How the Red Pill indoctrinates young men and dismissing the " reasons " to not engage with women who were promiscuous in the past.

Altruistic_Mud7925 · 2022-10-04T18:32:19+00:00

1- modern science is dead most studies cannot be replicated; aways look in the methodology before the results.

2 - if she had 200 boyfriends in 10 years, what value do you think she puts on you?

3 - honestly every partner should be tested for both sake.

4 - you got wired to accept this behavior, the same way others are wired to not accept; most of what you accept or not come from childhood and past life experiences.

5 - Here you're just wrong Masculinity is defined from ancient times from today being basically the same thing with small cultural changes, is not defined by men; they are inherent things.

6 - the reason why women engage if the men was promiscuous in the past is because those are the man that women see as right value men; because the effort the be attractive is in the men the one who was choosen often have **something**, is pre-selection; but a turn off will aways be a turn off be it women or men.

7 - Again, wrong. You will see that most women find men who have girlfriends more attractive by default, it's pre-selection again. Because he already has a girlfriend it means that he already have a chance as a mate where the lone person will be seeing as strange because we are social animals but this one do not socialize.

The last part make you sounds like germany is a horrible place to live.

DumbWordsmith · 2022-10-04T18:49:44+00:00

"It's about how I feel "

Some of your other points have validity, but this one is absurd.

It's okay to avoid committing to someone else based on how they make you feel. Imagine commanding a woman to get over her "insecurities" and date a short guy, or a guy who makes less money than she's comfortable with, or a scrawny guy with a body type she's not physically attracted to. Does she need to justify it? Imagine suggesting that she go "work on it." You'd be laughed out of the room, and rightfully so. If those types of men don't make a woman feel good, she has every right to avoid those men, no? Good for her.

These are consensual relationships we're talking about.

People will date people who make them feel good. And if a dude wants a woman who shares his views on sexuality, then he has every right to pursue that type of woman. You're not in charge of dictating how men "ought to behave" with their own bodies as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

Sofia_sticated91 · 2022-10-04T17:58:33+00:00

I recall a post on this sub saying "Men don't need to justify their aversion of promiscuous women at all. Just Ew is enough. Nothing more. No psychoanalysis, no studies, nothing. Just Ew."

Edit: it's actually one of the top monthly posts

Play_Muted · 2022-10-04T18:11:53+00:00

TLDR: its your regular ''you must accept high n count otherwise you are insecure cmv''

And no, we arent insecure for having standards.

Altruistic_Mud7925 · 2022-10-04T23:49:32+00:00

Ooh, another woman getting off the cock carousel mad that men don't want to take her seriously. How original. You don't get to dictate men's feelings. You don't want your body dictated, it isn't anymore. But to think you have the right to dictate how men feel is entitled and laughable.

_Remember_me_not_ · 2022-10-05T14:02:27+00:00

Good for you if you are not repulsed by promiscuous women. It means that you will have far more wonderful choices since a good number of men do not want those persons at all. It's a simple matter of personal preference and you cannot force those choices on others, that will be forceful indoctrination and unwarranted societal pressure. That would be like forcing women to unwanted arranged marriages, forcing gay men to like women instead of men or forcing queer people to conform to the traditional norms which all would be a very unfortunate turn of events.

RahLyt · 2022-10-04T19:19:00+00:00

I don't know why we need studies about this. In my world there's 2 reasons to not date a promiscuous women.

It's literally just disgusting. I'm pretty sure there are promiscuous women who are well put together, just having fun and not degrading themselves too much. But that's not what we picture as men, we picture all the hoes we know. The girls who are known to be easy and invited to the parties specifically for this reason. The girls that all your friends fucked already. The girl that looked decent but gave a BJ to a rando on the club's toilet and went home with a different guy. Tell me what men wants to date the girl that's known as a slut and is invited to motives because one of your friends hasn't got laid in awhile?
Your reputation as a man is completely destroyed if you're willingly dating a hoe.

If the past doesn't matter why are most women saying they are not attracted to bi men? Because they perceive him different after realising he was submissive to another men. Now tell me how do guys feel to date a girl who got an all fours to 35 men? She's not fucking these men, she's getting fucked by these men. Being submissive to this many people it's completely unnactractive for a relationship.

Altruistic_Mud7925 · 2022-10-04T19:05:00+00:00

Women aren't insecure about promiscuous men, they are insecure about virgin men. I'll listen to you shame women for not dating virgin men like you are shaming men.

poppy_blu · 2022-10-04T17:15:48+00:00

Are you suggesting that white women who date black men are promiscuous or seen as such?

Cause I always thought the aversion was just white men insecure about their dick size.

studentsensei · 2022-10-04T17:36:39+00:00

2) Baggage is something nobody wants and women don’t want mens baggage either

3) Okay

4) It gives certain men pause who want women with the same beliefs as them. Believe it or not but not every man wants to have casual sex and they want a partner that sees sex as something sacred. Sex can’t be sacred to someone with a high n count.

5) There is no “patriarchy” and nobody says it’s not masculine lol of a high n man got with a high n women literally nobody would know or care

6) Women aren’t expected to do anything but what’s in their own best interests just like men are. That pretty much blows up your entire essay right there.

7) Women assume the men they want has options. That’s why preselction works so well. Ask any man here how that goes. When I’m dating women and other women know I’m taken I have to beat them off with a stick lol it’s so bizarre to me but TRP explained it perfectly

Da_Famous_Anus · 2022-10-04T20:43:09+00:00

At a very fundamental level I don’t understand why dominant culture supports women’s rights to have high standards no matter how shallow, fair or arbitrary they may be (height) and yet does not support men’s rights to do so for themselves.

I do not understand this.

darkvalleys · 2022-10-04T17:14:31+00:00

I’m not interested in convincing men to do things they don’t want to do, like marry sluts

DaoMark · 2022-10-04T18:51:54+00:00

I think reason number 6 is the most common reason that you will see in men; this is anecdotal of course, but I actually started to talk to all of my guy friends about it, even the more progressive ones, and I just asked for complete honesty.

Nearly all of them just said that they are territorial, possessive, and absolutely hate the idea of another man's dick touching what belongs to them ( basically, not their words, but that is pretty much what it is ), it being in the past is a pretty meaningless distinction since it " still happened "

I feel like a lot of the reasons people here on PPD bring up regarding this are superfluous ( regardless of whether or not they are true, good reasons or bad reasons ) and not things you ever see guys really say IRL ( the exceptions are 2-3)

Now, you can say that reason is sexist or objectifying, and I am sure you can make a very strong argument that it is; but the reality is, most guys actually don't give a fuck if it is sexist, to keep it real with you - " sexist " is just a meaningless buzzword when it comes to this topic.

A lot of women here on PPD understand that this is the real reason, which is probably why they go so hard on this n count topic whenever it comes up, so I get it...

Oh, and another common reason is they just think its gross as hell

"It's about how I feel "

Do you not think women are insecure? They are just expected to be mature adults about it . I'm not saying to ignore your insecurity but rather acknowledge it and work on it. It makes no sense that we are so emotional, crying amongst other men in these communities about promiscuous women yet women despite being insecure still engage if a man has a promiscuous past.

It might be insecurity for some men, but it is not necessarily the case that they are insecure, that is an assumptions you are making - I think its just objectification and jealousy most of the time, which doesn't require you to be insecure to feel.

I've heard of white men who couldn't get erect when his girlfriend told him her ex was a black guy. Some may laugh but his feelings are genuine . You take his feelings seriously and address them . You don't tell him to submit to his feelings never dating women who dated black men . This community caters to men emotions priming young men to make demands to the women irrespective of how they are treated. Many men in the comments said they aren't comfortable with their significant other wearing leggings and so on so they would tell her to change because of how it makes them feel . The same with a conversation you didn't like in public. We are creating , priming , emotional , entitled, indignant young men.

This paragraph regarding white men not wanting to date girls who have got fucked by a black guy is like some extremely specific instance of a dude being concerned about a girls history in a particular way, that is not necessarily linked to the overall preference, so I don't even know why you mentioned it as if was a example representative of how men generally feel about it.

This seems pretty dishonest, were you just trying to do some emotional appeal to make your argument seem more convincing by including something that be could considered a little racist?

I'm a man and and have no problem with a promiscuous past . Many pornstars who are married now . This notion that all men are emotional, insecure or just appealing to some social standard/misrepresenting studies to dismiss a woman by a biological assertion is not true. Plus there's culture where women are not shamed for being promiscuous like the Mosuo People .

This is a non point - I am not completely sold on the biological talking point, but most of the people who believe it to be the case make it very clear that they are speaking in generalities, so you as an individual not experiencing that jealousy does not invalidate the trend and is entirely irrelevant.

The existence of the Mosuo people is also not evidence against there being a being a biological basis, this isn't how science works.

You'd have to put forth a hypothesis, and do a fuck ton of accounting for variables like:

do young boys show greater proclivities for sexual jealousy in youth that is ironed out through the extreme pressures of the Musuo cultural institutions, or did the proclivity not exist at all?
Do young boys experience this jealousy in higher rates than young girls in the Musuo culture
Is the reason why women are not shamed because the society is matriarchal, and extremely oppressive towards men, so men do not have the power to implement any of these desires and are forced to accept their circumstances - or is it because men genuinely don't care?
What are the difference in interest pre and post puberty?

Etc...

The point here is, just pointing to a society where you don't see the same overt shaming that goes on in more traditional countries, isn't evidence that the preference is primarily cultural.

The Musuo culture in particular is actually pretty fucked in its treatment towards men, so I don't even know why you'd point to that society in particular as if it was some neutral ground where we could assess the preferences without social contagions.

There is no good reason to dismiss a promiscuous woman and it only serves as typical sexism/misogyny in our society while men are praised for promiscuity and women are shamed , dismissed , force to accept a man's demand by how he feels and may even be killed for it .

Another emotional appeal, this isn't an argument.

I am pretty sure I have seen you in Destiny community arguing about this same topic a few months ago, you make post after post about it lol - bro, why are you so obsessed with guys not wanting to date girls who've been around the block?

poppy_blu · 2022-10-04T17:12:25+00:00

Are you a woman? And whats your n-count? haha

Lovers691 · 2022-10-04T19:54:25+00:00

Not redpill but I think men should have the right not to want to date non-virgins/promiscuous women so I would address your points.

1.) The studies still shows virgin women have the lowest divorce rate site it becomes slightly less after but the point is that virgins still divorce less . We don’t know the reasons after 2 the woman divorces less but the point still stands that you should go for a virgin considering the data.

You didn’t debunk this point you just brought up a non-sequitur, the redpill is about men’s best interest in dating not about women’s dating or about finding friends. This is similar to saying why doesn’t an animal rights group talk about women’s rights, those are two different issues.

3.

Then get her tested

You also didn’t refute this, the promiscuity is a simple test for the STIs, you don’t ask a woman for an STI test for the same reason you don’t ask for a paternity test she will feel insulted, it is a simple litmus test for this issue. Personally, I don’t care about a woman feeling insulted so I will ask for an STI test from every woman I am in a sexual relationship with.

" Men are hard wired to not want women who were once promiscuous women"

I'm a man and and have no problem with a promiscuous past

Exceptions don’t make the rule this is similar to a guy who has muscles dystrophy being used to refute the physical superiority of men over women.

Many pornstars who are married now.

Yeah but they also divorce a lot, I have no study on this but a lot of the most famous pornstars have short lasting marriages.

This notion that all men are emotional, insecure or just appealing to some social standard/misrepresenting studies to dismiss a woman by a biological assertion is not true. Plus there's culture where women are not shamed for being promiscuous like the Mosuo People .

Stop ascribing moral value to a biological claim in the same way women aren’t bad people for wanting taller men, men aren’t insecure for being disgusted by promiscuous women. Although I have no research on if men are biologically disgusted by promiscuous women, in most patriarchal cultures(like 99.999% of cultures) women are shamed for promiscuity even in an African culture like mine before they met Europeans there was virginity testing on the wedding night(if the woman didn’t bleed from her hymen breaking that was grounds for a divorce). It is interesting that you brought up the Mosuo one of the only matriarchal cultures on earth and they don’t care about woman’s’ sexual past, this is actually evidence for men being disgusted by sluts(writing promiscuous one a phone is hard) because in the cultures where they rule slutshaming is enforced.

Masculinity /Social standing

I've seen men break up with their girlfriends because the boys thought she wasn't cute .

Women also do this so point?

As men in a patriarchy we tend to value what other men think too much however this isn't becoming of a strong willed person . This is a testament to weak individuals who life is dictated by whatever the perception by men is . Saying it's not masculine or it may damage my social standing no matter how great the relationship is tells me how weak you are as a person. You are a pawn that has wants and needs set by other men in the society.

Humans are a social species and like I said in the above women also do this so what is your point. Social standing matters and no one wants to be mocked or rejected by their social circle, there are women who also don’t pursue short men because of the ridicule of their friend, are they weak? I’d say no because social standing is everything and you can’t just cutoff your social circle and find a new one.

modidlee · 2022-10-04T22:18:17+00:00

I got tired of reading this dissertation after a certain point. Just realize this though...women will see a post like this by a man, that basically says men are wrong for wanting what they want, and say this guy gets it. He understands. But if a woman made a post that says men have valid reasons for wanting what they want that woman is called a "pick me." But ladies, if a man is right for agreeing with what you say, why can't a woman also be right for agreeing with what men say? And I'll speak on number 7. Men and women are both usually vague when they're involved with someone and the topic of past sexual partners comes up. Women are vague because they know having a higher number diminishes their value. And men are vague because they know having a number that's lower diminishes their value. Now before you say that's not true look at all the guys that are virgins that can't get a woman to give them the time of day. Then look at the guys who've slept with tons of women that have a new woman (who knows their history) lined up to sleep with them tonight. If women really wanted men who haven't been with a lot of women these virgin guys would have women in their DM's regularly. If a woman finds out the handsome guy she's talking to is inept with women and instead of hooking up with actual women he's jacking off with his sex doll every night she'll get the "ick." But if a guy finds out the beautiful woman he's talking to isn't with guys at night and she's masturbating alone in her room he won't look at her in a negative light. He might actually feel he's lucky to have found her. So no women aren't just expected to be more mature. It's just a fact that women value experience in men while men value purity in women. It is what it is.

RootingRound · 2022-10-05T05:16:50+00:00

You might be misunderstanding. The chance for extra pair mating is not a reason why a man should value a low number of previous sexual partners, it's an explanation for why men generally do so.

You seem to attempt to deny a couple of basic things without being properly able to name them, and refer to what appears to be random blogs rather than research.

So: Men tend to have a preference for a lower amount of previous sexual partners in a long term partner. This seems to be partially explained by the fact that previous sexual partners is a predictor for extra pair mating.

Women tend not to exhibit the same degree of preference, and show a stronger degree of partner choice mimicking than men, meaning that women would rather go after a man who is popular with other women, than one who is not. This is also a recognized effect.

For both of these, patriarchy is an excessively poor theoretical framework for explaining it.

redback-spider · 2022-10-05T12:46:42+00:00

I have no religious reason, not even disgust reason, I would not even care that a women don't stays with me as long because I don't want children. But purely logical because man have absolutely no reproduction rights positive or negative (except die as virgin) or maybe put hot souce into condomn or take it away flush it down, buy it yourself so she can't tamper etc, not 1 time in their live sleep with out a condomn and hope it never breaks.

And all the other sexist laws, that the risk is just 100% logically on the males site, so because that is the case, you either refuse to play the game or play extremely risk averse. If the risk is total destruction a 1million dollar bill or more for a child you did not want, if I can reduce the risk of that happen by 1% I take it, if that means having a few months less sex or a lower body count. Be it that way.

If women want not to be "judged" or less by proscimiouty change the mysandric laws go for pussy hat demonstrations to fight for equal rights for man, and getting rid of the one sided sexist laws that benefit 99% only women.

If I also get a (financial) abortion right, I am all for sleeping with high body count women. (your body your choice, my wallet my choice).

Praymyexdies2 · 2022-10-04T21:31:50+00:00

Touching a woman's body where another man's dick has been is in fact gay.

risdeveau · 2022-10-04T22:30:11+00:00

Men don’t need indoctrination to care about n count

They just don’t like used sex stuff and never have

hungrychick404 · 2022-10-04T18:49:03+00:00

I agree with all of your points. However, I think there are some instances where people can prefer someone with a lower body count. For example, I know a lot of people who intentionally and purposefully waited for marriage and wanted someone else who also waited for marriage, or at least recommitted to abstinence until marriage.

What I have a problem with is people (usually men) who have had a sexual history being hypocritical about wanting someone with a low body count while they have a high one themselves. If you have a high body count or even tried to participate in hookup culture, it’s unfair to expect to end up with someone who avoided it while you have not.

KirthWGersen · 2022-10-04T17:55:45+00:00

It all depends on what your goals are.

It has been common knowledge since prehistoric times that the more promiscuous a women before she got with you, the more likely she is to be promiscuous in the future. Past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour. Some men would have happily taken the bargain in return for a woman with beauty and a high sex drive. Also, some men don't particularly care about monogamy.

People have always known that some women are great at making babies, others at looking after babies, and all sorts somewhere in between. Just as women have known the same about men. Go into relationships with your eyes open, enjoy the benefits and accept the consequences. There is no one way of living your life.

Today we have contraception, DNA tests and modern medicine. There really is very little to worry about about, unless you want a lifelong monogamous relationship or something akin to marriage. Then you have to compromise. Or lie to yourself and think your relationship is something it is not and get burned. But everyone is free to be an idiot if they want to be.

Mobrowncheeks · 2022-10-04T18:09:24+00:00

It doesn’t matter if it’s exclusive to sex or each gender. Men who are looking for romantic sexual partners specify think she may have baggage. And that has nothing to do with other mens baggage.
Her sexual health isn’t my responsibility. Why get her tested when I can just not date her.
Outliers don’t make the rule. The average man doesn’t want promiscuous women and you and porn stars are outliers. And you know that.
None of us alive today set the social standards when we got here. Having a good social standing is important to an extent, and the extent being something as simple as investing into a partner that represents you well is no foul.
What makes you think that I have to work on my individual feelings so that some individual promiscuous women can get a partner, when she can just be with a guy like you, and I can find a partner who I feel more secure in.
Women don’t like men who sleep around because they sleep around, they like attractive men despite them sleeping around, I agree. Just because women accept promiscuous men doesn’t mean that men are less then.

8.

vogel777 · 2022-10-05T00:58:02+00:00

OP you're too good for this sub.

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teball3 · 2022-10-04T19:27:47+00:00

I mostly agree with you, but this is a CMV post.

The thing I find to be the biggest stand out is the false equivalencies. The most obvious one is the racist ED example there. Yes, that is a man who has emotional problems that need to be addressed, but that comparison is hyperbole to an extreme degree. Of course, there are emotions that are not justifiable, but there also are ones that are. If a man's partner came home and berated, belittled, and emasculated him in an obviously emotionally abusive way, the problem there wouldn't be that his emotions are weak and they need to be addressed and worked through. Your argument seems to be that men's opinion on a promiscuous past are real, but not valid. Valid here meaning that their existence comes from a sound place, and they're reasonable to act on.

So my defense is this: If there is any single reason that justifies the existence of emotions they create, and we are to respect men as equals whose feelings are important, then those feelings should be enough for a man to decide his preferences, and more than that, his choices in a partner, for himself.

I believe this same level of vigor is equally applicable to your "racist ED" example, because there is NO justification for racism, therefore the emotions are NOT valid. Meanwhile if we looked at something else, like a partner's weight, it is completely acceptable on the same basis because of the health risks validate the aversion to it.

So, is there a single reason that makes the feelings of aversion to promiscuity valid? I would argue that you are right for points 1-3. It does not equate to baggage, STD's can be separately tested for, and arguments from evolutionary biology are bogus. However, you cannot deny that we live in a society. A society, with ideas about masculinity and femininity. Furthermore, that these ideas about Masculinity and Femininity shape the way people value each other, and that while this is unfair and bullshit, it has very real effects on our lives. I would argue that this is the crux for why I say men's feelings are valid. Because I do not think it is fair to say that every man should be duty bound to combat and try to destroy every societal construct that shouldn't exist. That should be left to the individual to choose what battles they are comfortable fighting to help combat against an unjust society.

I would say that because it should be his own choice whether or not he wants to fight the tides of societal opinion on promiscuity = bad, that even if promiscuity being bad is bullshit, he is still justified in his feelings and valid. Furthermore, that anytime someone has a valid emotional reason to not engage in a relationship, that is reason enough to justify the preference, and that we should not consider it a fault or moral failing of the person in question.

2022-10-04T21:32:29+00:00

So here is my thoughts on this, yes the redpill folks go overboard with studies but idc about studies myself. So what if I am insecure, I don't need to work on it or get rid off. Humans don't have to get rid off all their insecurities. Insecurities aren't the problem with society it's like blaming mental illness on mass shooting. Off topic pair bonding isn't a silly term it's a real thing. You do realize there is a concept called social monogamy in which two mates are deeply intertwined and have extramarital partners. But this strategy evolved because nature is brutal man, high mortality rates in young and multiple parents increases chance of offsprings survivability. Plus there are other thoeries like female animals have extramarital relationships to avoid infanticide. But modern humans don't really have to worry about those things as much, baby mortality rates are lower now and co-parenting offers alternative solution than relying exclusively on sex partners for childcare. I also want to say I am not going to shame women or come up with reason on how promiscuity is destroying society but rather I can critical of hook up culture and how it became popular. I have a theory which I do have strong feeling is correct but I am going to need to do research.

LadyofTheGreyPath · 2022-10-05T01:17:55+00:00

No offense, you seem like a nice person and all, but this is the wrong fucking sub for you hun.

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Title	How the Red Pill indoctrinates young men and dismissing the " reasons " to not engage with women who were promiscuous in the past.
Author	Altruistic_Mud7925
Upvotes	0
Comments	176
Date	October 4, 2022 5:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xvkel9/how_the_red_pill_indoctrinates_young_men_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-the-red-pill-indoctrinates-young-men-and.1135107 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135107

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