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Having a list of positive traits/achievements isn't enough for successful dating.

EulenWatcher
July 28, 2022
62 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate

There seems to be a lot of people, who believe that because theoretically they bring a bunch of great things to the table, they shouldn't have any issues with attracting a partner. And if they do struggle with it, the issue is in women/men, a lack of good partners around, dual mating strategy, porn etc.

They overlook several important things about dating:

  1. Certain negative traits can outweigh all the positive traits or achievements you have. You might be a math genius, have a good income, be well-read and whatnot, but if you're socially awkward or have a lack of social skills, boring/unpleasant to be around, can't read social cues, etc. A lot of people won't even try to get you closer so they could actually fall for you.
  2. Dating requires a lot of socialization and/or enormous amount of luck. If you don't meet new people regularly and you have a low success rate on online dating platforms, most likely you're fucked up dating-wise. Whether you like it or not, but you have to put yourself out there and actually meet new people and form new connections.
  3. A lot of positive traits people list about themselves don't actually play a big role in attracting a partner during the initial stage of dating. When you've just met, your appearance and being likable and pleasant to be around are more important than your degree, career or income.

So just having a bunch of good things about yourself isn't enough. Identifying your issue is far more helpful, than just staying angry with the opposite gender or blaming others for your troubles.

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Post Information
Title Having a list of positive traits/achievements isn't enough for successful dating.
Author EulenWatcher
Upvotes 62
Comments 97
Date July 28, 2022 8:34 AM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/having-a-list-of-positive-traitsachievements-isnt.1125412
https://theredarchive.com/post/1125412
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/wa4bl0/having_a_list_of_positive_traitsachievements_isnt/
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Comments

[–]iPatrickDev 17 points18 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Of course, rational traits can't outweight social and emotional ones. Relationship is a social construct of course being social is a must. Thankfully rational and emotional traits are not mutually exclusive.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Surprisingly a lot of people here seem to be sure that rational traits should be enough.

[–]Da_Famous_Anus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lacking enough 'traits' is a quick disqualifier that prevents many from getting a chance in the first place.

[–]s0ngsforthedeaf 14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Real life isn't like being a videogame character where buffing 'stats' = success.

Plenty of men with few redeeming characteristics are really successful with casual sex. They are lazy, slobbish, unreliable, unambitious, not even well dressed..a list of stuff conventional 'man theory' says not to be. BUT what they are, is comfortable in their own skin, sociable, and know how make women feel at ease (particularly at parties).

Don't mean to blow some red pill mind here, but a) I don't resent these guys at all. Good for them. They haven't oppressed me or stolen sex from the imaginary finite pool. They are making their own choices in life b) I would not want to be them. I think life is more than casual sex and drunken foolery. These guys aren't really something to aspire to be IMO - in fact, how much they enjoy parties and succeed at casual sex is holding them back. Again, if that's what they choose, fair enough.

If you could sit at home and specifically work hard on something that makes you better with the opposite sex then nerds would rule the world.

I feel like what most guys here are looking for, if they know it or not, is to be at ease with themselves. To find it easy and enjoyable socially interacting with new people, new friends, potential mates. That headspace takes so much weight off the back, even if there is no easy way to gain it.

[–]BitsAndBobs304 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

BUT what they are, is comfortable in their own skin, sociable, and know how make women feel at ease (particularly at parties). attractive looks

[–]Dafiro93 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To find it easy and enjoyable socially interacting with new people, new friends, potential mates. That headspace takes so much weight off the back, even if there is no easy way to gain it.

One of the best jobs I had for developing social skills was working at the front of a restaurant. You just meet all walks of life with zero pressure to push things further. All you have to do is have an enjoyable interaction. One of my favorite regulars was a State Park Ranger named Frank who had all of the stories in the world lol.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you could sit at home and specifically work hard on something that makes you better with the opposite sex then nerds would rule the world.I feel like what most guys here are looking for, if they know it or not, is to be at ease with themselves. To find it easy and enjoyable socially interacting with new people, new friends, potential mates. That headspace takes so much weight off the back, even if there is no easy way to gain it.

This is so true

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you could sit at home and specifically work hard on something that makes you better with the opposite sex then nerds would rule the world.

*rule the dating world, but yeah, I agree with your point. A lot of men struggle because they overall struggle with being at ease when they're out there with other people. I'm sure it applies to some women as well though.

[–]cliffthegeneralpeas 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

👏👍

[–]pearllovespink 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It reminds me of jobs and careers. Depending on the occupation social traits can outweigh rational ones.

[–]alchemist10000 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

So what if I identified my issue but it's not something I can change? I'm the first option as I have quite a few positive traits, but I also have some negative traits like being 5'5. What can I do with that negative trait?

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Height can be hard to deal with, but if you aren't considering some extreme ways of solving the issue, your best bet is to be as sociable and likable as you can.

[–]alchemist10000 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeh I admit I'm not the best at being sociable and likable so there's room to grow there. How bout physique...Would going to the gym and getting a fit muscular physique help with getting chicks or does that work only for men average height and above?

[–]Dafiro93 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being fit never hurt anyone, just don't expect muscles to be some sort of secret sauce. I'm fit now, been out of the gym for 2 years but I've been active. No visible abs but who cares when I wear a shirt outside of the shower. Build up your social skills and don't be overweight will get your further than trying to hit 8% bodyfat with abs.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's better to bit fit than not.

[–]BitsAndBobs304 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yes, but only if you have the capability to keep yourself fixed on the objective, which is to build a muscular physique that looks 'natural' as if you didn't go to the gym, and don't become someone who's into bodybuilding for massive hypertrophied muscles and bodybuilder aesthetic. a lot of people can't stick to it and don't get results. a lot of people who can stick to it get into it to the point that they never stop and end up enjoying doing it but the results are detrimental to the original objective.

[–]nvkr_Blue Pill Man 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s quite baffling how you can say, well there’s room to grow in terms of sociability and likability, but right after that, you directly head back over to physique. It’s a pattern you can see a lot of times here. My advice always would be, fix your personality first, as physique is only interesting in terms of initial attraction. If you can’t keep up with your personality, probably the fittest body won’t help you in the long run.

[–]giftedguy4978 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For most guys here the biggest challenge is initial attraction.

[–]Gigamon2014No Pill 12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Rational traits 99% of the time do pretty much guarantee dating success. I dont know many tall, attractive, fit or handsome dudes who haven't had any success in dating. I don't know any wealthy dudes struggling to meet the opposite sex. I don't know any pretty women who absolutely cant find a date.

The problem with these discussions on the internet are that they're on the fucking internet. A hive of mostly losers who lives suck so much that they need to come online and fake their reality. Any dude telling about all the positive traits he has whilst still not having success probably doesn't have any of those positive traits. I don't think there has ever been a time a woman struggling online has revealed herself to be as pretty, smart, attractive or personable as they claim to be. What I do see too much of is idiots who last weighed themselves five years ago be deluded enough to think the way they looked and acted at 23 is going to carry through now they're 28.

Its not about "having a bunch of things not being enough", if you think that way you likely don't have any of those things. I dont think any of the women here has, had or will date a legit Chad. I can tell from the shit most of you write. Most people are fucking delusional and lack any and all self awareness. If someone is struggling then its very likely they're nowhere near as appealing as they like to think they are and their so-called "positive achievements" are likely all bullshit anyway. Anyone can claim they're smart, attractive and successful on the internet.

When I was on Tinder I could count on one hand the amount of people who showed up and looed as good as their pictures. And now you want to convince me I should believe the stupid, rationalizing horseshit people say on an anonymous messageboard like Reddit? LOL.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You can accuse everyone in lying, sure, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a lot of these users who claim to be good on paper are lying about their traits, but there's a subset of men and women who do have a lot of good traits or achievements, but they're lacking in social skills/being likeable/actually going out and meeting people.

Rational traits 99% of the time do pretty much guarantee dating success.

If you hit the most important/necessary ones - social skills, being somewhat pleasant to be around and being at least somewhat sociable.

You can compensate these necessary traits by wealth, but then you also have to accept that the main way for you to attract a partner is your money. A lot of people aren't okay with it, as it's usually not a genuine attraction.

[–]Gigamon2014No Pill 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Again. Go outside and touch grass. Most people who are attractive and successful ARE socially capable. Their social capability is often the reason they're attractive and successful. Problem is you're doing the same annoying shit most people here do, conflating social capability with "niceness" and it just sounds like a rationalisation for mediocrity. Plenty of attractive and successful dickheads end up with partners because they're attractive and successful, and actually so...not clowns on Reddit claiming they're so.

And turns out data shows that successful and educated people marry and stay together more. So chances are the dudes using their money to attract women are actually ending up in more stable and fruitful relationships most of the time anyway.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's great for them and I'm not talking about them. And no, I don't conflate social capability with niceness. Where did you get this idea from my post? You can be a total jerk and still be successful at dating because you're good at attracting people.

[–]throwawaylessons103 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you. Lol.

The other issue is, when constructive critcism is actually given, a lot of people won't take it.

I could name 10 small things immediately the dudes in the "rating PPD users" thread could do to make themselves more attractive to women, but they don't care. Their response is that it still won't make them "Chad" so it's not worth it.

Imagine if someone said that in regards to income - hey, I could do this thing that makes me 80k/year (far above the average income) but if it doesn't make me a millionare, IT'S NOT WORTH IT! 😢 I'd rather be poor!

Women do the same thing in the FDS sub, and other regular dating subs. Not taking tangible feedback from men, and instead cosigning eachothers bullsh*t.

The men in this sub and women in the other one should just start dating eachother since that's the only opinions they care about.

[–]Gigamon2014No Pill -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Boom. Exactly this.

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I could name 10 small things immediately the dudes in the "rating PPD users" thread could do to make themselves more attractive to women, but they don't care. Their response is that it still won't make them "Chad" so it's not worth it.

Name those 10 things.

[–]johnny_is_home(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You might be a math genius

JFL no one thinks being a math genius will help guys get laid, what are you smoking? The opposite is true, smart guys should dumb themselves down when talking to women or they'll be labelled as nerds.

Dating requires a lot of socialization and/or enormous amount of luck.

Not for women. Literally just hop on Tinder or go to a bar/nightclub.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It was just an example. There are enough people of both genders who think that just having positive traits, whether they're linked to dating or not, should be enough for success.

This way one could find casual sex, but it's usually not what women seek. Also going somewhere is socializing.

[–]panascope 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

JFL no one thinks being a math genius will help guys get laid, what are you smoking?

My wife loved that I was the math team captain and mvp in high school. It always gets a laugh when I bring it up with other people too.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 4 points5 points  (44 children) | Copy Link

Women get that socialization if they have those positive traits, though, because men regularly approach these women whether these women like it or not. The same does not apply to men, which is why they have to put in a lot of work to increase their number of contacts with women through whatever form this takes. Most unsuccessful men aren’t putting in this work for one reason or another, or perhaps they are overestimating their own value and not dropping their standards.

[–]Dafiro93 4 points5 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

If you honestly get into the thick of things with some of the men on here, you will end up seeing a pattern. I've gotten into long comment threads with users on here and 9/10, they overestimate their value or blame height. They forget to mention that they gave up already. One guy is making $14/hour at 28 with no plan to improve his earnings. Another guy lives in a ghost town expecting women to pop out of nowhere because he refuses to move to a city.

[–]throwawaylessons103 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I've seen patterns here too, but more in regards to socialization.

In almost EVERY conversation I've had with unsucessful men here, they haven't asked out many women. 1 guy a few weeks ago complained about "constantly being rejected," but then admitted he had not asked out a single woman all year.

It makes me wonder - how often are these guys actually getting rejected IRL? Are they just counting dating apps as "rejection"? Are they even trying?

Even when you suggest small tweaks they can do to increase their chances, like improve their app photos or get some nice button down shirts, they don't want to.

[–]Dafiro93 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I give the same advice about looking at options outside of just the apps. It's like they each only use the apps because they can't compete irl but don't notice that the competition is even bigger on the apps due to the gender ratios.

I've tried to give advice to some of the guys like you have but it's in one ear and out the other. After a couple of days, they're back on here blaming their height again lol.

[–]NotARussianBot1984Red Pill Man 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hi, unsuccessfull guy that has approached hundreds of girls, i own multiple suits and dress shirts ive used when going out.

You said every. Now you should say most.

[–]throwawaylessons103 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I did put almost before the every lol.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In almost EVERY conversation I've had with unsucessful men here, they haven't asked out many women. 1 guy a few weeks ago complained about "constantly being rejected," but then admitted he had not asked out a single woman all year.

+++

[–]Used-Engineering49961 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Where am I supposed to try? I don’t have friends or any kind of social life. I don’t meet people, I can barely bring myself to talk to people at work

[–]Dafiro93 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Go do some community service and learn basic social skills. Join a soup kitchen, the homeless are not going to judge your social skills when you're feeding them. If you don't want to put effort into social skills then just prepare to be alone. Relationships are a social construct so they obviously require social skills.

[–]funlightmandarin 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t have friends or any kind of social life.

I don’t meet people

You can begin there.

[–]NotARussianBot1984Red Pill Man 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Hi, i blame height because ex gfs have stated it was an issue.

Signed a guy making 50/hr in a medium city and going to grad school, also planning to move for better jobs/dating markets.

[–]Dafiro93 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

How tall are you? I'm not going to dismiss someone's height as a factor if it's truly polarizing like being 4'11 as a guy but usually I see guys complaining about being 5'6 or somewhere around there.

[–]NotARussianBot1984Red Pill Man 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

5'7, as I said, I have no issues with my height (in a practical sense, not social preference sense), my ex gfs did.

[–]Zavier221 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah being 5'6 is still bad ?

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 2 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Many men don’t seem to realize that they’re the ones that need to put in more of the work since women are not as often thirsty for sex and relationships as they are. Furthermore, women often put in more work from the start due to female social matrix concerns and often just a general individual interest to look fashionable, or at least not disgusting like how some men who don’t put any work into themselves look.

[–]Gigamon2014No Pill 3 points4 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, no. Lets not do this bullshit. Women are just as mediocre as the men and just as many are looking for a long term partner. Posters like you are as fucking irritating as the incels. A study here in the UK mentioned that only 50% of women do rigorous physical exercise at least once a week. And thats a survey...meaning there are whole bunch of out of shape women walking around. And I see plenty of disgusting looking women too...I legit don't see any major differences in physical upkeep in either gender these days.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

Women comment on social media all the time about their beautification regimens and their fashion purchases. Some guys are into improving their appearance, but I think that this is a minority of guys rather than a majority like with women. Most guys really aren’t putting in much work and I think that it’s understandable why their attractiveness matches are turned off. And when they do put in the work, they often suddenly think that they deserve top tier women despite how unattractive their other qualities might be.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or they haven't approached anyone in real life for years.

[–]Gigamon2014No Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

perhaps they are overestimating their own value and not dropping their standards

This is all it is most of the time.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

They don't, if they don't put themselves out there.

Most unsuccessful men aren’t putting in this work for one reason or another, or perhaps they are overestimating their own value and not dropping their standards.

Agree with it and it's similar to the point of my post. Having some good qualities doesn't mean you're all set in dating.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They don't, if they don't put themselves out there.

She’d have to be a shut-in not to be approached. Women get approached by men while doing the most routine things.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, I've edited my comment:

Most unsuccessful men aren’t putting in this work for one reason or another, or perhaps they are overestimating their own value and not dropping their standards.

Agree with it and it's similar to the point of my post. Having some good qualities doesn't mean you're all set in dating.

Being approached doesn't add much to one's social skills. You can reject a guy pretty easily and it doesn't make you feel at ease with people.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I suppose, but if someone starts what is apparently a friendly conversation and that person seems somewhat attractive enough, most people are going to converse back. Very few women are just going to choose not to converse with anyone who approaches them. My wife is about as socially shy of a person that I’ve ever met and even she still converses people who approach her in a friendly way.

Many men don’t get these same opportunities. They are rarely approached, if ever, and as a result never become comfortable with interactions with the opposite sex.

[–]coastFI_chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women make way more effort to socialise even on the spectrum when learning social cues, norms and values.

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[–]jackedsoonwhite men cannot be incels 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

fax, so many deulisional guys on here listing their shit like 'im 6'5 blue eyes blonde hair, 6 fig salary but women dont want me!!!'

it sounds good on paper but u probs real ugly facially or just socially retarded

[–]NotARussianBot1984Red Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with probably. There are a few chads in socially isolated alaska or strike out when asking directly for sex instead of a date.

Most tall hot guys with game should get laid easy. Missing one of those traits? A lot harder.

[–]vorter 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, women fall in love via the emotions a man makes her feel. This is far easier with charisma/humor/behavior than with money and achievements.

[–]Caring_CactusPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

u/EulenWatcher I agree too, it's only one side of the whole coin. Most of these positive traits do not have an effect on the ability to find and keep a similar like-minded person too as you mentioned, two people coming together to maintain a relationship takes effort no matter what, and people underestimate this by focusing too much on circumstances/future instead of the present moment with the process.

[–]Admiral_Gecko 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Boring

Can’t read social cues very well

Well so much for the dating advice, I’m screwed from the start happening after all. I guess I’ll have a surrogate child later on then with the money saved from not dating. I’m off to go fly planes now.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can work on these things, if you do want to date.

[–]Dafiro93 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both of those can be worked on. I was both for the longest time because I played a lot of video games. Nowadays, you have to dip a bit into pop culture and news. Get out of the house and meet people, move if you're in the middle of nowhere. And just talk to people in general. I worked for years in a restaurant during school so it helped to see and talk to people of different walks of life.

[–]801735 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Having a list of positive traits/achievements isn't enough for successful dating.

BS. You're confusing dating for the hidden contract you're going "hunting" with.

Dating = going out to meet people and have fun with, implied romantic POSSIBLE outcome, most often referring to an 1:1 setting.

Dating thought of the "wrong" (but default) way = going on "dates" where the girl usually interrogates as thoroughly (but "quasi" inconspicuously) as she thinks is possible, whereas the guy only seems absent-minded, when in reality his mind is there, perfectly preoccupied with fantasy, he's already fucking her, has been since before they even met IRL. In case "things go well", the dude then jizzes in his pants or sometimes even lasts up to, what, 3, 5 thrusts? LOL

Questions? Thought so.

edit: As usual. What?!!!?

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

BS. You're confusing dating for the hidden contract you're going "hunting" with.

Not I, but men who actually believe they have a bunch of good traits, but still fail at dating. That's...kind of what my post about, but I guess you haven't read it and managed to misread the title.

[–]AidsVictim 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's mostly that people that are inclined towards/enjoy being social in a group will be successful and those that aren't will have a pretty miserable time.

The number one qualifier for men is that they have some social value/utility. Every quality after that is just where he lands on looks match scale.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can view it this way, but it isn't helpful for people who struggle with dating. Again, whether you like it or not, you have to socialize to date.

[–]coastFI_chaser 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. I prefer being alone 95% of the time tbh. I don’t enjoy socialising and while I wish I did I can’t change who I am.

[–]ReferenceImpossible2 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, you ever see a guy with the stereotypical BPD insane but super hot chick?

Raw stats can overcome A LOT of deficiencies, although that also depends on who’s overlooking them.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what your comment has to do with my post.

[–]ReferenceImpossible2 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, I was meaning that the positive trait of being super hot supersedes any of the other negative traits that they might have.

You could argue that these people ARE dating successfully

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd guess they still socialize and have some social skills. Also I'm not sure how successful "BPD insane" women are. Stereotypically they have a lot of partners, sure, but it isn't necessary my definition of success.

[–]sarkington -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Are money, fame and status positive traits/achievements? Can transactional relationships be considered successful dating?

If so, I disagree

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on your personal views and goals I guess. But I mostly was talking about people who do not want "buy" relationships and desire genuine attraction.

[–]BitsAndBobs304 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

all relationships and human interactions are 'transactional'. it's only a matter of degrees, how much nuanced , how much obvious, how much voluntary it is. what if they "truly loved" you? would you be happy? but what will happen once you realize that part of what makes anyone fall in love is the appreciation for your genes? your face symmetry? your immune system similarity and complementarity?

[–]sarkington 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Most people consider love non transactional

[–]BitsAndBobs304 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

most people think that free will is a thing. most people think to be deep and that most others are shallow.

[–]nocturn99x 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

how is free will not a thing? wtf?

[–]NeonCityNights 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

at this point, for men at least, the only positive traits that really count are having a profile/persona that makes you look like a wealthy, attractive, socially-savvy micro-celebrity that throws lots of parties and attends lots of parties and who takes pictures of these parties on Instagram

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you want to have lots and lots of casual sex, you might be right. A lot of men here claim they want to have stable relationships though and for that you don't really have to have a persona you're describing.

[–]NeonCityNights 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

perhaps, but it seems necessary to at least get an initial date

[–]EulenWatcher[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not from my experience.

[–]BitsAndBobs304 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

you forgot the #1 for both genders as attested by research, which is looking attractive.

[–]NeonCityNights 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I did include it there after wealthy

[–]flash13131313 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes these are important points to remember when women question why a man would have sex with them but not date them

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

These points are applicable both for men and women in different situations. There are enough shut-ins of both genders who are angry with the opposite sex for their total lack of dating, as if they expect a partner to fall from the sky how it happens in some animes and there are enough people who suck at dating because they have a lack of necessary traits for either attracting or keeping a partner they're interested in.

[–]flash13131313 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

agreed

[–]GottaPSoBadNo Pill 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You're OP is confusing, especially as an CMV. Are you making an affirmative argument that social skills and socialization are more important than they should be? Or are you just saying guys who think they "have a lot to offer" are misguided for undervaluing those two things?

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't sure what tag to place and was afraid that if I just chose "debate", mods would change it to CMV because there's an affirmative claim.

My main point is that having some positive traits isn't enough if you have a lack of social skills and/or you don't actually put yourself out enough.

[–]GottaPSoBadNo Pill 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

My main point is that having some positive traits isn't enough if you have a lack of social skills and/or you don't actually put yourself out enough.

I mean, I sort of agree in principle. Some of the examples you gave in the OP if positive traits were kinda nonsense (women don't date guys cuz they're good at math or could win a pup quiz), but it's absolutely true that social skills and socialization are key. A guy who's not putting effort into those things isn't really doing that work IMHO

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just yesterday I've had a conversation with a man who thinks that if he has a degree, is good with kids and have good domestic skills, he shouldn't struggle with dating. I don't think he understands that these things have little to do with the initial stage of dating.

And he's not the only example I've seen so far of men and women not realizing their good traits don't make up for a sheer lack of social skills/socializing.

[–]GottaPSoBadNo Pill 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

men and women not realizing their good traits don't make up for a sheer lack of social skills/socializing.

I'd rephrase this a little. This isn't "good traits don't make up for shortcomings." It's really that people with limited self-awareness shouldn't be overvaluing quaint things they like about themselves. As far as dating goes, the things that actually have value in the sexual marketplace are clear. If someone is missing some/all of those things, or they don't put enough effort into them, that's a lack of good qualities by definition. The rest isn't relevant.

[–]gorilla_blanco 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ever heard in betting “fade the public” Aka the public is usually wrong at picking the winner…. Dating is the same way… Women are terrible at picking men on their own… the less men in her corner, the worst the odds are against you.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

*Some women are terrible at it. Just as some men are.

[–]gorilla_blanco 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

agree….

[–]odd_cloud 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The reason people focus on their positive traits is that they are somewhat east to identify, evaluate, and/or improve. Also, we see that people who have outstanding qualities have it much easier. For example, really hot guys are approached by women.

It’s fair that you need abilities to be likeable and pleasant. But I’d call them people abilities rather than people skills, because it’s so difficult to identify and work on them. It’s difficult to say what differentiates a guy who is good with approaching and flirting from another one who fails with it. Most self development books in these areas can be summed up in “if you are boring and not confident, be interesting and confident”.

For example, I don’t really know how to approach women and flirt with them. Like, really I don’t know what to say after hi. No book suggests something material except for pick up books, but their approach is considered lame and canned and what not.

So, it’s natural that people like me think we need better appearance or a higher salary. At least we can see these parameters and can work on some of them.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a mix of abilities and skills and you definitely can work on them.

Flirting is all about being playful, giving hints, joking, making your partner blush etc. It's a thing line between being open about your lust and vague enough for them to guess.

I guess it makes sense trying to compensate with other attributes, but from what I see on this sub, it doesn't really help if you don't have at least basic social skills and/or don't actively meet new people and try to connect with them.

[–]odd_cloud 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand it’s a thin line, but there is little guidance on how to understand if you are on that line, how to reach it, and not cross it. For me, suggestion to work on flirting is like suggestion to learn math by just trying.

I’d say flirting you need advanced social skills for dating rather than basic. I know several people, including me, who have no problem with talking to people in other areas of their life.

[–]EulenWatcher[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I've lost your comment.

The issue is that flirting isn't math. It's more like...running or swimming. You get the basic understanding of what you're supposed to do and you're trying to do it until you learn.

[–]OhyarlysmilesI'm the guy in my profile pic pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea it is.

It's what makes for successful dating in the first place.

The guys who don't have a lot of good qualities but get laid are likely not going to land anyone of quality who takes them seriously.

In fact I have yet to see any chick who's infatuated by these dudes who I'd consider quality. Looks != quality.

Similarly, dudes who have their shit together usually intimidate the low quality chicks (who will do whatever mental gymnastics to pre emptively reject those guys).

High value dudes are pretty merciless when it comes to who they associate with and sleep with.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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