Do you think some modern western women are hypocritical when it comes to most men's preference for non-promiscuous women?

storffish · 2018-08-29T00:50:11+00:00

everyone thinks they're a better catch than they are. everyone thinks they more than make up for their faults with their good looks and sparkling personality.

once you understand that you'll understand why so many people are hypocritical when it comes to dating and romantic standards. you see it more blatantly in women because of men's thirst and desperation: there might be something about a girl that is absolutely nasty and foul, but some guy somewhere (more likely 10 or 20) will tell her it doesn't matter she's beautiful hoping to get a sniff. those guys are bottom feeders who will tell any girl what she wants to hear, of course, but social media and dating apps provide some degree of plausible deniability on that front. so if a guy is actually honest with her and tells her she nasty, she's less inclined to believe him.

reluctantly_red · 2018-08-29T01:44:59+00:00

(deleted comment) ... She ceased dating him because her friend pointed out he was a little chubby. Somehow it was okay until her single female friend pointed it out.

Yes, the vast majority of women really care and worry about what other women think.

An early warning sign regarding my ex-wife was when she had to drive my old Ford F150 pickup truck while her car was in the shop. Several of the bitchy woman at her office teased her -- "WTF I thought you married a lawyer" type stuff. This really upset her (a guy would have just told them to fuck off). Interestingly until she was teased she didn't have a problem with my old truck. Indeed I purposefully drove it the night of our first date (1987 Fords are pretty good gold-digger repellent). It was only when her coworkers disapproved that she had a problem.

Post script: One of the first things she convinced her new guy to buy her was a brand new 35K SUV.

TallSwaggOVO · 2018-08-29T05:36:19+00:00

Tbh a lot of men aren’t mad at female promiscuity, their mad that their female is isn’t promiscuous with them. More so mad that they aren’t as sexually adventurous like they were in their past. A that a lot more men wouldn’t care about their girls past, as long as she as sexually adventurous for him.

cxj · 2018-08-29T02:11:38+00:00

Yes many of them are, mainly the ones who are stuck in “dating” past 25 or so. There’s really two main categories in pairing off: the ones who do so early on and naturally with their “best friend” (I estimate 40% of people), and everyone who gets stuck in “dating “ including most of TRP. The babes who pair off with average joe at 20 because they’ve known him forever aren’t like this because they aren’t thinking too hard.

wtknight · 2018-08-29T02:24:45+00:00

Yeah, sure it's hypocritical. But women can get away with it because men are thirstier for sex than they are. If a high N woman has a problem with some men disliking her high N-count, she'll always find some man who doesn't care what her N-count is to settle down with, and if for some reason she doesn't, then she's much more content being single than a man would be. If an average man has a problem with a woman's high N-count and expresses it, then most women won't have anything to do with him and society will just look at him as a loser not getting sex.

hammerhaunts · 2018-08-29T00:43:22+00:00

Thoughts? Are these women lacking empathy? Do you think it's men lacking empathy?

Empathy is a meme word that does not describe the thing being searched for here.

How do we deal with it and make it copasetic for the heteros?

Genetically engineer people to be less retarded

toronto87 · 2018-08-29T00:42:36+00:00

Women's preferences for what they'd consider to be a good long term mate frequently inadvertently end up describing men in the 97th-99th percentile. So yes. Women have absurd standards that lead to relationships where they feel they are settling when they aren't.

Uncommon_Sense_12345 · 2018-08-29T00:59:16+00:00

People just don't think. My sister, early 30s, went out with a guy who had a bit of a stomach, not bad for his age which was early to mid-30s, good job, etc.

She ceased dating him because her friend pointed out he was a little chubby. Somehow it was okay until her single female friend point it out.

I find it hypocritical that women such as her will complain about men wanting younger, slimmer prettier women than judge and dump a guy for his slight dad bod.

Oh well.

GridReXX · 2018-08-29T13:20:10+00:00

Are these women lacking empathy? Do you think it's men lacking empathy?

Yes, and yes.

This is about each gender's imperatives. Each gender wants to fulfill and realize its own imperatives even if that must be done at the cost of the other's. Women don't care that they can't offer men high income/provisioning ability, height, and brute physical strength. And they don't care that men might not like this. Women want it because that's what their lizard brains perceive they need. And men don't care that women can't offer these things. They care that she's hot, young, and offering immediate sexual access.

Men don't care that many of them can't offer women low Ns or virginity while at the same time demanding (or at least preferring and wanting) low N women or virgins for commitment. They care only that they want that in a woman and will seek to get it if they can. And women don't care much that men can't offer low N or virginity. She cares that the man before him has things she wants and can use; that he is offering them to her; that his strength and height will be used for her protection; and that she has unfettered access to his resources to get her the stuff she wants and needs.

And men and women don't much care that the other sex doesn't like their preferences/needs, or thinks their preferences/needs are illogical or unfair. They care only that they want those things and can this man/woman offer what they want. So, yeah, it's a matter of lack of empathy. Which is probably a good thing, because it drives men and women to serve their own imperatives the best they can.

The main reason men and women get their hackles raised about the other's preferences/wants is that they know they probably can't offer the other what they want. Women get so damn pissed whenever N is brought up because they know high value men don't like it, they know high value men don't want to commit to it, and they can't offer what a high value man wants. That's why they lie about it.

Men get so riled up whenever strength, income, good looks, masculinity, etc. are brought up because they know they don't have what it takes to get a high value woman into the sack. They know the only way they can get even fatties and middling women to look at them is to throw money at them. They know they can't offer what a high value attractive woman wants and can get on the open market. The difference is that men can't lie about it very easily. You can't lie about your height, your physical strength is easily ascertained or estimated, and if you're a poor boy that will be known pretty fast.

Even if empathy is there does that change that the nature of it all frustrates us nonetheless?

No, it doesn't change, and the nature of it will still frustrate us. Remember that empathy is "putting yourself in the other's shoes to attempt an understanding at how a situation affects the other person". Even if men understand how women want strength, money and height, it is no easier on the psyche or the ability to actually offer something a woman wants. Even if women understand how men don't want to commit to hoes and sluts, it's no easier on the high N slut now looking for her expected George Clooney. Your N is your N, and what's done is done. Your N cannot be undone. You fucked the guys you fucked. You can't go back in time and unfuck the guys you fucked.

How do we deal with it and make it copasetic for the heteros?

The heteros are doing the best they can now. Women are accepting men who earn less than they do and rationalizing it as "but he's still masculine in other areas". High N women, having failed to secure commitment from high value men, are accepting lesser men and rationalizing that too. Men are accepting sluts and hoes, and still attempting to turn them into housewives, with limited success. Women are compromising enormously on sexual attraction. Men are compromising enormously on, well, pretty much everything.

petrichordium · 2018-08-29T00:46:35+00:00

There is a difference between being overly choosy and desiring things that don’t make any fucking sense. And in my opinion as a promiscuous guy who almost exclusively dates promiscuous women, I feel many men are asking for things that make no sense.

For instance if a woman wanted a man who was financially secure and ambitious but he NEEDED to have time to bum around the house all day with her… that would be stupid because those are two things that don’t really go together (unless you only date idle old money dudes). It’s not just overly choosy; it’s incoherent.

In a similar sense, The problem isn’t that men are wanting non-promiscuous women... the problem is that too frequently men want a virginal woman who magically transforms into a personal porn star for them and them only.

To me that is the difference : it’s one thing being overly choosey and unrealistic (your friends with their laundry lists if they aren’t stunning hot babes). They can adjust their expectations but still use that general value system.

It’s another to desire things that just logically don’t go together.

poppy_blu · 2018-08-29T02:38:29+00:00

Except it isn’t true. Most men, “manwhores” included, don’t really care, as long as she isn’t the town bicycle or has fucked any of his friends.

Men who care to a fault:

-religious

-tradcons and conservatives in general

-inexperienced

-from small town America (I get it; I wouldn’t want to be the guy everyone snickers at when I walk in a room with her either)

-manosphere autistic types who will inevitably become obsessed with calculating the imagined number of Chad bangs she did in the past divided by the number of months she has left before the wall multiplied by his 1-10 SVM rating to come up with the exact predicted date she will branch swing with the local Starbucks barista.

I could care less if a guy wants a near virgin. We just wouldn't be compatible and both keep it moving.

Ps looking for perceived fairness in others preferences is a losing battle.

ifeelfuckingterrible · 2018-08-29T02:57:21+00:00

People have standards that they can afford to have. If someone can't find anyone that meets their standards, they will be adjusted accordingly, unless they are happy being single.

Men and women sometimes have "double standards" because men and women are different and want different things out of their partner. For example, if a girl likes to cook and enjoys cooking for her partner, she isn't necessarily going to expect that he is as good in the kitchen as she is. And if a guy has plenty of money, he isn't going to expect that his girl makes as much as him because she doesn't need to.

SkookumTree · 2018-08-29T03:34:33+00:00

Height and strength are relatively biological; 95 percent of men are taller than the average woman and 99.9 percent of men are stronger than the average woman. Income? That gets a little interesting. As far as empathy, there are some aspects of this that get a smidgen hypocritical - like if a 6' tall woman only wants men that are taller than she is.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-08-29T04:36:04+00:00

Duh.

Women are hypocritical about their standards.

Men are hypocritical about their standards.

The female and male sexual imperatives are irreconcilable.

GridReXX · 2018-08-29T07:07:15+00:00

Yes, of course those chicks are hypoctitical. They demand to marry a naive BB having ridden the CC of plenty AFs before. As if promiscuity is something that ceases to exist as soon as a chick gets married.

[deleted] · 2018-08-29T09:59:26+00:00

I think every gender (which are only two by the way) is allowed to have preferences.

Problem is that culturally mostly men are shamed for having preferences (which usually look like "double standards").

And even more so, people even say that having such "double standards" is wrong. But it is mostly wrong when male are having them, not women.

Men do not "love" sluts. They just like to have sex with them because sluts are the opposite of prudes basically. However, no sane and rational man would want to marry a slut because he usually uses his brains a bit to evaluate a female specimen (of course the rest of evaluation comes from his "dick brain" but that's another story).

The reasons why men choose "virgins over sluts" were debated ad nauseam in this sub so I won't go that way.

I do not think either gender is lacking empathy. Just that men and women are different and they have different expectations from their partners. The issue here is society. Real question should be, in my humble opinion:

Why is it ok for one gender to have a say in what they want and not ok (misogynistic) for another gender

I expect many ploops and bloops going into some kind of rage where they claim that men are allowed to have preferences too yada yada.

nomansweb · 2018-08-29T14:09:54+00:00

When it comes to the heteros it seems there's always going to be some imperatives that are at odds or restricting to one sex or the other.

Yes, but it feels good to complain and it's so much easier than introspection, add to that women's advantage in the SMP that they often mistakenly confuse with the RMP.

Nothing you can do about that if you're a man, except be the best possible version of yourself and maintaining some standards for women as well.

rhyth7 · 2018-08-29T14:49:52+00:00

Mostly I just want a man at my level. I don't want him too tall or too short because it's uncomfortable to hold him, I want our bodies to fit nicely. I wouldn't want him making too much or too little because then there's gonna be a weird lopsidedness, money is one of the things people argue about most with their partners. If we're not leaning on each other too much when it comes to spending then that's best. A nice dick is nice but only if he knows how to use it. Big dicks usually don't and only care about their pleasure. I want a match in looks, personality, and intellect. It feels weird to me that others don't and try to go out of their leagues. I want to maximize compatability.

killallthenarcs · 2018-08-29T15:54:58+00:00

Look there's nothing wrong with someone wanting a partner who is better than them, especially if that is what it takes to seal the deal. Sometimes people are so happy alone or find the emotional stresses of relationship so costly that the only way it will work out is if they find a partner better than them on many measures. The only thing that is really wrong is when someone attempts to make that failure the market's failure to meet their desire for a better partner anyone else's problem other than their own. Set your standards high, miss out, shut the fuck up.

You can't expect women to show empathy in general for the dating woes of men who are not their personal platonic friends. I mean why would she... those guys in general are looking to stick a dick up her that she doesn't want up her and there are literally hundreds of millions of guys ready to do that. You're asking the rabbit to have and show empathy for the hunter and his hounds.

How do we deal with this? Focus on being polite to the other sex and finding ways to remind them to also be polite... forget about seeking empathy, forget about closing the distance if the person isn't into it.

Scrupulous-Monster · 2018-08-29T16:24:16+00:00

Of course they are, but it’s human nature. Hard to blame them for acting according to their biological imperative.

kandyapplez · 2018-08-29T01:49:16+00:00

to a degree yes (were all hypocrites), but i feel like with this example in particular tho, girls often get pissed by the reasons men use when they say they don't want to date sluts. people generally don't want to be called gross, be subjected to dumb psuedoscience about their behavior, or even hear people say their genitals are beat up and loose. having a preference for x doesn't mean you have to have scorn for y, or at least be loud and public about the scorn.

for some reason men aren't content to just not date sluts, they have to actively and repeatedly go on and on about how much they don't like sluts whereas women are more likely to not even acknowledge the existence of men that don't fit their preference

rainisthelife · 2018-08-29T04:01:11+00:00

Women get quite a bit of backlash for stating their preferences too. Especially if those preferences are the traditional ones specifically made to benefit women.

A woman that claims to want a man that provides, so that she can stay at home and not have to work, will get backlash from men. Most modern men expect their wives to work and a woman that wants to stay home and just spend her husband’s money is often labeled as “entitled”. And/or a lazy gold digger. Cooking and taking care of the kids is not enough. The complaint about feeling like a walking ATM is not uncommon.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-08-29T01:20:17+00:00

Yes. Some are.

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wekacuck · 2018-08-29T01:58:04+00:00

I really don't understand how what you are describing is hypocritical. Hetero women want dicks from men without offering men dicks. And hetero men want vaginas from women without offering vaginas to women. That's the type of patterned fundamental argument you are making. But it's not really hypocritical.

largepaycheckaddict · 2018-08-29T04:47:38+00:00

I don’t think hypocritical is the right word for it. But I think they’re a bit delusional to believe that most men are ok with settling with a woman who’s had a ridiculous amount of sexual partners. Only desperate and naive men do this en masse.

There’s plenty of research that shows women with high N counts are more likely to feel unhappy/unsatisfied in a monogamous LTR/marriage and are more likely to cheat. Almost every woman I met who is very liberal when it comes to sex is not marriage material. Same goes for men.

There are reasons why cross culturally, societies have upheld a standard of chastity. You can scoff at it as outdated superstition all you want, but humans aren’t very different now from how we were since the dawn of civilization. Women who are unchaste often wind up single mothers to bastard children and live the life of a lonely old maid into their later years with no one to care for her in her elder age. I know this might upset some of you but it’s the truth.

flamingoinghome · 2018-08-29T07:00:09+00:00

I dunno, I'd say men care quite a bit about height and strength. They just care in the opposite direction. Most guys would be very uncomfortable to date Gwendolyn Christie, even though she's very attractive.

I also think this sub exaggerates how much normal men care about a woman's sexual history. I know there's an ancient manosphere fable about The Slut Who Won't Fuck You The Fun Way, but most guys don't care about your sexual history so long as it doesn't involve anyone he's close to, and you don't yammer on about it.

KikiYuyu · 2018-08-29T08:25:43+00:00

Not sure what to say about this post. Obviously vain and hypocritical women exist.

exit_sandman · 2018-08-29T12:43:13+00:00

I am not sure I would call that hypocrisy considering that what women are demanding in your scenario (men being stronger and taller then them) to some extent complements the expectations of men regarding women (women being shorter and more delicate than them).*

The comparison between "women having physical standards" and "men having sexual standards" is a bit wobbly considering that one might easily say that this is apples and oranges. But on the other hand, "having standards yourself/expecting that prospective mates meet your standards while not allowing others to have their standards/expecting others to make an exception for you because reasons" can very well constitute hypocrisy even if we're talking about entirely different traits here.

*Personally, I wouldn't consider a cute 5' tall girl who wants a guy who is a foot taller to be a hypocrite. I also wouldn't consider a 30 lbs overweight woman who is fortunate enough to have the physique of a fertility goddess because she has her excess bodyweight in all the right places to be a hypocrite if she expects a guy to be ripped and studly, even though he probably does a lot more for his body than she does for hers. But I would consider a frumpy unattractive woman who expects to land a hot and successful guy to be a hypocrite.

Bruchibre · 2018-08-31T09:29:59+00:00

Yes they are.

"some modern western women"

why Western? you guys seriously need to broaden your horizons.

What's the point of stating "some", it loses all the interest. Some women do, some women don't. Then what?

You are too PC to post here, try again.

Eartherry · 2018-08-29T08:25:05+00:00

Western women aren't asking for anything out of the ordinary. Most men easily meet the standards you mentioned. And since women have a much easier time attracting men her chances of getting what she wants are pretty good.

What men are asking for are virgins, a very rare occurence in and of itself, especially these days. She'd not only be rare, but also in high demand by men across the board. She, of course, would only choose amongst the highest value men, of which many might still lose out anyway due to the shortage in supply. The chances of the vast majority of men getting what they want are so abysmally low it's not an expectation, it's a fantasy.

It would be like a woman refusing to drive anything but a Lexus while a man refuses to drive anything but a flying car. One is an achievable goal worth the time and effort, the other is foolishness.

Title	Do you think some modern western women are hypocritical when it comes to most men's preference for non-promiscuous women?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	30
Comments	274
Date	August 29, 2018 12:34 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9b4go7/do_you_think_some_modern_western_women_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-some-modern-western-women-are.261003 https://theredarchive.com/post/261003