest bacteria to humans, lives on a risk/reward or cost/benefit (same thing) function. You can't deviate from it for any length of time. Its like gravity, what goes up must come down, you can't increase reward without increasing risk, and vice versa. The world is a big place so these corrections take time, but it will correct. I fear it will hurt women the most when this occurs.

You might as well argue that billionaires are going to sell their assets and reinvest in their workers and house the homeless.

That's silly (despite the fact that some actually do), in part because, ironically, billionaires have little to do with income inequality.

[–]the_calibre_cat-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its like gravity, what goes up must come down, you can't increase reward without increasing risk, and vice versa.

They can shift risk to males, who are largely willing to shoulder it.

That's silly (despite the fact that some actually do), in part because, ironically, billionaires have little to do with income inequality.

They're the primary beneficiaries of income inequality. Either way, they're the ones in the benefited position, and no, precisely zero of them have sold all their stocks to reinvest in their workers and house the homeless. That has literally never happened, and even if it does once off, it doesn't disprove my point:

People in situations of benefit will likely try to maintain those systems of benefit. The only way that feminism ends is if it become sufficiently unbearable for men that they a.) largely agree on it's malevolent intentions, b.) some number of WOMEN recognize it's malevolent intentions (no movement of men alone for men will ever be taken seriously) c.) women's sexual power over men is recognized as a form of privilege (don't count on this one), and d.) it's malevolent intentions are sufficiently significant so as to cause meaningful hardship in their lives.

And actually, it's inching increasingly up on all of those metrics (definitely on A and B - I've even seen former white knights dogging on contemporary feminism), but it probably won't hit critical mass in my lifetime.

[–]Kaisha0010 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They're the primary beneficiaries of income inequality. Either way, they're the ones in the benefited position, and no, precisely zero of them have sold all their stocks to reinvest in their workers and house the homeless. That has literally never happened, and even if it does once off, it doesn't disprove my point:

This is all rather tangential to the point at hand, and you seem to be implying that I have a stated position on this. You're tilting at windmills my friend.

And actually, it's inching increasingly up on all of those metrics (definitely on A and B - I've even seen former white knights dogging on contemporary feminism), but it probably won't hit critical mass in my lifetime.

Public opinion is a pendulum...

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is all rather tangential to the point at hand

It was a supporting argument, which I maintain is more or less semantically analogous. Women are essentially the UMC-to-1% of sexual market value. Very few men break into that elite and the average woman is probably worth twice to three times what a man is in that context.

I'm just arguing - my analogy works.

Public opinion is a pendulum...

While yes, that remains to be seen with this. Women enjoy a nice special place in our socio-biological psyche, blowback against them has never really been tested, because they've almost never had the kind of widespread social validation AND political freedoms that they enjoy today. Sure, they had civil rights in ancient Egypt and Phoenicia, but at least to fuck dudes were way more down to fuck other dudes, and neither Tinder nor the wall of blue pilled "women are never ever wrong or bad" establishment media were a thing.

[–]lilastr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you a woman?

[–]willwa21030 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are spot on. Couldn’t agree more with you. That’s one of the main reasons the dating market is such a mess.

[–]-Solitude--Aspiring Psychopath12 points13 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea how women think. As a guy, though, I know plenty of guys that say sex is extremely overrated, and that they prefer the companionship they get from a relationship above all else. In all fairness, though, most of the guys I know are the kind that are 100% invisible to women. Perhaps it’s true that the kind of guy that a woman actually notices is the kind of guy who tends to only be into sex.

[–]Nitiel3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

But that goes for guys too! I am going to translate those statements. „most guys are the kind that are 100% invisible to women“ -> women out of their league. Of course they won’t get noticed by a 8+/10 when they are under 8/10 themselves. In all fairness, they should date lower, but they are too selfish to do that so they turn down every single offer from below a 8/10.

[–]-Solitude--Aspiring Psychopath3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

most guys are the kind that are 100% invisible to women“ -> women out of their league. Of course they won’t get noticed by a 8+/10 when they are under 8/10 themselves.

You’re projecting. Most guys see the majority of women as above average in terms of appearance. A 6/10 woman is as attractive to a man as an 8/10 man is to a woman.

In all fairness, they should date lower, but they are too selfish to do that so they turn down every single offer from below a 8/10.

This statement doesn’t apply to most men in any way. This is something the majority of women are known to do. Again, you’re projecting.

[–]Nitiel-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

WHAT? This is the biggest lie I have ever come across. How can you deny my experiences and the vast majority of women? Gender rating goes for both ways, but numerous studies have shown actually men are much much more strict when it comes to appearance. They will treat you like shit if you don’t look a certain way.

Stop denying FACTS and dismissing them as „projection“. Go make yourself the same experience, put up a dating profile of a 6/10 woman looking for a relationship. I think this’ll make you overthink everything, I can promise.

[–]-Solitude--Aspiring Psychopath6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gender rating goes for both ways, but numerous studies have shown actually men are much much more strict when it comes to appearance.

Men have significantly more testosterone than women. Testosterone is largely responsible for the sexual attraction someone feels. Thus, men find the average woman significantly more attractive than women find the average men. Men may be more strict in terms of women who are below their standards, however their standards are worlds more lenient and fair than women’s standards are.

They will treat you like shit if you don’t look a certain way.

This isn’t anywhere close to all men, and you’re lying to yourself if you honestly think that women aren’t frequently guilty of this type of thing as well.

Go make yourself the same experience, put up a dating profile of a 6/10 woman looking for a relationship.

There are countless YouTube videos out there of experiments like this. I’ve seen more than enough to paint a very clear picture of how easy women have it compared to men, especially in online dating.

And I’m sure I don’t need to remind you that downvoting is against the rules.

[–]sorebum4052 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Stop denying FACTS and dismissing them as „projection“. Go make yourself the same experience, put up a dating profile of a 6/10 woman looking for a relationship. I think this’ll make you overthink everything, I can promise

Women get far more matches and messages than men on dating sites.This has been proven by tons of tinder experiments.I even saw one experiment where they made a tinder profile using a picture of a woman in her 80's, and guess what they still got tons of matches and messages and they matched with lots of guys in there 20's and 30's who were above average looking.So this idea that women and men have similar experiences with dating apps is completly false.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Matches yes... for hookups and ONS.

[–]sorebum4051 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Still proves my point though.Women have far higher looks standards for ONS and even LTRS as well.

[–]Mkg1022161 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know plenty of guys that say sex is extremely overrated, and that they prefer the companionship they get from a relationship above all else.

100% this. My bf and I both know that we could both probably get a lot of sex if we were single, but we agree that the companionship and support that we get out of our relationship is worth way more than any number of one night stands.

[–]John_Magnus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do they talk to women?

[–]-Solitude--Aspiring Psychopath0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A few of them have female friends, but I don’t think they talk to too many women aside from those few friends.

[–]verdantsound6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

both want both but each group find it easier to fulfill one of the two needs and harder for the other. So it appears that they just "want" that one, whereas it would be a more accurate statement to say that they are more "desperate" for the other.

As a guy, I can land a relationship pretty easily, sex is harder to come by (outside the context of a relationship)

[–]garbagedreams0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was a really good description. It definitely makes a lot of sense too.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think the trope of "women want relationships" is less true now with the growing popularity of childfree women. If childfree women want relationships, its gonna be more for consistent, high quality sex than anything else. At least, that's true for me.

Edit: and I think "men just want sex" is also less true as a reaction to women going childfree. Because now it's become harder for men to get relationships as well as sex.

So I think if our goal is to bring more men and women together, what we need is a new reason besides having children.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If childfree women want relationships, its gonna be more for consistent, high quality sex than anything else.

There is much more to get out of a relationship than just sex and kids. There has always been a reason besides reproducing to be in a relationship. If not, then I guess infertile people would just be undatable and unmarriable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sex, companionship, an adventure buddy if you're both travelers, a business partner if you're a power couple like the Gates... you get the gist.

I'd be interested to see the disparity in male/female answers to a survey on "What do you want a relationship for?"

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point. I guess the most important thing is that you find someone who wants the same things out of a relationship that you do.

[–]ifosfacto0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with what the poster above said in my observations of women, but its more so women who have careers and other passions in life, rather than just humdrum jobs and not passionate with other hobbies or past-times beyond say socialising with friends. I think it also depends a bit on how easy it is to get commitment when they put their foot down as well. In the women I know (age 30up) who are like this they are on the more desirable side, so don't have the scarcity of options mindset. Same with similar men. They know there is more than sex, and they know they can still get the commitment down the track when sex isn't as big a deal and other say nurturing/supportive or a 'a gentleman who know how to treat a lady' aspects are more important for them.

[–]Mimoxs9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's accurate for the majority of the population but untrue for a significant portion as well. It's just the general trend for it to go in the majority direction.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I feel like this a misconception and actually plenty of women just want to fuck or have short term relationships that are largely physical, moving onto a different man when they get bored.

I think that these women ultimately still want to find that ideal man, but are purposely behaving promiscuously because either a) they don't feel at a stage in life where they are ready to settle down or b) they have lost faith in men and see them just as flesh dildos to get off with. Women who are of a mature enough mind that they do want to settle down and who still actually like men will be trying to use sex as a way to attract a man into a relationship so that he will help provide genetic material and resources for her children. Women and men are wired a certain way due to thousands of years of evolution, and recent social and scientific developments like birth control and feminism aren't going to change fundamental behaviors all that much.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyUpperWhiteTrash5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or they just aren't relationship material, but don't realize it themselves. Often they have impossible criteria to meet in men, or conflicting traits and don't see the walking contradiction of a man they are looking for.

[–]ameli3929 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely false, I (F) am not interested in a relationship and way more interested in casual sex. In my circles at least this divide isn't really a thing.

[–]momentumguy4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I don't know why people here keep pointing out that women don't enjoy casual sex. At uni, all the girls I knew had many more frequent hookups than the guys (obviously also because they couod do it whenever they wanted).

[–]425199842519982 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Statistically women are less likely to orgasm for a casual sexual encounter hence why it’s seen as less pleasurable for them.

[–]momentumguy0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Right but women are also more like to enjiy sex without an orgasm than men are.

[–]425199842519981 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not from my experience but ok.

[–]momentumguy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Almost 1/3 of women never get to experience an orgasm, it doesn't mean they don't enjoy sex. On the other there are practically no men who would enjoy sex without orgasm.

[–]425199842519981 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From my experience not experiencing an orgasm really dampers your enthusiasm for sex. I didn’t start to fully enjoy sex with bf until I was able to climax. But that’s just my experience

[–]rubbooyuri5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We want the same things but prioritize and get different things out of them

[–]Zippo-Cat13 points14 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, everyone just wants sex. "Men are gatekeepers of relationships" is just wishful thinking of betas who desperately want to keep some ground on the SMV.

Even if you replaced "Men" with "Chads" that statement would still only be 50% accurate

[–]pablosito9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

If you want marriage men are the ones (majority of the time) that make that decision. If you want sex women are the ones (majority of the time) that make that decision. That’s generally what that means.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If you want marriage men are the ones (majority of the time) that make that decision.

Marriage is a mutual decision, and it's customary for the MAN to ask for it.

[–]pablosito2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah... but it’s the man who asks. If he doesn’t ask no marriage. I get what you’re trying to say but don’t deluded yourself. Sex is also a mutual decision but men pretty much always want sex and it only happens once the woman agrees to it. Anecdotal story, female friends of mine long wanted marriage before their partners but it wasn’t until their partners agreed to it did the plans go underway.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're speaking for all men, all women, and all relationships. There are women with high sex drives and men with low sex drives. Same can be said about how long men and women have wanted marriage. Women proposing to men is becoming pretty mainstream. Most importantly, the old idea that women don't enjoy sex as much as men and that it's normal for women to always be reluctant to give their partner sex is problematic and in a relationship, it isn't healthy. It insinuates that women aren't supposed to enjoy sex as much as men, and that women should have to be "worn down" and pressured into having sex, giving in just for the sake of your partner. It also implies that if you're a man and you aren't always willing and ready to have sex, there must be something wrong with you.

[–]pablosito0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you’re talking more about the exceptions rather than rule women in average don’t have the same sex drive as men and you can blame either god or biology for that. I’m simply talking about majority’s here. Look at my other comment. As per 2019 only about 16% of heterosexual marriages did the woman propose.

[–]evleva1181-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You do realize that while you are obviously still stuck living in the 1950 that thankfully most of us have moved on right? Plenty of times now it's the woman that propose marriage, we no longer have to wait for a man "to decide". Keep up.

[–]JoeMama000000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Calm down kiddo

[–]pablosito0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You’re a fucking idiot who clearly can’t see the reality of the world around them. Here’s a quick google check. Skip to the relevant part. But I’ll summarize as it 2019 only about 16% of women in heterosexual marriages proposed. So when I say “if you want marriage men are the ones (majority of the time” who make that decision.” I can back my shit up. The only thing you’ve said that’s added to my statement is “it’s no longer the 1950s” good observation dumbass.

Fuck people like you piss me off.

https://chillisauce.com/blog/post-8ddd70df400174b29fe5

[–]evleva1181-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oooh touched a nerve didn't i little man🤣🤣🤣🤣

[–]pablosito1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, dumbasses like you make me weep for the future of mankind because you’re probably gonna have children and your idiotic and wrong views are going to be passed on. That said you don’t seem to have a response to anything I said sooooo suck my dick I guess?

[–]akihonj3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're correct but missing certain points

First point is that people tend to discuss issues in general terms, one of the ways the illiterate use to destroy any general argument is to say oh no not me so your argument is bs so there.

Well of course that's true for the specific case, generality applies to the norm not the abnormal. So for everything said there will always be special cases for which any generalisation cannot apply.

Secondly people tend to discuss issues from their personal perspective, so what I may experience others might also or at least to a degree, others might experience wildly different things related to the very same subject, however my experience doesn't diminish yours nor does your mine, conversely most people tend to think the opposite in that I have experienced horrendous lows while going through a divorce, it's natural to want others to agree with me that theirs was also likewise horrendous, that just isn't the case.

It's similarly natural that since my divorce I've agreed to relocate for work and have worked in various parts of the world, met many different women and had similar experiences which formed my views and pushed me to chose mgtow, it's natural to talk about them and to want others to agree, see my point of view and follow my example so to speak, but again the paradox that my life is not yours, applies to everyone, see the rule there, not everyone will experience the same as me so not everyone will be able to or even want to agree.

It's certainly a conundrum.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it's a misconception. Plenty of men want relationships. Men tend to want LTR's, although some of us want MLTR's.

[–]verdantsound1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the fuck is a MLTR?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Multiple" Long Term Relationship.

Plates.

[–]Nitiel-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

„Plenty of men want relationships“ GOOD JOKE. Never heard of hookup culture? Never heard of actual STUDIES showing that the vast majority of men are unable to commit in 2020?

[–]TommyEatsKids3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For sure a misconception. I want relationships more than sex 100%

[–]averagedude421 points22 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Of course women want sex but only with the top 10% of men

[–]barbodelli12 points13 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Such a strange statement. You honestly believe that all women have the same exact standards and appetites?

So a 20 year old gorgeous chick who can have sex with just about any man and can get a ton of Chads to commit. Is going to have the same standards as an obese single mother in her 40s?

Think about your male friends. Do you all have the same exact standards? What makes you think that women do then.

[–]stephcurryftw22 points23 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's not that the standards of the obese single mother in her 40s changed, it's that her options ran out so she's forced to change from chasing the top 10% to chasing the top 40%. Would she have sex with some beta bux now who she would not even give the time of day 20 years ago? Yes, but she's not doing it because she genuinely wants to for him, but for what he now provides.

[–]barbodelli10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

First of all the top 40% of men are not touching a 40 something obese chick with a kid. If her standards are "top 40% of men" the only thing she'll ever get is an occasional chubby chaser. Problem with chubby chasers is that they are similar to Chad since they have a ton of options (options that most guys just plain ol don't want). Which means they either treat you like shit or never commit at all.

Secondly I can tell you from personal experience that my standards and preferences have changed a lot throughout my life. When I say "changed" I mean that this person used to turn me on but no longer does and vice versa. I used to be really into black chicks, nowadays I've lost interest in them. My overall "threshold of attractiveness" has nosedived a ton since I've gotten older. Threshold is an important term because it means that I actually find those people attractive. I'm not "settling". It's not settling if the person satisfies you.

[–]Kaisha00112 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes but men have thresholds, women have hierarchies.

You give a woman a choice between 10 men and she'll choose the top 2-3; 100 men and she'll choose the top 2-3; 1000 men... well you get the idea. The beta becomes attractive because her choices have shrunk.

Men are not the same. You give a man a choice between 10 women and he'll choose 4-5; 100 and he'll choose 40-50; 1000 and he'll choose 400-500, etc... This is why guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger will still bang the ugly maid.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[removed]

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No Black Pill/incel comments

[–]DicamVeritatemRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Yes but men have thresholds, women have hierarchies.”

Carve that one into the granite.

Hypergamy.

[–]John_Magnus-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how you think anyone above the bottom 10% would be interested in sleeping with an obese 40 year old.

[–]-Radical_Edward1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mostly yes, at least that's what all the studies show

[–]goneaway2thewind2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm not 50 like some of you so I'm biased but the majority of women in my life just want to fuck and aren't interested in a relationship

[–]Nitiel-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That’s NOT true. Again, this is highly subjective, but I make the quite opposite experiences. More and more men are trying to get alot of money and don’t want to commit at all.

[–]goneaway2thewind0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

"In my life"

Common phrases I hear

"Not looking for a relationship" "I don't want anything serious" "I just want to find some experiences first" "I'm just young right now and wanna.."

Most women don't have attention spans even close to the what PPD women even have and even that bar is low. They don't think of the future or others happiness they are thinking "Who can make me feel the best at this very moment"

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know where you live, but where I live most men don’t want to commit. That’s a full blown fact. What you are saying is completely new to me.

[–]goneaway2thewind0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why would they when so many women are fast to fuck without it and refuse to provide any redeemable support to incentivize them to stick around

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

FINALLY you admitted it but then proceed to make pseudo-scientifical arguments solely because you can’t process the fact that alot of men don’t want to commit anymore. Every guy single 2020 is unable to commit CASE CLOSED.

[–]goneaway2thewind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was talking about the women in my life, they don't want to commit either. I didn't say you were wrong it was just a non sequitur to the point. I will be the last one to say men want relationships right now, men are dropping out because relationships with women are one sided burdens to men. When all they choose to provide is sex, that's all they become valued for.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I think you have to look at two different definitions of "want"--desiring a thing for its own sake, and desiring it to preserve your ego.

I suspect a lot of women who try and get some loser to be their boyfriend don't actually want to be in a relationship with this loser -- they want to prove to themselves they can. I suspect a fair number of men pursue ONS's not because it gives them any greater sexual pleasure than having sex with someone they're dating, but to prove they can.

There's "wanting", but it's awfully tricky to tease out ego-want from abstract desire.

[–]Urbantexasguy13 points14 points  (50 children) | Copy Link

Once again, Red Pillers and incels ignore the VAST effects of socialization on women. It's not that women have significantly lower BASE sex drives, it's that their drives are always STRONGLY CURBED, by concerns regarding physical security, reputation, STD's which are often more damaging to women, and of course, the BIG one....pregnancy.

Most men have very, very little awareness, of how much more conscious of their physical safety, women have to be, at ALL times, than men. Even if the other factors I mentioned above, didn't come into play, the security factor alone, is going to greatly limit women's enthusiasm for potential sexual activities with men they have just met.

Like I've said before.....understand women's socialization, understand the desires, fears and concerns, that have been pounded into them, from the time they were little girls, and you understand women.

[–]John_Magnus5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women's sex drives are also impacted by various hormone levels and their menstrual cycle.

[–]YasuotheChosenOne4 points5 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

The only thing on your list that actually limits women’s enthusiasm for sex is reputation. All that other stuff is just nonsense. Strong fit men get the most pussy. STDs can be prevented, cured, suppressed, or just lied about. Pregnancy is nearly 100% preventable and even if you get pregnant, it can be aborted.

[–]Urbantexasguy3 points4 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Wrong....all the factors I mentioned, weigh heavily on every woman’s mind. Listen to women, visit women-dominated subs like FDS. Physical security is a paramount concern, as are the other items.

[–]YasuotheChosenOne3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

So then why aren’t all the slow, weak, short, fat men drowning in pussy? Why is being tall so important, when height just adds more mass?

[–]Urbantexasguy2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Are you seriously asking me why women don’t go for short, fat, slow, weak men? Do YOU like short, fat, slow, weak women? I don’t. Security concerns do not belay standards of physical attractiveness.

You have to demonstrate that you are safe, because you respect women, not because you’re so physically pathetic, that you couldn’t harm a woman even if you wanted to.

[–]YasuotheChosenOne0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Are you seriously asking me why women don’t go for short, fat, slow, weak men? Do YOU like short, fat, slow, weak women? I don’t. Security concerns do not belay standards of physical attractiveness.

I never said these men were unattractive...

You have to demonstrate that you are safe, because you respect women, not because you’re so physically pathetic, that you couldn’t harm a woman even if you wanted to.

Sure there’s a degree of comfort required, but again, dangerous men are still drowning in pussy. Women are attracted to psychopaths and bullies. Respecting women, while admirable, doesn’t mean shit if you aren’t attractive. Cue horn-effect.

[–]evleva11810 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Short fat slow weak men" DEFINITELY sounds very unattractive to me!

[–]YasuotheChosenOne0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It was meant to represent a weak, unthreatening guy. I should’ve said frail instead of fat lol

[–]Urbantexasguy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL Let him have it, girl! Don’t hold back! 🤣🤣🤣

[–]rosskh-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Or you could just carry a gun and actually take control of your physical security. Maybe then you won’t have to walk around assuming every man is a predator until proven otherwise.

[–]Urbantexasguy0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You’re talking to a guy who used to have a CHL himself, until I let it expire. Still, the threats that men and women face are different, and a gun isn’t always practical for them.

[–]rosskh0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Fair, but I can’t think of a situation where it’s impractical for a woman to have a gun that wouldn’t also be impractical for men. Getting assaulted- gun will probably help. Getting taken advantage of while intoxicated- gun probably won’t help. I would agree that the latter is probably more common for women though so fair enough.

[–]Urbantexasguy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the difference holds true for almost any “intimate” situation. As a straight guy, I’m certainly not going to find myself undressed with another guy, and my gun far away! LOL

On the other hand, if a woman’s relationship with a man proceeds, she’s going to find herself in that situation, at some point. Women have to vet men carefully.

[–]rosskh1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

“THE BELLY-BAND HOLSTER STAYS ON DURING SEX”

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, gun or no gun, that's just what every day life is like.

[–]rosskh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot less so if you have a gun.

[–]DicamVeritatemRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So, believe women’s words on this subject, and ignore their actions which are so contradictory?

Thy pill be indigo.

[–]Urbantexasguy0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Please don’t hand me more of the tired, worn out, “If you want to know how to fish, ask the fisherman, not the fish!”, crap. I’ve been listening to women for a half century, and it’s never steered me wrong.

[–]DicamVeritatemRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Classic. No way a man who has lived a day in his life....

[–]Urbantexasguy0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Not sure what you mean. I had an "N count" in the mid-20's by the time I finally got married, and that included a few multi-year LTRS. I never had any significant trouble scoring with women, if sex was all I was after, which wasn't always the case.

In fact, I was having such a great time as bachelor, that if it wasn't for the fact that I wanted to be a father, I probably never would have left the bachelor life. One of my very best friends is a woman, and we've been BFF's since 1998. She's always given me great advice, on what works and what doesn't work, when it comes to women.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

„In fact, I have been living such a great time as bachelor (...) I probably would have never left the bachelor life“ -> that’s how majority of men think right now. Hookup culture and such. Men wasting women’s 20s forever.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

How is living your 20s in asexuality the womans fault? Why are a large number of collective individuals punished for something a Very Small Part of the Society - basically a minority - is doing? Oops sorry I am born with two XX Chromosomes I can’t change that shit.

[–]DangZagnut3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

They absolutely have lower sex drive compared to a man. They basically are a rock.

Men chase women. That's it. If women had comparable sex drives to men, then society would look nothing like it does.

Their socialization is irrelevant now. Maybe back decades ago, like many decades ago, when people went to churches in small towns. But now?

Nope.

Most men have very, very little awareness, of how much more conscious of their physical safety, women have to be, at ALL times, than men.

Ah yes, the endless rapes. Standard feminist tripe. All men murder women, yah da yah da. I wonder if their daily and endless murders are in any way related to the men they chase. All that wild excitement.

[–]Urbantexasguy2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Basically, they are a rock....for YOU. Do not project your experiences upon other men. The women I’ve been intimate with, during my half century of existence, have been very enthusiastic. Look within yourself.

[–]DangZagnut2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In a relationship, sure. But not at all like men.

Men chase women. Women don’t give a crap. Don't pretend sex within a relationship with a sex drive in general.

[–]evleva11813 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why don't you go and crawl back under a rock. And stay there.

[–]DicamVeritatemRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

IOW, Zagnut has won this argument.

[–]DangZagnut-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't yell at me that you were lied to that men and women are the same.

Reality over feels.

[–]evleva11811 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Oh my god you are a certified idiot who thinks he knows how we feel and what we want 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[–]DangZagnut0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Then explain all society and how evolution works, and why it's completely not how men and women are.

Women select from men, by definition they have to be sexual selectors. They desirable mates they hold out for requires women to not just go fuck everything that moves.

Men spray seed, women select from the various seed sprayers. Otherwise society wouldn't look anything like it does.

Feminists wouldn't scream all day long about "rape" all day long if they had anything approaching sexual urges like men. Women wouldn't pay long cons to get free meals and entertainment and hold out sex as long as possible. FDS wouldn't exist and would make no sense.

Would a male dating strategy exist based on "hold out for at least three months until she's proven to be a good provider before, maybe, letting her tap that?"

No, no it wuldn't, because men care about sex, and women's don't.

Men want sex, women use sex to bait a hook for cash and prizes. That's it. Don't blame me that's how the species worked. Humans would never have evolved to where they are now if women fucked all willy nilly.

Women wouldn't make 20,000 endless excuses for why they won't fuck, and instead and 20,000 reasons why they would.

Sorry. Women simply have zero sex drive compared to men.

Within a relationship, sure, but that's not a sex drive, that requires 15 situations to be suitable for her to even want to. You see none of that for a man.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminists wouldn't scream all day long about "rape" all day long if they had anything approaching sexual urges like men.

Well I guess men just don't get raped, then. Because men are constantly thinking about sex and nothing else. Any chance at sex they get they should be grateful for, consensual or not! -_-

Men want sex, women use sex to bait a hook for cash and prizes. That's it. Don't blame me that's how the species worked. Humans would never have evolved to where they are now if women fucked all willy nilly.

Women wouldn't make 20,000 endless excuses for why they won't fuck, and instead and 20,000 reasons why they would.

Tell that to the hundreds of women who want sex multiple times a day, relationship or not.

[–]DangZagnut-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I guess men just don't get raped, then.

Mostly by men, who have a sex drive, unlike women.

When women "rape" it's when they're raping children, which they do in surprisingly high numbers.

Because men are constantly thinking about sex and nothing else. Any chance at sex they get they should be grateful for, consensual or not! -_-

And that's the majority position. Sarcasm or not, it is how it is.

world population of women: 4 billion

your contention: hundreds of women who want sex multiple times a day

Tell that to the hundreds of women who want sex multiple times a day, relationship or not.

So they just lack the fingers to swipe right on Tinder? Or can't go to a bar and pick someone up?

Oh right, they don't do that, because women don't have sex drives like men.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know if you have been on Tinder but the vast majority of women there have „NO HOOKUPS/ONS“ in their profile. It’s a dating app, after all.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tell that to all the women who have high sex drives, and the men that take it as a challenge but then come to find out that they can't keep up.

[–]DangZagnut0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tell that to all the women who have high sex drives, and the men that take it as a challenge but then come to find out that they can't keep up.

So, a couple dozen women out of a world population of 4 billion?

So why don't these poor horny women go to a bar and pick someone up for free sex? Or swipe right on Tinder?

They don't do that now do they.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

NOT TO MENTION the shame that women are given when they enjoy sex. Society expects women to want sex less, so young girls are taught that it's dirty and that only boys are supposed to want that. If they want sex more often than a man does, then they're too slutty or horny. It's not that the man isn't enough to satisfy her, but that she is too much. If she needs multiple partners to be satisfied, she's a whore. If she watches porn, she's gross, cuz that's something only men do.

[–]DicamVeritatemRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If women were so obsessed with fear of male violence, they wouldn’t be so anxious to get naked with the most violent men.

[–]standerpington640 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

no, testosterone is largely responsible for what makes you horny. you can verify this for yourself by working out and noticing you become more horny afterwards

[–]momentumguy0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

So why is male sexlessness higher than female sexlessness amongst young people?

[–]Urbantexasguy3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There is some minor degree of hypergamy, but not anywhere near what young men complain about.

Frankly, I blame the social awkwardness, general lack of charm, and lack of physical maintenance (fitness, grooming, dress, etc) among young men. To put it bluntly, young men do and say stupid things, and they look like crap.

As a older male, I’m often disgusted by the things that young men do and say, when it comes to women. If I’m disgusted, I can only begin to imagine, how young women feel about them. Sorry if that comes across as generational badgering, but sometimes that is what is needed.

[–]momentumguy-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol so it's men's fault?

[–]Urbantexasguy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You catch on quick! :)

[–]Nitiel-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It actually is! Most men don’t even have basic hygiene. Women have it alot alot harder in finding a guy to commit WHO has hygiene, common sense (no psychological issues) and isn’t aggressive.

[–]siletntium0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Then why do men masturbate more? Why do gay men in a relationship have so much more sex than lesbian women in a relationship?

[–]evleva1181-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh really? How often does the average woman masturbate then since you know it all? As an average woman with average woman friends im curious to know if were doing enough/too much.....

[–]siletntium0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

average man 3 times a week average woman 1 time a week

[–]Grave_Heresy5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There is a disconnect between how things actually are and how we have been taught to believe they are. This is because most men are still operating off of what they learned from their parents and grandparents. In the past, women didn't have as many economic opportunities as they do today. So men were a great source of financial security. Also, sexual liberation wasn't a thing in the 40s. So women used sex to secure relationships with high value men.

Today, after title IX laws, affirmative action and government agencies such as the EEOC and changing societal attitudes about females in general, women are no longer dependent on men for resources.

On the cultural side women have more options for contraception than they ever have had in history (Even more than men). We have effective treatments, cures and vaccines for every known STD. Also, you have massive cultural shifts around sexuality with the "free love" movement in the 60s and the "Sex positivity" movement of today.

So on one hand, we have removed the need for women to secure a long-term mate and on the other we have removed every deterrent from having casual sex.

Finally, the advent of the information as has allowed people to meet significantly more people than they would ever have in the past. Apps like Tinder enable us to come across more potential "mates" in a single day, than we could have in several months without them.

The average millennial woman today has more men pursuing her for sex in a single month, than her mother, grandmother and great grandmother have had in their entire lives combined. Further more, she is able to evaluate and reject her suitors at a safe enough distance (via a smart phone) that it can be done with relative ease without accusations of shallowness (A frankly obsolete deterrent of promiscuity).

As a result, females in the West are much freer to exercise their hypergamous nature in the dating market. They are being bombarded with hundreds of advances on Tinder and Facebook. They are given a massive amount of non-sexual attention in the form of affirming statements and reposts by low quality beta males on Twitter. Finally, they are casually flirted with irl ogled with on Instagram.

I think that the majority of women have sex because they want to have new exciting sex. They consider relationships only when they begin to get close to the wall. This is why women report getting bored with the sex in their relationship before men do, it's why women initiate the majority of divorces.

Their hypergamous nature combined with the vast amount of sexual experience that they have compared to the men that they settle down with makes their husband or bf unbearable in the long-term. So they have to dump them to continue to pursue casual sex with high value males.

So yes I believe that women are just as interested in casual sex as men if not more. The problem is that people are still operating off of way things were 70 years ago when a woman couldn't afford to be as casual due to the biological, financial and social consequences.

Folks need to update their schemas. This is 2020 not 1920.

[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great post, I always enjoy reading these much longer posts in PPD. And I can't disagree with you, all those things are very much present in Western society. Given that so many more women don't want children and they don't need to rely on a man's resources, what use is a beta man to the average woman in the West?

[–]Grave_Heresy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for reading I always fear that people will see the essays I write and scroll past it. Sorry I accidentally made another essay. Tried to shorten it but...

To answer your question, in my opinion beta males serve as LTR for post wall women who still feel the need to emulate their mothers and be wives and mothers.

Women want the emotional validation that comes with a beta husband and they still want a provider. Not because they are economically dependant on men, but because they are biologically hardwired to find these traits desirable and pursue men with them. And let's face it, a provider is easier.

In all honesty, they would like for Chad or Tyrone to be their husband and father of their children. However, these men are the top tier guys and they access to 99% of females. So there is no incentive for them to settle down with the average 5-7 in looks woman.

This is where the betabux husband comes in. By their 30s most women are tired of the casual hookups, they are tired of being the sole provider for their needs and want the validation, social clout and financial benefits that comes with having a husband. They also want to have a baby before their time runs out. Unlike men, most women only have 36 years tops to produce a kid. After that a pregnancy becomes largely unviable.

Ideally, they will get pregnant by the alpha male and supported by the beta male. This doesn't always pan out but I have seen some women pull it off.

What betas have to realize is that this arrangement is temporary. After 7-10 years she gets fed up with the boring sex and the wife life. This is usually when he gets served the divorce papers.

Now divorce will absolutely benefit her. Because she will stop working to raise the child. She will never go back to work because being a house wife is 100 times easier for today's woman than it was for her grandmother. If she does go back to work it wont be full time (This is key).

So when she divorces him, he has to pay out alimony. In most states 10 years of marriage will get you at least 10 years of alimony. In states like California, 10 years of marriage gives you a life long alimony. So for at least a decade, she can play the field for one last time in her 40s with the guarantee that her lifestyle will be subsidized by the beta. In some places, they may get the house and part of his retirement.

So, you can see that the beta male does serve some purpose for the average and below average woman albeit a temporary role. But it's not because they need him per se. It's just because he makes life a bit easier for her.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Emotional support? Jeez, some people forget that the world is lonely sometimes. No matter what generation or what gender, there's always people who just want the companionship, love, and support that comes from a long term relationship. Sex and kids aren't the most important reasons to date or get married. Sure, they're the most primal, but don't need a relationship to have those.

[–]evleva11810 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Finally someone who's not living in the past on here!

[–]Grave_Heresy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You probably won't agree with all of my views lol

[–]MerryVegetableGardenPost-TRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s a useful generation *generalization.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s a very harmful misconception that men only want sex and women just do it because they “have to”. There are plenty of men out there with a low libido or are straight up asexual. And there are plenty of women for whom having sex is very important. This misconception causes a lot of hurt and confusion for everyone involved

[–]SpencerWS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its true that sex plays a larger role for men than for most women, but that doesnt mean that men dont want relationships.

[–]BlackPorcelainDoll✟ Fear Aŋd Ŧremblinğ 👠 Automods Mistre§§ 🖤1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On a general level fine, but I think the reason a lot of hypersexual women cheat & all this divorcing is happening is precisely because they don't want the "wife and girlfriend" lifestyle, I do not think all women want to be some dudes wife for 30 something years & grow out of it in the marriage itself

Too many dudes approach these random women thinking they want to be treated like a wife or some guys forever girlfriend and trying to tie down the type of woman that likes that freaky shit and being with certain types of men

[–]WilliamWyattD1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are biological differences in the urges underpinning the male and female attitudes, but those biological urges are more complex than one would think and highly mediated by culture.

In today's western culture, I still do think that on average men have more interest in sex, casual or otherwise, than women, while women have more interest in a relationship. But the difference is less stark than in the past and there is room for a lot of variance in each gender, and overlap between the genders.

[–]ivy1761 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't necessarily equate men who prefer relationships as automatically more sensitive. Some men that want lots of casual sex are soooooo sensitive and needy for attention and affection and validation.

But yes, I think it's a misconception and that most people of any gender want relationships with the right person and some people are strictly No I Just Want Sex Long Term but they are men and women. Though men are pushed into that more often by their peers and taught it means you're more successful in some way because you humped someone like a mindless chihuahua. So it's probably a bit more men. I think a lot of men that are proud of it and try to sleep with as many people are usually fairly insecure. The guy that sleeps around the most that I know cries a fair bit.

[–]jonathaninfresno1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s complicated. Women want resources but also have a biological impulse to breed but also biologically reject emotional beta men. Guys are wire to protect care maintain women. We must also add to the equation to 65% divorce rate. And if we read the statistics 75% of chilsren are born to single mothers. Also 126,000 abortions are performed evwey day. That all mean this: u enter into a relationship at your own peril

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Luckily, emotional beta men are just my type.

[–]L0SERlambda1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunate misconception.

[–]Apprehensive-Tiger781 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a misconception. I’d say both want both. I think that this misconception arose as a result of the older generation’s “standards” of a “proper” male and female.

[–]Mkg1022161 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. This old idea implies that women aren't supposed to want sex, especially not as much as men. This belief has been passed down and is the reason why people think women don't want sex as much. It because they're told that they shouldn't.

[–]MisterJose1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think the difference lies in the power and idealization of the feminine in the male mind, particularly when they're younger. It adds an extra layer on top of everything. Without that, you might think "hey, we're mutually horny now, nothing horrible about having some fun with this person."

But with that extra layer guys get, you're thinking "OMG she is so hot. If she were to like me, want to be with me, have sex with me, that would be the most amazing thing that would possibly happen. And the reasons I want that to happen have to do with the idealized role I've cast for this image of woman, rather than the actual person behind it. Everything I now do must be a strategy to try and get that to happen, and all I care about is what will work to make it happen."

Various things, including experience with women, getting laid, age, self-confidence, etc. can help to take away that aura. But other things, such as loneliness, youth, bad experiences, social disconnect, lack of confidence, etc. can enhance it.

So, it's not that it's one or the other, it's that men get this added thing which alters priorities and thinking when it comes to the value and role of sex.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It really is true though. Men are taught that their worth is tied to how good they are at pulling women into bed.

[–]Zombombaby4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, I love sex. Women can love sex. We're just constantly told not to.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. It's such an old idea that men are supposed to always want sex, and that they're supposed to have to wear the woman down and convince them to let them smash. The concept creates hundred of problems and unrealistic expectations for men and women to meet.

[–]Zombombaby1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, women have been having sex for fun since the dawn of mankind. Lol

[–]kwalden23 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, it's a large misconception. Individuals come in many varieties with many different desires. No set of imperatives is so overwhelmingly common that is is acceptable to make assumptions based on gender.

[–]Mkg1022161 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. To say that men objectively want sex more than women or the other way around is just incorrect.

[–]Mememaker132 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just want to be loved

[–]BerniesAnalSlave1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think we are all humans with human needs. Men might have a little bit more testosterone that makes them a little bit hornier. But really the differences are small.

[–]leo-brukhva4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah just 100 - 200 times difference. Just a little bit more.

[–]Zippo-Cat3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]masquerage2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men might have a little bit a lot more testosterone that makes them a little bit a lot hornier. But really the differences are small large

FTFY

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men like sex for it's own sake. A man can have good sex with a woman, even an anonymous woman he just met, and find that experience enjoyable. If it's spontaneous, hot and she enjoys herself, this makes the experience 100x better. There is something very powerful about attracting a woman and spontaneously having good sex.

Men can also enjoy sex within a relationship - ranging from FWBs, to LTR, to marriage...

WOMEN on the other hand. Oh boy! It's a bit more complicated.

Women CAN like the spontaneous "gotta have it" sex, but I think it's far less common with women than with men. Women don't get motivated as much by the visual and physical ALONE like men do, and seem to need other emotional and mental processes for sex to be desired and... "functional"...

There also seems to be (a) sex with alpha (HOT!) and (b) sex with Beta in honeymoon stage (Not bad!) and (c) sex with Beta during marriage (Ummm....) and then affair sex and post marriage Carousel Part II Cougar sex. Oh, and baby making sex - that can be hot, or not. Sometimes it's more about cycles and dates and "OKAY NOW! GET IT IN!". Scary.

[–]evleva11811 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You really made all that up all by yourself ae! Clever boy!

[–]Sid_InsidiousMGTOW VolCel Mall Santa1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No I asked a woman. The one that lives under the stairs.

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[–]WorkaholiconewNo Pill, Leaning red, Brazilian.0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is a misconception.

Men want sex(all) and long term relationships(betas).

Women want relationships with the best men.

[–]Pastelitomaracucho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both want both but men are hornier

[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say that by in large it is not a misconception.

For women, I dont really know many that sleep around without relationship like attachment. They just jump from STR to STR every few weeks/months. I don't think I have ever met a woman that chooses to stay single(the internet has talked about it) They may call some guys FWB's but they are just dating around. Sex it semi important but it seems spending quality time with a guy is a necessity to live. In my opinion women more enjoy the ups and downs of relationships. They are addicted to the emotional push and pull significantly more than the physical aspect of things.

For men I think it's the opposite to where relationships are semi-important. Their friendships serve nearly as well as their relationships for filling the relationship void. If most guys could have some sort of harem and it were socially acceptable, they probably would do so. A smaller amount of guys than that would be happy with a 1 way(he only gets to do it) open relationship. An insignificant amount would belong to the women are only good for sex camp though.

In the end I would say both want a bit of both but heavily favor one of the two aspects over the other.

[–]Stokelly1000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it's accurate for the most part. Men are definitely in for the sex and also want a relationship. There are exceptions like everything, but still, I think the fuel in this case is the sex part. My classmates mostly did subtle sex talk with their buddies about their girlfriends, whereas the girlfriends talked mostly about the relationship.

[–]tropicsGold0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the axiom is that women are the gateway to sex, and men are the gateway to relationships. Of course both sexes want both. They just have different points of power.

[–]tallwheelManosphere Unificationist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Generalizations are generalizations. But they can sometimes be useful to make broad arguments about general tendencies in groups.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it's important when you're in a relationship to have similar needs when it comes to sex. If you're in a relationship and having sex, it should be because you both want a relationship AND sex. You shouldn't be in a relationship to have sex, and you shouldn't have sex to be in a relationship. This misconception portrays unhealthy relationships as normal or expected. I don't want to be in relationship with someone just to be in a relationship if that person values sex over everything else.

[–]YetAnotherCommenterPurple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both want both, but the weighting varies between the sexes.

[–]standerpington640 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you're right that men want sex, but wrong that women want a relationship merely for the sake of it. the woman typically wants protection and resource provision. a relationship simply defines the (proposed) exchange of sex for protection/provision taking place between typically a man and woman.

[–]thowway999990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Somewhat. I personally can say that I’d rather have a meaningful relationship over meaningless sex any day of the week. Being in a relationship almost feels like a drug tbh, and a breakup feels like withdrawals. I can have an orgasm by myself but I can’t date myself. I can’t say the same with women wanting relationships though. I know a lot of girls who actually are loyal (or claimed to me and were as far as I know) but nowadays I’m seeing more and more who post their boyfriends every other week while a few dudes in the squad copped nudes or fucked her a few days ago. Shit like that makes me scared to be in a relationship. Which is probably why some guys stick to meaningless sex.

[–]prunusamygdalis0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmmm examples. How about the nonstop rape of women and girls? Are you brain damaged?

I mean, that’s just the most extreme “example.” There’s also the nonstop sexual harassment/catcalling/groping. The drugging women’s drinks. The coercion, refusing to take no for an answer, pursuing girls that are young and inexperienced with the goal of violating and dominating them body and spirit.

Examples lmao.

[–]Suck-Less0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People want sex only or relationships at various times in their life. It's not a gender driven binary answer. The big difference today is that many men have seen what happened to the boomers when she got board and he lost everything. So men are learning to view relationships from a self protection perspective instead of a happily ever after view.

This is especially true now that many women make as much as men, but all it takes is her saying she was abused and all hell comes down on the man.

Personally id rather be with a woman I fuck every day than fuck a different woman every day. But that's just me... maybe?

I don't fall for the "women are innocent, men are dogs" garbage. I do however notice that when women a more stable income they seem to magically start wanting relationships instead of working harder.

Put away the gynocentric garbage. Men and women can have a high or low libido.

[–]Alberic2092-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men want sex and relationships, women want status.

[–]masterdarthrevanPurple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is generalization but the way I see it you have to look at 1) age group of x gender .. 2) their smv and 3) that person's potential to bring in resources. So for example if u look at 30s-40s middle income men = 75% just want sex ~ 25% want relationship ( this is made up) whereas same age bracket and social caste for women you'll get the reverse 75% want relationship ~ 25% just want sex/fun. A man with lots of recourses aka rich would tend to be in the just want sex bracket but probably won't care about the females potential to bring in resources. So depending on where you look and how you choose to look at it you will get different results.

[–]Gordon-G0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Legalize prostitution,...make it safe, inexpensive, readily available, and without stigma...simple business transaction! Won’t have so many thirsty monkey-simps placing women on a pedestal!

[–]sylvesterthecat110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Female here. I’ve noticed that even if I knowingly and intentionally start something as “casual,” I end up wanting a relationship. Even if I know the guy is bad for me/not compatible long-term. I love men. I love sex. I don’t love getting hurt when it doesn’t work out.

I’ve come to the conclusion that oxytocin is a bitch.

I ended up making a deal with myself—no more casual relationships. Aka, no more having sex with a guy I find insanely attractive who does not have the undercurrents of a potential relationship. It’s worked out wonderfully, as I am now in a happy and committed relationship with a man who wanted a relationship and wasn’t forceful about the sex. Go figure.

[–]dalia-chan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Simply because men can get a relationship 100x easier than women with the opposite sex, while women can get a one night stand 100x easier than men with the opposite.

An plain chick can get fucked by a chad because of how sex thirsty he can be, just like I see plain dudes marrying Stacies because of how the Stacy want to settle down.

I literally see men complaining of how they’re so ugly that they can’t get sex without getting into a monogamous relationship, while women complain about how they’re not pretty enough to get commitment easily ( and no they’re not aiming the top tier men). I see a dozen of average looking men shorter than 5’8, who could easily get a relationship with above average looking women, but they don’t want to, cause they prefer to fuck around. All the men in my family and my neighborhood who aren’t hideously ugly , never think about settling down before the age of 40.

Men can like romantic gestures, sweet talks ( think about the prostitues that literally offer a girlfriend/wifey experience) the problem is that they usually want that with multiple women , because of how much they crave variety.

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's why you get you a girl who can offer the wifey experience and variety.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You want a human being or a robot?

[–]Mkg1022160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're rare, but they exist in the wild. Takes a lot of luck though.

[–]Sea-Buffalo-1 points0 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

It really depends on age. Men do want a relationship early on in their adult life till about mid 30s. After they they realize life is not bad single and have are ok being single and realize it has it perks. They still want sex but not a relationship unless the risk is low (no kids and prenup).

Women on the other hand don’t want a relationship but do want sex early on till they hit their late 20s early 30s. Then they realize they are running out of time to have kids and family. As women get older they want a relationship more and sex less.

Men hold the cards when it comes to commitment these days because of what each gender offers. This is why you see so many single moms today.

[–]425199842519982 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Lol where do you guys live where the majority of men in their early twenties want to settle down and get married already. Not even in my conservative Mormon state do most men (Mormon included) want to get married in their early twenties. Stop lying, if you did a survey asking young men when they want to get married that vast, vast majority would not say their early twenties. Your friends are either odd or you are making stuff up.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

It all depends on the type of men you are looking at. In my friends group I have guys who are alphas/ bad boys that will never settle down. They get plenty of women attention and enjoy the freedom. And to be honest any woman who wants commitment from them is a fool.

But a lot of my male friends have good jobs and want to find a woman to have a family with. But they are not the top 20 percent type of men that women want so they cannot find one who wants to commit to them.

If a woman can’t find a man who is willing to commit it means one of two things. She is trying to date above her value or she is going after bad boys or alphas who will never settle down.

[–]425199842519980 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Or the man in question could be young, wants to enjoy his youth and not be tied down with responsibilities like marriage or kids yet when he is still trying to kickstart his career or focus on his studies. Most men don’t fall into the two narrow categories you listed, bad boy alphas or love starved incels. I live in state where plenty of men want to get married and have kids because of their religion, and guess what, the vast majority don’t want to get married or settle down in their early twenties. So you need just accept your friends are odd and in no way represent the majority of young men, who if you surveyed would not say they want to settle down in their early twenties.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Most men I know and for the majority of history have looked for a good woman to find in their 20s to marry and build a life with.

Women today don’t want to do that any more. They don’t want to be by a mans side and struggle with him. They want to wait at the finish line and find him when he is 30 and making good money and expect him to marry her, give her kids, and support her.

If you look around there are plenty of good men that don’t want the stress and headache of the hookup culture.

But women don’t want to admit most of those men are boring and not what they want.

[–]425199842519980 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

If men are so desperate to settle down, then why does research show when men outnumber women, marriage rates are higher and median age for marriage is lower while the opposite is true when women outnumber men? Why do colleges that have more men then women have less of a hookup culture then those with other way around?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/55892-how-gender-ratio-affects-marriage-rates.html

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because women are the ones who control hook up culture not men. If there is more men than women it means there is more for women to choose from and not feel like they are settling.

If there is more women the women compete for the men and allow the hook up culture to happen.

[–]425199842519980 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Did you read the article? When men out number women, women have a higher market power in dating game thus the female imperative rains sumpreme but the opposite is true when women outnumber men. If it was truly male desire to settle down and marry early and women were the ones ruining that because they wanted to sleep around we would see that in gender ratios where women outnumber men, marriage rates would be higher because it gives men more options to find someone to settle down with. But the opposite is true, when women have more power in the dating market, this leads to earlier marriage, less single mothers and more marriages in general.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are not factoring in age and other issues. If you have a group of women and men in their 20s the men are chasing the women. But when it’s a group in their 30s and 40s it’s reverse.

Since the dawn of time men have found women early on in life mostly during college and built a life and family together.

Only recently have women decided they want to put that on hold and wait till they are almost 30 and have a career.

Men have just decided the juice isn’t worth the squeeze anymore because of how women have changed.

I know pertly of guys that would love to find a QUALITY women to wife up but most are not wife material anymore.

I’ve lost count how many women I’ve heard say all the good men are taken. Trust me there are good men out there on their 20s that want a wife and relationship but the women friend zone them or call them the nice guys.

[–]425199842519980 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Right so you are just going ignore my research which points to your assumptions being wrong.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I make quite the opposite experience. I know that the majority of heterosexual cishet male people in their 20s-30s don’t want to settle down and be an „Alpha“, it actually became and Epidemic amongst young heterosexual cishet men. Since no one wants to be the „beta“ (remember, this is the internet with accessibility to EVERYONE) anymore, I know so many tryhard Alphas (regardless of looks, they try to sell themselves as an Alpha in front of your eyes) who will try to be a lifelong bachelor. It’s kind of sad to watch.

The vast majority of men in their 20s are unable to commit.

[–]Sea-Buffalo-1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I disagree the vast majority of men I know would like to have a wife and start building a family in their 20s. The issue is any women worth marrying don’t want to settle down in their 20s because of all the opportunities to date around, have fun, etc.

That’s why you are seeing a epidemic of single women in their 30s unable to find a man.

What’s the old saying, why should a man give a woman his best years when she didn’t want to give him her best years.

[–]Nitiel1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

ME AND MANY WOMEN IN MY AREA WANT TO GIVE MEN THE BEST YEARS BUT THEY DECIDE NOT TO like c‘mon make a Profile on a dating App as an 18 year old woman looking for commitment and watch her getting played, abused and made fun of. Enjoy.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

If she holds fast on her virtues she won’t get played. If a man really wants commitment he won’t pressure them for sex or anything of the sort.

Women today know that committing at a young age denies them a lot of fun a freedom they could have in their 20s.

I know several women who have admitted such. They got men to shower them with gifts, money, trips etc trying to woo them into commitment while they were in their 20s.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don‘t know in what world you live in, but I am already 25 and since me and my boyfriend broke up with eachother (he moved away when I was 20, so we had to break up) I haven‘t found any single heterosexual cishet men that was ready to commit. Again, try this yourself. I feel like I will die an asexual spinster and so do my friends. I am getting mad at all the comments stating that several men want to commit LMAO BITCH WHEEEEEREE.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

The fact you keep calling referring to men as “ cishet men” tells me your politics are not compatible with most single men today.

Men today don’t want a relationship with “woke” women. Men will have a hook up with someone who is on the left and “woke” but won’t commit to them.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2020/01/9244509/laurence-fox-anti-woke-meaning

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I was just trying to be more specific, but yes I am a college educated woman.

And no, I am not into the hook up culture and never have been.

[–]Sea-Buffalo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I know plenty of college educated women who don’t feel the need to use the new “buzz” words to try and signal.

[–]Nitiel0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are actually missing my point. My what you call „buzzwords“ still don’t deny the fact that most men in their 20-30s don’t want to commit.

[–]Aspanu24-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. It’s hard to find single women worthy of dating, the same as it is finding high value men. Single moms, 3 kids, different dads to deal with, no career, known for sleeping with tons of men, multiple men per week.. lots of baggage for someone who has no kids of their own yet, a career, their own house

[–]HUSLIME-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not a misconception. Male instincts want sex. Female instincts want sex and security from top males. Therefore male sexuality will manifest more often because it is unadulterated (purely sex) and is not limited to the best females. That's not to say men do not value companionship. We do. Sex just takes a greater priority whereas for women it is mixed. Exceptions do not make the rule.

[–]gopher_glitz-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's by and large accurate but there are always exceptions to the rule.

Imagine two islands 5 miles apart. 1 is full of women and 1 is full of men.

Men are going to be building rafts and shit or just straight up swimming over to the female island and it wouldn't be so they could listen to their problems. It would be for sex, where the reverse wouldn't be true.

[–]prunusamygdalis-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I think that's generally the way it goes. Is it ALWAYS the way it goes? Absolutely not. But enough so that it's not a misconception.

I actually did experience the opposite for the first time in my life. An actual relationship was impossible because of timing/life/logistics. I was happy to have a casual thing as long as we could and enjoy each other. He couldn't deal with the reality that it was so impermanent, that we'd be in separate states in a couple short months. We had to just stop because he was catching feelings too hard and unable to enjoy our time together, which ruined it.

[–]UTC24-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For women sex is the mean to the end, which is a man's resources and utility. For men it is the end. Women can very well do without as many of them here attest and men can't. Most of them anyway. This makes tremendous difference in how men and women operate.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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