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if women value looks more than men(according to this sub) why are older male yoounger female couples much more common than the reverse?

June 30, 2022
61 upvotes

obviously someone in the 18-30 range on average is more likely to be attractive than anyone older, but women even if they are older usually go for someone same or around the same age as them,and a considerabel minority go for noticeably older whereas going for younger is rare. do men acually value facial attractiveness more than women but lie to themselves? some of them even bash older women just because they happened to exist and not die off.

before anyone brings that outdated okcupid study, it is not only old and outdated, but most people don't use dating apps, especially before 2010, and there are like 5x men than women in those dating apps, it's not a reflection of real life, in real life i see many average guys with average and even pretty women, and even ugly guys with younger and prettier women, the reverse almost never happens.

i think men, at least facially, value beauty more, as a woman who prefers exclusively pretty men, i think i'm in the minority.

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Post Information
Title if women value looks more than men(according to this sub) why are older male yoounger female couples much more common than the reverse?
Author kokorwqac
Upvotes 61
Comments 269
Date June 30, 2022 1:53 PM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-women-value-looks-more-than-menaccording-to.1121964
https://theredarchive.com/post/1121964
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vo8yl2/if_women_value_looks_more_than_menaccording_to/
Comments

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 82 points83 points  (102 children) | Copy Link

Women value looks just as much as men, if not more than men, when it comes to casual sex. But when it’s about LTRs, women will settle for less attractive men if they are skilled, wealthy and more likely to be faithful. Men on the other hand still value looks in their LTRs.

The only women who date younger attractive guys, are old rich woman who don’t give a shit about stability and don’t plan to get more children. But these guys are more likely to be long term boy toys, rather than respected partners.

[–]Rafael758 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Casual sex decreases your worth as a woman in most mens eyes that's why you can't even compare that.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In men’s eyes, promiscuity lowers women‘s value for LTRs but not for casual sex. That doesn’t stand in the way of the comparison I made.

[–]Puzzleheaded_Bet72941 points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link

This is it right here. Very well said. Beta cuck men are fortunate enough to get used when a women wants an LTR. But men will invariably value looks in a woman

[–]kokorwqac[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

so the issue is they go for ''sluttier'' women instead of modest women, who will not be open to casual sex.

[–]Puzzleheaded_Bet72941 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Sorry could you be more clear? Who is “it” in this case? If you mean men, that might be true for casual sex, but for LTR’s men definitely value chastity in a woman. No guy wants to be with the town doormat. And women for LTR’s want a stable guy they can show off to their family and friends who will make her feel safe and secure

[–]kokorwqac[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

usually, ''chaste'' women won't fuck at your first date, and they value personality more than looks.

[–]RearwindowPinecone -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but he should also be fine with being cheated on and raising other mens kids,finally he should protect her during his divorce

[–]RearwindowPinecone 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

as long as he doesnt complain being cheated on or " dead bedroom" or "divorce raped"

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

So youre saying women cheat more? Hmmm

[–]RearwindowPinecone 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

no,im saying when women settle,its a lose lose situation

[–]sarkington 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone can be so reasonable when they want to be

[–]JMoon331 points [recovered] (30 children) | Copy Link

The only women who date young attractive guys, are old rich woman

What planet do you live on lmao

Most young attractive guys are dating young attractive women.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Try reading that comment again in the context of OP‘s question.

[–]JMoon331 points [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link

I did, and your comment is still a complete lie lol

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I did not say that young guys only date old woman. I said the only woman who date younger guys are old rich women, explaining why that scenario is only rarely seen. If you tried to follow the argument I was making in the comment you should have been able to figure that out.

[–]DLtheGreat808 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He’s saying that if a older woman is dating a younger man, she is most likely rich and is using him like a toy. He’s not saying young men normally date older woman.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

because man peak at late 30s,40s,50s...etc and young attractive women gonna line up and chase these old dudes🤣

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Last time i was single at 38 I had more pussy than a toilet seat. 10-15 per month. The pool of woman exspands as we age. 😆 🤣 😂 😹

[–]RearwindowPinecone 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

sure as long as you pay

[–]RearwindowPinecone 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

vice versa,the old rich guy pays the sugar relationship also knows it

[–]tonyghow 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men on the other hand still value looks in their LTRs.

Plenty of men settle for less attractive women.

A less attractive woman who is passionate, sexual, attentive, sweet and kind is far better than a pretty women who doesn't have those qualities.

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 5 points6 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

settle

No, it's not fucking settle.

The bar is higher for relationships and a lot of attractive men don't meet the bar.

[–]OvalTownship 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's just a copout you and other females have come up with to cope with the fact that you couldn;t get you attractive hookup guy to commit to you lmao

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's not enough good quality attractive guys to fail to get one to commit.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

The bar for looks isn’t higher, hence settle. The bar for other qualities is higher.

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 4 points5 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

It's not settling.

For casual sex, the other qualities (well most of them) aren't relevant. "OH, you would do 50/50 everything if we lived together?", that doesn't bloody matter. It doesn't matter.

In a relationship that does matter. You can be a 10/10 and I'm not dating you if that means paying 50/50, yet doing 100/0 of the household. Not happening.

Refusing to settle on what's important in order to get hotter guys, isn't settling on looks.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Your are settling on looks, so you don’t have to settle on the qualities that are important to you. It’s a simple and logical trade-off to make and I’m not making a moral judgement on it.

Why does the word settle bother you?

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely, you want to start a family with a broke hot guy. Hmm No. Common sense. Especially for women over 28 or 30. Im talking women raised well.

[–]daddysgotanew 9 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Lol said every single mom ever 🤣

[–]Short-FingersPurple Pill Man 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gah so true and I hate it

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

These are more broken women and lesser for high value. High value women are intelligent so less likely to rely on this trait alone

[–]RearwindowPinecone 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

the good news is a lot of beta bucks is happy to raise that broke hot guys kids with her no matter this beta bucks knows it nor not

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Well those arent high value women. Probably hot but raised in a broken home.

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't want to start a family.

[–]cruciodcareer-driven feminist bper👩‍🔬👩‍💻 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only women who date young attractive guys, are old rich woman who don’t give a shit about stability and don’t plan to get more children

... And the obvious pairing with young attractive women?

Young men and young women getting together is far far more common than young women and old men.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t dispute that.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

so the issue is they go for ''sluttier'' women instead of modest women, who will not be open to casual sex.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Men have a much lower bar for what they consider attractive, than women. Men would absolutely go for more modest women - but as you say, they probably won’t be open to it.

[–]AcanthocephalaNew947 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why would a modest women not respond positively to a man wanting a relationship with her.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Modest women and promiscuous women don’t differ in their sexual attraction. They just choose to act differently on it when it comes to casual sex for various reasons.

So both modest woman and a promiscuous woman will respond positively to a man wanting a LTR if he fulfills the requirements stated in my first comment. He’ll still have to be above a certain threshold of attractiveness though - the threshold just isn’t as high as for casual sex.

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, men have a lower bar because of the need for SEX, not necessarily for commitment

[–]SmakeTalk -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

While you're definitely right here I just hate the term "settle" when we're talking about only one aspect of a full person.

Is the guy they marry less physically attractive? Maybe, but if she married the more handsome guy she's likely settling in so many other ways. It's the same for men as well, nobody wants a person with a singularly great trait.

They're not settling for a less attractive man, they're choosing him because he has more to offer her than just his appearance. Choosing the handsome guy with nothing else to offer is settling.

[–]dbz19_kai 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They use them for sex and drop them as soon as they get bored. I wouldn’t even call it a relationship. More like a trophy boyfriend or fuckbuddy

[–]Stunning-Potato-1984 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to say something really controversial here. People want to be attracted to their partners.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

not for sugar relationship

[–]Stunning-Potato-1984 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's not a romantic relationship though. It's a business arrangement.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

agree on that

[–]rivetcitymayorManly-pretty-Boy 18 points19 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

One thing I realize is that the female users always notice couples where the woman is more attractive and male users notice the opposite . It’s probably 50/50 in real life

[–]kokorwqac[S] 7 points8 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

well a younger person is more attractive, and younger female x old male is much more common than the reverse.

[–]rivetcitymayorManly-pretty-Boy 11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s always the female users who also say women date within their age range and guys are delusional if they think they will be able to attract a younger woman.

Most women I’ve dated were younger but that didn’t make them more attractive than me solely based on that. We looked bout the same age anyway lol

[–]Itsknowntohappen1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

All my serious relationships, they’ve been older technically. Still, the most was 4yrs so I refer to them as within my age range. Everyone thinks I look younger than I am, so people thought the age gap was more like 8yrs-ish rather than what it was. Good genes here.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

i'd date teenager guys if i had better genes :(( (18-20)

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it doesn't make people more attractive solely based on that, however, a younger face most of the time is prettier than an older one, especially if it's with white people(who, i suspect are the majority of people posting there and generally have even higher preference for younger women than other groups)

[–]ObviousRascal 5 points6 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I think it's about 50/50 on that too. I think people just don't recognize the older woman younger man couple AS a couple unless there's some PDA. Ive been both the older and younger, people usually thought my older partner was my sister or even mother or aunt. Nobody ever really thought we were a couple. But when I was the older I sometimes got mistook for an older brother but 9 out of ten it was recognized as a romantic relationship.

I think people like older partners because they are usually more stable and are more likely to have their shit together and already know what they want in life. Measuring attractiveness is tricky. What I find attractive you may find unattractive and vice versa. So I can't really agree with any of the whole this gender only focuses on looks nonsense. Some people certainly do. But I've been asked on dates because I was a husky fella just as often as I've bee. Shot down because of it. Humanity is just too varied in this instance I think.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

i seen a 20 year old female online friend of mine date an 15 year old, but you are seriously bluepilled on men's nature if you think they wouldn't find an 15 year old attractive at 20 or even 40 about 10x more than the women that would.

[–]ObviousRascal 5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Not blue pilled at all. Men are more vocal about what attracts them then women are. I'm a man and have no doubt some dudes may find a 15yr old attractive, knowing full well that individual is 15. But they are not a majority. I've also seen plenty of women creep on boys and nobody batted an eye. I could argue 15yr old boys are more in danger than their female counterparts because nobody cares. But those creep ass women are not a majority either. My point is you can't judge half of humanity from a few asshole creeps, you can be wary for sure but saying a whole gender is...well..misogyny or misandry depending on which gender your shitting on.

[–]DTOLFPurple Pill Man 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So I can't really agree with any of the whole this gender only focuses on looks nonsense.

But I've been asked on dates because I was a husky fella just as often as I've bee. Shot down because of it.

That means, whether you got a date or whether you were rejected, it always came down to your looks. Saying that Gender X values looks doesn’t mean they all have the same opinion on what’s attractive.

[–]ObviousRascal 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, initially it is looks based for EVERYONE. Humans are visual creatures. We see something that catches our fancy then we investigate. If its a thing we may try to buy it, if it's food we may try to eat it. If your favorite food was say garlic bread and then that bread was made to look exactly like dog shit, even if it smelled like garlic bread still, you probably wouldn't want it. Humans are visual creatures. Some people like fatasses like myself, some people are grossed out by them. Yes it always comes down to looks when your trying to find a mate, you don't walk around sniffing them do you? And unless your blind their sound probably won't be a factor at first.

[–]Salt_Mathematician24Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Average age gap is 2.2 years roughly. Men are usually older on average but you would be suprised the amount of older women/younger men relationships, its not like 1%, its a pretty fair portion.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i'm not saying it never happens, i had a friend at 20 who had a boyfriend that was 15(online) myself, but if women cared about looks as much as this sub pretended they did wouldn't they demand 30 or younger men when they were ''post-wall'' themselves?

i also a lot of women who look underage use it to their advantage and gain attention and fetishization, i don't ever see men who get attention from women because they look underage, it's usually either teen girls or gay men who like guys like them

[–]Salt_Mathematician24Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's because femininity is a set of social characteristics assigned to women and femininity is often infantilized, with the expectation to be submissive and dainty.

[–]sarkington 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yah, we like learning

[–]pearllovespink 18 points19 points  (71 children) | Copy Link

Women marry men for stability, not for looks. I’ve repeated this multiple times on here and y’all are still running with this false narrative.

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Women marry men for stability, not for looks

*If they can't secure the alpha

[–]pearllovespink 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

People in general should only marry for financially reasons. I don’t know one woman pushing to marry a broke man.

I also didn’t know the only qualification for an alpha man is to have a good career.

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

People in general should only marry for financially reasons

I've been become dis-enchanted with the idea of marriage for a while now but even I think that's a terrible idea.

[–]pearllovespink 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Marriage is a contract. You should look at it from a legal prospective.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also didn’t know the only qualification for an alpha man is to have a good career.

no,its the beta who raises the alphas kid,but he is a good step father

[–]RearwindowPinecone -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

People in general should only marry for financially reasons. I don’t know one woman pushing to marry a broke man.

yes,i agree but then the married man will complain cheated on with the broke hot man or raising his kids

[–]panzershark 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I haven’t been jaded by life yet, or maybe I’m an outlier of some kind, but I honestly don’t care a ton about how much a man makes?? There’s probably a threshold there if I’m being honest, but I think part of that also has more to do with me preferring a partner who has some ambition and drive to excel. My ex made less than me. Maybe like $40-50k (which some will say is not much), and I was totally fine with the idea that I’d eventually be making double that. I loved him for his drive to do well in his career and desire to learn more and be the best. I want to have MY own stability. I have no desire to lay around at home and be a stay at home wife. That sounds boring and unfulfilling as shit.

Stability is important. But I care more about stability in the sense that I want a partnership where we support each others’ goals and just… get to enjoy life together. I honestly don’t know if I would want to date a lawyer/businessman/surgeon type because our personalities wouldn’t mesh. Maybe it’s just people from those fields that I’ve met.

I honestly don’t even know what “alpha” means anymore. It seems like men call it one thing and women call it another. I don’t know who’s right anymore, but sometimes it seems like “alpha” is synonymous with “ultra chad douchebag.” No thank you.

[–]pearllovespink 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me it’s more so not wanting to be the breadwinner of the household. I think that’s a man’s job. I’m not trying to be stuck with the majority of the bills as a woman. It will eventually effect the dynamic of the relationship.

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

My ex made less than me

Why is he your ex?

[–]UsamaBinLadenPill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you and I would like to point out the circular argument.

The "unstable" men are derided as "fuckbois" and then sour-graped reasoned to herself and the beta as "not desirable" when he finds out about her past.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 6 points7 points  (42 children) | Copy Link

the bad news for this kind of man is that beta bucks should be fine with cheated on or "dead bedroom" or raising other mens kids or "divorce raped",the good news is nowadays average man cant afford to beta bucks

[–]pearllovespink 2 points3 points  (41 children) | Copy Link

None of those things you said about career driven men are true. The ones I personally know were players up until their wedding day.

You’re right about the second part but I hope you realize that it’s not good for society. That’s the reason they’re banning abortion and causing chaos. No one can afford children and the population is declining. The government is forcing men with no money to care for children. It will only get worse over time.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

None of those things you said about career driven men are true. The ones I personally know are players up until their wedding date.

what did i say about this kind of man?

[–]pearllovespink -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Men who can provide stability for a family are career driven. There’s no way you can be broke and do this.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (26 children) | Copy Link

In my bubble the „career driven“ guys are perpetually single and don’t have time to be „players“.

They barely have time for their hobbies and friends/families.

[–]pearllovespink 0 points1 point  (25 children) | Copy Link

They’ll make time if they like you. I don’t know how old you are but things will get better as you get older. Your career and finances are more solid.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

i mainly agree with you, i made this post to challenge the incels who claim women only like +6ft muscular/thin chads/prettyboys

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

i made this post to challenge the incels who claim women only like +6ft muscular/thin chads/prettyboys

If those women could have married the +6ft muscular/thin chads/pretty boys they would have.

But due to their own shortcomings they couldn't.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

the same applies to men who didn't marry a stacy, but this only really makes men hurt for some reason.

[–]SilentFroggy -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is true. Most men would fantasize about a Stacy. I wished more men would admit this instead of bringing up the “men are attracted to most women” bs.

However, there are more Stacies than there are chads.

[–]FireCaesar23Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men are more physically attracted to the average woman than the opposite.

[–]todo_pasa_ -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If my grandma had wheels she'd been a bike 🚲

[–]pearllovespink 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s not true at all lol. That’s why I keep telling the men on here to focus on their education and career. The only men I know who are single with good paying careers are single by choice. Meaning they would rather date and have sex with multiple women instead of committing to one.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

its fine you suggest them to be beta bucks,but its NOT fair you give them false hopes

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How are you challenging them?

If a woman marries for stability, genuine desire is usually out the window. The woman in question will still find other men way more attractive than her old/bald/short (you name it) husband.

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They like them to have casual sex with.

[–]everleexc 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course women like these 6ft, 6 pack, 6 figure men, what women wouldnt? Any modern women would choose that man over your average man for casual dating/sex, but when it comes to longterm relationships/marriage, only then will a women take into account your average dude. This is where the alpha fucks/beta bucks comes from.

[–]ashpr0ulx 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

both genders value looks, most everyone would like to be with someone they are attracted to. from there, individuals hold different values on attraction and have a broad range of what “attractive” entails.

for a long time i didn’t consider dating men younger than me as an option and preferred older partners. maybe i’m alone in that, and i can’t say why i felt that way, but it just felt that the man was supposed to be older or at least same age as me.

at this stage in my life, i’m dating a slightly younger man and i know several relationships where the woman is older and the man is younger- this dynamic is actually pretty popular in my social circle more than the opposite.

i don’t think a lot of men really care much about younger or older so long as there’s a physical attraction and the fertility/kids thing isn’t an issue (ie either the couple is child free or the woman is still young enough to conceive on a timeline that they both agree on.)

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

''i don’t think a lot of men really care much about younger or older so long as there’s a physical attraction and the fertility/kids thing isn’t an issue (ie either the couple is child free or the woman is still young enough to conceive on a timeline that they both agree on.)''

this is bluepilled, i seen men say 12-16 is more attractive than 30 year olds a lot, or go for women who look underage. i never see women say that or go for men who look like teenagers or preteens at 25

[–]ashpr0ulx 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

men are generally attracted to things that signal youth, which for some women can be retained longer than with other women. women are attracted to masculine features that often times don’t develop until early 20s- think the kid that is a bit twiggy in high school who fills out in college.

like, most 18 year olds still look baby faced to me, but a 23 year old can look pretty developed and masculine. i wouldn’t go that young for other reasons, though.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i don't mean 25 year olds dating 19 year olds or whatever, i meant +30 or 35 guys dating with 18-25 women.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

You really need to stop talking to those men who think 12 year olds are hot...

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

it still does exist

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. But those people are sick. What is your point?

[–]Mobrowncheeks 8 points9 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Men don’t even look like men on average until their late 20’s to mid 30’s, that’s probably why.

I’m 26 and My beard is still thin and patchy. Obviously some men look way more masculine at younger ages, and I think that’s reflected in dating as well.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 2 points3 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

beards are something that hide face, it's not something beautiful.

and women usually lack curves at teenagers too, but the fresher face makes them more attractive than older women.

[–]Mobrowncheeks 5 points6 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Obviously that’s subjective, women overwhelmingly like beards compared to men who don’t have them.

The women I went to high-school with who stayed in shape don’t look any different now then they did 10 years ago.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

most young women i know don't like beards, but value personality more than looks, might be differnt for older women.

[–]Mobrowncheeks 8 points9 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

They don’t value personality over looks.

They value personality after a certain looks threshold.

The women you know don’t value a 5’4 130 pound pale man who started balding at 17 because he is kind hearted.

[–]DarkValiance 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you Asian? I know in a lot of Asian countries beards are frowned upon because the average Asian man can't grow a decent beard so societal standards adjusted. So now beards seem to imply you are a disheveled bum.

[–]panzershark 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Speak for yourself, I liked Aragorn more than I liked Legolas as long as I can remember. I love me a good beard.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i'm a zoomer anon

though most dudes in my country get beards young anyway so it doesnt eve matter

[–]Dear-Acanthaceae760 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will always be amused by how polarizing beards are with women. You either love or hate then

[–]OvalTownship 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because the females on this sub are trying to make you forget the redpill and blackpill stuff because it's too close to the truth and because they don't want you to succeed, they just want their orbiters and simps and stream of free attention dinners and simps being emotional tampons lmao

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

blackpill is what's saying that looks>all, not women.

[–]801735 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

obviously someone in the 18-30 range on average is more likely to be look attractive than anyone older

There, fixed that for you.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

the main topic is about looks, as the title indicates, this sub is saying women value looks more than men, and i'm challenging this notion. please read what is in the title more carefully.

[–]801735 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Looks are fem quality.

Male quality aren't looks, well at least not for mature guys (mentally at young(er) age, as well as age-wise).

[–]kokorwqac[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

then this means you agree with me, that women don't care about looks more than men like men on this sub whine about.

[–]801735 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not that easy, but eventually they cease to, yes, in that sense, we agree.

Herding animals are not simple to understand. There's all sorts of things to take into consideration when observing "their very own" group dictated preferences.

[–]Rushbyb 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

biological clock in females to be able to have a family is a lot shorter then a mans ability.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

women only lose their fertility completely in 50's, men's fertility reduces after 30, and is critically high risk at making a kid with autism or other disorders if older than 40-50

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

only if he is fine with raising other mens child or being cheated on

[–]Machinecrash 9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Those old men have money most of the time and they go for girls with daddy issues that want validation from a father figure.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

not always, and even then, this implies this implies ugly or post-wall men can make it up with money, ugly or post-wall women have to date uglier men or mentally not well men.

[–]Machinecrash 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ugly and post wall women can make it up with money too. They just don’t want to. If a woman is post wall but not ugly she’ll still have options, just much less than when she was younger.

If a woman is ugly or both ugly and post wall she can use money to sexpat and get sugar babies too. Most women just aren’t as into that kind of thing as men. It’s why a market for women doing that exists but its dwarfed by mens.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

it means women still value things other than looks more than men

[–]Machinecrash 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They do just not for the same reasons. A woman will evaluate a man’s pockets, but his money won’t breed raw sexual attraction in her. For men a woman’s pockets don’t generate any kind of interest worth noting unless he’s broke and looking to social climb.

[–]rivetcitymayorManly-pretty-Boy 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true , Madonna and whoopi Goldberg be fucking hot young guys cause they have money

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No such thing as the wall for men. And ugly men make it up with money all the time. The reverse is rarely true.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

that is what im saying in the title, youre agreeing with me

[–]RearwindowPinecone 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

its mostly a sugar relationship

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This.

Or those women have absolutely no other options.

[–]throw-away-518Red Pill Woman (age 19) 4 points5 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Guys definitely value looks as much as women and maybe even more than women. My bf of over a year dumped me recently BECAUSE my looks weren’t enough for him. That’s pretty much the only reason why he ended it. My lack of looks.

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You chose a guy with options and you couldn't keep him. Sorry to say but that's on you.

[–]throw-away-518Red Pill Woman (age 19) 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

He told me he doesn’t have any options lined up and doesn’t plan on getting into another relationship for a while. This just shows how superficial of a person he is. He also broke up over text if you need another example of what kind of person he is

[–]Exciting-Necessary-5 -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

He told me he doesn’t have any options lined up and doesn’t plan on getting into another relationship for a while.

If he's wise he'll get on the grind and improve himself, now that your free of him you should too.

Who knows, if you grind hard enough maybe he'll regret leaving you.

This just shows how superficial of a person he is.

K

He also broke up over text if you need another example of what kind of person he is

Your not entitled to a breakup of your choosing.

[–]throw-away-518Red Pill Woman (age 19) 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol everyone told me he was ugly after he broke up with me, they just felt too bad to tell me while I was still in a relationship with him. He’ll only be satisfied with a model because of how pornsick he is, so good luck to him I guess. He tricked me into thinking he was gonna marry me next year too. I love how you just automatically take his side…

[–]kokorwqac[S] -1 points0 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

and yet men will claim looks only matter for men.

[–]Rafael758 6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Idk what men would ever tell you he doesn't care about looks, males ONLY care about looks. Your status, degree etc is useless for attracting male attention, I'd even say it works against you

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

they claim that ugly women can still fuck, but men can't, this is the most common whining point of this sub.

[–]Rafael758 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that's true but i think that's fair, women have a lot if disadvantages too

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

that is true. Men value looks but by 21-25 they settle for what they can get

[–]throw-away-518Red Pill Woman (age 19) 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yeah most men are just superficial fucks, unfortunately

[–]Rafael758 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Nah you're a leftist western woman that thinks basic human biology is somehow superficial. Yet women want a taller more rich guy who's ALSO attractive

[–]throw-away-518Red Pill Woman (age 19) 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it’s frustrating. My bf was super porn sick and would probably only be satisfied with a model as a gf. Looks matter to guys a LOT

[–]RearwindowPinecone 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No,marriage with big age gap(>10) is minority(8%),so most couples are around same age,and in these older male younger female marriage,i suppose most of them are sugar marriage or "green card ticket" marriage

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20220317-age-gaps-the-relationship-taboo-that-wont-die

to add:i dont know how OP claims he sees a lot of older male younger female couples,but if i take a walk at Beverly hills,i can claim most couples are billionaires🤣

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it’s because a lot of guys don’t take care of themselves. I know a lot of dudes who are 20-25 years old but look 10 years older. :/

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men value looks more as a quality, but their bar is less high in looks than a woman’s bar. The men who complain are the men who don’t meet the looks bar of the women whom they are attracted to.

in real life i see many average guys with average and even pretty women, and even ugly guys with younger and prettier women, the reverse almost never happens.

This is statistically impossible unless one believes that women are on average more attractive than men, which would explain why women are with less attractive men in the monogamous paradigm - only because they need to be if the only alternatives are either being used for sex by attractive men or being alone.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

older man x younger woman couples are fairly common, and obviously, someone younger is more attractive than someone older o average.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They’re not all that common. The average age gap is only 2 or 3 years.

Women’s choice of men only shows that they factor in more components than looks. Men are primarily lookists, but their standards are fairly low since they are thirsty sexually.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where are you from?

[–]WrongdoerRealistic491 points [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

Money is the answer to this

[–]kokorwqac[S] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

and women can't use money or any other quality to cover up their ugliness or aged looks.

[–]WrongdoerRealistic491 points [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Yes they can, women get body altering surgeries all the time, butt lifts, boob jobs, nose jobs, etc

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

that is enchancing your looks, not covering your looks up with some other quality like men do.

[–]Market_Insider -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

“Not covering your looks”

What do you call using make up to cover up skin?

What do you call using instagram filters to alter your actual looks?

What do you call getting surgery to replace your natural looks?

[–]SmakeTalk 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think I can settle this actually, "cover up" is the wrong term. What she means is that men can use wealth to lower the importance of their appearance where as a woman's appearance often needs to be enhanced or improved upon with her money.

[–]ruboyuri 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because relationships are transactional, and people want different things from this particular transaction

[–]lord_of_memezz 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They value maturity, feeling safe, and money more...

[–]ladytron- 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

as a woman, men my own age at every step haven’t been it. you need to go older to get the same (or at least similar) maturity level.

[–]h1shmanNo Pill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I look better at 28 than I did a 18-22. If you stay in shape many men mature into better looking guys. This is almost always untrue for women as they age faster and the same things like wrinkles that make a man look more distinguished just make women look worse. This is coming from a guy who very much like cougars/milfs so it’s not a dig but more referring to the collagen differences in skin.

If we are talking LTR here women also value a man ambition and wealth. Old men typically have more wealth if they are ambitious.

[–]kokorwqac[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i claimed between 18-30, by older i mean +30 and even +35 dating girls between 18-25

[–]Hoopy223No Pill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought the argument was that a “hot guy” had to be several magnitudes higher up than a “hot girl” in order to be “hot”. The whole Okcupid study where only 15-20% of men were seen as attractive whereas guys liked 40-50% of women. Or something.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i adressed okcupid in my argumnt and explained why it's not something that's accurate irl.

[–]CocoBabeNYC 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Cause older men are hot.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

majority of them aren't.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I have read a number of your comment here and it really just seems like your butt hurt that the majority of women find older men more attractive than younger men.

Like you constantly talk down to anyone that says "because older men are hot".

[–]kokorwqac[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

most of the people making those comments are men, not women

my mom married an older dude too, but she also admitted she wasn't sexually attracted to him.

there are a lot of reasons why some women prefer older men, but it usually isn't based on looks, my thread is purely about looks.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are a lot of guys here posting but not because they are lieing but because it's a super obvious answer which takes a simple google search to find.

What you want is an autistic answer (I'm autistic).

You want someone to quantify every visual aspect of why they would find an older man attractive. You can't just accept the fact that a large group of women find older men attractive, there has to be a reason that isn't physical because you don't find them attractive so they can't either.

Unfortunately it's not that simple and nothing is ever just physical or not. Not even men's attraction is purely physical.

The best generic answer you will get is that older men remind them of the comfortablity and stability they felt growing up with their father. That look translates to a physical attraction.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I cannot believe this sub genuinely believes young people of any gender find older people hot. The vast majority very much do not, and if you can’t tell that from just going outside idk what to say

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Considering that most women on dating apps have their minimum age set to older than them. Or the fact that women tend to lose attraction if you tell them your younger than them.

I'm pretty sure it's pretty obvious that women find men older than them hot.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude probably thinks of celebrity men. 🤣

The average male loses his looks after 30-35 real quick unfortunately. :/

[–]Pilling_it 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Because women don't care as much as men for youth and beauty when it comes to ltr.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

yes but according to this sub, women care baout looks muuuuch more

[–]Pilling_it 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

When it comes to casual sex, that would be true

[–]RearwindowPinecone 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

when it comes to dead bedroom,that would be true

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

only if the beta bucks has a lot of money,status...etc to compensate and is fine with being cheated on or "dead bedroom" or " divorce raped"

[–]Rafael758 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's the other way around, if you don't have money, status etc you can still get girls by looking good.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yes,thats my point,i agree on that,are you sure you reply to me?

[–]athlete2biz 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

men take way longer to fully grow and to fill out their bodies physically. Im 6'5 and I didnt stop growing in height until I was like 23. then it takes years to build any muscle and have a good physique.

most men can outcompete their 18 year old selves when they are 30 if they stay in good physical shape

then you factor in maturity, money and lifestyle etc.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

23 isnt really old, and men who stop growing at 23 are the minority anyways, most men stop growing in height about 18

i meant men older than 30 or 35 dating 18-25 year olds

[–]athlete2biz 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

no most men dont stop growing at 18

you arent a man, you wouldnt know

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

they certainly don't stop rowing at +35, which is what i refer to as older.

[–]athlete2biz 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I dunno, when I go to the bar/club, im getting outcompeted by the 30+ men, not the 18 year old men.

im sure this is the experience of most men.

[–]Mothra3 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I assume a lot of men would rather die alone than even ever think about compromising on looks, but I am an ugly old lonely pessimist lady. Also, I think society really pushes this story to men about being validated by having a beautiful lady partner, so if they compromise, it is a blow to the ego. Women compromise from day one so we are used to it.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

we're literally told to go for uglier men because they are manlier or whatever, yet men have the nerve to bitch

[–]catniagara -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know how obvious the first statement. It seems (and has definitely Bourne out in my life) that men value beauty over age.

I mean Nicole Kidman is what? 55? And she’s still more beautiful than 99% of the teens and 20s on social. I just don’t agree that age is a factor.

Like yea the film and modelling industries have a pedophile problem but it isn’t typical for the average people you meet daily (outside of a prison) to be like that.

I get hit on more by younger guys than men my own age. When I try to hit on men my age, they will pat me on the head (at least twice literally) and say they remember being young and having a crush.

I think there’s heavy stigma for women around dating younger men. When a guy dies it he’s seen as “saving” the girl especially if she’s broke or abused or something. But when I dated a guy younger than me people were BRUTAL, screamed at me called me a pedo or something, literally made threats.

Like literally he was 20 and I was 28. I was destroying his happiness and ruining his life and probably casting evil love spells WIiiiiiiiittttccchhhhh!!! Same thing when I was 35 and went out with a guy who was 25, his 32 year old ex literally called me a pedophile. Like what? Dude has a job, a car, and a condo….

So yeah

TL;DR men who date younger women are celebrated as studs; women who date younger men are viewed as pathetic and desperate.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

my friends claim they ctcalled by men more when they were 11-16 than when they were 25 on streets.

also blackpil at the last sentence, i was thinking i could get a stable job and date 18 year old cute boys without societal judge, heavy blackpill :(

[–]catniagara 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ask them again what they mean by that. Pedophiles will harass pre-teen children and tend to leave you alone the minute you grow boobs or look like a grown woman who can handle your own shit.

Men as a group do not find children attractive. Pedophiles just don’t find grown women attractive. You should never conflate those two groups of people, as NO girl (or boy) wants attention from pedoohiles at any point in their lives.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

maybe because you look younger than your age? i usually dont get anyone hitting on me but when they do, its usually same age or older men

[–]catniagara 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can look 10 years younger than my age and still look over 30, but I know women in their 50s who get hit on more than 18 year old kids. It really also depends on the age of the interested party. Obviously some 58 year old man isn’t hitting on a 20 year old kid unless there’s something seriously wrong with him.

It can also be where you live. I’m in a tourist/college town so there are just a lot of unmarried young people in general.

It could be that women look younger than men sometimes. Like a guy could be around your age but look like an “older man”. A lot of guys my age are fully grey or even going bald. Even in their 30s.

I will say I don’t tend to view creepy perverts as “viable men” so I don’t see them as “men hitting on me” so much as “psychos who picked the wrong girl”.

[–]oneandonlyA 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

99 % of men would find the average 20 year old college woman that isn’t overweight to be more attractive than 55 year old Nicole Kidman.

“Film and model industry have a pedophile problem” yeah let’s just pretend this doesn’t exist ttps://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10?r=US&IR=T

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nicole Kidman was a bad example lol, but I’d bet my life savings on 99% of men choosing Ana de armas or Alexandra daddario over an average 20 year old.

[–]Flightlessbirbz -1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Because obviously men value looks more. Women just value looks also to a degree, which makes men mad and start yelling about women being shallow. That’s really what it comes down to.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

men can value looks or youth or whatever, i don't give a shit but women having preferences shouldn't make them mad if they aren't hypocrites.

[–]Flightlessbirbz 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. They are hypocrites though, that’s the problem. They act like it’s just natural and fine for men to value looks above all else, but women are wrong for caring and have lied to them. In reality, they haven’t even asked us until recently and just don’t like the answer.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I think the men being butt hurt comes from women gate keeping the majority of men because of his looks.

Though men care about looks they don't not date a girl because he is a 7 instead of a 8, or she has red hair and not brown hair.

Obligatory Reddit warning: I am talking about the majority of people and I don't care about "this one time" (corner cases)

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

except majority of people fixated on stuff like hair color or skin color are men, i seen men lust over blondes/brunettes/redheads/asians/whatever the fuck else over all, or not wanting to date darker skinned girls, i never really seen women be fixated over hair or skin color to this degree.

and most of the dudes i see with girlfriends are completely average men, not chads, not rich, the main thing is that they are NT normies. men are so fixated on their attrction to looks that they project this to women, who will probably care about you being NT more than your looks.(of course this doesn't mean 2/10 dude won't struggle with 7/10 women, don't give me extremist examples that don't make sense)

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

i seen men lust over blondes/brunettes/redheads/asians/whatever the fuck else over all

Be careful with this understand, like I said in my original comment, lusting is something different than restrictions.

Like men are horny, end of story. However tons of women will reject a man because of his hair length or hair color etc... Like really simple things that men don't consider could ever be a problem, due to how lusty they are.

Men may want a blond but will still be happy with a brunette. Tons of Women who want a blond will accept nothing less than a blond.

As for you example to women of color. I'm not a person of color, but from my understanding (from other people talking about it) people tend to not gravitate to them and I agree it's pretty shitty both men and women get rejected because of it, I sucks. I personally don't actually care about color so I'm not going to act like I know what either side is thinking or feels.

As for average guys getting gf, well it's simple. Women are not a monolith so they all don't behave the same. I have friends that clearly aren't into me but are willing to go on a date with me, and other that are applied and the thought.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

no, women get rejected or treated badly because they don't meet whatever the standard of the guy all the time, men are more likely to be fixated in minor details lilke hair color or skin color more than women, i never even met women wanted blonde over all, at best, i saw ones fixated on long or short hair.

[–]unkle_Rico1 -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Us older guys usually have more T for whatever reason.

[–]Rafael758 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No u don't

[–]kokorwqac[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

testosterone peaks at early 20's for men and stays the same until it starts to drop after 30

in women, they actually have more e at 30's than 20's.

[–]Rushbyb 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

testosterone levels are reducing with every new generation.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i think this research was disproven, however, it might be true in usa where obesity and unhealthy diets is making estrogen in men more abundant, in countries where obesity isn't as much of a high problem, i don't think this applies.

[–]trilobright -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Are people actually claiming that women care more about looks than men? I'd say women value appearance in a potential boyfriend more than was once assumed, especially in online dating, but I think most people agree that it's more of a factor with men. Most hetero dating apps are at least 75% males, possibly even higher, and so a woman needs a way to quickly filter out what she doesn't want. And when you're just looking at someone's profile, looks are the easiest factor to use, along with well-known red flags like wraparound sunglasses, fedoras, or profile pics holding a fish.

[–]kokorwqac[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yes, it's a common whining point in this sub

[–]dbz19_kai -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women just most of the time don’t want relationships with younger guys. They don’t want to “carry” the guy whereas men have no problem “carrying” the woman.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

makes me think they value stability more than looks, but this sub is saying they value looks more

[–]dbz19_kai 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Um when it comes to serious relationships, I think everyone values things other than just looks. It’s not like looks aren’t important but someone who provides what you want in a partner is important, it’s a whole package. Looks are part of it. This applies to men and women. I wouldn’t marry a woman solely on her looks.

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[–]vogel777 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So I’ve said this before on here but my experience is the opposite. I can think of at least 6 long term relationships where the woman is between 8 and 18 years older than her husband but literally none where the woman is that much younger than the man. I know a few where the guy is three years older than his wife but that’s practically the same age. If I really rack my brains, my Dad’s cousin is married to a guy 5 years older than her but he was a Pop star when she married him so he had extra allure I guess.

Most people seem to be with people roughly the same age 1 or 2 years either way, that’s the norm.

My husband is 18 months older than me the age difference has always been unnoticeable. When I was single I was uninterested in men more than a couple of years older than me.

As an older woman myself now, if I were to ever be single again and wanting a partner I would still date around my own age not because I don’t think younger men are more attractive or hotter (they usually are) but because I’d prefer a relationship with someone at the same life stage as me, the same experiences, cultural touch points, someone hopefully more emotionally mature. While it might be possible to enjoy younger men for sex I’m just not the sort of person who can engage in casual sex.

[–]sarkington 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Looks =/= neoteny

Even for men

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

usually people lose neoteny by age 25, what i mean is +35, where actual aging signs show rather than just losing kawaii factor.

[–]goatismycopilotcatladycatladycatlady🐐🐐🐐🐐 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Older men with money can buy very attractive wives and GFs and having a young and attractive companion or fuckbuddy is very important to them so they make it a priority. They want young meat. They don't want old women who are fat or whatever.

Older women with money probably are interested in younger men but they seem to be bothered more by the idea that somebody is with them because of money than men are. Men tend to see women as a series of desirable body parts so I think they are more overtly transactional and more overtly comfortable.

[–]Lumpy_Code_4267 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

1000%%

[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women like men who look masculine. A lot of younger dudes still look like boys

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

most men look like men by age 22, and definitely at 25-30, by older i mean +35

and a lot of women women lack womanly features like curves at age 15-20 compared to older women too, but the fresher faces make them more attractive to men anyway, especially in this decade where looking like a little boy is called feminine.

[–]SmakeTalk 0 points1 point  (29 children) | Copy Link

Men seem to find more women broadly attractive, but also see the women they aren't attracted to as unattractive based solely on their appearance. No level of emotional or mental connection seems able to change that for many of us.

Women, in my experience, have often been raised to see past a man's appearance to see his other traits and become attracted to them. While they may see a lower % of men as "classically handsome" it doesn't mean they can't become attracted to other men so they may be open to a larger % of men as options.

I know a lot of women who are with men they don't overly see as classically handsome but fall in love with them still because other aspects of them will become very attractive as they grow attached.

Men often seem to find that harder, or don't accept as easily that it can happen to them.

This of course doesn't apply to shallow or superficial people, regardless of gender or sex. It also changes a lot as we move through life - I used to be much more superficial, along with many other men and women, because I was more interested in what my partner's appearance said about me publicly than how attracted I was to them physically, emotionally, and mentally.

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (28 children) | Copy Link

I know a lot of women who are with men they don't overly see as classically handsome but fall in love with them still because other aspects of them will become very attractive as they grow attached.

you could just say beta bucks or step fathers

[–]SmakeTalk 0 points1 point  (27 children) | Copy Link

I don't know what that means

[–]RearwindowPinecone 0 points1 point  (26 children) | Copy Link

means a woman lowers her looks standards and settles for a man,then this man helps her raising her kids whose biological father is more attractive than his beta bucks

[–]SmakeTalk 0 points1 point  (25 children) | Copy Link

So this is specifically a scenario where she got impregnated by another man?

Regardless, what's to say she settled and didn't just swap her priorities, realizing that she'll be far happier and better off with a man who has more to offer than his looks?

Honestly it sounds like that guy's looks are more important to you than this theoretical woman you've concocted.

[–]WarezMyDinrBitc 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because women value resources and security (at least when choosing a partner to settle down with,) while men value youth, beauty, and fertility.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s it in a nutshell.

Women don’t find them more attractive, they just find what they bring to the table to be the best option.

[–]IrrungenWirrungen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Money

[–]WillHungry4307 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because women value money, maturity and stability more than men.

Is this some type of "gotcha" moment attempt?

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

so they value things other than looks more than men, so men are whining for nothing?

[–]WillHungry4307 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

so they value things other than looks more than men,

In older men only, that's what your question is referring to.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i see women with the same age range as the men they date dating young guys that look average when they are pretty too, def more common than the reverse if you actually go outside and observe a little

[–]Drougen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Older men tend to be established in life / able to support them and less likely to already have kids.

[–]RussianFairytale 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Social brainwashing for generations

[–]PrinceBagratoni 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Most women are incredibly put off by feeling more dominant than the men they get with. Women see men much younger than them as betas, and their preferences generally skew more masculine as they age.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

even a teen boy can dominate an older women though, let alone a man that is a young adult.

[–]321gumby 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Men look better older....

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

most men start balding at 30, most women looksmaxx to the point you can hardly tell 20 and 30

[–]321gumby 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But the same 30-year-old looked better in her 20s.... Most likely.

And I would say a well-put-together man looks better in his 30s than in his 20s. Just more mainly...

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

they don't? men are literally more fertile in 20's, like the women are.

[–]321gumby 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What does fertility have to do with anything? One man in his 60s could impregnate and create an entire world... Who cares....

Ps. Men like young woman is another answer...

[–]bigdaveyl 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a couple of things.

The variance in what women consider physically attractive is narrower then men.

Other variables come into play with women such as money.

[–]NeighborhoodVeteran 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women who choose to date younger men seem to face a disproportionate amount of judgement. “Us humans are judgemental, and if what our neighbour is doing is misaligned with what we expect, we put a spotlight on it,” says Lordan. “Women who match with younger men go most against the grain when it comes to our narrative of marriage, and so suffer the most judgement.” 

[–]HazyMemory7 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Money and status

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

which are factors that are outside of looks, so women prioritize traits that aren't looks more than men do.

[–]HazyMemory7 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've always agreed with the notion that men value looks more. Women just generally have a higher minimum looks threshold.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's not really a hard question. Women find older men more attractive.

Why you ask, well I don't think anyone really know an absolute answer.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i know a few factors, but they aren't based purely on looks/aesthetics.

[–]anonymousUser1SHIFT 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And their it is again. You clearly don't want to listen to anyone else that has a different opinion than you.

So unless you god, you should probably drop the ego.

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Think it's pretty common to say both men , and woman enjoy a partner that's good looking. Also think demographics matter too. What's available in your particular area. Think this is why individuals in cities have such a hard time getting , or maintaining relationships. The reverse is true why you see extremely good looking women with not so good guys in rural areas. In my social bubble people seem to date relatively within age of each other.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The sexes are different.

An Apex male is not a 21 year old boy with little life experience.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

life experience is a factor outside of looks though, you're only proving my point

whereas men will prefer imature 21 or even 16 year old girls just because she looks aesthetically better, yet have the nerve to whine about some women having physical standards.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You bring up a good point. All the talk of woman wanting only young guys is pushing HVM away from the idea of marrage etc. I would say it why seeking arrangements etc is now so popular.

[–]ChrysippusOfSoli 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There isn't a conflict here. Older men are more attractive than younger, while the reverse is true for women. Your preference for "pretty men" is not at all the norm, and you know this.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

going purely by biology, fertility in a man lowers after age 30, and the preference for older man is rooted in a lot of factors aside from looks, such as maturity,money,stability and social zeitgeist.

this was true for my mom too, she married a guy that was fat and 12 years older than her, also admitted to me that she wasn't sexually attracted to him. everyone knows that, by the rule of pure aesthetics and nothing else, 25 year olds look better than 35 or 45 year olds.

it's not even just age gaps, i find average or ugly young men with average or above average girlfriends too, clearly something else other than looks are a factor.

[–]daproest1 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t value looks more than men. Idk why ppl are saying that. They’re pickier and more entitled in general, but they don’t value looks more than men. Maybe ppl say that because dating apps where there is nothing else to go off of

[–]everleexc 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

do men acually value facial attractiveness more than women but lie to themselves?

Both men and women value looks, but the greatest lie told to men in society has been "men are visual creatures." Women have always been the more visual creatures, as the biological programming to find the best mate is stronger in women than men (even if these women dont want children, the programming is there).

before anyone brings that outdated okcupid study, it is not only old and outdated, but most people don't use dating apps, especially before 2010, and there are like 5x men than women in those dating apps, it's not a reflection of real life, in real life i see many average guys with average and even pretty women, and even ugly guys with younger and prettier women, the reverse almost never happens.

Sure its not an accurate representation of real life, but it proves a general rule in human attraction/dating. Women see most men, at best, non sexual NPCs, while men see most women attractive. Imo, its not even 80/20 anymore, id argue its going towards 90/10.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

then why are we seeing average guys with 7/10 or above women? and not the reverse?

why are we not seeing 30-40 year old women blocking men above 25 as ''post-wall''? but seeing the reverse very often?

my friend made an account as a 20 year old above average girl, she got tons of messages from 50 year old men and fat younger men, while when she made an account using a fakr profile pic of a guy, she only got messages from women her age range and attractive.

i think you guys are going insane and delusional because in the past, men had the ability to buy young virginal women, now that it changed a little bit in modern societies, men are going insane.

[–]everleexc 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You deleted your reply to my comment, so ill just post it here.

then why are we not seeing average women with 10/10 guys?

Cause the 10/10 dudes would never give an average women a chance for a LTR, maybe a fling/pump & dump. Those dudes live in a completely different world, id argue its a world better than what a 10/10 women could have.

why are we not seeing 30-40 year old women demand 20-25 year old men and say that men over 30 are worthless?

Biologically programming tbh. Older men are just seen as better men by most women, no matter what her age. There are exceptions ofc, but youll almost never see an older women/younger guy LTR gain popularity.

i think that men were literally used to have young virginal women being served to them too much in the past, that when it changes just a little recently, they go insane like you guys do.

Ironically, young guys like me would be dead in the old days, cannon fodder for whatever war existed in that age. The men remaining would have their pick of their litter, as whenever you have a population that has more women than men, those men typically had women way more attractive than them. These are the men that in today's modern age, are the top 20% of men that women want a LTR with.

I suspect that those dudes who go insane go crazy because theyve realized subconsciously or consciously, they belong to the large portion of men who never had a chance to ever get a women and without any major war to naturely get rid of these men, you have an increasingly large amount of sexless and angry men.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

''Cause the 10/10 dudes would never give an average women a chance for a LTR, maybe a fling/pump & dump. Those dudes live in a completely different world, id argue its a world better than what a 10/10 women could have.''

but i see 7/10 or above women with average dudes all the time!

''Biologically programming tbh. Older men are just seen as better men by most women, no matter what her age. There are exceptions ofc, but youll almost never see an older women/younger guy LTR gain popularity.''

you argued about genes, older men have worse sperm and are less fertile, contradicting your looks or biology argument, it is mostly social engineering and a bit of other reasons. my mom married a guy older than her who was unattractive, said she wasn2t attracted to him sexually, but it worked out anyway

my friend made an account as a 20 year old above average girl, she got tons of messages from 50 year old men and fat younger men, while when she made an account using a fakr profile pic of a guy, she only got messages from women her age range and attractive, explain this one.

[–]everleexc 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

but i see 7/10 or above women with average dudes all the time!

Its probably a local population thing/college thing. You would never see that being the norm in the big cities, where men outnumber women hard.

you argued about genes, older men have worse sperm and are less fertile, contradicting your looks or biology argument, it is mostly social engineering and a bit of other reasons. my mom married a guy older than her who was unattractive, said she wasn2t attracted to him sexually, but it worked out anyway

Your mom married back when social engineering was a thing, it's not around today due to the rise of social media and the internet. I dont need to get into how porn/social media has damaged human relationships cause its well documented.

That type of marriage would never exist in our modern world and if it did, it would result in an almost instant divorce.

my friend made an account as a 20 year old above average girl, she got tons of messages from 50 year old men and fat younger men, while when she made an account using a fakr profile pic of a guy, she only got messages from women her age range and attractive, explain this one.

Dating apps are almost always a 5 to 1 ratio (men to women), and as i stated earlier, in populations where women outnumber men, men usually get their pick, but in places where men outnumber women, women will only choose the top percent of men. Your friend probably swiped left on most of the men there because they just werent attractive (cause news flash, women dont find most men attractive).

Im willing to bet she used a picture of an extremely good looking guy, not your typical average dude.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

''Dating apps are almost always a 5 to 1 ratio (men to women), and as i stated earlier, in populations where women outnumber men, men usually get their pick, but in places where men outnumber women, women will only choose the top percent of men. Your friend probably swiped left on most of the men there because they just werent attractive (cause news flash, women dont find most men attractive).''

can you care to explain why 50 year old men or obese men would be attractive to anyone sane? i bet you certainly don't mind 50 year old women or obese women attractive.

''Im willing to bet she used a picture of an extremely good looking guy, not your typical average dude.''

both were above average, but the dude got people in her range, while the girl got men that were almost nauseating.

[–]resultsmatter1 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Money, the answer you’re looking for is money.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

why is a 10-year-old study on dating not valid?

[–]RunItAndSee2021 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

“how define ‘women’”

[–]Bill5443 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s biology. The 10th president John Tyler was born in 1790 and has a surviving grandson today

[–]IBreedSilkWorms 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women look more at a mans height than face. Still about looks, no?

[–]XYZRGCMYK 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because women value money/resources even more (for LTRs). Older men are more likely to have those things than younger men.

[–]Lavish_DreamerRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men : We are visual creatures

Also Men: women only value looks !

Me and OP: Please pick one of the above.

[–]FireGodGoesSeeknFire 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who says that? I mean, I have to disagree categorically. Women care about looks a motors than it used to be polite to admit but not nearly as much as men. It's not even close.

Only way that could seem true is if you sre counting the desperation of lots of younger men as mot caring. But, they do care they just don't have the capability to actualize that preference and the brain adjusts. As they get older and opportunities expand you see that looks are almost lexicographically important for many if not most men and the overwhelming factor for the rest.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's a very common whining point in this sub, you can't miss it

[–]Blueexpression 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Money

[–]BruddaMSKMale virgin, late 20s 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they value age even more.

[–]Namah-Mayco 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women change, men don't. Whether a guy's in his 20s or his 50s, he's always gonna find the 20-year old babe attractive. A woman usually starts off prioritizing looks, and then for whatever reason she's willing to settle as she hits her 30s, whether it's baby rabies, worrying about hitting the wall, not being able to stand being single when her friends are getting married, whatever.

[–]kokorwqac[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

and men bitch because they chase off the 20 year old stacy instead of going for someone in their league?

[–]Dear-Acanthaceae760 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some men literally get more attractive in their 30s and 40s

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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