Question for the Blue Pill

Abracadanielle · 2013-12-20T05:45:06+00:00

I believe that people are people, and that there is no trick to understanding either men or women. I believe that if you have a series of failed relationships, there's usually only one common denominator. I don't think it's smart to pick partners based on appearance alone. I don't think mindgames are ever a good idea. I don't think sexual past should have an impact on current trust levels, meaning that I don't think promiscuity in the past guarantees infidelity in the future. I also don't think promiscuity and cheating go hand in hand. I don't believe honest one-night-stands make someone sexually untrustworthy if they want to settle down later in life. I don't believe that women are inherantly less mature or intelligent than men or vise versa. I believe in a woman's right to chose. I believe that women should have access to birth control. I don't believe in strictly supporting traditional gender roles, but I also believe that if both halves of a couple want to live by traditional gender roles, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think it's healthy to shame men for exhibiting traditionally feminine traits/actions nor to shame women for acting traditionally masculine. I think it's worth observing that all habits seems to come naturally to everyone until they become often shamed out of it.

myfriendscantknow · 2013-12-20T05:48:05+00:00

Getting laid isnt all that hard. Present yourself well, approach women and flirt heavily, sooner or later someone will want to fuck you even if its in spite of yourself. All "game" really is is a way to try and smooth over insecurities associated with asserting oneself by presenting a narrative tailored to making men feel powerful and superior.
feminism is more a convenient boogyman for said insecurities than it is a thing that really affects hooking up in the real world.
Are men and women different? Broadly speaking probably yeah. Are the differences that big? Not really. The whole concept of stuff like "solipsism" and "hamstering" is essentially an excuse to reinforce how rational and right you are by biological virtue of being a man rather than attempt to see things from womens point of view.

mrsamsa · 2013-12-20T03:50:02+00:00

It obviously makes no sense to ask for "the blue pill's beliefs" as there's no such thing as 'blue pill beliefs', but my own personal take is: I have no affirmative theory on sexual dynamics.

The reason I'm here (as I assume someone might think or ask what I'm doing here if I don't have a position) is that I'm interested in practically all things psych related and the question of sexual dynamics necessarily touches on psychology. My hope was that when people made big claims about sexual dynamics (whether they're from TRP or TBP), they'd have evidence to support them.

So far it seems like anecdotes all the way down.

Dip_the_Dog · 2013-12-20T05:43:47+00:00

This is exactly how creationists argue against evolution. "Well if God didn't create life then how did life start"? I don't need a working theory of abiogenisis to disagree with ID and I don't need an "affirmative theory on sexual dynamics" to disagree with TRP either.

[deleted] · 2013-12-20T06:12:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2013-12-21T00:33:02+00:00

I believe the differences between individual people is greater than the difference between men and women. I believe someone's personal values, body language, and upbringing tend to be a much better indicator of how they will tend to act than their gender.

As far as psychology, I personally get a lot of great results from something very simplified and basic known as the "6 Human Needs psychology" which posits that most human actions stem from 6 major human needs as follows:

The 4 most essential needs that everyone finds a way to fulfill in some way (even if it's destructive):

Comfort / Stability
Variety / Excitement
Love / Connection
Significance / Feeling Important

Then the 2 "higher" human needs, to feel totally fulfilled:

Growth / Learning
Contribution / Feeling like you're giving back.

According to human needs psychology, most problems can be stemmed back to someone not getting one of these needs fulfilled to their satisfaction. Additionally, people often seem to favor one or two needs above the others, and they can fulfill their needs in a variety of ways.

For example, one person may feel safe and comfortable as long as they have the support of their family behind them, while someone else won't feel comfortable until their house is paid off, or they have a certain amount of money in the bank.

Let's give some interpersonal examples:

So in the case of a relationship, if someone seems bored, this psychology states that this is the result that he or she isn't getting one of their important needs met in a satisfactory way. Maybe they aren't getting the variety they need, or feel they aren't progressing in life, aren't feeling significant, etc. Whereas TRP might say you need to play Dread Game because your SO seems to have lost attraction to you, human needs psychology suggests you figure out what's the true problem stems from and address that directly.

In my relationship, I've recognized that my partner highly values comfort and significance, so I go out of my way to make sure he always has the comforts he needs, and he always realizes he's the most significant person in my life. I try to always point out the ways I notice he improves my life, both to him and other people, and that seems to make him very happy. For comfort, he really needs to feel like he can be left alone sometimes so he can unwind and play video games. I go out of my way to make sure he gets plenty of alone time so when he seems stressed, I will guard his time and make sure no one else can bother him until he's had time to unwind. I'll answer phone calls, help do errands, cook, clean, etc.

In response, he realizes I crave both variety and the feeling that I'm learning and making progress. He's always down to plan a night away when I'm getting restless (we work from home) and he's supportive of all the time I spend redditing and researching. He'll invite me to go out when he realizes I've spent too much time at the house. He patiently listens when I talk to him about some new anthropology find, or about a new documentary I just watched, because he knows this type of stuff is important to me even if it's not his cup of tea.

Another example: In the case of wanting a relationship, someone might look at why they want a relationship - what's actually missing from their life? By directly addressing that underlying need immediately, they are making themselves more happy, building a long-term base for self-fulfillment, while also putting themselves out there to meet more people.

In a lot of ways, it encourages many of the same behaviors as TRP: you must acknowledge that the only thing you have control over is yourself, you must take responsibility for your own problems, and that often starts with change from within.

I like this idea better because it seems to acknowledge that everyone is different, while giving you a structure to help you navigate through new social situations or problems. Instead of comparing people to other people of their gender, it gives you a much more precise set of tools to understand what's actually going on beneath the surface. It's definitely not perfect, but when I'm confused about my feelings or how someone is acting, I can usually gain some insight from trying to think about how it relates to 6 Human Needs. It's definitely not the answer to everything, but I find it to be a very helpful tool in my life.

I also use a variety of other self-help frameworks, especially when I'm struggling with a problem for a long time. I feel like I gain a lot by being able to identify what's really going on with both me and the other person, and I try to use that information to help me decide the best way to move forward.

GaiusScaevolus · 2013-12-20T02:18:36+00:00

My affirmative theory on sexual dynamics? People are way too complicated to be put into a theory like that. Don't over think it, it's just sex.

Abracadanielle · 2013-12-20T02:23:14+00:00

I believe that dealing in generalities and assumptions is not conducive to genuinely connecting with other people. Rather than approaching my boyfriend thinking "men tend to be awful for x, y, and z reasons, better guard myself!", I approached him thinking "Wow, he's cute and we seem to have similar senses of humor. I'd like to get to know him more!" Yes, it's possible he could have been an abusive asshole--some people are!--but I wouldn't have been doing either of us any favors by centering our relationship around guarding myself against all of the possible ways for him to screw me over.

Instead, I was optimistic (some would even say naive) and once I decided to be with him, I committed to him. Generally, over the last year and a half, I have erred on the side of trusting him, rather than being skeptical and assuming every woman he comes in contact with or knew years ago is a threat to our relationship. I have faith in him, and he in me, and we're open and about our level of commitment to each other.

We have frequent discussions about our sex life, because we're both interested in the other's pleasure. That mentality actually extends throughout our entire relationship: we take care of each other, and we rarely have fights. Over the twenty months since we became a couple, we have only had one serious fight, and that was because of the limitations of text messaging while we were in different cities. The relative harmony in our relationship is not because I defer to him as my Captain, but because we talk through our issues together as equals. When a problem arises, we are open about our opinions and our feelings, and we respect each other. There's no need for any games in our relationship because we've found that a direct, honest conversation can go a whole lot further towards actually fixing our problems.

He neither puts me on a pedestal nor views me as a teenaged hamster, and I don't see him as a master or a walking wallet. Our relationship works because we respect each other as intelligent, rational individuals.

Archipelagi · 2013-12-20T02:14:38+00:00

My theory is that any theory that proclaims women to be emotionally stunted children that are incapable of love, honor, loyalty, or rationality is complete and utter bollocks.

[deleted] · 2013-12-24T03:44:30+00:00

an alpha trait that is attractive to women

This definition is so malleable it is specious. If we can assume women's desires exist on a spectrum, an alpha trait is alpha if it matches the right set of women. This in turn means an alpha trait is defined by the woman it attracts. No need to tell me TRP aims for the middle of the normal distribution. So a trait that is attractive to 20% of women and will give you sexual access to those women, is that an alpha trait?

But that's if we assume /r/theredpill exists to identify and cultivate alpha traits. It's not, given the frequent advice to "next" the woman. If one is actively trying to attract a woman, there would be tips on Plan B, what to do when nothing else is working. There's not. Ejecting a woman because she doesn't conform to a preconceived idea of how a relationship should be is the opposite of attracting her. Nexting is a selection process, the alpha traits are pre-defined traits one adopts in order to attract a certain specific type of woman, and steer the relationship into a power dynamic where the woman is not an equal.

I don't know how TRP came to believe non-TRP people (I'll refrain from using BluePillers to avoid confusion with the circlejerk subreddit) believe they are special snowflakes. The "special snowflake" seems a needless pejorative. I believe when people share social-economic and educational similarities, the chance for their happiness and longevity of relationship increases. People select within their "league", and there are tradeoffs. Minus the self-improvement advice, which is pretty scanty in relation to the endless posts about women behaving badly and how to treat women badly, what does TRP really offer on sexual dynamics? That women want to be dominated? Is that all it is?

To infer that most men have problem getting laid without the TRP kind of help from the "billion dollar dating industry, self-help books, number of subscribers to blogs, webpage and search hits" is to infer that most people have a problem cooking food and feeding themselves, by the same data points. There are over 44,000 cookbooks offered on Amazon, and ~12,000 books offered on marriage, ~11,000 offered on interpersonal relationships. Clearly, people have more of a problem making food than finding mates. /s

IRScientist · 2013-12-20T03:19:29+00:00

Different strokes for different folks. People are complex and therefore will have complex relationships with each other. Because people are different, their relationships with one another will look different.

slothsie · 2013-12-24T00:01:12+00:00

Certainly there are some things you feel can be assumed?

Assume that not everyone I meet wants to fuck me or be with me.

Other than that, learn to be a social person who can navigate those scary social waters. Refer back to the above statement.

I know this sounds vague, but it's really hard to convey things online, how did I become more social? Just put myself out there, find a community you can relate to, join and go to events. I used to be painfully shy and awkward. I was teased mercilessly by the 'popular' boys in middle school, I felt awful about myself, but I 'overcame' it to become an adjusted adult. If I can do that, then rpers can do that.

Life is full of risks, women aren't all evil sluts. Deal with it. That's the real reality.

Title	Question for the Blue Pill
Author	GaiusScaevolus
Upvotes	11
Comments	110
Date	December 20, 2013 12:48 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1tafli/question_for_the_blue_pill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-the-blue-pill.286462 https://theredarchive.com/post/286462