How can we make sure women and men are giving real consent?

Lie-Equal · 2021-01-13T17:40:55+00:00

I'm 35 and almost every sexual experience I've had has been the guy being super pushy until I give up.

Sounds like you need to avoid being in the same house alone with any man you don't want to fuck (whether yours or theirs). I mean, what other option do you think you have?

You blame patriarchy but this is why there were chaperones, because it was known that a large contingent of women, like you, can't properly assert themselves and never will be able to do so (among several other reasons).

Freedom ain't free.

simeneta · 2021-01-13T17:26:29+00:00

If you're 35 and still haven't learned how to be assertive that's a you problem. There are have been multiple instances where I went to a guys house, was making out with him on the couch/bed/whatever, then changed my mind about hooking up and left. Unless a guy is literally physically preventing you from leaving you have no excuse.

I don't understand women who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

angels-fan · 2021-01-13T18:33:17+00:00

How about women grow up and stop letting men "pressure" them.

If you are so fucking weak that you can't say no and stick to it, they we should consider you mentally challenged and you shouldn't be allowed out in public without a chaperone.

I'm curious to know what happens to women when they go into a car dealership??

"I didn't REALLY want this car, and it's way more than I can afford, but the salesman was pushy. What was I supposed to do?"

Posts like this just reaffirm that women are the oldest teenagers in the house.

SmurfESmurferson · 2021-01-13T17:25:16+00:00

This is the whole point behind the push for “enthusiastic consent.” It’s also somewhat similar to the thought behind the “all sex is rape” quote by Catherine MacKinnon (although, IIRC, her point was that women literally can’t consent in a patriarchal society)

Look, here’s my honest answer - no, I don’t relate to this. Maybe I’m somewhat selfish in bed, maybe I’m just a stubborn person, but I have never consented to sex acts that I did not want

And most especially for a ONS or STR - this mf’er doesn’t mean enough to me for me to bother being in a relationship with him, why tf am I going to consent to something I’m not selfishly interested in just for his benefit? If I have to either leave or kick him out mid-hookup, I will. And I have

This is where I go Team Man. I just don’t understand why women feel compelled to give into acts they don’t want. If I don’t want to do it, I’m not going to, and he’s going to have to decide if he wants to be a rapist or not. Turns out, the vast majority of men don’t want to be rapists. Thank god for that

None of this is to say I haven’t had sex when I haven’t been in the mood, or done things I wasn’t interested in just to satisfy my partner. But those acts have been done within the context of a LTR, where I’m fully invested in his pleasure as much as my own. ONS and STRs don’t get that consideration

Now, have I had “post-coital blues”? Sure, but they always center around me and my behavior. Ugh, I had a bit too much to drink and had sex with someone I really shouldn’t have. Ugh, why was I in such a kinky mood last night?! That sort of thing

Also, faking orgasms is a waste of time - all you do is teach him that touching you “wrong” will make you cum. Don’t do that, you’ll wind up never orgasming

rhomu-31 · 2021-01-13T17:34:47+00:00

Just blame the man seems to be working well so far

old_wise_man_ · 2021-01-13T17:13:05+00:00

So now we need to worry about consent and real consent? Okay.

colgateexpert · 2021-01-13T17:33:50+00:00

Oh my fucking god. These are the same women that demand to be viewed with respect when they can't even stand their own fucking ground on their own decisions. You consented. Your partner cannot read your mind. If you regret consenting, that's your problem.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2021-01-13T17:19:14+00:00

I've never really had to deal with this outside of LTR where there was a libido misalignment, but that's something you have to talk about and come to an agreement on.

As for people just 'caving in', that's really an issue of exercising agency. You have agency, you need to use it. Not expecting people to exercise their agency is infantilizing them and not acceptable IMO.

Clearly, if there's violence or the realistic threat of violence then that's rape and very different situation.

Edit: if you're in that type of a situation with a guy you don't feel comfortable exercising your agency then you need to either do a better job picking guys or get better at exercising your agency.

Tl;dr stop blaming 'patriarchy' for getting into compromising situations with LVM or not having a stiff enough spine to exercise your agency ... it's infantilizing.

death_by_1000_cats · 2021-01-13T17:27:40+00:00

Women -- Do you relate to this???

No. I have been in situations where I reluctantly went along with something I didn't reeeeally want to do, either because I was too tired to argue about it, felt uncomfortable/scared, just wanted to get it over with, was too passive to say no, etc. But... I consented. There wasn't a gun to my head. I never felt like my life or safety was truly in danger if I said no. It was just my own passivity stopping me from saying no, and my feelings about it after the fact were my own to deal with.

I just really don't think it's fair to expect men to navigate a woman's complex emotional landscape to that extent. Now not only does he need to get consent, but he needs to make sure it's the RIGHT KIND of consent and that he's doing right by this complex cocktail of female sexual psychology he doesn't relate to or understand? At what point does the woman have a responsibility here?

Sure, if she's crying or clamming up or wincing in pain, he should stop pushing. At the same time though, women who know that they are passive and have a hard time enforcing boundaries should avoid putting themselves in situations where that kind of thing can happen, because the simple and unfortunate reality is that he won't always stop, and at the end of the day the only person whose behavior you can control is your own. Not to get personal OP, but if at 35 you've almost never had a sexual encounter that wasn't reluctant or coerced, at some point you've got to examine the patterns of behavior that are continually landing you in those situations.

The quoted text just sounds like repackaged "all sex is rape under patriarchy" radfem BS. I'm just about as #TeamWoman as they come and pretty sympathetic to a lot of radfem viewpoints but even I find this ridiculous and totally infantilizing of women and frankly dismissive of actual victims of sexual assault.

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-01-13T17:16:52+00:00

Don't suck dick and then claim you were giving him non-verbal cues (for those who don't know — this is regarding what happened to Aziz Ansari).

Honestly, you just have to keep saying no. Part of the issue is women have these sub-conscious anti-slut signals which makes some of them panic when things are escalating, so they actively try to slow down the process even when most of them wants dick. That’s why ‘no means no, until it means yes’ is a saying in TRP.

Kaisha001 · 2021-01-13T17:23:31+00:00

How common is it for you to notice a woman experiencing "post-coital blues"?

Never, they were jumping me enthusiastically or it didn't happen.

How do you think we can better communicate about consent so that men aren't falsely accused or themselves sexually abused?

How bout.. I dunno. NOT HAVING SEX WITH THEM!!?? I mean that would be a start.

zorroOP · 2021-01-13T17:34:35+00:00

A better way to communicate about consent is making it really clear no is no. Start crying, screaming, run away from the situation. But what ever you do don't say yes and acuse someone of assult afterwards.

I bet when a woman start crying and screaming most of the men will get the message.

tnais · 2021-01-13T18:11:06+00:00

I think most of these issues stem from a lack of communication from both parties.

Ideally, women would be assertive enough to stand up for themselves if they don't feel comfortable with moving forward. Men would be attentive enough to make sure she's comfortable before moving forward if she doesn't seem enthusiastic.

In reality: some women are too polite/passive for their own good and allow themselves to be taken advantage of because they're afraid of being assertive. Some men are so preoccupied with finally getting laid that they're unconcerned with how apprehensive their partner might be about moving things forward.

When in doubt, communicate with your partner and make sure you're both on the same page.

Molasses_Humble · 2021-01-13T18:19:23+00:00

Consent frames sexual relations as gender-neutral where each party has equal power when this is not the case under patriarchy.

This is an example of what i call pseudo-victimization, or pseudo-oppression. If we take a look at this, the very idea women are freely able to choose sexual partners with no need to get married or have financial support or permission from a man means there is no patriarchy.

BUT, having no real restrictions means there are risks. So women still claim the oppression of the patriarchy without having any actual restrictions on their choice of sexual partners.

They want the freedom of a free person but the status of an oppressed person.

escapethesolarsystem · 2021-01-13T18:26:30+00:00

In straight relationships women feel overwhelming sadness and regret even after consensual encounters

This is called "I'm a slut" blues. It comes from sleeping with men you aren't committed to or who aren't committed to you.

In all my long-term relationships, after sex, the girl I was with was happier and in a better mood then normal. It would usually last at least one day, sometimes two, and she would be especially sweet, joyful, happy and loving.

Obviously I love sex because sex, but I love it even more because my girlfriend (who is already quite a nice person to be around, of course) is always her best self afterwards.

Brainless-Wonder · 2021-01-13T20:00:22+00:00

Responding to the question for men: Have I ever noticed post-coital blues? I’ve only seen that happen maybe twice, and it was for sex that either one or both of us clearly didn’t want by a certain point so we both stopped. Generally after sex, our moods are elated and content.

One of the best measures is preventative. Commonly the first way mentioned is to “get rid of slut shaming” but I think this misses the point. Teach both men and women that their worth does not come from sex. A man’s n-count has no bearing on his potential to be a fulfilled, well-rounded, and capable person. A woman does not need to provide sex just to feel attractive, validated, and wanted. You’ll get rid of a lot of pressured/unwanted sex if you instill these values early, greater sense of self-worth will lead to increased selectivity and openness. [Note: I said greater self-worth, do not confuse with inflated self-worth (narcissism).]

Teach women to be more communicative. Establish boundaries clearly and early. Do not be alone with him (especially in his car or back at his/your place) if you aren’t comfortable having sex. No has to really mean NO: Not “no, but let’s keep on making out” or “no, but here sleep in my bed with me” or “no, but you can keep fingering me.” Women’s sexual psychology is incredibly complicated and often difficult for men to relate to; a soft “no, but let’s keep doing this” while hooking up can mean that she wants to have sex but doesn’t want to be judged as “cheap” or a “slut,” or that she’s being very coy. If you are certain you don’t want to have sex at that point, it’s on you to cease physical contact or even leave the situation if you feel so inclined.

The political ideology behind the statement in the Tik Tok is dumb. It robs women of their agency and makes all men out to be oppressors and predators when the reality is that most men are responding to the cues being given. You can’t expect all men to be mind-readers, so when a situation is unclear and murky even to you, don’t expect him to just become psychic and know what’s going on in your head. A simple “hey, I’m sorry, I’m not really feeling this tonight”or “look I really like spending time with you, but sex is just going to complicate things, let’s just keep talking,” and then some physical distance between the two of you to let the tension subside is usually all it takes. Women need to be proactive in these situations, it can’t be up to men to dictate everything.

wekacuck · 2021-01-13T17:55:19+00:00

Ultimately you can't know WTF women are thinking unless they let you know.

What I've decided are things that are actually under your control:

The big ones:

How you ask
How you handle rejection

Fear of how you handle rejection seems to be a big theme and major concern for women. The obvious answer is you need to convince her to trust you. But she won't do that unless you don't actually flip your shit.

Other random things that seem fucking obvious when written out but apparently are not:

Finding out what she wants to do
Encourage her to say no
Not punishing her for saying no
Praising her for saying no
Helping her trust that saying no is not a problem
Stop and check if anything doesn't seem right
Have some sense of "possession" like in sport. If you take a shot and miss, it's her turn to make a play. If she doesn't, that was her play.
Expect to be rejected

YvesDosSantos · 2021-01-13T17:37:18+00:00

First off, it’s unfortunate that most of your sexual encounters sound like they have been with really pushy guys, I’m a guy myself and can’t really imagine ever behaving like this if I ever got a queue someone wasn’t interested.

This concept doesn’t completely make sense to me how it’s presented, but I am not saying there is not truth to it.

I personally have never heard of really any women talking about “post coitus blues” but I do know people who have regretted sexual encounters that were consensual.

What I’m not really understanding here is where it becomes non consensual because they regret having the sex afterwards?

Like I said, if it was sex with a pushy man and after you were like “ugh I wish I hadn’t just done that to shut that guy up, that was unlike me” I could totally understand that, but when it’s more like “I’m being oppressed because I consented to being ‘objectified and subordinated” I start to lose understanding of what the conversation even is.

I can understand where sexual relations with pushy people can get messy when fear, former abuse, and intimidation come into play, like why it can be hard for some people to say no in certain situations when that’s “all they have to do”, but this seems like it’s taking all the responsibility off women here.

If I’m totally misinterpreting this please lmk, but just from a mans perspective (who I would like to think of myself as being communicative to my partners, even if they’re one night stands) it’s sounding like women consented to sex with someone they shouldn’t have or without considering the risks of sex with a partner they’re not committed with? I don’t know how that falls on the man. Like why does the sex the woman consented to suddenly become all these things the man did to her.

At this point it feels like I’m essentially saying “dOnT pLaY tHe ViCtIm” and that’s really not my point here, it just doesn’t make sense to say this portion of a sexual encounter is explicitly oppressive in any manor, like you need to understand having sex with a partner you don’t know could potentially lead to dissatisfaction. That’s not an experience unique to women’s perspective.

You talk about faking orgasms to get people out of your place faster, it sounds like you don’t even want to have sex with these people like at all...I get not wanting to get fucked and left but it sounds like you’re partnering with people with different sexual compatibility than you, not people outwardly oppressing you.

wtknight · 2021-01-13T18:01:15+00:00

In straight relationships women feel overwhelming sadness and regret even after consensual encounters

The women who have been in love with me have (seemingly) wanted to have sex with me. I don’t relate to this statement at all. If women really feel this way, then they have to be willing to tell the man this or else he’s going to assume that she’s as into it as he is.

Mustbeaight · 2021-01-13T18:29:01+00:00

Damn I didn’t know men were automatically rapist when they have sex because of “Le Patriachy” ... it’s interesting to know that the fundamental reproduction act is a form of oppression too... Glad i never have sex..atleast i don’t “rape” anyone. Life is good

Brilliant-Hornet1916 · 2021-01-14T00:12:34+00:00

Most men would be more than happy to ask for explicit verbal consent every time they physically escalate, but they know they will be worse off for it because ultimately that's not how most women want their sexual experiences to happen.

The first part is it seems to me the majority of women like to absolve themselves of responsibility of choosing to have sex and would prefer the mentality of "it just happened in the moment". They do not want to be made to feel like they've made a conscious logical decision as it ruins the romance of the experience.

The 2nd part of it is how is asking permission going to affect how women view them. What do most women find attractive in a man? Some words that come to mind are decisive, sexually experienced, confident, dominant, leader. These are all qualities a man loses when he starts asking for permission to be sexual. What are women going to think of a man who asks "is it ok if I touch you here?" "is it ok if I put this in there? Are you sure? It's ok if you don't want to" - they're going to think he's sexually inexperienced, lacking in dominance, lacking in leadership, submissive, indecisive. So men are actually disincentivised from asking for verbal consent by women themselves.

There's also the question of what acts would require you to ask for explicit verbal consent? Does trying to hold a woman's hand require verbal consent? How about going for the kiss? How about touching her waist? How about taking his own clothes off? How about taking an item of her clothes off? This will result in a situation whereby you have at least a dozen different verbal checkpoints you need to request permission in every sexual interaction. Again, I don't think most men would have a problem if these were the rules everyone had to follow but they know they will be shooting themselves in the foot by coming across as weak in the eyes of most women, and the winners will be the guys who are "less considerate".

existentialhack1 · 2021-01-14T00:37:27+00:00

Like anyone is going to read anything that starts by referencing “the patriarchy”.

Who cares. Men are “pushy” about sex while women have the legal right to force men into parenthood and take their money via taxation. JFL.

richlad · 2021-01-14T03:59:50+00:00

I am okay having a central registery where people vote their consent

Emberily123 · 2021-01-14T21:24:49+00:00

I relate to this too much. One day pushed so far I felt disgusting and gross, I cried after. I have fake orgasming more times then I can count so they go away. I’m not saying it’s rape but that doesn’t change how you feel after. Women need to learn to say no and be more firm even if it’s really fucking scary. I think we need to also treat rape against men and women more seriously, to me rape and serial sadistic murder should be punishable by the death penalty but that wouldnt happen. Also I think so people here need to understand that many women are made to feel like they owe men sex, just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

smallrockwoodvessel · 2021-01-13T17:25:03+00:00

I see consent like a cup of tea.

Do unconscious people want tea? No.

Can people change their mind about drinking tea halfway through the cup and communicate that to you? Yes.

If someone says they don't want tea, would you give it to them? No.

https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ

Hoopy223 · 2021-01-13T18:28:27+00:00

Signed affidavits witnessed by a lawyer like in Cherry 2000.

John_Oakman · 2021-01-13T18:43:40+00:00

People regret doing a lot of things, things like joining certain jobs (it's a running gag in the military among the enlisted that signing that 4 (or more, depending on the MOS) year contract was a terrible mistake on multiple fronts), or make certain purchases (boots (newly enlisted dumb fucks) be like getting that ford mustang or dodge charger at 28% APR), etc.

In those cases, such choices that will affect them for years if not decades, the general consensus from society is that they should have not being so fucking stupid in the first place and that with the stupid decisions being made, they need to owe up to their massive mistakes and fix their shit (or pick up the pieces, many of them are absolutely fucked). They had plenty of warnings, they disregard it, and regret does not absolve them of their mistakes.

At some point, an individual is responsible for their own decision, and regret does not retroactively make them the victims... or they could hand over their decision making ability to others to began with and not be responsible for their decisions (like children and other special cases). Generally speaking it's bad form to mix and match the two mutually exclusive options.

MajesticMaple · 2021-01-13T18:50:12+00:00

How can we make sure women and men are giving real consent?

I follow Mark Manson's "fuck yes or no" approach. If she is not enthusiastic about having sex with me then it's a no. This could only really be confused with the "fawn" response, but since part of the "fuck yes" approach is not being pushy I doubt women would go into "flight, fight, freeze or fawn". If she does fake enthusiastic consent (fuck yes) then I don't see how it can be reasonably considered my fault if I am not pressuring her.

cuckspace · 2021-01-13T18:59:42+00:00

It’s easy. Don’t have sex.

SeemedGood · 2021-01-13T20:28:09+00:00

[deleted]

IcarusKiki · 2021-01-13T21:26:43+00:00

Use social cues. If a woman seems really uncomfortable then back off. If a woman is playing hard to get she’ll still probably act flirty and give interested body language. The whole enthusiastic consent thing isn’t about having the woman sign a contract but making sure she’s not being blackmailed or manipulated into agreeing to sex by listening to her body language. I swear people here are all on the spectrum.

iloveyoubutyou · 2021-01-13T21:31:42+00:00

Ask. When in doubt, ask.

Soon-to-be-Catlady · 2021-01-14T01:05:30+00:00

guy being super pushy until I give up.

I have been in a similar situation before, and I am pretty sure it happend because I tend to avoid conflicts. I talked this issue through in therapy and I am learning to be more assertive and allow more "aggressive" feelings as I never felt real anger about anything. Maybe talking with a counselor about it might be good for you as well. I don't remember feeling post-coital blues except maybe when I was already emotionally very very charged.

It think it's difficult to determine how much sensibility we can expect from the sexual partner. If I decline three times and he still pushes for it, I think that's really not okay on his part, but it's still not the same as assault. And I have seen this happen the other way around too. I feel really bad by now that I was pushy towards my ex sometimes because I was hornier than he was.

When looking at patriarchy/power imbalance etc I guess at some point you can talk about some form of coercion, e.g. if there is a valid reason to be afraid of consequences if you decline. But this won't be the case that often. If you don't feel safe around the men you are dating, I reiterate what others said. Don't meet them at home, take longer time for dating before anything physical etc. As someone else said, guidelines from the sub femaledatingstrategy might be helpful, just don't take their whole concept too serious.

Krychek26 · 2021-01-14T01:22:20+00:00

Stopped reading when I read patriarchy because I knew I'd lose braincells.

deathbecomesme123456 · 2021-01-16T10:13:09+00:00

Yes I felt this way a few times in the past. Let me take a moment to respond to a point I saw earlier in this thread:

Women aren’t children so why are you saying they have no agency.

Yes, women are not children, but in my experience the women who have the biggest issue with asserting themselves are younger (teenagers and early 20s). Depending on your life experiences, that’s still very young and that’s before you gain enough experience to begin to release yourself from societal expectations, namely, catering to men. When you grow up hearing that you shouldn’t be a tease and give men the wrong idea, and upset him by changing your mind, it becomes very hard to stand your ground with a “no.” This is made more difficult if you have a history of trauma, which may cause you to have a freeze or fawn response in stressful situations.

Also on the issue of men not being mind-readers, why is having empathy and intuition for your partner considered mind-reading? If you asked your friend to go to dinner at an Italian restaurant 15 times in a row and she says different variations of no, why would you think she actually wanted to go even if she finally acquiesced on the 16th time? Do you people really not know what it feels like to be badgered and coerced? And especially in a sexual context, perhaps with drinking involved, learned behaviors, trauma responses, and women being smaller, it leads to women often giving in to save themselves. I just don’t understand why men can’t be nice and respectful of a no. Like instead of getting into the weeds about whether that scenario meets the legal definition of rape, why can’t we all agree that it’s a supremely shitty thing to do and it can be traumatizing even if it isn’t technically illegal in certain jurisdictions?

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-01-13T17:24:43+00:00

I've had has been the guy being super pushy until I give up.

Thats a you problem. Use your words and say "no" and act like you mean it. Too many women, far too many, no means maybe, this included my wife when we were dating. I even confronted her on this in a nice way with a friend of hers in college. The both said "no means no except when its a maybe".

So this is on you not men being mind readers.

"I do not want to have sex, this is making me very uncomfortable, stop it now!"

If that doesn't work....

"I said STOP! If you don't I'll file sexual assault charges."

If that doesn't work guys a rapist so do your best.

Mimoxs · 2021-01-13T17:53:52+00:00

Women -- Do you relate to this???

Yes. Your description of

every sexual experience I've had has been the guy being super pushy until I give up.

And

women feel overwhelming sadness and regret even after consensual encounters

And

This is why I'm fine faking orgasms too, it helps move the sex along until I can get the guy out or leave.

Are all also my experience. And I wasn't having ONS or hookups or anything, they were committed relationships, but I still feel sad and regretful every time.

I just don't think it's really possible to change anything. Maybe I'm just overly pessimistic.

Also, you're not going to get good faith answers here, there's no real point trying. Most of these men barely have empathy for rape victims, let alone someone who was guilted into consent.

MasterTeacher123 · 2021-01-13T17:32:26+00:00

I don’t worry about being “falsely accused” because I understand no means no and I also understand social cues.

If you have to ask, you don’t know what your doing

DarthCach · 2021-01-14T00:37:50+00:00

It's not that men are children who don't understand spoken and/or body language, it's that they don't agree with it. At some point the problem is comprehension, not communication. Keep pushing after the first 'no' you can't very well be surprised when there are consequences for it, but men will feign ignorance to avoid responsibility.

"She was an open book, he was illiterate."

ivy176 · 2021-01-14T03:08:08+00:00

Men will just deny this and say the responsibility is on women, completely failing to understand how most women are raised to be people pleasers, that overtly saying no is always inappropriate and that a majority of us have been sexually assaulted. Plus that most sexual assault is minimized and/or you're called a liar, so best not to talk about it.

It's the same tripe as saying women must like abuse if they stay in abusive relationships. Manipulation is.. a thing. Lol.

Apparently the people most knowledgeable about rape will be men who have never been raped.. sarcasm.

I had this issue a bit when I was younger, but now I would never ever fake an orgasm or go along with sex. I think it needs to be a part of sex education and be drilled into women from a young age to never tolerate pushy inappropriate behaviour from men.

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thelajestic · 2021-01-13T17:48:39+00:00

Wow. No I don't relate to this at all.

I've had a couple of iffy sexual encounters in my life but the overwhelming majority were enthusiastically consensual on both sides.

In straight relationships women feel overwhelming sadness and regret even after consensual encounters (postcoital blues)

I certainly don't relate to this.

For me, sex isn't something that men want from me and I "give up" or agree to do. It's something fun and enjoyable and I participate in equally with people (both men and women). I don't wait around for someone to try and solicit sex from me and therefore always have to be in the position of accepting it or rejecting it.

In my current relationship I probably initiate sex slightly more often than he does, but a lot of the time it's kinda just been a natural move - we're snuggling, we kiss, it carries on, we press in closer and it kinda organically moves from there. Sometimes we'll be chilling out and one of us will just go "fancy a shag?" But neither of us are ever offended or press the issue if the other declines.

This is why I'm fine faking orgasms too, it helps move the sex along until I can get the guy out or leave.

I have never, ever done this. I really don't see the point. Yes, occasionally during sex I have realised I'm not feeling it (more tired than expected etc) but I would just say, and stop proceedings. I wouldn't hurry it along or fake enjoyment - what is the point. In a similar vein if my partner needs or wants to stop for any reason I always do immediately. I would hate to think he was just faking it and hoping it was nearly over.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2021-01-13T17:53:33+00:00

I leave politics and feminist logic out of the bedroom.

reluctantly_red · 2021-01-13T18:42:44+00:00

Only have sex with people who want to have sex with you. It's really that simple. It's pretty damn easy to tell if a woman is DTF or not.

CatchPhraze · 2021-01-13T19:14:29+00:00

I have had to literally run out the door, but I've been allowed to leave. I just don't get why men can hear no no no no and think the fourth is a yes.

Tldr: woman are responsible for their behavior but so are men.

2021-01-13T19:49:06+00:00

[deleted]

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-01-13T23:18:47+00:00

Women need to stop being passive and place all expectations on men being sexually dominant.

I have hear some arguments saying it is biology that women want to be passive.

I disagree and think we are more flexible than that.

JB8511R · 2021-01-13T23:45:03+00:00

I guess I’ll just never have sex then, because I can’t tell if she’s saying yes because she wants to, or because of the patriarchal forces

wizard_down_there · 2021-01-14T01:58:53+00:00

Unless you're so hot that a woman is begging for your dick, how else are men supposed to get laid?

If men weren't pushy for sex only hot guys would have it.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-01-14T04:37:13+00:00

Recently I posted that I think women should more often approach men.

But the reply I got was that then the men will use them for sex.

Which makes no sense from a guys perspective.

What do you think about this?

ijustwannabeagoat · 2021-01-14T10:47:31+00:00

That some women actually think like this is alarming.

Garpfruit · 2021-01-15T00:15:38+00:00

First of all, any premise that is based on the concept that there is a patriarchy is inherently flawed because it’s making a huge sweeping assumption about every aspect of society that is partially, if not wholly incorrect. It’s just a very bad foundation on which to build any sensible deductions.

What it is actually based on is who is the initiator. I once had a woman come into me, which I wasn’t opposed to, but I intentionally ignored her advances for several minutes because I wasn’t sure that I was interpreting her actions correctly. I explicitly asked if they wanted to have sex, because I wanted to be 100% sure that I was getting consent. I’ve also been pressured, as a man, by a woman, to have sex. So it’s not as one way as you seem to think.

Men actually do feel post-coital blues too sometimes, but there’s that whole “men don’t show emotions” thing that makes up usually try to hide it. I think that there may be a connection between being pressured into sex and post-coital blues, but that’s just a guess.

Enlightenment thinking is actually vary anti-oppression on a state level. A king who’s subjects ignore his decrees is just a madman with delusions of grandeur. That’s what consent of the governed means.

It’s not that anything consensual can’t be bad, it’s that if you decide to consent to something then you have to take responsibility for that decision to consent. Of course being pressured into consent is bad, and shouldn’t happen, but you said that you sometimes give into the pressure because it’s the path of least resistance, but then you later sometimes regret it. If you regret it that much then don’t choose to give into the pressure in the future. Regretting a bad decision doesn’t free you from responsibility. I bet almost everyone in prison regrets what they did, but they still have responsibility for their crimes.

geyejoe7 · 2021-01-15T23:25:35+00:00

In my opinion:

you shouldn't take advantage of anyone that was immediately emotionally hurt, is drunk or on drugs, or very poor so they have to resort to things for money

If the person fits none of these and still has sex with you, they can fuck right off if they wanna claim rape.

escapethesolarsystem · 2021-01-13T17:55:18+00:00

This problem only happens because slutty, feminist women get drunk, sleep around with strangers, regret it, but won't own up to their actions and want to make it a man's fault.

The problem can never be fixed as long as these are the majority of western women. Teach women to take sex seriously and only do it with people they are in a serious relationship with and 95% of this problem goes away.

2021-01-14T06:16:52+00:00

Yeah, you’re right. As a woman you have no agency. /s

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-01-13T18:45:01+00:00

[removed]

psypD · 2021-01-14T04:09:41+00:00

We make it illegal to have sex unless there are at least 4 other people watching attentively and documenting the event.

Whisper · 2021-01-14T05:38:00+00:00

How common is it for you to notice a woman experiencing "post-coital blues"?

Never seen it.

How do you think we can better communicate about consent so that men aren't falsely accused or themselves sexually abused?

Doesn't matter how you can. You won't.

Middle-Maize3180 · 2021-01-15T03:38:22+00:00

Women like you are the exact reason why if there is a he said she said situation I almost always take the guys side.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and I am sad that you at 35 haven’t learned to be an adult.

Title	How can we make sure women and men are giving real consent?
Author	leaving2night
Upvotes	3
Comments	454
Date	January 13, 2021 5:07 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kwkrvv/how_can_we_make_sure_women_and_men_are_giving/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-can-we-make-sure-women-and-men-are-giving-real.735121 https://theredarchive.com/post/735121