Men are just as “shallow” as women

2021-02-08T02:24:42+00:00

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TwoFirmFeet · 2021-02-08T02:22:35+00:00

Men are just as deep as women.

EffectiveBlackCat · 2021-02-08T02:14:24+00:00

Men like 1 in every 2 women on tinder.

Female tinder users like only 1 in every 22 men (4%).

On non swiping dating apps, average women recieive tons of messages per week; often over 100 per 7 days. An average man is doing well just to get 1 message per week.

Considering there's an equal number of fat persons per gender, men are probably only eliminating the obese, where as women are eliminating men for more physical reasons than fat - short, balding, low facial masculinity, nerds, small built, skinny, geeky, weak jawlines, pasty, gingers, blonde, ethnic, etc. Women have far more physical disqualifiers it's not even up for debate.

NockerJoe · 2021-02-08T02:07:01+00:00

Ratings are what they are. The average woman gets rated higher by men than vice versa. This means what each side considers settling is VERY different.

Bleebleebloobloo2U · 2021-02-08T04:01:15+00:00

Man what? It’s a known fact male or female, you go for whoever you’re attracted to. No one Is shallow for going after specifications they want

IvarIsALie · 2021-02-08T05:44:57+00:00

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huhuhuhuh11 · 2021-02-08T05:45:17+00:00

Men are absolutely shallow. A study was done asking men and women of different age groups what age they found the most of attractive for the opposite sex. As women aged, women always found men around their age most attractive.

Didn't matter how old the male group got, they ALWAYS found 20 year old women the most attractive.

Men are shallow. Women are shallow. The difference is women can actually be picky so it seems like they're "more shallow" but that's not true. If the roles reversed and men became the gatekeepers of sex/relationships they would be absolutely ruthless and shamelessly shallow, way more than women are now.

But that's not how biology works. Women SHOULD be picky, that's literally just nature at play. Women and female animals are responsible for culling the weak males by not reproducing with them. That's why you never see female animals in the wild mating with weak/sick/small males.

2021-02-08T05:00:37+00:00

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WeAreMoreThanUs · 2021-02-08T03:11:07+00:00

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SirBobz · 2021-02-08T10:51:37+00:00

Comment chain got deleted, so I’m putting this here.

Truth is, almost no women want a weak man. This is programmed evolutionarily into the selective criteria of women. And I don’t mean weak in the sense that they’re not allowed to have emotions or show distress. But it’s about their whole personality. A man who is constantly complaining about and blaming women instead of improving themselves is not going to appear attractive or have good relationships.

These men who have become resentful of women need to get their act together, take some responsibility in their own self-improvement, and be confident, mature and emotionally intelligent. It’s not easy, but why would any woman want a man who only wants to deal with easy?

2021-02-08T02:14:28+00:00

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flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-08T03:17:02+00:00

Shallowness isn't the same as pickiness.

Most women I know are picky, but not about traits usually labeled as shallow (looks, money, etc.). They have high standards about behavior.

gxga · 2021-02-08T06:02:12+00:00

Only the bottom of the manosphere believes these people and even they will occasionally stop lying. Pink pill 101.

A great personality, skills, nice attitude, all important after she clears the looks requirement.

Men are easily more shallow than women. Women can absolutely be shallow. Men more so. More of them are and more of them care so much deeper about appearance. We have to protect little girls from some of them, we have to make laws in society to account for how often they rove or even abandon whole families, we have billion dollar industries just so men can look at attractive women

Men come here and threaten uprisings as well as leaving society as a whole tantrum just because they want a woman. They will use their intellect to make sex dolls and robots that emulate beautiful women. Have you seen the art men make over the ages? For what. Beautiful women

We see all this and people want to take red pillers seriously about women being more shallow?

Lmao I think not. We may have out faults but choosing to live or die for a beautiful face is not one of them. That's men

PS: "not all" etc etc. But a heck of a lot.

2021-02-08T04:10:51+00:00

I think you mean "women are just as shallow as men."

Women are the ones always accusing men of being shallow while saying things like "looks don't matter" and "size doesn't matter," but we know there's a * included. Gotta read the fine print.

bigdaveyl · 2021-02-08T11:03:21+00:00

Of course, you're going to have a preference for those who are more attractive.

But I think you're missing one point that the men that complain about this make - growing up, they are told that women care less about looks and more about personality and "what's on the inside."

Someone shared a video with me recently, it presented data gathered from speed dating events. They asked both men and women what they were looking for and what was important to them beforehand. Men rated attractiveness the highest, but women said they wanted someone who was more well rounded - they rated all the attributes (intelligence, ambition, attractiveness, etc.) roughly equal. After the event, they looked at why people picked who they did. Men generally matched what they initially said. For women, it was way off. They considered attractiveness the most important attribute. The take away was that at least men were honest about what they wanted, but women generally weren't. I've seen other experiments come to similar conclusions.

Historical-Tart-9338 · 2021-02-08T12:26:51+00:00

Us men are definitely visual, I think one of the differences is that the average woman has a lot more options than the average man, and a lot of average men act in a more desperate way than the average woman does.

angels-fan · 2021-02-08T02:08:34+00:00

Men are absolutely not as shallow as women.

Men find roughly 60% of women attractive.

Women find roughly 20% of men attractive.

You're just flat out wrong.

Source, /u/poppy_blu favorite okcupid study!

DevilishRogue · 2021-02-08T11:00:19+00:00

why do we pretend like men don’t also want the best woman they can get?

It isn't pretending. Men value quantity over quality and because of male thirst are of the attitude that something-is-better-than-nothing.

As a matter of fact I feel men are even more visual than women and potentially more shallow in that sense.

They're not. Men judge primarily on looks but don't attribute significant weight to it. Women judge on a plethora of attributes but attach far more weight to them. Looks may not be their primary concern but they still attribute more weight to it than men do and this has been consistently demonstrated with women rating 80% of men as below average in appearance.

Bandit174 · 2021-02-08T05:05:02+00:00

Both sexes want someone they are attracted to, but women's standards for what constitutes attractive is far more strict and usually based on traits men have zero control over. Women also judge men far more on wealth than men do. So even if you say women are equally shallow on looks which isn't true imo, they are still more shallow on wealth and being shallow on looks & wealth is more shallow than just being shallow on looks.

HODL_monk · 2021-02-08T17:33:22+00:00

When it comes to specifically men's desire for sex/women, we are clearly just as 'shallow' as women, as depicted in many works of fiction. I believe the actual RP claims are that women are 'shallow' in most other aspects of life, sometimes claiming they are childlike, whereas men tend to be more SRSBZ about non sex/women things. I think a better term would be 'emotional', as its a bit less judgmental, but still gets the point across. There may be some bias in this judgement, as I believe almost all human actions are 90 % + driven by emotion, but as men we can't see our normal decisions in this light, but we can sure see it in women, for some reason.

FluForThought · 2021-02-08T23:17:45+00:00

Off tangent, but shorter nerdy uglies have standards too. I've worked in an industry that caters to a good deal of those men and they have very specific, if not more rigid, standards than your average man. Thus, the near nonexistent amount of sex they get.

CentralAdmin · 2021-02-08T06:27:52+00:00

You wouldn’t want to date someone you are fundamentally unattracted to so why do you expect women to?

This doesn't mean men are more shallow. Women are attracted to a small percentage of men, whereas men are attracted to a wider selection of women.

There is BBW porn that men consume. Where is the BBM porn that women consume?

Men like women of most shapes and sizes. Even obese women get attention and sex from men. So how can you make this conclusion?

Imo men are just as if not more shallow than women.

You'd have a point if men were only interested in the same women. But even the femcel subreddit had to go private BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH INTEREST FROM MEN!

Men also tend to like women curvier than women believe (conversely men believe women like more muscles than they do).

Women are the ones who want the same tall, athletic, good looking, wealthy (preferably white) men. Have a look at the height requirements alone. Women don't want to date men shorter than they are and they want men at 6ft+ tall or as close as possible to that.

Only 14.5% of US men are 6 foot or taller.. Now eliminate men who are married, that are within the age range she wants, who are not complete losers and meet her looks threshold (remember, women find 80% of men unattractive online, where many people meet), and she's got such a limited selection of men to pick from.

By comparison, men desire women who are overweight, slender, tall, short, with various physical features from thick thighs and fat asses to women of all races. Women with higher N counts tend to be average or below average.

How could you see men's desires as somehow more shallow when it's clear women have far stricter requirements for attraction? By definition, being into only the most attractive, the smallest subset of the population, makes women far, far more shallow than men.

DaBlockObama · 2021-02-08T02:18:00+00:00

Absolutely no one is suggesting that women should date ugly men. You don’t have to go after an ugly person to not be shallow. This is a ridiculous exaggerated straw man argument.

Guys want women to looksmatch instead of dating up. That’s it. If a girl is a six she should date a six who is her equal, and not a 9 who will break up with her as soon as he finds a 7.

SnowHatesWome · 2021-02-08T04:19:29+00:00

I'm glad of your opinion but this has been done. It's over. The stats are in. How do people like you just show up and say shit - seemingly without doing one shred of research? This is why people are so stupid. Ignorance is bliss eh.

Here, I did all the work for you. https://imgur.com/a/8vBbPYy

Also, what women find attractive fluctuates by monthly cycle, seasons and life cycles. When they are ovulating and want babies they like strong chiseled masculine alphas and once the breeding is done they like the safe cuddly safe (yes I said it twice) dad-bod guys - GENERALLY SPEAKING. God, wish I didn't have to say that every time either.

Men want young, smooth skin, fertile, - ALWAYS. Ok fine, I'm sure there's a few fringe freaks but again - IN GENERAL. As in - most of the time.

Has your opinion changed? No, of course not. Gonna go keep on believing what you want to believe because it makes you feel better. Makes you feel like we're all equal and 'the same' - makes you feel like you have virtue. Good for you.

throwaway82643898 · 2021-02-08T15:40:03+00:00

Women don’t admit that looks matter. They claim that personality beats looks. At least men admit that looks matter.

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-02-08T03:14:47+00:00

In society, you always hear the bad and negative aspects of men, but you always hear the best and positive aspects of women.

2021-02-08T03:48:28+00:00

Yeah but women are painted as more virtuous so shitting on women breaks that fantasy.

Also shitting on women lowers their self esteem in which the average woman's self esteem... is too damn high (like the rent is too damn high). Women are told they're princesses from the day they're born which has created all these narcissists living and dying by the mirror.

Elites love it because narcissism = consumerism= $$$ No surprise the self esteem movement started after post ww2 boom in wealth.

Reyeactable · 2021-02-08T07:01:13+00:00

Nah, if we were femcels would actually be a thing

WorkingClass00 · 2021-02-08T03:52:24+00:00

Men do it too is hardly an argument. Way I see it is women seek security, which means men need to be better in terms of success and/or attraction. People who watch Shrek often think it's a story about an ogre who gets the princess, rather than the princess choosing a partner for who they truly are.

moldovan0731 · 2021-02-08T05:12:29+00:00

Men are more willing the accept women below the top 20% though, and not in a way that most women accept a below top 20% man for marriage, instead, they are often genuinely happy with that. Even chads are less picky with who they sleep with than women.

SeemedGood · 2021-02-08T06:42:29+00:00

women only wanting the top portion of men, but why do we pretend like men don’t also want the best woman they can get?

False equivalence.

uglygalthrow · 2021-02-08T08:55:29+00:00

As a woman I can confirm. The most popular guys and the guys who date a lot are very agressive and bullyish. The type of girls they date literally look like whores(no slut shaming) and act like ones. I guess guys find it hot when someone acts bratty cause when I tried it I was told to fuck off and go away :( I guess this is why I never had a boyfriend?? Cause I am not whory and not bratty enough? I do not want this to sound toxic but these same girls are just as good as the guys they date. A little bit too agressive, mean, horrible, shallow, favourite hobby is to fat shame and skinny shame and tell other students to die in a hole. Oh wow.

Carkudo · 2021-02-08T03:32:46+00:00

No man is clamoring to get the ugliest girl they can find.

Yet somehow the ugliest girl still has no trouble finding sexual partners or boyfriends.

Sure sounds like men are much less shallow, bruh.

FnckTheDnck · 2021-02-08T02:57:20+00:00

Nope, Western women really are far more shallow. I just Thank God we have arranged marriages in my country. Dating is hell for guys in the West. I'm 5's and I would've died single if I had to date in the West

brojuststfu · 2021-02-08T03:51:34+00:00

Is that supposed to be an unpopular opinion? Men are always portrayed as shallow

💩 post

TwoFirmFeet · 2021-02-08T04:15:20+00:00

Just admitted Short and Nerdy guys are lower value to women 🤓

daproest1 · 2021-02-08T02:57:21+00:00

Men are shallow for sure. About looks. But once a man loves a woman he’s attracted to, it’s pretty permanent. Women on the other hand, will spend years with a guy and leave for something better if she thinks the grass is greener. That’s the difference.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-02-08T02:22:26+00:00

To be honest, with all the posts and discussions we’ve had on PPD. How would you think men are as shallow as women?

Workaholiconew · 2021-02-08T04:15:22+00:00

do you really think men are that picky? Even the high valued ones? The whole problem of women overestimating their value is in part caused because high valued men will fuck a tree if it had a moist hole.

If a chad wants sex and only a low valued woman is available at the time with nothing better as available... guess what is gonna happen... it has less to do with her value or his values... and more to do with her availability/men need for novelty.

Yes... he may not be proud of having sex with a low value woman. And yes. He may not fuck those almost all men consider unfuckable (too old or too fat)... but the fact is. Everything else... they will do it gladly.

And do you really think most men are not with what we consider unattractive... think again... we need sex... but we do not need to be attracted to our partners...

Ironically our undiscriminated desire for sex makes men the least shallow in behavior... after all men mostly treat women equally because "all women have vaginas".

TwoFirmFeet · 2021-02-08T04:16:53+00:00

Women date across and above

Men date across and below

This just in, PPDer just learned about hypergamy

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2021-02-08T14:16:52+00:00

Women are significantly more shallow.

John_Oakman · 2021-02-08T02:37:43+00:00

It's an unfalsifiable claim, because any example of the contrary can be negated by pointing out that at the end of the day we have no idea what they really went on in their heads.

For example, say if a single virgin male decides to enter into a sexless & romance-less relationship with a single mother in order to provide the role of a father figure to the child of said single mother. How would we know that his intentions were that it appeared? He could be lying, even to himself. Perhaps he was being shallow and trying to gain some moral brownie points in attempting to appear more virtuous than he actually is (in a way said relationship is just a transactional in which he puts in money & effort to get moral brownie points).

In short, we don't know if anyone's intentions are as noble or bankrupt, even long after the fact.

treymills330 · 2021-02-08T08:07:18+00:00

This is stupid

BionicFlo · 2021-02-08T10:30:52+00:00

I mean, yes, obviously. Everyone has Standarts of some kind, and that's OK. The good thing is, that the Standarts differ from person to person, Standarts not being a measurement of quality rather being a perception of what is desirable and attractive. People having a sense for what they desire and going for people who can fulfill that to the highest is something I'd consider logical behavior which is basically performed by everyone.

2021-02-08T15:31:48+00:00

Men DO want the best woman they can get.

But unlike women, men are happy with what they can get and aren't constantly looking for the bigger better deal. Men aren't constantly looking to trade in, upgrade, and replace.

Of course no one is clamoring for the ugly girls. But the ugly girls can at least get a pump and dump out of it.

So, no, women are much shallower than men.

2021-02-08T16:26:19+00:00

Here is your answer:

Women are more shallow because for most men, the best they can get is an average woman. And most men are happy with just that.

Women, even average ones, all feel entitled to a top SMP member. When a woman contemplates being with a man who is as average as she is, she is revulsed by both him and the concept of him.

RAGNODIN · 2021-02-08T17:03:47+00:00

You know briffault laws and how females see male's attractiveness you would get the answer.

2021-02-08T19:32:51+00:00

I agree. I see this online and IRL where a lot of my male friends will complain about 80% of women going after 20% of men.

What they really men is that 80% of women they consider sexually desirable aim for 20% of men (who, lo and behold, are people women consider sexually desirable!). I think that men forget they invalidated the existence of women they don't consider sexually desirable, probably because they automatically feel entitled to women they consider sexy.

I also think that men don't have a good idea of what makes a man sexually attractive to women, because they confuse our sexuality to be like their's.

For men, being extremely sexually attracted to their partner is an absolute must - her intelligence, her creativity, her talents are all things that come in secondary to her being sexually attractive to him.

For women, on the other hand, the concept of sexually attractive is a lot more complicated. While physical looks matter, its not the hyper muscular GI Joe that men seem to think women want - it's more about how well a man styles himself, how good he smells, how he presents himself, how he speaks. If only they knew that a lot of guys women consider hot aren't objectively good looking, they just have a whole lot of charm & aren't complete slobs. For many women, a man's intelligence, creativity and talent can be enough to get her sexually attracted to him if he's charming & charismatic enough. We even have a word for it - ugly-hot is a very real thing.

candlemass63 · 2021-02-08T02:04:28+00:00

Looks will only get so far with me,it is personality that attracts me the most to women.

Mustbeaight · 2021-02-08T03:04:36+00:00

Nobody is complaining ffs... all that bothers us is when women on this sub come here to pretend that it’s false

rellik13xx · 2021-02-08T02:06:57+00:00

No Shit Sherlock.

jonathaninfresno · 2021-02-08T04:24:58+00:00

I’ve fucked fat girls, taken old pussy, when ur a guy u take what u can get

loucos3 · 2021-02-08T05:03:19+00:00

Wrong. You're entitled to your own opinions, even when you're wrong. Guys react to the feeling differently, like for instance the way women see their fat bodies as "healthy," even though it's unsightly, and unhealthy. They embrace it, then stay with their fat for a long time, whereas a man will embrace it, then move along the moment something better comes along. It comes down to being realistic, and women are not realistic enough to get this. Not to mention the women's built-in mental handicaps....

i_cri_evry_tim · 2021-02-08T07:55:41+00:00

This has to be the most retarded post I have seen in a very, very long time on this sub.

“Men want the best woman they can get”

“Women want only the best men”

“Men and women are the same in this regard”.

If I facepalm any harder it will count as self-harming.

2021-02-08T12:04:16+00:00

Men and Women have equally high potential to be shallow. The difference is that outside of the manosphere women get next to no critizism for that and get even encouraged and praised for being shallow while men get things like "bEaUTy ComES FrOM WiThin" thrown at them if they even slightly mentioning they don't want a whale as a partner.

Feminsmkildredtt · 2021-02-08T04:43:52+00:00

See the difference is that at the end of the day when it's time to settle down...

Guys just wanna settle down but we cannot fall in love with a receptacle hamster brain Alpha widow, which all ugly girls are too now.

Lokipoki29 · 2021-02-08T05:14:15+00:00

Nope I like thicker fatter woman which are typically not seen as the top percent of woman ,I prefer them to be smart ( I don’t mind smarter than me ,I know many women like that ) but hardly anyone selects for intelligence so I think my expectations are reasonable , I am not interested in tall skinny model type women at all , In fact skinny woman just don’t do it for me nor even fit , However woman all seem to want the same thing tall , broad shouldered , square jawed it’s as if they want it because their friends want it

daniellederek · 2021-02-08T13:11:00+00:00

Is it shallow to ask for a clothed head to toe side profile picture before asking to meetup?

2021-02-08T16:46:46+00:00

All up and down this sub I see guys complaining about women only wanting the top portion of men, but why do we pretend like men don’t also want the best woman they can get?

So, I recall reading that okay cupid article about men's and women's dating website behaviors like 10 years ago, and this fact that you quote here is actually a wild misinterpretation of the data presented.

The article was a comparison of two related but separate metrics, 1) the number of messages users sent and to whom, and 2) the rating they would give other users using the sites 10 point scale rating system. The user groups were divided into two categories: men and women with heterosexual interest.

The study boiled down to this, men were very scientific about rating women along a bell curve, so the distribution of attractiveness ratings chart resembled a really accurate representation of women's attractiveness by population. But as a group men were only messaging the top 20% of the bell curve.

By comparison, women were far less scientific about rating men's attractiveness, they effectively have a two point system of ugly/hot (remeber Hot or Not?) that would put the top 20% of men in the higher ratings category and skewed the rest of the men way lower in the ratings. Basically, they weren't using the 10 point rating system correctly, they would give men either a 10 or a 1 with nothing in between, so only men in the top 20% of attractiveness will have a hope of beating that numbers game. But as a group, women messaged men regardless of that rating. So men who are not in the top 20% of attractiveness were still likely to receive messages from women in a faily even distribution along that bell curve.

Aside: I believe it about how women weren't using the 10 point system correctly becuase I am guilty of that too. I'd just scroll through the men and hand out a few 10's and a lot of 1's based on whether I'd like to date a guy or not.

Based on those findings it is actually men who are more shallow. Men, as a group, are very scientifically evaluating all the options and always picking the best for themselves, whereas women are using physical attractiveness as only part of their choices, and they collectively don't even have time for anything more than a yes/no ranking.

I guess this study must have been misinterpreted becuase people on the internet were just reading part where women gave high scores to only the top 20% of men and assuming that women would use a 10 point rating system just like a man would, even thought a good portion of the paper was explaining how this is not the case. And the rest is just being bad at math.

daddysgotanew · 2021-02-08T19:12:56+00:00

My standards are “not fat”, “not a total biotch”, and no single moms

You know how hard it is to find that combo these days? And what kind of competition there is for them? That’s it. All I ask. And I’m what would be considered a higher value male.

65 percent of women are overweight. By a lot. We’re talking only 35 percent of women who won’t break a bed frame with too much rough horizontal tango. That’s before you even get into age. The numbers are fucking abysmal these days. I make it work but god damn if it’s not a royal pain in the ass.

throwawaygoodvibess · 2021-02-08T19:57:14+00:00

Men are also shallow, yes.

But men are more likely to ‘settle’ or take what they can get. Women are the gatekeepers.

Today, women have more sex and more sexual partners than ever before. They also cheat more than ever before, as well as cheat more than men.

If women are to be shallow, and unhinged, hypergamy runs wild.

Previously, men had more of this ‘power’, but the dating market was more fair, in the sense that the highest status males would look for attractive women. And lower status men would end up with less attractive women. Obviously there are other factors; like for men - personality, looks, chemistry, etc., (as well as variables for women), that would cause different pairings or ‘unusual’ pairings (high status men & less attractive women, medium or low status men & more attractive women)

Today, more of the selection is left up to women. And women aren’t 100% superficial in the physical department, maybe not even as shallow as men, but it is a factor. Along with a HUGE factor of status/occupation/money/wealth/reputation/popularity/etc. When women weigh these two factors (looks & status), genuine personalities/connections/etc are a bit sacrificed

This ends up throwing the dating market off balance and in limbo. Which gives rise to many issues in the dating market that we see today (incels, loneliness, unsatisfactory connections/hookups/etc, mismatches, superficial dating apps, mgtow, wgtow, fds, redpill, purplepill, blackpill, alienpill, high divorce rates, falling marriage rates, falling birth rates, etc etc etc etc lol)

Favillla · 2021-02-08T20:28:48+00:00

A Man only wants a beautiful girl, nice butt, nice hair, nice lips, nice breasts, thin weist and large hips. It's something geneticall, a woman can BORN like that, the majority of women has a nice body, but what a woman wants from a man, is for him to be BETTER THAN ANY OTHER MAN, because women are hypergamous, they want to marry Julius Caesar, they want a tall guy with money, if you have the money, but you're not tall, she'll cheat on you with a guy who has money and is tall, while a man, only want a hottie queen to fuck whenever he wants, the woman don't need to have money, she don't need to be tall, she don't need to be bold, to be inteligent, to be smart, ONLY HOT, and for women, you has to be pretty AND A MOTHERFUCKING JULIUS CAESAR.

2021-02-08T02:17:42+00:00

In terms of being picky, would you not be picky too?

Picky for what, though?

nhilist_hugginkiss · 2021-02-08T04:51:10+00:00

Where is your evidence firie this ?

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Title	Men are just as “shallow” as women
Author	SnowHatesWome
Upvotes	281
Comments	467
Date	February 8, 2021 1:53 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lf199l/men_are_just_as_shallow_as_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-just-as-shallow-as-women.1192573 https://theredarchive.com/post/1192573