~ archived since 2018 ~

Presentation Matters / discussion

December 27, 2016
7 upvotes

In reading most RP and BP folks on here, I find that once we have our definitions lined up , the core ideas of RP are readily accepted by most BP'ers. The out-liars will be feminist misogynists - to be clear, those feminists who actually dislike men as a whole, and those RP'ers who are so hurt by their experience in life that they have a hard time trusting their old view of things.

Case in point : BP will see the descriptions of certain behaviors provided by RP field reports with some internal monologue and think "what an asshole, RP is about being an asshole". Meanwhile, the actual description reads "Wanted to smash, found a girl I thought wanted to smash too, talked to her, gauged her interest through some teasing, some kino, she seemed into it, we smashed. Yay!" nothing particularly "bad".

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Post Information
Title Presentation Matters / discussion
Author Scurvemuch
Upvotes 7
Comments 155
Date December 27, 2016 3:34 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/presentation-matters-discussion.271014
https://theredarchive.com/post/271014
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5kk92g/presentation_matters_discussion/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (75 children) | Copy Link

the problem with RP is that it takes truths that most of us who were socialized normally (not you spergs, I know you thought Disney was real) grew up accepting, packages them with misogyny and cringey jargon, and takes credit for the whole damn thing.

πŸ†— women value looks in selecting a partner

πŸ†— getting in shape and not being fat will make you more attractive to more women. your sparkling personality won't make up for the fact that you're a fat fuck.

πŸ†— supplicating "nice guy" behavior is not attractive and will not get you laid

πŸ†— attractive people have options, act as if you do even if you don't

❎ the mythical "Chad" is the only guy who has casual sex. your girlfriend is probably thinking about Chad or texting him right now.

❎ your ex-girlfriend cheated on you? women are a monolith and will all cheat on you. with Chad.

❎ women are teenagers/stop maturing at 18. you know that guy she was attracted to at 18? she'll literally never get over him. she's probably texting him right now. his name? Chad.

❎ none of this is emotional or has anything to do with how we feel (that's for females,) we are paragons of logic.

❎ women are dried up by 30. all those bitches who dated Chad will be begging me to get with me at 30 but I'll be banging coeds. hot coeds, probably blondes and no older than 7,110 days old. men age like wine, ladies. also I can totally tell a 30-year-old from a 28-year-old from a 26-year-old.

❎ I'm definitely not writing erotica for upvotes or embellishing my night at the club.

❎ as a RP man I don't care about women's looks, I care about their actions. this is why I describe every woman I encounter's breast size, hair color, outfit, and 1-10 rating in excruciating detail.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

not you spergs, I know you thought Disney was real

Ah, spaceboobs. All for no hate speech ala TBP.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

sorry I should have posted a TW, that's my bad

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

TW

what is that?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

trigger warning

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Kind of like awalt and Chaaaad.

Oh and not a trigger so much as hippocracy

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I was just clarifying what TW was.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Idk why RPers read TBP.

[–]disposable_pants3 points4 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Because if you're interested in having a productive discussion you at least attempt to understand what the other side is thinking. This largely is a foreign concept to blue pillers.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Believing in Disney is one thing at 10 years old but there's no excuse when your 18 not to become introspective and realize what's reality and what's not. Most people don't need RP to grow up.

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

This is what I'm talking about. Blue pillers would rather straw man TRP ideas and circlejerk about them than take the time and effort to engage them rationally.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

What are you talking about ? How is blue pill conditioning not a TRP idea? How is what I said a circle jerk or a straw man? It's tough love yah, no different how TRPs talk about women

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

How is blue pill conditioning not a TRP idea?

"Media/society conditions men to act like betas" is a TRP idea. "Those guys still believe in Disney movies" is a straw man.

Here's a rule of thumb: If a person created Idea A, and you describe Idea A in such a way that they would readily agree to it, you're doing a fair job of accurately describing Idea A. But if you describe Idea A in a way they disagree with or don't recognize, you're probably misrepresenting it.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I didn't really say they still believe, just that they need to become introspective and observe reality. The fact that men who don't do this naturally need TRP to tell them to do it , is what I'm mocking specifically. Most guys can wake up when they get a bit older and have experienced life as long as they're actually thinking. Not escaping the blue pill conditioning on your own is not something to take pride in.

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

mocking

See, there's the circlejerking. You're not engaging the argument on a rational level, you're saying "hey look how much TRP sucks guys, give me upvotes!!!11!" Mocking also usually involves exaggerating or misrepresenting the target's stance, which is what you're doing here.

Not escaping the blue pill conditioning on your own is not something to take pride in.

Who's taking pride here? Red pillers talk about how dumb they were not to have seen this stuff before all the time. This is another straw man.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Blue pillers are way more understanding and open minded than reds. You guys are the ones whose go-to is "you're either lying or an outlier" if we say our experience differs. Seriously. I have literally never said that to reds yet it's been said to me on numerous occasions. Why do you think that is?

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Blue pillers are way more understanding and open minded than reds.

Yet many proudly admit to not reading the material they criticize, and routinely misrepresent even basic TRP concepts. How is that open minded? And I don't mean "misrepresent" in the "I have a difference of opinion" sense, it's the "I'm claiming you're saying X when you're saying Y" sense. Just look at the comment that started this chain -- there's a blue claiming red pillers say they don't care about a woman's looks. That's just laughable, but circlejerking blue pillers eat nonsense like that up regularly.

Seriously. I have literally never said that to reds yet it's been said to me on numerous occasions. Why do you think that is?

Why do you assume your experience is typical?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How is that open minded?

I wouldn't call it close minded. Maybe not educated, but that's not really close minded.

And I don't mean "misrepresent" in the "I have a difference of opinion" sense, it's the "I'm claiming you're saying X when you're saying Y" sense.

Part of this is the nature of TRP, which is ultimately is shaped by it's members. So, for example, you have RP theory with something like dread game. Dread game can mean simply being an attractive man all the way to flirting with women in front of your wife and intentionally making her fear you will cheat or leave her. TRP says "this is the information, apply it how you want, we won't judge."

So then when you see this concept discussed, you see a range of applications -- ranging from benign to what many would believe is harmful. In that respect, when a bloop says "dread game is manipulative and harmful" that person isn't wrong -- that's just only one application of the concept. And just because YOU, as a red piller, wouldn't necessarily apply it that way doesn't mean TRP or it's many other members would.

My point is that RP theory isn't black and white, there isn't one clear "correct" application of the concepts. So I think when you see bloops getting it "wrong" what you are really seeing is bloops taking issue with applications that certain reds promote that you disagree with.

Why do you assume your experience is typical?

Because I've been around a while, I know who the regular blue pillers are, and I've seen the same thing happen to them. Look I know there's a few snarky blue pill regulars. But for the majority of us -- particularly the regulars -- we are far more open minded. Just look how much women are shit on daily on PPD. Daily. As a woman I have to be pretty open minded to expose myself to that shit, much less debate it with a level head (which I admit sometimes I don't do the best job doing). Imagine if the blue pillers from PPD came to TRP or something and started making misandrist claims all over the place -- do you think they'd take it well? I think the blue pill regulars just tend to be more patient and open minded than the reds, partly because we have to be if we want to stick around this sub with all the bullshit about how much "women" suck.

[–]disposable_pants0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't call it close minded.

Then what's your definition of "closed minded", and how does it not include "I refuse to even read this"?

In that respect, when a bloop says "dread game is manipulative and harmful" that person isn't wrong -- that's just only one application of the concept.

If you write an article on how to start a fire, and I use that information to burn down a building, is there any justification for calling the information itself "harmful"?

So I think when you see bloops getting it "wrong" what you are really seeing is bloops taking issue with applications that certain reds promote that you disagree with.

The issue is when very few red pillers promote a given application to begin with (to the point that it's hard to find clear examples), and much of the time those red pillers are downvoted by TRP itself, and yet blues try and hold up that example as representative of TRP as a whole. It'd be like a small, nearly insignificant number of arsonists using your fire-starting advice to burn down buildings, and then people attacking you and your information for being harmful.

Imagine if the blue pillers from PPD came to TRP or something and started making misandrist claims all over the place

Blue pillers shit on TRP in every single thread, often without making even an attempt at a substantive point.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Then what's your definition of "closed minded", and how does it not include "I refuse to even read this"?

Being closed off to new ideas, interpretations or beliefs. Most bloops who don't read TRP don't need to read it to understand it. TRP isn't a bunch of difficult concepts, it's pretty easy stuff. Plus we read what TRP members say about it here.

If you write an article on how to start a fire, and I use that information to burn down a building, is there any justification for calling the information itself "harmful"?

This isn't what I said -- I said the application can be harmful or benign. I don't think bloops are going around arguing that the information is "bad" -- we argue that the application is morally wrong, hurtful, or that the information is inaccurate.

The issue is when very few red pillers promote a given application to begin with (to the point that it's hard to find clear examples), and much of the time those red pillers are downvoted by TRP itself, and yet blues try and hold up that example as representative of TRP as a whole. It'd be like a small, nearly insignificant number of arsonists using your fire-starting advice to burn down buildings, and then people attacking you and your information for being harmful.

This is exactly what you guys do with feminism. Regardless, when those members come to PPD to debate TRP it's unfair to ask us to not debate it the way it's presented here. And once again -- there is no "right way" to apply TRP -- it's just information and it tells members to use it the way they see fit. So even you here telling me those members are getting it wrong, well if you want to get technical, RP might say they their application is counterproductive or ineffective but not that it's "wrong."

Blue pillers shit on TRP in every single thread, often without making even an attempt at a substantive point.

Because many TRP members are misogynistic and openly admit it. TRP shits on women -- a whole gender -- daily. BP doesn't shit on men, only on TRP. If you don't like it then shut down the members who you believe are mischaracterizing it.

[–]disposable_pants0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most bloops who don't read TRP don't need to read it to understand it.

In what other area of life would this line of reasoning fly? If you were in school, could you get away with telling a teacher/professor "I don't need to read it to understand it"? If you were at work, and your boss asked you to read a report, could you get away with "I don't need to read it to understand it"? If a friend asked you to read an article or a story they were working on, could you get away with "I don't need to read it to understand it"?

Anywhere else, not reading something is recognized as A) zero effort to understand it and B) ignorance of it. Refusing to read something is the definition of "being closed off to new ideas".

we argue that the application is morally wrong, hurtful, or that the information is inaccurate.

Well everyone knows that arson is hurtful. Who's saying it isn't? You don't find guys on TRP cheering on abuse, for example.

RP might say they their application is counterproductive or ineffective but not that it's "wrong."

The underlying philosophy of TRP is "do what works, even if it seems counterintuitive or you've been told not to". An application that's counterproductive or ineffective is wrong on TRP, in the same way that attempting to become a woman's friend, then years later ask her out on a date is "wrong".

TRP shits on women -- a whole gender -- daily. BP doesn't shit on men, only on TRP.

The topic is on who keeps a level head and open mind in the face of other people attacking them. If the scope of the group that's being attacked is material, it'd make sense that it's harder to keep an open mind if a group closer to you, or a group you've chosen. If someone makes fun of me for being an American, whatever -- they're making fun of many people, many of whom are nothing like me, and I'm just part of that group by default. If someone says "your whole friend group is a bunch of assholes", they're insulting people quite a bit like myself who I've personally chosen as friends. It doesn't make sense to argue that shitting on a smaller, personally chosen group is less offensive than shitting on a broad group you just happened to be born into.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk, I don't think r/TheBluePill is really a good place to understand an "opposition". but sure.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

for a reminder

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Reminder of what? Shit posting?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

sure. why not

[–]NowEarDis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

idk why anyone reads TBP. Or why you post.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For shits.

[–]MeterusUnicorn Cuck Pill Pharmacist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same reason why BeePs read TeRP.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

not you spergs, I know you thought Disney was real

If I had feelings they'd be hurt. :P

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

😎

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amazing post, needs moar CHAD tho

[–]trpobservereats ass2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad back at it again!

[–]anitapkcsarlbmed ggse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you know that guy she was attracted to at 18? she'll literally never get over him. she's probably texting him right now. his name? Einstein.

[–]Candy_Kittens1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It must be so exhausting to be Chad.

[–]disposable_pants-1 points0 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

You must know that you're presenting TRP ideas in ways most TRP readers would disagree with, so why bother misrepresenting them? Are you just circlejerking?

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.5 points6 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

TRP members misrepresent them themselves. This shit is routinely seen -- why do you think it is that you see some old school RPers themselves arguing that r/TheRedPill has turned to shit?

[–]disposable_pants3 points4 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

This shit is routinely seen

Where? Show me some links with red pillers saying "we are paragons of logic" and "Chad is the only one who has casual sex" and "women are a monolith." Very, very few red pillers taken stuff that literally, and the ones who do don't get upvoted. What gets upvoted are A) posts with a bit of nuance and detail that flesh out the big ideas and B) posts that remind users that while that nuance might exist, you should err on the side of caution. It's the exact same tension you'd see in a gun safety course, where one second you'd be told how to check if a gun is unloaded and clean it and the next you'd be told that yes, all guns are loaded.

This is clear circlejerking; just look at the last three points edited in.

why do you think it is that you see some old school RPers themselves arguing that r/TheRedPill has turned to shit?

Because that same argument is made about literally every sub on reddit by older users. That's no more evidence that the current iteration of TRP/reddit is shit than "kids these days" is evidence that kids these days actually are [fill in the blank].

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

but somehow everything that every teenage tumblrite calling herself a feminist ever wrote is to be taken not only literally but as a threatening representation of All Feministsβ„’ and their nefarious agenda (they want to #killallmen, can you believe it??)

oh and the only advice bloopers ever give is "be yourself." because we still believe the Disney fairytale. or something. that part gets murky.

[–]disposable_pants2 points3 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

but somehow everything that every teenage tumblrite calling herself a feminist ever wrote is to be taken not only literally

Your comment is clear circlejerking. Pointing out that TRP occasionally circlejerks as well doesn't change that.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]disposable_pants0 points1 point  (29 children) | Copy Link

Ignored my point, pivoted to shitting on TRP. You're just trolling.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]disposable_pants-1 points0 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

My point was that whatever you say about TRP is irrelevant when the criticism is about blue pill circlejerking. You ignored that and continued to circlejerk about TRP. You're trolling.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.8 points9 points  (43 children) | Copy Link

A lot of us bloops have issues with the absolutism ("only 20% of men are attractive!", "women will all cheat on you given the right opportunity", "all women settle on sexual attraction when they LTR/marry", "Chad never gets rejected!") and the misogyny. That's about it.

If most of you could discuss gender politics without the unnecessary and inaccurate hyperbolic woman-hating, we'd get along just fine (and I do, with those who are capable of doing this).

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

A lot of us bloops have issues with the absolutism

Which is entirely on you. No one who has insight actually believes the absolutes. We use them to generalize. Out of 100k people a few are idiots and misread things? they get corrected or downvoted.

unnecessary and inaccurate hyperbolic woman-hating, we'd get along just fine

Some times it is necessary.

Inaccurate? I don't know, but enough men agree that ALL women are like that , just like enough women agree that "all men are dogs".

TRP is not about gender politics. its about guys getting laid. Gender politics is an outlying branch for people to sit around and bitch/ discuss.

There are so many definitions of "gender politics" that there is really nothing to discuss because we cant even get definitions straight.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Which is entirely on you.

It's on me when reds are inaccurate? Wth?

I don't know, but enough men agree that ALL women are like that , just like enough women agree that "all men are dogs".

Dumb logic, IMO. Just because enough people agree on an opinion like that doesn't make it objectively correct. I'd rather go with what is objectively correct.

TRP is not about gender politics. its about guys getting laid. Gender politics is an outlying branch for people to sit around and bitch/ discuss.

On PPD we discuss all things gender related, not just sexual strategy. Surely you've seen reds join in on the conversations that are not purely sexual strategy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's on me when reds are inaccurate? Wth?

your issues and inability to not take things in absolutes and any pertinent issues , are absolutely on you,

objectively correct.

There is not objectivity in matters of sexual dynamics, gender politics etc. Trust me, I define subjective from objective for a living.

On PPD we discuss all things gender related, not just sexual strategy. Surely you've seen reds join in on the conversations that are not purely sexual strategy

yup. we are not disagreeing. I am saying that TRP is not ABOUT gender politics, not that there is no discussion about the topic on trp.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

your issues and inability to not take things in absolutes and any pertinent issues , are absolutely on you,

When reds are absolutist that they are inaccurate it is absolutely on them -- I am not responsible for someone else being inaccurate -- in any fucking way.

There is not objectivity in matters of sexual dynamics, gender politics etc. Trust me, I define subjective from objective for a living.

To an extent, sure, but you can at least aim for as much objectivity as possible. Believing that "all women are hypergamous whores" isn't anymore aiming for objectivity than "all men are dogs."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Believing all women have this potential is not unreasonable.

About absolutes :new guys on trp , idiot guys and the blue pill types think that the statements are absolute. That's what I am saying.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Really?

So you're fine with TRP's stances on:

--men and women are different

--women are hypergamous

--men and women are sexually attracted to different things in the opposite sex

--women are not attracted to nice guys being themselves, supplication or pedestalization

--women are attracted to good looks, muscles, confidence and dominance

--women cheat almost much as men do (supported by studies)

--women are not paragons of innocence and virtue

--a woman will do nasty ass sexual things for a man she's sexually attracted to that she will not do for a man she's "meh" about

--men's best bet to improve his looks is lose weight and improve his body's muscle tone and definition

--women lose sexual attractiveness as they age; a 35 year old woman is not as hot as she was at 25

--women can be raging bitches and cunts; there is not a single woman alive who has not at some point been a raging cunt; every woman has unleashed her cuntiness on some man at some point

--men like pretty faces, good bodies, big tits, long legs and shapely asses; and these things are far and away the most sexually attractive attributes women can offer

--the main value a woman brings to a man is sexual access to her body

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

The main? You mean an important one, but not the only important one I hope

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The main value a woman brings to a man is sexual access to her body

Yes. The main value. It's not the only important one, but it is by far the most important one.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

Most of these are just plain obvious -- just don't go overboard with them and most are absolutely true at least to a substantial percentage of the population. Also a lot of them are true for men, so I'll assume you aren't saying these are true but only wrt women. Although I don't agree with women cheating as much, but that's because I see cheating a lot -- by men not women, so my experience doesn't match that, and AFAIK it's really only been one survey finding the rates to be about equal.

The last one I vehemently disagree with though -- only certain men believe that, it's highly variable depending on the man and completely a subjective opinion. Personally I think that's a low value man's mentality. But hey that's another highly variable and completely subjective opinion.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

vehemently disagree

just to clarify, what else does a woman bring to a man that he can not get in a non sexual relationship?

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Children

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

via sex.

or via IVF/artificial insemination which do not require sex.

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Teasing. Not everyone wants kids. Out of curiosity tho, your guy friends, do they make you feel as good and loved and as great about yourself the way a woman you value and think highly of can? I'm jw. Honestly I mean. My friends "validate" me and love me (sometimes!) but I prefer to get those feelings from a man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

see, thats what I mean about access to her body.

she can TELL me she loves me, respects me, all that. She can tell me how she can't live without me. None of it truly does it as much as seeing her face when she wants me to be in her. Or the feel of her body when she tenses up before or during an orgasm. Or how her breath feels on my chest after sex while we cuddle. That is what access to her body means.

Its not a wet hole to fuck. And this is why whores will not replace the real thing once experienced, unless they can somehow train themselves to mimic all those things .

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I thought I understood men pretty well but maybe after that I understand them a little better

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do explain.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Love, affection, emotional bonding/support that is more than what he can obtain through a BFF (let's get real here, adults don't rely on their equally adult friends for social/emotional support they way they rely upon their SOs), a family, a secondary income to help support their lifestyles, daily caretaking (which let's be honest makes your life easier), helps you achieve your goals, not be lonely as you age, etc. There's a whole shit ton that isn't just sex.

Men who marry just for sex are low value (IMO). High value men can already get sex but they want more than that, hence they value the women they choose for more than just sex. And it's not that he necessarily can't get some of this without her, it's that he wants and expects her to provide more value than just sex and he's able to find a high value women who does provide more value than just sex because he himself is high value.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

you are mixing up only value and main value. I answered another poster a minute ago. See that.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

And a high value man doesn't need a wife to get laid so it's not her "main" value.

Edit: you also specifically asked me what else she brings to the table so I'm not mixing anything up, I'm asnwering your question directly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

FFS, no man needs a wife to get laid.

and we are not talking about getting laid. This is where the blooper girls prove they have no concept of what a man wants romantically, and blooper men prove that all THEY want is to get their tiny dicks wet.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Then wtf are you talking about? Because you specifically asked what else they bring to the table and I specifically answered that question and then you accused me of mixing things up (which I didn't do).

If someone looks at their SO as mainly providing value in that they can get laid on a regular basis, it is my opinion that person is probably a low value man, because high value men wouldn't find that the most valuable thing a relationship has to offer -- he can already get sex on the reg.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

asked what else they bring to the table

nearly anything else can be gotten from other sources. It just FEELS better if it's your spouse.

A man can get nearly everything else from a non sexual relationship. Heck, he could have a live in caretaker.

The only thing that has special meaning is the sexual relationship. Because the promise of marriage was to forsake all others. its about getting that from the person you love and care about. The rest of the stuff, building life together, does not REQUIRE sexual intimacy.

[–]DrunkGirl69Manic Pixie Drunk Girl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She said she had issues with the absolutism...

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Woman hating is way too subjectively defined thats the problem. I believe in harmony between the sexes and that currently feminine imperatives are over expressed, just this position alone makes me a woman hater according to 80% of feminists I talk to.

Saying men and women are different makes you a woman hater.

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 9 points9 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Saying men and women are different doesn't make you a woman hater. Saying "all women are basic bitches" gives some sense that you can't be objective and might be a woman hater.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well I've never said that and I get the woman hater label quite a lot.

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I will have to keep an eye on you then! πŸ‘€ people assign me inaccurate labels too. I just keep trying to make my point

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I hated women it'd be pretty fucked up too because woman tend to like me a lot except over the internet.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe in harmony between the sexes and that currently feminine imperatives are over expressed, just this position alone makes me a woman hater according to 80% of feminists I talk to.

Then learn how to express yourself better because that's also the opinion of a lot of feminists.

Saying men and women are different makes you a woman hater

Tell us how you said it

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of feminists do not believe the feminine imperatives are over expressed, rather they believe ideal femininity is over expressed. The feminine imperative is the nature of women including and especially feminists, and the unique societal desires that arise from being biologically female. Things like being non-judgemental, morally permissive(part of the reason the left finds itself tangled up with Islam despite clear anti-feminist ideals), anti-violence etc..

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not here it doesn't.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I don't like extreme hyperbole either. Actually I do but it gets tiresome and I don't take it seriously

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia8 points9 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

Who could have thought that there's a difference between "being muscular will be more helpful than being fat" and "all women want muscular men because they need to feel inferior and they need a man to guide them because they are just little children that don't know what they want"

Who could have guessed that we don't think that the self improvement is misogynistic, but that it's the misogyny that the think is misogynistic

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

all women want muscular men because they need to feel inferior and they need a man to guide them because they are just little children that don't know what they want"

what idiots fr did you get this gem from . Or did you take a few things out of context, mash them together, and think the mashup in your head is original content?

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I'd say the majority of hard core red pillers (the vocal ones, and most of the ones who post here aside from a few reasonable outliers) present this sentiment repeatedly and defend it tooth and nail.

But there are reasonable RPers as well, who would at least admit that not all women are like that.

But try to argue that in theredpill sub, you'll be downvoted excessively, NAWALT doesn't exist, unicorns don't exist, etc

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

because they need to feel inferior

hmmm no, they don't say this

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

They say, women want men who are superior to them and make the women feel inferior. This is why they encourage men to treat women like children and neg them. It's to display that the man has a higher SMV , as they propose women want a man with a higher SMV than their own.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women in general like to know the man can provide for them and be her rock. This is the theme almost everywhere. I don't see inferior playing a role. Inferior in certain things maaayybe.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The way I'd present the sentiment would be to, your love for your partner needs to be based upon respect. You must admire your partner for there to be happiness in the relationship. If you do not respect or admire your partner, the relationship will not work out.

So advice for men and women would be to - make sure that you respect/admire your partner internally, make sure you display your respect and admiration for them in your actions, and finally make sure you are a person deserving of respect and admiration - and make sure that is apparent.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Guys don't need to respect their partner to love them. Girls do.

And that's the problem with women reading something like TRP. Projection.

That doesn't mean disrespect them btw.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Guys don't need to respect their partner to love them

I have read MANY /r/relationships post this week. Some where women posting, some were men posting. Today I read a post about how an engaged couple was visiting the woman's family on Christmas. The guy displayed an utter disrespect for his woman and her family by the manner in which he treated her family and how he was behaving at the party. She was furious. She wants to break off the engagement and I do not blame her - I would be angry too. I am a family woman, if my boyfriend does not show respect to my family he is not respecting me by proxy. I would not be with a person who does that, and I cannot love that person.

I'm not projecting, either. I just think that it's actually ludicrous to think that the things which create attraction and love somehow doesn't go both ways.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Disrespect towards ones family is not indicative of love. The woman may love the guy. But now she doesn't respect him for several reasons. One of which is that he didn't have the awareness to not be socially stupid. Nothing to do with a Mans love for a woman.

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3pltm2/humansockpuppets_guide_to_managing_your_bitches/

A woman feels vulnerable in a role of leadership, and she feels lost without a masculine leader to boldly claim responsibility for confronting all of the challenges that terrify her.

If a sidebar source is not representative of TRP, then what is?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

not rereading that to find "women need to feel inferior"

tell me at least which section of the post

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

If you need someone to be superior, that directly implies you need to be inferior to someone.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

so, your interpretation is now sidebar material?

ok fine, tell me where it says that women need someone to be superior in that post, we will discuss .

[–]Ascimatorsmirks audibly0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

That's what I quoted. The closing paragraphs of the post.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

A woman feels vulnerable in a role of leadership, and she feels lost without a masculine leader to boldly claim responsibility for confronting all of the challenges that terrify her. No government can provide that for her. For that, she must come to us.

are you referencing this?

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Or did you take a few things out of context, mash them together

Yes. It's just a hyperbole, bro, but in essence it's the image that gets broadcasted by TRPs presentation.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

you are right. but reading above a 4th grade level helps everyone involved.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

But just because you don't see the misogyny because you agree with it doesn't mean it ain't there.

Racists also don't think that they are racists because they truly believe that other races are inferior for whatever reason they come up with.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

sooo... even though I love women I don't really understand how much I hate them? Is that right?

Also, you just went from hyperbole and the image broadcasted (read, received) to me being a misogynist... or a closet one... or... something.

Either you take it as the hyperbole you agree it is, or you actually do think its not hyperbole, and see misogyny anywhere you want to

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't see where you were called a misogynist.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

just because you don't see the misogyny because you agree with it

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I guess I missed the "because you agree with it" part. Maybe she/he meant , you agree with red pill theory..

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe. Doubt it.

[–]IamTheWalkingMenu 4 points4 points [recovered] | Copy Link

At first I thought you meant "presentation" in terms of the way people look or present themselves like in the "first impressions" kind of presentation.

Is what you really mean that it is how the posts and things are written about in TRP? If so, I agree and I feel that the problem with it is the way that hateful words are used to describe women and interactions with them. That kind of thing doesn't bother me per se as I let that kind of thing go in one ear and out the other but I think it bothers a lot of people.

I also feel like if guys want to just "pump and dump" (just a lovely phrase) then that's fine as long as they don't imply that they are in it for anything more. I feel like it is totally on us to figure out what the guy is up to.

I agree that nobody is "special" just because they are female but I think it's the "all women are basic bitches" statements that are the problem. But I feel like those phrases and that kind of language is used because it is needed for some guys because they have to cut the obstacle down to size so they can handle it. I don't mean for you to infer from that I think we are superior to men in anyway, just that many guys are a work in progress when it comes to figuring out how to get women to have sex with them.

Or, have I totally missed the point? lolol

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not so much "women are basic bitches" as "AWALT. All women are characterized by hypergamy and being feelings/emotions driven."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

you got most of it.

"presentation matters" is kind of like getting a gift. Its all wrapped up pretty, makes it seem nice. If the same gift was just kind of thrown at you... not so nice.

guys want to pump and dump, imo, mostly because most women ( at a given time in their lives) are not really relationship material for most guys at a given time in their lives.

As far as

I also feel like if guys want to just "pump and dump" (just a lovely phrase) then that's fine as long as they don't imply that they are in it for anything more.

I feel like it is totally on us to figure out what the guy is up to.

You are right. However, to say that its ok as long guys aren't implying anything else... Meh. its up to you to be attractive enough as a woman ( and I do not just mean physically) to be worth more. Just like its a guys job to be worth having any given woman's affection.

"all women are basic bitches"

enough women are just that to make this statement work for most guys. They will figure out if they ran into a non basic bitch, that is on the guys.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

However, to say that its ok as long guys aren't implying anything else... Meh. its up to you to be attractive enough as a woman ( and I do not just mean physically) to be worth more. Just like its a guys job to be worth having any given woman's affection.

That's fine but she's talking about intentional deception. Many men are not pumping and dumping because "she wasn't worth more," it's because they were just looking to get laid and thus weren't even interested in giving her a chance. It would be like me saying "I just want a free meal so I go out on all these dates with men I'm not really interested in but it's on them because they didn't make themselves attractive enough to me." Sure, you can look at it from that angle but your'e purposely eliminating any responsibility for someone who is intentionally deceitful.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If one does not want to be decieved, all you have to do is actually stand your ground. Don't want pump and dump? Don't sleep with a guy who showed no investment in you. Don't want a girl who "just wants my money"?, don't buy her things without having her invest in you.

Its easy.

People may lie with their mouths but rarely with their actions. If you sleep with a person without knowing anything about them, ANY consequences for Either party is on that party. (barring obvious criminal things, even then, own your shit)

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So when someone intentionally deceives someone else ANY consequences are completely REMOVED from the deceiver's responsibility? I disagree with that although I would agree there are steps you can take to try and prevent others from taking advantage of you and I would, of course, encourage other people to try and take them (in a healthy, productive manner).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't say anything about consequences being removed.

As for healthy productive manner - sure. Not sure who dictates what's healthy and productive however

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

out-liars

Good post, but this was the best part.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

not truly intentional .

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Blue pillers dissagree with red pill Because it was made for men, and only men, and doesn't consider the female. Anything which benefits men, even if it hurts women, is fair game for red pill. So of course people who are women and men who respect women will be put off by the aspect. If they could include women, they would, but they can't, it's inherently opposed to their ideology. Same reason why they don't like feminism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

its for men by men.

It has got nothing to do with respect or disrespect for women. your line of

men who respect women will be put off by the aspect

seems to imply that men who respect women can not be in TRP, and therefore all TRP'ers disrespect women.

Not true. I respect women enough to know women =/= men and do not hold them to the same standards.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I didn't imply that, there are women and men who respect women who do go to TRP, but I don't think they're the norm perse. For instance my boyfriend admonishes and condemns it, the incessant obsession with a woman's N count, the assumption that women are completely unaware of themselves, etc. It's very hard to believe that people can't read more than 1 RP literature without seeing something to disparage women. Men who "respect" women wouldn't stand for other men telling them their women is programmed to cheat on them or branch swing or that she's actually a teenage mind. It leaves a bad taste in our mouths. Even if we agree with some of the "core" stuff, the core stuff is intertwined with the misogyny and disrespect for women.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

What your bf says to you isn't relevant.

And if it helps guys to think "she is being childish because she is a woman" to not get mad at what guys see as childish behavior - good. That's benevolent sexism. Most women are all for benevolent sexism as long as they put blinders on with respect to what comes with it.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What your bf says to you isn't relevant.

Why?

And if it helps guys to think "she is being childish because she is a woman" to not get mad at what guys see as childish behavior - good. That's benevolent sexism. Most women are all for benevolent sexism as long as they put blinders on with respect to what comes with it.

Yes it might work for some cases, but if she snaps at you and says, "Dont treat me like a fucking child" you now you fucked up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't matter because he said it to you.

And if she snaps that's her problem. There are other ways to communicate.

"Don't act like one" is the appropriate verbal response

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't matter because he said it to you.

That doesn't make a difference. I know my relationship very well. He is honest with me, 100%. He doesn't hold back a damn thing. We've been doing this for awhile now. There's no reason for him to lie (i.e. I dont give him any incentive to lie to me by reacting poorly when he tells me something I don't like to hear). There is an incentive not to lie and to be transparent because it brings us closer together.

And if she snaps that's her problem. There are other ways to communicate.

Don't you think you would also react emotionally if someone who supposedly should "love" and "Respect" you patronizes and condescends you?

"Don't act like one" is the appropriate verbal response

People are allowed to have emotions, but acting like a child is something that is up to the observer's perception. You can accept that others have emotions and can behave irrationally (as they are humans) without treating them like "children".

I'll flip the script. My boyfriend has these excessive emotional reactions when his sports team has a really bad game, or when a match goes really poorly. At first I treated him "like a child" when this happened, because I felt it was childish behaviour. This only made it worse for us. Now I learned that it's not "childish" or "immature" because that will likely never change about him. That's a stimuli and thats how he reacts to it. Now I know how to handle the situation appropriately, and it's not to view him as a child who can't hold his emotions in and not throw a "temper tantrum", but as an adult who feels strongly about something to the point where he has to release that emotion. And having emotions/releasing emotions/reacting isnt "childish", it's "human", but there's a place and time for those things and also those emotional reactions could be pulled apart and dissected and understood and improved over time, not just chalk it up to being "inherently irrational".

The right thing to do is let people cool down and reconvene when the emotion has passed on. When people are rational and in the right state of mind, they will be able to communicate and figure out how to work on those reactions so they are not so destructive in the future. If you view your partner as a child, you don't even bother to do this, you don't think they're even capable of having a human adult discussion and to be introspective...blegh!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You mistake a guy telling himself "she can't help it" for outward display of DISrespect.

and the fact that YOU can't view your partner as childish in some things without thinking that they're capable of having a human adult discussion is YOUR issue. It doesn't mean it's anyone else's. Get it ?

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, I don't get your point yet.

You mistake a guy telling himself "she can't help it" for outward display of DISrespect.

She cant help it doesn't mean she is "childish". Likewise, he cannot help when he is being irrational/emotional either. All people - men and women alike - would benefit from accepting our inherent emotional and irrational natures. Women aren't inherently irrational and men are not inherently rational. Many men in the RP world cannot seem to grasp this. they extrapolate that a woman's defacto behaviour will be irrational/emotional and getting them to be rational or to understand logic is a fool's errand. They extrapolate that since they are a man, they do not need to be introspective of their own emotions and irrationality, and blindly believe many irrational/emotional things without asking themselves if it is that way (since "men" are different from women, women = irrational, men = rational). Really it is disturbing to see some people take it this way!

and the fact that YOU can't view your partner as childish in some things without thinking that they're capable of having a human adult discussion is YOUR issue. It doesn't mean it's anyone else's. Get it ?

I'm not saying this. I am saying that, I thought his reactions/emotions were childish at first. But I realized that emotions aren't "childish" - they are what they are and they are inherent in all people. Viewing him in the light that he is a child is not a productive thing to do. Rather, it is important that each person view each other as adults and hold them in high esteem.

Now, being able to have "adult discussions" is a skill that is practiced over time. A 19 year old would have a hard time, but with repeated attempts to do it, they will learn. This is why one of the best relationship advice I heard is, "Get good at fighting", which means don't seek to WIN every fight, but rather, learn how to have a productive fight that doesn't leave both people feeling shitty. Again, this all goes both ways...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"childish" - they are what they are and they are inherent in all people. Viewing him in the light that he is a child is not a productive thing to do. Rather, it is important that each person view each other as adults and hold them in high esteem.

that helped you. good.

many men have the same result by saying "she is just being a woman" or "oldest teenager in the house" .

if this bothers you, thats fine. It doesn't have to make you feel good. the results within the relationship will be the same though.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

It's just too hilarious. The acronyms and silly words. It sounds so serious and try hard.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

You try so hard to get people you disagree with riled up the same can be said of your posts.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Well, I actually don't even have to try. People do most of the work for me.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Nah you don't give yourself enough credit.

It took you ~13 minutes to reply to this thread. I see you post in most every thread so I'm guessing you always have ppd open on some device around you. It can't have taken you more than about 5 minutes to see the thread so thats a solid 5-8 minutes to plan and write a two line comment. That kind of work only comes from commitment that most people wouldn't have to an internet forum

Give yourself a pat on the back :)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, I actually reply as I read. It's not my problem that TRP men are so easy to trigger.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Really though. Thank you for taking the time out of your day. I'm sure you must have other things to be doing...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Well like you're the one stalking my comments and figuring out how often I post. You seem to know more about me than I do.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I only wish I had the time for that!

I've just noticed that whenever I open a thread on here there you are.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Another member of my fan club. Yay!

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]shoup88Report me bitch1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Talking shit about someone for posting on the same subreddit you're currently posting on is such a silly argument.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah. But i dont claim not be to a loser.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's called projection

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're kidding, right? Man I work in IT, we have an acronym for everything, and in many cases the same one may stand for different things in different situations. For some people (like myself I guess) that shit just works. It allows me to have detailed conversations with other techies without having to use full names of things and/or extra long complicated explanations. I can say SAN and they'll just know I mean Storage Area Network and that I'm talking about remote storage without having to say all that.

Its the same for RP jargon, and the mistake many BPs make is to assume it all means EXACTLY the same thing in all situations and/or its some kind of cult lingo. Its almost all just simple shorthand for concepts.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well it's different because it's with women and creepy concepts. Like pushing through LMR and kino escalating.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see how some people see it as "different" because instead of computers we are discussing people, but I'll admit as far as processing info goes, I don't see it any differently at all. It is info to be processed and evaluated on usefulness, that's all.

Now pushing through LMR is one of those RP things I take issue with, but that's my personal decision. I'm mostly of the mind that any indication a woman isn't interested is more than enough to move on, but I'm looking for quality over quantity. A guy looking for quantity may want to make the best of every chance he has, while I'm willing to pass on opportunities that aren't ideal. Kino escalation is an odd one. I can see how it can get very creepy quickly, but at the same time it showed me how important touch is during courtship, and I know that sounds stupid to you. I do NOT make a habit of touching people I don't know well. Period. That includes things like a clap on the back, a hug, pretty much everything short of a handshake is reserved ONLY for people I already know. I'm sure you can see how this becomes an issue during early dating, and I had to realize that "some" amount of kino is not only expected, but necessary to move things along. I lucked out in the past because most of my LTR mates broke the "touch barrier" early on with me, which is to say I did NOT make the "first move" with any of them in the past. (if the "first move" is escalation to sex.) I was under the impression she would somehow "show me" when it was time to escalate, and whatever IOIs they sent I didn't get. I digress...

Anyway I don't disagree with your critiques necessarily, but I will say they often appear to be cherry picked from the worst of the worst on TRP. There is middle ground where I suspect many red leaning men exist, but you aren't going to find much evidence of that on TRP or the 'sphere. Their "job" is to push the extreme PoV, and let individual men find their own balance. Its not RP's fault many men can't find balance at all.

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I work in IT, we have an acronym for everything

Every group develops jargon and shorthand that's used within the group. Large organizations develop and use acronyms without fail, and even small friend groups create inside jokes and can usually refer to them in a word or two (even though those words might refer to a series of interactions spanning years).

Blue pillers criticize red pill jargon because it's low-hanging fruit and they generally can't be bothered to read TRP to engage the ideas at a higher level. What's easier: Making fun of terminology, or reading and understanding what that terminology means and making a meaningful counterargument?

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[–]HigHog0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

typo. Freudian kind.

I think feminist are actually closet misogynists as well. There is a significant buy in to having women be labelled as victims and powerless in situation where this is not the case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

I find that once we have our definitions lined up , the core ideas of RP are readily accepted by most BP'ers.

I want to emphasise that this wasn't always the case.

People agree with some red pill stuff now that was vilified back then.

Hell, even going to the gym was seen as wrong back then.

The mere thought of wanting to increase one's success in the hookup scene was seen as wrong.

Casual sex was okay. If it just happened. But don't you dare intentionally trying to actually do something to get more casual sex.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Casual sex was okay. If it just happened. But don't you dare intentionally trying to actually do something to get more casual sex.

Wat.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

That was the common sentiment.

You want casual sex? You are evil.

If casual sex just happens to you, you are not evil.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I missed all of that.

Sounds like a bit of a persecution complex to me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I just think it's great that this is slowly changing.

Yeah, I missed all of that.

Of course you did.

[–]DrunkGirl69Manic Pixie Drunk Girl1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it was years ago because I would take issue with any BPers who said simply working out or trying to hook up more made a guy a bad person. I haven't seen that sentiment anywhere.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh believe me. Only three years ago things were different.

I think we still see the remnants. Casual sex if it "just happens" is good. But if you try to come up with a strategy people will immediately be suspicious.

But so much has changed. Stuff that is considered "common knowledge" wasn't back then.

I mentioned it somewhere else but people even tried to convince us that men can as easily get casual sex as women and even used studies trying to prove it. (Lol). Like "a man and a woman go out to hit the bar and both have the exact same chance of success." If the man has no success it was because he was a misogynist. XD

No bp man or woman would try to tell us something like that any more. Now they make more sense and point out that yes women can find casual sex more easily but that doesnt mean that it will be enjoyable. True! But only a few years ago we didn't even come to this point in a discussion because people were insisting that men can get casual sex easily.

[–]DrunkGirl69Manic Pixie Drunk Girl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The only time I've seen people take issue with using a strategy is when the strategy itself appears to be harmful to the other parties involved. People aren't demonizing trying to get laid, they disagree with using deceit to do so.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Things have changed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Of course you did.

You know why? Because I don't actually obsess about what other people think. Part of being a man is to plot your own course in life and then stick to it even if no one is cheering you on.

This whole idea that everyone EXCEPT red pill has the idea of self improvement is totally absurd and without merit. RP uses it as an excuse to not go to the gym.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

RP uses it as an excuse to not go to the gym.

HUh?

Do you even lift? or Lift, is like the basic thing said, ever.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I have heard this excuse from RP guys so many times, and it's just pathetic.

"Everyone said just be yourself! They said girls do not like guys who are fit and athletic!"

Such bullshit.

As if people are ever against guys getting their shit together and improving themselves. What am utterly ridiculous thing to say.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

so, wait, you undertand that these were BP guys who "found" rp and were like, holy shit, listen to what they do not what they say .... right?

At this point, you are actually shaming guys who didn't "get it" growing up.

Nice one lady.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

At this point, you are actually shaming guys who didn't "get it" growing up.

They didn't "get" that jocks get the girls? I mean, they were not able to notice that happening around them? They didn't notice that if you're not a jock, being in a band or some other cool thing attracted women? Seriously, that was a mystery to someone?

Nice one lady.

Heh.

[–]MorpheusGodOfDreamsCaught Red Handed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I find that once we have our definitions lined up

this is clearly the main issue of fluid and imprecise female language, which is useful for avoiding conflict but useless for getting things done. This is why TRP teaches to ignore what a woman says, since her imprecise language makes her words effectively useless.

In the same way that we can easily find a religious parallel to feminist dogmatic language, we can find a BP way to describe RP principles.

Surprise! when we use bullshit soft feminine language to explain concepts like hypergamy as "quality" or "standards" or AF/BB as "lover/provider", EVERYONE AGREES.

Even on this very page you will see how Bloopers constantly walk back and change the goalposts. First they say TRP is nothing but obvious health advice. Then they agree to basic concepts and say "duh! you autists didn't know that? HAHA"

If you believe that men and women are different, then you are automatically 50% RED. If you follow the natural logical conclusion to that absolute FACT, then you are solidly Red Pill, even if you disagree with some of the presentation of concepts.

But the very point of TRP is to use the harshest language possible to break the spell of the "Women are Wonderful" effect. By destroying the pedestal, TRP gives men a better chance of getting past the anger and reaching the understanding of men and women as a balanced symbiosis, like Yin and Yang.

Bloopers do all they can to stop TRP from helping these men who need it, based on the idea that they are abusing women. But if women have agency, they can easily choose to avoid a RP man. They never do avoid the most dangerous self centered men, so it really comes down to "is it natural."

Bloopers are just telling men "know your place, you sexless orbiter", even while agreeing with 95% of the basic concepts. The other 5% just goes against their feminist brainwashing, and is otherwise considered common sense around the world.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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