The issue isn't buying things for your girl. The issue is that you feel ENTITLED that I buy YOU things BECAUSE you're my girl.

punkpoppenguin · 2020-10-15T07:53:55+00:00

Can I ask, is that not just a relationship? Me and my man go 50/50 on everything, sometimes I pay a little more because I earn more, or I’ll cook us dinner at home or whatever. And the whole time I’m kissing him, holding his hand and showing him off. It’s not gratitude I just love him

passepar2t · 2020-10-15T07:09:54+00:00

FDSers are entitled up to here, sure.

But the main purpose of requesting a fancy restaurant is to screen for simps. They want nothing to do with non-simps, they've decided, and they want to instantly have full control over the relationship.

You're coming at it from the POV of a normal, healthy relationship, which isn't what the FDSers are looking for.

wekacuck · 2020-10-15T12:54:27+00:00

It's more of a sweetspot sort of thing. In a functional relationship people are generous and giving to each other and it's synergistic.

That synergy breaks when one person feels taken advantage of and feeds resentment. That's what's behind people talking about entitlement. It can be worse when people double down on the giving hoping to restart/rekindle things. So generalizing, I think jaded FDS types have tried to double down on being sexually available and gotten burned and are resentful about that. Jaded guys have doubled down on spending and are resentful about that. So they create rules to protect themselves from feeling taken advantage of. There are other similar patterns in relationship collapse where there is poor communication and people feel unappreciated.

Another similar angle is Love Languages which tries to address mismatches through awareness of differences in how people prefer to show vs receive affection. Awareness about different modes can help reduce resentment. So in your example you Love Language awareness would see giving affection by giving gifts and receiving affection with acts of service and there's not really any disconnect so the synergy is intact.

I do think people should end relationships if the synergy is not there or cannot be restored. Which is an entitlement. If I'm in a relationship I want to be giving and not feel taken advantage. That for me is existential to the relationship and therefore an entitlement.

WilliamWyattD · 2020-10-15T06:56:26+00:00

Of course anyone feeling entitled is almost always a problem on an individual level. But again, on an individual level, lots of approaches to gender roles work and are fair. She is not entitled, but there is still a gender-based expectation that you will buy her more than she buys you. But hopefully she retains some traditional female gender roles that benefit you, so it balances out.

But by conflating the individual and society level issue, I believe you miss the point. On the society level, the point becomes that if we are aiming at eliminating all the gender roles, why do many feminists seem OK about keeping all the ones that favor women?

spacechicken1990 · 2020-10-15T07:16:03+00:00

Who isn’t grateful for thoughtful gifts? My ex was over the moon when I got him a vinyl he’d been wanting or surprised him with small treats.

Only stuck up idiots aren’t grateful & if that’s all you can attract then your the issue.

Also who the fuck sees sex as a reward.. I mean except for the odd birthday blowie I’ve never seen sex as a “reward“. This kinda attitude just shows someone isn’t really into you & is using sex to get gifts.. that ain’t your girl that’s a gold digger.

Iluvalmonds83 · 2020-10-15T11:25:03+00:00

I think you have to add a bit more context in your OP. I would imagine if she’s already“your girl”, she’s proven to be someone you’d be inclined to show appreciation to and be entitled to it because she’s bringing value into your life.

If she was someone you’d just started dating or still getting to know, obviously no one should be “expecting” gifts or above ordinary displays of appreciation just for existing.

And meh, everyone up here is circle jerking about FDS and their hate for the sub; in my lurking I see that most posts there are about avoiding low value men and their tactics which is actually good advice for young girls who have a problem otherwise with settling for bad men and wanting better for themselves. I don’t agree with their insistence that the first date be extravagant or expensive but I do agree with their notion that girls needs to unapologetically have and hold high standards in order to weed out low value men, which involves judging if the guy is putting in effort to impress you (and the girl obviously has to be impressive to him as well).

I imagine the men getting so worked up over FDS are feeling defensive because they might see themselves in that “low value” description and not like it 🤷🏽‍♀️

badgersonice · 2020-10-15T13:03:56+00:00

Expectations are not fine. Being grateful is important.

Uh, well first of all, some level of expectations is necessary. You are entitled to choose to date only partners who actually meet your standards— like, for example, you are entitled to reject a partner who punches you in the mouth, no? Expectations are part of setting your boundaries. Plenty of people go overboard with ridiculous expectations, but some level of expectations are healthy and good. And it is inappropriate to show fawning, doe-eyed gratitude to people who do not meet your expectations.

I get what you’re saying more generally— it is bad to just expect your ideal treatment but never show appreciation for it... but that should go for both sexes! I generally see little indication that RP men have any desire to show any kind of gratitude either: they’re really no different from the ungrateful women they hate. Usually, they seem to have many expectations with zero willingness to show gratitude or appreciation. It’s the attitude of “well, I put in all the real effort to ask her out, so the bitch better spread her legs within 3 hours or that means she doesn’t appreciate my glory enough and Imma bounce”. Or the general TP attitude of “men do everything for women and women never do anything, when all men ever asked for is gratitude and respect and admiration”.

.... that attitude is exactly the same kind of ungrateful “I’m the kween” attitude you’re talking about. It looks to me like FDS is simply adopting the same self-centered, “I am the prize”, ungrateful mentality preached as the core or TRP.

So yes, getting gratitude is important in a relationship, but so is giving it. Expecting gratitude without ever giving it is entitled and crappy.

And honestly, I think there’s a certain level of gratitude you need to feel for others in order to feel like you’re getting it from someone else— if you can’t feel or show gratitude yourself, you’ll be unable to appreciate it in others when it’s shown to you in return. I think carrying a chip on your shoulder blocks the ability to experience and accept gratitude from others.

Thatshygurl · 2020-10-15T13:55:03+00:00

Could you also take into consideration some women don’t like to be given gifts? Maybe that could be seen as “ungrateful”. I’ll flat out refuse gifts, and wouldn’t allow a guy to buy me anything. I understand that this isn’t always the case, and some girls are just straight up entitled bitches and that’s why there ungrateful.

To me gifts just seem like a tool people use for manipulation. My mom would always buy me stuff to get me to like her again after exploding on me. Not to mention she’d ALWAYS tell me never accept a gift from a guy, he’ll always want something in return, and same goes for when the bill comes at a restaurant, either split it it or pay for it all. I never like to be indebted to anyone, but ESPECIALLY not to a love interest.

nik6979 · 2020-10-15T14:53:30+00:00

Do men on here really think a token of appreciation warrants sex ? I'd want sex cause I'm desired ,not because I bought some body earrings or a tennis bracelet . Sounds very transactional. Sugar Daddy sites that way ---------->

OXOzymandias · 2020-10-15T06:52:09+00:00

A restaurant doesn't have to cost the equivalent of 2 days pay, but yes in the US small diners and delis are great for first dates. It's not about the money. I've been assaulted in my own home before. Home dates, car dates, and secluded walks are absolutely crap ways to meet with men who you barely know. Museums or other types of public dates aren't usually any cheaper than a deli/diner meal. Expecting safety really is fine, 100%. Calling a free walk a date is not fine. Walks are for dogs. Seriously- imagine going on a walk with a man and it turns out badly. You both just wasted your time. Might as well at least get food eaten while you're at it. Inviting a woman to your home, and likely trying to have sex, for a first date is not fine. Refusing to go out in public with your exclusive girlfriend is not fine. Those things are not usually acceptable in US culture, even outside of FDS. Gaslighting women that every restaurant must be very costly is not fine. Find you a decent restaurant that costs much less than the equivalent of $200 USD.

Other than that? Sure, gratitude is always important. Gratitude is an issue as well as generosity. I wouldn't disagree with that.

virtualreality_3 · 2020-10-16T00:53:40+00:00

Man it's not that. It's that women are often told that they shouldn't be shallow and materialistic and should love a guy for who he really is, which yes, fine. But then you find out the reason he says that is that he has a rotation of 5 girls going and he would go broke paying for all of their dinners. And the ex he kept bitching about how he took her to expensive dinners and she didn't appreciate him? He's still hung up on her and he's taking his bitterness out on you as a proxy. Or you see men tripping over themselves to impress women they find desirable with their wealth. It's not a black and white situation.

LeJacquelope · 2020-10-15T06:56:47+00:00

FD$, dude, that is what they really are.

geyejoe7 · 2020-10-15T10:18:01+00:00

Ok? And? If you don’t want to do this don’t date a woman who expects it.

Classic_Touch · 2020-10-15T12:40:06+00:00

I know the whole spending money on me is to show me he is serious. If a guy doesn't even offer I take it as he is just in it for sex. Unless we talked about it prior (which I do often) and decided I would pay for myself (which I prefer often). If I pay for myself it also says I don't take this serious. I didn't allow a man to pay for me till about 4 weeks ago now in the last three years. I even bought him breakfast to say thank you for him paying so often.

lepetitdaddydupeuple · 2020-10-15T10:56:02+00:00

I agree with this post. FDS philosophy is shit.

I broke up a 4 year old relationship the day when she blamed me for not paying for something entirely (I wanted to split since it was an agreed common expense).

_mwk · 2020-10-15T08:29:21+00:00

is it not possible to be entitled and grateful at the same time ?

ItsKaptainKilljoy · 2020-10-15T08:38:50+00:00

No one should feel obligated to give money, and no one should feel entitled to get money. Same goes for sex, or attention, or commitment. In a healthy relationship, everything should be voluntary. That's what the sociologist Anthony Giddens calls "a pure relationship." It's an ideal, obviously, but that's what people should be striving towards.

jayda92 · 2020-10-15T10:17:02+00:00

I see a lot of similarities to the story of the fox and the grapes over here 😂 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes. Cognitive dissonance.

If a man (my man, for example) wouldn't treat me extremely well and care for me like his queen; he's dead weight. Why would you hold onto dead weight? I would rather be alone all by myself, than be with a guy who doesn't spoil me/takes care of me. Because than I will spoil and take care of me all by myself, which is just as much fun! I'm a fun young girl, I know my time and presence have value and I value myself.

That's why we want guys to take us out for dinner. To see if they would invest their money and time in us. If they don't, why bother putting all the effort in getting space in our calendar, texting, getting dressed/groomed/perfumed and put on make-up? That shit costs us a lot of time and money as well... Taking us out to dinner and respecting us is a minimal way to repay us for that effort.

Plus that it's human decency. You can spot very easily who has learned some manners from their mom/dad as well. I always immediately ditched the ones who are raised by wolves ('going Dutch types', guys making a fuss about paying; all the uneducated and childish men). I assume they also have a very impolite, rude and uneducated family without positive role models modelling generous and courteous behavior; the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree. I love myself avoiding shitty in-laws.

Besthater · 2020-10-15T08:15:31+00:00

Fucken a man. Can I updoot this twice?

nik6979 · 2020-10-15T14:50:23+00:00

2 different cultures . 2 different expectations ?!?? I don't pay attention to FDS . Most down to earth females are grateful. Most women I know make there own money , so find gifts to be a sweet gesture and split the cost of dates.

yellowydaffodil · 2020-10-16T00:37:36+00:00

Yeah, this is why I don't let men I date buy things for me. I pay for my own dates, and my own share of things because I don't want to deal with the entitlement that some people feel when money is involved. I'm not here to become financially dependent on anyone, nor am I down to have to grovel the way OP expects women to. Maybe it's just me, but you sound super entitled in your post.

Hoodratshit1212 · 2020-10-16T02:09:11+00:00

A restaurant isn’t a good idea for a first date? What are you talking about ? Lol Idk I don’t really expect men to “spoil me” in any way, but I also don’t think buying my meal on our first date is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. If you asked me out, you should be buying dinner and vice versa. Women don’t like coffee dates or walking dates Bc it takes no time or effort and it’s not the right way first date should be different in some way or another since you’re pursuing a romantic relationship, it shouldn’t be exactly the same as just hanging out with a friend, but that doesn’t mean the man has to pay hundreds of dollars. If youre 30 years old trying to settle down and can’t afford 20 bucks for someone else’s meal then you shouldn’t date. At the same time, reciprocity matters and women should pick up the tab the next time.

LeJacquelope · 2020-10-15T07:00:09+00:00

Set women straight by specifying that you're going Dutch ALWAYS. If she rejects you then she can piss off. Never waver.

It's a simple fact that if no man ever pays then women will simply stop gold digging. Freshwater fish cannot live on a salt flat.

griz3lda · 2020-10-15T19:37:52+00:00

It's bizarre to me that a person with a normal income would think going out to eat is prohibitively expensive for a first date to the point that it's a sign of being a gold-digger. If someone is THAT suspicious, he either has a long and sordid past or is just mean/cheap. One time I got a guy a bunch of weed for free (in a country where it's hard to obtain) and we went to the store for rolling papers. I came up fifty cents short on the papers and asked him to spot me til we got back to the house, and he got freaked out that I was trying to hustle/gold-dig him! When I got us like fifty bucks of weed! It was crazy. When a dude is like that it makes me wonder what kind of people they've been hanging out with, or if they're on drugs or something. It's abnormal. Personally I don't like restaurants bc I don't like the noise etc. and I strongly prefer dates with no other distraction (eg walking, coffee shop, sit by river, etc would be ideal), however when I have done the asking I have taken girls (I'm bi) to restaurants MANY times bc it's SAFE for them and customary. It's completely normal.

i_aint_ya_mammy · 2020-10-15T11:49:39+00:00

If you can’t afford her, find someone you can afford. What the hell is a walk-date? Men still make more money than women per hour, so statistically speaking men should be paying more. If he doesn’t make more, then you’re not equally yoked (for lack of a better term).

Also, women are still expected to work, raise children, cook, clean, run errands and there are men that expect this behavior and still want to go dutch. So, pick up the slack or pay her for doing 5 other jobs.

And...let’s not forget that women are expected to stay in shape, be sexually available, stroke egos, and constantly be open to threesomes.

So, what makes more sense for us? Be in a relationship with a man that doesn’t want to pay for anything and always wants sex (among other things) or be by ourselves and spoil ourselves? If we get horny, finding a man to remedy that is SUPER easy.

So, either come into our lives prepared to ADD or don’t do it. Stay over there where you are. The beauty of this is that you can make the same choice for yourself. If women aren’t “appreciating” you, be by yourself. Stop trying to get other women to lower their standards for you. That’s entitlement

goatismycopilot · 2020-10-15T12:50:31+00:00

I find it interesting how both the OP and several comments are desperately seeking validation from FDS as if they want mommy to get mad at them and give them some attention.

youlikebeef · 2020-10-15T06:34:05+00:00

Girls like that are rare, good for you man! I've had my share of bad luck when it comes to ones who just want to be treated like a princess and not even be grateful about it. Hell some even complained about it. So good for you, she's a gem!

SlashCo80 · 2020-10-15T07:29:15+00:00

FDSers are gold diggers who don't even like men, just look at their front page, 90% of it is straight-up male bashing. They think a man spending his whole paycheck on them is just normal baseline behavior and they don't have to do anything in return. If you meet someone like that in real life, run the other way. Thankfully they're not too common.

Yokowi · 2020-10-15T10:00:40+00:00

Can only agree. I have become a SB.And you can literally see how much they are used not being shown any gratitude... I mean,sure,money is the whole point we are hanging out together in this case,but still. You dont just take anything for granted. Actualy,the more gratitude,the more they feel like giving more,and giving gifts. We make each other feel good like that. As cold or manipulative as it may sound,gratitude is important,always.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-10-15T11:53:44+00:00

That's a good relantionship, just like mine.

We are always treating each other, making sure the other knows we are thankful for being together. Every day.

Free Dinner Strategy fatties can choke on boxed wine and cat piss.

geyejoe7 · 2020-10-15T14:56:17+00:00

FDS doesn’t suggest women should not show gratitude. This is where I think it gets misunderstood a lot. It just says that if a man is serious about you he will WANT to invest in you. I know first hand that’s how men operate. When a guy is infatuated he wants to make you happy and show you off to the world. That’s how men show effort! Not by splitting checks and making sure “he is not being taken advantage off” 🤦‍♀️

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Cimorene86 · 2020-10-15T09:41:15+00:00

Agreed 100%.

There's people of both sexes here who think I'm an idiot because I enjoy spending money on my FWB when we're out doing stuff. But the thing is, he's thankful. I'm not into that lovey-dovey pda stuff but he still says "thank you" or "do you want me to pay the tip" or "that's a great present", etc.

If he was just expecting it, or acted like it was nothing, or told me I should be spending more, then yeah that would be a problem...Anyone like that doesn't deserve shit.

airpork · 2020-10-16T01:50:21+00:00

My partner and I take turns to buy/pay and we don’t really care because it’s all about enjoying each other and the time we spend together. He don’t expect me to simper and PDA with him in the restaurant just because he picked up the tab of $500? Neither do I need any overly show of appreciation when I drop $$ on an even more expensive gift for him.

When he pays I say “thank you my darling for the lovely meal” and he says “you are welcome, anything is worth it for you. I’m happy you had a great time”. Lol.

Point is. We show the same appreciation to each other be it eating a $10 meal vs a $500 meal. It shouldn’t differ just because it costs way more.

I think your point of view is rather skewed and gross tbh. Expecting appreciation is fine, but it goes both ways and not just when it comes to money. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where I have to feel like I need to swoon over my partner just because he bought me an expensive meal. 🤢

JustSayNee · 2020-10-16T14:00:28+00:00

A restaurant is the worst idea for a first date. It just ends up being awkward and it turns into more of a job interview. Way too formal as well for a first date. The best dates I had was when we were doing an activity together like ice skating or bowling. People who want a restaurant as a first date are probably looking for a free meal or are too lazy/boring to think of a fun date.

lady2noce · 2020-10-16T15:09:20+00:00

I think this should be under r/relationship and not here.

SolarEstrella04 · 2021-03-05T21:33:40+00:00

How tf is a restaurant too much to ask for a first date that used to be the norm. There’s also a difference between showing appreciation and bowing down to someone because they showed interest in you. Calm down and gain some self esteem you’re already engaged you shouldnt be so concerned with people’s dating habits.

Satanks · 2020-10-15T09:56:55+00:00

My fiance made me toast this morning, I was so happy. The other day he bought me a cooking thermometer which i've been searching for a while for.... I cried lmao. Stay away from financial abusers.

Scripting-is-a-crime · 2020-10-15T07:34:33+00:00

I feel you man, that's what I want too but I've never had success finding a woman like that. I guess since women are used to getting what they want from their men, they take it for granted but that just makes me want to end the relationship right there.

geyejoe7 · 2020-10-15T12:24:59+00:00

But also just because their lovey dubey doesnt mean they deserve that you buy things or not too

I had an ex that showed a lot of affection, put out 3+ times a day, and would cook every meal for me without me asking and she would expect that I bought her what I want when she wanted just because I had the money and she would get upset when i would say that its better that we didnt buy it. This is still unacceptable even If she chooses to be completely sub to me

nana19_ · 2020-10-15T15:41:48+00:00

Not, it’s because I’m safe, comfy and focused on myself in my home, loneliness is nice, you focus on your goals, dreams and walk everyday thinking in that. If there is someone that really wants to get closer to me, I’d need he shows he’s really interested on me, I don’t want to waste my time, it’s not about hoooow expensive or fancy is where we are going, it’s just part of some signs of effort. It just helps a lot to filter men that you are not interested on , like the cheaper and stingy ones, the financially unstable ones, those looking for something easy or fast. It helps a lot. Finally women are the problem, we choose and we do really bad sometimes. So it just helps to choose better. If I talk by myself, I can be extremely adaptable to my partner, so it gave me a lot of problem of toxicity in my relationships, I grew up, worked my problems and became a focused woman who has a lot to do and to give as a partner, so I knew how valuable I am, and I would never go back with any of my old partners, I won’t waste my time now how I did. I’m also agree there is some feeling like they are god and just for be born they deserve everything, to me it’s toxic. But they know what they want anyway, and there is someone for them too.

0seagirl · 2020-10-15T13:22:49+00:00

Some women like on FDS fucking haaaate when men don't wanna spend tons of money on them. They think that a restaurant is a good idea for a first date. Like... Wtf??? What is that entitlement???

People like that sound like they were spoiled as children or something? Never been told "no".

Probably incapable of appreciation the value of hard work that went into making the money in the first place too.

I wouldn't want to be with someone like that.

asdf333aza · 2020-10-15T16:28:13+00:00

Some women like on FDS fucking haaaate when men don't wanna spend tons of money on them. They think that a restaurant is a good idea for a first date. Like... Wtf??? What is that entitlement???

It's not just FDS. It's majority of American women. You are doing those things for your fiancee, someone you love and know. American women and western women on general will be complete strangers. Someone you never met before and probably only spoke to through text for a week and they expect you the spend 100s and 1000s of dollars on a date. It's a common practice for women to not even bring their purse on a date as they have no intention of paying for the stuff they partake in. And if you don't pay, youre broke and cheap and not a financially eligible man in their eyes. And afterwards, if you're lucky you might get a second date or some sex, which usually ain't worth spending time with such a nasty person. A lot of the times it's just nothing. She ghost you. Or she literally just went out with you to get food. You spend all that money and nothing happens.

FDS is more so bs, cause after spending all that money and getting nothing in return, they say "that's a high value male (hvm)" or that's "hvm energy". Spending your hard earned money on someone you don't know, someone who doesn't respect you, and someone who doesn't give a fuck about you, while expecting you to give them everything they want. That's how nonsensical and trifiling these females are. FDS is saying what a lot of these women are thinking. They're showing their true nature. And when guys see it and stop paying for their crap and treating them the way they deserve and act, they get mad about it. How dare we treat them like prostitutes when they expect monetary payments for their time, just like prostitutes.

rebel4acause · 2020-10-16T06:43:51+00:00

My notes from FDS:

"One of the most important traits a man wants in a woman is ability to expresses gratitude. Since they are providers and want to build for you, feeling that appreciation is important. Think of gratitude as their love language. Thank him for opening the door for you, for grabbing you lunch, for doing little things. Men need and desire this. If he is adding value to your life, let him know and make him feel that. Make him feel needed and cherished. The most important thing is to not take his generosity as a given. One of the biggest turn offs for men is entitlement.

Let's flip this. It's like sleeping with a guy you're dating. You like sex, you want to have sex with him, but if he feels like that is what he is owed and that he is entitled to your body, you no longer have the desire to do it. You don't want to do it anymore, because you feel like you’re being taken advantage of. Same with men. So always express gratitude and make him feel appreciated for all that he does for you."

As you can see, we are perfectly aware of male nature. The truth is that people feel entitled to lots of things. We feel entitled to commitment, loyalty, and *gasp* gratitude. We also feel entitled to sex, no? Especially men. Do you not expect to have sex with her often? Let's not kid ourselves here.

Also, exchanging favors for sex is called prostitution. I know a million and one ways to thank my man but sleeping with him after he has done something for me isn't one of them. We don't do that in FDS.

okha-lamadu · 2020-10-15T07:24:08+00:00

At the end she is gonna ask you if she forced you to buy her anything. Bunch of pretentious sociopaths.

NMFlamez · 2020-10-15T08:01:47+00:00

I don't a restaurant is terrible idea for a first date to be honest though under the same breath I have a strange anxiety for fancy restaurants lol

LooseIndication · 2020-10-15T17:06:25+00:00

Your issue is that you are on the mindset that you need to pay for love, and negotiate love.

You can't pay for it. Love cannot be negotiated. Love is not voluntary.

Love is made feel by you in her, and it is mostly arousal.

Beta simping kills love, and you beta simp, because you believe that you have to buy love.

Your root problem is that you do not value yourself.

ephiman · 2020-10-16T04:21:41+00:00

That’s literally a woman’s success mantra tho. It’s their only way to reach financial success since they don’t want to choose better paying careers nd want to spend there money on crap shit like tramp stamps and vag piecings. If you’re don’t wanna end up paying for a woman then you shouldn’t be with a woman at all honestly.

Title	The issue isn't buying things for your girl. The issue is that you feel ENTITLED that I buy YOU things BECAUSE you're my girl.
Author	geyejoe7
Upvotes	262
Comments	448
Date	October 15, 2020 6:27 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/jbic5p/the_issue_isnt_buying_things_for_your_girl_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-issue-isnt-buying-things-for-your-girl-the.321826 https://theredarchive.com/post/321826