Tennessee Bill Would Allow Fathers to Veto Abortions

rolurk · 2021-02-12T19:24:43+00:00

Where I'm from the fathers are the ones paying for the abortions so they don't pay child support or have to deal with being a father.

Why this never gets talked about in the abortion debate is interesting.

Astarkraven · 2021-02-12T22:12:51+00:00

Imagine thinking even for a second that you have the right of veto power over someone's body. Yuck.

Bandit174 · 2021-02-12T19:20:00+00:00

No, but I would like to see mandatory paternity testing at birth and the ability to veto child support.

Like if a woman gets pregnant the guy should be able to say "i don't want to be responsible for a child" and then the woman can choose to either raise it on her own or abort it.

That way both sexes get an option to opt out of resposibility instead of just the woman.

RunsWlthScissors · 2021-02-12T20:04:28+00:00

They're not fathers until that baby is born. If there was a way in which to extract a pregnancy from a woman's body in a non-invasive manner so that the father-to-be can implant said pregnancy into a surrogate, then sure, by all means! If there was a way to NON-INVASIVELY extract that pregnancy and grow the fetus outside of the woman's womb, go for it.

But until that can happen, you cannot force women into unwanted pregnancies and childbirth. Period.

Dazzling_Narwhal_113 · 2021-02-12T20:14:54+00:00

Absolutely not. No one should be able to force women to carry a pregnancy or abort it.

JohnDoe9564 · 2021-02-12T19:17:26+00:00

No, they're not the ones who are going to be carrying the kid for 9 months and birthing it.

They however should be allowed to financially abort outside of marriage.

kissmetilyouredrunk · 2021-02-12T19:22:04+00:00

The article says there is no exception for rape.

Usually I think feminists are exaggerating when they say southern states are trying to make the Handmaids Tale a reality— but here's a bill that makes forced breeding of women by men legal.

kickit · 2021-02-12T21:27:09+00:00

Tennessee Bill sounds like a real tough character

thelajestic · 2021-02-12T19:39:07+00:00

But it brings up some interesting points - would you want fathers to be able to veto abortions?

Sure - if they firstly figure out how to transplant the embryo into the man to grow and then get it c-sectioned out of him at term.

MotherMfker · 2021-02-12T20:41:16+00:00

This is so funny to me. Unless you need cash for the abortion why even tell the sperm donor? If the clinic tries the force the issue oh it was a drunk 1 night stand I dont remember. I firmly believe in not telling men your getting an abortion its not their business.

SaBahRub · 2021-02-12T20:07:30+00:00

Lol, are they also volunteering to be single fathers or pay lots of child support? I’m going to bet.....no

synosphrene · 2021-02-12T20:20:36+00:00

Vasectomies 🚀🚀🚀

Guapscotch · 2021-02-12T21:09:17+00:00

No, it violates the woman’s constitutional right of bodily autonomy. It’s in her body and she has the free will to do whatever she wants to her own body. It’s really that simple.

AbnormalBias · 2021-02-12T22:02:43+00:00

A woman shouldn't have to carry a baby to term if she doesn't want to, but a man should not be expected to pay child support if he did not want the baby carried to term. This isn't ideal for everyone but imo is better than the "father must pay" policy we have nowadays.

superlurkage · 2021-02-12T19:20:49+00:00

Tell me again why we need more humans on this earth?

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-12T20:10:47+00:00

Hell no. If you don't want a woman you sleep with aborting your fetus, you should have cleared that up before sleeping with her.

sublimemongrel · 2021-02-12T20:22:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

cloudsongs_ · 2021-02-13T02:14:07+00:00

No, unless there is some way to remove the fetus from the mother's body so that the father can pay for the incubation of the fetus. If that's not possible, this bill should be trashed.

Here's the scenario I think of when it comes to pregnancy and abortion. My mother could have kidney failure and I may be the closest match for a kidney transplant. I love her a lot but in the end, it is MY choice whether I want to donate a part of my body to ensure the survival of another. No one can force me to donate my kidney. In the same way, no one should be able to force me to donate my body to ensure the survival of a fetus.

Matt_Door · 2021-02-12T20:48:04+00:00

The prolife crowd just want to hurt poor people and keep them down. They don’t give a fuck about life.

I don’t give a shit about abortion, and don’t know why so many men do. If it’s your kid then you should take care of your kid, don’t put that on me, the tax payer. I pay for my kid, you pay for yours. Other than that? Abortion is going to happen anyway, make it safe legal and rare, educate dumb kids about sex and make birth control plentiful if you’re pro life(but you’re not because you don’t want to do that, you want to punish people you don’t like)

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2021-02-12T19:17:41+00:00

tennessee bill will be thrown out

sweatyapplejuice · 2021-02-12T19:44:11+00:00

Women should indeed be able to opt out of birthing a child.

Men should also be able to opt out of paying for one.

Like Dave Chappelle said: If she can kill it, I should at least be able to abandon it.

PrincessFKNPeach · 2021-02-12T19:10:28+00:00

2021-02-12T23:53:20+00:00

Yeesh, the *only* group of men that I'm aware of that want to force women into having unwanted pregnancies are literally domestic abusers.

I think there should be a special legal status early pregnancy termination of fatherly rights and responsibilities but that's it. It would entail him having to stay physically away from the mother, no ability to come back at a later date and sue for custody and the stay away order would extend to his family members if necessary. If the father tried to come back and started pestering the mother or his family members started harassing her it would result in immediate fines and jailtime.

blueXcat · 2021-02-13T00:36:45+00:00

They should get to say no to parenthood, but clearly not force another person to suffer for them

relish5k · 2021-02-12T19:49:03+00:00

I mean, obviously he'll no.

However I have spent some time thinking about the merits of "financial abortion " - is it fair that women get an out for parenthood but men do not? The mechanics of pregnancy make the woman's right to decide the fate of the pregnancy far more paramount, but the fact that men have zero agency makes me uncomfortable.

In an ideal world, women would a) know that they were pregnant in the first trimester b) know definitively who the father is c) inform him of the pregnancy d) receive a firm Y / N commitment from him to be full supportive of the pregnancy and child rearing or not at all and then e) use that information to decide whether or not to terminate the pregnancy (still in the first trimester)

This is way too logistically challenging to ever work tho

chrissy676 · 2021-02-12T19:22:29+00:00

That's really tough. I'm against abortion, but I can see some guys abusing this just because.

2021-02-12T19:28:52+00:00

Oh boy, who’s ready for a weekend of abortion related posts?

Anyway I totally disagree with this, he should not be able to force a woman carry a child. It’s not his body, he doesn’t have to go through the awfulness of pregnancy. However, a man should be able to write himself out of the kids life if he wants, meaning “financially and legally abort”

majani · 2021-02-12T19:19:47+00:00

Sure! As long as I get child support that starts as soon as 3 months pregnant and missed payments are an automatic arrest and charge.

mtorres266 · 2021-02-12T20:11:09+00:00

Not the abortion because it’s the woman that has to carry it, but if the man doesn’t want a kid, he shouldn’t be forced to be a father or give the woman money for it

EminemLovesGrapes · 2021-02-12T21:22:32+00:00

It's weird to sort of see a double standard here.

If women are allowed to abort a child against the biological fathers wishes a man should have the option to "abort" the child financially. That would be fair.

I'd argue it would have to be more than just financially, no contact, no money, nothing. Restraining order, the whole deal. Out of her life.

Because otherwise, only the woman has an out. The guy never does.

It almost makes me think of the stereotype of women always avoiding responsibility and men always having to "be reponsible" (not that they are). Funny.

Sage_Planter · 2021-02-12T21:45:42+00:00

Wonder if the women will get the going rate for a surrogate which is like $30k

2021-02-12T22:32:16+00:00

Sometimes you need a bright-line rule. If you're the biological parent of a child you're responsible for that child. This rule applies to both men and women. Unless a woman was artificially inseminated or raped an unconscious guy (pretty damn hard to prove that one) the biodad is responsible (as is the biomom). If he doesn't want to pay support he can petition for custody and raise the child himself (she'd likely have to pay him child support).

2021-02-12T23:21:36+00:00

So it just means if her pregnancy test shows positive he won't know until it's too late.

Do you know the father?

Nope. Abort away.

LowCreddit · 2021-02-12T23:28:02+00:00

This would force women to carry babies to term. Even if this weren't morally questionable, it would be impractical. You would need either a crime or tort to enforce it. The whole thing is impractical and mostly just a political statement. The final arrangement will be abortion rights for women and abandonment rights for men with negotiable post-birth parental custody defaulted to 50/50. That is the only way forward.

Kneel_before_Z0d · 2021-02-13T00:57:42+00:00

If they front the money for an abortion they should be able to walk away and never pay child support.

XpertMcLovin · 2021-02-13T01:01:33+00:00

okok so let’s say the woman wants to keep the baby that makes automatically the man the genitor and also the father. he will have to pay child support.

but

let’s say the man doesn’t want to kill the baby (the woman still has all the right to her body btw) suddenly his position as the father is suddenly irrelevant and his will do not matter.

NewSpekt · 2021-02-13T01:20:37+00:00

Unwanted pregnancy is a physical and emotional damage for a woman. Man should pay serious financial compensation to woman for impregnating and therefore harming her. It's should be a new law. I expect prolifers support it as I promise it will reduce amount of abortions as horny men will think twice before sticking their penises around.

2021-02-13T02:10:36+00:00

You should be able to veto it to lower or get rid of child support

2021-02-13T02:37:43+00:00

Tennessee is in the Bible Belt so this crazy ass bill makes a lot of seance that it would come from there.

autonomousfailure · 2021-02-13T04:43:37+00:00

May sound like a jerk, but I say it’s the decision for both parties (the would be dad and mom).

It’s 2021 and people still don’t know that the sole purpose of sex is to reproduce?

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-02-13T12:43:52+00:00

Obviously, I don’t see this either passing or being allowed to stand

Yes, unlikely given that:

" Applying this new standard of review, the Court upheld four provisions of the Pennsylvania law, but invalidated the requirement of spousal notification....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood_v._Casey

Atilla942 · 2021-02-13T15:18:06+00:00

I'm not American and I would say I'm mostly pro abortion but I also get where anti abortionists are coming from. Like I get that women should be able to make that choice because they're the ones who have to go through pregnancy and deal with dangerous health consequences. On the other hand men should be allowed to financially abort if they didn't want to be a father. I know it sounds shitty but we can't have double standards. You can't have total freedom for women but enslave men through family courts.

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-02-13T16:35:35+00:00

No. Don’t get me wrong, I think fathers absolutely should be involved in this decision if possible. But ultimately it isn’t his body, and there are too many situations where this would create more harm than good.

Everything relating to abortion is tough for me because I’m not okay with it, but I also respect bodily autonomy and don’t feel I can make that decision for someone else.

As for child support “abortions,” I believe there’s nothing wrong with requiring a paternity test, but if that’s your kid you gotta support it. Women don’t have the option to “abort” their child after birth, either. You don’t get to punish a child financially because you don’t waaaaant it. The only reason I’m at all pro-choice is that the fetus is literally living off of her body... therefore it falls under her bodily autonomy. Other than that, you make a kid, you are responsible for giving it a good life. Wrap it up, take birth control, be smart, people.

Willow-girl · 2021-02-14T07:57:59+00:00

Fathers can veto abortions when they can carry the babies to term within their own bodies ...

2021-03-05T21:21:14+00:00

In order to make abortion illegal you would have to give the fetus extra rights that no other born person possess and give pregnant women less rights than all other citizens. You would have to essentially strip all women of child bearing age of thier rights to decide what happens to thier body the moment they got pregnant. No woman is going to go for that. No woman wants a man, a fetus, and the state to have more control over her than she does. She's the owner of the body not the dude. He doesn't get to make medical decisions for her because she is a free autonomous human being with the same rights as everyone else. If she wants to get a medical procedure to avoid 9 months of multiple medical procedures that's her choice. If she chooses not to get a medical procedure to end her pregnancy that's also her choice. No one gets to force her into the multuple medical procedures which are necessary to bring a fertilized egg to birth without her consent. Or block her from any medical procedures agianst her will. Pregnant or not she has the right to decide her health care for herself. It's once agian her body. A man doesn't get to decide that she has to incubate his sperm for him. Cumming inside someone doesn't grant you partial ownership over thier medical decisions or thier reproductive organs. You don't just get to claim someone else's organs for your personal use because you shot some sperm up there. That person still owns that body regardless of what is or is not inside of it. And anything that interferes with her right to make decisions for that body that are best for herself is a violation of her rights to herself as a whole and complete and free person.

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2021-02-12T19:21:16+00:00

I'd rather men get to veto births, than abortions.

AnarchoNAP · 2021-02-12T19:19:54+00:00

There are points to be made for allowing half of a committed AKA married couple to have a say in decisions. If you didn't buy on you should get zero say, and zero money.

jojo0507 · 2021-02-12T21:17:24+00:00

Fine then father's need to pay all prenatal costs and expenses. Pay the woman for surrogacy of his child. And then commit to raising said child on their own emotionally, physically and financially till the child is of adult age.

2021-02-12T19:17:38+00:00

But it brings up some interesting points - would you want fathers to be able to veto abortions?

So long as men are not able to opt out, this is just a bare minimum that ought go along with that state of things.

Her body, her choice? Her goddamn wallet.

sweatyapplejuice · 2021-02-12T19:17:52+00:00

If a man can't veto then she can't get child support if it's the other way around. Fair is fair.

DaBlockObama · 2021-02-12T19:19:56+00:00

I would be more interested in the ability to enforce abortions

ArguesAgainstYou · 2021-02-12T19:56:50+00:00

No point in thinking about what should be.

This will be a thing when it's possible to transplant a live foetus into an artifical womb and not one day earlier. Actually probably years later than that too.

2021-02-12T21:25:33+00:00

I don't see how it could work.

Would that mean that I would be forced to allow the fetus to use my body? How would he make me eat? Or care about the pregnancy at all then?

Special-Armadillo-99 · 2021-02-12T22:19:43+00:00

It's a step towards equality, but not the ideal solution. I would vote in favor if just to set the precedence that men should have some form of reproductive rights.

dejour · 2021-02-12T20:04:42+00:00

To me, I think it's obvious that your position on this will follow your opinion on abortions.

If you think that a woman's bodily autonomy means that she has an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy, then obviously you can't support this.

If you think that a fetus's right to life supersedes a woman's right to bodily autonomy, then this is a step in the right direction even if it doesn't go far enough. Some fetuses will be saved.

kissmetilyouredrunk · 2021-02-12T21:39:25+00:00

Logically, this would be more equal than the current situation, but women just don't want to endure pregnancy. That's the main reason for abortion. "Bodily autonomy" is just the legal justification behind it.

Anyway, if the father wants the child but the mother doesn't, I think caring for the child without her assistance is equal, if not more than going through the pregnancy and birth. Its not exactly fair that a woman should be able to abort if a man wants his child, or carry to term and obligate that he pay for the child if he doesn't want the child.

Nodeal_reddit · 2021-02-12T20:55:58+00:00

Sure. If women have the right to demand child support. Either the kid is 50% his responsibility or it is not.

ItsOK_IgotU · 2021-02-13T08:18:46+00:00

Better idea... let’s just have men get vasectomies, and when they decide they would like to have kids, they can have it reversed?

Sounds like problem solved to me.

They wouldn’t “need” condoms (oh wait, lol STDs/STIs, DUH), wouldn’t have to worry about paternal fraud, wouldn’t have to worry about pregnancy like... ya know at all.

Women wouldn’t need to take birth control and the harmful effects it has on our bodies. Women wouldn’t need abortions unless absolutely, medically, necessary. No unplanned pregnancies or oops.

Sounds like a perfect world. Doesn’t it?

2021-02-12T19:20:40+00:00

No no no, this is useless, we need opposite, like we should have right to force abortion or smthing like that...

asdf333aza · 2021-02-12T19:40:47+00:00

What's that smell? Is it equality in the air?

crookedsummer2019 · 2021-02-12T20:57:37+00:00

So, the father vetoing the abortion will be raising the child on his own then? I’m assuming that’s why he would want to veto the abortion. Can’t make someone raise a child they don’t want so if this bill doesn’t state who is accountable to the veto then the child could end up becoming a ward of the state no?

AmateurDemographer · 2021-02-12T23:19:05+00:00

In situations where the woman did a poor job communicating, yes.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-02-13T12:06:51+00:00

But it brings up some interesting points - would you want fathers to be able to veto abortions?

Alot would, but most wouldn't because they typically agree with the woman they sleep with on most things.
Pro-choice people typically fuck each other, and pro-life people typically fuck each other.

CheshireLokiison93 · 2021-02-13T16:36:47+00:00

Hell yeah!

Naxxremel · 2021-02-13T19:35:05+00:00

Yes.

Title	Tennessee Bill Would Allow Fathers to Veto Abortions
Author	SmurfESmurferson
Upvotes	153
Comments	487
Date	February 12, 2021 7:08 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lii7ao/tennessee_bill_would_allow_fathers_to_veto/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/tennessee-bill-would-allow-fathers-to-veto.739940 https://theredarchive.com/post/739940