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Q4MEN: Those who strongly believe in marriage, why?

vanBeethovenLudwig
August 26, 2018
6 upvotes
/r/PurplePillDebate

In an age where young men are disheartened with the idea of marriage, along with such vast accessibility to attractive women (dating apps, FWB) - assuming you have game...

If you are a single man and still believe in marriage, why?

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Title Q4MEN: Those who strongly believe in marriage, why?
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 6
Comments 154
Date August 26, 2018 11:43 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4men-those-who-strongly-believe-in-marriage-why.261030
https://theredarchive.com/post/261030
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9aeyfh/q4men_those_who_strongly_believe_in_marriage_why/
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Comments

[–]concacanca13 points14 points  (41 children) | Copy Link

The way I was raised, there was a strong stigma against cohabiting couples and having bastard children. Marriage was the respectable way to do things.

Times have changed though. I don't really believe marriage has a lot of value anymore. It's really there just to make sure that your woman feels secure.

That said, objectivity means sod all. I wouldnt trade my wife in for anything - so I guess that is the real point of marriage.

[–]Uncommon_Sense_12345 1 points [recovered]  (17 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you about female security. I think deep down many guys would be happy with cohabitation but women tend to view marriage as proof of love and commitment. Then proceed to divorce at a much higher rate.

[–]YaAmar5 points6 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

it's hard to steal a man's money and assets if she's not married to him.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Women don’t get married with the idea that they’ll get divorced. It looks bad on her from a societal standpoint, so what’s the real motive? They get married, have kids, and it’s always the woman who puts her life on hold to “take care of her man” and take care of the kids. Her dreams, her hobbies, her career fail to matter to the husband as he expects her sole purpose is to raise his children, keep his house, and fuck him silly. Her pleasure in the bedroom doesn’t matter, her break from the kids doesn’t exist, her time with friends makes him uneasy. God knows the manosphere is obsessed with her hypergamy. Marriage is less of a deal for women, hands down.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If that were true it would be men twisting women's arms to get married. But that's completely backwards.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Women might be begging men to get into marriage, but how really do you explain 80% of divorces initiated are initiated by women? How do you explain women are less likely than men to get married a second time? We realize it’s a shit deal. If we can make our own money, what’s in it for us?

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Women might be begging men to get into marriage, but how really do you explain 80% of divorces initiated are initiated by women?

That's a silly question. It's like asking "why does the conwoman demand investment only to then also run off with the goods?"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You think there’s a bunch of HAPPY single mothers/ divorcees out there? And by “happy”, I mean not drinking excessively or taking pills? Money does not buy happiness and I’m positive that women as a collective would prefer to be in a happy fulfilling relationship rather than just simply get money deposited into their account monthly. It’s just that that’s not how marriage works- it never has and it never will again.

Women stayed married in previous generations because that’s what society expected, they didn’t have any rights and didn’t work. That’s why they stuck around when their husbands beat them, cheated on them, and otherwise enslaved them. It was for security. If that wasn’t the case, the manosphere wouldn’t be screaming for women’s rights to be taken away. Men want women to be like the women of the 50’s because they lack the security in themselves to keep up with putting anything into an actual relationship for the happiness of both parties. Challenge that view.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No, I don't. Women seem to view marriage as some stupid status/badge of honor/virtue signal amongst themselves. Then they sell it as some fairy tale to men and force them to get married. It's women who sell the 50's bullshit to men.

And then women get all huffy and insulted about discussing or fixing systemic problems in marriage for men (that have nothing to do with 50's bullshit).

It's stupid and disgusting. Stop pretending men are pushing this. You are victims of your own making.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Disney sold the Fairy Tale. Women believed that men were capable of being their night in shining armor, their protectors, providers, and partners in life. Men believed that women would remain submissive and serve only his needs and desires- physically and emotionally. Both parties have been duped and neither are willing to discuss the fix.

[–]YaAmar2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You do realize that women have eyes and that they can see how shit of a deal marriage is by observing their mother's marriages and their grandmothers marriages and aunts marriages, no?

They go up still about it because they can't control their biological urges to have children, and they want a man to be there for them, and that's lame, because monogamy is nothing more than a very enchanting dream that only a selected few every get to have - happy monogamous relationsips - the rest are going to get fucked in the divorce court.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

C’mon, just like Capt save a hoe thinks he can turn a hoe into a housewife, she thinks her marriage will “be different”. It’s not.

If women stopped listening to societal cues to get married, a woman could have children, have a career, keep a home, and live a perfectly fulfilling life doing things she enjoys with people who actually give a crap about her happiness. I’m not jaded about marriage, I just wish women would see that, a majority of the time, there is little value in it for them.

[–]YaAmar1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women want their special wedding day. To feel like a Princess and to feel all of those adoring eyes fall upon them in admiration and envy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can’t disagree with that. Thats a result of societal expectation and the fairy tale narrative.

[–]azngirl76890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen. And if you don’t do these things- you’re a selfish bitch apparently. Fuck that noise.

[–]reluctantly_red3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

women tend to view marriage as proof of love and commitment. Then proceed to divorce at a much higher rate.

Yeah -- the having cake and eating it too frame of mind.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie4 points5 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

I don't really believe marriage has a lot of value anymore

As I've said before, I think security is as important to woman and sex is to men.

Marriage's value to men drops to zero the moment you have a woman entitled enough to keep the marriage and say no to sex. And why would men then have a good feeling about marriage? Why would they take on more responsibility for 'less pay'.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷3 points4 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

I asked you this before and you wouldn’t answer me. If men are entitled to certain things in marriage, like sex, what are women entitled to?

[–]reluctantly_red4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If men are entitled to certain things in marriage, like sex, what are women entitled to?

Entitled is a loaded word. Reasonable expectations is a far better way of looking at this.

It is reasonable for a man to expect that a woman who professed her love and agreed to marry him would want to be physically interment.

Likewise a woman can reasonably expect that her husband will treat her well, work hard, be faithful, ... .

This isn't rocket science.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m asking Aaron. He talks a lot about when men are entitled to, Id like to hear him answer the question.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women are entitled to 9 months of pregnancy and painful labor

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Umm, those are kind of optional, not mandatory! (Thank ghod.)

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Security.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Can you be more specific? Security can mean many things.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

And it does mean many things. Much like men and sex I think it's a back of the brain thing. It's why MRP is so successful with dread.

I'll get every answer under the sun as to why women won't accept anything but marriage. Legal reasons, social status...but really they can't just be abandoned on a whim and I think that quells a lot of anxiety.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

So you see marriage from the POV of a man as an exchange of security for sex? I’m just making sure I understand you.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I would not boil down marriage as a exchange of security for sex. Marriage is a lot of things. But in the base needs of both parties, Red uses reasonable expectation and I agree though I'd add reasonable consideration.

There are a million things pulling you in different directions every day. But you pour your efforts into what is more important.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Ok. So in this day and age, when young women are outearning men, where’s the security? What makes marriage any better of a deal for us?

And if he’s not providing financial security, is he holding up his end of the bargain? Is he equally as worthy of scorn as a woman who withholds sex?

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Money doesn't supply emotional support. It doesn't take you to the hospital and it doesn't make sure you need a rest from the kids. There is a lot more than just money here.

If my wife is out earning me, it doesn't change the marriage. If you think your paycheck negates his existence or somehow minimized the dudes income, what a terrible mindset.

Now if I didn't work, didn't take care of the kids, didn't do anything around the house, sure, what DO I bring with me?

Alternatively, why would anyone want to be responsible for a roommate or a man child?

[–]gasparddelanuit0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok. So in this day and age, when young women are outearning men, where’s the security? What makes marriage any better of a deal for us? And if he’s not providing financial security, is he holding up his end of the bargain? Is he equally as worthy of scorn as a woman who withholds sex?

Outearning men? What happened to the gender pay gap?

In any case, in this context, security essentially boils down to freedom from anxiety, which is facilitated by financial security, material security, emotional security, psychological security and physical protection, all of which most men provide in one form or another.

The fact that a woman has a job does not mean that she feels secure. She might lose her job, she might not like it, she might become ill, she might not earn very much or she might prefer to balance work with her home life. A job is not money in the bank nor is it guaranteed to continue. You still have to turn up every day to get your paycheck or get paid if you are self-employed, and most women are not in a situation where they don't have to worry about being paid. Working life can cover 50 or 60 years, so there is plenty of time for ups and downs to occur or fatigue to set in.

Being hypergamous, women also have a preference for men who have a higher socioeconomic status than themselves, so typically are not going to marry men who earn less than them or don't have the potential to earn more, if they can help it. Obviously, they cannot always find such men, but men in relationships still tend to be the higher earner.

Importantly, women are more vulnerable and suffer more from anxiety than men, so place a much greater premium on physical and psychological security than men. Marriage provides some of that security for women because it conveys a man's commitment and legally binds him to the relationship. Men neither need nor get the same security from marriage. Rather, marriage undermines a man's security.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women believe marriage has a lot of value. But that value has nothing to do with him. It has everything to do with their status among women, and their position in the Female Social Matrix.

Women dont' want to marry because they want to be with the guy they're marrying. They marry because they want to show everyone

"LOOK LOOK LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!! I got a guy to marry me! Respect me! I have status with women! I have position in the FSM!!"

[–]Uncommon_Sense_12345 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

What group of women are you hanging around? I've never encountered that attitude.

The fact that women divorce at much higher rates, 70% if nit higher, shows that marriage has little social value to them. Otherwise, they would stay married.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’d have to ask ppl on the thread I linked. Ask them.

[–]ShunSeb47620–750 nm is my wavelength8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a lone wolf, but I want to start a pack of my own. Nuclear family/2 parent household is the best environment to raise kids. 21M for context.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho17 points18 points  (70 children) | Copy Link

B/c as much as I like sex, I prefer comfort or relationship sex to new sex. IMO or IME, once you know what it feels like to be inside of somebody you care about, it shows you a new level that casual sex just can't compete with.

Plus, I like learning people. The sex seems to gradually get better each time as you learn each other, and bond together. I also like cuddling, and want a "partner in crime" so to speak, that I can tell everything to, and have some teamwork on some things.

I guess it doesn't have to be actual marriage, but some of us prefer trusted comfort in the bedroom to new and not sure what's about to happen, I guess is what it boils down to.

[–]321PK 1 points [recovered]  (9 children) | Copy Link

Plus, what kind of girl is going to have your children if you’re not married? Think about it. To spend your life being the girl that everybody says “ya, but he just won’t marry her.” Nope. Not me.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I know, right?

In fact, forget kids, it’s even crazy for me to imagine myself being with a man for >3yrs without him marrying me (or a least being engaged to be married). It’s like, then why are we together?

[–]Naebany0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are together to be together. Why does marriage got to be "the end game"?

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because it is. That security that marriage brings is as important to me as sex is to men.

So unless you want to throw out sex too, then we can throw out marriage.

Also, I’m not raising bastard kids.

[–]Naebany1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. I guess it got kind of sense if you want kids. I dont so that's something that doesn't bother me.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doesn’t the high percentage of marriage failures make you doubt the ‘security’ it supposedly represents?

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That probably applies to most. I have no intentions of having more kids. I've got one, had a vasectomy, and looking for someone who already has baby rabies out of their system:D

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, an older woman? Or a single mother?

Don’t know a lot of young, childless women that don’t want to eventually have babies at some point in their lives.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, so either or. Someone about my age would probably also have almost grown kids, and that might be better. I'd like to move in the near future, and most people don't want to take kids away from their grandparents and family. So I might be stuck out of luck until I move.

[–]DXBrigade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some women don't care about getting married but that's a minority.

[–]MoodyBrizo 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

that I can tell everything to

I've got bad news for you.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao touché

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Damn I wish this was the way it was. That'd be great.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sshhh- don't ruin it for the few of us left that still have some delusion:D

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ha! Man I'd like that shit back.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Like others have said this is an LTR, and I'm with you I like having sex with a girl I'm emotionally close to and familiar with rather than random ONS. Even outside of a relationship I'd rather do FWB.

But this isn't really a description of or argument for marriage. Personally I see no reason to get married instead of having an LTR and I've yet to see a convincing argument for why I should change my mind despite how frequently this is discussed here.

Before anyone says kids, I don't want kids they're awful.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Haha, yeah, all I got left to add would be that it might feel good to occasionally throw out the "my wife" phrase, but I admit you guys are making valid points.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I've chatted to my gf about this and she's said that as well. She likes the idea of being called "my wife" and getting to call me "her husband." That's pretty much all there is to it.

It is cute don't get me wrong, I see where she's coming from, but that's hardly a reason to make such a huge decision. She agrees with me too and says she doesn't mind if we get married or not.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, I see the point of "if it's not broke, don't fix it."

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don’t want to rain on your relationship parade, but I can almost guarantee that as time goes on and you have many years together with you keeping her as perma-girlfriend, she’ll begin to resent you. While she might agree with you now, she likely won’t in 5yrs. If you guys are still together, of course. And resentment is a relationship destroyer.

As much as marriage is a “risk” for men, remaining unmarried is a risk for women.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As much as marriage is a “risk” for men, remaining unmarried is a risk for women.

But marriage is a risk, too, especially as you get older. If your spouse gets sick and you're legally married, YOUR savings and retirement account probably will be wiped out too! Or (worst case scenario -- this actually happened to me in a previous marriage) you may find that because you're legally married, your income makes your sick spouse ineligible for government assistance, but at the same time, you don't earn enough to pay for the healthcare he needs. :-(

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFMs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t want to rain on your relationship parade, but I can almost guarantee that as time goes on and you have many years together with you keeping her as perma-girlfriend, she’ll begin to resent you.

I think this is an American thing. As far as I can see European girls are a lot less hung up about this.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this really depends on other factors that bring doubts about the relationship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

We've been together for about 6 years already. She is fully aware about my views of marriage. Not been a problem.

Like /u/DaphneDK42 said I think this is an American thing. At least the only place I've ever seen this attitude is in American romcoms.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

She likes the idea of being called "my wife" and getting to call me "her husband." That's pretty much all there is to it.

So just tell people you're married.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah exactly.

[–]aznphenix0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

That's where common law starts coming in.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

Very few jurisdictions have common law marriage these days.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

The Social Security administration has a real hard-on for common-law marriages, though. Couples who "hold themselves out" as married will be treated as a legally married couple for the purpose of determining disability benefits. Beware!

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

there is no federal common law marriage and common law marriage is only legal in 11 states, what are you talking about? if yor in one of those common law states?

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I'm talking about Social Security's rules regarding common-law marriage, or, in SSA parlance, couples who "hold themselves out" as married. SSA's rules apply whether or not your state recognizes common-law marriages.

This can be a problem in the case of SSI benefits. If you are disabled but your cohabiting partner works and has income (or is also drawing a disability check), you may be denied SSI benefits if you are found to be "holding yourselves out" as married, even if you are not legally married. Your partner's income will be counted against you anyway. For example: https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/rulings/ssi/01/SSR81-04-ssi-01.html

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

throw out the "my wife" phrase

Hah. Yea for some weird (probably culturally drilled into my head) reason when people talk about their "wife" it holds some kind of extra weight than the "girlfriend" I've noticed this myself with my coworkers. It's strange to me.

[–]aznphenix8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because there' is more weight. You've gone through a social ritual that says you're publicly trying to commit to someone for life.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it LITERALLY has more cultural weight

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you but it's really hard to argue this is marriage as you say. That's just an LTR. You can make a million arguments for LTRs but marriage is really just for kids and social standing on top of that.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Marriage is for people who have that and want to commit to keeping it that way

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

But that isn't how it works lol

[–]whichbladeNA Paler Shade of Purple7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, but I would hope the motivation for anyone getting married is, "I want this person in my life for the rest of my life."

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Sure it does, I've witnessed it.

[–]concacanca3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The high divorce rate proves you completely wrong. Divorce is troublesome and can be costly but isn't exactly a commitment that withstands much more pressure than an LTR. The ones who stay together would have done so without marriage except in a small number of cases - and those usually because of kids.

[–]aznphenix5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you that marriage itself isn't what keeps people together, but the people determined to make things work will get married, so you can't really separate them.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought the divorce rate was at MOST 50% And it decreases given certain demographics. How does that discount that such happy long term committed non db marriages are possible? My fiance's parents are happily married, still attractive, and obviously doing great multiple decades later. I know many marriages of varying degrees of success and happiness. The fact that not all of them, close to half, don't make it is rather meaningless to me. I feel like most people who marry don't do so with enough care, so that accounts for a good portion of said divorce rate.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The statistics I've seen would disagree. There was a study done about couples who were co-habitating with kids vs couples who were married with kids and I wanna say all (I don't remember exactly, I'll look it up if anyone cares enough) the co-habitating couple's were separated within 11 years. Whereas most of the married couples were still together.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. I'd like to have a cool ring though. I've seen some out of uncommon metals like tungsten and such I was eye opened impressed by.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Don't buy into the diamond scam either if you wanna do something different for a ring. I'm sure you've already read about De Beers etc by this point.

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Don't buy into the diamond scam

Yeah -- diamonds aren't really that rare. There is no justification for the cartel's price.

They're not even that pretty IMHO.

[–]321PK 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh they’re pretty alright. Pretty is too tepid an adjective for the beauty of diamonds and gem stones.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They're just rocks. Not even interesting rocks. Graphite is actually the more interesting version of crystalline carbon.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a Reddit thing, diamonds are the devil and kids are aids here. But irl? Laff. Yaaas I knew someone would get their feels all hurty. Downvote me to the basement, the Reddit glow from my monitor reflects so great off my diamonds. 🔥

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Basically they have a warehouse full of them, and their own swat team or "hired contactors" that keep control of their operations. They are literally like a drug cartel.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

They used to yes. All sorts of very shady shit was linked to De Beers including blood diamonds etc, and they had a monopoly over the market and just stashed them in a warehouse to artificially limit supply as you said.

This is pretty much in the past now but what lives on is the perception of diamonds that De Beers marketing embedded into our culture. The idea that a wedding ring must have a diamond was literally invented by De Beers marketing and spread through ads and product placement in Hollywood and music.

And to this day most people still believe diamonds are rare, precious, and valuable. In reality since the De Beers cartel is long gone now, diamonds are not worth much on the market at all. Rubies are actually the most valuable gemstone if my memory serves me correctly. And they are very beautiful.

And people of course still believe a wedding ring must have a diamond. This literally was not a thing before De Beers told everyone to make it a thing.

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Agreed that to my knowledge, virtually every other stone is prettier, and probably more rare. Diamonds are good for saw blades and sharpening stones though.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Indeed and to their credit they are very strong. The phrase "diamonds are forever" (again invented by De Beers) is not without merit.

[–]BiggerDthanYouBluetopia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Indeed and to their credit they are very strong. The phrase "diamonds are forever" (again invented by De Beers) is not without merit.

They are very hard, but they aren't strong.

A material is only considered to be strong if it is both stiff and tough, but diamonds are brittle. They aren't durable, because they can easily be crushed with a hammer.

[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If it's any consolation there's a lot of relationships like this out there, I'm in one. You've done a great job at describing it. Oh, and sure with the right person you can tell them anything

[–]Tyler_GatsbyNo mas Sancho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you, but it's looking like I'm going to have to go to northern California or Washington or such to find her.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because I wanted a piece of the world for myself. Or maybe a place where I could view the world from, if that makes any sense.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'd be genuinely curious to hear you expand on what you mean by this.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

When I first started dating my wife she took me up camping in the Rocky Mountains. It's not really camping since there's several RVs up there. Big fire place, booze, cook on a open flame. Whole family is there; uncles, cousins, grandchildren. I'm an Army brat with no siblings so that whole weekend felt like a different life, a warm existence rather than the clinical upbringing I was used to.

I had always wanted something like that even as a kid. Just couldn't quantify it. Its pretty clear most people aren't going to care if you're alive or dead. And I wanted a place and people that cared as I do for them. A home or lake front property where you can just watch the world go by, but have a part that had a stake in you as much as you had a stake in it.

Guess you could call that family but there's a anchor to it. I felt like I had been wandering through life before that day.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for sharing that.

It sounds like above the emotional connection with your partner you also felt a sense of meaning and purpose from feeling as if you belonged with her family due to lacking that experience in your own childhood.

There is something beautiful about that. I'm glad you found happiness.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wanted a place and people that cared as I do for them

I wanted this too. Unfortunately its just an illusion. Those people are her family -- not yours. When she's done with you they go with her -- and her new guy takes your place -- you're once more left on the outside looking in.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This cuts both ways, though. If you're a woman, in all likelihood your ex-husband's family will reject you, no matter how warmly they treated you while you were married to their son/brother/dad/etc.

Ask me how I know this ... blargh.

[–]whitetrashcarlselfish ghost3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Worse for my interests, but better for my kids interests

[–]dougtulane2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the only real relationship I care to have. The first flash of love is exciting, early sexual relationships are exciting.

Marriage is really wonderful. Who was there when I discovered a hereditary heart problem? My wife. Who watches the kid when I need me time? My wife. Who picks me up when I'm down? And I reciprocate on all these things.

I've seen enough aging Playboy's to realize that it gets old and sad for all of them. I knew a guy, my dad's friend. Always had a new cute blonde on his arm every time I saw him.

He said the single most pathetic thing I've ever heard on a camping trip. When he must've been in his mid 40's, still a 'pussy hound.'

"Y'know, what? When they take off their clothes nowadays, I just want to turn around and walk out the door. I've already won. But now I've got to go through the motions, and listen to them, when I've already got everything I needed."

Motherfucker just was seeking the rush of acceptance, without wanting to go through the effort of actually having a relationship.

But you know what? If you're like this guy then fuck marriage. Keep dating. Don't have a shitty marriage where you can't share yourself or can't do any work, where you expect to be exalted because of your gender. Just be a quickly fading memory in some strangers' lives.

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[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

It's like some of these guys have never heard of the desire to grow old with someone, or the concept of sentiment.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

the desire to grow old with someone

You don't need marriage to do that.

sentiment.

"Sentiment is a chemical defect found on the losing side."

But seriously though you don't need marriage to be sentimental either.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You don't need marriage to do that.

Look, I'm an expat, and will be for the foreseeable future--if I wanted to spend my life with someone, the odds are VERY HIGH that we would need to marry for that to be feasible.

Besides, there's a very specific sentimentality that makes you want to literally become someone's family.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In your specific situation yeah it does sound like for legal reasons you need to marry for a visa. But this doesn't say much about marriage as a social concept and how it relates to a personal relationship. Only that the law is often set up so marriage is the easiest way to obtain a visa. Not exactly romance.

[–]flamingoinghomeIs three lizards in trench coat4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But the other part: becoming, in the eyes of the world, family. Married people are literally each other's "kin". Can't you see how that could be meaningful?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see how it can be meaningful to certain individuals sure. /u/Aaren_Augustine's comments are a very good demonstration of that. In his case he didn't feel much of a sense of family as a child but found it with his wife. I think that's actually pretty beautiful.

But it's again a subjective thing. To some people feeling as if they're part of a new family is a huge deal and a source of happiness. And more power to them.

But to others it may not mean as much. Maybe they actually don't get along with the family of their SO at all. Mother-in-law jokes are old as time for a reason. Meanwhile they may get along with their own families far better. Maybe their SO's family and their own clash for whatever reason and actually cause more problems and stress for the couple.

For example my dad's family hated that he married a white woman and just caused all kinds of drama. This kind of thing is not uncommon among immigrants especially first generation.

There's a million other reasons why it could cause issues too. People fail to get along all the time.

So yes I see the potential value in it. I also see the potential problems it can cause. Whether it's a good or bad thing depends highly on the views and circumstances of the couple in question.

[–]wekacuckLife is settling.-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, the social value of marriage is garbage. Divorce is fully normalized. Marriage is meaningless.

[–]YaAmar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't have the desire to grow old. I'd be happy staying young forever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1TcDHrkQYg

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

grow old with someone,

Sounds nice -- but all to often proves to be an illusory dream.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of men do it to make their women happy. I guess just like how some women have sex (when they’re not feeling it) to make their men happy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

There is those too, but they are a minority. Boys and men like the idea of marriage, they just don't like the reality.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The “reality” of your marriage is a result of the effort you put into it and the kind of expectations you have out of it. For a lot of men, the former and the latter do not match, when overtime, the former lacks and the latter continues to disproportionately increase.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you think so... I feel like both just are stuck and decrease with time as you get closer and closer to the end of your life for men. But for women only the former seen to decrease while the latter seen to increase.

[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeahhh, no. You’re describing men in marriages.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would you think men would increase expectations? I fail to see where.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

assuming you have game...

lol most men have never read Roosh or others yet still can get laid. Also explain the guys with game who still fail with women (/trp)

I don't know about marriage for myself but I do know that if you're sexually unattractive to women you should never get married. EVER. It only ends badly

​

[–]Nu_Guy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are not high SMV, you will not be picking up attractive women into your 60's and 70's.

Other than having that opportunity, I think raising a family and having a life partner who is fairly easy to get along with is one of the best most stable things you can do with the few decades we are given.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because children.

[–]LosingMoneyAllWeek0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s a pillar of civilization

Hell they taught that in Economics

[–]s86ahmed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I come from a very religious and conservative culture and marriage is pretty much expected no matter who you are. Things are changing but there's a huge stigma against guys and girls who are unmarried (in their 30s). It kills your social capital in the community. That and at least in my culture there a tons of conservative ish girls with low n counts (if any) who want a healthy monogamous marriage.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (35 children) | Copy Link

If you are a single man and still believe in marriage, why?

Faith.

I do not believe in god because I do not see evidence.

I know there is no evidence for marriage being a good idea yet I believe it.

I know it is a idiots idea and a terrible investment. But I have faith I will find a good one even with little to no evidence.

My heart do not want a world where I will always lose no matter what I do. But my brain says otherwise.

What can I do? I think I was programmed that way.

Also, I need someone to have children's with, and take care of me in old age. So... yeah.

[–]jax006Wants to bang ~20% of PPD chicks5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

and take care of me in old age.

Whenever I see people say this as a reason for having kids honestly it comes across as one of the most selfish things ever. Creating and raising a human so that your end-of-life burdens can be slightly shifted to them..

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I do not care what you think, I'll need someone to take care of me, and children are the ones to go.

[–]Eartherry2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Also, I need someone to have children's with, and take care of me in old age. So... yeah.

Nah, If you live in a western country you don't need kids for that. You'd have retirement benefits so you could just hire someone. Kids have no purpose anymore, they're luxury items these days.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

You don't think it sounds a bit miserable having to pay someone to care about you in old age?

[–]Eartherry2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Not at all. I have much more control if I'm paying someone. They'll have verifiable training, easier access to medical equipment, not to mention the motivation to keep getting paid for a job well done. Not that I wouldn't want any family around at all, I just really want to be cared for by people that know what they're doing.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Let's not forget that you have absolutely no guarantee your hypothetical children would be around to look after you in old age anyway. I mean they'd be adults themselves at that point with their own lives, jobs, relationships, maybe even kids of their own to look after. They're not gonna be around 24/7 to take of you.

This is assuming one lives in a Western culture anyway. I know it is different in Asian cultures.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah people keep bringing this up, but for me the achievement isn't just making kids, it's making kids who are raised well and actually like you. If your kids don't want to help you when you're old you've done something wrong.

My husband and I have spoken about this at length as our parents get older and can't fathom ever leaving them in paid care. We're setting ourselves up now so that in the next few years our parents will be able to move in with us whenever they need to. My parents did the same for our grandparents and it wasn't a huge sacrifice.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If your kids don't want to help you when you're old you've done something wrong.

Sure, if your kids love you they will want to visit occasionally and help you out. But you can't expect them to be there giving you full time care when they have lives of their own with obligations to other people.

My parents have said they don't expect me to drop the rest of my life to care for them in old age as that wouldn't be fair on me. But they don't wanna go to a home either. They're planning to have a live-in carer when they get old enough to need constant care.

I think that makes the most sense and it's not at all unreasonable to live your own life instead of looking after your parents 24/7 when you have your own job, relationship/marriage, possibly your own kids to look after.

Doesn't mean you don't love your parents, just means realistically you can't be there to provide 24/7 care without sacrificing your obligations to others you care about.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh sure if they're sick enough to need full-time care you hire a pro. But for little things and day to day support and I think it's fine for the children to provide this. Even now I organise all my dad's finances and and doctor stuff, and my brother spends a good amount of time at his place fixing things and just helping out and being there. I'm not saying kids should give up their lives, but knowing you have love and support as you age is a big deal. These guys are talking as if hiring a nurse to wipe your butt is somehow going to fill the same role that a lifelong wife and children/grandchildren who love you would.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

These guys are talking as if hiring a nurse to wipe your butt is somehow going to fill the same role that a lifelong wife and children/grandchildren who love you would.

Well they provide different roles as you just said. Certainly I have no problem helping my parents do stuff I'm good at like fixing technical problems and so on. And I'd visit just to be there and provide company in their old age absolutely. But if they get to the point where they need to be taken care of, that's not something I'd be able to do nor is it something I'm really qualified to do.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah I agree. I think we're talking about different things. I'm more getting at the emotional connection and support. I would hate for my dad to be sitting alone all day waiting for the nurse to come give him meds. Like yeah we'll hire a carer if it comes to that, but he'll be living with us, having meals with us, etc. Same with my husband's mum. We joke about starting a family commune for all our ageing relatives lol. But I'm super family-oriented and would love to have everyone around all the time.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I guess I'd rather have someone to actually care about me, not just do it for a paycheck

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Id rather have someone around who cares about me to monitor things and give me love and comfort and a professional to do the real care

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup same.

Edit: was more getting at this idea that you can replace the care of a wife/family as you age with a professional carer and get the same out of it. Sure a nurse can look after you, but they can't provide the feeling of someone actually giving a shit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I live in Brazil.

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

and take care of me in old age.

Good luck with that. One of the cruelest lessons of TRP is that men cannot depend on their wives when they get sick or decline.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

That's bs. I know so many older women who care for their sick old husbands. Men are far more likely to leave their sick wife.

https://psychcentral.com/news/2009/11/11/men-more-likely-to-abandon-partner-during-illness/9479.html

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

There seems to have been a topographic reversal here. In the past women may have been more inclined to care for sick old husbands. However, for women who came of age in the 70s and beyond that is no longer the case.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Based on what? TRP's super legit anecdotal experience?

Women born in the 70s don't have sick elderly husbands to look after yet.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Actually many women born in the early seventies have spouses in their late 40s and early 50s. An age when men start having some serious health issues to deal with.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Early 50s isn't that old. 50 year olds don't need carers.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

An age when men start having some serious health issues to deal with.

Not incapacitating health issues.

[–]reluctantly_red-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not incapacitating health issues.

That's an interesting point. Indeed my experience and observations lead me to believe that women in their 40s and early 50s are quick to bail at the first signs of decline. When they do this they don't face the stigma of leaving a seriously compromised spouse. Bailing early also increases the chances the woman can hook up with a guy who is less compromised.

[–]poppy_blublack midget wine mom 🍷2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know why you think that when research consistently shows mennare more likely than women to leave a sick spouse.

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The so called research seems to be one study of brain cancer patients from 2009.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or it could just be that 40s/50s is when people tend to divorce anyway. There's nothing to suggest women are leaving at 50 so they don't look bad leaving an 80 year old. That's just something you made up.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin✡️🐈✡️ the purring jew2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How do you know this we arent even 50 yet

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I said come of age starting in the seventies but regardless lots of women in their 40s have guys a few years older. Its been my experience that 40 something women are very quick to bale. The thinking seems to be that if the current model is faltering its their last chance to trade him in for a different model.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I think you have to look at the guy's behavior. Is he trying to take good care of himself so as to go into old age as healthy and fit as possible, or is he drinking, smoking, overeating, etc.? Does he get regular physicals, follow his doctor's advice and properly address any problems that come up?

My boyfriend's family has a horrible history of Type 2 diabetes. It's not a question of "if" they'll develop it, but "when." My boyfriend, having seen firsthand how diabetes kills you (it ain't pretty) is very, very proactive about his health. He eats clean, gets lots of exercise and regularly monitors his blood sugar even though it's always been normal (so far ... knock on wood). His brother, OTOH, has full-blown uncontrolled diabetes and is losing his eyesight as a result. It's very sad.

Now, I know my man will probably get sick too eventually, but I figure the longer he can stave it off, the less severe it will probably be, and he'll be at lower risk to develop the really nasty complications like amputation and blindness. I also know that when the time comes, he'll monitor his blood sugar religiously and take his medication. So I can't really see it causing a rift in our relationship ... but if he were like his brother, I'd be mad as hell.

(BTW, women have a responsibility to take care of themselves, too ... this cuts both ways.)

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah -- diabetes is a bitch. I got diagnosed with Type 2 about five years ago. It was one of the things that reduced my value and I feel resulted in my wife leaving (I had a heart issue too). I changed my entire life -- including having weight loss surgery. I work out very hard at least three times every week. My blood sugar is normal again and a surprisingly simple procedure fixed my heart issue. My jeans have gone from size 52 to size 34. I did this by myself -- when my health started to tank my wife kicked me to the curb without a second thought. This after I'd stuck by her side through several health issues she had.

Got to say that being alone in a cardiac ICU really really sucks. Fortunately I'm a stubborn ass who doesn't give up easily.

A rather ironic development is that my ex-wife's new guy has gained a lot of weight over the last two years (she has a bad effect on guys). I make sure to wear well fitting jeans and a t-shirt when I swing by her (his) place to pick-up or drop-off the kids. I'm definitely not above savoring schadenfreude moments.

[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL, good for you! And good that you got your health under control. I think if I had stuck to doing office work, I'd probably be in trouble by now; luckily my lifestyle ensures I get plenty of exercise even though I'm not exactly skinny. Blood sugar has been normal so far, knock wood. My boyfriend's brother is going blind, though; his sister has metabolic syndrome and their mom (who is in her 80s) is in danger of kidney failure and has a very restricted diet as a result. My boyfriend has other serious health problems as well but he is proactive about taking care of himself and I'm grateful for that. If anything happened to him, I'd have my hands full here, that's for sure! :-o

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s the reverse actually. Men leave their wives at higher rates when they get sick.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah, like i said, there is no evidence it ever gonna work.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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