Q4MEN - Has any woman who started out as a "definitely not LTR quality" woman changed your mind and became LTR material in your eyes?

YasuotheChosenOne · 2020-06-26T22:42:35+00:00

Not sense I actually became aware of red flags. In fact, lately I feel women have been intentionally raising, and waving their red flags proudly.

LowCreddit · 2020-06-26T22:11:25+00:00

Never once past college. Most women are obsessed with improving their outer qualities and pay no attention to their inner ones. Changing inner qualities is much more difficult than changing outer ones, and most people cannot even maintain the outer ones. The few men I see become LTR worthy are the ones with good inner qualities and later learned the importance of outer ones. Women have the importance of outer qualities rubbed in their faces from birth.

Barely-moral · 2020-06-26T22:31:56+00:00

No. I always give people the benefit of the doubt, if a woman raised a red flag big enough for me to say that she is "definitely not LTR quality" then she is not crawling out of that hole.

2020-06-26T22:27:37+00:00

Nope. Once a man writes a woman off because she’s taken too many dicks, or has a coke habit or whatever, that disgust will always be at the forefront of your mind

TheLotusLover · 2020-06-26T23:46:45+00:00

JimmyKimmelBlackFace · 2020-06-26T22:58:10+00:00

There was one girl that managed to get through to me after her high N count and party past initially put me off. She seemed really genuine the more I would talk to her and we started a friendship before a relationship. We hung out so much and in the same friends circle that everyone said we looked like we were dating so we thought hey why not? And started a relationship. I though we had something really good going but eventually she ended up cheating on me with one of her exes.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-06-26T23:55:49+00:00

Nope. I don't think we think about this in the same way that women do. Women are either or, and often the guy doesn't care about whether she's "LTR material" if she's attractive. That alone is good enough. Personality, education and other traits aren't factored in because women don't need degrees or personalities in order for us to have sex with them. As long as she's not obviously bat-shit crazy, she's "good enough."

Since I'm seemingly more LTR oriented than the majority of other men seem to be, I look for things that make a woman good LTR material, and it's usually a yes or a no. People don't develop themselves and grow into mature, responsible, self-aware people who know what they want overnight, or in a month. These things take years, and sometimes even entire lifetimes to develop, so unless they weren't who I thought they were for whatever reason, they don't magically change in a short amount of time.

Workaholiconew · 2020-06-26T23:23:14+00:00

For me, I am mistaken quite a lot on the LTR value of a woman at first glance. but I never changed my mind when I put a woman in "definitely not LTR quality" since I left college.

The value of a woman is not something you can guess out of a glance, it may take hours upon hours to really know the value of a given woman. So I never put 'definitely not LTR quality' into any given woman I not know correctly.

Many men, like me, just will not bother discovering more if a woman show too many red flags in rapid succession. But we are aware that we have a big chance of being wrong.

How did she do it,

The ones who made me change my mind shown interest in me or I was sexually starved. So I thought 'why not be sure?"

what was the outcome?

Sometimes sex, and once a relationship.

geometersbane · 2020-06-27T00:11:45+00:00

It depends on her age and what caused her to change. Many of the non-LTR qualities she exhibits up to her early 20s can be forgiven. We all did irresponsible shit when we were young.

As for the catalyst, if she suddenly developed LTR qualities out of selfish reasons instead of changing fundamentally as part of growing up, then she won’t be considered.

reluctantly_red · 2020-06-27T02:10:02+00:00

I guess its theoretically possible -- but I've never seen it happen.

petrichordium · 2020-06-26T22:43:37+00:00

I said I’d never date a girl who did tons of coke. Like weed, party drugs, all fine, but i just found coke to be a suspect drug of choice. Then i met a girl i ended up dating for five years during a major coke phase of hers, and i spent way more time dealing with her cokehead friends than i ever would have considered doing. It was tons of fun and also incredibly tiresome. She eventually had a breakdown and stopped doing so much coke right around the time i finally started enjoying the drug a bit. (She was otherwise a great and well matched person, we had many shared interests, etc). It was a good relationship.

I also once dated a girl who first struck me as a romantic twit but then i mistook her intelligence for romantic wisdom (also the sex was way better than I thought it would be), and she’s the only major ex i am not on great or even neutral terms with.

So i have come to the groundbreaking conclusion that this can be a good thing, but it depends on what the red flag was and also what made you decide it wasn’t a big deal. Or maybe it doesn’t. 50/50

kwalden2 · 2020-06-26T23:19:46+00:00

[removed]

SeemedGood · 2020-06-27T02:20:38+00:00

No because LTR quality is primarily defined by kindness to others, curiosity, and thoughtfulness - all things which are difficult to develop after about 20.

thetruthishere_ · 2020-06-27T02:39:48+00:00

Id say this is for both sides. Once red flags show there is no going back.

redditthrowaway1478 · 2020-06-27T22:41:36+00:00

Briefly, yes. At first, I thought she was hot but a little emotionally stunted. She’d had plenty of relationship experiences but had never actually been in a relationship. I relegated her to a FWB at most. However, I ended up discovering that we both had similarities in our upbringing, so we had something to emotionally bond over.

Add to that, the effects of oxytocin from phenomenal sex and some damn good game on her part, and eventually I was becoming hooked. Started thinking about her all the time and getting those BP beliefs and feelings creeping back into my head.

The problem was some of the very things that attracted me to her in the first place. She was manipulative and her game was tight but she was young, and her game was not so tight that a game-aware guy couldn’t see what she was doing. then, it started becoming transparent. I felt what I imagine women commonly experience as that “gut feeling” that something isn’t right and you’re being used and manipulated. Kicked her to the curb real fast before I could be chemically addicted.

Let this be a lesson: If, early on in the dating process, you meet up with a girl and find her casually reading Robert Green’s “48 laws of power” while she sips her coffee... proceed with extreme caution.

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2020-06-27T23:12:05+00:00

When I met my fiance I thought she was kind of slutty. Short hair, a tattoo, she smoked a lot and loved to dress like... Well a slut. She was and still is a hottie... But then I noticed she didn't drank alcohol, not at all, even a single drop, and then realized she never went out, she was quite introverted, she had only a couple friends, didn't post too much on social media and all her photos were like, you know, quite prudish, she wasn't looking for male atention while we were dating. She told me she only had two previous relationships before me and until now I have no reasson to think otherwise. I was also the first man she introduced to her pearents.

Kind of surprised me. I admit initially I was quite suspicious but yes, I changed my mind about her over time.

Hoopy223 · 2020-06-26T23:46:32+00:00

Yes but their true character always shows through given enough time.

I talk to everyone its just my nature so I get to know a lot of people casually.

There was a woman at my local bank who was the typical hot, trashy, BMW driving spoiled girl. After I got to know her a bit it made me think that she was different. Very kind, down home kind of woman, 30 years old no kids no husband.

However once I got to know her a lot better the REAL her came out. She was about the worst person I have ever met in my life. I cannot even begin to describe it.

TheGirlGetter9000 · 2020-06-27T00:44:06+00:00

Eh, you explicitly ruled out changing appearance. The thing is, for an opinion on someone to change, their value likely needs to change. Women’s only real sexual value is their appearance.

For the record I had completely 100% relegated my LTR to fuck piece status originally. Then she lost 20 pounds.

hnug2 · 2020-06-27T03:13:55+00:00

Never done that. Why should I risk myself for potential problem?

psypD · 2020-06-27T03:18:02+00:00

Never. Only the other way around. I have made some very poor judgments of the quality of a few women only to meet them again after a few years and realize I dodged a bullet.

von19 · 2020-06-27T04:07:44+00:00

Majorian420 · 2020-06-27T05:35:08+00:00

For me, I rather ask out women before I truly get to know them, but once I truly get to know, I lose all attraction to them when I take off the beer goggles or the red tinted glasses, I either friendzone them or I just exit out of their life.

There’s the picture we idealize in our mind vs reality, and I am aware of it.

akihonj · 2020-06-27T09:14:34+00:00

Nope, never, if she's in the friend zone that's where she stays, she might be ok to pick me up from a bar when I'm too drunk to walk but she will never be anything other than a friend, she will sit there and listen to me contain about how women are shit and treat men like shit while expecting to be treated like royalty.

Even if inside her own head she's screaming, it should be my turn, even if she stripped naked and crawled over 100 miles of broken glass she is going to be nothing more than a friend.

TechnicalMight0 · 2020-06-27T10:49:53+00:00

No, my mom was the quintessential BPD crazy chick so I've always known those types are out there in a very real sense: as in, any girl you meet could be one of the crazy/damaged ones, and you can't "fix" them. I also never get feelings quickly so these factors combined mean I always vet extensively and if something does show up than that's final for me.

decoy88 · 2020-06-27T11:01:37+00:00

There was someone that turned from "Hot AF but hell no for LTR" to "Huh, looks like she's matured enough for LTR" back to "hell no! for LTR" lol

2020-06-27T11:23:13+00:00

In my early twenties I fell for a divorced single mother, she was actually a year or two younger than me as well. The only reason nothing happened between us was that I moved away for work.

DareyFathom · 2020-06-27T13:19:20+00:00

Not even close. In fact, IME it ALWAYS gets worse as more is revealed.

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beigesun · 2020-06-26T22:08:49+00:00

No but yes

Title	Q4MEN - Has any woman who started out as a "definitely not LTR quality" woman changed your mind and became LTR material in your eyes?
Author	Mrs_Drgree
Upvotes	10
Comments	65
Date	June 26, 2020 9:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/hggyuc/q4men_has_any_woman_who_started_out_as_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4men-has-any-woman-who-started-out-as-a.699728 https://theredarchive.com/post/699728