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Red or reddish pillers, in what way do you dislike r/theredpill? Blue or blueish pillers, in what ways do you like it?

October 13, 2014
15 upvotes

I agree with TRP more often than not but

a) the mods are banhappy and rude

b) there are too many guys who view their highest calling as pumping and dumping random sluts (maybe this is an age thing? I am 30 so this seems very immature to me)

c) too many guys with a "fuck you, I got mine" mentality. Not enough male support and solidarity

d) a lot of guys seem to define themselves in opposition to feminism... like they imagine what a feminist would do in any given situation then decide to do the exact opposite

e) this is minor compared to the rest but it cracks me up how obsessed some of them are with "lifting". I mean I do lift weights and I think strength training should be a part of any fitness regimen, but many TRPers act that "lifting" was the end-all-be-all of fitness and masculinity.

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Post Information
Title Red or reddish pillers, in what way do you dislike r/theredpill? Blue or blueish pillers, in what ways do you like it?
Author awesomesalsa
Upvotes 15
Comments 100
Date October 13, 2014 11:38 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/red-or-reddish-pillers-in-what-way-do-you-dislike.284622
https://theredarchive.com/post/284622
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2j3vym/red_or_reddish_pillers_in_what_way_do_you_dislike/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sort of purple/reddish although my flair is ambiguous.

  1. I dislike PUAs. They're even more focused on women. PUA are the like the people who aspire to be pro athletes but only because of the pussy they get. They've figured out how to get the pussy and they've become obsessed at getting it. At the end of the day they aren't any better for it. It's like a druggie getting his fix.

  2. Spinning plates. I did this in my pre-rp days. Wasn't for me. Too much trouble, too much jealousy, too much lying, TOO MUCH DRAMA. I found it impossible to hook up with women and them not developing feelings. I had a plate that withdrew from school when she saw me hook up with another woman. I think she had a nervous breakdown. I went along with my friends' jokes about how crazy she was but I get this sick feeling in my stomach every time I reflect on the situation. Now that I'm older I see spinning plates as the male version of friendzoning. Relationships are better IMO because you can better achieve true self improvement. For example, since I've graduated school last December I've already payed down nearly $40,000 in student loans. I have no debt. Being in a relationship means I don't spend all this time chasing/hooking up with women and spending money trying to look cool.

  3. Manipulative/abusive behavior. There is dread game and then there is convincing your wife that you're having an affair.

  4. The obsession with lifting. There are other ways to get fit. Some of these guys are channeling the body-builder look. Go to my old university's MMA club (all of us were former Division 1 wrestlers) and let's find out how well those big muscles would do for you. I was/still am very ripped but I shoot ball with some guys that couldn't bench much more than 150 lbs and they don't have any trouble with women.

  5. There is a habit of blowing smoke up their own asses which I liken very much to feminism. It's an empowerment tool but some things tend to get heavily exaggerated.

  6. The only time some RPers approve of relationships is when it has traditional roles. But at the same time they complain about divorcerape. It's irresponsibly pro-male. I like it better that my gf is working. She can't even cook eggs let alone a decent dinner. I cook every night we're at her's or my place and she cleans. There's nothing beta about that.

I guess that's enough for now.

Edit MORE

7. It's ok to do nice things for your woman. The Key is not to expect something in return even if it's validation. That's where a lot of Redpillers and newbs fail. I was going to make a post on this one day but I'm too lazy and I'm sure it wouldn't make much of an impact on that sub to begin with.

8. Provider does not mean beta. It's merely the traditional male role in a monogamous society. That being said being a provider is not what you want to be unless you have almost all of the power in the relationship (meaning that if they walk out they get nothing). Why? Because that means it's not you that they're into but what you can do for them. This brings about the least amount of loyalty.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like you. You're articulate, rational and your head is firmly on your shoulders. An upvote with extra well-wishes.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm fairly red pill in a moderate sense..

I dislike the red pill because they talk about women as if they're not even human sometimes.. Like they're a different species or something. One poster said I sound "weak" because I'm friends with women.. Maybe he couldn't sense that I hit the gym 3 days a week through my keyboard strokes?

Anyway, with the way they talk about women they're really not helping their situation at all.. Just digging a deeper hole; just like attending a KKK rally would not help you with overcoming personal issues with racism or something. Plus you're eventually going to say something that's going to drive them away if you really hold true to those beliefs. Gender/Sex does not determine whether you can or can't be a shitty person.

[–]Bonkzzilla5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Re: the "weak" comment. Yeah, one of the big things on TRP that makes me roll my eyes is the macho posturing. In a nutshell, "real" men don't posture, real men just do. Reading some of the threads in there where you've clearly got a couple of 20-something guys with little life accomplishment trying to out-macho each other is just cringe-inducing.

IMO, what they get right is the focus on self improvement and living a life that makes you desirable, and also they're one of the few places that still actually defends what might be called "traditional gender roles", which are perfectly OK if that's what works best for both parties. What they get wrong is building their whole worldview on self-glorifying ego boo instead of understanding that ultimately they are just part of the food chain too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

BINGO! I agree with 100% of everything you just said here.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The reliance on shock articles/titles(more so in the wider manosphere).

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

RoK being a prime example. Those articles are being painful to read nowadays.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

That and I think Roosh has become really jaded.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Lol you think? Roosh is clearly a very unhappy person. He has brilliant insights here and there but he's so blinded by his anger and cynicism.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thing is I have no idea if he actually believes his own bullshit or if he's just going for the clickbait. I like to imagine him going through his own website while counting his ad revenue laughing his ass off.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I totally agree. Having had a few brief chats with him he seemed more normal, but RoK is ragebait.

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

'5 reasons to date a girl with an eating disorder'…I assume only Dark Triad dudes would take this seriously.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rage porn. Most of the people who share those articles are people who are telling all their friends how awful they are. It's how they get their $$$.

[–]fchsBlue Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, does anyone really take them seriously? I mean I've only seen the article where Roosh whines about maintaining basic hygiene and the hate-filled one where he encourages people to prevent "omega males" from becoming transsexuals.

Still, the wacky shit on that site seems too... out there... even for some of the more extreme r/trpers.

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points | Copy Link

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[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, what astounds me isn't any of the comments or submissions I see on TRP per se but when a really ignorant or toxic comment gets upvoted to the sky.

Also it's funny you linked that comment because I was banned from TRP for telling illimitableman that I was sick of his poorly proofread, sociopathic ramblings.

I had been banned from TRP on other accounts but at this point I have no desire to go back there period. It has become a toxic circlejerk, no different from what they accuse feminism of being

[–]Xemnas810 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am 16 year old you unfortunately, but 21 and seriously ill because of it :/

[–][deleted] 16 points16 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I swear I go from thread to thread just upvoting you.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Red Pill too often is blind to the difference between healthy masculinity and market-manufactured masculinity.

This is huge. The bizarre worship of, say, a television character like Don Draper.

He's a creation designed to sell things; that is, the show exists to make money for the writers and television executives by selling advertising space....and the character himself mirrors this. It works very well on a meta- level.

Don Draper's job is to sell; "Don Draper"'s job is to sell. They both work.

I'm not into working all night, of existing for a corporation (/partnership), of being an alcoholic, of being constantly miserable. Jon Hamm does a good job of selling very "alpha" body language, but that's it. It's an image designed to sell.

EDIT: I say this as a guy who watched the show religiously for quite a while.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think it's a pretty slick way to advertise. Just as advertisers have always appealed to female insecurities, they're now attacking male insecurities about their "man card" in an age where what counts as "masculine" is in serious flux.

It's interesting because I grew up way out in the country, doing 'traditionally' masculine things: camping, shooting guns, chopping trees, playing football. That didn't stop me from liking literature and poetry, art, and other things that might otherwise be regarded as less 'manly.'

This sort of advertising is incredibly transparent to me, but I suppose it works because it plays on rational insecurities: who am I? Am I a man? What does being a man consist of?

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I always laugh when people try to give me crap about doing something that's not "manly." Everything is manly, it's just how you do it not what you do.

I listen to Mariah Carey while weightlifting to maximize muscle confusion. (srs)

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You've got me feeling emooooooooooooooTIONS, deeper than I've ever dreamed oofffff

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed with a lot of this.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Most men on TRP are naive, frustrated, and cling furiously to ego-protecting beliefs. Many worship money, probably in conjunction with the ego-protecting thing. Many don't realize the implications of their beliefs; again, likely to protect their egos.

So guys who realize they're not just not good looking but actually ugly think that money can save them and make them sexually attractive to women. The fact that worshiping money seems to contradict all the other self-improvement advice (that is, it makes you dependent on external and often capricious events for self-value) or that relying on money for sex is just about the definition of beta bux, doesn't seem to occur to a lot of guys.

If 80/20 is true (and it mostly is) most guys aren't and won't be sexually attractive. That includes most guys on TRP.

So, I suppose I subscribe to many RP beliefs but have a hard time turning a blind eye to all the male hamstering in TRP sub.

[–]fiat_lux_Red Pillar2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I strongly agree that wealth is overestimated in direct attractiveness. If you're a guy who makes 200K in Silicon Valley or Manhattan, you may be in one of the top percentiles still, but it's just not that impressive. Using that as a crutch in obvious ways is going to make you look conceited, and mainly just attractive to gold-diggers.

I don't think it's that common in trp to be fair to them. It's mentioned all the time that money + stable job will just turn you into a beta bucks. You see med students and even doctors and others talking about these fears in trp all the time.

Paradoxically, wealth is underestimated in many other ways. The indirect advantages are rarely talked about. E.g. transportation, time, resources, etc.

I'd see arguments between PUAs on various sites talking about where are the best places to meet, museums vs bars, or whatever. These things can be expensive. Bar-hopping and club-hopping can be expensive. You're paying for beers that you can get at half price or less from a convenience store (a hefty premium paid for the social factor). A museum pass can be expensive and can also be time consuming and costly to travel to often. Consideration is rarely given to cost and convenience. If wealth was considered and on people's minds more often as a significant factor in lifestyle, then more and better tailored ideas can be provided... like more cost-effective and convenient strategies, at least in the short term.

Also stuff like lifting for weightlifting/fitness forums/advice... Gym membership can actually be too much for some guys. Personal trainers and tailored advice is expensive. Even weights are expensive. Maybe some guy lives in a small apartment and doesn't have the space for his weights. Most people underestimate or don't even consider wealth as a factor.

[–]AerobusThe Red Pill is Truth3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you're a guy who makes 200K in Silicon Valley or Manhattan, you may be in one of the top percentiles still, but it's just not that impressive.

Can you elaborate on this? I am of the opinion that those who are in the top percentiles should be admired for being able to command such salaries. And I am definitely impressed by self made people in the top percentiles.

[–]hyperrrealLoves fun2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think he just means that in those environments 200k isn't exceptional. It doesn't distinguish you because so many people make that much money or more in those social scenes.

The other issue is how the cost of living varies from area to area. You can live like a king on 200k in Oklahoma City, but in Manhattan you're middle class at best. You can't send your kids to the best schools, afford to live in the nicest areas, go to the most expensive restaurants, etc.

[–]fiat_lux_Red Pillar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hyperrreal got my back on this one.

It's impressive enough to you and me, especially when I consider context. A guy who makes even just 100k is impressive enough to me if he came from humble beginnings and worked his ass off to get there. "Self-made people" as you put it.

It's just not exceptional on its own.

But beyond what Hyperrreal already mention, there's the problem of social context. These guys aren't uncommon here, and that leads to some other problems. If you or I think that we can flash merely 200k around, a lot of other people are thinking the same. They do that a lot and it becomes obnoxious. Even women have tried pulling that shit on me, and it's a turnoff to such a degree that it even breaks double standards of trp. (I.e. I can easily see how it would turn off women when it's coming from men as well.)

People run into this class of people everyday, and since it's common, there's less correlation to behaviour. E.g. I have a fairly beta, passive friend (even he'll tell you that), but he was risk-taking enough to invest in bitcoins earlier, and is now a bitcoin millionaire... but he laughs at being wealthy while looking and acting like stereotypical NEET. He's proud of how people perceive him like that.

So in addition to and as a result of the lack of exclusivity, a lot of PR damage is also done.

[–]MakeMoneyNotWar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

A 22 y/o college graduate who becomes an investment banker in NY starts out at over $160K in places like Goldman Sachs, JPM, or Morgan Stanley or whatever. Granted, it's not easy to be hired at Goldman but a 22 y/o doesn't have a ton of accomplishments generally speaking.

[–]AerobusThe Red Pill is Truth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Granted, it's not easy to be hired

That is an understatement. The people who get hired and make that much starting salaries are either at the top of their class, have extensive internship experience, and have gone to some elite universities (which requires academic success in their high school years).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good comment. You're right.

[–]through_a_ways1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So guys who realize they're not just not good looking but actually ugly

I think we should stop using the words "good looking" and "ugly" when referring to male attractiveness. The truth is that there are a plethora of factors (a few of them very strong) that dictate male attractiveness, and are not related to facial attractiveness, which is what people tend to think of with words like "good looking".

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Facial attractiveness matters. I'm not a RudyRude acolyte or anything (please see: EssexCountyThugLife, for instance), but there's serious denial on this point on TRP.

Is it as significant as something like social/interpersonal dominance? Probably not. A guy like Daniel Craig - good, but not great looking - can make himself a sex symbol by carrying himself in a highly 'alpha' manner in his movies.

But, really, looks still carry great weight. Zayn Malik can generate attraction because he's good looking, full stop. David Gandy sans any game will out-pull 99.9% of guys on TRP. A guy who is the looks-equivalent of Steve Buscemi will have a really tough time. A rich and famous Buscemi will be okay, because he has sufficient provisioning - but that's beta bux. Even a mega-super-duper-alpha-acting Steve Buscemi is going to have to be 100% on point to generate sexual attraction.

Women have the same genetic imperative men do when it comes to having children healthy enough to survive to reproducing age. Indicators of overall good health, disease resistance, and survival capacity matter in this regard: facial and body symmetry, low body fat, muscle tone, strong jaw, etc.

Social dominance (the result of some mix of aggression, social intelligence, alpha body language cues, and the like) matters very much too. But pretending that looks don't matter for men (and that there aren't ugly guys) is hamstering in my book.

[–]through_a_ways1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A rich and famous Buscemi will be okay, because he has sufficient provisioning - but that's beta bux.

He'll also be okay because he has fame and social status - alfalfa fux

I'm not denying that looks matter. I'm saying that there are a bunch of other factors that seem to matter more than "objective" attractiveness.

Pretending that height, social/interpersonal skill, social proof, race (potentially just a physical indicator of social proof), and a few others don't matter as much or more than physical attractiveness is hamstering in my book.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He'll also be okay because he has fame and social status - alfalfa fux

I think the positive sexual attractiveness effects of fame and status are grossly overstated. "Status" is incredibly variable - does Bill Gates' "status" as one of the more important people alive make him sexy? No. Women don't adorn their walls with Bill Gates posters and I've yet to meet a woman who expressed a desire to have 30 steamy no-strings-attached minutes with Bill Gates. The status of lead guitarist for a regional rock band often goes further.

99.99% of women wouldn't want NSA sex with Steve Buscemi. The same cannot be said about Brad Pitt, Channing Tatum, etc.

Pretending that height, social/interpersonal skill, social proof, race (potentially just a physical indicator of social proof), and a few others don't matter as much or more than physical attractiveness is hamstering in my book.

Height is part of looks, and race might be for many people. And I don't think something like social skill (socio-sexual dominance) is necessarily less important than looks. I'm saying looks are very important.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71DiH5TpjSL._SL1500_.jpg

This is on a lot of girls' walls.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/kev_bot/342469/671161/671161_original.png

This is not. Looks are a huge huge huge reason for this.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tbh i just dislike the extreme, absolute nature of both. Both subs criticism of each other (as a sub, not necessarily as a core of ideas) are p accurate imo.

That's why i come here, both sides can behave themselves and make coherent points. I'm more red than blue, but really am interested in reading criticisms of trp, not just pure snark lol.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Blue here - I do admit that there is a certain bump on the centuries old road of progress towards equality and personal autonomy, that the new situation makes some men behave in an unconfident, awkward, beshamed way that makes some women become un-aroused and sexually bored. It also gets to the extremes of masculinity getting shamed or hypogonadic behaviors praised.

I am confident we are going to iron it out. Sometimes there are road bump, sometimes you go from one extreme to another then back. I think sooner or later we will find a way how to raise men so that they just about as hairy-chested - metaphorically speaking - as any MMA fighter, yet they can respect women as fully autonomous human beings and not see them as that annoying thing around the vagina.

We live in an age of science and it is very well researched that testosterone is central to male health, scientists are looking into treating depression with it etc. so I don't a hypogonadic, emasculated age is coming. If anything, jaws are going to turn more square, not less. We just need to renconcile all that with basic human respect for women, that is all.

OTOH don't expect women to stay feminine, that is IMHO not happening, I think women are also getting a T boost in this culture and you just have to put up with manjaws and confident behavior, that girls are not going to be girly anymore, they too are getting manlier. This is not necessarily horrible in my mind, I find it good - my wife is a more reliable ally, I can count on her much more similar ways as on a male ally, than my dad could on my mother.

[–]cxj75% Redpill Core Ideas1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

OTOH don't expect women to stay feminine, that is IMHO not happening, I think women are also getting a T boost in this culture and you just have to put up with manjaws and confident behavior, that girls are not going to be girly anymore, they too are getting manlier.

PUKE. Brb going gay if this is the case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

This doesn't mean they won't wear skirts and make-up, it is just that kind of traditonally shy, submissive-feminine behavior that is less and less present and they are going to behave tougher. This does not necessarily mean unsexiness. Example: NCIS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziva_David

[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who are you trying to convince?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frankly I use these discussions to organize my thoughts and get thoughtful responses (that I can use for the same). I was trying to elicit a response whether traditionally feminine looks with non-traditional, non-submissive behavior is attractive enough for RP or not (for me it is perfectly OK), which can in turn help me figure out how things are going to work out in the future.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

About RP I dislike the anger that is not allowed to subside or worked through. RP nurtures constant stress and anger. I'm on mobile, tipsy and thus I typo. About BP.... well. Some people just do need to go through RP phase before they come out of it as a more confident and compassionate person. I used to ne a woman-hating tomboy in my teens, terribly RP. I've decided that it was a learnimg experience. BP can sometimes be a bit too harsh at people who are still amgry and hurting.

[–]through_a_ways-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

RP nurtures constant stress and anger.

No it doesn't. If you're constantly stressed and angry, you're not RP. You might think you are, but you're not.

Want to know why? Because in a relatively short time, you, everyone you've ever known, and everyone who was ever alive during your life will be gone, without any trace that they ever existed.

In a somewhat longer time, the human species will stop existing, either through evolution or extinction. Eventually, all vertebrate life on earth will stop.

Life is pure masturbation. That's RP, and the sooner you accept yourself as just a part of the universe, and not some "special snowflake", the sooner you can let go of any type of stress or anger.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What a sad way to live life. How cold and... how cold.

[–]AerobusThe Red Pill is Truth2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A lot of people on TRP lack reading comprehension skills, deny things that TRP says based off some anecdotal experience, and are unable to understand the bigger picture.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's an internet forum. It's full of idiots. All internet forums are.

I consider myself "red pill" because I accept the red pill theory, not because I go to TRP subreddit or care/agree with everything they say. I wish more people realized this distinction.

[–]soylentblueissmurfsSoylent Red3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think the sub is shit, it's full of circle jerking losers who think they've swallowed the red pill but are stuck even firmer in the blue mentality as it doesn't occur to them they haven't actually changed their thinking, just their wording. The manosphere will always be full of bloggers who sell half truths or lies because those generate more readers.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Roissy or most of the RoK bloggers, especially Roosh. But Rollo is a person for whom I have a great deal of respect both as a blogger and as a person. He is a role model who has shown that a happy maarriage and RP values are not mutually exclusive, and his writing is entirely devoid of the childish hyperbole and malicious tone of many other manosphere writers.

I'm also a fan of Dalrock although I can't relate to his religiosity at all.

[–]soylentblueissmurfsSoylent Red2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think without therationalmale I wouldn't have taken the manosphere seriously at all.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I feel the same way, and I'm apparently more red pill than you

[–]through_a_ways0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like Roissy. I find a lot of his articles to be worth reading, although that might be biased due to his turn of phrase, which I enjoy.

RoK and Roosh are pretty shitty, but they're essentially clickbait, much like HuffPo or Jizzabel.

[–]inkedpinkStrong Independent Crimson Lady3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

My problem with TRP is the idea that women are incapable of love. Oh, and the oldest teenager in the house, irks the hell out of me. The women over at RPW are grown ass women who are capable of knowing if they did something wrong on their own and can own up to it as well. I know none of those women need to be babied and they have metaphorical balls of steel.

I think it mostly stems from some feminists wanting all the equality but less consequence, resulting in a very immature image. Therefor, oldest teenager idea.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Part of it is, as you say, a reaction to the feminists' push for rights and privileges without the responsibilities.

But I think that many RPers honestly think that women tend to be less capable of objective, rational thought. I'll admit I don't find the idea entirely unconvincing. From an evolutionary perspective, it was the men who had to go out and hunt, go to war, explore, etc. These types of things require more of an objective, non-solipsistic state of mind. Meanwhile the women would stay back at the camp, engaging in activities where objective thought was less needed.

So I think rational thinking is like humor. Women simply haven't evolved the need for these things so they tend to be worse at them. This of course isn't to say that all women are incapable of them, but like any other trait they come on a bell curve and women tend to be closer to the left side of the bell curve than men in these traits

[–]ArinlyPilsner3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Woman didn't stay back at camp. They gathered and stuff. Men can see moving objects better because of hunting, and women see colors better because of gathering. There are many sex differences due to this early division of labor, but I think that your conjecture is just that.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're nitpicking. Picking berries doesn't require the same cognitive skills as hunting.

[–]ArinlyPilsner3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most gathering was for root vegetables. Also rational minds pay attention to important details. You are being dismissive and have no facts in your argument. Since when were facts considered nitpicking?

[–]through_a_ways-3 points-2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

But I think that many RPers honestly think that women tend to be less capable of objective, rational thought. I'll admit I don't find the idea entirely unconvincing. From an evolutionary perspective

Also from a data-based perspective, men are far more overrepresented among people with high IQs.

If we find that there is a correlation between high IQs and rational thought (evidence needed for this), then there is a good chance of there being a correlation between gender and rational thought, because men are much more likely to have very high IQs (as well as very low IQs).

[–]ArinlyPilsner0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Some men would be more capable, but on average it would be about the same.

[–]through_a_ways-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No it would not, because a high IQ is by definition not an average IQ.

[–]ArinlyPilsner0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

But all the stupid men would bring down the average of the men with high IQs. What are you not getting here? Also, more men have very high or very low IQs than women do, but most men are still average. I don't why this needs to be pointed out all the time. Have you looked at the graph?

[–]through_a_ways0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Read the original comment again if you still don't understand what I'm saying.

[–]ArinlyPilsner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So you are saying that in this scenario that very high IQs would have a correlation with rationality, but that there would be no correlation between the two for IQs in other ranges? As if there were a rationality/IQ threshold that is very high?

[–]DeseretRainFangirl2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I disagree with like 99% of what TRP says- I'm a feminist, and I actually have a social justice blog on Tumblr. The one thing I agree with about RedPill is that I do believe people are attracted to jerks. I do believe that if you're nice, no one will be attracted to you. I just think TRP misses the fact that this is true for everyone, not just one specific gender. Studies have been done showing that disagreeableness positively correlates with sexual success, and that's true across genders.

I could go into some personal stories, about how I used to be really nice to male friends that I liked, how I'd spend hours listening to their problems and drive them around to errands since they didn't have a car and go over and help them move or clean their places or lend them money when they needed it. And all I got during that time was constant rejection. I had one guy literally say he was rejecting me because I was too loyal and he preferred to date a girl with a history of cheating because he said that was "more exciting."

Eventually I just quit ever doing anything nice for guys and ignored them most of the time, and that had an absolutely huge impact on my success in dating.

So I mean, in one way, I can understand how guys get drawn into TRP. If you're nice to people and do nice things for them and show loyalty, nobody is going to be attracted to that. So they find TRP and learn how to act like a jerk to women and they see that it does work, that women will start liking them when they're mean to them and ignore them. And then they just buy into all the rest of it, too. They just miss the fact that this is true for everybody- nobody wants someone who is nice to them, everyone is sexually attracted to jerks.

[–]ArinlyPilsner4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that is true of young people

[–]mitreddit-1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

why is bill clinton so loved if people like jerks?

[–]hyperrrealLoves fun3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I work with someone who's family knows Bill Clinton well enough that he rode in the private family limo with my co-worker at his father's funeral.

Clinton is 'nice' only in the sense that he's charming and incredibly charismatic. The guy is a total shark otherwise. You don't become President of the United States by being nice.

[–]mitreddit-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

being ambitious does not correlate with being selfish. you can be an ambitious tycoon, shark, or an ambitious humanitarian. was ghandi a total shark? not to say clinton might not be a shark, i don't have enough info to know that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

why is bill clinton so loved if people like jerks?

mitreddit: confirmed troll

[–]mitreddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

when my username is mitreddit15, you can accuse me of that.

[–]DeseretRainFangirl0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I honestly can't tell if you're kidding with this comment. Bill Clinton is a womanizing jerk. And everyone knows he's an adulterer. How is cheating on your wife "nice"? Part of my comment was talking about how people find cheaters attractive, because cheating is a jerk thing to do.

[–]mitreddit-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

no one is 100% nice or not nice. he had an affair. i haven't seen evidence that he's a serial cheater. jerks are cold hearted, does he strike you as a cold hearted person?

[–]DeseretRainFangirl2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I actually think he's a literal psychopath, and I believe the woman who accused him of rape.

Plus he admitted to having an adulterous affair with another woman besides Monica Lewinsky, and then another woman said she had an affair with him and apologized to Hillary. Exactly how many times does one have to cheat before they're counted as a serial cheater?

[–]mitreddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well if that's all true, I can't disagree with you.

[–]MagicGainbowKeepin' it real, havin' a feel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He had airforce one give lifts to his bit on the side.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I found a sub called /r/RedPillScience. If it had more neutral titles like PPD, that'd be all I need for my red pill experience.

r/TheRedPill is angry, circlejerky, and not science based. Wow, just like feminism, who'da thunkit?

Being science based is really really important to me. More science reports, more interest in whether the reports actually credible and peer reviewed and everything we've come to like about science and the scientific method.

As far as helping me out for real, PUA advice helps me out for real. Also, the Playboy Advisor - Playboy still keeps it real after all these years would you believe? Red pill advice might help other men, but it sure doesn't help me.

EDIT

Also, the one-trick-fits-all attitude in red pill leaning PUA is wrong.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am a Blue Piller. Anyway, things I don't mind about TRP are that in an ideal world, it would be about self-improvement, and that it would be about questioning the status quo as well as just learning to become your own person. That being said, I do the execution is absolutely terrible and it could use and overhaul if more people want to take it seriously. If we are being honest here, I have way more of a reason than most people to be bitter about how women have treated me and yet, I am fine now, and happier than ever. I never had an anger stage because I found it unnecessary. So while I think TRP could be at least passable if executed properly, I can't take it seriously as long as it attracts individuals that are beyond angry, especially since it shows signs of emotional immaturity.

[–]through_a_ways0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

a) Same with plenty of other subs, probably worse on many.

b) I think that's a dumb calling as well, but at the same time I think there are equally dumb "goals" peddled about on other subs.

c) That's how the world is IRL. Also the very fact that TRP exists is somewhat counter to that.

d) For the purposes of sex/dating/gender issues that's basically a pretty good shorthand.

e) I think this is dumb as well.

My problems with the redpill:

It's solely about sexual strategy, and heavily slanted toward practical application. There's a whole world of redpill out there (redpill health, redpill sociology, redpill politics, redpill media, redpill race, etc.)

I don't believe the moniker of "red pill" deserves to be confined to sex and gender.

[–]crankypants15Purple Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the internet. Which means: they don't matter.

[–]duckducklandwhaleRed [like the Dried Rape Blood On My Sheets]0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually will admit there is too much

1) TRP male chestpuffing against other males. More than anything I think 95% of TRP change is in mental attitude. Though, there are too many bros that remind me of bodybuilding forums just trying to out-alpha the other male dude

2) Some people are a little in too deep. I mean like I said above 95% of it is just a mental change. Though, some people want to apply TRP to everything. I mean it's fine for careers, haggling, dominating a conversation, etc. Though, you have idiots over-debating about simple shit like "holding a door open" or some people claiming this guy "didnt handle" this situation well enough. (AKA throw more alpha into it). While I think again he handle it just perfectly

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes! There is so much peacocking it's unreal. Acting like an alpha douche on the internet never got anyone any pussy

[–]RedRisingHoodBetter red than dead0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The worst is the "EDUCASHUN IS A LIBRUL CONSPIRACY" idiocy I sometimes see. I always assume the guys who say that are rednecks who think that the what we should aspire to be is some kind of Ron Swanson with that kind of ignorant pride

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

I was going to ask a question about lifting.

I do body weight training so I can do things that most lifters cannot do. Pistol squats and one arm push up for examples. Relative to my weight I'm strong and I'm lean and toned, but I don't get big and puffy looking.

This is a much more useful and functional sort of fitness than just growing bigger, which is basically vanity fitness that actually can impede functionality.

IDK, they must find women do respond to big guys, I wouldn't know because I've never gotten big in that way,

edit

I don't believe that sacrificing functionality for female attention would be a good trade off anyhow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a much more useful and functional sort of fitness than just growing bigger, which is basically vanity fitness that actually can impede functionality.

Well, I don't know. I get what you're saying but most guys who lift aren't "just growing bigger." It's hard to get hypertrophy without strength.

I lift as a side component of my main athletic pursuit, so I'm only in the weight room once or twice a week. The high-weight/low-reps thing I focus on is functional in the sense that the increased strength (and somewhat increased size) facilitates direct improvement in my main sport.

Functionality is contextual. A guy trying to lift heavy things is functionally improving if he's getting better at lifting heavy things.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok, well this obviously isn't vanity lifting.

[–]awesomesalsaMr. Ogynist[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

I think they overstate the size issue. I think most women prefer guys with a decent amount of muscle and low body fat, but I think you get rapidly diminishing returns past a certain point (think Ed Norton in AHX) and negative returns not long after. I think many women are intimidated or disgusted by super jacked guys. Men tend to overestimate the amount of muscle women find attractive just like women tend to overestimate the level of thinness that men find attractive.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most men aren't going to get super jacked in the way that bodybuilders on HGH or steroids are super jacked. Most aren't going to be intimidating at all until 5+ years into dedicated lifting.

However:

Men tend to overestimate the amount of muscle women find attractive just like women tend to overestimate the level of thinness that men find attractive.

100% on point.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Go look at ladyboners, you won't find a jacked man there. That's a gay male aesthetic and is male projection

[–]pillburtRed Pill Mana mana2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

won't find a jacked man there. That's a gay male aesthetic and is male projection

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. I think most women prefer a good looking face and at least a fit body, if not with muscles.

But if you have a good face and personality, a little pudge doesn't hurt.

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

What? Gay males generally aren't into huge buff guys either. It's mostly 'regular' masculine guys (jocks) or twinks that are in high demand. Only a small amount of Gay people try to overcompensate by becoming huge.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

LOL fantasy world. Tom of finland captured the gay male aesthetic to perfection. I was a fag hag before all of you were born and managed a gay and lesbian boutique video store with a porn room, please stop lying to me about gay people, I'm not an innocent moron from a corn field

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not. I'm gay myself and am also on contact with many other Gay people in different communities. The huge buff guys are rarely seen as the most attractive (at least for 30- Gay people in my experience). Fit and lean were far more common.

... You'll just accuse me of lying again though. If there is anything you show on this sub, it is a severe kind of fear to accept experiences outside of your belief system to be real. It's as if you feel threatened by it.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frankly, I just started lifting (against my mothers wishes) and it is one of the best things I have ever done for myself. I have a friend who lifts out of vanity and is really proud of the way he looks but says that all that muscle is simply for show and that he is not that strong. I had always thought that growing strength was part of weight lifting.

[–]adrixshadowIndigo Pill(aka dark and evil occult pill)-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The only point I have issue is that woman cannot love a man completely.

I do not necessarily disagree as women do have difficulty with it.

However love transcends animalistic nature so the deep connection should be possible.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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