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Men are more likely to divorce a sick wife.

August 15, 2022
60 upvotes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/

"We find that only wife’s illness onset is associated with elevated risk of divorce"

There is a lot of discussion here about how women are the initiators of divorce, however in the case of serious illness, men tend to divorce their wives in higher rates.

It is of note that serious illness results in widowhood more often than divorce, but I'm curious, men, what you think of this? I'm not asking you to defend men, serious illness can result in some really awful issues, I'm just curious how men feel about this disparity.

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[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (2 children) | Copy Link

This is not a question

[–]Gracie_777 100 points101 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I read this as well and I've seen it irl too. It really puts a fly in the red pill ointment in my opinion. They are always so keen to point out how women view men as a utility, can't really love, are only opportunistic and endlessly hypergamous when this proves the opposite is true. Men who when their loyal, loving wives get sick suddenly go "oh no my sex and housework robot is broken, let me dump it in the trash and get a new one, she's worthless without her utility to me"

Obviously not all men think like that but probably a lot of guys here would be like this and resent their wives for not in their eyes being fully functional.

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 31 points32 points  (48 children) | Copy Link

Well as another user pointed out the study was withdrawn and they apologized for using flawed data.

[–]Academic_Snow_7680 26 points27 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

Yet every single oncologist warned me about this, especially when the woman becomes unable to have sex for longer periods of time.

Men are WAY more likely to divorce a sick spouse than vice versa.

Just look at what happens when a wife dies, the man typically has her replaced within an embarrassingly short amount of time.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay, but do they warn them due to stereotypes, or actual experience in having patients dumped.

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The stereotype didn't exist until very recently. If anything, THEY created the stereotype by saying it.

[–]RedditBotFarmRepost 8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Smart people frequently get fooled by pop science, especially when it plays into their biases.

This study's "data errors*" were only discovered years later and it is still "common knowledge" for a lot of people.

* not an expert but it sounded more like they had an agenda and just blatantly disregarded the data.

[–]GloomyHousing2657 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I could say that from the many studies RP dudes cite a lot of the time.

[–]haleykohrPurple Pill Man 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure but how many cancer docs do you know?

Also, human psychology means that we’re more likely to remember particularly unique or shocking incidents, so they’re likely to think more about that rather than all the times a couple states together through cancer

[–]Dapper_Art_8269 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had quite a simple procedure that could affect my life. Two doctors asked me if I was sure about telling my man all the details because he said they usually leve when things get serious.

[–]OrdinaryFarmerBurgundy Pill Man 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just look at what happens when a wife dies, the man typically has her replaced within an embarrassingly short amount of time.

The average man can't find a replacement wife with the snap of his fingers. You must be referring to the minority of hyper successful men, many of whom are rich, and often times are just getting a young gold digger for the replacement. So being beta bucks.

[–]CanYouTieThemInABow 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

By the time you're at cancer ages? Elderly women outnumber men quite a lot. The dating dynamics at my grandma's assisted living are definitely interesting.

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The first partbI can agree with, solely based on my own observations (not scientific)

But

Just look at what happens when a wife dies, the man typically has her replaced within an embarrassingly short amount of time.

I don't see how this is relevant at all. This could he for any number of reasons, such as men just being more practical, or more lonely.

[–]AntWillFortune151 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Or men just aren’t capable of love

[–]abagus101 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My grandfather asked my grandmother on her death bed if she would mind if he got remarried, he got remarried like 3 months after she died and my grandparents were married for their entire lives. It's the strangest fucking thing and I haven't spoken a word to him in years.

[–]TermAggravating8043 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Don’t mean to jump on your comment but it happens in pregnancy too.

The midwife has to get you in a safe space to discuss your support network and and potential domestic violence. I thought it was soo sad they have to do that but then I read that domestic violence increases for pregnant women by 30% (in the uk) and even in my own life I know a handful of couples where the dad just up n left either right before the baby was born or right after.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I read that domestic violence increases for pregnant women by 30% (in the uk)

Intimate partner violence against pregnant women is taboo and extremely rare (massively falling, not rising at all even in already violent relationships), not least of all because women involved with violent men often leave those men when they get pregnant as they reprioritize.

I know a handful of couples where the dad just up n left either right before the baby was born or right after.

TBF that's virtually always if the baby comes out a different color to the husband and wife or something like that.

[–]majani 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Could be that the men had open discussions about where he'll get sex from, and the woman placed an expectation of monogamy her partner when she was no longer able to fulfill his sexual wants

[–]Academic_Snow_7680 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. Most women in that situation offer other solutions.

[–]Shortstraw-777 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’d still take it as fact though. Many medical professionals report witnessing this phenomenon with their sick/terminal female patients.

[–]mrmudzi 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Many medical professionals say that black patients who complain of pain arr drug seeking. To the point that we have repeated studies showing that black patients experience undertreatment of pain.

You sure you going to just uncritically believe whatever medical professionals say in this context?

[–]Shortstraw-777 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean like literal nurses sharing their experiences of what they witness and hear from patients. I’ve heard it happen to my friends mom too. It’s a thing.

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The linked study in OP is the corrected one.

[–]Snoo-92685 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're doing the same thing as the red pill guys in reverse...

[–]sorebum405 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I read this as well and I've seen it irl too. It really puts a fly in the red pill ointment in my opinion. They are always so keen to point out how women view men as a utility, can't really love, are only opportunistic and endlessly hypergamous when this proves the opposite is true. Men who when their loyal, loving wives get sick suddenly go "oh no my sex and housework robot is broken, let me dump it in the trash and get a new one, she's worthless without her utility to me"

No, what this really shows is that it is socially acceptable to demonize men based on inconclusive weak evidence.The studies look at the association between wife's onset illness and divorce, but a lot of people have already decided to come to a conclusion about what the cause is, and of course it is something that makes men out to be the bad guys or puts the blame on them.Second, this is cherry picking studies because these findings are not even consistent in the literature.I go over all of this in my post.

[–]AidsVictim 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

when this proves the opposite is true.

Not really. It just proves there are a lot of shitty men, maybe more than women.

[–]beleidigtewurst -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

and I've seen it irl too.

And you were able to spot 1% higher chance of men divorcing ill wife (that is the finding of the article).

You are quite amazing at spotting things, I must note.

Obviously not all men think like that

Yeah. Whopping 1%. And we focus at that very study. Which also figured that ill men having or not having health insurance makes a difference in terms of wife divorcing him. Why could that be, me wonders.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know. It sucks? I can't speak for the decisions of other men, but I personally wouldn't divorce my wife if she got sick.

[–]AbeBaconKingFroman 32 points33 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThorLivesSkeptical Purple Pill Man 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would agree with you, but if you dig into the details, the original paper was written in March 2015. This is the retracted article here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25722125/ Note the "Retracted article" text.

They said the data was inaccurate, so they would republish the study with corrected data.

That link above says "Corrected and republished" in the Sept 2015 edition. OP's link is the corrected article. Note the September 2015 date: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/

The Deseret News article says "The study, published in the Journal of Health and Social Behavior, and covered by the Deseret News, among other media outlets, found a 6 percent higher likelihood of divorce for couples with an ill wife."

The updated research paper:

Neither husband’s nor wife’s cancer or lung disease onset is associated with subsequent divorce. Wife’s heart problems onset (but not husband’s) is positively associated with a two percent higher probability of subsequent divorce compared with staying married. Further, we reject a null hypothesis of the equality of the heart problem onset coefficients for husband and wife at the p<0.05 level, providing robust support that the relationship between heart problem onset and divorce is gendered. Wife’s stroke onset is positively associated with a three percent higher probability of divorce compared with staying married, however this association is not statistically significantly different from the coefficient for husband’s stroke (p= 0.3818), which is itself not statistically significant.

The updated research paper says that cancer and lung disease was NOT associated with increased divorce rate for either husbands or wives. Heart disease in women was associated with a 2% higher risk of divorce. Stroke in women also showed a 3% increase of divorce, but the sample size was so small that it wasn't considered statistically significant.

So, the retracted study claimed a 6% increased divorce. The updated paper found a 2% increase for women with heart problems. No increased divorce for other health problems. A much smaller result.

Across the four major health problems, three of them were not associated with higher divorce among sick men or sick women. It's odd that ONLY heart disease in women was associated with an increased chance of divorce - and only by 2%. It might just be a fluke finding that means nothing. "Statistical significance" is a mathematical way of evaluating data, and it basically says, "we only count something as statistically significant if it has a 5% chance of happening by random chance". What that means is that you can get finding that are "statistically significant" when they're actually just noise in the data.

Some nerdy comments about "statistical significance": let's say that you said you were going to use telekinesis to make a coin land on "heads". You then flipped a coin 5 times and it happened to land on heads every time. The odds of that happening are about 3%. That result would be considered "statistically significant". You could then write an article that says "we found evidence that telekinesis exists and that you can cause a coin to land on heads". But in reality: maybe it was just a fluke. Also, when you're evaluating four different illnesses and outcomes for both men and women, then there are eight possible outcomes. That increases the odds of a statistically significant result by 8-fold.

[–]geyges1🐇 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your article says it will be republished in September, and OP link says it's a September re-publishment.

So they got the data out there that they think is accurate; albeit that Discussion section is just full of interesting caveats.

Of course they find wife's heart problems/stroke are associated with divorce. Wife's Cancer is not. Very curious.

Secondly, they found that husband holding insurance is protective against a divorce. They don't mention that wife having health insurance is actually opposite of that, albeit they didn't find it significant. Which raises a whole bunch of questions about who's actually initiating, and under what financial/debt/insurance circumstances.

[–]warramite -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Of course they find wife's heart problems/stroke are associated with divorce. Wife's Cancer is not. Very curious.

Aren't heart problems caused by stress? Could be abusive men stressing out wives they never cared for in first place and leave them to die..

Whereas women getting cancer is more "natural" than environment based

[–]geyges1🐇 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Aren't heart problems caused by stress?

No? At least not exclusively or even in most cases.

Usually lack of exercise and/or bad food, then maybe genetics, then aging, and only then maybe severe emotional stress.

Anyway this is one of the results that could also benefit from accompanying qualitative study. Pick random 20 couples and see what they say about their divorce.

[–]mrmudzi 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One throwaway theory is that women with heart disease are more likely to be overweight on average than cancer as cancer comes for anybody.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It honestly caught my eye because I knew a case of it happening personally BUT, the whole situation was fucked from the start.

[–]Pigeon_of_the_sea 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you read the article, the mistake was corrected and the study re-published.

[–]heartheartdoki96 -4 points-3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ooooo a power reviewed paper or an article from deseret.com. which will one choose?

[–]AbeBaconKingFroman 12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I mean, it quotes the study authors saying they fucked up, so...

[–]Yumalumnus 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Good lesson that a study being peer reviewed and being replicated are two very different things.

Lots of people on this site love touting research that is peer reviewed but is not or cannot be replicated.

[–]AbeBaconKingFroman 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Let us not forget the Men Kampf hoax.

[–]Hoopy223No Pill 36 points37 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Men losing their jobs greatly increases divorce chances too. I think it has ti do with expectations and what people are prepared to deal with.

And lets be real, no matter how you spin it Women are usually the ones filing for divorce and things like abuse, medical issues, cheating aren’t high on the list.

[–]TheOffice_AccountTilting at windmills 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are usually the ones filing for divorce

inb4 Women file for divorce because they are the responsible partners who always take care of the paperwork

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

See, I don't understand the loosing jobs thing. Job loss happens, particularly if you work for a huge company that lays off people as soon as the economy gets shaky. They will get another job eventually. It's not the end of the world.

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The breadwinner isn't bringing home the bread

[–]SkeletonMagi 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women are quick to fire the divorce gun when they feel resources aren’t coming in for them. Women absolutely don’t want to be the breadwinner and support a husband that is “between jobs” or “taking some time to decompress” or “taking a sabbatical to find himself” even though wives say that kind of garbage all the time to justify not working.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh, I'm the breadwinner. But I like my job, and I appreciate not having to attend parent teacher meetings. Because I am an asshole.

[–]mrmudzi -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spoken like someone who hasn't ever been in an actual relationship.

Supporting the husband during down times is a very common thing I have observed among college educated women capable of earning higher incomes (as that's my network). I have also seen it among married immigrants and working class people in the midwest.

[–]haleykohrPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It depends. If you’re just searching for a better opportunity or the whole company got shut down, it’s not a big deal. But if it’s because you as a employee can no longer command a certain position along with its corresponding pay, then that may be an issue

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see that, because I guess the inability to function within a position shows a lack of competence or responsibility.

[–]TermAggravating8043 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When women divorce men due to job loss, it’s months and years after they lost their job but haven’t bothered getting a new one or stepping up in the house. Drugs, alcohol and gaming 24/7 also play a huge part too.

But this would suggest women have been practical partners whom reached their limit married to a bum rather than a poor man who’s wife abandoned him in his moment of need. Men are always the victim here

[–]Hoopy223No Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can think of dozens of reasons. People are dependent on two incomes, maybe they have conflicting personalities, all sorts of things.

[–]Raileyxreal sjw -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men losing their jobs greatly increases divorce chances too.

this is only meaningful when you compare it to chance of divorce when women lose their jobs. No shit something that greatly increases stress in a relationship will lead to divorce, everyone already knows that. Pointless thing to bring up without a frame of reference.

no matter how you spin it Women are usually the ones filing for divorce and things like abuse, medical issues, cheating aren’t high on the list.

also completely irrelevant to this thread. We know the stats, but that's not what's being asked about right now.

I have no idea why you find it so difficult to stay on-topic. It's really not that hard.

[–]heartheartdoki96 27 points28 points  (89 children) | Copy Link

Like the whole "women divorce more" thing let's look at it. Women and men break up about every during dating. But with marriage women's rate of ending things increases. We know women tend to do most of the housework and childcare in a couple, and we know most women are working full time. And single women report happier, healthier lives. Single moms get better sleep than married women with kids. What does all this mean....??

Could it be that men are more likely to get comfortable amd not invest in the family they created? Could it be men are relying on old gender norms of women do the grunt work and men play catch and do the occasional discipline and call it even? Could it be that women are tired of raising their husband's?

Red pill men won't listen though because they don't actually care about women. Watch they justify it with "well it's not that big a difference", "well we don't know how long he was unhappy" and deflect "well sure that's bad but the women's divorce rate is so much worse overall"

[–]ThorLivesSkeptical Purple Pill Man 33 points34 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

And lesbian women divorce twice as often as heterosexual couples. Gay male couples divorce about 30% less than heterosexual couples. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_of_same-sex_couples#Divorce_rates

My suspicion is that women get bored and tired of relationships faster. It might have to do with the fact that women's sex drives decline consistently when they are in a long-term relationship. This is true in both heterosexual relationships and in lesbian relationships. Lesbian relationships have some pretty surprisingly low rates of sexual activity after the first two years of a relationship.

Anyway, the fact that lesbian relationships are so unstable and gay male relationships are even more stable than heterosexual relationships suggests to me that it's not just about dumb men not pulling their weight in the marriage. To be clear: I'm not against complaining about those men who are lazy in their marriages. I'm just suspicious that it's THE explanation.

[–]warramite 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyway, the fact that lesbian relationships are so unstable and gay male relationships are even more stable than heterosexual relationships suggests to me that it's not just about dumb men not pulling their weight in the marriage.

Lets not forget Lesbian relationships have highest amount of Domestic Violence

[–]ReferenceImpossible21 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

They hate him for he spoke the TRUTH 😤

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do not circlejerk.

[–]AidsVictim 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

gay male relationships are even more stable than heterosexual relationships

Much fewer gay men get married per capita and they are more likely to be higher income/class in cases where they are married. Male homosexual relationships are far less stable overall than heterosexual relationships in general.

[–]Ganajin 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

gay male relationships are even more stable than heterosexual relationships s

Because they are not monogamous.

[–]Sweaty-Bee8577 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol this. I don't think straight men understand how promiscuous gay men can be. Men are horny and when there's no slutshaming involved and the danger of getting someone pregnant is non-existent a lot of sex happens.

I know of a married gay couple who have been together for 18 years. One of them regularly meets random men he can fist fuck and the other fucks other men from time to time too. They consider this normal because 'men need variety' and sex is just lust. Apparently open relationships are rather common in gay circles.

It's why I consider monogamy unnatural to the male sex. You don't evolve to be the most degenerate sex driven sex on the planet and thrive in a chaste monogamous relationship.

[–]Ganajin 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup.

[–]heartheartdoki96 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ehhhh, I would say you cannot compare gay and straight relationships because they do not and cannot have those traditional gender roles and expectations

And when I follow those Wikipedia links I can't find any actual root sources. I went to Google scholar and can't find any sources showing what Wikipedia stayed is accurate

[–]pis0t77sleuth 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

First, that's just a cop out because the stats make women look bad. I've seen plenty of women post around here about how "lesbian marriages are more fulfilling so that shows how men aren't up to snuff", but because these stats show some negatives about women all of a sudden they aren't to be trusted.

Anyway, I only looked at the first one for Belgium, but their links did lead to stats. Not sure what you clicked. Either way, there's other studies showing the higher rates of divorce among lesbians, here's some more:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023119829312

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4460604/

[–]beleidigtewurst 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lesbian marriages are more fulfilling

Hilarious: Lesbian Bed Death

[–]mrmudzi 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ehhhh, I would say to just ignore and dismiss evidence that doesn't support my narrative

-you

[–]zoloftabuser 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incredible hand waving of a legitimate argument.

I’m positive you wouldn’t have said that had lesbian couples been more stable than gay male couples.

[–]peterjordansen2 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lesbians have the highest rates of domestic violence and abuse.

[–]SpecificEntry [score hidden]  (0 children) | Copy Link

Source?

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer 2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Women and men break up about every during dating.

Not actually; women also inititate the majority of breakups. It's just that the specific Rosenfeld's study operated with P-values that put this disparity below statistical significance. Figure 1.

https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/Rosenfeld_gender_of_breakup.pdf

Even among unmarried couples that never lived together, women were more likely to be breakup initiators by raw numbers. Just not at enough rates to reject the null hypothesis with given sample size. "What does all this mean....??" - Obviously that women hate men, and the more they get exposed to a man's presence in their lives, the more they want out of this presence.

Red pill men won't listen though because they don't actually care about women.

No man is obliged to care about women. Tough pill to swallow, but the opposite is also true. The US women were this ).( close to take a woman who famously said "women were always the primary victims of war", and put her in charge of the state and the military.

[–]OfSpock 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Mn cheat more, are violent more, gamble more and use drugs more.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I suspect you may be right on gambling and drugs but it is well established that men do not engage in more cheating and violence than women.

[–]OfSpock 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

https://aifs.gov.au/publications/towards-understanding-reasons-divorce/perceived-main-reasons-divorce.

According to this study, women were the initiators in 64.2% of divorces, according to them, with 16% mutual. According to men, it was the woman 53% of the time with 26% mutual. It’s about 20% for men only whoever you ask.

Now what were the reasons for the divorce. 20.1% of divorces are because of an affair. For the majority, it was a spouse's infidelity that was the precipitating factor. Only 11 respondents, eight of whom were men, claimed their own infidelity as a reason. (less than 0.5%) 5.5% of divorces are because of physical abuse. Of the respondents who reported that physical violence was the main reason for marriage breakdown, all but one were women. In six of these cases, physical danger to a child was the reason. 7.4% of divorces are because of drug/alcohol abuse, 11% of women, 3% of men. 1.9% verbal or emotional abuse Verbal and emotional abuse was cited as a main reason by only 2 per cent of respondents - in the main, women.

So, of 100 divorced people, about 20 divorce because the husband cheated, 5 because the guy was violent, 6 because the man had a drug/alcohol problem, 2 because the man was emotionally/verbally abusive. These account for 33% of divorces.

Men initiate divorce in 20% of cases, with only 2% because the woman had a drug/alcohol problem. The rest are for affective reasons “just grew apart/lack of communication. Tsk, tsk, isn’t this what the manosphere calls frivorce?

The remaining 50% of divorces are mutually initiated.

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is why i always tell women, don't marry your anger-issued drug dealer, especially if he is a gambler and a pimp.

And they're like, "how am i supposed to know that my drug dealer is a drug dealer".

Translation. This argument conceals an assumption that selection into marriage is random.

[–]OfSpock [score hidden]  (1 child) | Copy Link

There just aren't men who won't cheat, gamble or be abusive to give each woman who passes the same selection criteria a husband. I guess we know why single motherhood is booming.

[–]zoloftabuser 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The US women were this ).( close to take a woman who famously said "women were always the primary victims of war", and put her in charge of the state and the military.

Very good point.

[–]heartheartdoki96 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bro other worries say otherwise..I'm going to trust Google scholar over you

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Please do. I concentrated on Rosenfeld's study because it is based on self-reported survey, not paper trail (i.e. it's not just "who filed for divorce"), and for many media claims of "women initiate most of divorces", his papers are the primary source. Of course do your own research.

Could it be men are relying on old gender norms of women do the grunt work

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Fuente-Enlightenment-Now-The-case-for-reason-science-humanism-and-progress-2018_fig1_358229260

https://www.reddit.com/user/abaxeron/comments/ls67cd/time_spent_on_paid_work_housework_and_child_care/

You may find amazing things when you do your own research.

[–]throwaway02593 -1 points0 points  (47 children) | Copy Link

and we know most women are working full time

Could it be that men are more likely to get comfortable amd not invest in the family they created?

Shut the fuck up. Married men earn about 20k more than married women do. That difference is literally enough to hire a full-time nanny in most places.

[–]heartheartdoki96 15 points16 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

Earning more doesn't mean anything lol, kids need time, family takes time. Men are less likely to know basic shit about their family. Men don't know their own kids names and birthdays and allergies lol

A weekly regular cleaning for a 2000 Sq house would "average" 250. You should sweep your floors once for every person who lives in your house and pet +1. A maid isn't going to do your laundry and shit either. They charge per hour. Average married Midwest couple makes like 80k per year, not enough to pay a paid thousands per month

Keep it civil boo ;)

[–]throwaway02593 -4 points-3 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Earning more doesn't mean anything lol

The hell you smoking?

kids need time, family takes time

Kids and family need money too. If he's contributing money then he's contributing to the family.

Men are less likely to know basic shit about their family. Men don't know their own kids names and birthdays and allergies lol

In what world would fathers present in their children's lives not know their children's names?

A weekly regular cleaning for a 2000 Sq house would "average" 250.

Where are you getting this from? It would take 4 hours max and you can hire housekeepers for around 10 dollars an hour.

A maid isn't going to do your laundry and shit either.

  1. Laundry takes like one hour a week.
  2. I'm not talking about "maids", I'm talking about nannies, domestic servants that do everything.

Average married Midwest couple makes like 80k per year

There's more to America than the Midwest dumbass.

Keep it civil boo ;)

It's hard to when faced with your retardation.

[–]heartheartdoki96 8 points9 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Earning more doesn't mean your partner should do more work when they're still working full time. You don't get to use your money to justify demanding your partner spend more time and energy becahse you earn more.

She's contributing money too. And him making 20k more means he can't make enough for her not to work most likely. So he needs her money. And he needs her money equally. Because without both of them working theh are fucked. So why should he be doing less work and energy into the home when be needs her to work too? Tbe family can't afford it.

Bullshit you can get a cleaner anywhere for 10 an hour. And 4 hours once a week is not enough. For a fucking family? You need daily cleaning, work that takes time. Sweeping takes 30-60 minutes, dishes takes 30-60 at least for a family of 3-4?? Cleaning takes 30-60. And bath time, laundry, grocery shopping, school droppoffs, sports shit, drs appointments, the fuck is wrong with you that you think his check being slightly bigger means she owes her life to her family and he doesn't?

Thats what it comes down to. You want women to give their live to their family every day when you don't and won't. And what? You gonna say "but I'd be willing to die" or some shit like she wouldn't die for her kids or her husband.

[–]AntWillFortune15Treacherous Snake 💜 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All a father needs to do is contribute money and that’s it? You’re joking…

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude. No, just NO!

[–]beleidigtewurst -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Earning more doesn't mean anything lol

Poor men are 2 times more likely to be alone, but sure, John.

[–]8m3gm60 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

earn about 20k more than married women do. That difference is literally enough to hire a full-time nanny in most places.

400/wk for a full time nanny? That's hilarious.

[–]throwaway02593 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You can look up nanny/au pair salaries in your area bud. Unless you're in San Francisco or NYC it won't be far off.

[–]mrmudzi 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

In Bay Area cost is 4x what you've shown here. And nannies are less economical in the midwest since its easier to just have one parent stay at home due to cost of living.

[–]boofthegirlHopeless Romantic 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What does the earnings of each party have to do with anything? Especially considering women have to take time off working to recover from birth.

If both parties work 40 hours a week, they should both contribute equally to the home. Earning $20k more doesn’t mean the man should be coming home to watch tv, ignore his kids and treat his wife as a bang maid.

Also why so emotional?

[–]throwaway02593 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Especially considering women have to take time off working to recover from birth.

That's a year, max.

Earning $20k more doesn’t mean the man should be coming home to watch tv, ignore his kids and treat his wife as a bang maid.

  1. Married mothers spend about half as much time doing paid work compared to married fathers.

  2. Why not? He contributes more financially, so she should contribute more in other ways so their overall contributions to the family are more equal.

Also why so emotional?

Because women are incredibly retarded, it really gets on my nerves. I should stop trying to argue with you.

[–]GloomyHousing2657 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe the dude should not work so much and be present for his kids and marriage. Problem solved. I make 1 dollar less than my man and we split the house chores and the kids stuff and we are pretty happy

[–]mrmudzi -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Bro, $20k more is not as meaningful as you seem to think. Especially after taxes.

And I don't know if you have kids, but I would rather work than jave to watch my kids all day. And I think most dads would agree

[–]beleidigtewurst 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Especially considering women have to take time off working to recover from birth.

Time off is more to look after newborn than recover from birth.

If both parties work 40 hours a week, they should both contribute equally to the home.

Women manage to make less even as uber drivers in a totally gender agnostic system.

Women spend less time commuting to/from work.

Of dozens of life vs work questions, majority of women picks life, when men pick money (married men earn more than single men)

So if all that stuff is accounted for, the mythical "wage gap" evaporates. And we knew that it was never "for the same work" for decades.

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Could it be that men are more likely to get comfortable amd not invest in the family they created? Could it be men are relying on old gender norms of women do the grunt work and men play catch and do the occasional discipline and call it even? Could it be that women are tired of raising their husband's?

In my experience it basically boils down to a lack of communication and unspoken expectations. The guy wants the kids to fit into their lives vs the woman wants their lives to revolve around the family and kids.

If an honest conversation was had and the man admitted he expected her to carry the load of kids, or he's fine foregoing having kids, these issues wouldn't be so common.

[–]majani -1 points0 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Why do you frame it as grunt work? Cooking and cleaning is a normal part of life, with or without a family. You've allowed a completely normal thing to be turned into a propaganda tool

[–]heartheartdoki96 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Cooking and cleaning after yourself is nornal. Getting married and then having to do almost all the cooking and cleaning for yourself and others while working full time is not nornal and its so stupid to even argue this.

[–]majani -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

It's just a slightly higher number of arm motions than what you did when you were single, WTF? You have to be on the furthest end of the laziness curve for that to actually make you resentful

[–]heartheartdoki96 -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

No its not. My dishes alone take 10 minutes. A family of 4 takes an hour a day easily. And ahit gets dirty faster with more people, so you'll need to spend way more time cleaning. I have one load of laundry a week. A family of 4 would obviously have a lot more, especially with young kids getting dirty. And kids need help with everything. You're making extremely poor arguments to justify getting emotional and name calling and it's dumb. Calm down. Woweeee you guys really want kids but want to be the most POS dads.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women and men break up about every during dating. But with marriage women's rate of ending things increases.

No they don't break up about evenly during dating. Women are even more likely to initiate break up in dating than they are in divorce.

And single women report happier, healthier lives.

They might say that, but it obviously (and necessarily) isn't (and can't be) true.

Could it be that men are more likely to get comfortable amd not invest in the family they created?

No.

Could it be men are relying on old gender norms of women do the grunt work and men play catch and do the occasional discipline and call it even?

No.

Could it be that women are tired of raising their husband's?

It could be that women think they are doing that when they are not.

Red pill men won't listen though because they don't actually care about women.

It is their job to care about their own happiness, not to have men do it for them. They need to engineer the situation so that they are happy, the same as men have to. If they are neglecting doing that, continuing to expect the man to put in all the effort to making that happen then they are responsible for things not working out.

Watch they justify it with...

Dismissing the justification doesn't nullify the justification. It is still justified if the justification is valid, which it is.

[–]HuckleberryThis2012 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This holds up to my anecdotal personal experience lol. Husband and wife played in an intramural sports league I was in for years and at a game the wife got shot from a stray bullet from an argument having nothing to do with the intramural game, and ended up paralyzed. They divorced relatively soon after that.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that things like that place so much stress on a couple, that sometimes they can't handle it, and things dissolve.

[–]HuckleberryThis2012 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah i think as guys we feel bad when we can’t fix something, and maybe it’s a sense of helplessness mixed with selfishness. The guy in my story was already cheating on her before it happened so it’s not as if he was a good husband anyway tho.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit 12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You mean a retracted study?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26157045/

[–]AbeBaconKingFroman 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, better source than I posted.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't show anything, its just a single statement with links to other research articles, can you quote it for me or dm me with a screenshot? I'm genuinely interested.

As I said to an above commenter, it just caught my eye because when I was in my early 20s a friend of my died from a brain tumor. Her husband bailed on her and their kid about 8 months before she died, and two years later, came back and took her mom to court to get custody back.

On the flipside, my mother inlaw has pancreatic cancer, and the stress seems to have triggered dementia. She's horrible to my father in law, yells and screams at him, calls him names, but he's totally devoted to her. My husband is worried that his dad will just snap and put her in a home, and honestly? No one would blame him at this point.

[–]Warm_Gur8832 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men that leave their wives because they get sick are terrible people. The statistic sucks and I’m sorry.

I’m not sure what else to say about it.

[–]RandomRedditGuy322Half My Posts Get Removed by the Jannies Pilled 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women marry for money, men marry for looks and sex.

If a woman leaves a sick man, she loses out on probably around half of the estate that would be left in the event of the man's death. So it makes sense for her to stick it out. She wanted the money, and staying maximizes the money she gets.

If a man leaves a sick woman, he loses no sex and loses a sickly looking woman, and gains a younger, healthier, sexier new woman and as long as the man can keep her a secret until his current wife dies he probably won't be divorced for anything either.

I have no idea why you wouldn't expect this result. It makes sense given what men/women marry for.

[–]icefire54Red Pill Man 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, this has been covered in the comments

[–]insertcredit2Purple Pill Man - Married - INTP 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well then edit your post OP

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My stupid ass can't figure out how, I tried to.

[–]AnActualPersonGirthy 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The study in OP is the corrected one. So what do you think about men leaving their sick wives?

[–]insertcredit2Purple Pill Man - Married - INTP 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The study shows almost no one breaks up because their partner gets sick and the difference between men and women is statically negatable. I feel bad for anyone who gets left because they got sick.

[–]icefire54Red Pill Man [score hidden]  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it's been removed now so I can't tell if you're right. But even the way the study was originally done was flawed since it didn't tell us who left who. It just looked at the divorce rate and everyone assumed it was the men who left for some reason. But there was no basis for that.

[–]Pigeon_of_the_sea 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Anecdotal, but my boyfriend broke up with me when I got chronically ill because I got chronically ill. It def happens.

[–]geyges1🐇 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

how did you condition affect the relationship?

[–]Pigeon_of_the_sea 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't do many of the things I used to do. This is true for anyone that gets seriously sick.

[–]geyges1🐇 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't do many of the things I used to do.

Ok, if it's personal then it's personal; but do you believe that connection is causal?

[–]Pigeon_of_the_sea 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what you mean

[–]HeimskurBlastbeat 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Maybe, but what people dont talk about: Men are WAY MORE LIKELY to overlook disabilities and chronic illness when they consider dating women. Women are considerably more strict and dismissive, men with illnesses or disabilities usually do not appear as viable dating partners.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I can agree with that. My husband married me even though I am covered in surgical scars.

[–]HeimskurBlastbeat 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for being reasonable.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are welcome?

[–]anon018274031 -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

IRL I’ve always found the opposite to be true. Women are generally more empathic and open to dating men with disabilities.

Is there a study that says otherwise?

[–]HeimskurBlastbeat 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If so many women are not even open to date a man who is shorter than them (which is not a disability), why would they be open to date a man with more debilitating physical issues?

[–]Cibfbfin 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the women leave far before it gets to that point for the men.

Women leave the moment the income gets effected. Which usually comes before the hospitalization.

Take the men’s hospitalization records and check if they’ve been divorced within the last 5 years.

The reality is it’s not that the men leave when the women gets seriously sick. they stay until she does while she if situations reversed would have already left months or years ago.

So the reality is the ones who stayed till he’s sick are already pre selected for being the ones who stay during tough times.

Reality is at the end both probably have their reasons to leave and it’s complicated. But the demonization of men is something that I think will bite women in the back in the future. Starting a gender war with the sex that murked the saber tooth tigers isn’t gonna work out in the long term.

So I think we got to keep a cool level head and not just jump the gun on all these studies that have low sample sizes and have 0 cultural context or even looks at the larger scope of things.

[–]underdaawg 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It says a 1% higher chance of divorce if the wife is getting sick right? I'm not sure how dependable that study is considering the sample size is so small and apart from the fact that in case of sickness widowhood is more likely than divorce.

On top of that looks like that study was retractated as there was an error in the code that used to do the calculations. https://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/21/to-our-horror-widely-reported-study-suggesting-divorce-is-more-likely-when-wives-fall-ill-gets-axed/ The corrected study says the divorce likelihood is higher only in case of hear disease. And it doesn't still look into who initiated the divorce. All this scream confirmation bias to me. Click bait in the academic world.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It was posted eariler, but thank you 😁, my whole point was just to see how men felt about this, and what they thought about how valid this might be from their own viewpoint ( would they, wouldn't they) .

[–]underdaawg 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean considering 70% of divorce is initiated by women and let's assume 50% of the time the reason is partner being ill and of 30% of the cases where men initiate the divorce let's assume 100% of the time the reason is partner fell sick still would mean more men are divorced because they are ill. So I feel nothing.

[–]Carolinaathiest 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women are more likely to divorce a man if he loses his job/wealth.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Which is distressing and gross that women do that.

[–]Carolinaathiest 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just human nature. Men and women have different goals on average. Everyone wants to believe in a fairy tale unconditional love scenario but it's rarely so.

[–]MischievousCarrot 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice, nice, now do this but with unemployment.

[–]Rapskallion_Pancake 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm not surprised. It's more fucked up when men abandon their children so this isn't really shocking.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand how this occurs, my husband lives for our kids. My father dumped me, but he is? Was? A horrible walking peice of shit.

[–]Rapskallion_Pancake 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whatever your father had, your husband has in him too. That's just the truth.

Being born a man means you have a predisposition towards status, hierarchy, violence, callousness, risk-taking, and sex that no woman can empathize with. Most guys are too emotionally unaware to accept these truths about themselves.

That's why the difference between successful and unsuccessful men is so vast. A man who knows how to carry himself in the world with honor takes on an almost ethereal quality; he needs a preternatural self-awareness and self-discipline to call on the better angels of his nature.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would argue that, but it's a discussion for a different place.

[–]Rapskallion_Pancake 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fair. I'm just saying that if you take what I say at face value and keep it in mind, you'll never be surprised.

[–]FaxSpitinLegSpreadin 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The man can do whatever he wants and she isn't owed anything.

[–]plumtastic 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No one owes anyone anything. You could walk past a person dying on the street and not help, and it's not against the law. The thing is married partners are supposed to care about each other. In theory lol. Crazy right?

[–]kalashhhhhhhh 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hate to be this person, but in some jurisdictions even if you see a person dying (e.g. drowning, choking, passed out) and you KNOW how to help them but don't do it on purpose, you are guilty of murder by inaction.

I absolutely agree with you second point. Married partners are under a legal oath, it's highly expected for them to stick around in sickness and health, it's a despicable thing to leave your spouse for.

[–]FaxSpitinLegSpreadin -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

that legal oath nowadays doesn't mean anything and can be broken for whatever reasons like the wife losing attracting or being bored

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly, this makes me sick to my stomach to think about someone divorcing their spouse when they're sick/down on their luck/hit a rough patch in their job/etc. I'd shun anyone I knew who did such a thing.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're thinking about it through the prism of the bias of those who wrote the headline. The reality is often far different e.g. arguing for years, dead bedrooms, hen-pecked husbands, continually belittled, nothing is ever good enough, despite him working and being her carer, etc. until the entitlement just gets too much and he decides he's finally had enough.

[–]HushPuppy1993 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well even if, a decently virtuous man would never do such a thing.

[–]Character-Current-57 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have a hard time believing this. I could see them looking for outside sex.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can too. I feel like men do the outside sex thing a lot.

[–]Character-Current-57 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not just that. If a guys wife hit some mortal illness or injury. I see them riding it out. If they were young some would be looking for an arrangement to get laid.

[–]Laytheblameonluck 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't say that men are more likely to divorce a sick wife. And it doesn't mean it either.

Explanatory factors like illness causing financial hardship, relationship stress, negativity ...etc

[–]boofthegirlHopeless Romantic 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The oncologist literally told my auntie to prepare for divorce after her diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. It was like in the whole spiel like “here’s our recommended treatment plan, these are the side effects that you can expect oh, and, also, probably get a good divorce lawyer”.

Thankfully, my uncle is a great husband and he’s now a great single dad since my auntie passed leaving him with a 2 and 4 year old.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am so sorry for your loss

[–]boofthegirlHopeless Romantic 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s okay! My auntie died about 10 years ago. My cousins are whole teenagers now and doing amazingly!

Our family still pays memory to my auntie at all funerals and weddings and we just had a 10 year memorial for her in March.

Cancer is a horrible thing but thankfully my uncle isn’t a piece of shit and kept it together for the kids. He is still an amazing single dad.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My mother in law has pancreatic cancer as well, she was diagnosed with it just before mothers day, and it has absolutely destroyed her, cancer is vile. It's sweet how your family pays tribute.

[–]beleidigtewurst 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honest take is that SOME STUDIES SHOW that, while others don't.

In the very study (UK, NHS) they found that only 6% of such marriages end up in divorce (24% end in widowhood, so spouse death is 4 times more likely, than divorce).

But the HIT here is that:

wife’s illness onset is positively associated with 1% higher probability of subsequent divorce

Yes, you read it right, 1 percent higher probability of men divorcing a wife that is ill.


TLDR; minuscule effects at play, nothing to see here, essentially a clickbait.

[–]abagus101 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would say it's probably the same reason more men abandon their children, it's pathetic and inexcusable though. I think the duty of married men is to serve their wives until they die, regardless of circumstances.

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[–]TermAggravating8043 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This study honestly frightens me, I don’t like being taken care of and I don’t like asking for help, but in my time of need for my partner to just abandon me cause I’m no longer useful, it’s horrific.

There was a story on Reddit from a women in her late 50’s, been married 30 years, she got cancer. She was forced to move in with her sister because she physically couldn’t manage in her own house and her husband wouldn’t pick up the slack in housework and complained constantly about her being lazy and having to do anything for her.

Within a month he’d moved a younger women in since he “struggled on his own” and used her leaving the house as grounds for divorce.

What made this even more terrible was the husband had had a moterbike accident 15 years previous and spent 4 years having to re-learn to walk/talk and go to the toilet. She was with him the entire time, even changed round their house to make it easier for him. When she asked him about this and why he wouldnt he do the same for her his response was simply, “Nobody asked you too”

Tbh, this study, and the comments in this sub are reminders that some men will never take responsibility for their actions, anytime there is any kind of criticism of a man on this sub, it’s always defended, deflected or branded as lies, even when it’s about male violence.

[–]The9thElementNo Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And Idiot red pills and MRAS foolishly claim that women are loved unconditionally. FOH Women are loved based on what they can do for a man in their life whether it’s their father, husband or son. once a woman is useless to a man especially her husband there’s no love. I hate people

[–]poppy_blumonogamous slut apparently 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Her fault for getting sick

[–]zoloftabuser 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Finally, something we can both agree on.

[–]jackedsoonwhite men cannot be incels -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My star sign is not compatible with cancers

[–]SaladPricesTooDamnHi 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Until death do us apart.

[–]Sad_Entertainer6312 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's only shitty men who do this. I can understand how it happens though. Those men want to be taken care of, and when the roles are reversed they lose interest.

[–]ThorLivesSkeptical Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just some clarifications:

however in the case of serious illness, men tend to divorce their wives in higher rates.

The study says that they didn't track who divorced who. For example, if a woman was sick and divorced her husband, they don't actually track who divorced who. It's an assumption that the man initiated the divorce, but we don't know for sure. It does seem intuitive that a sick person wouldn't file for divorce, although I have heard of it happening. There's a podcast called "Dying for Sex" that I listened to a while back where a woman was diagnosed with terminal cancer and she divorced her husband to live the last months/year of her life sleeping around.

Also, one of the odd things in the study was that heart disease and stroke were associated with an elevated risk of divorce (about 2% higher risk of divorce), but cancer and lung disease was NOT associated with an increased chance of divorce. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think stroke, because a person can come out of that severely disabled and may struggle to function

[–]SteveSan82 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mentally Ill ones yes

[–]Sigma_Fang1 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Former marine, women are more likely to leave a wounded wounded warrior. quit virtue signalling. you dont know what the fuck youre talking about

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Dude, I was just asking for men's thoughts on the study, which if you read the comments, was retracted at some point. I was just curious how men felt about the assertion of this idea. I in no way lambasted men, nor did I say anything against them. I have even commented that it is easy to see how a realtionship could dissolve.

[–]HazyMemory7They hated me because I spoke the truth -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Very telling that despite that being the case women still initiate a 70-80% of divorces. And make up 98% of alimony recipients.

[–]AntWillFortune15Treacherous Snake 💜 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Calm down. Alimony is only awarded 10% of the time and the reasoning is because men choose women that make significantly less/SAHMs. It’s tired…

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have feelings about alimony. If the man cheats or abuses, then it should be given, otherwise grow up and get a job.

[–]CanYouTieThemInABow 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Meh. If a woman was a SAHM and sacrificed a lot to keep his career on track, that's also a good reason for alimony. I know a good number of older women who work full time now, but would be in financial trouble now without alimony because they were always the ones making career sacrifices for the kids.

[–]anon018274031 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s not what alimony is for.

It’s pay back for the financial sacrifices a women makes in a relationship. If a woman enters a relationship and takes on the housework/childcare etc and due to that has to cut her work hours/halt career progression the assumption is she does this because her husband will be the financial support. If a divorce happens the money is to make up for the fact she is possibly decades behind on her earning potential because she was busy supporting him.

[–]ConsultJimMoriartyGen X Gay 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

But what's the percentage of women who get alimony? I am spitballing here, but I would guess it would be under 50%.

[–]HazyMemory7They hated me because I spoke the truth 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dunno the exact number but it's quite a bit less than 50%

[–]ConsultJimMoriartyGen X Gay 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would imagine so. Most wives are still working.

[–]DevilishRogueKnows more than you 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

IIRC it was just under 3% of men get alimony.

[–]Play_Mutedpost pic or didnt happen -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Idk how this has anything to do with me

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm just curious what men think about this? Is it understandable, fucked up? Ect. I know of one case where the guy super bailed, and a current case where one man is sticking it through despite how awful its become.

[–]howdoiw0rkthisthing 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Story of this sub.

[–]Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why would you wanna stay with someone who’s sick tf

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Please tell me you are being sarcastic

[–]Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No? It seems annoying and a lot of work. It’s best to move on

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's cold

[–]Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I lost my job she’d probably file for divorce. Life isn’t fair

[–]FrostieTheSnowmanPerplexed Fellow 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People really suck sometimes. It would appear that statistically, in this situation, men suck more often.

[–]MSotallyTober 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ken Watanabe did, no?

[–]gladusgatesBlue Pill Man 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do I think of it? It's obviously shitty, but men require consistent sex in a relationship. A woman who is unable to provide that is under some level of risk. Same thing goes for a man who is financially inadequate, he is also under risk of divorce. Again, it's shitty, but I am not surprised.

[–]Complex-Glass-8539 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Womens body breaks down men leave, mens financial support breaks down women leave.

We all provide utility to our partners, on a macro level, it plays out. The number one reason for divorce is money….and that sure as shit isn’t having too much of it, and with 2/3 of divorces being by women that money is men not making enough or spending it in the right ways….so men do have there side of this arrangement they leave over, and it’s the body, a woman is valued for her body, a man is valued for his utility….his utility diminishes, he gone. Her body fails her, she gone. Neither of those are the “usual” outcomes, usually a woman stays with a man when he loses his job. Usually a man stays with a woman when she gets sick….but both instances mean they are at a higher risk of their partner leaving.

[–]Bardox30 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I guess it might has to be with women socially being perceived as caretakers and sex providers. In contrast with men, who are seem socially as money providers, and partners are more willing to leave them because of losing job or having no money.

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure the point your trying to make here. We all know the story of a man losing his job followed by his wife leaving him and taking the kids.

[–]LearnDifferenceBot 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

point your trying

*you're

Learn the difference here.


Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply !optout to this comment.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't. Read again, I was asking how men felt about this study. I just wanted discussion and opinion.

[–]kinhk 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I mean nothing much can be said about it besides the fact that it’s fucked up. Idk if your gonna find many dissenting opinions, but I maybe wrong ya never know.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

But do men see potential for this? Or does the average man feel that this is an aberrant anomaly? (I'm voting this) My view, as a woman is that if there is divorce, there likely is extra extenuating factors involved.

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Men will absolutely leave if the illness prevents sexual or intimate contact for long periods of time. That and his partner cheating are really the only two things I can think of causing a man to file for divorce.

[–]foxbirch 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Silent Hill 2

[–]_xschittyusername 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My partners Stepdad looked after his wife my partner and my partner's little sister after their mother (his wife ) passed away from cancer. He continued to raise them and also he isn't the biological father either. The biological was a horrible person so she made it that he couldn't hurt her or the kids.

Fast forward some years, the sister's she's all grown up in college still living at home and he had settled down with another lady who also has two children m and f their dad also a piece of poop left them. His now wife has been diagnosed with cancer. He's still with her looking after the 4 young adults.

Knowing all this just makes me love and appreciate my partner's family so much more, life really threw some heartbreak at all of them but they are doing well and my FIL has been by all their sides since day dot.

Story two

My best friend from school's mum was diagnosed with breast cancer she's basically the mum I never had, her husband was on an oxygen machine but they worked together to look after one another. Her husband's lungs packed in heartbreakingly. But she had beaten cancer. (Caught it early very lucky) fast forward after his send away to the afterlife she got breast cancer again. This time it really came back quite aggressive and she was really sick. This time she was also heartbroken and depressed and suicidal. She wasn't the same person was always hysterical in emotion. She beat it again but lost all her hair down to chemo etc.

Some months later she has stomach cancer but she keeps going. She got herself a beautiful wig to help her feel better about herself my friend joked she was looking for another man. But she snapped and was like no. I don't want anybody else he and you are what get me through. I only ever loved one man in my life. That was your dad.

[–]tommysamson 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

women are more likely to divorce a broke husband

[–]abaxeron✴️Indian Programmer 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

men, what you think of this?

Considering and putting aside that you've already been shown the study had a massive coding error that authors admitted,

when we guys point out that women initiate (statistically significant) majority of divorces and (statistically insignificant but observable) majority of breakups, we're often faced with the same repeated mantra. "What if he was abusive. What if he cheated on her. Anyway, it's her choice and none of your business". In some sense, I'd gladly just say that women's movement turned divorce into almost a civil right, and marriage into a joke, so any event like this (being dumped bc of sickness) is nothing but women facing consequences of their own collective choices.

But then I also remember that almost all of "men bad" arguments and "evidence" have a half-life of about six months. "1 in 5 women" are raped on college campuses, and yet millions of them apply and enroll in colleges, these brick and mortar rape factories, as if their lives depended on it, no matter how useless the degree is. Men, it would seem, rape and kill their spouses at enormous rates, and yet women wear the fanciest dresses to their weddings and invite dozens of friends and relatives to celebrate. Workplace harrassment, it would seem, affects every woman who has ever spent more than a month in employment, but don't you even dare to think of obvious solution of segregated workplaces.

Because nobody in their sane mind really takes this nonsense seriously; especially women themselves. I've seen it so many times that it got me disincentivized.

When some "evidence" that "men bad" surfaces, gets circulated in the media, gets wide discussion and raises massive public awareness, BUT results in zero change in people's behavior, it means that this evidence most likely is either flawed, incomplete, or both. Sometimes it takes several months to find out how exactly. Sometimes longer. In case of this particular study, this article was written four years after its publishing:

https://observer.com/2019/08/medical-divorce-grim-reality-expensive-health-care-bills/

The US has really messed up system of covering the costs of medical services. Some people use divorce as a means of reducing these costs. Simple as that.

[–]sorebum405 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The US has really messed up system of covering the costs of medical services. Some people use divorce as a means of reducing these costs. Simple as that.

It's interesting you mention that because I made a post that has studies from other countries with different results.

[–]Valuable-Marzipan761 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's bad and they shouldn't do it. I don't really understand what you're asking.

[–]dbz19_kai 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are also more likely to do commit homicide. I think men are overrepresented in a lot of bad things, but at the same time the guys who do do this are outliers and pretty much skew the data and its no implication that average men are gonna do these things.

96% of homicides worldwide are committed by men. Does this mean every man is gonna kill their wife?

So most abandoning the spouse during sickness is done by men, but I don't think this implies average normal men around the median are gonna divorce their wife.

[–]chingness 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve heard a few accounts of hospice workers saying exactly this - it’s so awful to think of anyone doing this to anyone. In some cases apparently the dude is actively dating whilst the wife is dying in the hospice.. Widowed men are also faster to remarry after the death of their spouse…

[–]heartheartdoki96 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Wow not good sources at all. I've done my research and scholarly resources show me you're wrong. Keep spoon feeding me reddit and magazine articles though, makes you look so legit

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] [score hidden]  (7 children) | Copy Link

That was from the U.S. government research archives. Look at the address. It was redacted, as someone sent me a DM about and I have discussed this in the comments, your snarky comments make you look so legit.

[–]heartheartdoki96 [score hidden]  (6 children) | Copy Link

"It was redacted do dod do" good for you. Google scholar.

[–]Marzipan-Happy[S] [score hidden]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Pubmed , national institute of health, run by the United States Government. Peer reviewed articles only.

[–]heartheartdoki96 [score hidden]  (4 children) | Copy Link

Bro, google scholar. You're just saying look it up. Doing it. Your picture isn't proof.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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