If you expect men to pay on the first date, then you don't get to complain about the wage gap.

doshkhaleesi · 2022-06-29T15:19:48+00:00

It’s a moot point. If a woman is attractive enough, most men will pay for her dinner. Just like Chad gets fucked right away. There’s your flip side.

You’re talking to a sub full of men who believe they’ll be pulling 22-year-olds at 40. I would love to see what happens when these guys ask the hot young dates to split the bill down the middle, though.

I’d pay for a first date or multiple dates for someone younger and poorer than me, though I was never in that position.

figuringMylife · 2022-06-29T15:37:20+00:00

i dont. and i dont. but most dates are just drinks and an appetizer and if they trippin on it or don’t say what they want that’s on them

PurplePillEric · 2022-06-29T16:14:02+00:00

Men being expected to pay is more based on the difference in interest men vs women get and less based on the difference in income levels.

goatismycopilot · 2022-06-29T15:29:24+00:00

Men are fine paying for dinner/drinks for hot women they just get fussy if a regular chick asks. And most dudes are going to be just fine listening to a hot chick yammering about the pay gap while buying her drinks.

Then they will complain about it her on PPD.

Orange_Paisley · 2022-06-29T15:08:58+00:00

I don’t expect it and I prefer to pay my way so he doesn’t think he’s getting laid just because he bought me a $20 dinner and a glass of wine. And I absolutely will complain about gender based pay discrimination.

KaleidoscopeEyes12 · 2022-06-29T16:27:12+00:00

What about women who are lesbians or aren’t interested in dates? Seems unfair to those women to say that the wage gap is “fair” because some straight women expect men to pay for dates.

Personally I believe in splitting the check. It prevents the concept of “free dinner” no matter who’s “supposed” to be paying. I hate when people go on dates expecting free dinner, or when someone offers to pay for dinner expecting sex/compensation.

Do you feel that your title goes vice versa? That if you want women to pay for themselves on the first date, you should support closing the wage gap?

TermAggravating8043 · 2022-06-29T15:40:18+00:00

I don’t expect men to pay on the first date and I will fight to the death about getting paid the same as a guy fir doing the same job

alphafox823 · 2022-06-29T17:01:50+00:00

IDC if it's fair or not, I pay bc I know that if I don't she'll find someone who will. Even if she doesn't have any viable other options, paying for a date is such an easy way to get brownie points. It's not like simping to the point where you'll look pathetic, it's credit for just doing the thing that is normal, the thing the people who could compete against you are going to do anyways. Not paying for the first date is like not doing icebreakers for extra credit in a class on day one. You're leaving credit on the table

IrrungenWirrungen · 2022-06-29T17:03:39+00:00

Don’t most men usually insist on paying? 🧐

To the point where you get into a fight with them if you don’t let them pay?

Hard_Corsair · 2022-06-29T16:43:11+00:00

Why the fuck should your dating habits (or any other habits unrelated to work) have ANYTHING to do with how much your employer pays you?

ThatGirl50 · 2022-06-29T17:55:52+00:00

People getting paid the same amount for the same job really seems to irk people lol

And somehow these same people equate it to something as trivial as who pays on a date. Which by the way, is always the person who does the asking out.

thegreatagent · 2022-06-29T16:43:15+00:00

Hmmmm make 10%-20% more in lifetime earnings or a few free lunch specials at Applebee's with a guy who spends the whole date talking about divorce rape and hypergamy? What a dilemma!

extrachromozomes · 2022-06-29T18:19:53+00:00

If a man doesn’t offer to pay for my food/drinks it shows me that he’s not very interested in me

Novadina · 2022-06-29T16:27:39+00:00

I don’t expect men to pay anything more than me, I prefer to split. I think if they make a lot more and invited me to something expensive, it would be polite to pay. All my relationships we took turns paying for dates or split them 50/50.

I’ve quit jobs where I found out I wasn’t getting paid as my male coworkers in the same job. It’s BS, I have bills same as a man - and most bills are not involving dates at all. You legit think men should be paid more because they are expected by some women to pay for dates??? Like why should I get paid less because of some social standard about dating? If that’s the case, maybe women should get paid more since they have more costs like menstrual products, birth control, and makeup standards, and increased costs of maintaining a standard female hairstyle.

pussy_destroyyer · 2022-06-29T18:08:53+00:00

The people on this sub absolutely baffle me. Imagine thinking it’s justified to pay women less just because some get taken out by their partner. News flash, the majority of women pay for their own expenses. Many are single or go 50/50 on dates . And even for the women being taken out for dates, u think being taken out for 30$ is somehow gonna help any of those women pay rent?

Substantial_Wasabi · 2022-06-29T16:03:52+00:00

I get to expect and complain about whatever i want. And men are still gonna pay for dates regardless.

DorianneGrey · 2022-06-29T16:44:02+00:00

Once the wage gap is closed, this makes more sense as presented.

That said, I see no reason why the man should be expected to pay as dating is an individual pursuit and the gender wage gap is a societal issue.

If the gentleman has a strong preference, I will allow him to pay for the first date (I offer to split of course). For subsequent dates, I prefer alternating as it's less awkward than splitting.

However, if I know that there will not be a second date because I am just not interested (unless it's due to his catfishing, doucherific behavior etc.), I make sure that I pay for the first date in total so he is not out anything due to my preferences and I do not have to feel guilty for declining a second date.

Twopawl · 2022-06-29T15:41:00+00:00

Expecting man to pay always or most of the time is "reaping the benefits of gender", and I'd agree in this case that you don't get to complain about inequality.

Expecting the man to pay on the first date is more of a cultural mating ritual/ ceremonial expression of his interest. It does not automatically mean you expect a financially unequal arrangement overall.

shockedpikachu123 · 2022-06-29T17:53:44+00:00

I love how the boys on here go so hard to make sure he only pays HALF the bill on all dates yet stays quiet about expecting women to sleep with them on the first date at his place without spending a dime

hemaristhysbe · 2022-06-29T18:20:41+00:00

Whoever asks for the date should pay, same as with friends.

Or maybe stop taking women out to restaurants and shows and meet for a walk, coffee, or beer. If a man’s personality is charming and the chemistry is mutual, he won’t have to pay for a woman’s company.

shzam5890 · 2022-06-30T02:11:20+00:00

It's a major turn off to me, a woman who is considered conventionally attractive, when the man does not pay in the beginning. I always have my wallet and I am prepared to pay, but I won't be seeing him again and I'm definitely not sleeping with him. After three or four dates, i usually offer to pick up a meal or drinks as a gesture of thanks and good will once there has been rapport. In the past, once things are official, I have switched off with boyfriends. My current boyfriend will not allow me to pay. On the third date when I tried to get lunch, during the start of our relationship, he explicitly told me he would pay for everything when we are together and he enjoys taking care of the woman in his life. This is such a turn on to me-- not because I need the money but it allows me to really relax into the relationship knowing I am adored and cared for on every level.

I always wondered WHY I was so turned off by a man who wanted to go Dutch in the beginning and so turned on by my boyfriend wanting to pay. In the past few days though, living in a red state in a post Roe v Wade world, it all clicked for me. When I am evaluating a man and deciding if I want to sleep with him, there's something subconscious in my brain that makes me want to know he is willing to provide in the off chance a child results from our union. If a man isn't willing to at least buy dinner, why would I draw the conclusion he would provide for a kid? Now, I'm on birth control, but I've had my birth control fail before. Now that termination isn't even an option within three states on either side for me, I'm certainly not sleeping with anyone who doesn't show he's unwilling to generously provide. And I'm not saying that I would be unwilling to provide for a hypothetical child-- I just want a partner who is willing as well. Luckily, I'm in a happy relationship with a man who doesn't let me touch my wallet and has told me he likes being a provider (even if right now, I'm the only human in the equation he needs to provide for). But I think that's what it comes down to for me-- a subconscious biological thing. So guys, if you want to sleep with women, and the risk of a child is a little bit realer where you live now, maybe show you're willing and able to provide with something as small as picking up the tab on the first couple of dates. It will allow her to relax more into intimacy.

Friedidli · 2022-06-29T19:19:42+00:00

I agree.

Not the wage gap thing but that men should not date women who d not reciprocate.

pay the first date but if she doesnt atleast split the second you are at best a slightly better option than neflix at home for her, as in that evenings entertainment.

Also men who do well should not date broke ass women.

WOPR-1983 · 2022-06-29T20:11:23+00:00

Gotta stop you right there. The wage gap no longer exists. Young women get 2 out of every 3 college degrees now and are out-earning their male counterparts.

The problem isn't who pays, the problem is she can't find "economically attractive suitors" who out-earn or at least match her income.

Wage gap is over. But, there is still the social services gap where women use more social services than what they pay in taxes.

Takes a village, indeed.

AdjectiveMcNoun · 2022-06-29T20:46:58+00:00

The wage gap has nothing to do with dating though. You are comparing apples to racehorses. The wage gap regards people of different genders getting paid different amounts to do the same job. Who pays on a date is something else entirely. Would you be happy if you did the same job as a woman but got paid less for no reason other than you are a man, even if women were expected to pay on dates? I'm guessing not because it basically means that you are less valuable than a woman even if you are doing the same type and quality of work.

I think whoever asks for the date should pay. So if the man asks the woman out, then he should pay. If the woman initiates then she should pay. I don't agree with the idea that men should always pay unless he wants to.

My partner is the type that wants to pay and I remember when we were dating he got kinda upset the first time I tried to pay. He didn't say anything but I could tell his mood shifted and I asked what was wrong he said he didn't appreciate that I said I was going to pay. At the time I made more money than he did because he was still finishing his PhD but in his culture, it is very insulting to a man to offer to pay, even if it's another man offering to pay for something. He sees it as someone thinking he can not afford something. In my culture women often pay for dates so I just did what I normally do. Who pays after the first date should be decided between the two based on what they are comfortable with. There shouldn't be "rules" since people are so different.

poweroverwhelmingg · 2022-06-30T03:51:57+00:00

The wage gap is not real.

ApatheticHeretic_101 · 2022-06-30T15:04:57+00:00

Asking women to NOT complain is like asking the sun to stop rising...it ain't gonna happen. Women are never satisfied, even when they get exactly what they want. Even they will admit that they don't know what they want. Others just enjoy the drama of GETTING what they want, instead of the actual item/thing.

Don't bother with expectations. They don't think any rules apply to them. Just do what you do and live your life.

Cheers.

divingrose77101 · 2022-06-29T15:52:26+00:00

I think whoever does the inviting is paying for the date. If I invite a guy out to dinner, I assume I’m paying. Most of the guys I date make more money than I do because I work in a shit industry so they’d be offended if I tried to pay for a dinner where they asked me out.

Pigeon_of_the_sea · 2022-06-29T17:06:09+00:00

While I agree the men paying for dates thing is antiquated, these are two things that make no sense to lump together. A man willingly getting a woman a $15 dinner a few times a year is not the same as her being underpaid thousands for doing the same work as a male coworker. That being said, the wage gap has been debunked. It exists in some individual companies and maybe in some industries, but for the most part it's no longer a major issue.

sacredhighpriestess · 2022-06-29T16:50:17+00:00

Well if you wanna go Dutch on the bill (which is a fair way to settle things) you should communicate the same to your date. and if you absolutely don't wanna pay the bill, you shouldn't expect to get another date. It's also the matter of who has asked the other on a date. Most of the men make more in most of the industries. And when you pay for the date you, by your actions, are conveying that you are mature and financially stable enough for a relationship, potentially a life long. Choose your battles wisely.

Fiestygirl000 · 2022-06-29T17:20:45+00:00

I don’t pay for dates. Men have no problem being traditional for women they are into. If a guy ask a girl out on a date, and ask 50/50 he’s not into her. I’ve never been proven wrong

Demasii · 2022-06-29T15:54:47+00:00

I want the freedom to be able to choose to pay or not for a date. Men have the same rights. We both have the right to use our OWN money in whatever way we choose (excluding debts and illegal shit of course)

Also just because you expect a man to pay doesn't mean he will. He has the right to say no. The wage gap is a result of a social and economical structure that can't be avoided at the individual level.

altar-of-autumn · 2022-06-29T16:08:38+00:00

Paying for a date is quite insignificant compared to the systemic underpaying of women at virtually every professional level. $50 may be a lot of money to you, which is why people make this exact argument in the first place, but it hardly disrupts or delegitimizes the feminist movement or equality.

You'll find that most professional adult men insist on paying for dates. Regardless, most women offer to split the bill. The men most worried about being "expected" to pay for dates are the ones who don't have any money or are bitter, and you all always show yourselves with these posts.

goatismycopilot · 2022-06-29T15:14:24+00:00

Why would I give up an interest in the pay gap because some random bought me a drink or an appetizer?

plumtastic · 2022-06-30T00:38:31+00:00

A woman would need a hell of a lot of free dates to make up for loss of income.

OfficialHavik · 2022-06-29T15:43:24+00:00

The logically inconsistent one is every woman wanting to date a guy who makes more than them, but still complaining about a gender pay gap. That makes no sense. You can’t date an “economically attractive” guy if you both make the same amount

ClaraBow01 · 2022-06-29T17:35:48+00:00

I either prefer a split or whoever was the one to ask out to pay.

Swapsta · 2022-06-29T17:57:53+00:00

The reason men pay is to increase their chances, if you don't pay some other fucking thirsty fuck will.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2022-06-29T17:58:35+00:00

That’s fine, I split the bill all the time and if a man insist he pays I appreciate it. I don’t have the luxury of demanding a man pays, I’m average.

Bchckn · 2022-06-29T19:38:55+00:00

I’m a woman and have never expected a man to pay for a date. If I’m casually dating, I will always offer to go 50/50. Some men have agreed to that, others have insisted on paying for my meal as well. Either way is fine with me. However if I do go on another date with a man who paid for the first, I will insist on paying for the next one and he’s usually happy to do that.

In all my relationships, we always take turns paying. I get uncomfortable if a man wants to pay for every single date. Feels unfair, regardless of my income.

Edit: spelling

chalkandapples · 2022-06-29T19:42:47+00:00

It’s totally ok for the guy to not pay for the first date. Some of the guys I dated paid, some of them didn’t. I had a slightly better first impression of the ones that did pay, but at the end of the day that’s just 1 data point in a sea of other characteristics. Just show up as who you really are, and it will self select for the women/men that are compatible with you.

banjocatto · 2022-06-29T20:07:19+00:00

If you want to split the bill, you can't complain she didn't have sex with you.

That said, it really depends. I personally think ther person who did the asking or chose the venue should offer to pay.

Devourer_of_felines · 2022-06-29T20:14:41+00:00

Hell nah

Complain about the wage gap so I know you’re the type of person I don’t want to associate with

Molly45377 · 2022-06-29T20:38:58+00:00

It's a date....

Regardless, I absolutely would assume someone is not interested if they don't pay. However, where I'm located men almost always pay, and I casually date a lot. I can't recall the last time someone didn't insist on paying. It's been years.

Best_Illustrator_137 · 2022-06-29T20:55:39+00:00

First, wage gap has been dispelled thousands of times. Second, you say that but in reality you will still pay for the date cause you want that coochie..you can act all progressive you like but Ik for sure you still gonna do it just like the rest of us.

anon-sucks · 2022-06-29T21:08:08+00:00

Wage gap is due to effort not sexism.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2022-06-29T21:49:15+00:00

Nah, but you don't get to complain about being pumped and dumped.

Want a equal relationship? Split the bill, or have the man see you as a short term fling with unequal partner.

ruboyuri · 2022-06-29T22:20:21+00:00

If you ask a stranger to do something with you, you pay. That’s basic courtesy

Now, no one says it has to be dinner or anything involved or pricey/extravagant. No one in my UMC/MC social circle does that, or ever has

bluestjuice · 2022-06-29T22:34:13+00:00

So I don’t expect men to pay on the first date.

But. It’s incredibly disingenuous to draw an equivalence between pay disparity, which affects income across the board, prospects for future earnings in terms of base from which raises and increase negotiations start, and quality of life for all women (not just single women in the dating pool) with social customs for heterosexual dating.

The sheer number of hours most people spend working for pay compared to the hours they spend on dates makes the comparison meaningless, if nothing else.

Ohms2North · 2022-06-30T05:13:26+00:00

I have heard women laughing about how they can get free drinks and dinner every day of the week. They’ll string a guy along so that he’ll keep wining and dining her. Hard for me to respect that

gladusgates · 2022-06-30T07:37:37+00:00

Here's the unfortunate reality: they CAN and WILL do this. Reality is amoral, it'd be nice if women did not behave in a hypocritical manner, but they do.

criticalmale · 2022-06-30T07:39:43+00:00

Lmao interesting how this thread turned into the biggest circlejerk about how men don’t age better than women. I can smell lots of aging women feeling threatened.

Bobbyjets · 2022-06-30T09:39:35+00:00

I mean, there is no wage gap but bills should certainly be alternating or split. The breadwinner roles are dated and don't reflect how many more working women we have now

sharksville · 2022-06-30T12:38:10+00:00

Can’t say no to this argument and I think it’s a very valid point. If a woman expects a man to pay on the first date or second or third, it makes sense that they shouldn’t complain that men are earning more than women. When I first got into dating I’d just pay my own bill whenever I went on a first date with someone and made it known that I’m not going to appreciate being taken advantage of. We all have expenses and bills to pay, I can’t pay a lot for something just like that.

vogel777 · 2022-06-30T14:24:01+00:00

It sounds like you’ve been watching boring tiktoks of boring women saying stuff like, he has to treat me like a queen, secure the bag and other such bullshit, which is mostly just to attract views and stir up drama. Most women are happy to split the bill and would prefer that over pay inequality any day!

On a more serious note the pay gap has to do with complex things like childbearing which has a life long impact on a woman’s ability to earn, save for retirement and so on. Even if a woman works after her children are born which is the norm these days her earning ability is still impacted in a way that a mans typically isn’t because she is expected to be the on call parent if the kid is sick or childcare fall through not to mention the level of emotional support children and teenagers need which often falls to the mother.

During the phase when most of us are dating we are child free and probably In the same boat financially. When I started dating my husband we were students and dates were half price pizza using a voucher from the back of a bus ticket and 2 for 1 cinema tickets and yes we split the bill equally.

Partisode · 2022-06-30T18:26:51+00:00

I genuinely don't understand why so many women here think they're entitled to free shit just for being born with a pussy. Why do you all think you're queens? You're not. You're users.

Itsknowntohappen · 2022-06-29T18:09:34+00:00

Guys who fuss about who pays typically don’t get dates with me. All the guys I have agreed to date, pay without discussion over it.

nothatyoucare · 2022-06-29T15:47:37+00:00

The wage gap has been debunked.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karlynborysenko/2020/03/31/great-news-ladies-the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-myth/?sh=7897baa43b34

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wage-gap_b_2073804

y2kjanelle · 2022-06-30T04:27:20+00:00

Oh this is so dramatic. The wage gap has to do with gender-based discrimination in the workplace.

A man choosing to pay for a date is not discrimination and that expectation is not forced. If a man doesn't want to pay, he can say when the check comes that he is splitting, pay his half, and leave if she says no.

We all know this is just a frustration post and doesn't have anything to do with systemic gender based discrimination.

Sorry she expected you to pay, dude. Hopefully the next girl pays in full.

no_usernameeeeeee · 2022-06-29T18:50:24+00:00

Men aren’t expected to pay because of the wage gap. It comes from an outdated stereotype that men have to be providers. From my dating experiences, the men have always wanted to be in that position within the relationship therefore paid for the first few dates. Expenses usually become divided as time goes by, but the men prefer to take charge and don’t really mind it as long as you don’t take advantage of them or lead them on. Of course i am just speaking on the men i’ve dated. I think more and more women are open to the idea of splitting bills, at least if we compare generations. It’s just something that needs to be normalized more, i don’t think keeping the wage gap will solve anything.

Plus, as a man you don’t have to date or pay for anyone realistically speaking. You’re not forced to go on dates and can still split the bills if you wish. Working and making a living is a survival need. Even women who are not dating, women out of the market, women who aren’t straight would be penalized. And it’s not all men who pay for dates or date women either. This is an issue for single adult heterosexual individuals so i don’t see how a whole chunk of the population, even those who don’t participate, needs to have a disadvantage because of it. Your logic doesn’t make much sense.

BumblingBeta · 2022-06-29T15:38:41+00:00

Reddit is supposed to be filled with intelligent people and there are still people here who believe in the wage gap? lmao

throwaway164_3 · 2022-06-29T15:04:41+00:00

Not really.

Men and women are not the same. Women hold the aces in dating because of evolutionary biology.

They can certainly demand equal pay for equal work in the professional sphere AND expect men to pay on the first date in their private lives. This is because women are more valuable in the dating/sexual marketplace.

I think men should accept this reality, stop complaining and “man up”. Complaining isn’t going to change reality.

SuspiciousMaximum856 · 2022-06-29T18:37:32+00:00

And those incels wonder why they can get any women.

Kay_Lore · 2022-06-29T17:02:59+00:00

The wage gap doesn't exist. Now get out your wallet.

sarkington · 2022-06-29T15:06:47+00:00

I do when it’s because of sexism, aka, let’s pay someone less for doing the same job or refusing to hire/promote/support them at all

Now, leaving jobs or declining promotions because babies, sure, that’s a choice

QuestionableParadigm · 2022-06-29T17:12:16+00:00

Wanting men to pay for dates IS a result of the wage gap.

Women get paid less, and pay more for cosmetics, so it makes sense for men to pay on the first date.

To clarify, I don’t expect men to pay for any dates, I am merely providing another perspective for those of you who are angry towards the women who do.

didosfire · 2022-06-29T17:39:16+00:00

The person who asks on a first date pays. In a relationship, you should treat each other for special occasions or the higher earner should pay more frequently if that works for everyone/makes the most sense. Very simple.

AntiSocialPartygoer · 2022-06-29T18:07:51+00:00

I'm a single man and I always pay the bill on the first date, but I HATE the social norm of men having to pay.

Men have to do all the effort, it's an exhausting thing.
Matched with woman on Tinder? Man has to send the first message.
You two are scheduling the first date? Man has to plan.
You two are going on the first date? Man has to pay.
You two are going to fuck on a motel? Man has to pay... again.

No one here is asking women to be the chasers and men the chased, but having to do all the effort in the courting game is extremely tiresome.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-06-29T18:19:33+00:00

Nah. 50/50 financial is not 50/50. If men are only bringing money to a relationship it’s not equal to go 50/50 in only one area.

Retrojazzer17 · 2022-06-29T18:36:04+00:00

Tbh I think those are two different issues that do not lead to one another. One is a preference and the other is a societal issue (or not depending on how you feel)

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-06-29T19:00:11+00:00

I mean, I'm unsure what the parallel is between outdated gendered dating expectations and complaining about (alleged) discrimination.

Doesn't seem to follow.

Izanaminomikoto19 · 2022-06-29T20:03:22+00:00

Whoever asks out pays!!

Ohms2North · 2022-06-29T21:42:43+00:00

If she wants to behave like a hooker, I’ll treat her like a hooker

And anyway, there is no wage gap.

lowlifedougal · 2022-06-29T18:05:45+00:00

few modern western females will ever admit to it, but we all know most women have a biological propensity for wanting to be provided for - including before, during and even after courtship...Most of the rebuttals from women on this subject will be some form of virtue signal claiming to be some rational "exception to the rule"...problem is that so called rational gender fairness rarely plays out in real life. Yeah it sounds nice, but for the most part its academic - as female ACTIONS and what they respond to in real life is what really matters

I would posit that such "50/50" "unicorns" do exist, but it comes in the form of a trade off in terms what other features men would be attracted to in that women... so in effect, she will actually not be a unicorn at all

As far as equal pay... i think most women are actually unsure of this and take the prproganda as a form of female group think. The women that knowingly misrepresented this gap are seeking some sort of leverage or force to propel themselves over men. They seek to masculinize themselves against thier biology for parity and power over men, I dont they really want to have power over men...i think its a form of unabated hypergamy ,,, by pretending to be a boss chick she can filter through a higher spectrum of men, and pick out an optimal choice especially an ideal genetic specimen

smallstarseeker · 2022-06-29T19:18:38+00:00

Everybody is entitled to complain about everything!

^{Some complains might make people look like entitled assholes though.}

RearwindowPinecone · 2022-06-29T15:06:03+00:00

No,except you agree that you cant complain being cheated on or "dead bedroom" or " divorce raped"

daproest1 · 2022-06-29T17:29:30+00:00

Wage gap is a myth that has been debunked anyway.

-maternity leave

-men do the dangerous, disgusting jobs that women don’t want to do. And those pay well

-the workaholics are mostly men

-most entrepreneurs (highest paid occupation in this country) mostly men.

List goes on.

AutoModerator · 2022-06-29T15:00:28+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

peteypete78 · 2022-06-29T15:20:48+00:00

Your first mistake is thinking the wage gap is real, your second is thinking feminists wont complain for complaining sake.

MakeMoneyNotWar · 2022-06-29T15:32:37+00:00

There isn’t a real wage gap. Women are more likely to pick lower paying careers, take time off for childcare, etc., factors outside the control of employers. If you take a same age man and woman, on the same career path, same level of talent and how hard they work, same time off, same firms, the wage gap is negligible.

Why are highly paid executives and business owners skew towards men? Because these guys usually work insane hours, and women are more likely to desire work life balance.

If there’s a real difference such that the women is truly getting paid less than the equivalent male counterpart for equal output, than any rational business owner would profit by only hiring women and in the long run outcompete their sexist rivals.

DeJuanBallard · 2022-06-29T17:43:26+00:00

Facts, also the pay gap is a myth, that had been disproven many times.

newrunner29 · 2022-06-29T19:48:37+00:00

If you don’t expect women (and men, but over different things) to be completely hypocritical over what they say they want vs what they really want then enjoy being single forever

Arguing with a woman about feminism is like arguing with a toddler about dinosaurs being real. Why are you even getting into that conversation to begin with? Are you going to ask for permission to kiss her next because that’s what Reddit tells you to do? Lmao

HazyMemory7 · 2022-06-29T21:00:26+00:00

There is no wage gap. It's a myth. Equal competence, job, and qualifications, pay is the same. The "wage gap" doesn't take into account the fact that men work longer hours, are more likely to ask for a raise, work more dangerous jobs, work blue collar jobs that women don't ect...

Snoo-92685 · 2022-06-29T23:17:28+00:00

The wage gap isn't real and men shouldn't be expected to pay on the first date, and the commenters are doing a massive cop out with the "whoever invites the other on the date should pay" because they know damn well men are expected to do the asking

CentralAdmin · 2022-06-30T00:48:24+00:00

There is no wage gap. So women shouldn't complain about it anyway.

They choose lower paying jobs. It is illegal to pay someone less for the same work. There would be lawsuits all over the place if this happened. No economist takes the wage gap seriously either.

ViolinistOk8622 · 2022-06-30T04:24:48+00:00

Only a man would equate paying for dates to gender discrimination in the workplace. Ridiculous.

noobsnowman · 2022-06-30T05:29:11+00:00

Alright just to get this clear, the pay gap is bullshit.

Companies aren't legally allowed to pay women less due to gender under the 1963 Equal Pay Act. Here in Australia, it's not allowed under the Fair Work Act.

Men earn more than women because they are more willing to work overtime, more assertive in asking for higher wages, and do not take maternity leave like women do. Also, most men dominated fields happened to be paid more, but nothings stopping women from pursuing those careers in this day and age, considering that most college graduates are women.

If men are paid more because they are men, companies would have hired only women.

Now that's out of the way, it's hilarious that many modern women still expect men to pay for dates when they are more than capable of making money themselves. They are quick to say that men not paying means he's disinterested but pull out the misogyny card if a man views sex as indication of her interest, or views sexual compatibility highly. It's like they don't see a problem objectifying men financially, but god forbid men objectify women sexually.

None0fYour8usiness · 2022-06-29T15:18:17+00:00

Simple way to filter this. Ask her if she can pay half.

Pay the full thing anyway, and never go on a date with her again if she said no. That's a dodged bullet.

Edit: I should probably mention there's edge cases to this, e. g. you pay for the meal, she pays for desert, etc. The main point is she needs to be willing to pull her weight.

Admirable_Bee_8714 · 2022-06-29T15:48:43+00:00

That's why when you are on the date you tell the waiter right off the bat that it will be two separate checks. If she has a problem the date will be short and you won't waste time or money.

itm4l2000 · 2022-06-29T15:33:10+00:00

Women are deeply confused.

The only Man that pays for it her unconditionally is her father.

Women expect an unconditional man to be worthy, I think this is where the problem lies.

IF more men told their daughters that the only man that really cares about them unconditionally is them, they woudln't be disappointed when men let them down or don't meet their expectations like a good father would behave.

Women can't expect men they interested in them to care about them that much. That would be asking too much.

armpitqueefs · 2022-06-29T17:44:47+00:00

Earnings gap

UrMomma4 · 2022-06-29T20:35:26+00:00

110% agree. The whole men paying for dates is so antiquated. We aren't in the 1950s anymore. Just like how my husband doesn't expect me to do all the cleaning, cooking, and child rearing. We are a team. Our first date I paid for my own movie ticket and it was no big deal. We'd go to bars and half the time he'd buy drinks and half the time I would. 14 years later, still happy and in love.

Fit-Faithlessness149 · 2022-06-29T20:45:46+00:00

Another reason you don't get to complain about the wage Gap is because it doesn't exist.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2022-06-29T20:46:37+00:00

Does any woman expect this anymore? I certainly don't. I think it is the stupidest and most pointless dating tradition left over. Especially because thereafter, you always split the bill 50/50. My ex paid on the first date, after a few months together, he would piss his money away like there was no tomorrow, and then start hounding me for cash. STUPID, pointless rule that means naff all.

jingleofadogscollar_ · 2022-06-30T00:29:02+00:00

Don't forget engagement ring hypocrisy

fuwbd · 2022-06-30T12:19:12+00:00

If you are a “man” you pay it.

neetykeeno · 2022-06-29T19:31:42+00:00

Well the date's just never going to happen if he doesn't pay because random dick that hasn't justified it's existence is worthless to a girl. Or more likely than worthless it is of negative worth. And we all need our money more than ever at this point in history.

So I guess everyone can find a mate through social circles, community activities, and hobbies they are involved in. You know...money and time they are spending anyway because they are interested and involved members of the community who enjoy spending hours a week in the nonsexual company of other human beings and enjoy doing things

And introverted men who think that's even more of a waste than paying for the occasional plate of pasta for some girl can cry into their already damp wanksocks.

OK I am up for it. No more paid for dates, ever, in exchange for scrupulously enforced wage equality. Men's wages go down (you didn't for a moment think it would involve women's wages increasing in this economic climate? There is endless pressure downward on real wages, someone's wages gonna be going down) and so does men's major tool for obtaining an hour to just talk to a woman whose social circle they are not part of. When do we start?

rivetcitymayor · 2022-06-29T17:45:36+00:00

Imma wait for my credit man

kalashhhhhhhh · 2022-06-29T17:57:39+00:00

I don't expect it. Whenever I went on a date a guy would pay on his own.

My ex never let me pay when we went out. He worked, my parents gave me like 10 dollars when I went out and it kinda made sense. I honestly hated that he paid for everything, and it's not like I never offered.

My current bf and I are both in college with no income of our own, and we either split the bill, or take turns treating each other. Once when he was drunk, he told me he wishes he could treat me more. I honestly don't mind it at all, it never even crossed my mind as a problem.

And women deserve equal pay for equal work, regardless of whether men offer to treat their dates or not.

Moscow_Gordon · 2022-06-29T17:59:15+00:00

Making more money as a man makes you more attractive, especially for relationships. This is a major motivator for men to make more money in a way that it isn't for women and therefore a driver of the "wage gap." Paying for dates is just a symptom of that.

LizvEross · 2022-06-29T18:29:00+00:00

You do realize that the wage gap is part of the reason why women expect men to pay, I don’t agree with men paying for the first date either. But the leap you’re making… You do realize women put a lot more into a date generally than men right? Do you know how much makeup is? Do you know how much women’s clothing cost versus men? Do you know how much women’s hygiene products cost versus men? All of it cost a lot of money. Do you know how much time women put into their appearance for a first date versus men? Usually a minimum of three hours. Which I also think it’s ridiculous that we’re expected to do that. But that’s neither here nor there.

Also it is a lot less likely that a man will be sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, or stalked If the date goes poorly.

Catherine772023 · 2022-06-29T19:35:01+00:00

I am a feminist who is happy to ppl at my share.

Comfortable-Unit-897 · 2022-06-29T21:19:19+00:00

I pay for all dates! Its not even up for discussion.

HuntressAndGoat · 2022-06-29T22:14:41+00:00

I would GLADLY PAY MY WHOLE WAY EVERY Single! TIME. Because i have WORKED MY ASS off working FOR MEN i was Dating and THEY REFUSED TO BE EQUAL.. So YEAH PAY US EQUAL AND .. MEN. DONT EFFIN PAY OKAY PROB SOLVED ha!

Whynotbebetter · 2022-06-29T23:00:55+00:00

This

isyhgia1993 · 2022-06-30T01:33:35+00:00

Hey, you are bullying women intellectually lol

YellowFeverbrah · 2022-06-30T01:57:01+00:00

That’s why you don’t bring them somewhere expensive or that costs anything at all on the first date.

george__whorewell · 2022-06-30T02:34:15+00:00

imo whoever initiated pays, or you split the bill

Over_Noise3530 · 2022-06-30T03:47:54+00:00

One time in my early 20s this 40 year old asked me out on a date to an expensive steak restaurant. I went and still didn't fuck him, even after the second date. He started pissing and moaning about me being "alpha widowed" but not in those words. Surprise twist: the digs didn't work and he never got any

yaboytim · 2022-06-30T03:50:29+00:00

They shouldn't complain about a wage gap in the first place, since it doesn't exist.

ConsultJimMoriarty · 2022-06-30T07:50:34+00:00

Americans are pretty much the only people who do this. Just go to a cafe for a first date like regular people.

Dubi12345 · 2022-06-30T09:43:04+00:00

I hate the argument that goes "whoever asks out pays" its just a indirect way of saying "We know that the overwhelming majority of the people who make the first move are men, we just dont want to say that a man should pay".Just say that, dont beat around the bush...

HuMMHallelujah · 2022-06-30T11:43:39+00:00

the wage gap affects women who aren’t even dating. I’m sure you think they don’t deserve equal pay either but how much of the female population is actually actively dating? Many women never “date” the way you’re describing because they marry young or just don’t socialize that way.

YveisGrey · 2022-06-30T12:36:25+00:00

I believe men should pay and couldn’t care less about a pay gap so…

meanwhileinvermont · 2022-06-30T12:47:18+00:00

What the heck does one thing have to do with another? My female coworker doing the same job as me with the same experience should absolutely be paid the same, what she does in her personal life is irrelevant.

rhumel · 2022-06-30T14:49:48+00:00

Being desperate for sex = doing anything for more chances of getting laid = conforming to what ANY woman wants = less desirable = less chances of getting laid.

Giving sex it’s proper position in your life = respecting yourself to the point of not doing anything for more chances of getting laid = having standards on women (as you should) = more desirable = more chances of getting laid.

Doing what they ask you to do is not a way to more chances of getting laid, that’s a plain out lie. You shouldn’t believe neither incels (who are not getting laid for a reason) nor women who tell you should please them in whatever wish they have (who are making those guys incels).

They want sex as much as you do. Some may not want to have it with you… so what? No biggie, there’re plenty of other women. No need to be a beggar. Respect yourself and you will see how they will respect you back.

I always offer to pay first date. If the woman doesn’t tune in to pay her half I just drop her after the first date. I consider it an investment in dating to weed out women I don’t want to be in my life in any role, even sexual partners.

If she offers to pay her half I let her know the first one is on me and the second one on her. I always got some sort of “yes” and a smile as a response. And I go through my word. I had zero women not being happy to pay second date and from then on I get that dynamic going: “hey I want to go to X place” and Pay. Next time they catch on and do the same. Never had a problem because I already discarded any woman that sees me as a walking wallet and provider of unilateral pleasure.

Then relationship may move on and if you happen to have a better income than your partner you can pay for whatever you want so you can both enjoy nice things together. I love doing that because it makes me happy to share that with a particular woman, not any woman. In turn, that particular woman understands why I’m doing so (because at that point we already know the basics of each other) and feels rightfully special, because she is to me, I’m not going to spend several hours of my time and money with a random boring person just to have some sex, as if it’s worth it. No, I’m spending my time and money to enjoy X with a person I care about and holds a special place in my life.

Pay to enjoy life with a woman you really like instead of paying to have a sex with a random woman. Your life will be way better.

ReactiveNylxthograph · 2022-06-30T20:39:01+00:00

These comments were way better then i was expecting lmao

whoa_thats_edgy · 2022-06-30T23:15:25+00:00

whoever offered to go out should pay or it’s split. my husband and i do this. no issues with it.

also wage gap isn’t like how they say it is. yes i’m a woman.

coastFI_chaser · 2022-07-01T04:51:34+00:00

Stupid. This is a non-issue. Don’t pay on the first date and you’ll weed out women that aren’t into that.

I don’t see those two position as irreconcilable as women can give birth and men cannot. Also men ask women out at higher rates so in that context it’s reasonable for women to confirm the guy is stable and expect the person who asks/could impregnate them to pay. Also women tend to wear heels, makeup etc.

I pay for gfs meals and buy them gifts so if a guy can’t show me an equally good time why bother?

ValentPerspective · 2022-07-01T10:21:56+00:00

There is no wage gap. Adjusted for hours worked and job title, women only make 7 percent less on average. It's fair to say that men on average are just that tad bit more competitive than women, accounting for small difference. If busineds owners were straight up allowed to just pay women less for the same job title, there would be no incentive to hire men at all in the workforce.

Title	If you expect men to pay on the first date, then you don't get to complain about the wage gap.
Author	SmarmyPapsmears
Upvotes	323
Comments	490
Date	June 29, 2022 3:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vnhtbf/if_you_expect_men_to_pay_on_the_first_date_then/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-you-expect-men-to-pay-on-the-first-date-then.1122071 https://theredarchive.com/post/1122071