Humans are not naturally monogamous and the proof is absurdly simple

rosephase · 2021-11-08T18:03:34+00:00

Polyamory is also a choice. All relationship structures are social constructs.

Polygamy is multiple marriages. Marriage is obviously a social construct.

LalaTheSecond · 2021-11-08T18:15:26+00:00

People are different. Some people like monogamy, some don't. The number of men I find attractive is much larger than the number of men I would actually have sex with because many men don't fit my values. Being picky actually constrains me to monogamy.

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-11-08T18:56:34+00:00

Pair bonding is an evolved human trait. Its pretty self evident in how we pair up, how we mate guard, and how we act with partners. The fact love exists does coincide with this idea.

And I say this as a non-monogamous person. The desire for extra relationship sex is real, the desire for new partners over time is real, its evolved too. You don't put all your eggs (and sperm) in one basket for maximum results.

End result is we, as a species are loving and pair bonding and like "mate for life birds" we cheat a lot too. Being we are smart we can work out ways around this, we can enforce monogamy directly by legal means, go my route of sport fucking, try polygamy which is also natural when men are scarce, or even try to rationalize polyamory which tends to be a cluster fuck in the long run.

The problem that people commonly have is they don't understand evolutionary psychology. Their education on genetics ended with eye color and peas. Mendelian at best.

What we have in humans (and all creatures have) is evolutionary stable strategies (ESS). Not all people will have the same genetic proclivities.

For most pair bonding and sticking together is the norm, I would argue polygamy is the norm too as men tend to die more especially in ancient times.

As long as a method results in some offspring every generation it can perpetuate.

Basically cheating, cuckolding, etc are all evolved things done because they work, if only in small numbers.

Basically everything sexual in the end is "natural" its just the ratios. Hell there are even theories for why homosexuality exists as an ESS but that is another topic for another time.

relish5k · 2021-11-08T18:31:58+00:00

Monogamy is absolutely natural. Falling in love with someone is natural, becoming infatuated with that person is natural. When you are in love, you want to spend as much time as possible with that one person, it is natural that a monogamous relationship would ensue. We are also hard-wired to pursue secure emotional attachments, which are easier to establish if you are not concerned that your partner will up and abandon you for another.

It makes sense that nature provides all of these levers for monogamy, as it is an excellent way to raise children. But the biological incentives are more geared for serial monogamy, and less so towards life-long monogamy. Life long monogamy still has compelling benefits and one could see the reason for it on a social-evolutionary level - after all, people banging eachother's spouses is not a good way to maintain group cohesion, so life-long monogamy can minimize conflict.

But humans are complex. We want to have our cake and eat it to. We want a partner who will be faithful to us, while we have the full gamut of options for ourselves. We want a society where everybody else happily knows their place, while we can maintain options and flexibility.

Traditional-Worth295 · 2021-11-08T18:20:53+00:00

I’m demisexual and have never wanted to be with anyone other than my partner; I’m just wired that way and always have been.

pearllovespink · 2021-11-08T18:37:27+00:00

I have no issue being monogamous. Neither does my parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc. I don’t have a problem with those in open or poly relationships but try not to push your views on to others.

januaryphilosopher · 2021-11-08T18:21:59+00:00

There are a lot of people in the world for whom sexual attraction to people other than their partner is non-existent or negligible. (I'd say that I belong to the "non-existent" category although that's presumably rare.) Attraction is generally something that grows as you get closer to someone. If you see more benefits to just staying with one partner over having sex with others who you may be attracted to less, and pursue that as a choice, congratulations, you're naturally monogamous.

Frylock904 · 2021-11-08T18:23:56+00:00

Whatever humans do is "natural" if there's a an uptick in murders because people are jealous and die more during hightened polygamous societies, then that's natural (hypothetically)

Novadina · 2021-11-08T18:29:03+00:00

I do actually think it is a social construct, but that doesn’t mean everyone is “forcing” themselves to do it. For example, wearing clothing in public is a social construct. Yet I would feel immense embarrassment if I were to step outside naked, or even topless, it would feel like pure instinct to not do it, even though I know it’s 100% a social more - it’s not even the same globally. I have even had nightmares where I show up somewhere and realize I forgotten to dress my top half, or even just forgot my bra!

Also, everyone has different preferences. Some people are more inclined towards monogamy than others. I’ve always been pretty naturally monogamous, because I’m a bit obsessive in nature. In all parts of my life I tend to get hyper focused on single things at a time, including men. Even when I was seeing a man just casually and there was no expectation of monogamy, I had no desire to sleep with additional men as the one was satisfying me. I’ve been with my husband for 15 years and the thought of sleeping with another man now seems gross, even if I was attracted to someone I don’t have the desire to actually have sex with them.

superlurkage · 2021-11-08T19:19:37+00:00

Rape, widespread murder and tons of other types of death is also part of a natural existence. Should we reembrace all of that too?

Additionally, you have erroneously concluded that thoughts should equal actions

LowCreddit · 2021-11-08T20:49:45+00:00

Cheating is common in monogamous species. Scientists even have a phrase for it, extra-pair copulation. In fact, for cheating to even exist, monogamy has to as well. There is even a case to be made that humans are the most monogamous mammals on Earth. Genetic studies to determine the extra-pair offspring chance for humans has been squashed after a (Denmark?) study found the EPO for a dozen hospitals to be under 10%.

JessicaMandarin · 2021-11-08T19:25:15+00:00

We don’t really have evidence to say that earlier humans were only polyamorous. I’m sure many people were but there could be some people that were monogamous. We don’t really know.

CFinCanada · 2021-11-08T20:39:43+00:00

And?

Not stabbing someone with a spear when they annoy you isn't natural either. You can always move in with the tropical tribe that practises both if you're looking to keep it natural? Don't forget to stick your face in the woman's armpit hair.

Barneysparky · 2021-11-08T23:31:49+00:00

Married over 20 years, never felt lust for another man.

Senzatie3579 · 2021-11-08T23:32:00+00:00

Pointless discussion, humans are also killers. 1/3 people used to die to violence at some point.

Humans are whatever allows them to thrive all things considered. Polygamous societies have major league downsides and they usually degenerate into violence and chaos.

It's not fun watching brad pitt fuck 1000 women a year with 0 effort realizing you'll never even get a girlfriend.

Monogamy is FAR more sustainable for the vast majority of people.

Fit-Photograph1646 · 2021-11-09T01:02:00+00:00

Yep humans are just naturally violent too. Let's just go plinder our neighbors every 6 days like the old times.

Willow-girl · 2021-11-09T04:16:18+00:00

I believe that monogamy is a social construct.

So is shitting in porcelain fixtures, but some things are just good ideas ...

once you are in a forced monogamous relationship like an LTR or marriage, you don't just magically stop seeing other people as sexually attractive.

Yeah, actually that's how it works for at least some of us.

Fabulous-Housing102 · 2021-11-08T18:02:36+00:00

Married and in a relationship over 10 years. I can appreciate attractive people but i certainly don’t fancy them anymore.

King8Kaista · 2021-11-08T18:39:34+00:00

I believe both are true, but each only to a certain gender. I think women are naturally supposed to be monogamous while men are naturally supposed to be polygamous. Hence, men's natural subconscious desire to impregnate every single attractive women they encounter, (which consciously comes off as just wanting to fuck them) accompanied by their ability to actually do so. Our body doesn't produce semen at that fast of a rate for no reason. While women absolutely don't think about fucking every attractive male they see. Instead, they want to attain a relationship with the most attractive guy they know. Not to be mutually sexually exclusive because he could fuck any women he wants outside of their relationship without actually cheating, but so he can provide & protect her and their family while she surrenders her body only to him because that's how men & women show commitment. But of course, in today's society it's considered cheating when a man has sex with a women outside of his relationship, but sex for a man is just an urge just like the urge to piss. Sex is extremely different for women, it's an emotional thing. That's why women LEAVE the relationship with the guy they're cheating on for the guy they're cheating with because she emotionally intrigued by him. Men can fuck a hundred women and still come back home to his queen whom he's committed to. Men & women show commitment in different ways.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2021-11-08T19:07:56+00:00

Appeals to nature are ridiculous and the proof is absurdly simple: it's not natural to shit sitting down in a toilet, and yet...

Whether a quality is "natural" is almost meaningless.

Further, for this argument to be more compelling on its own terms, i.e. support the notion that monogamy is "unnatural," you'd have to also show that impulse control is also "unnatural." The existence of sexual attraction in human nature to multiple people alone is insufficient.

Edit:

Why is this in the automod?

The first point is that generally, appeals to nature are uncompelling. The second point, however, is that, this appeal to nature is incomplete because impulse control is very natural to the human species.

Puzzleheaded-Lab-165 · 2021-11-08T22:27:10+00:00

Hypergamy and polygamy are both destroying westerner civilization

https://dominant-male.blogspot.com/2011/09/hypergamy-vs-polygamy.html?fbclid=IwAR0bYYIIpcvzBct7tgi9dIvNXG5pEYuSASQbNvAzu6E12LQABHndUmyU6V8&m=1

Lateralanouncer · 2021-11-09T01:03:32+00:00

We need to stop this feminist frame that social constructs such as marriage monogamy jealousy even sex identity and etc are bad. Unless we want to de evolve to mear fight flight and fuck. What happens when men start acting without impulse control.

hardallthetime666 · 2021-11-08T18:09:36+00:00

Men are polygamous. Women are serially monogamous. Which isn't monogamy per se, but women benefit more from receiving investment to ensure that their child survives until at least adolescence.

Emervila · 2021-11-08T18:24:30+00:00

false

Nor monogamy nor Polygamy are "natural" on humans: it's a choice.

Humans have rationality which overrides both poly and mono, so there's no "natural" option. Our rational option is to do what best for the community interest

Monogamy is not the natural choice but the rational one by organizing and taking accountability on reproduction humans were able to develop to our pic beyond any other race because we found the way to preserve and guarantee our offspring. Is this same "social construction" that allows you now to point the finger against the system that gave you such free and built it.

Poly is the weakness and less reasonable options that's why single motherhood is such problems for tax payers and social development indicators because it's not about just mating but reproduction involves taking care of the off-spring

sarkington · 2021-11-08T18:01:51+00:00

We’re also supposed to shit and give birth in a squatting position, but that’s not convenient for society, so we don’t do much of that either

The argument from nature fallacy is just that

funlightmandarin · 2021-11-08T18:04:35+00:00

Are demisexuals naturally monogamous then?

I mean, everyone's a non-sexual NPC for all I care, except my partner. I can see that people have very pleasing faces, but that's mostly a matter of appreciating the mathematics of the face and symmetry rather than my vagina tingling.

The_Dayne · 2021-11-08T18:38:08+00:00

The desire to have a partner is a natural instinct. How you go about it is a personal choice. General conventions of a relationship are the social construct. Marriage, dating, courting, etc.

I don't believe polyamory is an instinct. If it were, a majority of people wouldn't feel guilt when considering sleeping with others and the act of polyamory would be more widespread. Most people I know who practice polyamory aren't in love with their multiple partners, they have a primary partner and sleep with others to fulfill desire. Fulfilling desire isn't love. Furthermore, it is easy for others to lose their appeal if you are in a strong relationship with someone you love. It isn't that others are no longer sexually attractive, it's that you no longer see them in the same light you see your love. Which transcends basic sexual urge.

This whole post posits we are simply reactive animals. Which is far from the truth. Consciousness has more depth than action-reaction.

Booexgirlfriend · 2021-11-08T20:38:50+00:00

If you believe that monogamy is a social construct then you should question yourself why it was "invented". It works just not for everyone and is ok.

Sexual attraction fades with time. Faithfulness has something more to do with each person's values and companionship becomes a priority as we get old.

I'm pro-monogamy and I have nothing against people who aren't monogamous. I think the reason why I'm in favor of monogamy is because it works for me.

I like the tranquility, stability, and the non-pursuit of something new every day that monogamy brings. It helps me to concentrate on other subjects of life instead of "who's next".

Chaos_and_Horny · 2021-11-08T21:54:16+00:00

Just because someone get attracted to other people in a relationship, it doesnt mean that monogamy isnt natural. Natural is everything that there ever was and is. There are poeple who fall in love hard and wont care about anyone else. What about this situation? There is no definition. Anthropologists claimed that we are both monogamous or poly.

acornfroggie · 2021-11-09T03:04:00+00:00

>I think the proof of this is exceedingly simple: once you are in a forced monogamous relationship like an LTR or marriage, you don't just magically stop seeing other people as sexually attractive.

Yes you do. I was extremely surprised when I read what your "proof" was. Of course you stop seeing people as physically attractive. Sexual attraction is for 1 person in a lifetime.

>I believe that people who claim that they are not sexually attracted to anyone else while in a monogamous relationship are lying.

Hurrdurrrr people who go against my obviously stupid statement are um... I can't prove them wrong so they are... just lying... uh yeah man.

I've never been sexually attracted to anyone else in my life. What do you have to say to that?

AutoModerator · 2021-11-08T17:59:08+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

wtknight · 2021-11-08T19:02:07+00:00

Women want men to be monogamous because it means that all of his resources and teaching of masculine skills will be devoted to her offspring. Men lean towards monogamy because, when he is mostly loyal to one woman and their offspring, his genes are more likely to survive. On the other hand, finding women on the side sometimes would mean his genes have a additional chance through illegitimate children, so this is why men are also attracted to other women while mostly being attracted to their current partner.

Women largely won’t be as attracted to other men if they are happy with their current partner (although they do like to have backups sometimes if their man screws up, or they sometimes want to branch swing), so they tend to act more monogamously, with serial monogamy being their usual worst case behavior.

So people overall tend to be monogamous because it means the best chance for their genes to survive, but there are evolutionary reasons for potential non-monogamous behavior.

wtknight · 2021-11-08T19:02:40+00:00

Flaired as CMV as this is an affirmative claim.

chubbybutt22 · 2021-11-08T19:06:55+00:00

You can see other people as attractive and still be monogamous.

xcheshirecatxx · 2021-11-08T19:12:09+00:00

I find a lot of people attractive, but I don't want to be with them.

Not having stds is nice

UrFoodMolestedMyNose · 2021-11-08T23:58:10+00:00

Anthropologically speaking humans have biological features suggesting a history of both. Males have relatively small testicles suggesting a more monogamous life history.

However the male human penis is thought to have its shape in order to scope out sperm of other men out of a females vagina.

I think humans are both. Its depends on the individual. If monogamy isn’t for you, live that truth. But it’s is certainly far from the truth for many people.

ModernPolygamy · 2021-11-09T00:38:41+00:00

As a polygamist, I would have to disagree. There is natural instinct and choice involved with monogamy or polygamy. It entirely depends on the individual.

Some people (male or female) are much more fulfilled in a polygamous relationship, while other people could only be happy in a monogamous relationship.

What you use to argue the case ("cheating on their SO, engaging in open relationships") I would argue represent people not built for a committed relationship, whether it be monogamous or polygamous...or who have partners/relationships that are not fulfilling.

Lameador · 2021-11-10T16:40:26+00:00

Monogamy is a social construct I agree. Except that humans are a social species, so society is part of the human nature. Monogamy is one of the enforced social rules that most societies, and especially most successfull societies, have put upon themselves, because of the collective benefits of widespread monogamy are perceived as big enough to coerce scociety members into being monogamous.

Human are naturally rivals, and could be tempted to solve their conflicts through lethal violence. Yet all societies banned murder, with usually a great level of success even if the rule is sometimes broken.

Think of monogamy as a speed limit on the road. The benefit of the speed limit is not that it prevents you from using your engine to drive faster. It's that it prevents others from endangering you by driving at unsafe speeds.

BadRevolutionary3034 · 2021-11-10T22:50:46+00:00

Right, so I'm just gonna adopt a baby because I find it cute too? 🙄

Idk how many times we have to tell you guys the SAME thing.

Polygamy is natural for the top 10%, Genghis Khan, etc. It's not natural for the bottom 90%. You're not getting a harem because you simply cannot support a harem.

Humans are not naturally monogamous and the proof is absurdly simple

Social Monogamy

Genetic Monogamy

Title	Humans are not naturally monogamous and the proof is absurdly simple
Author	Neocarnage
Upvotes	0
Comments	97
Date	November 8, 2021 5:59 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/qpj4yd/humans_are_not_naturally_monogamous_and_the_proof/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/humans-are-not-naturally-monogamous-and-the-proof.1085213 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085213