~ archived since 2018 ~

Men dont have much to offer in dating

August 15, 2022
7 upvotes

I think the reason for the increase in male dating struggles is they dont have much to offer.

If we look at straight relationships both parties provide love, support, etc but the one bargaining chips that men and women are different on is that men provided money and women provided sex. Men used to provide financially for the women completely. This was their main bargaining chip but now days the majority of men dont/cant do that. Men and women roughly earn about equal now days so men do not have the power financially.

Therefore the modern day relationship in most cases is unequal because women are providing sex but men are not providing financially.

This means women do not have the incentive to get into relationships and the only reason they would is if the guy is perfect and they really like him. I mean women can get sex, money, companionship, kids without even being in a relationship. Most men cannot get frequent sex outside of a relationship unless they pay someone so men have more of an incentive to date women. This means men need to up their emotional intelligence and personalities in order for a women to want to date him in todays society.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate.

/r/PurplePillDebate archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

Post Information
Comments

[–]NockerJoePervert Palpatine 31 points32 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

This is just my anecdotal experience but women who try to make men bring X Y and Z to the table are like 100x more likley to get played than a woman who just wants a relationship with a vaguely self sufficient dude. Because as it turns out, having an even regular person as a partner makes your life easier while requiring a dude who has to be tall and smooth and have money will mostly get you guys who max that shit out to fuck and those guys are rarely into actual monogamy.

I remember one woman being ultra happy with her boyfriend she got off Tinder. She swiped on him because he had a picture of himself in his (blue collar) work outfit and looked reasonably well put together. But I know someone who claims to have had over four thousand matches over the years but every relationship is a trainwreck because if a guy needs to be in like the 0.1% to have a shot thats a really specific kind of dude before lifestyle or morals enter into it.

[–]RedditBotFarmRepost 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed, Men with money are used to using money to get what they want, it is what they really do at work all day. There's a certain type of player (owns a restaurant) who are like experts at this. They are super transactional.

I knew this woman who was trying to run FDS gold-digger game on some rich guy, the dinners and gifts were great, but then she ended up in Mexico and realized she was about to get graped and barely escaped.

I have a decent career, and it's pretty obv if a woman is into you or into your wallet. The smart ones are future-time-oriented, like maybe there's a suburban white picket fence down the road, not just "dinners and vacations".

[–]NockerJoePervert Palpatine 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Running that kond of game is dumb as shit since it requires a young woman to believe they can outsmart an older man who by definition has a lot of planning and business accumen and a lot more experience in this shit.

[–]LotBuilder 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are correct that it is much easier to play women that care a lot about money. I have been blessed in life and have been successful: I happen to own a 72’ boat in the most exclusive marina in San Diego. I live in the Bay Area but I’m down there twice a week and I stay on the boat. When I am not there I have given my yacht captain freedom to rent it out. 90% of our rentals never leave the dock. It’s just older dudes trying to get laid late at night. He charges $1500 for 2 hours. Another $4k if they want to extend past the 2 hours. These guys have gone all in and can’t get embarrassed by getting kicked off “their own boat”now. It’s amazing what these dirt bags will pay but the girls are not innocent, they are only there because they want his money. It’s easy for that to be used against then.

[–]dukesaces 18 points19 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

You're right for the most part. Average men and average women don't bring much into a relationship. The average man used to be able to provide for his family, that was his bargaining chip but with women entering the workforce and wages stagnating but prices rising it isn't that men dont want to but they can't provide for the family anymore. Thus the average man doesn't really have anything to offer women anymore, not even kids because she can just buy sperm and impregnate herself which is why relationships and marriages are declining each year.

Now when it comes to women the average woman has nothing to provide but pussy. However men can't just generate pussy or enter the "pussy workforce". Women have realised this and have commodified sex. True feminism is dead and women have begun to use their pussy to gain sexual access to much more attractive men (who will only pump and dump them) or to directly sell it to the average and below average men in the forms of direct prostution and onlyfans/eprostitution.

Ultimately this is gonna create a huge cadre of lonely and depressed men that are disillusioned and angry with society. Many will be preyed upon by sex workers and turned into paypig simps. Many will become angry incels that will attack women. Neither is a desirable outcome.

Ultimately society is fucked and will only go further and further downhill from here until the balance of power readjusts, most likely via commercialized sex robots.

[–]BlackjointnerD 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sadly you might be right. Men and women will suffer because of this. Men will die alone because they're unattractive. Women will die lonely (with men they don't even like,settling) cuz they've been completely masculine/promiscuous into their 40s and/or can't lock down the small minority of men they are attracted to. 17 women for every 1 guy.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women will die alone anyway because they live longer than men.

[–]FFTzzzIslam is wrong about everybody. 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is slowly changing. Men are more and more concerned with their health and avoid risk more and more. They will eventually learn to get over women and probably live even more once they don't have somebody nagging the life out of them.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds positive, but it's not a reality yet. Covid has worsened health almost everywhere. And it has especially affected men, so for some time the difference in life expectancy between men and women will be even greater.

[–]dukesaces 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah male and female loneliness will only increase not decrease unless something changes in a major way.

[–]vogel777 3 points4 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

The average women isn’t on onlyfans, engaging in eprostitution or getting pumped and dumped. Women want more from men than just sex and money isn’t a bargaining chip nor should it be. Women want connection and partnership but if men can’t provide that then better to be single. Sex robots will only further stunt men’s development but at least they may aid in ridding women of unwanted attention from unwanted men who are unsuitable as mates and fathers.

[–]dukesaces 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The average woman is more and more off late on onlyfans, engaging in eprostitution or getting pumped and dumped. Selling your body and hookup culture is becoming increasingly common and is being pushed heavily by the media.

It's fair enough for women to want more than just sex and money but quite honestly the average man does also provide companionship and a partnership, it's just not as glamorous and amazing as the shit women see on social media and in romantic movies. Also, the average woman does not have more to offer a man beyond sex themselves. They aren't any better at providing a connection and a partnership, than is the average man and they lack the skills that they used to have in the past. They only really bring less money than they spend and a worthless college degree into the relationship. They're kinda suck at providing those same things that they demand from men. The men of today provide about as much as the men of the past did. The women of today provide a lot less while asking for a lot more.

I agree that it's better to be single, for both genders than to pair up because it's a shit deal for men and women, both cannot provide all that much to each other. Sex robots may further stunt male development but at least these men won't be taken advantage of and be preyed upon by sex workers the porn industry and red pill influencers.

[–]vogel777 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Only fans has just over 1 million content creators globally out of 7.5 billion people. Not all of those content creators are women and not every account is pornographic. There are approximately 4 billion women in the world, even if 1 million of them were creating pornographic content on only fans that would only be 0.025% of women globally on only fans and in reality it will be less than that.

Your belief that the average woman is doing this is false and perhaps skewed by the content you consume online creating a false impression of women. Apply this same analysis to all your beliefs about women and you will undoubtedly find a similar pattern of skewed perception and false beliefs.

[–]dukesaces 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Of the 4 billion women in the world a lot of them can be discounted as potential partners due to language barriers, age, etc. Despite that i get your point but I'm not only including onlyfans content creators. I said women that sell their body in general (which is many, many times more than 1 million) and promiscuous women (which is more the norm today than the exception).

Apply this same analysis to all your beliefs about women and you will undoubtedly find a similar pattern of skewed perception and false beliefs.

I could say the same for your skewed perception and false beliefs that the average man does not provide good companionship or a good partnership.

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The average woman is more and more off late on onlyfans, engaging in eprostitution or getting pumped and dumped. Selling your body and hookup culture is becoming increasingly common and is being pushed heavily by the media.

Good God man. Step away from the internet.

[–]harrowmysparrow1 points [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link

Why would sex robots stunt men's development lol?

[–]vogel777 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

Because as humans our interpersonal development and growth is facilitated through our relationships or attempts at relationships with other humans. A sex doll by creating a proxy for that human relationship but removing all the actually beneficial feedback good and bad that one gets from another human being will impede development. A robot programmed to mindlessly serve you will not provide the same real time feedback a human would. Sex robots are an escapist strategy and a dead end for individual growth but it still an option many will choose, look at all the opiate addicts for example.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

OP wrote that men's bargaining chip was that they provide finance, women's bargaining chip was that they provide sex.

If women benefited from not needing men to finance them now. Why shouldn't men benefit if they don't need women to provide them with sex? More freedom for both sexes, right?

Why should being addicted to sex from women be more beneficial for men than being addicted to masturbating with sex robots?

[–]returning_op2 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I kinda disagree. What made me better at the dating game than before was actually caring about me and what the girl can bring to the table instead of constant worrying how I can prove I'm worthy - because now I go into it thinking: yes definitely, actually show me that my life would be better with you. I achieved that through increasing my physical fitness, this netted me nicer responses to my approaches which made me try more and actually improve my communication skills.

I think if we take male thirst out of the dating game, it could have the same effect of not caring and wanting actual life partners instead of many men only looking to fuck on dating apps and overcrowding them - because getting off they can do whenever they want, but an actually human being that you can bounce of your ideas from and get introduced to new ideas from her is still desirable imo.

Think about it, do you even want men out there overcrowding dating apps with the only goal being to have sex? Wouldn't it be better to get rid of that and only have dudes on their who actually look for relationships? I think it would be better for everyone involved.

[–]womandatory 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you’ll find men commodified sex. Women are just trying to take advantage of that. Don’t get me wrong, liberal feminism isn’t something I subscribe to, I think it’s awful, but I don’t blame women for trying to make a buck out of something men want. I’d much rather see women just stop dating men until they step up rather than trying to compete with men at their own game.

[–]dukesaces 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men didn't commodify sex. They may be the primary consumers for sex work but that's because it's ridiculously easy for a woman to get sex because men have a higher sex drive but it's a lot harder for most men to get sex. A few elite men and a large number of women took advantage of this and created the sex work industry (with the exception of actual prostitution which has been around forever but was also the result of women commodifying and taking advantage of their pussy)

Do you also think selling drugs is okay? There's clearly a large demand for it and drug dealers aren't forcing you to buy those drugs. The damage it does to society and the lives of drug consumers shouldn't be the fault of the dealers then because theyre just meeting a demand.

I’d much rather see women just stop dating men until they step up rather than trying to compete with men at their own game.

Why do men have to step up and not women? I agree that men need to improve themselves but you do realize that most women have literally nothing to offer to a man, they bring nothing to the table. They actually bring less than their ancestors did and sex isn't as tantalizing a reward as women may think it is. Rather than work their asses off to improve themselves and get rejected over arbitrary traits like height or the way they look, why shouldn't men just pump and dump women and stop dating them all together? Most men would be fine with FWB only relationships.

[–]womandatory -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Prostituted women were originally slaves, so no. If you’re going to make statements of fact, at least try to be historically accurate.

[–]No-Prestige-9484 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Prostitution isn't just older than slavery, it's also older than humanity itself. It has been observed in primates and other animal species. There have likely always been women who voluntarily exchanged sex for material resources.

Slavery didn't exist anywhere until the Neolithic Revolution, which started around 10,000 B.C. Only then could slavery be viable. It didn't even exist in most places until after the Neolithic. Egypt didn't have slavery until the Old Kingdom.

[–]AutomaticMeaning3844 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

An individual man doesn't, but women depend on men as an aggregate for their self esteem and mental wellbeing.

Women's self esteem is built on male attention. It's just so abundant and from so many different men throughout her life, that it's taken for granted. One man doesn't seem significant, but the attention of all the men in her life added up is significant to her mental health.

Women can easily get it, so they don't make too much effort to get it and don't think too much about it, but it doesn't mean they aren't completely dependent on it.

We all can easily get water and make little effort to get more water, but water is a core and needed substance of our body.

[–]Kentucky_Supreme 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've always wondered what would happen if every guy just dropped off of social media for a week or maybe a month. What would all of these twitch streamers, IG models, OF models, etc. do? I've heard some women have elemental breakdowns if their photo doesn't get enough likes on IG or some shit, lol.

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker 9 points10 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Men don’t have much to offer in dating if they’re determined to stick with the old models of manhood.

If you recognise that the old provider/protector model is obsolete, and you need to offer something else, you tend to do better.

[–]PrinceBagratoni 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's the opposite. Men who fall behind at classic models of manhood are the ones who don't have much to offer. I won't listen to the blue flaired users who argue the opposite who 99/100 times end up with a guy who wouldn't stick out in a college fraternity.

No other assumption is so clearly proven to be untrue if only you went outside. Women's preferences in men are much more conservative than vice-versa.

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Manhood isn't some immutable fact. It's pure social construction. There is no "classic manhood". It's a contrivance.

I look at how radically different the men of my father's generation are to mine, and how radically different the men of my nephew's generation will be to mine, and I am filled with hope.

I'm tall, bearded, athletic, covered in tattoos and work in a stereotypically "manly" trade job.

I will also tell you masculinity is a prison, and encourage you to be your authentic self so fucking hard.

[–]No-Koala5505 1 point2 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Okay. So what can an average man provide in a modern relationship?

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker 7 points8 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Love, support, companionship. Sensitivity. A sounding-board and counsel. Good sex. Caring. A manly chest to cry on. An equal share of housework. Financial contributions (as distinct from providing. Calm down.)

Also - lawn mowing and spider-killing. Some gender roles refuse to die.

[–]No-Koala5505 3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Ya da, ya da… it’s easier to hire someone to do the household chores and get a fuck buddy. This way you don’t risk having to split your hard earned money with anyone.

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker 7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If you think sex is the sole purpose of being in a relationship, sure.

But that’s a pretty stunted and self-absorbed vision of a partnership.

[–]RIPGeorgeHarrison 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Literally can’t even imagine that fir most people paying someone to do household chores isn’t an option.

Maybe the people who say women view the world through a lens of solipsism are right.

[–]melody_of_No Pill 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Those things are In abudance as much woman claim to the contrary. Even if a man is offering all of those hes the hundredth person to offer them in a sea of men. So he still doesn't have anything to offer .

[–]SuperannuatedpunkSocial Justice Berserker 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And yet, we still pair up and fall in love.

WHAT IS THIS LUNACY!

[–]Kentucky_Supreme 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If money was the main thing incentivising certain women then were they ever actually attracted to men at all? Or just money?

Also, most women aren't swiping on dating apps for "emotional intelligence" and "personality" lol. Their biggest complaints seem to be that nobody's tall enough and nobody makes enough money.

Even if the vast majority of men could magically become 6ft+ and have a million dollars appear in their bank account, all that would do is become the new "average". Which is the exact thing women complain isn't "good enough". So you'd be right back to square one.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If men only like women with low n counts are they really attracted to women at all or just the idea she hasn't fucked many guys?

[–]Kentucky_Supreme 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's probably the most asinine and farthest reach of a comparison I've seen in here so far, lol.

The idea of sticking your dick in a petri dish and sloshing it around in a mixture of other men's semen is simply not appealing. (To most men, anyway lol). It's evolutionary psychology or something like that. Plus higher n counts mean a higher chance of STDs, paternity fraud, divorce initiated by the woman, etc. etc. And she's clearly not that special if everyone's had a turn.

[–]WOPR-1983 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Therefore, the modern day relationship in most cases is unequal because women are providing sex but men are not providing financially.

On average, men still outearn their partners.

This "CMV" is based on a fantasy of misinformation.

Which men are not providing financially?? Because he only makes "as much as her" and not twice as much?

What nonsense.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If he only makes as much as her he is not providing- they both are

[–]WOPR-1983 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And you said "not providing" in your post.

So which is it?

[–]FutureBannedAccount21 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Based on this post, I get the idea that you’re perpetually single and can’t maintain a long term relationship and instead of looking inwards and figuring out what’s wrong with you (lots of evidence in this post) you think men are the issue.

You say the guys you’ve met can’t open up emotionally or connect on a deeper level with someone. They can when they actually like the person

[–]Trishlikefish21 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Ive been in a relationship for 3 years :)

[–]FutureBannedAccount21 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I completely believe you

[–]Trishlikefish21 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Oooooo he's jealous!

[–]FutureBannedAccount21 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Who’s jealous? Of what?

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil.

[–]PresidenteWeevil 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Man provide much more than that. When there is a noise at 2pm, who is going to check downstairs?

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

do you mean am?

[–]blingbladeade 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Daylight crime rates are up🤷🏽‍♂️

[–]Thickcock_69 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women will go check because they are strong and independent 😂

[–]vogel777 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

When I was a post grad student I lived in a house share with 2 guys (we were all 23) on my course one night we were all woken up by a window breaking and intruders trying to gain access to the property. My two male housemates hung about upstairs wondering what to do while I flew downstairs putting on all the lights as I went shouting at the intruder to get the fuck out of my house. By the time I got to the point of entry all I saw was the intruders running off.

[–]birdmansandusky 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Anecdotal. You know what the consensus is

[–]AzihayyaWhite Knight, the Voice of Femnai -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Who gives a shit--it's a red herring anyway.

[–]abagus101 4 points5 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

This is a really good argument for why having women in the work force en masse is unsustainable for society in the long term. It will likely lead to war, even if you can permanently subdue the huge swathes of the new male underclass you'll still be faced with total demographic collapse, as women become more career oriented they become less and less likely to ever have children. Japan is going through this demographic crisis now and the western world isn't far behind.

[–]vogel777 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Women won’t go back into the home full time willingly a lot of women were never fulfilled or even that happy in that role so it’s not something they will ever give up. I don’t buy that a big enough percentage of men are affected by this issue for it to cause major issues, bigger issues are probably things like the free availability of hard core pornography and the chronic masterbating and unrealistic expectations it inspires.

An alternative solution is that men grow up and learn to be better partners to women.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Among porn consumers, hard core and rough sex are more popular topics among women than among men. Like double penetration and gangbang.

[–]vogel777 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I agree that porn is harmful to both men and women but my implication was that frequent hardcore porn escapism takes up precious time and energy and demotivates men from pursuing other goals. Perhaps due to its effect on dopamine baseline?

[–]MarBittNo Pill 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

On average, a woman spends more time per visit to a porn site than a man. In addition, many women who do not watch porn, read porn stories. And even if they don't consume any porn, they sometimes masturbate. And female masturbation also takes more time than male masturbation.

You are of course right about the fact that you can develop an addiction to pornography. Each thing usually has its advantages and disadvantages and I agree that porn has a lot of disadvantages.

But actually - how many men are addicted to sex with women in general and suffer when suddenly the sex is not there? Why should it be okay to motivate men to perform by using their addiction to sex with women?

[–]AzihayyaWhite Knight, the Voice of Femnai -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Omfg, this guy is here --> abagus101

Guy who is stuck in pre-industrial patriarchal politics, everybody. Civilization is gonna collapse, trade routes will shut down, and we'll return to feudalism because women are reaching for parity in power politics. It's the exact guy that the OP is talking about--you know the guy; models his love life after Picasso and Freud, compares the philosophy of Descartes and Kant--and he's one-hundred percent certain that feminist action has resulted in the dissolution of the nuclear family, the bedrock unit of civilization.

Why do you bother with this philosophy, bro? It's the 21st century. Intelligence and automation are advancing at neck-breaking speeds. Transhumanism itself is not distant on the horizon as we decide the human genome. Why do you think that human life lacks the ability to adapt? Demography disaster is not a certainty, nor does it necessarily mean civilizational collapse. Population is set to peak around 2100--if we were concerned about national security in the US, we could open our borders to immigrants. Jamie Diamond thinks we should.

What is so intimidating about women reaching power parity with men, anyway? That you might have to change your views? Your perspectives? Unlearn what you've been taught about women? About history.

Think about it, bro.

[–]md8716pp theorist 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a manufactured parity, though. It requires constant government intervention and legalism to achieve and enforce it, which works as long as there's a cultural will to do it. Women simply can't reach parity on their own efforts, men are just too strong and dominant.

But when that cultural will tends to evaporate (often in the case of pervasive poverty, violence, war, societal breakdown, etc.), then the parity goes backwards.

So the real question is, will we have the cultural will to enforce parity? My guess is yes, for rich, mostly white, mostly upper class women, and no for everyone else. It will be a false parity that only looks good on paper.

But something tells me that was the plan all along.

[–]abagus101 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think cultural suicide is an acceptable remedy to demographic collapse.

[–]AzihayyaWhite Knight, the Voice of Femnai 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cultural suicide.

It's just as good as I imagined it would be.

[–]abagus101 -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Moreover I think your biggest problems are going to come from the new male underclass, that is men who live their lives without ever finding a woman or having children, I think those men will become increasingly insular and violent as we've already seen unfold in real time. The unfortunate reality is that the current trajectory does not lend itself to long term stability, there is no social harmony or balance in gender relations today. Patriarchy in its classical form offers stability and social harmony for both genders.

[–]AzihayyaWhite Knight, the Voice of Femnai 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Fear of angry men who are unable to adapt to a world where women have parity in power, you're saying, is what should guide our civilization. This reminds me of when people like Tucker Carlson say things like, "With all these LGBTQ people we're reaching Weimar levels of degeneracy."--echoed by many conservatives (whose sole desire is to maintain the status of men as a gender class over women) who will say this as if to imply, "Uh oh everyone! We wouldn't want to elect another Hitler! That would be really bad--better chill out with all the queerness--not that I have a problem with it, but it leads to radicalism!"--they're really just biased.

Man, I really hope that your life philosophy is utterly eradicated. It's so backwards and unethical, and so, so utterly false.

[–]abagus101 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The issue is "women's parity" is artificially propped up by the circumstances of postmodern ultra consumerist society, it's not upheld by the laws of nature. All power is derived from the capacity to make war or inflict violence, all the way down to individual police officers enforcing the laws of the state. The reason the contemporary status quo doesn't work for millions of men is because it's essentially a grand social experiment with no historical precedent.

You can hope all you want man but I think a huge wave of backlash is growing in the US and across western civilization, we'll have to see if anything comes of it but I would caution against underestimating the deep dissatisfaction millions of young men feel about society today.

I would argue for a reasonable compromise that brings social harmony to both genders while avoiding a bloody and unnecessary conflict.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women's bargaining chip regarding the provision of sex has also changed.

Compared to the past, men have a much better chance of getting sex outside of relationships. Although not all of them do, a certain part do, and they are therefore much less willing to enter into relationships if they are young and sexually desirable outside of the relationship.

Just as fewer women need money from men, fewer men and women need sex from the opposite sex. From 1990 to 2014 the percentage of men who had sex with at least one man rose from 4.5% to 8.2%.

In a 2009 Dutch study, of the male participants, 7.9% had had sex with another man in the past six months and 7.1% identified himself as homo- or bisexual; among women, these figures were 5.5% and 5.9%, respectively.

In the past, there were already cultures where sex between men was considered equal or even more important and fun than sex between men and women. So the possibility that men in sex would largely shift to male-to-male sex is there.

When you add porn (which after all is watched more by men) and you take into account the huge potential in the sale of sex toys, including sex dolls/robots for men (which are still associated with greater social taboos), even a woman's bargaining chip for providing sex is changing

[–]PrinceBagratoni 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is this remotely true? Dating men is a hundred times easier and less emotionally burdensome because you aren't dealing with a leaky bucket that won't ever be filled who's constantly micromanaging your time or waiting for you to slip up. I cannot understate how mentally taxing it is to consistently play a very heteronormative role in a relationship.

[–]MischievousCarrot 1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I think the reason for the increase in male dating struggles is they dont have much to offer.

Women are more selective. Before dating apps, they had less people to select from.

Therefore, the modern day relationship in most cases is unequal because women are providing sex but men are not providing financially.

"Women don't like sex" is the most puritanical position I've read in a while.

This means men need to up their emotional intelligence and personalities in order for a women to want to date him in todays society.

Not to say men don't want relationships, but the difficult stage for a man to get is the sex stage. A man that can get sex, can get relationships.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

If women liked sex as much as men then guys on here wouldn't complain about not getting any hahahaha

[–]MischievousCarrot 2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Women like sex as much as men, and they, by definition, fuck as much as men do.

The difference lies in who they fuck with. An ugly, shitty woman can fuck quite attractive men and can afford to be picky.

An ugly, shitty man can't.

Your assumption would only work if every woman could only have sex with a different man.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

But if women and men liked sex just as much, women would not be able to control the sexual market place.

But hey maybe women do like sex just as much and men. So men should just stop complaining on here because apparently their is plenty of women around who want sex!!

[–]MischievousCarrot 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

There is. Those women can have sex with the most successful, attractive men. So they do.

[–]artrandenthi1 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

News Flash OP: Women need men and men need women. Period. We are all social beings, so we all need each other.

Yes. We are in a major transformation as a humanity and the sooner everyone agrees and figures out next steps, the faster this will be over and we all find a new normal. Thanks for listening

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought guys complained on here about struggling with dating? If women needed men this wouldnt be happening

[–]EasternToe3824 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you lower your contribution to a relationship to the level of a sex worker, you do not get to make a call for empathy.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sex workers get paid ALOT seems they are high value in society. If a man wants free sex he better be perfect.

[–]EasternToe3824 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So much for the „deeper level“ connections.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perfect as in attractive and great personality/connection. Stop assuming things

[–]mrjolly123 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Neither do women tbh

[–]bitchlodia 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just bcuz most women earn themselves doesn't mean they are not spending their partners money.

[–]OfSmokeAndFog 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the modern day relationship in most cases is unequal because women are providing sex but men are not providing financially

Most women give sex freely to the same guys, which means those guys have many options and don't have to commit to a relationship or providing financially. Women don't demand it from these guys in exchange for sex. If they did, you'd have a point. But they don't, so you don't.

[–]bighuddi 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

what are you psychopaths even on?? 💀 we fucking get it. you want Brayden & you only see Brayden. Brayden has never had to try. like an average woman. arrested development. Brayden is a fucklord. Good fucking grief we are out of high school but you're gonna bring that shit back??? that complaining about assholes shit???? cause it's deafeningly obvious that's what this femcel rant is.

[–]Trishlikefish21 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you on something?

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Imagine believing relationships should only exist if they're transactional.

women provide sex

How delusional

[–]boofthegirlHopeless Romantic -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is precisely why these people can’t get into a decent relationship

[–]vogel777 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think there is some truth in what you say, it’s not all men but many just aren’t that interesting or good company. They are often moody and immature which is draining and dull and they struggle with real intimacy. They are often highly entitled and demand a lot in terms of what they expect from women but offer little in return. Women can make their own money, have their own house, even have a kid on their own if they choose so men need to offer more if they want a woman’s time and attention and by more I don’t mean financially or materially.

[–]DaRealPoopster#AA0055 pilled 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do women provide? A dog/cat and a sleeve provide as much as a woman does, without much of the downsides.

Neither sex provides anything relative to eachother, so it’s useless to compare this.

[–]tonyghow 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

women are providing sex

Women take away or greatly reduce sex a few years after marriage. That's not a great "bargaining chip". It's bait and switch. See r/deadbedroom

men are not providing financially

Women enter the workforce, are approaching what men make, and you blame men for that? Don't blame men for restricting your own dating pool because you want someone richer and richer as you make more money.

men need to up their emotional intelligence and personalities in order for a women to want to date him in todays society.

That is the only sensible request. The rest of your rant post is junk. So stop with your gold digging and your transactional nonsense and look for a man for love and personality. Not his pocketbook or how much higher his status is so you can brag to your girlfriends.

[–]vogel777 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

a subreddit called “dead bedroom” is a self selecting group and doesn’t prove anything and even a quick look at it shows me that men also withhold sex from women.

Women don’t need a man who earns more and that’s not what the OP said, I can’t see how you could have read it like that except through the lens of your own preconceived ideas.

The last part, that you said was sensible is the actual point she is making, everything else you say is sheer paranoid projecation.

[–]tonyghow 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

men do not have the power financially

men are not providing financially

the majority of men dont/cant do that

Most of her post is about how men are failing at finances.

She could have cut out all that and made a single line title post asking, "Men should strive to be emotionally intelligent". Not all that nonsense about how men are inadequate financially.

If women didn't want a man who earns equal or more, she wouldn't have added all that.

No woman is going to "date down". She even says, "the only reason they would is if the guy is perfect and they really like him."

The sense of entitlement is through the roof.

Read her words again. A man must be "perfect" !

[–]vogel777 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I did read again and again you are reading through a heavy cloud of biases and seeing what you want to see here.

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

“Women don’t need a man who earns more”

Hard disagree

[–]vogel777 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You can disagree but that doesn’t make you correct, there are things far more important in a partner to women than money. As long as we have enough between us who cares who earns more.

[–]kinhk 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Plenty of women care. Actually I would argue the majority of women care. Go listen to em talk about the kind of guy they want. He’s always well off financially.

[–]Academic_Snow_7680 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This means women do not have the incentive to get into relationships and the only reason they would is if the guy is perfect and they really like him.

Oh honey, have you met men? None of them are perfect and neither are women.

Women are desperately trying to find a man that will CARRY HIS WEIGHT in the relationship. He doesn't have to out-earn her, he doesn't have to be perfect, he just doesn't have to be an entitled asshole that expects the woman to do majority of the work at home because of her gender.

Fair division of labor, that's clearly a dealbreaker for men because men would rather be single than provide that. As countless examples prove.

[–]MarBittNo Pill 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When he is alone, he has to do all the housework. So maybe that applies to men who live with their mothers and that's not the most popular type of man among women.

Fair division of labor can only be a problem for many men when it is combined with the fact that the woman wants to divide the work at home 50/50, but have 100% decision-making powers when and how the work is to be done.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah maybe guys should just be alone then- as you said they would prefer it than improve

[–]lectrohS_naisANo Pill[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair division of labor, that's clearly a dealbreaker for men because men would rather be single than provide that.

Meh this is just normal adult stuff that everyone does. I do my own clothes washing, dish washing, dust and vacuum the house, basically everything that women do. I personally don't think that is the reason men are single, most men are willing to do all those things.

The only thing that matters here is being attractive and tall. Men who are that can get away with a lot of things, especially household chores.

[–]Academic_Snow_7680 [score hidden]  (0 children) | Copy Link

You would not believe how many men I know that can't even manage to keep themselves clean, let alone their clothes or home.

One very sharp friend who works as a journalist is also a trash-hoarder. He's regularly kicked out of apartments for hoarding. While being an expert in his field.

Another friend lives alone on a farm and never meets anyone. Is deeply misogynistic and expects me as a woman to take care of all logistics as if I was his mother. Then he complains over not getting dates. He smells, his clothes smell, he's a mental teenager.

Third friend is a highly intelligent programmer turned politician. Keeps 3 cats. Smells like it. I've visited his home and it smelled so bad that I gagged. I couldn't sit anywhere because there was a thick layer of cat hair over all the furniture.

Highly intelligent men in good positions that can't be in a relationship with a woman (while wanting it) because they can't carry themselves as human beings. The emotional, logistical and mental load of living with such a guy is just not worth their emotionally stunted love in return. They are emotional children that lack the ability to see things from other people's perspective or understand that their spouse does not function like their mother, even though they feel entitled to it.

[–]throwaway02593 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

men provided money and women provided sex

Women are also interested in sex, and eye candy. Especially eye candy.

but now days the majority of men dont/cant do that

Just because you can't attract a provider doesn't mean other women can't.

Men and women roughly earn about equal

If that was true we wouldn't be hearing feminists constantly bitch about the "wage gap".

Married men earn 20k-ish more per year than married women do, on average. That's a pretty big difference.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women enjoy sex but not as much as men- hence how we have the power when it comes to sex. That's basic knowledge.

lol you have to resort to personal attacks when you dont even know me- you're a very emotional guy

Exactly, married men earn more, but what about all the unmarried guys? I guess they just be incels

[–]throwaway02593 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

lol you have to resort to personal attacks when you dont even know me

If you could attract a provider you probably wouldn't be complaining about men not being providers.

Exactly, married men earn more, but what about all the unmarried guys?

You said that men can't provide for women anymore, the fact that married men earn much more than their wives clearly contradicts this.

Men in general also earn significantly more than women so you're also wrong about men and women having similar earnings.

[–]Trishlikefish21 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Or maybe people just make equal amounts of money now days? lol.

Oh so you think the average guy makes significantly more than a women? you must live in a 3rd world country

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't make things personal

[–]InfamousBake1859 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is actually misognistic.

Women providing sex, are women prostitutes. Sex should be for both parties. Both should “provide sex”. Lol non sense.

But otherwise, yeah… men should learn to have a relationship with women,… not transactional for sex.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In a study of heterosexual encounters, only 50 to 70 percent of women reported having orgasms compared to 95 percent of men.

Statistics dont lie, evidently sex is better for men.

[–]Hodgkins_Fun_Alt -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the most straightforward thing a man could have to offer is an orgasm superior to one from a vibrator. But a good 50%-70% aren’t going to be able to give you one of those if you jump into bed with him, so what’s the point

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No man could be better than a vibrater- its just not physically possible

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Attention!

  • You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.

  • For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.

  • If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.

  • OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]CocoBabeNYC 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you 100%

[–]KayRay1994 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

soooo relationship = prostitution?

[–]CanYouTieThemInABow 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This doesn't take into account having and raising children.

A woman either needs to send her children to insanely expensive daycare (and probably cry about it tbh if this starts at the typical American timeline of 6 to 12 weeks postpartum) or drop out of the workplace for a while until the kids are old enough for school. Having a good provider makes a huge difference. And kids do better with a stable two parent household.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If what you said was true then women wouldn't be single mothers as often. Im not sure if you know but a lot of men make hopeless fathers and in fact increase housework for the mother

[–]CanYouTieThemInABow 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, I've seen that plenty and it's rotten.

But a man who can actually provide is truly very valuable during that stage. Even when he's not doing much else (though obviously being a good father and emotionally present husband is preferable). Single motherhood is not known for being fun and easy, you know? I don't think very many women want to be single mothers, it just sort of happens. Something like half of the babies born in a year are unplanned.

[–]Huellenthousiast 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or just maybe relationships aren’t only about money and sex at all

[–]hari_hbpNo Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

the one bargaining chip that men and women are different on is that men provided money and women provided sex. Men used to provide financially for the women completely

I thank the world this isn't the norm anymore.

Therefore, the modern day relationship in most cases is unequal because women are providing sex but men are not providing financially.

Women don't "provide sex" atleast, that's how normal men see it. The only way a relationship can be claimed unequal is the fact that women are the ones who get pregnant and are the majority users of birth control (even that would go away if there's a male birth control)

the only reason they would is if the guy is perfect and they really like him.

The only proper reason ever. Every other reason is stupid and harmful to both genders.

women can get sex, money, companionship, kids without even being in a relationship.

Agreed.

Most men cannot get frequent sex outside of a relationship unless they pay someone

Not true. Many men do have trouble finding a partner for sex/dating. The burden of the pursuer, accepting it is the only way out.

they pay someone so men have more of an incentive to date women.

No matter how desperate a man gets, he never should get into a relationship for just sex - insulting to himself and the woman. As for paying for sex, I personally see it just as insulting - no man should try to get with a woman who wouldn't be with him otherwise.

need to up their emotional intelligence and personalities in order for a women to want to date him in todays society. These should be developed for no other reason than his own mental health and happiness.

Some guys I've met just cant open emotionally or connect with someone on a deeper level

If that's what makes them happy, then I wouldn't stop them. If it doesn't, I hope they would change for their own sake.

[–]kinhk 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You forgot to add protection to that bargaining list. Men don’t need to open up their “emotional intelligence”. The main problem guys have with getting women is social awkwardness and lack of game.

[–]SkeletonMagi 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Vibrator tech must be as advanced as porn these days. Maybe men and women don’t need each other for sex at all…

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I would be happy without sex....

[–]kenshn1 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a shallow outlook. Both sexes should provide more than sex and money.

If a woman is only providing pussy she is a thot and will drop you as soon as a better option comes around or try and "open relationship" you into being a cuck.

If a man only provides money your only a sex object and he definitely has other ones.

Sex and money are important in a relationship like they shouldn't be slacking but those should be like 4th or 5th down the list of priorities.

In my opinion social media and a relative economic boom has just made people more shallow. Women just don't feel it as much yet because young women run those platforms, literally everyone likes young pretty women. But when their looks fade and they live with their 5 cats or as a single mother it's going to suck just as much as being a young broke unattractive guy.

[–]Trishlikefish21 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You missed the point of the post. Nice revenge fantasy though, most those women will actually get in happy relationships.

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil

[–]henryXsami99 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I miss when relationships was about to give just because you can, not to expect something in return

You give to make yourself happy by making them happy, their happiness is yours, but when transactions enter the picture, it becomes disingenuous...

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why would you be happy to give when nothings going to be given to you in return?

[–]henryXsami99 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

But you got something in return didn't you? You felt happy because they felt happy because of your gesture

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

For little things yes. However things like pregnancy I find extremely unfair naturally on women and I feel like a guys got to be bringing a lot to the relationship to help level things out when it comes to something like that.

[–]henryXsami99 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Again, is that enough to prevent to care about someone who you Love?

[–]beleidigtewurst1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

This means women do not have the incentive to get into relationships

Your jump from dating to relationships is formidable.

Let me tell you that "dating" means bang-bang.

Something quite different from "relationships" (essentially LTR)

People who state "men have little to offer to relationships" are, I guess, from that peculiar /r/FemaleDatingStrategy place.

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No circle jerking

[–]beleidigtewurst1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

No circle jerking

No circle jerking at all:

The primary litmus test the mods use to determine if content is circle jerking is Does this offer something beyond rhetoric?

Yes, the note that OP uses short term hookups and LTR interchangeably.

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't matter, the OP was removed anyway.

[–]insertcredit2Purple Pill Man - Married - INTP 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

Let's look at this another way.

Single men have it way way better than they used to. We no longer need a women to split the work load because the work load has been made easy with tech. we have roombas, dishwashers, washer dryers with anti crease function, online banking, all bills are done online, grocery's are delivered and things like gusto/hello fresh make cooking a breeze, we can work from home, amazon means we never need to go shopping, nothing is repaired any more it's cheaper to buy new, online gaming/social media/streaming services/porn/sex toys mean we're entertained and able to be social, travel costs a fraction of what it did in the 90s so we can go on holidays in a few clicks online.

A woman needs to bring more to the table now for things to be an improvement. So why should a guy bother committing to any women when her traditional role has become defunct like men's traditional role of bread winner has become defunct. All you really have to offer is "muh vagina" but all women have that.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Its cancels out anyway because guys no longer do many chores to the same extent and women do not do cooking/cleaning.

So what's left to offer: money and sex

[–]insertcredit2Purple Pill Man - Married - INTP 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If a man lives alone then he's doing everything. The reality is that doing everything used to be difficult so having a women to help you was a huge advantage. Now it's super easy to live alone, If anything living with girlfriends/my wife always felt like I had way more house work to do than I ever did living alone.

What do women offer a guy who lives on his own? Sex? well every women has a vagina so that's hardly special.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh so you get casual sex regularly?

[–]insertcredit2Purple Pill Man - Married - INTP 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm married but I never struggled when I was single.

[–]Trishlikefish2[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Being a sex worker is paid more than a doctor in my country, seems sex is valuable

[–]johnnybayarea 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

damn, what country do you live in?! That's some backwards shit.

[–]johnnybayarea 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems fair, if women have stepped up their game in earning potential, then it only stands that men must step up into the complete package in hopes to be a real partner. Even with that said, I think the 70c to a dollar quote still means something. While it doesn't mean that women are being unfairly paid for their work in the same positions, but rather they still regularly choose professions that pay less....so there is still a chance you can make more money than your potential partners.

Reality is that women provide the womb, not just sex. Your sex should trade equally with her sex. Sure she could easily get out there and get random dick, she still wants it...your dick just has to be better. It's really men v men; always thinking what is that guy bringing that I do not, can i get better or bring something different (hope)!

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2023. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter