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Q4MEN: Why do men always persevere and spend years and years trying to fix a relationship problem?

September 7, 2017
2 upvotes

Whereas women tend to run/branch swing?

Edit: Men don't seem to ever be hypergamous, they seldom think there would be a better woman out there. When there are relationship problems they tend to work at it.....until typically the woman strays and the relationship ends.

Women seem to stray much more easily, at the first sign of trouble that has potentially no solution, she branch swings.

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Post Information
Title Q4MEN: Why do men always persevere and spend years and years trying to fix a relationship problem?
Author vanBeethovenLudwig
Upvotes 2
Comments 82
Date September 7, 2017 2:08 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4men-why-do-men-always-persevere-and-spend-years.266155
https://theredarchive.com/post/266155
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6ynfc8/q4men_why_do_men_always_persevere_and_spend_years/
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Comments

[–]DebatePonyLet's ride!13 points14 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Do they though? I mean isn't there a trope of a cheating husband and/or "trading in for a newer model"? How about trophy wives?

What about women who spend years of their lives caring for ill husbands?

[–]Butt-Factory5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

In my purely anecdotal experience, I would have to agree that men are more likely to cling to a sinking ship relationship and try to "fix" things instead of move on. Every man I've ever initiated a breakup with has spent months and sometimes years trying to rekindle and try again, even when it is glaringly obvious that the relationship is totally hopeless.

Again, that's just my experience.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think this is because you are hot.

[–]Butt-Factory0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Perhaps, but most of my exes are also hot.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough!

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've seen this too. Betas need some redpilling

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's because you have options and he probably doesn't.

[–]Butt-Factory1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Attractive men always have options. I've never been anyone's first and only girlfriend.

[–]analt223No Pill3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

the amount of men who actually have the opportunity to "trade in for a younger woman" is extremely low. Its pretty much a small % of high earning men who get that opportunity

[–]dakruNeither2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Then, assuming women are more likely to branch swing, you think it's more a difference in opportunity than desire?

[–]analt223No Pill2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Most likely. A lot of the issue stems from women get approached and men do not. The vast majority of men do not get approached. Heres how i look at it. There are 365 days in a year. Lets say a woman only has a 1% chance to get approached on any given day (which is extremely low for a large chunk of women to the women I've talked too). That means in one year, a woman gets 3.65 opportunities to leave, and thats with an awfully low estimated approach rate. Men don't get the opportunity, thus it happens much much less often.

Most men never get approached. Its honestly the number one cause of a "patriarchy" (we live in a society where men are the majority of the utmost powerful, just for none of the reasons why feminists say it is....also men are the vast majority of the complete down and out but rarely mentioned).

Rich men get treated like women. They get approached by the opposite sex. Its pretty hard to be rich, as being rich means you are doing better than others in a very tangible way. By definition its rare.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

You're only talking about one specific scenario of a spouse stepping out. This type of shit can occur with work colleagues, friends of friends, sisters of girlfriends. And other cruddy shit.

[–]analt223No Pill0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

the one specific scenario i listed is way more frequent than the ones you mentioned. And some of the ones you mentioned are nested under the scenario i described.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

What? A taken person getting to know someone in a platonic way that then develops into a full blown affair? That's like the most common one. And usually happens within the workplace.

[–]analt223No Pill1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

"platonic way". Come on dude. Men at the workplace know what they are doing.

Male/Female both hetero completely platonic friendships dont exist anyway, well they do but they are fucking rare as hell.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Projection.

[–]analt223No Pill0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Reality.

[–]TheBookOfSeilCuckleberry Finn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Male/Female both hetero completely platonic friendships dont exist anyway

They exist for people who are independent and have goals other than "seeecksss" -foaming at the mouth-

[–]single_use_accTaupe Enema0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women/BP boys think it's all men because women simply do not see the men who don't have this option...

...the only men they see are the ones they fantasise about dropping their current relationship and ending up with her.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And all the stats that say men cheat more (only by a slim margin these days). But we're hardly pulling this claim out of thin air.

[–]Sunhappy_DC 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

lazy post is lazy.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigroses are red, feminists are blue0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, I could give plenty of examples but I feel like most people know them. DB or shrew girlfriends/wives.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks for the edit.

[–]EliteSpartanRangerNice Guys Don't Ask For Rewards0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

like u/rulenumber303 says they often don't actually try to fix it by getting to the core of the problem, they just endure it

[–]sittinginabaralone6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The same reason people stay at dead end jobs. They have no other choice.

[–]theambivalentrooster10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sweeping generalization without a shred of evidence.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigroses are red, feminists are blue0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

All the evidence would be anecdotal or personal, anyway.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Come on, you can't even find a survey about this?

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Divorce usually hurts men financially more than it does women. Other than that, when there is a relationship that is not marriage, I've seen men cheat just as much as women do.

[–]Butt-Factory4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A trend I've noticed in my own life is that a man will cheat and still want/ expect the relationship to continue, whereas women usually cheat because they're done.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure. This would fit in with the polygyny/hypergamy narrative. Many men like the idea of having multiple partners, and idealistically think that having another girlfriend/mistress will make the one who he is with want to compete for his sexual attention more (high-level dread).

[–]Butt-Factory7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Only what usually happens is the man gets dumped and then cries and begs to be taken back for months or years

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

months or years

Good god this is the saddest

Put them out of their misery

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

easy .

most men have a harder time getting women than women have ( or think they have) getting men.

also. womens sex drive is much more responsive - she has no particular need for sex if a guy doesn't do something to turn her head that way.

Or at least thats what I see here.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

came here to say this.

Scarcity Mentality and Oneitis. Two of the first things a newly red pilled man learns about. Red Pill 101.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigroses are red, feminists are blue0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

But that's what I don't get - men seem to get oneitis much more frequently than women. Why? Women seem to have no problem branch swinging whereas men will have eyes and commitment to one woman for a long time.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rollo calls it the "War Brides" phenomenon. Women evolved to be able to get past and get over a previous man in their lives because they had to. Most of the time a relationship ended because the man died, and she needed to be able to put that past her quickly so she could 'bond' with another man.

The theory is controversial, but it fits.

Also, I'd say that women have an easier time avoiding oneitis simply because sex, relationships, male interest, etc. are much easier for women to get than for men. Men have a much harder time getting sex, relationships and ginning up female interest in them. So when we get a girl, we want to hold onto her because we know how hard it was to get this one, and we can't replace her nearly as easily as she could replace us.

[–]decoy88Black Male in London1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When a young woman keeps constantly rejecting guys for a year after her breakup. That's likely because she's still thinking of her ex

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Oneitis is driven by biological constructs as well as a man's belief about the one they love. They see her in an idealistic way that transcends most other feelings and beliefs.

It also depends on how a man loves. Not all men idealize their object of love and basically don't create oneitis.

Whereas women focus on benefits and how they feel now. When that doesn't jive for long enough, there's little keeping her around if she has options and is attractive to men.

[–]OfSpock1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

So, he doesn't actually love her, he loves his fantasy?

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Both. Plus women are incredibly fantastical.

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

how can he love her, if he doesn't even see her?

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There isn't really a her to see. There's how she is based on behavior and that's mostly all. Anything else is accounted for, say, her merit achievements and contributing skills.

Like, part of women being so undefined is to allow for men to see what they want in her and for her to be able to also craft the image she wants others to see.

[–]OfSpock2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course there's a her to see. Men who don't see that are just shitty partners.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. But there's basically no way I can make you see what I do.

Women are not deep, they are not even shallow.

[–]vanBeethovenLudwigroses are red, feminists are blue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you explain some of these fantasies???? I mean besides the given physical beauty.

[–]Il128 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Do not as a man ever try and fix a relationship. Fix yourself and move on.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is the manifestation of bad relationship skills.

[–]Il128 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't agree at all. It's impossible to fix relationships as the only person you can change is you.

I guess the "move on" part bothered you, but in all honesty how many broken relationships has anyone, you, me, etc. ever fixed?

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What are you talking about? I change my woman aplenty.

If you're not bending a woman to your will you're fucking up.

I've broken and fixed my current relationship a couple times now too. Actually by breaking them is when you can exact more specific and desired change too, the emotional vulnerability at that moment leaves women far more open to being affected.

[–]Il128 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think manipulation really works in the long run.

Sides, I want a partner not a slave.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think manipulation really works in the long run.

It does. Especially when being lightly manipulative is your normal.

Sides, I want a partner not a slave.

Meh. Slaves are great. I don't need another me. I need someone to serve me.

Someone's the master. Might as well be me.

[–]EsauTheRed1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

IME I put way more effort into maintaining a relationship - but also policing the woman

Women IME will not take responsibility in a relationship or make much effort to maintain one, it's like pulling teeth to get them to admit they are wrong, it's better not to expect too much tbh

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

The more fear a woman has about the relationship possibly ending, the more she'll try to make it work and bend over backwards for you.

granted bending over forwards is mighty great too

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

She won't bend over as far as you'd like, she was already cooking meals, completely submissive sexually.

When women lose the ability to psychologically manipulate you, they will not see the relationship as worth it.

[–]darla101 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That is a pretty dark perspective. I don't think women's end game is to psychologically manipulate.

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Probably most "redpill" oriented men have a presentation problem, and in this particular case I think the woman was merely using me and manipulating me

I don't know what you associate w/ the word manipulation, or whether you believe in unconscious manipulation, or whether it is not manipulation if not done with intent

[–]darla100 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me, the word manipulation implies intent.

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Then we need a new word for unintentional manipulation, men consider it something they should watch out for

[–]darla100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

'Unintentional manipulation' is a term used by someone in emotional pain who tries to shift a portion of the responsibility for that pain onto another person.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

She won't bend over as far as you'd like, she was already cooking meals, completely submissive sexually.

She was already doing this?

When women lose the ability to psychologically manipulate you, they will not see the relationship as worth it.

Huh. Yes. True for sure. Is this what happened to you?

[–]EsauTheRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, sex was no longer enough to smooth things over for me, and I believe she was trying to use sex to get me to overlook something I could not overlook, where I was looking for guilt, groveling, unprompted apologies - the sort of thing I would do in the same position

In the end, she was okay with letting it go and couldn't do what I needed her to do - she did complain about anxiety, biting her nails (a habit I did not like in her), etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only beta men do that because they don't have replacement options. Or married men who don't want to lose their kids and pay child support.

Most guys with no ring and no kids dump chicks at the first sign of trouble

[–]single_use_accTaupe Enema1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we actually put all the effort and time into the relationship; women don't have to do anything to get a new one.

We have much more invested.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's just indicative power in the relationship - the person clinging on for dear life is clearly the one with less.

[–]dicklord_airplane1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i don't think that this is a gendered thing. i see plenty of women who do the same thing even while all of their friends tell them to get out.

when people do this, it's often because that's how their parents and other family members behaved. they grew up seeing fucked up, dysfunctional, incompatible relationships as normal, so they end up doing the same thing without realizing that they can choose to live differently.

also, i think a ton of people are terrified of being single and looking for new partners, especially if they have been in relationships for most of their lives. they feel like they won't be able to find another partner and will die alone, so they cling to what they have.

for guys who have been in relationships for long periods, they are particularly afraid that they will not find anyone to have sex with if they leave their long term relationships. and that's a legitimate fear for average dudes.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't know, it didn't work for 8 years. Neither one of us appreciated it either. Idealism perhaps. Vows most likely.

Now it's self-improvement and working towards my life goals. My wife will stay or she will not. I'll be great either way.

Women branch swing because they are afraid of being alone. Running is a power play.

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[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU MY DOGS WILL7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

When there are relationship problems they tend to work at it

do they? or do they blithely coast along in mediocrity, until the woman becomes fed up with his regressive averageness and nukes the relationship.

Women are the relationship caretakers and they will try to fix things via talking, therapy, sharing shit, whatever. However because women are ssssooOOOoooOOOoooOO mysterious/naggy/bitchy our average dumbfuck will tune out or not even notice her attempts (as obscure as they may be) at fixing shit.

The only time average dumbfucks try to fix shit is when the sex tap runs dry or the woman encases her self in a cocoon of bitchiness. Nevermind that fissures turned to cracks and now the foundation is gone, by god, our average dumbfuck is going to hold on and fix this relationship.

See! men are more loyal!

[–]OfSpock3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, this is what I have seen.

Woman voices concern. Man makes assurances/small amount of effort before lapsing back into previous behaviour.

Repeat a few times.

Woman says she's done.

Man realises something is wrong and panics. Would he actually change at this point. We'll never know.

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man realises something is wrong and panics. Would he actually change at this point. We'll never know.

He'll change for like 3 days.

[–]darla100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This happens all the time. Happened in my first marriage. I hated being bitchy. Then when I gave up, he suddenly panicked. But it was too late. I was over it.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When there are relationship problems they tend to work at it

do they? or do they blithely coast along in mediocrity, until the woman becomes fed up with his regressive averageness and nukes the relationship.

Plenty do.

Women are the relationship caretakers and they will try to fix things via talking, therapy, sharing shit, whatever. However because women are ssssooOOOoooOOOoooOO mysterious/naggy/bitchy our average dumbfuck will tune out or not even notice her attempts (as obscure as they may be) at fixing shit.

This is true while she still has hope, an overall positive feeling state of her relationship.

The only time average dumbfucks try to fix shit is when the sex tap runs dry or the woman encases her self in a cocoon of bitchiness. Nevermind that fissures turned to cracks and now the foundation is gone, by god, our average dumbfuck is going to hold on and fix this relationship.

See! men are more loyal!

Humans are massively incentive based, plus there's the whole issue of hopelessness and despair.

[–]damaskroseBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men don't leave but they don't try to fix things either, they act like an employee that's just doing the bare minimum to not get fired.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because they are expected/pressured to, to a lot of people I know (but equally left and right-leaners) any relationship problems are assumed to be the mans fault, thus, it is on him to fix his mistake.

[–]Tyler_Gatsby 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

IME, it was b/c I genuinely loved her, and didn't want to start over looking for that again. Looking back, I think she was/is probably more on the autistic spectrum, and just slips by with it, b/c attractive woman with boobs.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Was she fun to talk to? Surprising even?

[–]Tyler_Gatsby 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, on both. She was fascinated by a few things I found interesting, and had an unusual outlook on things, so I often had no idea what was about to come out of that big mouth of her's.

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

dope pizza candy sauce

[–]Love8DeathPost-RP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The nature of male love is very different, as well as the lack of abundance mentality in most men.

[–]TheBookOfSeilCuckleberry Finn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Always? I wouldn't say always. Sometimes, the "shoe is on the other foot," with relationships. Occasionally, it's the man trying to "fix" it, or it's the woman.

Whoever wants to fix it enough will put in the time and energy to fix it. If it can't be fixed (or the other person doesn't want to have it fixed), they're probably better off going their separate ways.

Why the need to generalize over this?

[–]Talkytalktalk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only top tier men can monkey branch easily. Your average woman can do it easier than the average man.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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