Men criticize men more than women criticize men.

goldmedalflower · 2019-06-05T12:55:21+00:00

Respectfully disagree. The overwhelming reason men don't show more emotion is because they instantly lose respect from the women in the lives. Women allow men a few manly tears under the right circumstances (death of a loved one) and that is absolutely it.

sadomasochrist · 2019-06-05T12:36:12+00:00

TL;DR Don't be masculine and then talk to me about your problems when no one will fuck you because you aren't masculine. What you think is "men criticizing each other" are just natural forms of men helping other men. This is why women aren't allowed to be on TRP and announce it. Because if what they say works, they don't need to announce they're a woman. If what you say sounds like it would come from a woman, we would call that person a soyboy.

The way men help each other be masculine is through masculine forms of help.

E.g. tell men acting feminine to stop being faggots so they get pussy. This is not criticism, this is help.

Msmit71 · 2019-06-05T12:14:06+00:00

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

Two things there:

1) "It's okay to cry, just so long as your bad feelings are ones I approve of and for reasons I think are appropriate."

2) "I'll say that, but if you cry around me, okay - that's when I get weirded out and stop fucking you. But if you ask me intellectually, of course I'll give you the answer I think makes me look good."

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

It's not mean to tell a guy to straighten up and stop being a simp.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Female bullying in this regard is different: it usually shows up 1/10 of a millisecond after she realizes you don't want to fuck her. Then "you're clearly a closet homosexual fag."

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

I criticize it all the time, in fact I fundamentally disagree with it - nobody's called me a soy boy. So you're wrong.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want.....

You don't know what you want - we've sort of worked out what you do based on observation.

says_harsh_things · 2019-06-05T13:52:59+00:00

instead of talking to women about what women want

This has been argued ad nauseam on here. You of all people should realize that women are not honest about desires with bottom tier, unattractive men. I mean, is anyone?

Unattractive people of both genders are fed platitudes about women or men wanting someone 'nice/funny/kind' and then get all bent out of shape when they see that isn't the case.

When this point is made, a bunch of women chime in about how women have to do this because men fly off the handle if given the truth, or that they appear shallow, or that they dont want to hurt people's feelings. All of that is is understandable, but doesn't refute that women lie about what they want, rather it confirms it.

Then a few weeks later someone says 'why do rpers not listen to women about what women want?' and the whole thing starts over again.

Barely-moral · 2019-06-05T12:17:09+00:00

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

Do you know anything about male friendships? If a friend of mine has an emotional outburst he will not get any negative reaction from me. If I get to the point that I need to explode/vent and I do it in front of my friends I will not get any negative reaction. Sure eventually there will be some jokes because well intentioned humor is quite an effective healing mechanism but again... no negative reaction. If I have the same emotional outburst in front of a woman I lose her respect or her attraction pretty much inmediately.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)

And this is bad advice to most men. Men telling other men to stop acting in femenine ways is not criticism, it is good advice.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

I fail to see how this is relevant. It is not criticism, it is an insult.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Fair point. But it only applies to a minority of men.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

So... red pill men react badly when TRP recieves criticism. That sample is not representative of all men.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

Fisherman analogy. Women will not tell you what they want, it is better to ask a man that has some success in getting women, he actually knows what you can do to get them.

Eastuss · 2019-06-05T12:16:37+00:00

Women do not overtly criticise their men, however they reject men, and that's what matters to men. Being bullied is part of life and is not very impacting to us, because we're more combative and less neurotic and it has no real impact. But women rejecting us straight refusal to access an higher status, "a man women want sex with".

"Women hate when men show their feelings because it makes them unsexy.

While women won't hate talk on a man who shows his feelings, they'll leave them.

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry.

It's mostly been feminist telling guys they can cry, then they don't fuck or date them, but they can cry.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side.

Yes, my mother told me this! Then women didn't fuck or date me and mother told me to be more of a man.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

Men make fun of loser men, women don't fuck these men, again.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Women don't fuck them either, but for this specific case, they don't care.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

Almost as if decent debaters were kinda rare.

abaxeron · 2019-06-05T13:24:33+00:00

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry.

Straw. It's mostly been my mother who shouted at me and went ballistic if my eyes went a little bit puffy and red. Seriously, I can't say for everyone here or in the world, but the reason I found out in college that I forgot how to cry was because throughout my childhood, I was legitimately afraid that if I cry in the presence of my mother, she'll fucking kill me. I'm glad if my experience is not universal. But that's my experience.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side.

Men don't have "feminine side".

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

Yeah, women started radical feminism.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Prejudice against gay men is almost always justified by christianity. Women are the majority of supporters of christianity. Men are the majority of atheists, anti-theists, and secularists.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

Irrelevant to the titular claim.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

Irrelevant to the titular claim.

Transmigratory · 2019-06-05T12:38:37+00:00

Women criticise men more, though, they're more indirect about it and will either keep it to themselves or share it among their female friends. Now, men... we're just open and blunt about it unless you know, they've lacked any real masculine influence in their lives i.e. the soy boy types.

As for your points:

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.
It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)
Women didn't start the soy boy meme.
From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.
When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.
I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

You're right re the physical attractiveness, though, women won't often tell men about that part. The thing men complain about is that women will never get to the point and only come out with nonsensicals like "be yourself".

There's the notion, which most men will say is true: what women say and actually do is different. A crying man mostly won't be received well. Unless you're in a deep relationship... i.e. you've defo got the commitment.
Depends on the woman, and you're right about the physical attractiveness part as I said... but generally it goes back to what women say and do and women say they like men to embrace their feminine side but they generally go for guys who do not. Again, it seems to work if the man/woman are deep in the commitment side of things. Apparently, women who are ovulating tend to fantasize about masculine men, even in a relationship if their man isn't particularly masculine... yet they don't have such fantasies when their man is already masculine. Food for thought.
Women didn't, of course. They probably thought something similar, but didn't say it. But men have been rinsing men like this from ages from calling them betas, cucks... soy boy is the new cool term.
I can't argue here, though, are you implying girls have shown no instance of homophobia i.e. the expression of homophobia is a very male thing?
They're kinda right. As a woman, you will not have grown up as a guy so you will not appreciate the nuances of what they talk about. As sexist as it sounds, only a guy will know. Not the soy boy types, tbh. Actual blokes. Its no different to women saying that men do not understand the MeToo movement or feminism in general. In fact, we get slapped with the "privilege" card when we so much as say we think some parts aren't accurate.
Ever heard of the saying "don't ask a fish how to catch fish, ask the fishermen". Same deal. For eons, guys have never gotten the girl by listening to their female friends... they seem to have better luck following their guy friends who tend to be good with women. The only exception could be if the guy is good looking enough... but in that case, he probably wouldn't need guidance from his female friends anyway.

In short: women probably criticize men more, but aren't upfront about it. Don't you tell me that the sex which overanalyses EVERY LITTLE THING doesn't criticize more. I bet women will critique things men didn't even think would be criticized!!

Though, I suspect there's more behind this post considering points 5 and 6....

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2019-06-05T13:07:15+00:00

I find it funny when I see the whole "Women are so mean to men" thing here. Most popular in the form of "Women hate when men show their feelings because it makes them unsexy.

I haven't noticed that many people complaining about women being mean to men (although there are some). More often than not, women are being criticized for their hypocrisy. Women often talk it up about being "strong and independent," but when the rubber meets the road, they're not really that at all.

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

That may be more of a cultural thing. In some cultures, men are more demonstrative of their feelings, although in the Anglosphere, we're taught to be more stoic and "keep a stiff upper lip."

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)

I'm not sure that women are doing men any favors by telling them to embrace their feminine side. I think that women say this so as to be consistent with the feminist narrative about "strong and independent women" who tend to embrace their masculine side. But a lot of men simply aren't buying this, as it doesn't appear genuine or sincere.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

It's just the latest euphemism for "wimp" or "weak male." It may be a holdover from the bad old days when evil patriarchy ruled the world. It seems to persist mainly because many self-proclaimed gender egalitarians don't believe in consistency or practicing what they preach.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

This is true for men in general. Even bullies were bullied by other boys. It's a natural process, a way of toughening up. I don't think that the processes which help boys become tougher, stronger, able to handle adversity, and survive in a dog-eat-dog world should necessarily be viewed as bad. Some would say that it's worse to mollycoddle men.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

I suppose it would depend upon the nature of the criticism. When women criticize RP, it's assumed that they're doing so for selfish reasons, so their criticisms are viewed in that light. The assumption is that women don't really care about men as people, so it's natural that they would try to criticize, lambaste, or otherwise try to muck up anything that might be helpful to men.

Men who criticize RP (depending on what they're criticizing) might be seen as a weak link or possibly some kind of spineless, insincere suck-up to political correctness.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

That's because if you ask two different women the same question, you'll get three answers.

bostezo22 · 2019-06-05T14:25:29+00:00

All points are about what women say, not about what women do.

firewatchersdaughter · 2019-06-05T20:19:26+00:00

The need to always be seen as a confident and put together man comes from women. Brené Brown is a researcher who studies shame. I believe she has best written how men experience this.

"Most women pledge allegiance to this idea that women can explore their emotions, break down, fall apart—and it's healthy," Brown said. "But guys are not allowed to fall apart." Ironically, she explained, men are often pressured to open up and talk about their feelings, and they are criticized for being emotionally walled-off; but if they get too real, they are met with revulsion. She recalled the first time she realized that she had been complicit in the shaming: "Holy Shit!" she said. "I am the patriarchy!"

This comment is not based on personal opinion. It is research she performed parsing and codifying thousands of hours of interviews.

This quote is commentary to an experience she shared where she finally got her husband to truly open up to her. When he actually did, she said she felt afraid at first and then angry at him. Her knee jerk reaction was to tell him he had to stamp out those feelings. The reason for this was because it literally effected her livelihood. All this was coming from someone who is arguably the largest advocate in the world for people being vulnerable. She is THE definitive authority on vulnerability. She has litterally volumes on how her exact reaction is harmful, but she still felt it.

What she learned was that, contrary to her assumptions, men's shame is not primarily inflicted by other men. Instead, it is the women in their lives who tend to be repelled when men show the chinks in their armor.

“Men are smart. They hear us asking for their vulnerability, but are also very aware that we may act scared or resentful when they show their vulnerable side. You wouldn't believe how often men tell me, 'I pretend to be vulnerable, but I keep it under control,' or 'I give her enough to believe I'm being open because if I were totally truthful about how afraid or out of control I feel, she would judge me.' Underneath the pretending lies hurt, disappointment, and shame." She said that she is worried for her son, because when she thinks of him, she thinks of an interview she had with a man who told her "We have shame. Deep shame. But when we reach out and tell our stories, we get the emotional shit beat out of us".

She also told about a man who approached her and said, "My wife and daughters...they'd rather see me die on top of my white horse than watch me fall off. You say you want us to be vulnerable and real, but c'mon. You can't stand it. It makes you sick to see us like that."

This quote is a bit chilling to me when I think about the suicide rate for men. It’s 4X higher than women. The interesting thing is that women actually attempt suicide just as often. One thing I’ve heard is that part of this reason is that men are less likely to reach out when they need help. To me, this is an example of men literally choosing death over falling off of that “white horse”.

Toxic Masculinity is a female made phenomenon.

surreptitioussoidog · 2019-06-05T13:32:04+00:00

I pity the fool who gets sucked into this circle jerk.

GridReXX · 2019-06-05T14:57:53+00:00

It doesn’t matter if a boy is bullied by all the other boys. If his brothers pick on him more than his sisters. If is dad is cruel to him and his mother uplifts him.

If a girl doesn’t like him back romantically, he’s going to view it is as “women criticize men more.”

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-06-05T17:32:13+00:00

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

What are you even talking about here? Your unstable brain couldn't even convey an idea without taking a swipe at men right in your first point, no surprise here based on your username.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)

What's your point here? This phrase can be defined any number of ways, and it isn't usually a positive trait in a man.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

So? Women naturally avoid confrontation on a large scale because they are physically weaker. This is based on thousands of years of evolution and documented many places, before I get a " SOURCE? SOURCE? CAN I GET A SOURCE? ON THAT"

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Bullying is nature's way of weeding out weakness or odd traits. Being gay is not normal.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

The "Red Pill" community has "soy boys" within it as well. Also, no one can really define what the fuck this stupid phrase or community is. It means something different for everyone.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

LMfao. Women are the worst to pose that question to. There is a reason that it's a common saying that you don't do that.

Good ole' PPD. Still full of circular logic, arguments that go nowhere, and women and men taking little passive aggressive pissy swipes at each other going nowhere.

Msmit71 · 2019-06-05T17:42:41+00:00

Men: "It's been so long since I've had any physical intimacy, I feel so unwanted and unloved. It makes me think I must be unattractive and my self-esteem is in the pits."

Women: "Ugh those annoying men whining about their blue balls"

You literally disproved your own point.

HossMcDank · 2019-06-05T19:19:24+00:00

I'd say it's about even.

With #2, you're neglecting that these same women will resort to "lol male tearz fragile masculinity lol" when men do exactly that.

Also women seem to be the ones most often using "small dick" and "incel/virgin" when they lose an argument.

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87AudreyHorne · 2019-06-05T12:34:09+00:00

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)

From what i know the main complaint men have here is that women say these things in theory but in practice get turned off by them. While this isnt always true, a decent number of women do confirm this to be true. Or have a very specific idea in mind of what is considered a touching moment of openness, and what is just annoying whining, that the guy getting this advice can compeltely misunderstand due to lack of any specifics. I generally wonder for instance how good of advice is crying and opening up all the time in general, including for women - there needs to be a good measure of everything, including being a good judge of your surrounding, people you can trust, best ways of expressing yourself etc, which isnt reflected at all in this simplistic advice.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

No but there is such a thing as altruistic shaming which i think women lately have to not do to each other because its considered bad. I am not defending this particular shaming but from what i can see its not so much directed at individuals but to a type of men, with the message "dont be this because women tell you to, its a lie" - and I'm not going to comment on it, but its like when you see girls trying so hard to be cool with everything to get guys to like them, and men would say that behavior is so attractive because its basically being a doormat, but girls can tell her she needs to grow a spine and get some self respect. Its more "tough love" than anything because the concept is that those who encourage you to act against your own self interest (the opposite gender) also dont have your self interest in mind but their own.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

Everyone who doesnt fit in gets bullied by children. Girls are just the same if not worse. But being gay is less of an issue in todays world so it happens much less.

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy. I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

Back to my point that when it comes to advice about relationships and sex, the opposite sex (male.or female) often gives advice that reflects their self interest over yours. Your own gender will talk about their direct experiences to help you "win". Also it is good to question how good people are at introspection in the first place. I think giving advice about women as a woman (and same with men) often makes people take it too personally and involve their own ego - like "i see myself as this so i refuse to acknowledge that maybe a lot of other women are really different, in ways i wouldn't like associated with myself" or "let me use this as a chance to tell you how different and special i am". Its easier at times to give objective advice when nothing you say affects your sense of self. Finally, just how a man cant speak on behalf of all women, neither can you as a woman. Of course these topics impose the ability to generalize or else we wouldnt get anywhere, but i think a guy can do it just as successfully.

Having said all this i am completely critical of trp and I dont agree with its principles at all. But i think there is something to say about women just not being the best at giving advice about women.

Actuallyconsistent · 2019-06-05T16:34:35+00:00

Please, TALK ABOUT ALL OR MOST POINTS.

I dont want this to be about one point I made here.

No, as you've only made one point. Your point is that women don't openly criticize and make fun of men in public to their face. That is true.

But the reason isn't because they're accepting of all men. This connection you're trying to make is laughable. If you honestly believe that, you're being manipulated. If you do not believe that (more likely the case) you're just trying to virtue signal.

And before you retort, yes, it's completely possible you are sending a virtue signal to yourself

[deleted] · 2019-06-05T18:01:14+00:00

Could be worst, we could be women. Ya know, the life of men is so easy compared to women.

razenha · 2019-06-05T15:02:52+00:00

What? It's very rare to see a men criticizing another men. But you see women, specially feminists, criticizing men ad nauseum.

TheseNthose · 2019-06-05T15:26:14+00:00

Unseen_smile · 2019-06-05T16:03:08+00:00

Lmfao. 😂 No. No. Not true, women are just nicer about it in front of your face.

darksoldierk · 2019-06-06T00:20:16+00:00

Women don't explicitly say it, but they say it in other ways. If a woman wants a man to cry, the expectation is that she wants him to cry about what he thinks is worth crying over, and if it's blue balls, than that's what it is. You can't say "YEAH, men should totally have the right to cry! Just not about blue balls, or X, Y and Z".

Embracing your feminine side is more or less dooming the relationship that you have. Men simply say that to other men.

Because of women's behavior, generally, men have accepted the "you can't ask a fish about the best bait to use and expect an honest answer" mentality. Men don't ask women, because women bullshit. But women DO tend to speak with their body language and actions as opposed to using words, so yeah, a man who is the best person to ask about what woman want especially if that man has experience with woman and dealing with their non-verbal bullshit.

Anthony1881 · 2019-06-06T03:22:45+00:00

Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks...?

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-06-06T13:13:41+00:00

Men criticize men more than women criticize men.

Yes. men constructively critisize other men way more than women do.

if you are making something wrong at the gym, it is the gym's bro who will help you, of you are having troubles at your job it is a male coworker who will help you... etc.

Men in general will mostly, if perceived and/or with energy, helpfully critisize those in need. the reason they do not do it more is the "if perceived and/or energy" part. A man who has a lot of debt of gratitude obviously has a lot to gain after all. some men even risk their social standing by helping others too bluntly.

Women however will mostly not make an effort into giving constructive criticism... and will criticize in bad terms ("this is bad"), something that cannot me changed ("erk I don't like X kind of thing [which is integral to the work]) or even for social malice (like when they don't like a person).

in short. yes, "women are mean to men" not because they criticize them, but because they do not try to criticize to help... or at least it is by far not the first intent.

It's mostly been women telling guys they can cry. There's just a difference between crying over trauma and crying over blue balls.

You have commented and postsd about how

men HAVE to be productive, even against their will.
men HAVE to sustain others, even against their will.
men HAVE to protect others, even against their will.
men who do not want relationships are "crying"
men who do not want to deal with women are "crying"
men who see women nature and better themselves are "crying".

and each time men say that they have a choice you answer they "should stop crying about it"

...you are literally the proof that women do not work like that.

to you any time a man do not follow your ideals are crying and should "stop crying about it". your choice of words was terrible.

It's been women telling men to embrace their feminine side. (Keep in mind, that doesn't make him sexy if he's not physically attractive to begin with)

... why be feminine? it is literally going against ones choices of life. most men with feminine interests like myself (I like cooking) already do it anyway. men, unlike women, are not that affected by the view of others, unless it affect their objectives. being feminine is suffering to most men. if it does not help in their objectives and causes suffering, why do it? your view means little to us.

Women didn't start the soy boy meme.

"who starts doesn't matter, what matters is who continues" have your mother never taught you that? and women have way more criticisms of men than men do... most men will not talk about a man being short or homeless or unemployed or a gamer... etc.

From what I have read, gay men were typically bullied by other boys.

yes. children are cruel to different kids. the same apply to kids who are fat, thin, stupid, inteligent...

When I criticize red pill theory, I'm told "you're a woman, you dont understand men" but as soon as a guy criticizes red pill theory, he's called a soy boy.

you mean "blue pill". we call them blue pill. because those who chose to keep their heads on the matrix are considered blue pill.

I thought about this when I saw men telling men what women want..... instead of talking to women about what women want.

Because women mostly answer what is socially accepted not what is corred. i.e. the answer is mostly incorrect so other methods are used.

It is like asking what a costumer likes in a sex shop. you'll rarely get the correct answer. so you use sales data to make an approximation.

most people forget it but misinformation gives more damage than no info at all or limited information... thus you see men in TRP say "do X" unless asked. what TRP does is to say "women usually has sex with guys with X, try to get these traits."

[deleted] · 2019-06-06T15:38:00+00:00

The pillsphere is mostly about a gender war, and one side trying to outblame the other.

Hate the game, not the players. We’re all victims in different ways.

Men bully men more often than women do, but I’m undecided on who is the greatest oppressor.

Daerrol · 2019-06-07T01:27:16+00:00

All my dude friends are totally fine if I gotta cry. All my female friends are as well. I think if I was upset to the point of tears and someone wasn't supportive I would just stop being their friend.

gothpunkboy89 · 2019-06-06T01:52:19+00:00

Men are always men's own worst enemy but some like to blame women because it would mean having to accept we are the ass holes.

[deleted] · 2019-06-05T12:51:14+00:00

I agree. And they follöw it up with "but what about the MEN??!!"

Title	Men criticize men more than women criticize men.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	13
Comments	240
Date	June 5, 2019 12:05 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/bx1sbd/men_criticize_men_more_than_women_criticize_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-criticize-men-more-than-women-criticize-men.255446 https://theredarchive.com/post/255446