Long Term TRP

circlhat · 2017-06-20T14:17:50+00:00

RP reminds me of the fitness industry's marketing of various "weight loss" supplements: Flashy package that attracts their target demographic, lots of useless and inaccurate slogans and testimonials, and promises that that particular thing is the only way to achieve the desired body/lifestyle.

But the fine print on the back of the bottle always says the product must be used in conjunction with a reasonable diet and exercise regime...the reality is the diet/exercise would have the same result without the supplement.

The people who buy into the supplement industry wholesale are victims of manipulation and marketing, and their lack of knowledge and gullibility are being exploited.

RP stuff seems to be the same.... basic advice about self improvement wrapped in a bunch of marketing and the promotion of an US vs THEM mentality.

Electra_Cute · 2017-06-20T15:16:05+00:00

You can't fit the 100% into the top 20%, and we know this.

To start, this "top 20%" belief is flawed and comes from a poor understanding of The Pareto Principle. For example if there is 100 males and 100 females on a dating web site, and each woman sends out 1 message, it does not mean that it the messages will be evenly distributed to all of the males in the "top 20%". The male at the #1 would receive maybe 25-30 of those messages, then males #2-5 may receive 10-15 of those messages, male #20 may receive 2-3 messages, then the other 20% of the females are sending them to the males who are in that 80% segment, then it maybe out of those 20 messages sent, #21 gets 2, then males #22-40 each get 1, then #41-80 get zero, that is what it is. Take Purple Pill debate as an example, u/HopefulAboutADHD, u/[deleted] and u/soccerstar77 write probably close to 60-70% of the posts made on r/PurplePillDebate.

To the TRP guys out there, don't forget that TRP is just a knowledge base, and you decide whether it's good or bad for your life.

but my sentiment was basically that TRP is the default father.

There is this entire "circlejerk" about "The Red Pill is a cult" that a number of The Blue Pill users tend to say, for a very obvious reason that is incorrect, but now from your post, I understand what the distinction there missing; The Red Pill is not a cult, however it is has formed quasi-religion at this point and the users such as yourself have created it.

The Red Pill is actually split into segments now, it is a knowledge base, built on a ideology that was built on praxeology, additionally it is segmented into a movement as well as abhorrent cases of fatalism. Originally what The Red Pill was, was essentially pick-up artistry built on the observations of what women responded to, but applied less to picking up women and put more emphasis on sustaining attraction or reigniting attraction. From my observation, the more veteran users of The Red Pill user-base are flummoxed at the new Red Pill user-base, because the new Red Pill user base is too ideological and does not reflect many of the beliefs of the newer user-base that is prominently from r/TheRedPill, opposed to coming from the original blogs.

The user-base from r/TheRedPill, so many of them are very dogmatic, this post itself is very dogmatic as well, there is even ethics evolving from it, which is a huge problem for what it originally was. r/TheRedPill turned it too ideological and now some very staunch users are really turning it into this quasi-religion, users are even beginning to hold it up to a higher power in a sense. When a user has their flair as Red or refers to themselves as a "Red Pill", you can automatically know what they believe in, because it is an ideology and they may even be one of the odd users who hold it up as the quasi-religion.

To the BP people I only have questions. Do you honestly believe that this many men for this long are just griping about nothing? That something is just wrong with us - we're just hateful people without [just] cause? Can we be explained away without addressing thousands and thousands of personal accounts that form a pattern for understanding about what has gone wrong?

The self-proclaimed "Blue Pill" users, usually judge The Red Pill as a movement, so they are going to judge it based on the individual's in the movement. What they are usually going to see is "hate" or "negativity", which, for some odd reason those users think that they will find "happy" and "positives" tones opposed to "hateful" or "negative" ones.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-06-20T15:44:46+00:00

it's possible that anger to never goes away.

You mentioned that "female nature" ruined 10 years of your young adult life. Idk know if you are talking about your mom or a gf or what. Something pretty bad I guess. I had a bad experience with "male nature." I mean I wasn't beaten or raped or put in jail or something terrible like that. It did seem pretty awful to me tho at the time. I just made a concious decision to let it go tho. Mainly because I don't want my life controlled by the past.

[deleted] · 2017-06-20T16:55:55+00:00

To the BP people I only have questions. Do you honestly believe that this many men for this long are just griping about nothing? That something is just wrong with us - we're just hateful people without [just] cause? Can we be explained away without addressing thousands and thousands of personal accounts that form a pattern for understanding about what has gone wrong?

What, you think everyone else is happy all the time? You think you're the only person who struggles with relationships and shit? Raise your gaze from your navel for a few minutes and you'll realize that your suffering is not unique, that men's suffering is not unique, that women's suffering is not unique, that the suffering of the disabled and the elderly is not unique.

Youre in the human condition. Everyone goes through tough times, that's how Life works.

Your erroneous belief that everyone is having a fabulous Instagram worthy life on easy mode is fueling your sad Panda outlook. You need to wake up and realize that everyone struggles.

Or don't, and keep wallowing in self pity like so much of red pill tends to do. It's your choice.

uto-uto · 2017-06-20T14:28:45+00:00

Do you honestly believe that this many men for this long are just griping about nothing? That something is just wrong with us - we're just hateful people without [just] cause?

nah, i believe most have a legitimate gripe. there are a few that apparently just jumped on the bandwagon for comfort or edginess because doing things and feeling things and risking getting hurt is scary, but most have some pain and anger from a failed romantic or family relationship.

however... you will never convince me that this is an excuse to wallow or become hateful long-term. i've been through really nasty break-ups, i've been through abuse, and while it can help to shroud yourself in thoughts like "men/women are shit/stupid/worthless/disloyal", adopting that long-term isn't ever going to be okay to me or a characteristic of someone i want to be around. if you forfeit growth and healing in order to stay in your cocoon, then yeah, i think that is a problem. it's not good for anyone.

Can we be explained away without addressing thousands and thousands of personal accounts that form a pattern for understanding about what has gone wrong?

the problem is that so many RPers start at the conclusion, and then find ways to squeeze their past experiences into it. if i start at the conclusion that men are all depraved, abusive, dishonest sociopaths, then i'm sure i could pick and choose the parts of my past that support that too. but that's not real; that's not objective, and most importantly: it's not useful or beneficial to me. it's a subtle but serious way i'd be holding myself back from living freely as i should.

i do think a lot of the statements and assertions made by RPers can be explained away because of this. just stick around here for a little while and you'll see it. when their theories and 'knowledge' get poked at, they start shifting their stance and ultimately, it falls apart and then the conversation almost inevitably ends when they give up or start hurling personal insults and trying to deflect. if (general) you can't even support your own views and statements, why should i take it seriously? if i can see it for what it is, why should i pretend it's something else?

InformalCriticism · 2017-06-20T15:23:43+00:00

If you're hanging out here saying, "meh, I'm somewhere in the middle". I'd invite you to challenge yourself on exactly what you think makes you less than red.

Well that's a bit condescending. I've been around pillsphere for 3+ years, and I've gone from blue to purple to red, and back again. Trust me, my beliefs have been thoroughly examined. I am not "not red" for lack of understanding.

I reacted with bitterness and anger - no surprises there - but what I've found is that, at least in my case, it's possible that anger to never goes away. Does that mean I'll die younger for holding onto the hate? Good.

In a nutshell, this is why I am not red pill. While I agree with most RP theory, I can't endorse what most red redditors do with it. The answer to women being shitty isn't for the harmed individual to become shitty himself.

Human nature then becomes an arms race to the bottom, and that's both unfortunate and unnecessary.

roseria97 · 2017-06-20T14:07:13+00:00

People believe anything they read on the internet.

monkeysinmypocket · 2017-06-20T17:58:31+00:00

That old strawman feminist would t die.

"women were better than men"

Literally no one beyond the fringiest uber-feminazi believe that. It is not and never has been a mainstream feminist position. It seems that women having the nerve to stand up for themselves is too much for some to bear even now...

Daniel_Bryan_Fan · 2017-06-20T14:47:37+00:00

Do you honestly believe that this many men for this long are just griping about nothing? That something is just wrong with us - we're just hateful people without [just] cause?

Yes. Couldn't any other hate group claim the same thing? The Klan, Nazis, Antisemites, etc?

i_have_a_semicolon · 2017-06-20T15:10:28+00:00

So now that your view of female nature has been "shattered" what do you actually think of women?

I'm less than red because no, I can't agree that women are children, women are emotional, women are hypergamous etc. I definitely could see that women aren't infallible and many women do act the way TRP describes but it's not accurate and not the truth since it rejects my own lived experience as a woman. So can't buy it. Their whole claim that women who reject their ideas just are special snowflakes is rediculous. Honestly what they say might be applicable to the general woman, but it's not "female nature" and not an absolute truth. It's the nature vs nurture argument but red pill just attributes too many things to nature without the ability to back up and evidence their claims

BPremium · 2017-06-20T14:06:05+00:00

I will say the anger doesnt go away, one just has to redirect it towards something productive. Anyway, good for you! 🤗🤗

InformalCriticism · 2017-06-20T17:35:00+00:00

If you're hanging out here saying, "meh, I'm somewhere in the middle". I'd invite you to challenge yourself on exactly what you think makes you less than red.

I think it's a false dichotomy.

[deleted] · 2017-06-20T17:58:23+00:00

You live by your own unapologetic masculine ideal, with you as your center.

The rest are details

exit_sandman · 2017-06-20T17:58:48+00:00

My comment was auto deleted, but my sentiment was basically that TRP is the default father.

Because there's a sub for this. /r/thanktrp

DicklessAlpha · 2017-06-20T18:41:46+00:00

They are angry because of sexual frustration,there isn't some complex science at play here.

InformalCriticism · 2017-06-20T21:32:49+00:00

I don't need a slightly new take on how fucked up society got under identity politics, the Deluth model of law enforcement, and female-sexist jurisprudence in both civil and criminal courts.

This is within the realm of men's rights, and not so much TRP. Most BPillers here agree with the main gripes of the MRM, even if they don't like the group itself. You aren't going to find anyone here that thinks women should get shorter prison sentences than men for instance.

But I am forever grateful for the truth. In a world where the truth is illusive, the lies can get under your skin, and no one wants to hear it, I truly don't know where I would be without it.

What truth is that?

If you're hanging out here saying, "meh, I'm somewhere in the middle". I'd invite you to challenge yourself on exactly what you think makes you less than red. I too like to pick and choose what I believe, but if you prioritize what's true, I don't think there's much room left for the gray area.

As women, we have the advantage of having first hand experience. You are an outside observer. You can interpret reality however you like, but you will never experience it as a woman. You can say, "Hey, you must like Taylor Switft, because you were listening to it on the radio and you didn't switch stations." This might be a reasonable conclusion based on your observations, but you are never going to convince me that I like Taylor Swift when I don't. You believe it's true, but I know it's not.

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InformalCriticism · 2017-06-20T16:37:06+00:00

The idea isnt to hound the forums everyday anyway is it? You're supposed to get the key ideas then go off and do your thing.

despisedlove2 · 2017-06-20T23:42:13+00:00

I have lived with RP for about 5 years now. Started when my wife left me, and then divorce raped me, after using me for 8 years of marriage to pay off her student loans, and robbing me of a chance to have a family. The lowest last gasp BP point was my close brush with suicide.

I started frequenting men's forums and came across several stories of men who had been similarly destroyed by women they made the mistake of trusting. Many had been rendered nearly penniless after a lifetime of saving and scrimping. Others had their futures stolen from them by wives who cuckolded them. Some even had to pay for the privilege of ever being married by paying child support for another man's child. Slowly, but surely, the patterns I saw began to cut across the boiling pain I used to live with. I wouldn't have believed how difficult it was sometimes to even breathe, and how you learn to blink your eyes quickly at work meetings to fight the oncoming unreasoning flood of tears. How you look forward to going home at the end of the day just so that you can let the silent tears run, and yet can't sleep much because you live surrounded by a web of memories that you can't escape. To be with people was unbearable. To be alone was dangerous. The mind fixates on suicide as a blessed release.

Several men died during the course of their divorce while I was on the forums. I knew some of them personally via email or phone. One day they are posting that they are feeling better, or miss their kids, or their ex wife, and then zip. Nothing but silence. A few weeks later you find out that they were listed as a statistic. So, when I hear BP people, much as I once was, make excuses for feminism, that is what I remember - my brothers from a different mother whom that feminism murdered. My work, and my worry about how my death would affect my immediate family, is what stilled my hands even though they itched with a desire to drink up the chemical I had chosen to end my life with.

Some men mentioned RP. I got curious. What could you lose? Had gone through all of the meager self help post divorce support literature, which is mostly written for women, and none of it made any sense. So, I started reading about RP.

RP taught me a lot of things about female nature, which as a BP Tradcon, I simply couldn't accept rightaway. It just made me angry. Sometimes, I would "quit" in disgust. Then, for some reason, as the advice explained a lot of the patterns I had seen, I would go back. As a scientist, you learn about your own fallibility. It dawned on me that I had been wrong all my life about women, the way I had practically pedestalized my wife, for whom I had served as a breadwinner and even the househusband at times. I began to slowly lose the disgust and anger, and to learn.

But there is a lot of junk on TRP. Most of the stuff on TRP is simply young men who have discovered candy land. RP PUA are shallow, woman obsessed creatures who spend their days chasing pussy. Real RP is either RP Tradcon, or RP MGTOW, as those alone are honorable enough to be worth any manly consideration.

My anger phase ended years ago. I have worked insanely hard for years. Bit by bit, I have rebuilt some of the financial wherewithal that feminism robbed me of.

Many people, including my family, have asked me if I will marry again. Some even have nagged me. They mean well. They see a man alone and think that you can cure that by attaching a woman to him.

Personally, I am celibate. The last woman I had sex with was my ex wife. The desire is still strong, but I just can't ignore the fallen creatures that women are. At times, even the thought of being intimate with a woman makes me recoil with disgust because it is a bit like sleeping with a beautiful person covered in blood - the blood of a man she must have destroyed in the past. Maybe this is a psychological phobia, but it is a strange feeling to be sexually aroused by creatures that emotionally disgust you.

I believe in the deep abiding value of love and family. That is why I think I am RP Tradcon, rather than RP MGTOW. However, I also recognize that as a 42 year old man, who is a 4, regardless of his height and strength, it is a little too late for for me to think of family again. Then there is the not too small matter of utter lack of trust in women. How can one love a woman, knowing all you know about her true nature? So, I have redoubled my devotion to my work, hoping to find in the small satisfactions of scientific work and engineering accomplishment, whatever modicum of contentment I can find. Unless fate intervenes, I will die at my own hand, the day after my retirement, because once my work is done, there will be no purpose to continued existence. But that will be many years from now, and there is a lot to accomplish until then.

In the meantime, if I can save even a fraction of men from unknowingly becoming victims of a woman's inevitable betrayal, I will have kept faith with all my friends whose deaths this society ignores as statistics of disposable men whose value and relevance was ended through divorce rape. In our memories, they live on.

InformalCriticism · 2017-06-21T02:13:47+00:00

RP and occultism got me woke but I'm "purple" now because I don't believe in the existence of amorality, not even in the realms of knowledge the abstract or the aesthetic much more the physical and sexual

[deleted] · 2017-06-21T02:13:47+00:00

RP and occultism got me woke but I'm "purple" now because I don't believe in the existence of amorality, not even in the realms of knowledge the abstract or the aesthetic much more the physical and sexual

lilpumpski · 2017-06-22T22:16:19+00:00

Im black pilled

Title	Long Term TRP
Author	InformalCriticism
Upvotes	10
Comments	243
Date	June 20, 2017 1:52 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6ie5cq/long_term_trp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/long-term-trp.267486 https://theredarchive.com/post/267486