RP philosophy shouldn't work but it just does, and that's depressing

March 8, 2018
35 upvotes

I am a bit of an outsider here, I really only found this sub-community like 48 hours ago by accident and I did not know there was an official body of knowledge around this. Red Pill approaches seem really cynical, amoral frankly and they shouldn't work but they do and they do so well it's kind of sad. At work/school all of the time, I find myself following the 48 laws of power all of the time and every time I am successful those laws are at the root of it. Advancing in an academic setting really is a bunch of posturing and manipulations as much as it is merit based and I can't lie that I find myself leaning on some of those laws all of the time.

And look when it comes to women or life, the nice guy approach garners you no respect. If you're always available, people take you for granted and walk all over you. When some girl with a boyfriend tries to flirt with me to get me to help her study for an exam, I tell her no and tell her to get her boyfriend to help her instead. I might come across as a dick but hey, at least I have some self-respect. I'm sorry but I'm not going to listen to your boy problems for 5 hours under your pink blanket fort. I don't care. Listening to people's problems is a PROFESSION worth like $100/hr. If I'm not getting that or something equivalent then no I have better things to do with my time. Again this might seem cold, but why should I care? My time and attention is earned the same as anyone's not just automatically given.

At the same time, receiving love or sex isn't automatic and something that men can take for granted either. I've come to accept that no one is going to love me enough to stab someone in the face to protect me just because (my mom really didn't like it when I was almost kidnapped as a child). That kind of loyalty doesn't come automatically and maybe it won't ever be there, but the psychology of that kind of commitment is not easy to achieve. I don't necessarily fully embrace what Red Pill thinks about this topic, but certainly catering to a woman's needs all the time doesn't produce this kind of love if it is indeed possible. I'm not nearly so cynical on women's integrity up to a certain point but that being said no one gets divorced and there are essentially no single mothers where my parents are from so it doesn't really fit the american familial breakdown model RP presents.

The sad part is that the RP approach to women...kind of works. You would think that women are not that dumb, but I've seen women who were incredibly intelligent collapse into classical male-female dynamics in a heartbeat even though they are so different in the workplace. Certainly, I think that women in the workplace is great and I have seen many do quite amazing things, but that is apparently irrelevant. I've seen women, who I respect a lot as colleagues, really fall to pieces if a man they like is ignoring them. And I'm not proud but, every time I blow off a girl a little bit and slowly warm up to her it produces the intended result. I'm not saying that this is the wholly RP approach, but simple manipulations are work sometimes.

And all of this is depressing. The fact that after all of our talk of how evolved we are...we're supposed to be better than this. But we frankly are not. We're just animals. We're not any better than them. We're irrational, we don't live up to the weight of our own lofty ideals, and we're all easily manipulable. RP shouldn't work but I think it's time we all admit that if you really think you're above it...you're a bit naive.

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Post Information
Title RP philosophy shouldn't work but it just does, and that's depressing
Author EscapeTheGoat
Upvotes 35
Comments 228
Date March 8, 2018 9:40 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/rp-philosophy-shouldnt-work-but-it-just-does-and.263333
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/82wblq/rp_philosophy_shouldnt_work_but_it_just_does_and/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (55 children) | Copy Link

It's not depressing unless you are A) overly idealistic or B) suffer from black and white thinking.

I tell you right now OP, if some overweight 4/10 Becky Butterface baked a ton of cookies for you and did your homework and was sweet to you every day, but then Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place." You would pick Stacy.

Humans are not perfect divine beings driven by pure morality, we are meatsacks with mutated overlarge cerebellums. A step above apes. Having said that, even though you and countless other men would fuck an arrogant Stacy over an overweight nice-girl, you'd probably stop and help a fellow human being out if they were trapped in a burning car. You'll probably have kids someday and sacrifice like hell for their welfare.

It's not black and white. Humans are part instinct and primal urges, part reason and kindness. It has to be that way too. Survival of the fittest is brutal but it's how nature and genetics operate. Life cannot be all kindness and magic pussy fairies humping beta male losers out of the goodness of their hearts, or we wind up a race of faggy cherubic Eloi.

[–]Pope_LuciousSeparating the wheat from the hoes9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I tell you right now OP, if some overweight 4/10 Becky Butterface baked a ton of cookies for you and did your homework and was sweet to you every day, but then Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place." You would pick Stacy.

Just fuck both of them

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think that's the most realistic.

Most men would probably fuck both given the chance.

But if either demanded a committed relationship guess who gets dumped?

The fattie.

And that's just how it is.

[–]MickDash1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Sorry you feel that way Stacie, I hope we can at least be friends, call me some time if brad ever gets tired of your shit and you need a rebound fuck when he dumps your annoying ass"

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't. Only Stacy. I'd take the cookies though until she started becoming a headache.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I tell you right now OP, if some overweight 4/10 Becky Butterface baked a ton of cookies for you and did your homework and was sweet to you every day, but then Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place." You would pick Stacy.

And that doesn't make men "bad" or "evil" or "immoral" or "perverted" or "sick".

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪10 points11 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

that doesn't make men "bad" or "evil" or "immoral" or "perverted" or "sick".

but of course women are all of those things for choosing chad

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Who says that? Not me. No, women are not any of those things for choosing Chad.

Men have no problem with women choosing chad. what we have a problem with is women lying about it.

Choosing chad doesn't make them evil. It just makes them liars. But we know this already.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Who says that? Not me

lol ok

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just don't lie about it, and they'll all be fine.

[–]woefulwankPsychology of Romance2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He ain't ever used those words, Pem is very careful with his words - but I guess you mean he's perpetually insinuated they are morally dubious?

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i would have to go back through his post history. youre right he probably hasnt, but his entire tenor has been one of moral outrage over female nature for years, if im wrong, im wrong

[–]woefulwankPsychology of Romance2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

his entire tenor has been one of moral outrage over female nature for years

That's fair.

I don't think you're wrong, just slightly erroneous.

It gets my goat when people paraphrase the shit I've said and warp the context in which it's been said. So naturally I have a stickler for when people embellish someone else's view just for the sake of it. A forum as reliant on nuance and detail as this one, doesn't need anyone's perspective amplified anymore than it is already

[–]the_calibre_cat2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No, they aren't, but nobody is or has argued that. Meanwhile, women have given men shit for chasing sexy women since time fucking immemorial, that's the rub.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So what

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

So it's two-faced bullshit, either women are free to pursue Chad and men are free to pursue Stacy and it doesn't make either of them any shittier, or they're both fuckwads.

It's the former, by the way, turns out people like fucking attractive people and they're allowed to.

[–]MickDash1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

even if the women lie about it they are still moral equivalent?

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, that's specifically what I'm criticizing. I'm saying, "cut it out, you aren't fooling anyone, we know you like Chad, stop giving us shit for digging Stacy". It doesn't bother me that they like Chad, I'm less upset with women liking Chad and more upset that I feel so far away from being Chad - and to a degree it annoys me that I feel like I have to be like that at all (I basically would like to be way more ripped than I am, but I don't really want to be the person that "Chad" in my mind elicits).

Not all women lie about it, just the messaging front of feminism does, though, that's why I really don't think it's fair to blame "women" as a group so much as I think it's fairer to shit on feminism. They're the ones promoting this "body positivity" and "healthy at any size" and "how dare you shallow men not give a fat girl a shot" type bullshit.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men will criticize women for what they do and women will criticize men. Why does each sex have to be "fair" to the other/

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because some of us men take moral offense to these equilibrium shirkers. In fact we think their silence on the matter is golden, and we'll pay gold to get it, or utilize steel & lead to obtain it.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Gross who wants cookies

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's a step up from crack rock i guess.

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 2 points3 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely agree I would definitely pick Stacy. But like wouldn't it be nice if I could genuinely be attracted to Becky tho?

See the thing is with helping a person out of a burning car or protecting your kids, that's human biology taking over again. I feel like we're hard wired to do those things sometimes, they aren't choices.

Like I guess I find it kind of sad that we have remarkably little agency in this scenario. Our agency enables us to come up with creative ways of meeting the same biological goals but doesn't enable us to change the goals. That is kind of sad. We're not masters of our own destiny. Just masters of clever permutations on the path to "biological ascension"

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yup, you are just a small piece of the puzzle. That's just how it is though bro. It was recognized all the way back to ancient times, when men spoke of gods directing the fate of mere mortals. At the same time, why be depressed? Life itself is a gift, you could've been born a fucking slug or bacteria or something.

Even some hypothetical super logical alien species probably has its anhedonic teenagers complaining that they weren't born with the power of gods. The gods complain about not being able to escape into the metaverse. The turtle just beneath the N-1 turtle complains that there's too many turtles standing on him, and so on into infinity. It's complaining turtles all the way down. One can always find something to complain about, or one can choose to see life as a gift.

[–]ffapod 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

How in hell would I be born a slug?

[–]throwaway16430 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Many ways. For example, the arrangement of atoms and molecules that constitute you could have instead constituted a slug.

Many million years ago, some evolutionary common ancestor of all humans could have gone extinct by random chance and replaced by something that gave to slugs instead of humans.

We are all lucky to be here. It's all meaningless luck at the end of the day, so best to appreciate the beauty of reality, be curious and learn about the world, and enjoy the moment everyday before we sleep forever.

[–]ffapod 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Can you show any evidence that physical matter causes phenomenal experiences?

[–]throwaway16430 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Of course, the most obvious and strongest evidence is the direct effect of chemical and physical changes in brain to experiences and behavior. Almost every drug or medicine that alters your mood, feelings and experiences does so via direct interaction of specific structural proteins and drugs (aka physical matter) with receptors.

Second is the example of people with sudden changes such as injuries to specific regions of the brain, who undergo massive changes in behavior, personality, feeling and experiences.

Oliver Sacks excellent book, 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat's and VS Ramachandran's 'Phantoms in the Brain' have plenty of great examples.

For example, the book has the case of a man who thought his parents were imposters when he saw them, but not when he spoke to them over the phone. Because a certain neural pathway that linked visual feedback with emotional response was damaged (but the auditory response was fine). It's a great book full of such examples

In any case the scientific evidence is pretty clear there's nothing magical or supernatural about "phenomenal experiences". It's all just neurochemical interactions of atoms in the brain obeying the laws of physics at the end of the day.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely agree I would definitely pick Stacy. But like wouldn't it be nice if I could genuinely be attracted to Becky tho?

Do you mean sexually attracted? Wouldn't most men have sex with Becky if Stacy were not already available?

[–]mwait2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Just a heads up, but plenty of dudes don't fuck fat chicks. Or ugly chicks.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But plenty do, and more dudes are willing to dip into that pool of women than women who are willing to do dip into that pool of men. And then women lecture men for "being shallow," some good shit right there.

[–]Naebany0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think a lot of depends on situation. When hit with a dry spell and quite drunk I think many guys would fuck a girl they are normally not really interested in.

[–]mwait0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this sentiment... but IMO, there is a big difference between a girl I am not really interested in and 4/10 fat Becky Butterface.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't date and sleep with women who I'm not physically attracted to, myself, but I thought I was unusual that I'd rather be celibate than have sex with less attractive women. The narrative when most men on here talk always seems to be that men would settle for sex with less attractive women, but that they aren't even getting those women because those women are having casual sex with Chads and trying to lock down relationships with them.

[–]mwait0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My issue is distinguishing what "less attractive" actually means. I admit that I have certainly had sex with women who I had no intention of truly dating, for whatever reason... But I've never actually slept with a woman that I found truly unattractive. Nor have I been with any fat girls. But Ive definitely had sex with girls that were less attractive than what I would ideally want.

I guess I'm just trying to point out that when a guy can't find a HB9 smokeshow, it doesn't necessarily mean he is going to settle for fat ass 4/10 Becky. It might be the 6.5 who is pretty cute but her skin's not so great, etc.

[–]concacanca1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

An overweight butter face?

Depends how desperate/drunk he is. Not sure that many men really want to go dumpster diving, though most I know have done under the right conditions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A butterface means everything is good "but her face."

[–]Lightningy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then that pussy is getting destroyed.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I dunno about "most," but I bet Becky has more realistic sexual options than the average man.

[–]DaphneDK42King of LBFM2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

overly idealistic

I think human nature can have a beauty of its own even. If you choose to look for it. The way it is Darwinistic optimised. You don't look at a lion and think: poor zebras. You admire it for being a super efficient hunting machine. Human can be admired in the same way.

[–]S1imdragxn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I already see it that way without Darwinism

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A step above apes.

Good God. This really puts it into perspective.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

if some overweight 4/10 Becky Butterface baked a ton of cookies for you

Ouch. I was planning on doing that for my boyfriend when he flew into visit me.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that most men like it when women do some cooking or baking for them. But if he's not already attracted to her that's not going to make him more attracted. In your case from what you've posted it sounds like he is already attracted so being able to bake and cook is a plus.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why ouch? Don't let some posts on the internet stop you from being you friend.

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should do that if it's for your boyfriend. That's solid decision making. But like if you did that for someone you weren't dating then....well it wouldn't alone really earn you their affections necessarily would it?

[–]PIBagent1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

if some overweight 4/10 Becky Butterface baked a ton of cookies for you and did your homework and was sweet to you every day, but then Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place." You would pick Stacy.

I'd honestly be suspicious of Stacy's intentions since its out of the ordinary. If I had assurance that she wasn't setting me up to get my organs harvested then you might be right.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

but then Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place.

This only happens with hookers.

[–]bonusfruit2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Terrible analogy that doesn't illustrate rp philosophy. Most guys will fuck both becky and Stacy if they could, not choose. Men are not selective, they are aggressive. Women are selective. Rp for women is makeup, high heels, yoga pants. It's learned on the fly from their tweens onward. They are not lied to about what attracts men only to be awoken in their late 20s and flooded with feelings of frustration and cynicism like men on reddit

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry but i don't buy into those "i was lied to" narratives, any more than i buy some chick crying "society told me" she couldn't do STEM.

The buck stops with you as far as your own beliefs boyo. It was your job to investigate reality and sort through the bullshit. If you failed, you failed - no shame in it, but blaming everyone but yourself is just dodging responsibility.

[–]mistercheeez-o____O-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stacy Sexpot walked up and said "sup fuckboy, let's go back to my place." You would pick Stacy.

I have a short fuse so I may go home with her.... but I'd be tearin her a new one the whole way. lol

[–]ReluctantSlimeball0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I cannot for the life of understand why anyone with an enquiring mind would not at least “occasionally” find the nature of being depressing?

It absolutely is depressing. Bad people winning/good people losing is depressing to anyone with the ability to concentrate.

We rise above it but claiming it’s only depressing to the fringes is just wrong.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

magic pussy fairy's

That last line made me chuckle.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community28 points29 points  (50 children) | Copy Link

There was a poster on RP once who mentioned that 99% of the time he was happy with RP, but the other 1% he wondered why it had to be this way. Why couldn't women just be okay with nice?

The more of an arrogant douchebag he became the more sex he got. A friend of mine mentioned the same thing. In his youth he tried the nice guy approach and then being a dick. He got laid more when he was a dick than when he was nice. Drug lords have girlfriends and wives, murderers get love letters in prison and assholes keep pumping and dumping away.

When I lost weight and developed a dgaf attitude, women showed more interest. It's just how it is. We can moralise and complain, but until most women get wet at the thought of a nice guy, you have to be somewhat of a dick to not become unfuckable.

[–]vandaalenRed Pill EC13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

There was a poster on RP once who mentioned that 99% of the time he was happy with RP, but the other 1% he wondered why it had to be this way. Why couldn't women just be okay with nice?

Yep. Can confirm. It's absolutely depressing every once in a while.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's depressing because we were raised to be nice guys, not good men. I blame my parents, father in particular. I never had a good role model.

[–]woefulwankPsychology of Romance5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I blame my parents, father in particular.

The shit dads who left didn't do any wonders for young boys either.

[–]EminemLovesGrapesSpongebob5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. No dad, I had figure all of shit out for myself. What women told me was the same shit normal guys get told.

"Be nice, treat her like a princess, you have high standards". When saying I wouldn't date fat chicks or single moms.

But thats all nice guy behaviour. And that gets you nowhere.

I'm partly happy though because if my dad was still around, I undoubtedly would be full on neckbeard nice guy.

And If I ever do have kids I'll be the best role model/father to them because I never had.

[–]concacanca3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, I can understand why you are all about plates. It was rather unpleasant to realise that my wife, the woman, was nothing special and is only into me because I'd shown the right mix of alpha and beta traits by accident - and now I have a lifetime of consciously trying to balance those to look forward to.

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd shown the right mix of alpha and beta traits by accident - and now I have a lifetime of consciously trying to balance those to look forward to.

Only if you want to be happy. You could always slump into standard low-grade apathy and resentment like 90% of married couples out there.

[–]bcdude20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it more depressing than not getting laid? But you guys are kidding yourself, you can get laid with "Blue Pill" shit too. Just own whatever you wanna be.

And it doesn't have to be that way. The term "nice guys" and being nice are not one in the same. I know a dude who is super nice to everyone, including to dudes. I always joke with him about if he has a calendar set up for the therapy sessions chicks are always coming to him for. And chicks are always trying to jump his bones, some going as far as asking me if he's fucking one of the other chicks who always go to him for their problems.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk, it isn't once it resonates with you. It feels like the literal matrix the truth is unpalatable. But it makes sense. It just makes that rearview that much more nostalgically tragic to glance back to.

[–]storffish7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

this is a lot of words to say you stopped being a pussybegging fatass. that's not something you should have needed some internet community to tell you unless you were well and truly sheltered and lacked any kind of social intuition.

being an "arrogant douchebag" will ultimately backfire socially unless your definition of douche is a guy who doesn't desperately cling to every chick who gives him the time of day (surprisingly common on reddit.)

don't be fat. don't project desperation, let them come to you. that's like navigating-social-situations-101.

[–]BirdManBrrrr8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Despite your assertion otherwise, it's not that obvious.

It takes a hard kick in the nuts for someone to realize they need to decondition decades of Nice Guy behavior.

[–]storffish3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

this must be a white person thing. it was abundantly obvious to me growing up that I shouldn't be a hanger-on or beg women for affection.

[–]Freethetreees8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is what I've been saying for a while. White millennial males are way more socially stunted than any other race, probably because of the way white baby boomers raised them. They were sheltered and isolated by their parents, instead of being allowed to bike or walk across town to pick up a game of basketball with kids they've never met before. They think screaming "your mom" jokes at a stranger in COD is the same thing as real social interaction and then wonder why they struggle with interpersonal skills and understanding social ques.

[–]SadDoggo452 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much this. I was raised in a conservative Christian family, sex was a taboo topic - I never had birds and bees talk. My mother wears the pants in the family. This and some other factors add up over time.

[–]BirdManBrrrr3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Definitely is a white people problem. Plenty of stable families with extremely weak fathers that deferred to their wives for everything; thus the women raised the kids and emasculated the husbands.

[–]storffish2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

my father was so weak he bailed on his family when I was quite young, and I was not unique among my friends growing up. single mothers and absent/addict/drunk fathers were, sadly, pretty much the norm. I think it's more of a cultural phenomenon than something that happens entirely within families, though that could also be part of it

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The person you're shaming doesn't fucking exist. There are men who cat themselves with a don't give a fuck attitude, are playful and tease women and violate their bubble, and they get laid.

And then there are men like me, who followed the instructions of the endless bitching of feminists (it has since gotten worse, now feminists have targeted the most ruthless of their enemies, the radical imams fundamentalist theocrats people who play video games and work in I.T.) and genuinely tried to be decent, considerate human beings.

Turns out that's not what they're after at all, and probably every man's life experiences reflect this. I have had far more success acting weirdly out of character, being brash, forward, and suggestive, than I have "being myself."

It is genuinely difficult for me to do this, because for years I lapped up that feminist trash, that "being forward and suggestive is only valuing women for sex and therefore sexist" or that "being brash is typical male macho behavior and women see right through that and it is also probably sexist because reasons," etc.

There are guys who are just nice because that's what they were told to be and that's how they were raised, and not your bullshit Nice Guys™ stereotype, and women do not go for them. They're probably boned, it's pretty hard to undo decades of upbringing once you realize it's bullshit, but the least we can do is doing the alarm for men that aren't so far gone.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bruh, why you putting my life story out in public like this?

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’ve found that this is true for “good girls” also. Men don’t really want that. Good girls get exploited. They want arrogant bitches. Why? Because bitches are interesting and lead fascinating lives.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I did this stuff well before I stumbled across RP. But the key was my attitude. When I was fatter I still had girlfriends but they wouldn't stay for long.

Losing weight increased the quality of women, yes, but they stuck around a lot more because of my attitude. I never thought I would get married because 'why don't women appreciate nice guys like me?' But due to consistent poor advice and role models, I didn't know that when women complain about dicks, they are getting fucked by those dicks.

They don't care about nice overall. I picked up some weight later on, still managed to snag a wife who is dedicated AF to me. I had to learn to not be what women are but to be what women want. Women these days make the same mistake by being too masculine then wondering why men don't want to stick around. If you leave no place for them, they do leave.

[–]storffish2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

...so you became a mean person? you don't sound mean or cruel to me. I think you're using words like asshole and douche to mean independent and not supplicating or projecting of desperation, lots of redpillers do. but that doesn't mean you're not nice. you can be nice without throwing yourself at women's feet. they don't like that, nobody likes that. if a woman did that I'd call her clingy and ghost her after fucking.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had to be meaner, not cruel. It's about degrees and perspective. To a nice guy, even saying no to your girlfriend is perhaps meaner. But what I really mean is that, as an orbiter, you'd hear a woman complain about how her boyfriend is emotionally unavailable and why can she not have a nice guy like you etc. Yet she returns to the asshole when perhaps he just wasn't okay with putting up with her shit. You have to learn to have boundaries with women or else they will walk all over you. They don't understand decency in that regard so when you say no, in whatever way you do it, they will complain.

The betas hear it, tell her they would put up with her shit (why else would you complain if not to highlight a problem?), yet she returns to the douchebag. It gets to the point where you can sometimes even tell women off and they find you more appealing. It makes no sense. Why be with someone who makes you angry or sad? Women also tend to desire men who are taken. A man with a ring on his finger is more attractive to women because of preselection. Why would you want a taken man when there are available ones? To me that makes sense. To women, their tingles are too important to ignore.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women these days make the same mistake by being too masculine then wondering why men don't want to stick around. If you leave no place for them, they do leave.

It’s hard to trust that men will actually step up and be men if you leave a void for them. I’ve found that they often don’t and it’s better to be self sufficient. Or if you are too feminine, they are drawn to exploit you, because masculine men are compelled to exploit feminity as we currently define it.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this5 points6 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

When I lost weight

I think that might be the biggest piece of the puzzle here...

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I know plenty of skinny in shape nice guys who get no pussy or love.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

And there's literally nothing else wrong with them?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sometimes yes.

A fat guy with tight Game does better than a skinny in shape niceguy with no Game.

[–]the_calibre_cat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not even sometimes, dude. Most guys have a hard time getting a relationship - as an in shape guy, women just don't see that. The only thing "skinny" or "in shape" does for a guy is... not immediately disqualify him.

[–]jax006Red Pill Gives You Wings1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, having game is more important than looks ime

[–]RepresentativeData0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hello, me here. Plz help.

[–]VoidInvincibleFull Measure1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've always been skinny and in good shape, just not muscular, and unlike for men, apparently being in good health isn't enough for most women...you have to be somewhat of a bad boy too.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community2 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

Not quite.

I was a bit of a doormat before. Even good looking, slender guys can dry up pussy if they are pushovers. Losing the weight helped but I have seen overweight douchebags with hot girlfriends because they were assholes.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Because there's no middle ground between being a pushover and being an asshole? You can stand up for yourself and not treat other people like shit.

[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq.4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people here seem to act like it’s only either/or. I think it’s because they like to push the rhetoric that somehow women are flawed because women only like guys who treat them like shit. It’s like a way to justify that behavior or something.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

because the rewards that come with being an asshole keep getting better and better the more assholish you get. i've tried to find the limit where girls stop being more attracted and stop acting like they enjoy self-centered assholish behavior, but there's not one. my personal limit is that i don't want to be abusive.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

i've tried to find the limit where girls stop being more attracted and stop acting like they enjoy self-centered assholish behavior

And are you 100% sure you aren't attracting women with self-esteem issues?

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think pretty much everyone, male or female, in modern western society has some kind of self-esteem issues.

probably need to clarify that being a 100% supreme asshole 24/7 increases attraction but it is NOT going to lead to 24/7 happy, friendly positive interactions. a woman can be very attracted to you but also still slap you, cuss you out, scream at you, and all that.

but I do understand what you're saying, and different women will have different levels of assholish behavior that they want to tolerate. if you push it past that limit you can create cognitive dissonance and internal conflict where on one level she really doesn't want to put up with any more of your asshole bullshit, but on a different level she is attracted and drawn to it. and i personally consider that the point where it can start to be psychologically abusive depending on the context. some women think off color jokes are too much, other women are extremely submissive and enjoy when a man gets physically rough.

there's another issue in that a lot of guys are bad at assholish behavior. when they reach that point where they get slapped or cussed out, they over-react too far in the wrong direction. they start apologizing and DEERing and "i was just joking" which just makes the situation worse. by going hard anti-asshole, it eliminates the attraction she might have been feeling and suddenly he is way over the line. when you go too far it's better to just stop and be neutral and give her a minute to cool down without killing the attraction completely.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is what I was saying. Women are fine with narcissism in men. They fuck the shit out of narcissists. A nicer guy isn't going to look at all the ass he is getting as bas because she has self esteem issues. He also desires sex.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, I’ll tolerate some assholish behavior upfront because I know it’s an armor that men need to wear to find success in the world. I’m a mentally strong woman, and I can appreciate a mentally strong man, because it means I don’t always have to be. However, my relationships usually get explosive (and not in a good way) if he doesn’t knock that shit off. I actually want to be treated nicely, and expect you to leave that asshole shit at the door. And to be blunt, my tolerance of that behavior after the first two months is low. If i’ve had to curse you out for going too far and being too selfish, it’s fucking over. I’m not riding that crazy train; I’m not a woman who needs constant drama to feel alive and actually just find it extremely draining.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Very, very, very few people are out and out assholes, especially among men.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, then why are we calling them assholes?

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What is an honest to goodness, extant Asshole™ actually like? I mean an asshole, not ordinary-ass fuckers who think it's just zany to be all, "I'm such an asshole!" when the worst thing they've done in the last three months is parked on the line.

The reality is, the people who I would mostly describe as assholes are honestly few and far between, and either teeter precariously close to or fall entirely across the line of being a criminal. THOSE are assholes. In rarer cases still, you have men who are big and intimidating, and KNOW they are big and intimidating, and who use their size and presence to push other people around.

I can't actually say that women are put off, generally, in almost anyof these cases, and they may actually be attracted to it. Nice guys who pay their taxes and haven't fucked up other people's lives or property in some way are just sooo boring, right?

[–]auto-xkcd370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ordinary ass-fuckers


Bleep-bloop, I'm a bot. This comment was inspired by xkcd#37

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

As I pointed out to others, it's relative. You don't have to abuse someone, sure. But when the girlfriend is demanding attention and you have other shit to do, telling her to leave you alone somehow works better than 'but sweety, I have things I want to do now. Please let me finish this.' The first is taking charge, the second is asking for permission. One is more douchey than the other. The douchey one tended to work more.

I have also seen some assholes, burnouts and drug addicts get hot girls into bed. One guy had a mental illness and was making out with a woman whose name her barely knew. Dude racked up an impressive N count but boy was he fucked up. His relationships lasted a few days only. That's extreme, sure, but for a man seeking women's attention, they are not going to be arguing about the middle ground when women are throwing themselves at Mr Mental McCasington.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

But when the girlfriend is demanding attention and you have other shit to do, telling her to leave you alone somehow works better than 'but sweety, I have things I want to do now. Please let me finish this.'

And that's not being an asshole, that's just standing up for yourself. Unless you take it to the extreme of "fuck off bitch, I'm busy". This is my point though. There's a distinction between not being a pushover and being an asshole.

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

And that's not being an asshole, that's just standing up for yourself.

Another difference in social interpretations between men and women. As a man, I would take that as asshole behavior and look for or demand reciprocal treatment. If you tell me I'm not important because you have "better shit to do," then when some shit I care about and you don't drops, expect the same treatment.

[–]RockinSocksII25F poiple INTP - Not single, Eastuss needs to know this0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you tell me I'm not important because you have "better shit to do," then when some shit I care about and you don't drops, expect the same treatment.

So you expect your SO to drop whatever their doing at all times to cater to you?

[–]Dweller_of_the_Abyss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not all the time, but some of it. I would do the same as well. The problem is when I'm willing to sacrifice for her, and she takes offense that she should do the same for me.

[–]dylang92Clear Pill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

See, I think women are fine with nice... but you have to be attractive. Same thing, you can be a dick, but you have to be attractive to her. Being a dick won't make her attracted to you, there has to be something else. Many women when they have someone they drool over gloat all the time how their bf buys them flowers and gifts, but the guy is usually always attractive. If an ugly dude is a dick, the girl is not gonna want to fuck him. I had a friend who tried this approach, he was ugly, and I've watched him get turned down hard.

Even you say you lost weight and developed the attitude. Whether or not you developed the attitude wouldn't change, you could also be a nice dude still, but what really changed is that you became sexually attractive to a wider range of women.

It's really simple:

Rule 1: Be Attractive Rule 2: Don't be unattractive.

[–]the_calibre_cat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think "nice" is actually generally less attractive than "a bit of a dick" to women.

[–]dylang92Clear Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends what you mean by nice. If being nice to you is being spineless, then yes that is unattractive. But if it's just being all around nice, while being confident and dominate, then that isn't attractive.

[–]InternationalProfile11 points12 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

You can employ red pill ideas and live a completely honest and moral life. What's depressing about that?

  • What's amoral or dishonest about getting in great shape?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about touching up your wardrobe and grooming?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about making it clear that you want sex early on in a relationship?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about dismissing petty complaints as petty?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about learning how to take women on engaging dates?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about initiating sex, and backing off if she says no?
  • What's amoral or dishonest about learning the value of not coming on too strong?

This stuff is no different from learning how to succeed at work (or in academia, in your case). You can use this knowledge to be an asshole, sure, but using this knowledge does not by default make one an asshole. Discovering that you can learn how to give people what they want, and in the process obtain what you want, should in no way be depressing.

[–]Falchion12959 points10 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

None of those things are really red pill ideas. Yeah, TRP preaches them, but that's like saying "Don't murder your neighbour" is a Christian idea.

Practically everything you mention is present in one form or another in tons of self-improvement/dating advice.

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Practically everything you mention is present in one form or another in tons of self-improvement/dating advice.

TRP is standard dating advice plus tips and reasons for never committing and a MASSIVE dose of cynicism.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

where is this "standard dating advice" other than at TRP/manosphere? People keep saying it's everywhere. I've looked for it. It's not there.

[–]concacanca2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOLOLOLOL

I expect better from GQ. Or maybe not.

1) Don't forget your manners (be nice nice nice)

2) Be confident (without ever explaining HOW to be confident or what that looks like). That's my biggest beef with people who tell men to "just be confident". how the fuck is a 13 year old boy supposed to "just be confident"? How the fuck is an inexperienced 20 year old college guy supposed to "just be confident" without someone showing him what that looks like and HOW TO DO THAT?)

3) Keep it casual (OK, then what?)

4) Be prepared (goddamn it, it's girls, not a Boy Scout campout. And no, it's not a time to show a girl what I'm made of, it's a time to get to know a girl and find out if she's worth getting to know more of.)

5) Get a second opinion (what? I'm supposed to have someone else check out my clothes? "Does this shirt make my gut look big?" It's a date, not a medical consultation.)

6) Eyes in front (ok, not bad. I'll do that when she stops fingerfucking her phone.)

7) Offer to pay (nope. Dutch. Not unless she's going home with me, and not on a first date.)

[–]InternationalProfile1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

that's like saying "Don't murder your neighbour" is a Christian idea.

So your argument is that the 10 Commandments don't qualify as "Christian ideas," just because they also appear outside of Christian canon? Makes perfect sense.

[–]Falchion12952 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The 10 commandments is a christian thing. What the commandments actually say isn't christian. If I go about my day not cheating on my gf and not murdering people, does that mean I'm practicing christianity? I don't think so.

[–]InternationalProfile1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If I go about my day not cheating on my gf and not murdering people, does that mean I'm practicing christianity?

You may not consider yourself a christian, but anyone familiar with christian doctrine would agree that in those parts of your life you're acting christian. It's like not ever eating meat by happenstance, and then insisting that you're not a vegetarian. Sure, you might not personally label yourself one, but you're living just like one.

What's the point here, anyway? No one on TRP claims their ideas are new, or that their ideas are available on TRP and TRP only. The claim is that TRP offers the most concise collection of relevant ideas, and does the most effective job of stripping away bullshit mixed messages. If I write a medical textbook and you say the germ theory of disease isn't my idea... uh, who cares? I'm not claiming everything in that book is a unique product of my mind. I'm claiming that my book is a great resource for people who want to learn about medicine.

[–]Falchion12950 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

The point of is when arguing the effectiveness and merit of TRP. Too often do people use the "common sense/found everywhere" parts to justify that TRP has merit and then use that to legitimize the other parts of TRP. In the end, the defining characteristics of a movement/idea is what sets is apart from other ideas. For TRP that means the sexist and bad ideas is what defines it. Therefore, I think its important that we don't give TRP merit because it happens to include some good advice thats found in a milliom other places.

[–]InternationalProfile0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

In the end, the defining characteristics of a movement/idea is what sets is apart from other ideas.

OK, what sets a quality medical textbook apart from other ideas? There's usually no idea in that book that's completely unique. What's important is clear, detailed (but manageable) presentation that strips away anything confusing or unnecessary.

For TRP that means the sexist and bad ideas is what defines it.

If you write off any organization based on its worst parts, you're not going to have a lot to choose from. There are assholes everywhere.

[–]Falchion12950 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

If the worst parts of an orginazation are its unique and defining parts, what does that say about an organization? In your medical textbook analogy: how good is a textbook that is 70% already known (but correct) information and 30% wrong instructions on how to perform a surgery?

[–]InternationalProfile0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What "wrong instructions" does TRP include? You may personally find sexism morally objectionable, but nothing about sexism inherently makes it harder to sleep with women (and plenty of guys will tell you sexism makes it easier).

A more appropriate analogy would be a useful textbook that also includes some political views you personally disagree with. These views don't interfere with you practicing medicine, and they may even help you advance your medical career. You can take it or leave it.

[–]Falchion12950 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What "wrong instructions" does TRP include?

Pretty much everything related to "objective" perception of peoples behavior and pretty much everything on long-term relationships.

political views you personally disagree with

Facts aren't something you can agree or disagree with. Lots of TRP is just wrong, incredibly bad statistics and a heap of confirmation bias. I mean you're welcome to base your worldview on things you would like to be true, but that doesn't mean your worldview has any merit.

[–]newName543456went volcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So?

[–]gabriotDidn't know it was purge week0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You're being pretty picky and choosy there and not really getting to the crux of the matter.

You can be in great shape, dress well, show intent (not really RP), not complain, be the dancing monkey that plans all the dates and does all the work (also not really RP), initiate sex, and not come on too strong, you can do all these things and pretty much won't get very far with women. You won't. All of the above is the nice and flowery aspects of self improvement that somehow get lumped in with RP, but the real RP ideas that ACTUALLY build attraction and get you laid are more along the lines of:

-Showing abundance, aka showing you have other options and will go to them if she isn't satisfying you

-Building anxiety or "dread" in her by doing things such as ignoring her

etc. etc. you get the picture. Things that honestly are just downright shitty and against what a genuinely "nice" guy's nature would have him do. But guess what? If he doesn't, he loses. Far more than anything "nice" you listed off the "shitty" aspects of RP are what actually produce results.

[–]InternationalProfile0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

not really RP

also not really RP

Those things are absolutely, unquestionably a part of TRP. They are not unique to TRP and nowhere else, but A) that's not a prerequisite for including something under the TRP umbrella and B) no one on TRP is claiming that, anyway. All that's required to include an idea under the TRP banner is for TRP to strongly emphasize it.

Say you put together a diet and exercise plan that includes running two miles each day. Running two miles each day is absolutely, unquestionably a part of your exercise plan, even if you didn't personally invent the concept.

Things that honestly are just downright shitty

What on earth is shitty about having an abundance of options? If I look at the menu of a restaurant and decide to go elsewhere, am I a shitty person? If someone isn't very nice to me and I decide to hang out with other people, am I a shitty person?

Building anxiety or "dread" in her by doing things such as ignoring her

Dread game is for existing relationships that are headed for trouble, and is optional. It's completely unnecessary for attracting women, isn't required to keep a relationship, and isn't even required if your relationship is going south.

[–]gabriotDidn't know it was purge week0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What on earth is shitty about having an abundance of options?

Why do you phrase it like it is some inconceivable notion that it might be viewed of as shitty to purposely show a person you have other people you are pursuing? I sure as fuck don't like that feeling when other women I'm dating do it to me. Aren't you aware of the golden rule? Face it, it's not really a "good" thing to do, women aren't ecstatic when they get jealous about a guy they like / are dating starts flirting with another girl. But that is pretty much grade A red pill theory right there, it isn't "good" but it's what "works". And by the way doing something like that is just far more effective than any of those "nicer" things like self improvement can do for you. That's the point I'm making and the point that the OP was making, and I feel you are purposely just trying to sidestep it and make it sound better than it really is.

[–]InternationalProfile-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you phrase it like it is some inconceivable notion that it might be viewed of as shitty to purposely show a person you have other people you are pursuing?

Because it is an inconceivable notion in every other setting - see my examples about restaurants and friends. Only here, where it's acceptable to oppose every single red pill idea regardless of how middle of the fairway it is, is stating an obvious fact characterized as some horrible form of abuse.

[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, there's a certain part of redpill ideals that conflict with the normal behavior patterns/culture/social expectations of society. Tensions are rising between old friends & I because I'm considered uncouth for refusing to go the standard path. & I surely don't give a Fuck.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

My take on this is a bit different, because I too felt the same way as you before but I came to a few conclusions.

  1. If an overweight woman is forced to see the world from a different perspective because of not having the world handed to her she is a keeper, reason? Weight is something that could change within a year and that goes both ways, you shouldn't base attraction on this solely.
  2. If a girl has good religious values, like not "I go to church" but legit I'm a STRONG woman of my religion (whatever that might be) then pick that one. Because she isn't just following whatever cosmo, or her girlfriends or someone might say she has some backbone somewhere that gives her another viewpoint.

  3. Realize that it's okay for some of these tactics to work on the above women I listed but realize it's not about using these tactics for sex, it's about finding a woman that its WORTH using any attraction based tactics for. For example. A woman's fatal flaw is that her attraction can be hard to get right? So use these to get the initial attraction train moving and then you can dial it back over time, while still being the leader and rock she needs you to be. But if you find yourself constantly being challenged and needing to stay at 100 at all times or she will leave you, then dude you made the wrong choice.

[–]crumblesnatch<>-<>-<>2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If a girl has good religious values

I would strike that and just say, "good values." Religion used to be a reliable indicator of this, but not so much anymore. Honestly, I think a better indicator would be: are her parents happily married? I would never marry a man with divorced parents, and I think it's wise to avoid women with divorced parents as well. (Not saying children of divorced couples can't be good marriage picks, just that they're making it up as they go rather than modelling good behaviour from the get-go.)

My parents are atheists, and I was raised atheist. But anyone looking at my parents' marriage (or mine, or my grandparents', or most of my aunts/uncles') would assume we were hardcore Christians, because: no drinking, no cussing, modest dress, traditional gender roles, emphasis on serving family/community/mankind through deeds. People often apologize to me for saying something irreverent, and are really surprised when they discover I'm not religious.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think our parents are not a good indicator for anything. People can choose to be everything their parents are within reason. Of course I had the parent who was extremely opposite of her parents but that ended up being a bad idea as well, mixed with some BPD, as well as sometimes falling back to her parents views on things made for an interesting childhood.

[–]crumblesnatch<>-<>-<>0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So... mental illness and incompatible upbringings. How does that affect my point?

[–]AFuzzyMuffin1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You said that parents are a good indicator of how to judge relationships, and people. I was stating that, looking at someone's parents is not a great idea ever, you can compare and contrast and see if the apple is not far from the tree but you should never just make a blanket judgement based off of that.

[–]crumblesnatch<>-<>-<>1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fair. If you like her mother, and she is a lot like her mother, that's a good sign. If she is very unlike her mother, it would not be a reliable heuristic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me the biggest red flags in women is if they use makeup, own a smartphone and have an account in facebook/instagram/tinder. No, i'm not single.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a good interpretation and I agree absolutely. RP isn't meant (in my opinion) to be used all the time, but only in the initial phase of the pickup. If you have to use RP methods even after you are in a relationship with a woman and she still feels like she isn't getting "enough", then sorry, bro. It is better to eject because that will never stop. She will never appreciate you for who you are but will always wish you to become this perfect man she has in her mind.

[–]ABC_FloridaRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like your approach.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think /u/LewisCross nailed it below -- there are male and female versions of these strategies that people can employ if they choose.

Or you can just, y'know, be yourself.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Just be yourself is stupid and bad. It's why a bunch of guys think the anime approach works.

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ehh, it depends. If "yourself" is halfway decent, you'll probably do OK. And it's certainly more sustainable than trying to maintain some kind of facade indefinitely. I can't see that being very successful unless you're a good actor!

[–]AFuzzyMuffin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can agree with that to a degree still I think of it in league terms.

Most people are sliver/bronze when it comes to this stuff. Some women have a certain threshhold of where they fall and in order to swoon them you need to be there. Most women since their value is front loaded with younger age can be plat or diamond and it's a man's job to reach that tier via improving themselves. Too low and you are a burden for the woman to risk dating you too high and you are too intimidating think johnny Depp vs random college girl. The point is to be within relative range via self improvement.

Demonstrate drive, leadership, and other strong qualities the women may require to succeed with her.

Oh and for refrences tiers are. Bronze, silver, gold, plat, diamond, master, challenger, pro.

Anyone can reach master at least. Challenger is slightly harder and pro is famous model/moviestar.

I know this sounds weeb but the model works lol.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

for a lot of guys "being themselves" is not anywhere close to halfway decent.

what you're talking about is the difference between PUA and TRP.

PUA is based on superficially mimicking a high-SMV, sexually successful alpha male. for some guys, that works well. and the more they do it and the better they get at internalizing the right attitude, the truer it gets. fake it til you make it. it's like when you hear about a method actor who stays in character even when they're off set.

but you're right and there are a LOT of guys who can't act. PUA doesn't work for them. they are the stereotypical creepy pickup guys who awkwardly try to use pickup lines and memorized scripts.

TRP developed because it's easier and more effective to teach guys how to truly become high-SMV sexually successful alphas than it is to teach them how to be good actors.

unlike PUA which starts on the outside and works inwardly, TRP focuses on truly internalizing the alpha mindset and attitude and then acting naturally.

[–]washington_breadstixM'gtow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the behavior is only a façade for a little while. After enough success, you'll truly be confident and know what you're doing around women. You won't have to fake anything.

[–]Sub_Corrector_Bot0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You may have meant /u/LewisCross instead of /U/LewisCross.


Remember, OP may have ninja-edited. I correct subreddit and user links with a capital R or U, which are usually unusable.

-Srikar

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I fixed that. Thanks, Bot!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

RP originated by observing what women do instead of what they say. Many men, even those who think they "cracked the code" still fall victims to lifelong indoctrination in the idea that women are wonderful and you should respect them just because.

I am not surprised RP works but I was when I first found out about it, when I was 22-23 years old and started to watch that bs show Pickup Artist with Mystery. And despite it having some cringey moment, there were tons of useful advice. Then I dig a bit deeper and found RP and learned even more about the was that I was fooled my entire life.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you think it's amoral to use redpill tactics to swoon a female who previously rejetted you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think it's stupid and spineless move, unless you want to just get into her pants and leave her. Not immoral at all, otherwise one could conclude that smiling is immoral because you manipulate people into thinking you are nice person even if you aren't. But smiling is good for everybody.

So I while I do not support such idea by trying to step into same river two times, if you want to do, just do it. Personally I had this one female acquintance who rejected me many years ago and later found out she broke up with her LTR bf and currently is single. I could have tried again, just that it would not have been the same, she rejected my good side (when I was nice beta chump) and now she could get my everything.. but for what, if I do not desire her anymore? She was a 6/10 anyway, and my standards now are only women 8/10 and above.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But what defines that rating for you? For me it's a woman who believes in marriage, religion, and that challenges me to be better than I currently am. I also am not an avid fan of make up 24/7 I believe in more of the fresh eyes approach. If you have seen the song you get what I mean.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But what defines that rating for you?

Nothing, it's entirely subjective, based on woman's looks. Even if rating was 1 or 0 (fuck or no fuck), it would still be subjective. So I use it only if I want to give a person a general idea of my priorities in dating and what kind of women I try to seduce. I do not spit on uglier women, I would consider her for sure if she had most or all non-physical qualities that I am looking for. I can settle for her looks, but that's unlikely to happen. I noticed, that girls in 5/10-7/10 range are bitchiest and most entitled.

Now after I said that, most PPD women would say "oh you are ugly yourself, why would attractive woman want to be with you, you hypocrite!". But that's because it's very likely she's got nothing else going for her apart from her good looks. Will she provide for me, clean my house, be always happy etc. around me? No? Then that makes me somebody, who should be "offended" since if they demand me to bring all the stuff that men bring to the table and then also bring good looks, what do women offer for me? That's the question for a million. I am handsome, just not very good looking. More like a groomed up average guy.

So I have to take all of it as a collateral for her lack of good traits in other departments. And still I would not marry such beautiful empty woman, but I could do a LTR with her until I get bored.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is strange to hear. You get a winning lottery ticket and fret over the responsibilities of all that cash?

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm kind of a strange mix of pragmatist and idealist. I play the game but hate it all at the same time. It's all so fake. But the rewards are real at least.

That being said, i'd rather live in a world where we were better than this.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I haven’t found the rewards worth the effort. I climb another rung on the corporate ladder, and then what? I chase a new carrot on the stick and get abused some more in favor of corporate interests?

[–]S1imdragxn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Welcome to civilization

[–]woefulwankPsychology of Romance0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What's the alternative to climbing said ladder, in whichever sector you exist in? Don't compete, and be broke and low on the dominance hierarchy in society and flounder, both economically and romantically?

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20171 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wish I had an answer to that. There’s a great book about essentialism, which basically says that you should structure your life based on the things most important to you. I’m not sure making it to the top is important to me - my job is okay, it makes me a nice living situation, my boss is awesome and my subordinates and coworkers are too. I’m solidly middle management. I grew up broke as fuck fantasizing about the days when I wouldn’t be, and now that I’m here I’m not sure I’ve “won”. I want my job to be as low stress as possible so I can focus on my life outside of it because I don’t want to wake up and half my life was spent at the office trying to outcompete the dyed in the wool workaholics. You have to be a certain level of neurotic to want to spend all day dealing with this bullshit. I’m hoping I can start my own business at some point and bypass this all together.

[–]ABC_FloridaRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m hoping I can start my own business at some point and bypass this all together.

I don't think it is less stressful than having a middle management job.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20171 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but it’s probably not as boring. Being bored stresses me out too.

[–]Aaren_AugustineWants a Cookie1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That being said, i'd rather live in a world where we were better than this.

That's why I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson and Jocko Willink.

[–]woefulwankPsychology of Romance1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're essentially surrogate fathers to a generation of lost, disorientated boys and it's profound, yet deeply sad. As well as simultaneously remarkably positive for this generation.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

shouldn't

yeah well that's just like your opinion man

[–]AFuzzyMuffin0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I have a theory about it but I won't go into detail since it's based on the foundation of religion but I agree with you and the OP to a degree. Some things shouldn't work from a stance of people should be better than that but others things work from a perspective of if people were more religious I feel as if things would fit into place.

For example putting pussy on the pedestal would never really happen as often as it does because people would be too busy focusing on their religion's deity in a sense so all of that focus wouldn't go to the female to make them happy, and in doing so she would never feel like they are doing everything in their power to make her happy and she would have to take whatever remainder time they had etc etc.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

religion is a very effective way of controlling people

[–]AFuzzyMuffin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I prefer to think of it from the standpoint of it being a magnet and people should be drawn to it away from their current paths and views.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

what if they're already on the right path in life

[–]AFuzzyMuffin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wont answer that one since that's my own opinion.

[–]ReluctantSlimeball1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We think it shouldn’t work because we’ve been lied to.

Red-Pill simply teaches might is right. You can bend morals but strength is strength and weakness is weakness.

It does have a kind of beauty eventually.

[–]0kool741 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Red Pill approaches seem really cynical, amoral frankly and they shouldn't work but they do and they do so well it's kind of sad.

Actually I think it's kinda funny. There's scores of women out there lamenting dried pussily that there aren't any good men out there yet they've probably serviced more Chad cock than the urinals at a beer fest. Play the game or let the game play you!

And look when it comes to women or life, the nice guy approach garners you no respect

We do agree on that. The majority of men out there would be over the moon to find a woman that they could be compatible with, build a great relationship together, and genuinely love. But you give the typical woman a Poindexter type dude and she's gonna dry up quicker than the Sahara desert covered in ShamWows.

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL "Sahara desert covered in ShamWows". I'm going to have to remember that one, that's priceless.

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

At the same time, receiving love or sex isn't automatic and something that men can take for granted either. I've come to accept that no one is going to love me enough to stab someone in the face to protect me just because (my mom really didn't like it when I was almost kidnapped as a child). That kind of loyalty doesn't come automatically and maybe it won't ever be there,

on what planet have women ever showed loyalty by PHYSICALLY PROTECTING men? are you all getting these ideas from bad movies? sure someone would. a man. you want to date men

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Haha, when I was about 17 my boyfriend at the time got into with some guy in a stairwell as we were leaving a concert. I figured the dude would kick my boyfriend's ass so I jumped him myself and clawed the shit out of him before someone pulled me off. I can't remember what happened next; I guess we got the hell outta there before security showed up. I was wasted of course and had never been in a fight before but I guess my protective instincts kicked in. LOL

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

17

wasted

WHat the fuck happened to society where the good options still behaved this way lol

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what you're trying to say there, lol.

[–]WestsideMoonWalker"That fucking WestsideMoonWalker boomed me" "he's so good (x4)"1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That phrase stood out to me too. Shit is weird. My girlfriend has a bit of a violent streak, but that shit tops out at annoyed cat levels of violence, which is just amusing. Even reading that line, I couldn't ever imagine going to those lengths myself, since I can't remember the last time I was even mad in the first place. It's hard to react violently to something, especially at that level, unless you are looking for a fight or are already really goddamn mad.

[–]bcdude20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My grandma use to stop my mom from spanking me when I was young. Does that count?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Generally - tt only works short term. In the long run there will be shit that is going to bite you in the ass. Some aspects of their approach are healthy and work long term also - but then there come other aspects, the shallow and ones that go for instant gratification...

You think you're getting a good bang on your first date, but little did you know 2 weeks in the contempt this woman feels for you (mostly regretting you ignored her saying "no" when starting to peel off her clothes - and you don't stop cus fellow rp dood tells you need to be aggressive and dominating!!!) makes her passive aggressive and you don't really dig her attitude anymore - and you end up bitching about it to her, and maybe even quit her right there and then :)

[–]Jammerly1 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Women fall for game a lot of times because they don’t know men are playing it. Once you realize they are, it’s rage inducing. Every person has a certain frame - and women tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and blame themselves when things go wrong. It’s just another shitty byproduct of cultural sexism. Men are allowed to and encouraged to freely develop Machiavellian strategies to deal with women, but women are not. We don’t have little groups where we share strategies to take advantage of men. Women are just tying to have a genuine interaction with a human being and men are trying to decide how to play you like a chess piece.

 

It’s depressing because trying to constantly out manipulate people in a relationship and in the world at large is exhausting and a miserable existence. I hate it, personally, and it’s probably why I’ll only go so far in my career. I hate politics, I’m not good at them, and It would be nice (and less stressful) if we could all bring our genuine selves to the table.

[–]LewisCross 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

But I thought women were so incredibly intelligent and intuitive. They can just tell when a guy is playing them. Right? Right?

We don’t have little groups where we share strategies to take advantage of men.

HAHAHAHAHA

You have groups where you share strategies to get from men what you want and talk about what men are like.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

thought women were so incredibly intelligent and intuitive. They can just tell when a guy is playing them. Right?

Who’s ever said this?

You have groups where you share strategies to get from men what you want

Like what exactly?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (22 children) | Copy Link

Women come to PPD and r/thebluepill all the time talking about how they met a guy who they just KNOW is a TRPer and they sniffed him out from a mile away.

Like.... your friends. Grrrlfraaands talk all the time about their husbands/boyfriends - running them down, shittalking them, talking about how to manipulate them and get from them what you want and how to get them to do what you want. Like Ladies' church groups, where women do the same things. Like mass media directed at women (Cosmo, etc.) where women are told about The Ten best Sex Techniques to Blow His Mind (and His Junk).

[–]Jammerly1 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Some TERPS can definitely be sniffed out, but not all.

running them down, shittalking them, talking about how to lmanipulate them and get from them what you want and how to get them to do what you want. Like Ladies' church groups, where women do the same things. Like mass media directed at women (Cosmo, etc.) where women are told about The Ten best Sex Techniques to Blow His Mind (and His Junk).

The difference between this as described above and TRP is that womens seems like the “manipulations” are mutually beneficial. TRP doesn’t advocate learning to please women at all, just take. So once again women are learning how to help make men healthy and happy and you all plot how to subjugate us and be a cancer on all our lives.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Women's manipulations are mutually beneficial? HAHAHAHAHAHA

how is this mutually beneficial for men? "how to lmanipulate them and get from them what you want and how to get them to do what you want. " That benefits men how?

You women are learning how to "make men healthy and happy"? HAHAHAHAHAHA If that were the case you wouldn't be initiating 70+ % of divorces, running men down, shittalking them, and basically treating them like shit.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

90% of the time “what we want” is something that is mutually beneficial or completely benefits YOU all. Convincing you to go to the doctor. Convincing you to dress better. Convincing you to clean and take care of things and not wallow in your own filth. Convincing you to care about and take interest in your own children. We “trick” you into becoming healthier and happier people.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, 90% of the time "what you want" is something FOR YOURSELVES. You don't spend time telling men to dress better or personal hygiene? Give me a fucking break. Men care about and take interest in their own children in their own way and the fact that it doesn't look like that to you doesn't mean it's not happening.

No, women are being self interested here, most of the time. dating, marriage, kids - all for women's self aggrandizement, really.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, 90% of the time "what you want" is something FOR YOURSELVES. You don't spend time telling men to dress better or personal hygiene? Give me a fucking break

How does convincing you to look your best and not to slowly kill yourselves and destroy your family for our benefit? If anything we’d be letting you toil alway until you die so we could collect life insurance, but I’ve never heard any woman advocate for that.

Men care about and take interest in their own children in their own way and the fact that it doesn't look like that to you doesn't mean it's not happening.

Mens interest in their children is usually only sustained as long as it doesn’t cost them anything or impede on their “free time”. You always expect the women in your lives to sacrifice more than you do.

No, women are being self interested here, most of the time. dating, marriage, kids - all for women's self aggrandizement, really.

Maybe back in the 60s when we had no other choices, and had To take all our pride and self worth from being good wives and mothers, but that hasn’t been true for some time now.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Convincing men to look their best and not slowly kill ourselves and destroy the family? Do you think men have this power?

You try to convince men to look your best because if we don't look good, YOU don't look good to your grrlfraaands. Your man looks like a scrub, and women cannot tolerate being with scrubs. Same with hygiene - BO, jacked teeth, whatever. His looking like shit makes YOU look like shit - he's low rent and that makes YOU low rent. It also means that you weren't good enough to get someone better, and women know this, and you know they know it. And they judge you. And women HATE being judged negatively.

How do you know anything about how men relate to their children? Do you have any kids? Ever raised any? Being the father of two kids, and having done a lot to raise one to adulthood, I am pretty sure I know more about this than you do.

Women still take most of their pride from being with and having a good, hot man. It's why we have all the "where are all the good men" articles - "why can't I find a good man?" Where are they?"

[–]ABC_FloridaRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

90% of the time “what we want” is something that is mutually beneficial or completely benefits YOU all.

What you are describing is the female version of the nice guy sucks phenomenon.

Convincing you to go to the doctor. Convincing you to dress better. Convincing you to clean and take care of things and not wallow in your own filth.

Don't you see it as a problem? You convince, thus change (or rather attempt to) a person YOU have chosen. Not saying men don't tidy up at the beginning of a relationship, but in my experience those thing you mentioned are rarely the fields where men kick up their game at the beginning of relationships. Though I agree that your points are positive life improvements, you still are trying to make decisions for other people. BTW, I totally agree with your point regarding children.

TRP doesn’t advocate learning to please women at all, just take.

I don't think so. If you are a player, you get women, because you please them. You make them an excitement which they like, and trust you enough to get intimate with you. Only taking is called rape.

The issue is common among all the people. The truth is too hard to swallow. If you are raised while being educated from childhood how men will deceive, use and dump you; then why would you develop a need to be MORE than this to somebody? To start with, most likely your parents had much deeper relationship and joy in their life if they started a family. But if you are raised with an achievable illusion in mind, you are still better off than having an unchallenged principle that AMALT. Because this way there is a visceral urge in you to reach that illusion.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I don't think so. If you are a player, you get women, because you please them. You make them an excitement which they like, and trust you enough to get intimate with you

TRP is not about pleasing women. They take from women and sustain these one sided relationships for as long as possible by selling false dreams and keeping the woman in a constant state of insecurity.

If you are raised while being educated from childhood how men will deceive, use and dump you; then why would you develop a need to be MORE than this to somebody?

Because that’s the way it is.

[–]ABC_FloridaRed Pill Man0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Because that’s the way it is.

Was it the way for your mother, and every woman you know?

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is kind of a topic for another thread but TRP doesn't mean that someone is a bad person. Once I've attracted a woman and gotten in, I don't treat her like shit at all. You can obviously give moments where you are nice to her and only her. But like, recognize that spoiling her doesn't help you in the long run. Even if the man is a "good" person at his core, he knows that in order to keep a woman, even a highly educated smart one that has a strong moral compass, he needs to be a certain way at times.

See the nice guy thing sounds great. It sounds like a dream come true for a lot of women, but understand that you will tire of this after a while and frankly the nice guy routine is a bit unhealthy for the guy as well. But no one is talking about exploiting women, we're just being realistic about what it takes. And I have to tell you, even the "good" ones even the most highly educated people, work the same way. They might be less likely to divorce you or abandon you or cheat but...getting in there is the same.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Once I've attracted a woman and gotten in, I don't treat her like shit at all.

I used to believe this, that eventually most guys will drop the facade, but it hasn’t been my experience. If they start with games, they end with games. And it usually ends because I get tired of the bullshit.

But like, recognize that spoiling her doesn't help you in the long run.

I think guys vastly underestimate what “spoiling” is and use it as an excuse to do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with to maintain the relationship. And they always expect the woman to stick her neck out first.

See the nice guy thing sounds great. It sounds like a dream come true for a lot of women, but understand that you will tire of this after a while and frankly the nice guy routine is a bit unhealthy for the guy as well.

I don’t necessarily think a nice guy is better - a man should be able to hold his own. There’s got to be a happy medium somewhere.

But no one is talking about exploiting women, we're just being realistic about what it takes.

From reading many of the posts, I still think many of them are there to ultimately learn how to exploit women. From what I can see, It doesn’t really mention what women are really supposed get out of these redpilled relationships other than a lot of grey hairs.

[–]wtknightHardcore Romantic3 points4 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Men are allowed to and encouraged to freely develop Machiavellian strategies to deal with women, but women are not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rules

This was written back in 1995 and is pretty much female strategies to deal with men. Even without actual books, I think that this type of stuff is written about every month in magazines for women.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20171 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

The rules basically boil down to don’t sleep with him to soon- it’s not how to subjugate or humiliate women the way TRP does.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's not about "subjugating or humiliating" women. TRP basically boils down to build value, have self respect, have boundaries, enforce them hard, and don't waste time or money on bitches. Women are a side benefit of a good life constructed and well lived; not the be all and end all of life.

[–]Jammerly1 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

No TRP definitely advocates going back to some kind of patriarchal relationship structure where women’s interests are constantly subjugated in favor of theirs instead of mutually beneficial partnerships. It also advocates lying by omission, and purposefully ignoring women’s boundaries, exerting control through force, and “holding frame” which is basically gaslighting women into believing your bullshit.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Listen Jammerly, I understand where you are coming from I really do. But I can't lie to you...the world you live in of how you think relationships works well it doesn't. Listen, I've known a fair number of feminist activists, some quite attractive actually. And I gotta tell you it always goes the same way for them. They either can't find a man at all because they frankly don't leave room in their life for men, which come on if you just cut down on 2 netflix episodes per week you could make time for dating. Or, if they find a man who fits the feminist ideal, they reject him because he "seemed" not right (translation he's a feminine wuss, straight but a wuss and not attractive to women). And so they remain alone.

When I was in college I saw the same pattern over and over again. And you know what? The girl I knew who had the most stable long-term relationship was dating a ROTC guy and they had traditional gender roles but their relationship lasted and was stable and healthy. That girl is now in medical school doing her career thing and her boyfriend is nearby (I frankly don't understand how ROTC works but hey good for them). The traditional nature of their relationship did not limit her career or her ambitions at all. When you meet her she seems like an army wife for sure but then oh wait she isn't dumb AF.

So you tell me, has she really fallen prey to the patriarchal structure of our society? Or is she just a woman who has a man and has her career too?

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Listen, I've known a fair number of feminist activists, some quite attractive actually. And I gotta tell you it always goes the same way for them. They either can't find a man at all because they frankly don't leave room in their life for men, which come on if you just cut down on 2 netflix episodes per week you could make time for dating.

It sounds like They’re avoiding relationships on purpose and just saying they’re “too busy” as an excuse. Some women don’t really want to be married but it’s not really acceptable for us to be able to say so. Either that or they have deep seated issues/trauma with men and don’t feel like trying anymore.

Or, if they find a man who fits the feminist ideal, they reject him because he "seemed" not right (translation he's a feminine wuss, straight but a wuss and not attractive to women). And so they remain alone.

Are they big on gender fluidity? I think feminists who try to deny innate male/female biological are doing themselves a disservice in a relationships and child rearing. They don’t really want feminine men any more than men want masculine women. You can believe in the equality of the sexes and yet acknowledge we’re not the same.

The girl I knew who had the most stable long-term relationship was dating a ROTC guy and they had traditional gender roles but their relationship lasted and was stable and healthy

What was it about their relationship/gender roles that seemed traditional?

So you tell me, has she really fallen prey to the patriarchal structure of our society? Or is she just a woman who has a man and has her career too?

It really depends on the overall quality of their relationship and I’d have to understand in what ways they were traditional. Some women pretend to have “it all” and be the perfect submissive wife on the ‘gram but are very miserable in real life.

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

About your comment on gender fluidity. Yes that's exactly right. They are feminists talking about expanding the role of women in society and they actively support acceptance of women more broadly. But that doesn't apply to men. They don't really actually endorse a greater latitude of male archetypes despite their desire for an acceptance of more female archetypes. That fundamental mismatch is why RP is important and useful. Because at the end of the day that's the obstacle a man has to surmount to get to any kind of sexual goal with a woman (be it a one night stand or a relationship).

And really for the gender roles being traditional it was the fact that he held the door for her, she cooked for him usually, he drove the car when they were together, she cleaned their shared apartment, he unclogged the toilet, things of that nature. And I really don't think they were putting on a performance tbh. She could have ditched him at any time; she definitely had some good options. But she didn't, she picked the army guy over a lot of others. They also only fought a very minimal amount; I lived next door to them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That seems like genuinely good book.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It is a good book for women to get money, provisioning, and beta bitchboy husbands. The book is a roadmap for women, teaching them how to get a beta bitchboy provider and wrap him around her little finger, how to make him dance like a monkey and threaten, cajole and intimidate him into doing and being what she wants.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20174 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Have you actually read the book?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, don't need to. It's basically Girl Game - how to manipulate, defraud and deceive beta men.

Here's a sampling of the chapter list:

1.Be a “Creature Unlike Any Other" (i.e. be mysterious, don't be open, and manipulate him)

2.Don't Talk to a Man First (and Don't Ask Him to Dance) (Translation: manipulate and deceive)

3.Don't Stare at Men or Talk Too Much (Be aloof, don't show interest)

4.Don't Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date (Make him pay. Extract money and resources from the start.)

5.Don't Call Him and Rarely Return His Calls (Don't show interest. Don't show him you give a shit. Keep him guessing.)

6.Always End Phone Calls First (Make it look like you're really busy even when you're not, like you're "in demand").

7.Don't Accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday (See above - you're really busy. Make him think you're dating other men. Make him think he must act now to lock you down.)

8.Fill Up Your Time before the Date (Dating's no big deal. He's just a guy.)

11.Always End the Date First (Don't look too desperate, like you like him too much.)

12.Stop Dating Him if He Doesn't Buy You a Romantic Gift for Your Birthday or Valentine's Day (he needs to start giving you money and resources, and if he doesn't, find a man you can extract resources from more easily)

13.Don’t See Him More than Once or Twice a Week (Give the appearance of busy-ness and being in demand, manipulate and defraud him into thinking you're dating other men.)

16.Don't Tell Him What to Do (It's not time for that yet.)

17.Let Him Take the Lead (until you are married. Then you shove the cattleprod up his ass.)

18.Don't Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him (not yet, anyway.)

19.Don’t Open Up Too Fast (because you need to make him WORK for it.)

20.Be Honest but Mysterious (don't be honest. Manipulate, be coy, obfuscate, deceive, defraud.)

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Then you shove the cattleprod up his ass.

Oooh! Kinky!

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20173 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh please, these rules are still totally Advocating female subservience.

  1. Be interesting and hot enough to attract a mate.
  2. Let him pursue you because men don’t value things they can gain easily.
  3. Men hate hearing and don’t care about women’s thoughts and opinions
  4. Same as #2
  5. Same as # 2
  6. Same as #2
  7. Same as #2
  8. Same as #1

The auto numbering kicks in - but this is point 11-20.

  1. Same as #2
  2. Same as #2
  3. Same as #1
  4. Same as #3
  5. Same as #3
  6. Same as #3
  7. Same as #1, 2, 3
  8. Same as #1,2,3

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

We don’t have little groups where we share strategies to take advantage of men.

They don't need little groups-- women do it freely and in the open and with a "you go girl" stamp of approval from the mainstream.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20171 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Stamp of approval For what exactly?

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I literally quoted 'what exactly' from you.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20170 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What kinds of techniques are we sharing to take advantage of men?

[–]wracky272RPG's are fun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

/u/LewisCross did a better job of answering this above. Gonna refer there because I don't think I could say it any better.

[–]crackrocksteady7Jason tell me what you're chasing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are allowed to and encouraged to freely develop Machiavellian strategies to deal with women, but women are not.

Lmfao

[–]Willow-girlSuffering from bovarian oppression0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are just tying to have a genuine interaction with a human being and men are trying to decide how to play you like a chess piece.

NAMALT.

[–]Mr_SmoogsThe 2nd most obnoxious poster here-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

if we could all bring our genuine selves to the table.

What is this? The optimal male evolutionary inclined reproductive strategy is to have a submissive wife to provide for and mother his children (quality over quantity) while also sleeping with other women on the side (quantity over quality). Bastards and heirs.

Can you define genuine self? Because men are hardwired with the capability and willingness to kill. Is murder your genuine self? Or is the culturally programmed gentleman a "genuine self?"

Sounds like what you mean by "genuine self" is actually what benefits you (women) the most.

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[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Random college kid espousing generalized something or other.

[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU MY DOGS WILL2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

boo hoo.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Red Pill has taught me things it never intended. TIL that women are all entitled gimmee-gimmees who demand SO MUCH from men and guys will fall all over themselves for Stacy even if she is a bitch. Obviously Red Pill does not WANT women to be this way but they are claiming it as Truth so why not give it a try? If Red Pill works and it's Truth I should be able to waltz out there and make men tap dance for me, buy me things, use up all their precious time to make me haaaaaappy. It's the Truth, isn't it?

You see the problem.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be FAIR you could do that honestly. Depending on your crowd it's possible. You should see how many people try to gift free skins, to girls on league even if they don't know them.

[–]PrieneNon-Red Pill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you stop using PPD as your personal safe space and instead cough up the dough to talk to a doctor who specializes in this sort of stuff?

Women aren't going to love you or want to fuck you because you're this wonderful human being. If women cared about that good-natured shit Ghandi would have died of dick-exhaustation instead of ending up murdered by some lunatic, and that's fine. Your dick is not getting hard for a woman because she volunteers at a kitchen soup.

Look, it's not complicated. If you are interested in a woman - flirt with her. It's easy. Smile at her. Make a comment about her hair, clothes, lips, make-up, whatever the fuck it is. Just don't be creepy, don't be eager, and just be light about it.

If she is attracted to you she will flirt back, if she's not - who gives a shit. 3.5 Billion women in the world for you to meet, and if she doesn't want to fuck you she can introduce you to her girlfriends and you might just fuck those.

Don't ruin shit with your female friends by getting butthurt over not getting fucked by them. Be a man, accept the rejection, grow thick skin and meet more women.

[–]EscapeTheGoatRed Pill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro...what? I feel like you didn't read the post. Which is fine, no one asked you to. But like. We're not in disagreement. And none of this has anything to do with refusing to have female friends.

[–]newName543456went volcel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

RP doesn't care if it's pleasant or not, it wasn't made to be pleasant, it was gathered from observing what works and replicating it to confirm, tossing relative stuff like morality aside.

[–]splunx0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

RP works with a certain set of women. The more a woman likes RP style tactics, the less she is worth for long-term commitment.

[–]AFuzzyMuffin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can agree with this for sure.

[–]blackedoutfastRed Pill Man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

wrong. RP works on all women, and it works best on the women who think it won't work on them.

[–]Jammerly1Snatching TRP Bald since 20172 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How do you figure? TRP is supposedly for every guy, even those in committed relationships.

[–]splunx4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well it really depends.

The more a guy is lacking in conventional attractiveness (short, bald, ugly, etc), the more he may need to rely on RP tactics. An unattractive guy cannot have a milketoast personality.

RP tactics are GREAT for attracting women that like RP tactics. Look at rappers (lil pump/wayne). But extreme RP men seldom make a relationship last, there needs to be a beta-ness as well, for comfort building.

But, I think what's better than an RP personality is an INFLUENTIAL personality-which I define as a personality of natural leaders. This is much harder to pull off than an RP personality, which by default is amoral, and gains its appeal by exploitive and strategic manipulation.

[–]SadDoggo450 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That is true, different girls prefer different men and different approaches.

But being a "nice guy" that caters to women and showers her with compliments never works

[–]splunx0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It can, I've done this several times, but it has to come from a high status position. If the women perceives you to be lower in status, then no it doesn't work.

[–]SadDoggo450 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Doesn't that mean gold diggers?

[–]splunx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No, it can be social status as well, or how well your personality dominates other personalities.

[–]neomancr-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It only does because here's the hierarchy.

Nice guys ™, assholes, good guys.

A man with a spine who is being genuine will always do better than a subservient male trying to bribe women in exchange for affection.

Among the subset of nice guys ™ they will do better if they are assholes because at least it's a step up from being a phony

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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