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FDS and TRP were born and exist due to ugly people who's standards are too high

February 23, 2022
155 upvotes

I really don't believe it's anything more than this. Since FDS women and TRP men won't date each other, they just form groups to shit on their respective low value counterparts. Both sides only want high value partners, yet the high value partners don't want them back and they figure they need some sort of "strategy" to pin them down.

CMV?

Edit: I think it's ironic how both sides are going "we're not like them!" And then proceed to give me things as examples that both sides do.

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Post Information
Title FDS and TRP were born and exist due to ugly people who's standards are too high
Author SmarmyPapsmears
Upvotes 155
Comments 488
Date February 23, 2022 3:02 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/fds-and-trp-were-born-and-exist-due-to-ugly-people.1103305
https://theredarchive.com/post/1103305
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/szjirr/fds_and_trp_were_born_and_exist_due_to_ugly/
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Comments

[–]NockerJoePervert Palpatine 20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

One thing you hear from both sides is that less attractive people don't really treat you better regularly. Which is the real issue. Bad behavior has become universal.

[–]cvslengthbucketlist 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's true but they often take that observation to a dogmatic extreme and turn it into a justification for having superficial preferences and only dating hot people because "the ugly ones must be terrible people anyway."

[–]rothkochapeljust be more confident bro 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

if anything attractive (but not to the point they become delusional about how the world works) people treat others better because they tend to be less bitter, more confident etc.

[–]StacksFifthAveRED DEAD REDEMPTION II 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That has more to do with the feedback loop those aesthetically challenged people have dealt with in their lives and the need to prove that they can be successful in having and maintaining relationships with those they desire in addition to the energy those people who are in relationships with the aesthetically challenged people give off.

A kiss here and there and duty sex, ‘trying to make it work’ lies but energy does not.

Just being able to qualify someone as the ugliest person one has been in a relationship with is symbolic of the energy that person was giving to the person they qualified as such.

[–]lout_zoo 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People don't work like that.
When I gained weight and was in poor shape, I didn't start finding other overweight people attractive all of a sudden.
On the other hand, I didn't blame anyone else for being single either.

[–]SupermarketFun21 143 points144 points  (176 children) | Copy Link

This false equivalence comes up constantly, and it’s ridiculous.

I disagree with a lot of stuff on TRP, but its focus is on becoming the person that high-value partners choose, which is respectable.

FDS, despite its name, contains zero strategy for pinning down a high-value man. The only strategy discussed there is strategy to avoid unworthy men (pretty much all men in their view), and that takes a clear back seat to rants about how men are shit.

[–][deleted] 77 points78 points  (70 children) | Copy Link

One good thing I've seen on FDS is if a guy treats you like shit and doesn't communicate with you, end it. Amazingly women actually need this advice 🤦.

[–]lissssa-13 31 points32 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Honestly talk to some women about relationships and you’ll see very quickly they 100% need this advice. L

[–]Redditcritic6666 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That advice applies to bother genders thou.

[–]CousinJeff 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

facts, a lot of men are willing to take the same shit. that’s like the entirety of the simp spectrum

[–]lissssa-13 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably. I speak as a person with more girlfriends than guy friends

[–]Im_Not_Honey 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If someone is raising money for breast cancer research, are you going to say "BUt wHaDDaBouT sKiN cAncEr!?" Of course you wouldn't. Focusing on a group of people in no way means "fuck everyone else". In ANY scenario.

[–]Redditcritic6666 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

if the technology that cures breast cancer can be applied to skin cancer, then yes it will be included in the discussion. In this cause the advice can be applied to both genders and not exclusive to one gender only.

Please pay attention to what's actually being discussed before replying thanks.

[–]Worried-Smile 27 points28 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

You should have a look at r/relationshipadvice. Many, many people need that advice and it's definitely not just women.

(and about 80% of the posts there would not exist if the couples actually communicated)

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You want r/datingadvice. That sub there is absolutely batshit and just thinks everyone should break up.

[–]nightwalkerbyday 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true. Everyone there gets their social education from Netflix

[–]WellGollyGeeWiz 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Check out r/datingoverthirty as well. I swear there's probably women out there that would second guess whether they should leave a guy that fucked her dog on their first date. It genuinely astounds me how much women let men get away with then have the audacity to complain about men.

[–]decoy88Actual Male Sex-Haver 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This isn’t true.

I dunno if you actually read the posts there but it’s quite varied.

[–]poopiedoodie710 -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, much more level-headed (arguably) less biased advice on that sub; I do see that some fringe RP dudes and FDS/swerfy-terfy women will throw their shitty opinions into the mix occasionally, but those people always seem to want a reaction and aren’t the majority on that sub.

[–]BluetoothMcGee 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

swerfy-terfy

I've been repeating that word for a few minutes now. I love semantic satiation.

[–]nightwalkerbyday 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why on earth are FDS and swerf/terf interchangeable here? These are completely different domains

[–]poopiedoodie710 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

FDS swings heavily against porn and sex workers, and their Twitter account has shared some transphobic stuff.

[–]The_Meep_Lord 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is because people get drunk on love

[–]lucid_intent 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, we do. Both sexes should end bad treatment/relationships as soon as possible. If you don’t then you can get used to the treatment and even addicted to the drama. Out can also hinder your chances of finding a good partner if you become embittered.

[–]DatingVX 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The problem with this statement in relation to what OP is discussing is define ''treating like shit'' and ''ignoring''. This is part of the high-standard discussion.

I've no joke, met women that decided to block/ghost me cause I didn't reply within 2 hours to a text. Or they say I'm not communicating, but they are the ones that are vague and won't directly say what they want. The bar for unworthy is overblown

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know someone who blocks if the guy doesn't reply within 20 minutes. I told her that's nuts!! What if he's working!!

Scary thing is this woman is a nice, thoughtful person otherwise but for some reason is insanely harsh on potential BFs.

[–]DatingVX 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's one of my pet peeves really lol, bugs me. I don't like to socialize every hour, or even every day. I might even have read it, but we don't have to destroy our attraction by constantly texting.

But ay, different roads for different people.

[–]cvslengthbucketlist 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not letting people treat you like shit is good advice, but it's widely available advice, especially for women in 2022. The obvious rebuttal here is that you can easily find it outside of FDS without the put-down-others-to-build-myself-up toxicity and ridiculous over-generalization that comes bundled with so many popular posts and opinions in the sub.

Why eat a shit sandwich just for the bread when you can get it from any other sandwich?

[–]Lunar_Compass 18 points19 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

A lot of women grew up conditioned (often by their mothers) with idea that they are supposed to be "the wise one" in relationships and by "wise" it means being able to endure all the crap that men are pulling. Is he cheating? Just move on, he is man, he has needs. Is he emotionally unavailable? All men are like this. Men are usually coddled by their families so they don't know what does it mean to be told from young age that you must save relationships at all costs.

[–]The_Meep_Lord 2 points3 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

Men are definitely not coddled and never were.

[–]fuschiaoctopus 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Many of them are. "Girls will be girls" isn't a thing but weirdly enough "boys will be boys" is and justifies all kinds of horrible behavior that young girls could never get away with.

[–]LateralThinker13Red Pill Man -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Girls will be girls" isn't a thing

It's not a phrase but it most certainly is a thing currently in the West. Near-zero female accountability.

[–]The_Meep_Lord -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn’t coddling. That is accepting men’s more rough nature.

Men were and are raised to “man up” which is the opposite of coddling.

[–]carcasstribunalVolcel in my mind but incel in reality 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the country, middle easterners and balkanites coddle the shit out of men.

[–]NotQuiteHapa 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LatAm too

[–]The_Meep_Lord 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

No goal post moving. You know what they were really saying.

[–]carcasstribunalVolcel in my mind but incel in reality -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Saying what? They said men arent coddled while they are.My father for example doesnt know how to cook for shit, he never ironed his shirts, he doesnt even know how to operate a washing machine because he is a coddled misogynistic cunt who had women do it for him all the time. ME and the balkans have very strict gender roles imposed on men, people ridicule men who brew coffee for them because it is a woman's job.

[–]The_Meep_Lord -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That isn’t being coddled, that is having rigid gender roles and cherry picking one side.

[–]carcasstribunalVolcel in my mind but incel in reality 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The gender roles makes the women overprotective of their sons. If the sons are encouraged to never leave and always met with unconditional love doing whatever and never were expected to do the chores then they definitely are overprotected. Parents dont throw their kids out when they are 18 in the balkans or ME, they coddle their sons almost all the way until they turn 30. The only thing that is expected from them is to use violence to protect the family honor so in that regard they eventually have to man up once the neighbour or someone unjustifily assert dominance over the family.

[–]The_Meep_Lord 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing expected of them at all? Doubtful

[–]Lunar_Compass 6 points7 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Boys are raised as kings, girls are raised as servants.

Boys aren't punished for bad behaviour (boys will be boys), they aren't doing domestic chores and can stay with parents far too longer. Families also invest more in their education and career

If girls had it easy in many countries such as China and India female fetuses weren't be yeeted because parents hated them in advance.

[–]decoy88Actual Male Sex-Haver 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men aren’t socially accepted to stay with parents longer lol WTF that’s blatantly untrue.

[–]Sigma1979I love feminism AND trp 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Boys are raised as kings, girls are raised as servants.

I've seen some crazy shit posted on PPD, but this takes the cake.

[–]learn2earn89 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this applies to non-Anglo cultures. My family is Hispanic and it’s been like that for generations..

[–]The_Meep_Lord 8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit.

Even patriarchies that isn’t true. Men are “manned up” via purposeful hardship.

[–]NerdMom2021 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you have an example for this? Not being confrontational.

[–]The_Meep_Lord -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by example?

The very fact that pussy is an insult aimed at men shows this. Men need to become useful and are not accepted until they are.

Men are not allowed to feel, to cry and be weak. We are not given support like women are, a man who tries to take on a female gender role is seen as a deadbeat…a failure. We are mocked for suffering and losing even when it is due to unfortunate circumstances. We have to do the more difficult and physically rough chores. We must dance like monkeys or provide some raw physical value and be accepted.

Not even men born into privilege can be who they are. It is all about hiding who we are to be the best tools possible.

While a woman will always be accepted and protected even when she fails at everything.

Most cultures have mandatory military service for men, painful coming of age ceremonies designed to make a man out of a boy (look up the bullet ant one, where boys have to wear gloves of ants who bites sting like bullets), are forced to fit cookie cutter personality molds for the sake of women’s standards.

Most men never even truly learn who they are, they have to become what others want instead.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do not troll.

[–]LateralThinker13Red Pill Man 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Boys are raised as kings, girls are raised as servants.

Not in the West.

Boys aren't punished for bad behaviour (boys will be boys), they aren't doing domestic chores and can stay with parents far too longer. Families also invest more in their education and career

Yeah, okay, tell me about all the daughters who mow the lawn. Then tell me about what percentage of boys are thrown out at 18 vs girls. Then tell me about how many female-only scholarships exist vs. male-only. Go ahead, I'll wait.

If girls had it easy in many countries such as China and India female fetuses weren't be yeeted because parents hated them in advance.

Parents don't hate girls in China, they just want boys to carry on their line and care for them in retirement, and with the old one-child policy having a girl was setting yourself up for late-life suffering. Girls join the husband's family, not support their own parents. Girls work out as a net loss. The whole concept of "You gain a son, or you lose a daughter", depending upon the gender of your child.

[–]hornyjailer1 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What reality is this? I will like to join in

[–]cautionTomorrow555 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If girls had it easy in many countries such as China and India female fetuses weren't be yeeted because parents hated them in advance.

The reason for this is because it is the men who provide for their parents in old age in those countries and also provide more overall because society puts more pressure on them to succeed.

[–]fuschiaoctopus 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's better than being literally killed and abandoned by your families lol, and also a product of men since women certainly did not decide to be property and have no rights in those cultures. So blame men for all of that cause they chose it.

[–]cautionTomorrow555 -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you know what men in these cultures went through historically and in the past? Women preferred their gender role over mens it was and is so bad. Sure you have a lesser status, but you also have less worries stress and problems and just an overall way easier life. Raising kids is easier than working back breaking jobs 90 hours a week and having to provide for everyone. Cooking breakfast is easier than having to financially provide for your wife, kids, and elderly parents.

[–]fuschiaoctopus 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, many women didn't prefer it, that's literally why women had to come together in first world countries and advocate for change for centuries while men tried to keep it the way they, again, fully chose to set up their societies? Men chose that. Women did not choose to be property and they didn't get to make the laws or decide their role in society, men chose all that so if they didn't like it why did they pick it and fight against women to enforce it for thousands of years? The countries still doing this to this day have movements of miserable women trying to change it while the men who decided it fight tooth and nail to prevent it. If they hated it so much, why would they do that? Minimizing everything women do and had to do to simply "making breakfast" (which was an all day affair back in the day, just so you know, we didn't have microwaves and instant pots..) shows how little you know actually goes into running a home and taking care of all child rearing, raising, and domestic duties. Have you ever done any of it or does your mom/gf do it all? Cause I think you would know how much work actually goes into cooking, cleaning, planning everything and raising children if you were to do any of it yourself.

Also men didn't typically work 90 hours a week. Ironically many historians have shown we work more hours than ever and many historic cultures had way more freetime than today, so idk where you're getting that from.

[–]throwthatmfawaydumbass 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Boys are also told to man up, expected to suppress emotions, expected to be the head of fatherless households, etc.

[–]Im_Not_Honey 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep they are. And you can also blame men for that one. Men decided that women are inferior, and need to be protected by men, etc. Ironically, all of the grievances that men have (like the examples you listed) are BECAUSE of the patriarchy.

[–]throwthatmfawaydumbass 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And what exactly do I benefit from placing blame on my gender for something that’s reinforced by BOTH genders?

I just realized the reason women make this argument is because any revelation to their own privilege is such a hit to the victimhood they’ve been convinced of their whole lives, so they have to point fingers at men and the patriarchy as per usual to be exempt of any (ego driven) blame. What literal children do.

This “patriarchy” was created by a minority of men that feminists love to paint as the majority, and thanks to this patriarchal society, we’ve actually made it to a point where women are coddled to out-pace men and that’s still not good enough.

[–]ffandyy 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this a troll?

[–]Cobra_x30 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If girls had it easy in many countries such as China and India female fetuses weren't be yeeted because parents hated them in advance

This is because these countries don't have any form of social security! So, instead your retirement plan is your son... and they push these boys like mad to succeed. The pressure is so strong a lot of them jump off buildings because they can't handle it. Women on the other hand are expected to be like household servants for the in-laws. It sucks balls, but you don't see them killing themselves over it... instead they just try to marry foreigners when possible.

[–]Robotemist 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm starting to think most of y'all have no outside experience other than what's read on Twitter.

Boys are raised as kings, girls are raised as servants.

Boys are raised as kings, true. Which means men have to serve a purpose and aim to rule the world.

Women are raised as princesses. Which means you serve no purpose and are praised for simply existing.

[–]SupermarketFun21 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chinese parents abort baby girls, therefore western parents coddle boys… lmao can’t argue with airtight logic like that.

[–]LouisdeRouvroy -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If girls had it easy in many countries such as China and India female fetuses weren't be yeeted because parents hated them in advance.

Except sex imbalance at birth in China depends on the rank of the child. The overall imbalance is due to ever increasing imbalance by birth order.

This shows that contrary to what feminists say, it's not that they dislike girls in China, since sex ratio for first born isn't particularly skewed when considering the one child policy that was enforced for long. The sex ratio for second and even more third is the issue that affects the overall ratio.

This means that people in China are ok with girls as long as there's also a boy. So the reason is not as why they don't want girls, but why they absolutely want at least one boy. And that has to do with the men's duties.

Of course, feminists cannot consider that something doesn't revolve around them, hence the narrative.

[–]Divine_ChariotFascism Chadism -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are no authority on India. You’re using British fabricated atrocity literature to engage in slander. These are the people who blame India for pollution, but had no qualms polluting the entire world and engage in colonialism just to increase their GDP.

[–]caption291 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are usually coddled by their families

U sure about that?

[–]masochisticanalwhore 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, by and large.

[–]Paranoidexboyfriend -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One good thing I've seen on FDS is if a guy treats you like shit and doesn't communicate with you, end it.

People put up with shitty behavior because usually its a hot person (relative to themselves) treating them like shit. And if they got rid of the person treating them bad, their next relationship/hookup would be with someone uglier.

They compromise on how well they're treated in order to get someone hotter than they usually could.

[–]Cobra_x30 -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

. Amazingly women actually need this advice 🤦.

Isn't this a huge indicator that women tend to be attracted to douchebags?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Perhaps but the douchebags are often VERY good at acting super nice and loving at the beginning. Once they have you hooked they start acting like jerks and convincing you it's your fault and if you only XYZ he'll be nice again.

[–]Cobra_x30 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps but the douchebags are often VERY good at acting super nice and loving at the beginning.

No, the ladies just convince themselves of this afterwards. I remember this boy in high school who used to bully my friends. I wasn't shocked to hear later that he beat his GF. She of course told me once that he started out sweet and charming. I suppose picking on weaker and younger kids qualifies as "nice" in her book.

[–]LateralThinker13Red Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn't even gendered advice, if you think about it.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 13 points14 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Well put.

I don't think that was the initial intention of FDS.

It looks like "femcels" have driven down the quality of the posts there and made it low effort rants. Not unlike Incels and TRP spaces.

But you make a great point that the only strategy focused on at FDS is avoiding "LVM" which now looks like a moving goal post depending on any posters personal history.

I do still think that a space like FDS should exist for women, and I hope there is one that is not quite as cynical, and I just haven't found it (which makes sense, IM A GUY).

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 4 points5 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

a moving goal post

It's not a moving goalpost; it's protection from abuse. LVMs are abusers and energy vampires.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 10 points11 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

That's fair.

I do not want anyone to get abused or stuck with an energy vampire/loser. Anything to prevent that is a good thing.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I have seen too many friends date truly awful people and it is very painful to watch the whole thing play out. I can say anecdotally it's usually my girl friends that date bad guys but it could go either way.

quick story: I have 2 very good friends. I've been friends with the guy since for 20 years, and the girl for 3.

They started dating.

He is an emotional abuser.

We advised her not date him and "she could do wayyy better than him" (We being mostly me and her very good girl friend)

A year and a lot of emotional abuse later, they finally broke up (Good for her).

Not sure what I want to say with that story.

You can tell me I shouldn't be friends with a guy like him and you're probably right, hes more of a frenemy now.

Funnily enough everyone in our group that are apologists for him are the girls, including the one he dated.

I do feel bad that he really has some real emotional trauma from his parents. But that's not an excuse to be an asshole.

Thank you to anyone who read this!

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

everyone in our group that are apologists for him are the girls

Because they're most likely afraid of him, or at least he's gotten himself to live rent free in their heads, as they continue to ask the question "Why does he do that?" (a question so enduring that there's an excellent book on it), and as he continues shifting between his multiple facades -- the charmer, the victim, the bully, the misogynist -- they live in fear of what he might do next, or they just buy into his bad childhood sob story.

It's common for abusers to create sob stories -- many of which are false -- to make themselves look like victims. Most people who grew up in abusive homes know what it's like to be abused, so they generally don't go on to abuse others. The sob story helps him avoid accountability for his actions and conceals his true nature, which helps him continue to abuse.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Why does he do that?"

This. 100% - What's the book?

I've been pointing out to our group that he has like this internal clock, and if we're hanging out and he hasn't been the center of attention for as little as an hour, he'll find something to become the victim about.

So about a half a year in to their relationship I was warning the girl about certain things he was doing. She responded with "You just dont know him like I do".... Except I've known him since we were 8 and she's known him for 3 years. Anyway I think that's just a bummer to think about. I definitely think he was "living rent free in her head" at that point.

FWIW this guy is really really hot too, like at least 9/10. I think that's important to mention.

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The book is, funny enough, Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That?". Read this book and tell all your friends -- especially the women -- to read it as well. It will help you all see him for who he really is.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks!

I've seen that book get mentioned around here. I'll let you know if/when I read it just bcuz

[–]Deadlocked02homo 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they're most likely afraid of him,

There’s zero accountability for women in the minds of guys like you. A woman can’t possibly defend a shitty guy because she’s shitty herself, but because she’s afraid. Lol

[–]WellGollyGeeWiz 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Girls choosing abusive men is a story as old as time. I pointed out to a friend that her boyfriend, crying and guilting her into staying with him when she tried to leave, was emotionally abusive and coercive, which she kind of acknowledged then got pregnant by him a month later 👌🏿 women really are their own worst enemy.

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Yes it is, and that's why FDS resonates with so many women: because they have been abused by scrotes at one time or another in their lives, and FDS helps stop that. I wouldn't say the only strategy of FDS is avoiding abuse, or that most of FDS focuses on avoiding abuse, but quite a bit of it is focused on that.

[–]Deadlocked02homo 8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What’s do you gain by calling your gender “scrotes”? Tell me about having zero self respect.

FDS is avoiding abuse

Nah, they’re abusers themselves.

[–]Garth1234567890 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think u/TheFluffShoes is a woman. Or gay. There isnt really a reason to hate yourself that much so

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I did have a gay phase, and I did think I was a woman for a time, so I'll give you that. But all those things were induced by my porn addiction, and that isn't me. I'm not gay or a woman.

What I say about men is not self-hate; it's part of my recovery from my porn addiction. My addiction made me deeply misogynistic for a time, and when I began to take porn addiction recovery seriously, I also realized that it's a tool used by men to oppress women and a facet of misogyny. So I saw it necessary to let go of my misogyny as well in order to recover from porn, and to support feminist movements to end misogyny to make amends with those whom I had harmed per Step 9 of Sex Addicts Anonymous.

When I first saw what feminists say, I was shocked and angered too. I won't lie. But, when you listen to them with an open mind, you realize that lots of what they say is based on truth and is out of sincere concern for humanity.

I participate here to carry the message of my realization about misogyny and patriarchy per Step 12 of Sex Addicts Anonymous, and I sincerely hope other men also take steps to let go of misogyny in their lives.

[–]Garth1234567890 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You went full coomer and recovered and became a feminist to atone?

[–]ErikTheRed907 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey! No! Women can’t be abusers! You are entirely out of line!

-=whispers=- You speak the language of the Gods

[–]Da_Famous_Anus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea. FDS is just avoiding abuse... while also using offensive slurs to describe men. XD.

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds good to me

[–]Robotemist 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What are low value women?

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Nonexistent! Every woman is valuable and a victim of abuse by males -- so we cannot say they are "low value".

We can divide males, however, into a hierarchy of "high value" and "low value". Some take it a step further and add the division "no value", but "low value" and "no value" seem indistinguishable to me.

An LVM is an abuser. Abuse doesn't have to be physical violence; abuse is any action that makes the victim feel belittled, devalued, or dehumanized. By this definition, most men are abusers -- hence why so many are low-value.

An HVM will do everything possible to ensure that women feel respected and valued to avoid being an abusive male.

[–]Robotemist 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

abuse is any action that makes the victim feel belittled, devalued, or dehumanized.

Hmmm. Kinda like calling someone low value. So FDS women are abusers and therefore low value.

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But they aren't belittling or dehumanizing men -- they're exposing abusive tactics.

Women can never hate men as much as men hate women. Thus, women cannot be abusive like men are.

[–]Robotemist 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You just called them low value men. That's a belittle. You're showing your lack of incompetence, which justifies a lot of the hate you receive.

Regardless men can never hate women as much as women hate men. Women actually treat men hate as a sport. It's considered "punching up", sexism against men is pretty much accepted and women fully engage. For example, women can publicly joke about cutting men's dick off and it's laughed at. How would you feel about a man joking about slicing your breasts off?

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a belittle.

A belittle is an unnecessary insult; calling them LVMs is speaking the truth. Abusers have little value in relationships.

men can never hate women as much as women hate men.

Then how come men can go in public without being afraid of women leering, raping, and attacking them? Clearly men wouldn't do these things if they didn't hate women.

Women actually treat men hate as a sport.

No woman would speak out against men if there wasn't a practical reason.

For example, women can publicly joke about cutting men's dick off and it's laughed at.

When men use their penises as weapons, can't we at least consider disarming them? We wouldn't have to consider this if men were better about matters of sexuality.

How would you feel about a man joking about slicing your breasts off?

I'm male -- read my flair.

[–]Robotemist 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A belittle is an unnecessary insult; calling them LVMs is speaking the truth. Abusers have little value in relationships.

That's literally something an abuser would say. "You're a cunt. I'm not belittling you, it's the truth." "I didn't want to beat you, you made me."

Then how come men can go in public without being afraid of women leering, raping, and attacking them?

Why would you? Do men go out in public with fear for being killed? Men are killed by a very large margin more than women.

When men use their penises as weapons, can't we at least consider disarming them?

That's stupid.

I'm male -- read my flair.

If so you're a female identified male. Which makes you a woman with a dick.

[–]Redditcritic6666 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

reddit has policies against incel subs thou? so why is a sub full of female incels not getting banned like the rest of them?

[–]Imreadytocommentnow 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What's your point?

You want them to get rid of FDS? Or are you implying that they must not be femcels?

[–]figuringMylifewet ass 😽 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

FDS has self improvement stuff too. just because lots of people love TRP doesn’t mean y’all need to spread misinformation about FDS to try to pretend they’re not the same.

[–]Remarkable_Sort_1706 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Does it? There was a huge post by a mod a while ago that had to crack down about people constantly whining in the sub and not actively trying to employ dating strategies. A lot of the commenters were very pissed lol, complaining about them not being able to vent about hating men and the such.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 5 points6 points  (69 children) | Copy Link

Both sides discuss increasing your SMV. Both sides shit talk low-value opposite gender. Both sides think they're better than the other.

[–]SupermarketFun21 22 points23 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I’ve never seen a peep on FDS about increasing their SMV. I have no idea what sub you’re reading.

They do both shit talk the opposite gender, but on RP that’s a side dish, whereas on FDS it’s the main course.

[–]AnnoKano 1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

There is literally an entire FDS subreddit dedicated to women improving themselves. If you had been born with a vagina, you would be on FDS.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What’s the subreddit?

[–]AnnoKano 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I'm not seeing much actual leveling up strategies there... The couch to 5k thread is, but the other ones are really just women talking about how they feel now that they've "leveled up" and complaining about . Don't really see the tips outside of career advice (which is great for their lives but not really important to their dating lives).

If you pitched it as a life improvement sub I'd agree, but I really don't see any dating advice here or advice on how to do better dating (other than the 5k thread). Big ups to that though, I love to see people improving their careers. Just don't see how it'll attract the men they claim to want.

[–]AnnoKano 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It is a self-improvement subreddit; FDS is the subreddit which is about dating.

I’m trying to demonstrate that despite what TRP would have you believe, ie. that TRP is different because it is also about self improvement, that there is in fact a self-improvement aspect to FDS, it’s just on a separate subreddit. Because they recognize there is (and should be) a distinction between the two.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

FLS isn't related to dating at all it seems though and most of what they're talking about improving will have no benefits on their dating life. I love it for them, just not seeing the connection with FDS at all.

[–]AnnoKano 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s literally an offshoot of FDS.

And like TRP, the FDS ideology is supposed to be a complete package, it’s not just dating advice. So the fact that you don’t think most of the advice they give there will help them with dating isn’t really here nor there.

Not to mention that these things are largely a matter of opinion anyway.

[–]SupermarketFun21 7 points8 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I have nothing but respect for what’s discussed on FLS, but I think it’s telling that FDS is more active by an order of magnitude. The vast majority of FDSers have no interest in improving themselves.

[–]kblkbl165Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you also think it’s telling that most TRP boards have infinitely more topics shit talking women or sharing manipulative dating strategies rather than all the self improvement you guys preach TRP is all about?

And that’s obvious. Both groups are filled with frustrated people, it’s a given that most of what’s being said in both is shitty tactics or hatred seeping through.

[–]SupermarketFun21 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, I think it’s untrue, and that you’re using a ridiculously wide definition of ‘manipulative.’

[–]AnnoKano 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think you can make an assumption like that based on the activity of those two subreddits. Even if I was into TRP and wanted to learn about weightlifting for example, I would go to the weightlifting subreddit, not the Red Pill.

Most people also don’t need self-improvement advice either. Most of it is just navel gazing anyway, if you enjoy your life and have hobbies you enjoy you’re already set.

[–]SupermarketFun21 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If you struggle to attract the people you want to attract, then by definition, you need self-improvement.

[–]AnnoKano 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But from my experience most of the posts on FDS are not about trying to attract someone, but asking whether or not X is an example of shitty behaviour or a red flag.

[–]SupermarketFun21 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Eh, it seems like the only men they ever get involved with are lazy deadbeats. They diagnose that as nearly all men being lazy deadbeats, but that’s absolute horse shit. Desirable women never express that sentiment, because they attract successful men. FDSers’ main problem is only being able to attract the bottom of the barrel.

[–]fuschiaoctopus 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Complete disagree. You really believe attractive women don't attract abusers or deadbeats or shit men? That's ridiculous. They attract all men and every type of man, but many women have past trauma, toxic dating habits and/or lack of experience that leads them to be susceptible to the many abusers who pursue beautiful women. That's why subs like fds exist, being born beautiful doesn't mean you automatically only attract amazing men or automatically have the perfect radar for identifying shitty partners with no underlying factors making you susceptible to abuse whatsoever. And nobody on fds says all men are low value or that all men are anything, lol most of them are literally in relationships already. Many abusers and LVM do not appear initially as undesirable men anyway, many are what RP would call Chadzilla and appear as totally great, charming, upstanding members of society until you actually get involved with them in private. Fds is discussing the warning signs to see through that manipulation.

[–]CentralAdmin 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you had been born with a vagina, you would be on FDS.

For a dating strategy sub you would think there would be more success stories depicting how the strategy worked. The fact that women even need the advice to avoid assholes tells us that RP is right about women being unable to make healthy, mature choices about the men they desire.

Women swear high and low they would never bother with RP men yet there is a whole sub telling them not to avoid men who won't commit or who just use them for sex, and everyone has a story about how they were taken advantage of. Okay, fair, but is simply rejecting these men enough?

So where are the success stories? I.e. they are now in love with a good man, what they do for him, what he does for her, how great her life is and that she will be married soon etc.

Instead, they pat each other on the back for avoiding a coffee date and staying chronically single. So many of the posters there are also in mental health subs and the datingoverthirty sub. Clearly they are not as awesome as they think they are but are content to shit on the very gender they desire commitment and love from.

Self improvement is something that can be included in a dating strategy. It improves your SMV so you access better quality partners. Saying it's on another sub says your sub isn't effective at clearly communicating goals for users. Instead, the dating strategy has become about gaining status through trash talk about men, which is really just sexism due to sour grapes.

FDS users are crabs in a bucket and do not want to see each other actually succeed.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]fuschiaoctopus 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what sub you're reading, every time I've ever gone to redpill or mgtow literally every post was about women and how awful those evil whores are. Absolutely nothing about self improvement or actually going their own way, 100% about complaining and being upset.

[–][deleted]  (28 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Slyfer_Seven 6 points7 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Fitness is not as high a qualifier for women being hot. It's basically don't be fat, if you can manage it, but as long as you have a feminine silhouette, you'll be alright...

Plus, TRP goes too hard in the paint on being ripped

The FDS handbook has several strategies to keep a man interested and chasing, but much like their counterparts, the main sub is just full of whining, self congratulation, and a self sabotaging hatred of the people they claim to want...

[–]lout_zoo 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Maybe not for you. But for plenty of people it is.

I find fitness more attractive than being born with a pretty face.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

By and large and it's even touted here heavily, a woman only needs to be "not fat". That is the standard, if you disagree and believe fitness is highest on the list for women, understand, you're the outlier...

[–]DreJ-X -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I find fitness more attractive than being born with a pretty face.

If only more people think this way...

[–]lout_zoo 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To me, things people are born with or buy are far less attractive than the things they earn or create for themselves.
You can't buy fitness, good taste, good values, manners, compassion, or talent.

[–]DreJ-X 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Preach to that man

[–]roaming_bartender 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

fitness isn't important just be skinny

A hambone doesnt slim down to just bone without exercising (aka becoming somewhat fit).

the fds handbook has several strategies to keep a man interested

But none in gaining interest in the first place, otherwise "ditch the extra 130lbs of hamburgers and pizza" would be the most touted advice.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A hambone doesnt slim down to just bone without exercising (aka becoming somewhat fit).

Wrong you slim down in the kitchen.

They're wrong about being skinny being the only requirement but CICO is how you lose fat.

[–]roaming_bartender -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

autistic arguing for the gotcha lines

Would you say the majority of fds is skinny or obese? Yeah, id say theyre obese and not doing CICO or exercise.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

They claim to already get plenty of interest though, it's just they can't pick the right guy

[–]roaming_bartender 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

its not the right guy

Yeah, turns out the fit and rich men they want prefer someone without a gravitational pull. Not a real shocker

[–]Slyfer_Seven 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're really stuck on this assumption that all these FDS chicks are fatties...

[–]roaming_bartender 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

you're really stuck on this assumption

I asked you to bet if you thought that was a correct assumption yet you didnt answer, wonder why that could be...

[–]Slyfer_Seven 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You didn't ask me that.

[–]juliana_san 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

a self sabotaging hatred of the people they claim to want...

That's the thing though, we don't want low-value men

[–]Slyfer_Seven 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I've seen concessions from members that most men are low value and that high value men can become low value very quickly.

This results in an "he hasn't done this yet, but..." outlook on even the highest of value men. You're attributing negatives, seeped in disdain and hate, to all men based on potential.

I'm going to hate you until you can prove I should love you doesn't work, hence the self sabotage...

[–]juliana_san 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can understand that, I do think it can sometimes get extreme but I also don't think FDS deserves the level of vitriol it gets.

It's really high-stakes for women if we are NOT diligent. I know it can feel hard to understand why we are so extreme but, but ...

I think the best way I can put it is the worst-case scenario for us if we are not careful is far more dangerous and happens far more often than the worst-case scenario for men.

This doesn't mean that good men can't end up bamboozled, hurt, or even destroyed in other ways by bad women. But the risk is much lower, less common, and easier to bounce back from, generally. Not always, but generally.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get the high-stakes outlook and I agree completely with that aspect of it. I just don't think many on there realize that spending so much time hating the bad men, is going to poison their views enough to almost guarantee they'll never find a good one.

Oh well, it's fun to watch the progression at least...

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Like the 30% overlap between Datingoverthirty and FDS?

[–]AnnoKano 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As if TRP isn’t full of bitter divorcees as well. Come on dude.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Didn't say it wasn't.

[–]AnnoKano 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

OK, if you already knew that both TRP and FDS are like that, why did you point it out in the first place?

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because its an overlap of females and not males.

It is proving 'the walls' existence. It brings up 'Where are all the good men' meme.

[–]roaming_bartender 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And the fitness and steroid overlap that is missing from fds but present in trp...

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe I am misunderstanding...

but who in TRP is advocating for steroid use? You def should not be using those without doctors orders and lots of oversight.

[–]roaming_bartender -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

who advocated for steroid use

It goes to show one group is that serious about putting in effort while the other just boils down to whining on the internet.

[–]Stevefr0mYellowstone 6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Both sides discuss increasing your SMV.

I hadn't realized that FDS covered topics such as losing weight, staying thin if you're already that, making yourself look more feminine, etc... Everything I've seen is about demanding extremely high standards and considering your value inherent with no need for improvement. Happy to be wrong if I am.

[–]juliana_san 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Everything I've seen is about demanding extremely high standards and considering your value inherent with no need for improvement. Happy to be wrong if I am.

I got a few thoughts on this.

First, A lot of times this discussion happens more in the comments than in the titles / OP. I think most critics of FDS don't bother going that deep (understandably). Additionally many times the poster goes into more info in their OP.

Part of FDS is recognizing that when you are a high-value woman you will still attract scrubs who are trying to snag or "defeat" a woman who has leveled herself up. Many of the women have put in the work but are still not seeing results.

Because of this majority of popular FDS posts have transformed more into showing examples of low-value behavior - a lot of warnings on how relationships or situations can turn out if we are not diligent. So right now the trend in strategy really is more on identifying and avoiding shitty men.

Like other posters have said, the Female Level Up Strategy sub focuses more on self-improvement. By proxy of being a higher value woman yourself, the hope is to be worthy of a high-value man, and vice versa. But that doesn't suddenly stop shitty men from trying to trick you.

[–]Stevefr0mYellowstone 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If that's the nature of the discussions there then I would agree that it is of value. Just like a lot of the red pill is teaching men red flags about women, it makes sense that for a women there should be analysis of red flag about men. Of course its not just identifying red flags; to justify the expectations held there the woman has to recognize what is high value in the eyes of men if ultimately the goal is to get into a relationship with a high value man.

[–]WYenginerdWY 10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

making yourself look more feminine, etc..

Making yourself more feminine is not a good strategy for women, it's not self-serving, it's male serving only. The red pill does not teach any man to adopt any characteristics that are female serving only. They tell him to make more money, become more powerful, become more charismatic, and become more fit. These are all things that men would aspire to do on their own, and directly benefit them. Being more submissive and feminine is not of any direct benefit to women outside of the dating world. In fact, it makes them doormats and easier to take advantage of.

[–]CentralAdmin 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

it's male serving only.

Then what's the point of trying to attract a partner if you won't appeal to what they want?!

Why not just go to a feminist sub and bitch about men there and avoid dating? If you want a husband you have to be wife material and that means learning how to be the kind of woman a good man will want.

What kind of entitlement is this where you don't want to do or be what men want but expect them to do and be what you want?

They tell him to make more money, become more powerful, become more charismatic, and become more fit. These are all things that men would aspire to do on their own, and directly benefit them.

Because women like ambitious men who make money.

Men like youth, beauty, femininity...men are not women and women are not men!

[–]WYenginerdWY 6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Women, by and large, don't want to be submissive little feminine doormats anymore. If men want to continue partnering up with us, I guess their tastes are just going to have to get pulled forward from the 1950s. Boohoo. So sad.

We want cool lives doing cool things. That's hard to do wearing an A line dress and a corset with a duster in one hand while smiling constantly.

Edit - if trp was about making men good husband material, it would place a high emphasis on developing collaborative personality traits like empathy and kindness. Those are nowhere to be seen. So the expectation for women to make themselves into good wife material is not equivalent to the current trp material.

[–]SwinginPastMyKnees_Red Pills Make Ur PP Bigger 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

We want cool lives doing cool things.

And plenty of men like playing video games all day in their mom's basement. Does that increase the likelihood of women being attracted to said man?

If you eventually want to meet a quality partner and share cool things/activities together, the both of you have to meet in the middle. He has to meet at least some of your standards and you have to meet at least some of his. You can't just live selfishly, become the kind of woman that men do not want, and expect a man with half a brain to stick around.

[–]WYenginerdWY 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, are you implying that playing video games is as unenjoyable for men as being feminine is for women?

You can't just live selfishly

TIL I learned that a woman not forcing herself to be feminine against her will is being selfish.

You are aware that a woman being unfeminine is still capable of being a good adult partner? She's just.....being. Simply existing as an unfeminine woman doesn't imply anything about how she spends her time. Men who live in their man cave playing video games 16 hours a day generally are not functional adult partners.

This was a weird fucking comparison.

[–]SwinginPastMyKnees_Red Pills Make Ur PP Bigger 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, are you implying that playing video games is as unenjoyable for men as being feminine is for women?

If it's unenjoyable for you, then that's unfortunate. I'd counter that it's not always enjoyable for me or other men to make upwards of six figures. However, we do these things with consideration of what a potential partner might desire in a romantic partner.

TIL I learned that a woman not forcing herself to be feminine against her will is being selfish.

Please don't twist my words. That is not what I said. Let's debate in good faith.

If a man is choosing to live his own life how he wants (well within his right), but how he lives it makes him unattractive to the opposite sex, then he might need to make some changes if he wants to actually attract a partner.

You are aware that a woman being unfeminine is still capable of being a good adult partner? She's just.....being. Simply existing as an unfeminine woman doesn't imply anything about how she spends her time.

I'm aware of that. Never said anything about how she spends her time, but in general an unfeminine woman will have a more difficult time attracting heterosexual men.

[–]WYenginerdWY 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If the feminine archetype preferred by tradcon/red pill men was preferable and enjoyable for women, we'd still be living like it was 1855. But it wasn't. You guys had to refuse to employ us in good jobs, refuse to let us have credit or bank accounts, and basically do the "western" version of how majority Islamic countries control the rights and movements of women.

You all had to basically all but shackle us to get us to live like that.

Clearly, we didn't like it. As soon as the hippies came around, we ditched dresses as the predominant female mode of dress and have enjoyed pants ever since. When colleges opened up to us, we went and now we outnumber you. When we were able to get STEM degrees and pursue white collar degrees, we by and large did that instead of being SAHWs.

You see, you're not getting it.

Videos games are fun. Being feminine is not.

Earning lots of money is empowering. Being feminine is not.

Being fit and healthy is self actualizing and gratifying. Being feminine is not.

Learning game boosts your self confidence and gives you the ability to influence people. Being feminine does not.

Trad con/red pill men keep howling that we need to learn to be feminine if we want to attract men and that we should do it because it makes us more attractive to them, like earning money and being successful does for them.

It IS hard to work hard enough to earn six figures. But you're missing the fundamental issue that those things red pill promotes are good for men. They may be uncomfortable, but they make you stronger, they make you richer, they give you SOMETHING. You grow as a human.

To be feminine the way red pillers want is to stagnate. It's to be small. It's to be unassuming and weak and nonthreatening. It's smiling and dusting and cooking and being pretty and agreeable at all costs.

Basically.....it's fucking boring.

Restricting us to that role is why MRP thinks we have to be confined to the shitty first mate role while they get to captain their life the way they want.

[–]juliana_san 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The #1 rule in FDS is to be a high-value woman.

I think sometimes the sub can be an echo chamber, there's a lot of info in the sidebar that guides women towards self-improvement.

I haven't been to TRP in years but I'm assuming it's similar.

[–]Da_Famous_Anus 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's also no angle of FDS ideology that encourages self-improvement of any kind. By objective standards it's a hate group.

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

FDS are more like MGTOW than TRP.

[–]ant2k15 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ehh I disagree. If you look past all the dumb post and lady chatter. They have a few good strategies for vetting and keeping men that you deem to be HV accountable.

[–]slavicslothe -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Redpill? I don’t think anyone wants a manipulative dickwad who negs and cheats constantly. Maybe incel communities who want to “ascend” could fall under your assessment. Fds 100% does. I still don’t respect their stupid ideas though

[–]luliloo 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

FDS and TRP were born because they feel the opposite gender has had the upper hand for too long.

They both set boundaries to try to take that power back.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Pure_Article_546 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why don’t you do us all a favor and stop trying to date anyone until you can stop rating them on a scale from 1-10? Maybe the problem isn’t your appearance, but your shitty outlook on life.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Pure_Article_546 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just trying to save you a lot of time and money. Honestly, as someone who has been very attractive, with open access to just about anyone that I wanted, it’s actually a very shallow and superficial existence. It just brought a bunch of unwanted noise to my life and made it hard for me to see what was actually important

You could help yourself, and your future partner, by realizing how we all have internalized these toxic thoughts about beauty, but you have everything you need to be happy, if you’d just love a woman for who she is instead. Instead of thinking that you got stuck with all the “ugly” women, and feeling like you’re entitled to someone more attractive, you could consider them to be an untapped gold mine for women with the best personalities, the funniest, the kindest, the most successful in their careers, the best mom material, or bakes the best pies

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Pure_Article_546 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like ugly people. Almost all of my previous partners were unattractive (i.e. covered in scars, super short, incredibly hairy, much older, etc), I wasn’t sexually attracted to any of them, but we still had fantastic sex and I was really happy, because I loved them as people

But if you focus on improving your appearance, you’re only going to attract superficial women, who couldn’t love you for being ugly, and they won’t make you happy

If you think about it, haven’t you kind of turned into those bullies yourself, by judging women harshly by their appearance, and thinking it’s the most important thing about them?

[–]houstongradengineer 2 points3 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

Oh no no no. This does NOT track. If someone is too ugly for a relationship or a desirable person, they'd be single no matter what they did and no amount of strategy would change their lot in life.

But that's not what happens. Shit people treat other people like shit- even while dating/wanting them, and strategies are needed (or searched for, at least) to maintain things like dignity and contentment for potential victims.

I would argue that some basic FDS strategies- you can argue the platform all you want, that's not what I mean, please save it for someplace else- are purely protective from a woman's point of view. Literally no one wants to have a deadbeat's child, f'in TRP itself will even spit on such an idea, but they still support casual sex or even evolutionary ideas about spreading seed. Utter BS. Basically, you don't have to be hurt to see the need for female protection- you just need a bit of guidance or life observations.

[–]woke----- 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

TRP is just dudes trying to get good at emotional grooming and abuse.

[–]houstongradengineer 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean, and some closeted blackpill shit or other angry shit thrown it.

[–]hornyjailer1 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I would argue that some basic FDS strategies- you can argue the platform all you want, that's not what I mean, please save it for someplace else- are purely protective from a woman's point of view.

You can say the same for TRP but since its for men you wont give the infinite benefit of doubt you gave to FDS

[–]houstongradengineer -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Whatever

[–]hornyjailer1 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Our resident "egalitarian"

[–]houstongradengineer 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's not sexism to say that spinning plates has a very negative effect on women while honestly not even protecting men from anything. It's just not.

[–]hornyjailer1 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Like FDS doesnt give the exact same advice. Date multiple people thats what that means

[–]houstongradengineer 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You clearly haven't seem the same FDS I have seen. Date multiple people means date, like get to know them and consider a future together. FDS does NOT advocate for sleeping with multiple men at the same time. You really should know this if you're going to spout off about it. I'm not interested in correcting you over basic stuff...

[–]hornyjailer1 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You clearly haven't seem the same FDS I have seen. Date multiple people means date, like get to know them and consider a future together. FDS does NOT advocate for sleeping with multiple men at the same time. You really should know this if you're going to spout off about it. I'm not interested in correcting you over basic stuff...

Oh please, FDS advocates for just using the man to get what you want. He should bank roll your existence while you just exist. Of course you will like such trashy dating advice cause it benefits women while the men there are clowned.

Same as the benovelent sexism thread. If you benefit its fine. No surprise there. Couldnt care less about the red pill. Funniest thing is FDS has great overlap with r/Diabla but i am sure you will keep defending them.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

Nah I disagree. My cousin is a solid 4 but she won't ever get over her 7 boyfriend that she had 10 years ago. Every new guy she dates who are 4s-5s are just being played / compared to while she still tries to fuck the ex who got away.

She's not so ugly that she couldn't be in a relationship, it's that her standards are too high for her reality.

[–]houstongradengineer 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How does this have anything to even do with FDS? You can find one example of anyone who is chasing after a hot person, but that hardly represents a movement or movements...

[–]houstongradengineer 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

I mean, what makes you say she's playing these guys? What would her purpose be? Boredom or cruelty? Why date people she doesn't like?

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

Because she'd rather string someone along than be lonely? I don't know. She is the particular type of person that I picture when I think of FDS.

[–]houstongradengineer 1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

She is the particular type of person that I picture when I think of FDS.

What do YOU think of? When I think of FDS, I don't picture someone who would date out of loneliness or consistently date men she's not attracted to. I definitely don't picture someone who would pine over and tey to fuck an ex. You k ow FDS is specifically agaisnt that, right? Where do men on this sub even get their ideas about FDS?

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

The reality is that if she doesn't date a 4 or 5, she's going to be alone, but she doesn't want the 4 or 5.

The disgusting things I've heard her say about her boyfriends, just makes me not feel sorry for her. She talks about men the same way FDS does.

[–]houstongradengineer 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

She talks about men the same way FDS does.

Oh really? She tells you thay her boyfriends are pornsick or rude or lazy or manipulative? And then you decide... that it's her fault? Is that what I should be interpreting from what you say? Because for the record, when women on FDS roast men physically it's almost always because of something deeper wrong that he did.

FDS would have a solution, or 2, for keeping your cousin happy alone or helping her to only date men to whom she's attracted and with whom she's compatible.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

No she blasts him about his appearance, height, dick size, etc behind his back

[–]houstongradengineer 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yeah idk why you associate that with FDS. I.hope you know almost any time feminists online drag a guy for physical shit is when he asks for it by starting ahit himself. If men don't show decency, why should feminists to those particular men?

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

I don't really care what he did. I shouldn't know the exact size and shape of my cousin's boyfriend's dick. Your problem is that you just assume he is evil and deserves whatever hate she gives.

[–]juliana_san 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the pictures/videos I have seen of people who use FDS or TRP related tags on visual social media have shown a very diverse group, many of whom are perfectly average or even good looking. I fully disagree that it's all ugly people with high standards.

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this coming from a male or female perspective?

[–]Morrigan66 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lol I think it's also for people that have been really hurt in the past. I liked fds at first but damn they are toxic and hateful. Trp is even worse. They all just need to go date eachother on an island somewhere and let us be.

[–]emerald_engineer_08 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Born out of hurt for sure.

Like yeah if I dated the girls that trp talks about, sure I’d be bitter, but Jesus not all women are like that. Same with fds. Not all men are the losers you seem to attract.

[–]Morrigan66 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah and I've dated the guys fds talks about but but I don't want every man I meet to suffer because of that

[–]bludkrazeThanks feminism for providing free sex dolls 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Trp is even worse.

Id argue that isnt true but besides that youre mostly correct.

[–]RicoGeminiBlack AF 32 points33 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I dont go on FDS so i can't talk about that, but TRP is more than what you mentioned.

TRP teaches men to be more confident and to set up boundaries, something a lot of younger men especially lack. It also tries to teach them how to walk away and not to put women on a pedestal, because in reality she isnt a unicorn and this ain't no disney movie

Edit: fixed a typo

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But FDS also does this. I don't get why TRP and FDS get to claim "self respect" like they invented it? Why do they get to claim self respect and leveling yourself up? This is just common sense.

[–]SwinginPastMyKnees_Red Pills Make Ur PP Bigger 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No one is claiming "self-respect" and "leveling up" as if they invented it. It's more so that people are coddled growing up (e.g., "you're beautiful just the way you are) and don't realize that they need to make changes in their lives if they want the outcomes that they want.

[–]AutonateNo Pill 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We're social animals. Being in groups of likeminded people is a common way of sharing with others their experiences, what worked what didn't.

It's the modern-day equivalent of us in a cave and me yelling, "OOGA BOOGA, FLINT MAKE FIRE 🔥" and you say, "FLINT MAKE FIRE OOOO"

[–]Robotemist 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the difference. TRP tells you that society down plays your value and over values women, so increase your own SMV to compete and level set your view of women so you don't get exploited.

FDS on the other hand acknowledges and plays off societies overinflated value of women and tells below average women and take advantage in order to exploit men.

The advice about exercise and femininity is just superfluous in order to appear legitimate. FDS thinks women are entitled to more regardless of their physical state.

[–]Hegemon1984Pickup artist; leaning red pill 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Why dont they just go PUA instead of TRP? PUA teaches exactly what you described and much more.

[–]ZepperV2 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

RP is PUA but also teaches inner game or just self improvement in general. PUA is just a facade that makes you look high value when in reality the inside is a sack of shit.

[–]Hegemon1984Pickup artist; leaning red pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, we're taught inner game as well. Look up James Marshall, RSD Julian (or JulianHimself), or a plethora of other PUAs out there. What I - and dozens of other PUAs I know IRL and online - is mix game theory.

For example, my outer game is primarily based on Todd V. However, when I'm not infield, I practice mindfulness meditation or good mindsets which help me achieve my goal.

[–]RicoGeminiBlack AF 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because red pill isn’t only about gaming women. And while I personally don’t study pick up, the assumption I’m getting is that it’s mainly targeted at getting women

[–]Scoobyginger25 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are actually good core points to both strategies that I agree with. You’re going to get extremists on both sides but at the heart they are just setting boundaries and helping both genders look out for red flags and bad people of the opposite genders.

[–]Daffan 17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The majority who subscribe to RP methods (to increase chance at sex), are doing 1000 swipes on Tinder. The standards aren't high, or else it would be 50.

[–]PlainTundra 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You refer to PUA, not RP.

[–]ZepperV2 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

RP is PUA

[–]PlainTundra 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No.

[–]raptorpie747 11 points12 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

OP is on some chaotic neutral shit, especially with that edit being all muh enlightened centrist

But for real FDS is basically for women who make a life time of bad choices and TRP is for men who weren't able to get enough experience in being "men" or are constantly given the "be yourself" BS

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A true shit starter

[–]raptorpie747 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now I'm curious if there's a fire starter remix of that

[–]ZepperV2 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone gets offended at centrists

[–]houstongradengineer -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But for real FDS is basically for women who make a life time of bad choices

Bro, I married at 23 and I used some FDS style strategies without internet help from the time I was 12. No, it's not even about bad choices sometimes. You can't literally act like TRP and FDS are the same. TRP is traumatized and goes way overboard. Most FDS basics are more universal. All relationships need love. Sometimes spinning plates is actually a shit idea...

[–]raptorpie747 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So you used fds style strats since you were 12.

Thats the thing, your common sense or information that you've been using for that long is someone's mind blowing revelation or information that they had no idea about.

I believe that there was a discussion post in Fds about how the number of people who were in relationships and the results showed that those people were the minority, add the average age of fds member to the mix (25 +) and that's where the "lifetime of mistakes" (can both mean a huge amount of mistakes in a short period of time and the direct meaning) comment comes from.

Also I didn't say that Fds and Trp are the same but now that I think about it, Fds is a hell of a lot worse but that's a completely different and kinda subjective topic that is waaaay too much of a pain in the ass to get into, also what's that last comment about all relationships needing love referencing?

Small side note: I like how you mentioned plate spinning as a sort of a gotcha even though it's a commonly practiced thing among women but god forbid it gets employed by men! 😂

[–]houstongradengineer 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like how you mentioned plate spinning as a sort of a gotcha even though it's a commonly practiced thing among women but god forbid it gets employed by men! 😂

Women date several men, openly, and with the intent of NOT breaking every connection off inevitably. This is quite literally not plate spinning, and it doesn't as often include multiple sex partners in close succession.

Thats the thing, your common sense or information that you've been using for that long is someone's mind blowing revelation or information that they had no idea about.

It's not a revelation- it's a support group for explaining why some stuff in modern womanly life is messed up, as well as a strategy think tank for some small issues that young women may not think of.

there was a discussion post in Fds about how the number of people who were in relationships and the results showed that those people were the minority, add the average age of fds member to the mix (25 +) and that's where the "lifetime of mistakes" (can both mean a huge amount of mistakes in a short period of time and the direct meaning) comment comes from.

Well this is a different topic, the specific usership of a platform instead of the core values/goals. 25+ year olds aren't of average marrying, older ages will bump up the mathematical mean by a lot potentially, and being single in one's 20's isn't always a mistake at all. Although one might argue that a tangential mistake or 2 in ones 20's is a learning experience (again, part of FDS is delving into the specifics of dating strategy and not just solidifying core principles) instead of your implied wasted "lifetime," the word you used. Most women who find FDS will at least, like me, have known the core goals since 12. But communing with other women can still he healthy, as well as talking details/specifics.

what's that last comment about all relationships needing love referencing?

The principles. The core principles. Let a man who is ready to love you choose to love you the right way. Get ready to give healthy love from the bottom of your own heart. Accept gracefully any loss of not being able to find love where you looked for it. I don't see what's so toxic about that. I agree that it's too big a pain to compare here, but overall I just dont think those things are toxic.

[–]Hoopy223 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Most of the pics of redpillers or fds aren’t gross, just average people. I think its more people who have social issues, tough time relating to others for various reasons.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. They could be 5s who want 7s-8s. They won't take the 5 right in front of them.

[–]awaythrow1234588 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the 5 right In front of them actually feels like she deserves a 10.

[–]caption291 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you talking about FDS or TRP?

Because yeah, the goal of FDS is for 5s to try and land 8s. That's not a secret or anything.

TRP however is mainly about male 5s trying to land female 3s-5s

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Haha. You can call me ugly and I may be ugly but there is no way in hell my standards are too high. Also, I have no idea what TRP or FDS means.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

...then why would you think this applies to you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was joking around.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha, fair enough

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not ugly. Although, everyone who thinks I am will now probably appear outside my door when I go out.

[–]effeteintellectualCertified HVM 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

FDS is hilarious. It’s a bunch of average to low value women demanding to be treated like princesses. They don’t care about becoming better people; there’s hardly any self-improvement tips. It’s all about entitlement and treating men as disposable. They’re probably the most miserable women on the planet.

[–]sritaunicelularPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I said the same thing. It gave me the impression that they feel they deserve special treatment for... being women, and having had a "bad time dating" no honey, we all work for what we want. Sometimes we make bad investments it happens, but no one is just naturally entitled to being cared for/paid for/attended to without anything in return

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Plus they are delusional. Alas, people also claim TRP to be delusion. But it works for me. And if FDS works for some individuals, whatever.

[–]SwinginPastMyKnees_Red Pills Make Ur PP Bigger 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The difference is that TRP works for men who put in the work. Unless we're genetically gifted, men have to put in the work to attract attractive partners.

Whereas FDS works for women who don't need to put in the work (e.g., young, beautiful, feminine women). Those women already have many men (good and bad) looking to date them so it's in their best interest to do the proper vetting to weed out the bad. No "HVM" is going to put in effort trying to break down the walls put up by some average or below average-looking woman.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I think it started when it became socially unacceptable for women to act like pickmes. In popular culture the pickme attitude was deeply the norm for women until... not sure... there was a shift maybe in the 1990s?

We would all agree, regardless of pill type or no pill, it used to be easier for average and below average men to find partners or just get laid.

I suppose one could 'blame' feminism but it seems more complicated than that. Women no longer want validation from men in the way they once did. Perhaps it's internet culture. Women no longer have to suck up to men because they get so much attention and validation from social media. I've seen plenty of guys complain the phone in the woman's hand is the real cock block.

So anyway, TRP tries to circumvent this while FDS extrapolates and exploits this.

[–]DivineDaedraNo Pill 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Plus the shift in attitudes towards older single women. When there isn’t as much pressure to marry young and start the baby making it makes sense that women in particular don’t feel the need to go for “good enough” instead of taking the time to find someone they really want.

On top of that most households can no longer get by with just one income, especially with children involved. The previous system not only encouraged women to find a provider first and foremost, it also allowed more people to make the kind of money required to be that provider.

The more each person needs to put into a relationship, the more they’re going to want out of it.

That’s what makes the most sense to me at least.

[–]AloneOnTheStrange 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The lower incomes, relative to cost of living, is a huge factor. It drives people to become scared, and look for ways to elevate themselves out of it. So men are judged harshly on career and money, even by women who have the same.

On top of that our western standard of living is quite high. And even with our economic woes, it's getting higher. In the 90s it was normal for people to drive old cars, and go on holiday maybe once every couple of years. But social media has elevated "keeping up with the joneses" 1000x.

This is why places with more liberated sexual markets also tend to be poorer.

[–]majani 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The cellphone(aka the dick-in-a-box) is what killed pickme behavior

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A real take?

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women want validation from men, they just have more of it now. An out of shape, broke woman with makeup and photoshop can have tens of thousands of men following her in a year just off social media. They don't need real life average men for validation because they get it online from average men at will.

[–]AgentFillmore 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its money fuckin it up like most things. You have billion dollar industries that have a vested interest in keeping people single. Its why as soon as OLD became more standard u start to see people struggling more. Corporate greed is a lot of the causes of our great widespread social issues. The same way news companies are doubling down on controversial trash in order to pit people against one another for profit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do industries want to keep people single? Wouldn't it behoove them to keep people procreating?

[–]AgentFillmore 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If ur a dating company u make money off keeping people single and buying boosts etc. the online dating industry is now a billion dollar industry that is essentially monopolized by one company who initiate in a bunch of questionable practices that almost always fuck over the userbase in the name of profits

[–]social_mulea penny for your thots 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

While I mostly agree I'd also add that TRP appeals to men with varying degrees of attractiveness who may have been taken to the cleaners in family court. I assume there's a female counterpart to this type of man for whom FDS provides value.

[–]banjocatto 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, and to add some insight, the female counterpart would be women who've been abused or victimized by men in their lives, and therefore have a jaded perspective.

[–]MalgurathIf you're getting money you're her type 10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't want "high value partners", I want partners, point blank period. And that's what TRP facilitates. Also TRP isn't about hating women, it's more about opening your eyes to female nature and to accept reality, the guys who get mad are the guys who fight against this reality and want to stay in fairy tale land. Finally, TRP isn't one size fits all, YMMV when adopting its principals and your approach to women.

[–]Snoo_16536Mrs Drgree and GridReXX call me Daddy! 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This. Nice to see fellow level headed RP men on here.

RP men will always attract women as long as you focus on your purpose. You find out that women are actually more thirsty than men. You understand female nature therefore they become more predictable.

You have to think like women so you’ll always be a step ahead.

[–]purrp606 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don’t doubt it works, we live in a perverted society. The original red pill bloggers before it was a Reddit thing would concede as much - I remember it being called “looting in the apocalypse” by cheateau heartiste.

But I think “reasonable” RP wanna have their cake and eat it too when it comes to being a decent person and man. RP all descends from 48 Laws of Power, how to win friends and influence people and Machievelli etc - Its a rubric of manipulation, it’s categorizations fundamentally invite a deceitful approach to other people.

The “well adjusted” red piller understands (cringes at) how antisocial it is, and thinks of the red pill as information to be handled soberly and with some conscience - like you can have that “rationalmale” relationship game and inflict the anxiety on your spouse very surgically, hidden in innocuous gestures, and only in the cases where it’s for her best, and for the relationships best.

But fundamentally this approach of mapping out the topography of dominance in the room and tactically inducing anxiety to increase your perceived value - it’s not a respectful human interaction. It never can be. Among men, this is being a fucking snake, and they, especially “natural alphas”, dont think anyone’s cool for it.

So yes, I’m familiar with how clarifying the red pill can be if you’re stuck in the contradictory mess that is the current social contract between the sexes, and for those who “take” it fully it could provide results - again it’s a close descendant of verified manipulator manuals like 48 Laws, it kinda checks out. But I think by accepting it, you’re foregoing real love. I can’t condemn anyone for that, it might be the Rational choice.

But stop the cap, stop trying to sell it as socially acceptable self improvement manuals, or neutral scientific insight - it’s your edgy nihilist society, it thrives on being that, it’s named after the movie with the cool trenchcoat guys because of that. It’s never resembled “sage fatherly advice” lol - not even the misogynistic kind.

[–]sub-hunter 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You are a good writer. I can’t really argue with what you said except not all of trp- is nihilistic a large chunk realises women’s nature and how different it is from what our moms told us

[–]KillaKyleKlan 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's so pointless to be nihilistic, you got one life. I call myself a redpill person, but I realize that there is nuance in everything. You can't truly take the blanket statements made by the makers of RP seriously. But it does have a lot of good messages within the philosophy, like finding and pursuing your purpose, weighing the value of certain life decisions that are pushed upon you... Etc.

[–]purrp606 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

good messages within the philosophy, like finding and pursuing your purpose, weighing the value of certain life decisions that are pushed upon you... Etc.

literally the same liberalism that TRP poses itself against as soon as it starts talking societal scale solutions

nah, as a philosophy its just liberalism looted of all transcendent sentiment. Thats why liberals and progressives don't like it! Its the same thing they believe, individual fulfilment, without any of the fairy tales about how healthy it is for society.

yo lol late reply but i had to touch this

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP doesn't even believe in the idea of a HVW lol.

[–]caption291 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

the guys who get mad are the guys who fight against this reality and want to stay in fairy tale land.

I disagree. I think female nature is much more maleable than most RP guys think and trying to fix women at a large scale would make more sense than trying to meet ever increasing standards.

The "self improvement > fixing the root cause" guys are imo the ones living in fairy tale land.

[–]MalgurathIf you're getting money you're her type 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There is no fixing the root cause, mate, it's a lost cause. Either play the game or get out of the court.

[–]Snoo_16536Mrs Drgree and GridReXX call me Daddy! 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Facts.

[–]caption291 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The game I'm playing is called civilization and it's a team game. If you want to play solo, get your own court.

[–]sarkington 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’d say they’re more fucked in the head than the body or face

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugly in the soul.

[–]midwesternMDNo Pill 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can’t speak much for FDS since I can’t even tolerate lurking there for more than a few minutes at a time.

And may not fully represent TRP, though I would argue that some of my beliefs/behaviors align closely with basic/“core” TRP.

But I think “core” TRP provides a reasonable framework for a single man trying to navigate the current dating world. And in many ways, perhaps it is apt for men whose standards are too high for them at the time. But from what I understand, it encourages said men to improve themselves so that they can effectively fuck (or date) women who meet their standards.

I don’t see this as necessarily a bad thing though. It’s kind of like having a father figure tell you how it is in the real world of dating. Mind you, I disagree with many TRP “offshoot” philosophies and some of their core ones too. But honestly telling men what they need to do to achieve what they want is a net positive.

A lot of the dating advice for men by women is hogwash. You can have confidence, a career, charisma, clothes, etc, but if your pic isn’t good enough to warrant a right swipe, you’re dead in the water. That’s a truth that no “dating coach” will publish because it’s such a tough truth.

[–]BrofLong 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your last point is more about the difference between resume review and interview though. Things like confidence, charisma, clothes, etc. are important at the interview stage. Until then however, you have to get past the ATS (applicant tracking system), which is where most people struggle (just like in real life job applications).

So it's not that the coach advice are wrong, only that they apply at step 2 and not step 1. And step 1 usually means all sorts of bs fluff and key phrases so that the ATS will highlight your resume to begin with. In-person dating and organic interactions in the past allow most people to present a 'work sample' (an indirect step 2) which can make up for a weak resume. But OLD has made step 1 so much more salient, and consequently why the process is so FUBAR'ed. Not unlike job hunting actually - send a hundreds applications, maybe get 1-3 hits back, and most of them are scam jobs or terrible offers.

[–]midwesternMDNo Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair point. My point is that if the rate limiting step of success is a), working on b/c/d while ignoring a is a fool’s errand.

[–]iamthemovie1992Failed Fuckboy 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think they’re actually ugly, they’re mostly just plain/average looking who yeah are punching above their weight so to speak and are finding not a lot of success.

Like TRP was made to help average guys sort of fill in the gaps to do better dating wise. Some of the advice is actually good (Lift Weights, don’t put pussy on a pedestal, be less outwardly autistic, be more social), and yeah the frat dude who played sports in high school and was popular probably knows this, but an average looking guy who didn’t grow up popular maybe doesn’t know it. TRP comes in to sort of “teach” men what the dudes slaying already kind of know, or just do by instinct. However, sometimes these men stick around after learning and become misogynistic , they stay their anger phase and don’t really become “better”. And the other ones that stick around keep sort of egging this behavior on.

FDS meanwhile are mostly Janes and Beckies who found they were getting sex from the Chads they met, but kept getting “fucked over” and not getting the love and commitment they desired. Some FDS stories are kinda sad, girls basically existing for a “you up” text at 2:00am, doing “wifey” shit, acting like a gf with no actual proof you are, accepting that you are his side chick. Sure, maybe they should have picked better, maybe they knew, but FDS sort of became a space to help with this problem. FDS of course gives some tips, some of which are the female versions of TRP. Some of it is decent advice, a lot of it isn’t. And again, the ones that stick around don’t get better like TRP, they just become more bitter and angry than anything else

[–]ruboyuri 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They’re not ugly. They’re normal/average people with mental damage or dysfunction

[–]tegolicious 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah, TRP came out as a need from a generation of young men who was coming out into the “the new world” were the “old rules” of dating and relationships were not valid anymore. Pair that with many of them coming from broken families, they had no male figures to learn from. If you have a healthy community, you have continuation of raising boys into young healthy men. TRP, was the new “community” teaching men the new rules of today’s society, rules that many will not admit publicly. Ideally you graduate from TRP, you internalize the truths and become a successful man. Those stuck in it, probably what you describe.

[–]bludkrazeThanks feminism for providing free sex dolls 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ideally you graduate from TRP, you internalize the truths and become a successful man.

Exactly. You summed it up perfectly.

[–]RandomRedditGuy322Half My Posts Get Removed by the Jannies Pilled 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP was born in response to rising societal gynocentrism and double standards towards men.

FDS was born out of a misandrist hate community that disliked how men only "chase" after attractive women, and that unattractive women have to actually put in effort for their relationship like men. In other words, they believe men and women should not be equal, women should hold privileges over men, and all women should hold these privileges, not just the attractive ones. Hence, why they are misandrist.

[–]LowCredditL'table, c'est moi! 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP isn't advocating partners, let alone "high value" ones. TRP, RPW, and FDS are all different because men and women are different. TRP and RPW are similar in that they focus on self-improvement. FDS and RPW are similar in that they focus on the female side of sexual strategy.

[–]ppzhaoRed Pill Man 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you really call the average man ugly when statistically women rate 80% of men as "below average" in looks?

[–]LotBuilder 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say it’s due to ugly behavior by both genders

[–]LotBuilder 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say it’s due to ugly behavior by both genders

[–]RedditDeservesNoHero 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This post title is both true and the real red pill

[–]emerald_engineer_08 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity how old are TRP on average?

Most FDSers are between 30 and 50, mostly concentrated on the 30s and late 20s, so they’re typically past their prime or hit the wall. I think %99 of them are divorced or have like 5 ex boyfriends

Just wanted to get some numbers for comparison on TRP, I always viewed them as younger for some reason.

[–]bludkrazeThanks feminism for providing free sex dolls 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That makes sense becase men struggle with dating and relationships in their teens and 20s and women on average struggle more in their 30/40/50s

[–]Pure_Article_546 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe after the divorce they joined TRP and FDS, respectively, which is what they have in common?

[–]DeJuanBallard 14 points15 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Stop lumping the red pill into everything just to make it sound balanced with FDS, the red pill is about spreading knowledge of female nature and dynamics inside relationships with women and encouraging men to better themselves and have standards. If you don't get that, or some person claiming to be red pill says some wild shit doesn't change that that's what it is for.

[–]AnnoKano 5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

But that’s exactly what FDS does too.

They also talk about ‘male nature’ (HVM vs LVM), relationship dynamics (male dating strategies, abusive relationships, having standards). They simply have a different vocabulary to you.

How do you guys not see it, it’s like you are looking into a mirror.

[–]HazyMemory7[🍰] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nah they just advocate stuff like withholding sex or lying about past sexual history because the guys that they want don't want to date them. FDS is downright comical and will do absolutely nothing to help you if you're a woman. You don't need silly strategies to get a good guy if you're a attractive, fit, feminine ect...

[–]AnnoKano 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

As opposed to the completely fair and innocent strategies of TRP?

Face it, if you were born with a vagina you’d be on FDS too.

[–]ppzhaoRed Pill Man 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wasn't born with a vagina, so I don't know much about FDS. But does FDS tell me to "lose weight, take care of skin, and become feminine?" If so, then it's doing what it's supposed to do. Cuz TRP tells me to "Make money, Lift, travel more, get life experience, learn to be outgoing and charming".

[–]AnnoKano 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, because the advice isn’t for you- it’s for women.

[–]HazyMemory7[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think so. I'd have different biases for sure but if I was a woman i'd moreso be looking at subreddits like vindicta or strongcurves.

[–]DeJuanBallard 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But it's based off of their feelings not facts, they routinely lie to themselves , eachother and the world in order to shed accountability. It's hard in-grained in their ideology, if they ever acknowledge how their attitude creates the situation they claim to be trying to avoid, they would realize the diffenrce between FDS, and The Red Pill, is truth.

[–]AnnoKano 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

“What do you mean you don’t want to go out for coffee with me? Facts don’t care about your feelings!”

Interpersonal relations aren’t a physics problem my guy. The facts are not on your side, or the Red Pill’s side; confirmation bias is.

[–]DeJuanBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tf are you talking about, the only revenue to coffee dates, that the red pill makes is when women say a coffee date isn't good enough for them, you sound very misinformed or just purposefully oblivious

[–]AloneOnTheStrange 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

HVM and LVM isn't "male nature". It's just bitching about men they don't like, and fantasizing about men they do. There's no FDS equivilent of war brides, hypergamy, hamstering, female solipsism ect. No insights into long term relationships, and why they succeed and fail. No analyses of the problems faced by women, and how to overcome them. No insights into human psychology that they don't teach in textbooks.

[–]Vtridolla -2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I mean it does though. Look at any ideology it’s judged by the merits of its believers not it’s principals.

[–]monopsychos 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

We would have 0 acceptable ideologies if that were the case. Some ideologies are given special treatment where we hypocritically don't judge it by the believers.

[–]Vtridolla 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Give me one ideology that isn’t judged at all by the actions of its believers.

[–]monopsychos -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Literally whatever is the flavor of the month on reddit. Whatever any culture's dominant ideology is.

[–]Vtridolla -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Provide one por favor.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your comment was removed for cope.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil.

[–]PMmeareasontoliveNeither casual nor marriage 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are attracted to a wider swath of the female population, vs women who find the vast majority of men unattractive. Your view only works if you believe most men actually are unattractive and most women are attractive. (I'm replying here rather than to automod because I disagree with that presumption.)

[–]OliveJuice1122 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know that you’ve read much of either FDS or TRP. Lots of very attractive people in both. They date each other also. FDS converts are being spun by TRP and they either don’t know or don’t care because the guy is hot or masculine or wealthy (I’m going to take a chance on this one). Then they get dumped and post their resolve on FDS to not be a spinning plate again. FDS can be so toxic and suspicious, you don’t need to be TRP to not want to date many of these women. TRP is a lot about gender roles, which doesn’t care about looks. FDS is about being respected and vetting or shit testing a man’s interest and intent which also doesn’t care about looks. Some of the women in FDS were treated really horribly and FDS helped them realize they could have seen it coming. Many TRP men were also treated horribly and TRP gave them a framework to place all the pieces into to help them see how not to be a victim.

I’d recommend you read The Rational Male and some of the context behind the stories. Physical appearance matters but it’s not a huge part of the philosophy. Also should “interview” some women from FDS. They’re on this sub. Listen to their stories and why they got where they are. It isn’t about having standards too high. Many wandered into the circles of toxic narcissists and got their lives fucked up. FDS helped open their eyes.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Gonna agree with some of what you say here.

Spinning plate thing: That is modern dating. Both men and women do this. IF you are talking to more than one person at a time, you are spinning plates.

The FDS girls are seeking the guys that have implemented TRP (and are relationship minded), mostly. They just...don't see it that way. The majority of both TRP and FDS seem to even be tradcons.

They are really damn similar, and I'm tired of people trying to pretend they are not.

TRP; High N-count women are a risk for relationships FDS; Don't fuck him without him earning it

They accomplish the same goal (keeping lower N count) with different wording and for different reasons

Ladies don't downvote me bro. Or do. FDS is just as toxic a shit hole as some of the men's spaces are. The only reason it gets to exist in its current form and does not get banned is because it is centered around women, and we can't go censoring women's content. Seriously, if TRP started using 'gashes/hatchet wound' to talk about women that aren't 'high value' it would be banned in a heartbeat.

The excuse of 'well they aren't violent, its just words isn't a good excuse.

[–]OliveJuice1122 -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think they’re similar reactions to the same problems, yes. I have a friend of mine (f25) who got a BBL and boobs and it put her in a whole new category of dating. She’s dating a (M36). To him she’s a sweet, tradcon Latin girl. She’s fucked 6-10 guys while they’ve been dating. She just got mad that he’s been talking to an old girlfriend and was stalking his and her IG for any signs of communication. She FDS’s him and has since the beginning. Made him pay for everything, made him jump through hoops because “she knows her value”. He’s a 666, probably makes $200k. Handsome-ish. He’s very likely been RPing her at the same time. Both at the peak of their sexual market value. She was talking marriage to him and now feels she can’t trust him. I’m not making this up. She’s pretty clear you don’t show your slutty side to the guys with potential.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thats the entitlement side lol.

Although if they haven't had the define the relationship talk, I don't see a problem with either of them talking to others.

Canhe trust her? Shes talking marriage, but the man needs to propose lol.

[–]OliveJuice1122 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Relationship was defined. They were exclusive.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, she for the streets then.

Dunno what the convo entailed between the man and his ex, but he might be a douche canoe. Maybe not!

[–]DreJ-X 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn

[–]PuppyDontCare 6 points7 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

Why are we so sure these people are ugly though?

I've never seen a FDS post of them being ugly. Why do you assume they are?

In the TRP case I've seen many man complain that they are considered ugly, so no argument there.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 5 points6 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Why would you need a strategy if the HVM stayed with you?

[–]PuppyDontCare 8 points9 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

But being beautiful doesn't guarantee you a HVM. Look at the Tinder Swindler. They are all beautiful women and the guy is nice looking POS.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I would not say the women in Tinder Swindler were beautiful. They were average to slightly above average chicks with serious issues that would make any relationship minded man run thinking they bagged a billionaire. If anything they're the perfect example of delusional average women that only want men for the status he may give them.

Cecile is a batshit crazy serial dater with insanely high standards that needs therapy yesterday, Penilla is a stereotypical boss babe that wants a man for nothing other than status that's made of silicone, and Ayleen is great but she's average looking. Being skinny and blonde doesn't make you a model and model types are what billionaires want.

Either way real HVM aren't in circles FDS says to be in. I've never seen FDS talk about going to see a matchmaker.

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I would not say the women in Tinder Swindler were beautiful.

WTF dude your standards are SUPER HIGH, like really? They are "average"? come on. I bet you are the male version of what you think an FDS is.

I've never seen FDS talk about going to see a matchmaker.

I don't even know what this is. You hire someone to introduce you to people? Does that exist? I don't think they need to. Because as there are more men than women in dating aps the only thing they have to do is be able to filter better. Although I agree it wouldn't hurt.

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

WTF dude your standards are SUPER HIGH, like really?

Nah they're pretty average women. 4-6 range. My standards are the standards of the real world, none of those women are being approached for modeling gigs. If that's not happening you're closer to average than beautiful. IDK what women look at when they look at other women but y'all think every woman is beautiful. Like off rip if they were beautiful they wouldn't wear makeup all the time or have gotten plastic surgery, and if they did do those things they'd be super model level after having done it.

They are "average"? come on. I bet you are the male version of what you think an FDS is.

I mean... I have a GF right now and a very healthy relationship personally so I'm automatically not what I think FDS is. But you think these aren't just average women that are in shape and covered in makeup? You think any of these girls were amongst the prettiest girls at their HS?

I don't even know what this is. You hire someone to introduce you to people? Does that exist? I don't think they need to.

I went to private schools with super rich kids. Not only do they exist but they need to exist for those type of men and it's how most of them find partners if they didn't pair up in highschool/college. They're way too busy to be out here dating like regular people. And this is what I mean when I say FDS doesn't even know how to get the men they claim to want to get. Rich dudes are working 24/7, unless you meet him through a matchmaker or while he's in process (highschool/college/while he's still broke and making a way if he wasn't born into it) chances are you're a bussdown.

Like yeah there's guys on dating apps they can just filter through, but the guy they want ain't surfing for wifey on Tinder. At best you'll find a man on the path to being great on a dating app and in that case you'll have to go above and beyond to make him settle down because chances are he's having fun while he's young.

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I went to private schools with super rich kids.

Ah this explains why your standards are so high lol you are a rich kid lmao

And that explains the matchmaker thing. Here normal poor people have to do the dirty work of filtering through Tinder trash lmao

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you are a rich kid lmao

Nah. I said I went to school with the rich kids. My parents were working their asses off to cover tuition and that was with a scholarship that paid most of it off. I can remember being on welfare with both my parents living with their parents still.

Longest I've gone without food was a week straight and in college I had to work an unpaid internship, go to school, and pack trucks at midnight for UPS to be able to eat (rent was covered by my student loans but I had no other money).

No part of my upbringing is wealthy, we went from poor to lower middle class.

And that explains the matchmaker thing. Here normal poor people have to do the dirty work of filtering through Tinder trash lmao

You're completely ignoring my point here which was that y'all don't know how to attract the men you want at all lmao. FDS ain't helping no one if they can't even tell y'all matchmakers exist and are how the rich and busy men find women.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The women on the documentary are right about 6-7 range, imo. Not my type, not ugly but they also aren't "hotties".

I think your reaction makes a lot of sense because the only reason this happens is due to some women's self-evaluation being overinflated. I'm not saying that 6-7 deserve to be swindled, I'm just saying that a 9-10 woman probably has higher standards for herself and wouldn't put up with that. The swindler is an expert at picking out the exact type of woman who would succumb to this.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's anecdotal. Not every man is posing as a HVM to steal women's money. I would say less than .01% are.

[–]TheFluffShoesMale 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not every man is posing as a HVM to steal women's money.

But many do start out as being kind and charming to lure the woman in, then begin to abuse the woman bit by bit -- like boiling frogs. Going from charming to controlling to insulting to violent is a classic abuse tactic. Abusers thrive on not having their true intentions and true nature be understood, and for that reason, women can't risk giving men the benefit of the doubt.

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not anecdotal. There are plenty of beautiful LVM because being a HVM it's more than looks. Barney Stinson represents them very well. He wouldn't be a popular character if he was so anecdotal and weird. When you see a beautiful person, do you assume they are good people?

In FDS they say because they work out and take care of their looks they deserve a HVM who is beautiful AND many other things (tall, money, respectful, etc). So I'm not sure where people get the idea that they are ugly.

[–]hornyjailer1 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But being beautiful doesn't guarantee you a HVM. Look at the Tinder Swindler. They are all beautiful women and the guy is nice looking POS.

They were fucking dumb expecting a disney fairy tale

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not relevant.

My point is that the guy is good looking AND a POS.

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

They aren’t that good looking- what are you smoking

[–]PuppyDontCare -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm smoking common sense, do you want some?

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If that makes me think average girls are hot - idk. I mean having such low standards would make dating hella easy for me -

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's the whole point of FDS and TRP right? having high standards.

If you have low aesthetic standards you are probably going to be happier

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

But you think those girls are hot?

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes! and if you don't then your standards are super high

They are as hot as Simon

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My standards are high then . Thank god ima looks match because they date me. Who is Simon?

[–]nemma8832/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The world isn't divided into HVP and uggos. The vast majority of people are just sat in the middle.

But HVP have their own SMP/RMP problems, matchmakers are not unheard of amongst the wealthy etc.

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

O course, we are talking in their terms. I don't even use the "league" words in my normal life.

[–]lulumeme 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

An even higher value man maybe?

[–]LatterSeaworthiness4 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I saw a post with pics compiled of women on FDS (it was actually a post from an FDS mod warning them to stop posting pics because they were getting shared ok other subs) and I’d say out of the ten women in those pics, I’d say 2-3 were attractive, 3-4 average, 4 below average. I have no idea how that translates to the attractiveness of actual members though since those are the ones confident (or crazy lol) enough to post a pic of themselves on Reddit.

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They posted pictures? they are craaaazy lol

I assume TRP and FDS are normal people like you and me. Some are probably ugly, some are not. Maybe an ugly person finds another ugly person beautiful and they consider them as HVP. Who knows...

[–]DreJ-X 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

This only show how oblivious some women are about their own rate in looks. Perhaps they arent ugly but for sure they arent hot either. I would say most of them are below average/average skinny, ethnic, chubby/fat women that men usually hookup with and then leave.

[–]PuppyDontCare 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But are you sure that beautiful people aren't used or treated like shit as well? It's quite common seeing beautiful women talk about how men usually use them for sex. There's even the blonde dumb woman stereotype.

Being a good person isn't related to how beautiful you are.

[–]DreJ-X 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Depends of what "treated like shit" means to you. Sure, some of them may be stucked in a unhealthy relationship or never get in one to begin with and i dont think many giys only want a beautiful women to fuck her and no date her, at least not that many as happen with average/below average girls

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

by treated like shit I mean abused, ghosted, raped, not being respected, hit, treated like a dumb blonde, being cheated on. Look at Rihanna, she's one of the most beautiful humans on Earth and she had a POS as a bf. There are tons of women models celebrities who went through POS men.

I think you are idolizing being beautiful. Beautiful women maybe have more matches and chances of hooking up but emotionally they don't have any advantage over average people.

[–]DreJ-X 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well you got a point right there about not because you are beautiful means you are emotionally and/or psichollogy stable. I believe this has more to do with tge way u were rised and educated than the way you look

Btw whats a POS men? People here use a lot of acronism i got lost sometimesof because of this

[–]PuppyDontCare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Btw whats a POS men? People here use a lot of acronism i got lost sometimesof because of this

Piece Of Shit

I had the hardest time figuring out what OLD (online dating i think) was. As you can imagine Google was of no help.

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 17 points18 points  (39 children) | Copy Link

FDS exists because too many people on r/dating tell women to "just communicate" rather than dump their dumb bfs.

A recent post has a woman complaining that her bf didn't get her anything for Christmas and Valentine's - not even a homemade gift - and they tell her just talk to him. It's stupid.

FDS exists because of women getting bad advice. TRP exists to maximize male slut strategy.

[–]PuppyDontCare 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah sometimes I see posts like "My bf hurts me when we have sex and I already told him to stop but he won't listen" and I swear some comments are "go to therapy" "go to the doctor to see why sex hurts for you" LOL what?

I can understand why FDS reposts that with "🤡"

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 13 points14 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Last month orso I saw a post on r/sex where a woman was complaining about a dude putting it in her butthole during sex without warning, but she admitted that she had not yet talked about anal sex with him.

Most common response "Well...he shouldn't have done that OFFCOURSE, but you are also to blame for not being proactive and telling him that you don't like anal sex. Communicate better!".

[–]awaythrow1234588 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I refuse to believe that that was what majority of people said on that post. Especially women on reddit .

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

r/sex is positive about sex to an extreme.

Go there... Go see.

[–]dump_in_a_mugPurple Pill Woman 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That is terrible.

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think that's why we (women) get so fucking angry when there's talk about what you can do, to prevent something from happening.

We already get that type of shit A LOT, even in situations it's completely uncalled for. ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING that happens to us comes with a talk about prevention.

"You should have communicated that he wasn't allowed to put it up your asshole without warning."

Gimme a fucking break.

[–]mc0079Non-Red Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would never ask anyone anything in terms of advice from reddit. I would say a larger then healthy number of redditors do not see sunlight very often.

[–]Deadlocked02homo -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I think you’re cherry-picking. Most subs would condem that kind of behavior. For example, a woman made a post (I think it was on OffMyChest or TrueOffMyChest) today talking about how her boyfriend peed inside her during sex, even though she had previously stated that she wasn’t interested in such kinks to him. Most comments were calling that sexual assault. And that’s not even as bad as putting your cock in someone’s ass without consent in my book (or could be. Depends on who you’re asking). Most people on Reddit wouldn’t condone the behavior of the guy you mentioned.

[–]thequeenoftheslavs 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Do you think not giving someone something for Christmas or Valentine's day is an unsolvable problem that its breakup worthy?

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TWO major holidays? Who puts up with that? A doormat, that's who.

[–]caption291 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As an adult male, no. I can see why a teenager or a child would be upset tough.

[–][deleted]  (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LatterSeaworthiness4 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah unless the they’re going through some mental health stuff where they’re not even able to function normally, it’s the bare minimum if someone gives a shit about you.

Obviously if you’re agreed beforehand that you’re not getting each other gifts, that’s one thing, but otherwise…even if you have no money, a homemade card with a nice message would work. Or cooking dinner at home. I just see too many women posting stuff like “my man didn’t get me anything for Christmas or my birthday but got all of his buddies/best female friends gifts but I know he really does love me!!!”

But TBF the whole part about not getting a gift for the SO is NEVER the only problem in these relationships.

[–]Robotemist 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The only reason you think this is because the pervasive idea that men are easily replaceable. This ideology is why there are so many old, single, bitter women turning to FDS in the first place.

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Robotemist 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The same women who think so little of men she won't even pay for a meal? See how it goes both ways?

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Robotemist 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What the hell are you talking about?

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Robotemist 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Who mentioned anything about hurt feelings? Follow the discussion.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lmao ok. FDS > TRP because men evil yall

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Never said they were evil. Stop getting defensive. I said men created TRP to get laid as much as possible.

[–]AgentFillmore -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its funny because even if u succeed it becomes very unfifilling. Trp teaches u how to attract thots, then men get salty when all the women they deal with r kinda scummy

[–]Slyfer_Seven 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

FDS exists because those women think they deserve a man better than themselves, but have no idea how to accomplish such a feat. It's as simple as that...

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I listen to the podcast and I'm telling you that's why the hosts say FDS exists. And lo and behold r/dating STILL has that advice. So they aren't lying.

[–]Slyfer_Seven 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

The hosts are what 2-3 people? Look at the body of work that is the FDS handbook and the content posted on the sub and you get a more complete picture. Regardless of what they say, it's clear they want a type of guy that meets a standard that they themselves do not meet...

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, they were discussing the history of the sub. I believe them now that I've seen r/dating do this.

Sure, some of them might be ugly, but generally WHY the sub exists is due to reddit giving women bad advice.

Afaik, "Men love bitches" and "the rules" are older than FDS and are similar so it's not like it's a totally new concept

[–]Slyfer_Seven -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure that's part of it, but the advice they reject is the shit that tells them to stay. Why would they reject that unless they believe they deserve better?

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women DO deserve better than surprise anal and no gifts on Valentine's and Christmas.

Having dated down myself and knowing other women who date down, I'm sympathetic to FDS because many women DO have low standards. And every man on here tells us to lower them even more! No thanks!

Come on here and get told that only Chad gets laid... every woman knows that's a lie. Lots of women are dating ugly bums.

[–]Slyfer_Seven -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a bold assumption to make especially considering you have no idea of how they treat their partners.

We know that, at a minimum, these women have significant emotional baggage, that they may, or may not be managing in a healthy way. Considering how neurotic some of the questions they ask are, and how they describe their feelings towards men, I'm leaning more towards them having unresolved issues. At best, they're a work in progress, so I don't see why you believe they deserve anything other than what they are...

A guy with unresolved issues or, at best, who is a work in progress, is the best they should hope for until they correct their issues, but FDS believes otherwise and has strategies to try and game the system...

[–]Emergency-Regret6974 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk, you must be talking about something I haven't seen. The woman who didn't get any gifts on Valentine's or Christmas is the breadwinner, she's dating a student. That's dating down, because she's at 40k. My point is, it's not working for her. She didn't even get a homemade gift. FDS pushes women to ask for more.

I personally agree with FDS that "building a man" doesn't work and that there are many issues on a personal level gfs can't nor should be expected to help with. "Unresolved issues" shouldn't make you a bad gf or bf, and it's unlikely a partner can help with mental health or whatever you're implying.

[–]Slyfer_Seven -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're arguing the one sided specifics of a relationship neither of us know anything about, I'm not going down that rabbit hole with you, but I am willing to bet she's not a model g/f either...

The breadwinner is interesting though, because if you believe that to be true, then FDS almost solely desires a man that is dating down for them. This goes back to my point that they think they deserve men better than themselves.

And having unresolved issues, while demanding a partner who has it together, kind of does make someone a bad b/f or g/f...

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait- wait a sec. rp exists for the same reason. Men get horrible dating advise

[–]AreOut 7 points8 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

nah, TRP is also for attractive guys who think they got the unicorn and then get branchswinged for a similarly attractive guy with more money/status

[–]Mimoxs 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Didn't trp have a huge user overlap with the incel sub back when both were up? Lol

[–]Mobrowncheeks 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incels are just redpill guys who won’t put in the efforts to be attractive.

[–]PlainTundra 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both inc3ls and gigachads can be redpilled.

[–]Snoo_16536Mrs Drgree and GridReXX call me Daddy! 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Describes me, my issue wasn’t looks. Years ago I was a broke college guy. My 4yr LTR broke up with me 3 months before graduation for a Medical Doctor from an Ivy League.

I had nobody to explain these things to me until I found TRP online and things started to make sense.

All the best!

[–]afkawayrn 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Accurate, there’s a lot of ways to piss guys off about women these days, so all the guys flooding to RP are doing so because of the multitude of things that are out of wack. The women however, because sexual market is just easier for them, are for sure either ugly femcels who think they deserve better than they really are, and probably a bunch of actually pretty girls, but have such giant heads in their shoulders they won’t accept anything that isn’t the peak of what FDS says they should have.

So that’s 2 girl categories, and I’d say for guys there’s quite a few. Like you said, good lookin guy but got swapped up on. Good lookin guy but has no social game. Good lookin guy but gets rejected by sheer numbers game. Average guy wanting hotter girl. Average guy with no social game like the good looking guy. Average guy rejected by sheer numbers game. Ugly guy rejected cause he’s ugly, ugly guy rejected cause no social game, etc. you get the point. There’s tons of categories of men who will be RP’ers because there’s so many more category of men stuck single. Where as for women, the ONLY two categories of women that are single are either A. A femcel who literally no one wants(just saw a post on Reddit about this on main page yesterday) and B. women who think no guy is good enough and they find a new excuse everytime they meet one to say he isn’t valuable enough for them. Might I add both if they really wanted to could still get laid, just by people they might not want to be by. Which isn’t the same for the men. You could maybe add women might also be on FDS because they took their career too seriously.

[–]Vtridolla 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Girl brain simple man brain big smart >

[–]lulumeme 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not at all what was said. Different groups have different conditions, problems and environment. Men have a harsher sexual market and thus much more different reasons for their problems and different needs.

Women in general have problems in different ways and areas that men don't have. It makes sense no? How does that turn into "women small brain" ?

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Wouldn't branchswinging imply that the other person was higher SMV?

[–]Mobrowncheeks 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Nah, branch swinging refers to a woman leaving a relationship with a man only when she has secured a new relationship with another man. The reference is to when a monkey is swinging from a branch, it won’t let go of the branch it’s on until it’s grabbed a new branch.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why would someone branchswing for an equal or lower SMV partner? Do you leave jobs for lower paying jobs?

[–]Mobrowncheeks 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

People leave their relationships for a whole host of reasons. I got branch swung on in college, and, I mean we were all college students, it’s not like we had any real status in the first place.

[–]Snoo_16536Mrs Drgree and GridReXX call me Daddy! 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

There is a hierarchy in every setting. If you can dominate your environment, then you have status in that environment and majority of the women there will be attracted.

[–]Mobrowncheeks 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He didn’t even go to our university, there was no environment that me and this man were both in.

[–]AreOut -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

because women like money/status and they always think other girls have better relationships (thanks to social networks)

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]sub-hunter 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My son is hot - he’s great looking. He has autism. So girls are repelled

[–]smallstarseeker 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bullshit. Guys have to do the approaching and have to create sexual tension with looksmatch or even significantly worse looking females.

The only time guy doesn't need to have any skills is if he is in the top percentile and is willing to settle with women which approach him and do all of the work.

[–]mrjolly123 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep agree

[–]HazyMemory7[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well women find 80% of men unattractive so I'm not really sure that both genders' standards are too high. I think the ones with standards that are too high are the super obese, single mothers in their mid 30s on dating apps looking for a top tier guy. Or a hoe with multiple baby daddies thinking any guy will take her seriously.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No. Looks aren't the only factor that matters to female sexuality.

TRP was born due to men finally understanding how female sexuality actually works(hypergamy,attraction to dark triad etc. Etc. ) and applying that knowledge to get what they want from women. How the dude looks is irrelevant for that realization.

[–]Snoo_16536Mrs Drgree and GridReXX call me Daddy! 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This. I was bluepilled in my 4yr LTR. I found TRP while searching for answers to my pain after my ex left me for an Ivy League Medical Doctor.

Having been on both sides, I think a man needs at least 60 % RP knowledge and 40% bluepill traits to run a successful relationship.

If you ignore certain things the RP teaches, it’ll definitely come back to bite you sooner or later.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya, I've found that only pieces of RP actually did anything for me

Same with Blue Pill. I most certainly ignore a lot of the 'nice guy' bullshit my mother taught me growing up.

Soon as I decided women were not worth the time or effort, the amount of attention I got rose, like through the roof.

I maintain the 'take it or leave it' attitude until we have become exclusive, then I give more. Small things like that :)

[–]ssnabberzPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points  (49 children) | Copy Link

The replies of all TRP men saying its simply a place to share “female nature” even though countless women have said all the shit the men have concocted & believe about women is just not true, they won’t believe lol. So i think that theory is bullshit based on not even allowed critique by the gender their theories are about

Its still amazing to me that men think they understand how women work more than a woman does who even would honestly try to help you

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 10 points11 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Women dont even know what they want for dinner, why would I listen to what you want in a partner?

We as men have been fed bullshit about what women want from the time we were born. 'Just be nice, women love nice guys, just do x, y, z.

None of that works on any sort of regular basis.

TRP wasn't a big change for me, but it did open my eyes as to why certain things worked for me, and why the things I was taught did not.

[–]ssnabberzPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I think you’re overgeneralizing, most normal human women do not want a man who ascribes to any of this red pill stuff. All of my friends (4/5 different women), and myself included, are dating “nice guys” because they treat us like regular people and not like we’re trying to screw them over at every turn, or that women are some vile demons who you need to follow some kind of spell to summon and keep. While i agree everyone should self improve and be self reliant, a lot of the shit spewed by red pillers is just false. None of the men we are dating are what you would consider “chads” either physically or in careers. they just treat us well and are there for us

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being RP and being nice aren't opposite things. Women like RP behaviors they just pretend they aren't RP behaviors.

or that women are some vile demons who you need to follow some kind of spell to summon and keep.

I don't believe for a split second you or any of your friends' BFs treat y'all the way they treat other men and women they don't have sexual interest in. No way in hell. This is the type of bad analysis that leads men to TRP.

My GF said out loud the other day (we were watching a YT video where a man mentioned having game) that, "game can't get you women." I laughed out loud and let her know flat out game is why she's even here. Y'all don't recognize what men have to learn to get women, you just assume it's natural to us.

It's why every ex-GF I had claims if we went to highschool together she would've been all over me but in real life I didn't have my first serious relationship (middle school shit don't count) until the summer before college. I wasn't the person I am today back then. 99% of men I know started changing their behaviors specifically to attract women. Almost every boy from ages 12-21 is in the middle of crafting his personality and life to get the type of women they want at the time.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful -1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I think you are overgeneralizing what TRP is. You probably think its just all 'hate women'.

TRP doesn't advocate for treating women like shit, the definition of the bad boy/asshole doesnt say anything like that.

It's more, make your choice and follow through, dont buckle under pressure from her, maintain your IDGAF attitude, etc.

I don't consider most men 'chads', in fact very few men are chads. Your dudes are probably just mediocre, as are you...and there isn't anything wrong with that, cause most people are just that.

I am not under the illusion that I am one of them even though I fit 99% of what TRP would define as one.

[–]ssnabberzPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Im average and most people are, i think the issue is average males of TRP try punching way above average and usually get shot down. Im not saying dont go for it, but shooting for a 10/10 while being a 5/10 is unrealistic and even women know that. Its been shown men rank average women a lot lower than average and dont have a good understanding of what average truly is, and think people who are actually above average, are average and have a smaller threshold of what’s attractive. x

I would also say that for me, and all of the women i know, an IDGAF attitude is a turnoff/fuckboy aligned. It may work in a chase mentality/hook up scenario, but women want to date a guy who they know is interested in them, that doesnt mean overbearing, but just saying “i like you and like spending time with you” rather than doing weird mental games works a lot better.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You got it backwards.

Women rated men below average, but still considered those men (swipe right, may entertain talking)

Whereas men had more of a bell curve as you would expect to see on a rating scale. They have a more 'realistic' view on what is attractive to men.

Of course women would rank each other more attractive, that is what they do. Women are significantly more uplifting to those in their friends group and view women as better than men. (Women are Wonderful effect) You may take one of your friends and call her a 7 and a dude would rank her as a 5 or 6 maybe...and it would be more consistent among men.

[–]ssnabberzPurple Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I found this other one that illustrates more what you said here

In regards at least to online dating.

And while you may be correct about the ranking, it does show the messaging habits in regards to attractiveness.

I think that shows a pretty significant inhibiting factor. If men are only willing to message the top highest attractive women and not engage with average women, that’s kind of on them for a high and unrealistic expectation and not expanding your market/possibilities.

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You should always expect that the most attractive of either sex is getting the most attention.

Men swipe right on something like half of all profiles on tinder, with a woman swiping right on sub 20%. They are still getting very little matches

If a dude is willing to swipe right on nearly half the profiles he comes across, you cant honestly believe he is being picky or overlooking 'average' women.

You can even look at the second to last graph and see even the most attractive of men are getting most of their matches and messages from below average women.

Do some men shoot out of their league? Absolutely.

But women's ego has also made them believe that they are out of most men's league.

[–]ssnabberzPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, if anything there’s many studies that show women are way harder/rank themselves a lot lower than they are. example.

Women have a very bad relationship with self image due to high societal expectations (and yes, things men/women/family have said to them) and usually are harsher on ranking other women as well (i would say friends are an exception, but most women are pretty honest with their friends and can be mean). dysmorphia, eating disorders, low self esteem, the like. Men don’t have that same kind of physical pressure from the media and those around them.

But if anything, men see themselves as way more attractive than they are, usually.

As for the other parts, i dunno. I honestly think after cruising many subreddits, rating subreddits, etc. the scale for “average” is way lower and frigid than one may think. What i would consider average is not what it seems like men consider average. What i would consider hot or pretty good looking is what men might consider average. So i think the scales are narrow

[–]C_Sec_MattSuc(sex)ful 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its not just the physical aspects.

Many women are placing value on things that men simply dont care about. I.e. Your Job, your degree. A woman that is a 5, shoots for men that are 6s and 7s. Thats the core of Hypergamy.

Men have standards they need to live up to as well. The same thirst traps men fall into through insta-thots are happening to women at greater rates why do you think women rate nearly 80% of men as unattractive? Do women truly just find that many men unattractive, or are the trying to compare them all to people like Henry Calvill or whatever?

As I pointed out before...women are generally more uplifting to other women. Sure you may tell a friend her dress looks bad...maybe. But you probably still look at a woman and find her objectively more attractive than men do on the curve...you kind of point that out with the last sentence.

[–]sub-hunter 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nah fam- women say that shit but it isn’