The Myth of Men’s Time Vs Women’s Time

hypotenoos · 2022-12-08T14:46:04+00:00

I think anyone regardless of sex should live alone for some period of time in order to learn and understand what it takes to maintain a household.

Too many people never had to successfully maintain a lifestyle without leaning on parents, roommates or significant others and never figured out the plethora of tasks- big and small- that go into living.

ratsareniceanimals · 2022-12-08T14:18:49+00:00

Currently, men's time is probably viewed as more valuable. It's likely cultural inertia - for all the progress we've made toward equality in the workplace, most working people today grew up in households where the dad was the primary breadwinner.

Husbands always get a rude awakening when they try taking on full-time childcare for the first time. I'd much rather stare at Outlook and fend off work in the corporate world than deal with a crying baby.

hairy_bamboo · 2022-12-08T13:42:52+00:00

I'd take raising 2 golden over working 12hrs manual labor shifts anytime lol. I was the eldest too, so not like I'm not used to managing the lil shits xD

anonymous-platypus1 · 2022-12-08T13:48:23+00:00

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abqkat · 2022-12-08T13:56:10+00:00

I'm married, and we earn about 60/40 the household income. During bouts of unemployment, our household division changed to reflect that. I love working and can't picture not doing so or relying on my spouse for every financial thing in life. I also work with people's money and have seen the disparity unfold a ton IRL

That's my axiom and my worldview reflects that: if you don't work, your 'job' is to do the majority of the housework. Money is a funny thing, and it's unreasonable to me when people who don't work don't seem to grasp that

anonymous-platypus1 · 2022-12-08T13:49:40+00:00

Look, I'm a man and I'll say this. Staying at home 24/7 is not an easy task. Your mental health takes a huge blow. If you don't believe me look at the statistics how many people got into depression during the COVID lockdown. So I applaud any stay at home person who has enough courage to do this.

However, I will also say that stay at home is less of a physical strain and more of a mental strain and vice-versa for traditional jobs. If my future/hypothetical girlfriend/wife is a stay at home wife/mom, I do expect that she will convert my house to home. That means that I expect the home to be clean and maintained, kids and pets taken care of behind my back. After that when I come home, I will do my part of help and chores but keep in mind that traditional jobs are more physically draining so still she has to do like 60-70% of the tasks at home. On weekends though, we can probably do 50-50 😂.

richard_golbes · 2022-12-08T13:58:02+00:00

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VTHokie2020 · 2022-12-08T13:45:22+00:00

Link the article, I bet it's the NYT.

The answer to your question is that whoever wrote this gave an accurate description of many traditional relationships - men do income-generating work, women are homemakers.

But they apply an unfalsifiable moral framework to this by saying "her work and dedication still seen as lesser and easier".

This is not true. Seen as lesser and easier? By whom? A patriarchal sexist strawman? While this boogeyman may or may not exist, it's not a fundamental truth.

I know because I come from a traditional household (though, my mom is a polyglot with multiple degrees, she chose this for herself over traditional work).

Enter a progressive relationship if you want to. Or a more conservative one. Or something in the middle. But don't go around asserting that this is a "dangerous narrative that needs to be changed".

gate18 · 2022-12-08T14:19:28+00:00

This is nothing new.

And most men don't agree with this and they don't think it needs to be changed.

Else it would be changed.

And it's not in 1950s but right now.

HighestTierMaslow · 2022-12-08T16:17:01+00:00

This is one of the many reasons why men push for the sexist setup you describe. Another reason is because men view childcare and housework as easy, and underestimate how taxing it is to be on call all the time. Go visit the mom groups on Reddit, it happens all the time and usually goes away or improves when the woman goes away for a few days over the weekend and then the man has to take over. Then he gets a reality check.

Being a woman in this setup is hard, but depending on the man's job, that can be hard too. Both are hard.

Really whether or not working 50 hours a week is harder than being a stay at home mom depends on ALOT of factors so no one situation is the same.

-it depends on how mentally/physically difficult the mans job is. My husband actually does have a stressful job mentally.

-it depends on how many children and how they interact. My SIL with two kids who hate it each other has it harder than my friend with 2 kids that entertain each other.

-it depends on the standards of the husband (some men are VERY picky with house being clean, types of meals being cooked, thank god my husband isnt like this, men like that make awful husbands)

-it depends on help given to the wife from others

-it depends on the nature of the children (*this is a huge one- kids go through phases on how "easy" they are. Right now Im in the worst phase Ive ever had with my child. I cannot do ANYTHING when I am watching her and she is very cranky all the time. However, she has gone through many phases where she is pleasant and will independently play, I dont have to watch her like a hawk, etc).

MakeMoneyNotWar · 2022-12-08T14:26:19+00:00

SAHM is now demonized as being oppressive when it's a luxury. Prior to the industrial revolution, there was no such thing as SAH. Everybody worked in the fields. If you look at artwork from pre-industrial society, men and women together plowed the fields. Even with the industrial revolution, men and women also worked in factories, though women were overwhelmingly in textiles. It was only with the rise of the managerial and middle class that women could stay at home, and it was a luxury since raising your kids is a lot more desirable than working for a factory boss. Well, with the continuing decline of the middle class that's going to be taken away. Have fun serving your corporate overlord instead of your family.

liefelijk · 2022-12-08T13:44:32+00:00

Globally, men have more free time on average than women. Girl children perform more hours of chores than boy children. This is on average, so there will always be outliers.

NJFlowerchild · 2022-12-08T13:54:37+00:00

There are plenty of people that think this way and the solution is easy. Talk about and agree to expectations for bills, chores, and child duties before ever living together. This is why communicating is important. Don't be with people that don't match your values and then complain. They lied? Leave them.

moosemc · 2022-12-08T13:40:34+00:00

How are things in the 1950s?

LouisdeRouvroy · 2022-12-08T13:51:35+00:00

Single men living alone spend much less time on housechores than single women living alone. This means that men are more efficient at it (like 40% difference).

Once in couple, this difference is carried over, that means, there is still a time discrepancy. But since it's shown with singles, this time difference is probably mainly due to efficiency in carrying chores.

The real difference is when children come in. THEN there is a huge difference. But it's never shown how much of this is offset from women working PT or stopping working.

Also, anyone telling you that you are "on call" 24/7 because you have children is obviously raising their children wrong. There is indeed a busy age (from 1 to 4) but once they're more independent , being "on call" 24/7 is helicopter parenting. And those people deserve their misery.

MarBitt · 2022-12-08T15:20:20+00:00

Caring for very young children is demanding, that's true. But otherwise it's nonsense.

The work around the house or apartment never ends for those who don't want it to end. And if someone unnecessarily adds work at home and serves everyone, just to feel useful? Well, that's sad, but the value of those works won't increase. So for many tired housewives, all you have to do is stop spoiling your children and your husband by making them a maid for every stupid thing, and suddenly the whole housework is part-time.

With a dishwasher, washing machine, dryer... taking care of the household is not a big burden. And that men don't spend as much time on housework as women? Truth. But this is largely due to the fact that women have much higher demands for cleaning and everything possible around the house. Just because a woman decides to bake all the cookies, cakes and bread by hand this year and spends dozens of hours doing it, doesn't mean the man has to work dozens of extra hours at home to balance it out.

Women also often serve children and husband needlessly and spoil them. The children and husband will make small meals themselves, and if not, let them be hungry. In the same way, the children and the husband can put their clothes in the closets themselves and put the dirty ones in the laundry basket. If not, they simply won't have anything to wear, their problem...

No one thinks slaves have an easier job, life or that their time is unlimited. But no one appreciates them for their work either. Do you want your work to be appreciated? Stop being a slave.

Meihuajiancai · 2022-12-08T13:45:34+00:00

I'm unmarried but have lots of married friends in the 30-40 age range. There is definitely an element of truth to this but to call it patriarchy in steroids is ridiculous

lolthankstinder · 2022-12-08T15:11:10+00:00

Ugh I'm tired of seeing crap like this. You realize that those women chose to marry guys like that, right? They chose that. Of all the guys out there, that's who they chose. Now they're complaining he doesn't do enough work or whatever...

If you look at the research/stats on women's preferences, women continue to have very unrealistic, hypermasculine expectations for men, ESPECIALLY for height. This new bullshit narrative that men need to "improve" and "bring more to the table" is coming from women who finally managed to lock down their tall dream guy and now want to force him to change/improve.

If women REALLY cared about finding men willing to do housework, cook, clean, and whatever, then why does height continue to be one of the biggest indicators of success for men in dating? You can't have your cake and eat it too...

Fighting_dorks6969 · 2022-12-08T14:14:17+00:00

This just proves women cant help but to end up fucking assholes

No_Reflection_798 · 2022-12-08T15:53:37+00:00

Yeah, this is some of the worst pop-science that I have been encountering. The overall priority is that everyone is healthy, safe, warm, dry, and nourished (both mentally and physically). Within a family unit, "from those who can provide the most, to those who need the most".

Each sex brings different strengths to a relationship and a family. My mother was a very nurturing and supportive mother when the three of us kids were growing up. My need for nurture and support was fulfilled by my mother. My father was an engineer by trade and mental focus, so my need for discipline and learning how the world works came from my father. I'm grateful to both of them for all of these intangibles that enriched me during my formative years.

Everyone needs nourishment, hygiene, and safety and security - while exploring the world around them. To quibble over who does the laundry is to not be not be able to see the forest for the trees.

My mother, through her adult life, was fully able to exercise the options of having three careers, and three children. She was at home to raise us when she wanted to, and even retired early. My father? Nope. One career. He lost his job and was forced to switch employers half way through his working career because of the large company that he worked at dissolving the entire department that he was a manager of. But, he didn't have a choice. One career, for almost fifty years.

The main fallacy of this myth is that the unit of measure of "time" is equal in the workplace between men and women (on average, and overall in general). It relies heavily on the myth that women only get paid 80% the same as men. When, in reality, men tend to work the more in-demand and dangerous jobs, and for longer hours. That's why men generally get paid more. That's why men have more to provide (and do provide) to the family in that regard. And, yes, these are tiring careers.

Working retail is tough in its own way. So is an office job. So is refining scrap metal (which was my father's career). Both my mother and father have lived very happy, full, and rewarding lives - even though they had different details in their lives. And, by extension, so have myself and my two siblings. In this case, the value of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

the_butter_lord · 2022-12-08T16:19:02+00:00

But the wife is basically on call or actively working 168 a week

This is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. SAHMs are not working 24/7, far from it.

Kids are in school seven hours a day, five days a week, eight months a year.
Kids DO NOT require constant supervision when they're not in school.
Modern appliances make many household tasks such as dishes and laundry a breeze. Even vacuuming is pretty fast.

To support this, the article discussed how, even among women who work, there is an expectation that they will do housework, cook, clean and tend to their children’s needs so that after the man has come home, he can rest and relax.

Women in paid employment still work fewer hours and earn less money than men in paid employment.

welcometothejl · 2022-12-08T20:08:16+00:00

Another example they gave was the SAHW. If she has kids at home and is cooking, cleaning and the main one responsible for raising the children, despite not having a traditional job, that woman will be working hard most of the time.

This isn't hard work.

abaxeron · 2022-12-08T18:17:30+00:00

Men’s time is seen as

Women’s time however, is viewed as

Why is any feminist propaganda so anally fixated on passive voice? Seen by who? Viewed by who?

USA men in intact families with children spend slightly more time on housework, paid work, and child care, combined, than women, for the majority of years we have data for.

https://www.reddit.com/user/abaxeron/comments/ls67cd/time_spent_on_paid_work_housework_and_child_care/

In the developed world, more men die supporting their children and those children's mothers materially than women giving birth.

Men are universally more likely to get occupational injuries and disabilities while trying to support their families.

Men, especially family men with children, spend less time sleeping than their female counterparts.

Women’s time however, is viewed as unlimited:

Women are the primary enemies of their own free time.

Women are the main consumers of non-machine-washable clothes that require mandatory ironing, non-dishwasher-safe tableware items, furniture designed not to let Roombas roll under it that collects dust like it's valuable, and time-consuming nonsense stuff like TVs.

Women don't get to claim credit and demand compensation for taking care of a cat that THEY insisted on having AGAINST the husband's protests.

Finally, domestic chores are currently less prevalent and less time-consuming than ever in human history. This is the worst time to complain about them, which also brings me to the question of why women always complain about a certain thing at the worst moment to complain about it.

https://www.humanprogress.org/technological-progress-liberated-kids-from-hard-labor/

https://humanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pinkertech.png

(edit: typos)

anonymous-platypus1 · 2022-12-08T14:00:50+00:00

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Barely-moral · 2022-12-08T14:05:42+00:00

there is an expectation that they will do housework, cook, clean and tend to their children’s needs so that after the man has come home, he can rest and relax.

I don't deal in expectations unless they are explicit.

Another example they gave was the SAHW. If she has kids at home and is cooking, cleaning and the main one responsible for raising the children, despite not having a traditional job, that woman will be working hard most of the time.

Working sure. Working hard, maybe. Working harder than the husband, could be. Producing more value than him, unlikely.

Yet, for some men who want traditional roles, they feel that by leaving the house to work 40 or even 60+ hours a week, they are contributing more than the SAHW.

Correct. Not all hours, not all work produces the same value.

But the wife is basically on call or actively working 168 a week: she doesn’t get weekends, pto, vacation or overtime pay.

That is on her. If she wants that she should have negotiated for it. All relationships are transactional. You get what you negotiate for.

Some women don’t even get breaks from housework and other children when they are pregnant.

I wouldn't offer such a bad deal to my partner. I wouldn't accept such a deal in her place.

And her work and dedication still seen as lesser and easier.

It is possible that it is. I wouldn't see it as lesser. I would see it as easier.

This brings us to the men’s vs women’s time. Men’s time is seen as limited and valuable: thus him coming home and having to wash dishes is a drain on his limited time.

It is limited and valuable.

Women’s time however, is viewed as unlimited: she’s at home, or with kids, she’s not working hard so she should be able to do everything and more.

It is seen as less valuable. In some circumstances, it is.

Men:Do you agree with this? Do you live by that thought process? Do you think that your time is more valuable than a partners would be?

If I pay my partner the marketplace value of everything she does in the house counted to the hour as if she was at the level of a professional and she is not at said level. If I assumed that she works 24 ha a day without any rest. Even then I would need to work only 5 hours to pay for her services. My time is more valuable.

How can women change this dangerous narrative? Does it need to be changed?

It is not dangerous. Women can change it by producing more value per hour than her partners. That is measured in money.

Also, women must turn that money into something men value. I don't care if my partner is able to out earn me and prove to me that her time is as valuable as mine or more of I don't get any benefit from her money. My life is not improved by a woman's money because no woman is willing to spend enough of it in me to make a difference.

UneastAji · 2022-12-08T13:44:16+00:00

The thing that's not told is he pays most of the bills.

Say for a childless married couple, if he pays 2/3 of the bills she should do 2/3 of the chores.

Reddit absolutely hates this because most of reddit thinks men's higher wages is just "luck" and they also irrationally hate 50/50 bill pay for married couples who don't have kids. There's no reason to pay for a woman's life just because you earn more money than her if she doesn't sacrifice some of her time or career potentials for your home or your kids.

His time is worth more, his peace of mind is worth more, yes. Not by much, but yes.

Also men do more commute time on average.

If we're in the situation where really he earns less, don't pay bills, and don't do jack shit around, the woman likely is just getting scammed or is paying for him looking far better than him, or something like that. But I don't think this is the norm.

Transmigratory · 2022-12-08T14:02:59+00:00

I wanna know what triggered this reply, obviously some TRP post that rubbed someone the wrong way, I'd guess.

OkProfessional9405 · 2022-12-08T14:04:49+00:00

Every career choice has a lifestyle associated with it in terms of time spent, travel, heavy lifting, education required, etc.

These job choices are paid as little as the business can possibly pay.

So your pay is basically measuring how hard it would be to replace you.

It has little to do with how hard the job actually is. Clearing boulders by hand is a hard job, no one wants to do it, it takes zero skill, so it pays reasonably well for someone with little skill.

alphasupremacy5555 · 2022-12-08T15:00:57+00:00

I do not agree with this at all and I do not live by this thought process at. If I had a lady who was my traditional SAHW and she cooking cleaning and taking care of our kids every day then my time could never more valuable than hers. Not ever. Her time and my time are equally valuable. A man should still do his part and help his lady with around the place, it's his home too.

Not entirely certain what you mean by dangerous narrative tbh

-since · 2022-12-08T15:39:12+00:00

You're conveniently leaving out the most important assumption about this premise:

That men make more on average, produce more value during their working hours, or have a more energy intensive job than women. (which is still often the case)

Then the balance all falls into place.

OhDestinyAltMine · 2022-12-08T16:31:05+00:00

It can be true, but the other truth is women often take on and demand a much higher standard of domesticity that is not just silly but offputting. If i said women can NEVER satisfy a man sexually, and then you found out my standard involves hourly blowjobs, the problem is with my standards not women. Similarly, if her mental standard for the good life is her instagram feed of hyper curated not quite lived in spaces, i refuse to be told i am a lazy slob for not being at that level.

I am very wary of domesticity bc I don’t trust my generation of neurotic helicopter parents to throw the fucking kids out for two hours, tell them to drink from the hose, then we make a drink and fuck. When i respect my partner’s standards i meet them. When i don’t, I don’t.

WakeupJabTD · 2022-12-08T20:53:51+00:00

The whole sahm being overworked would ring true if we were still living in the 1800's. Everything is so automated now that it's barely even an inconvenience to upkeep the home.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2022-12-08T21:35:47+00:00

I was just watching a video on this topic, here's a link. I found it pretty interesting and gave some good ideas on how to handle domestic chores issues if they arise.

Men’s time is seen as limited and valuable: thus him coming home and having to wash dishes is a drain on his limited time. Women’s time however, is viewed as unlimited: she’s at home, or with kids, she’s not working hard so she should be able to do everything and more.

They mentioned this in the video. Not all men are like this, obviously, but I have seen enough guys who seem to view their free time to not be open for discussion, but their partner's time and the time they spend with their partner as being something that can be compromised with. I don't think they necessarily believe their time is more important, I think it was just pure selfishness - I want to do X, I don't want to do Y, I'll just let my partner do it. And they didn't think that their partner wanted to do A and didn't want to do Y either. This isn't exclusive to men, plenty of women are selfish, too.

Do you think that your time is more valuable than a partners would be?

No, both of our time is equally valuable and we try to do our best to make sure both of us have as much time as we can.

How can women change this dangerous narrative?

I like the idea of making people take ownership of a certain chore/something that needs to get done. For example, my husband and I were living abroad and we wanted to move to a new place, his old bachelor pad was a bit small for 2 people and a zoomy cat. He didn't speak the language used in that country, I did. So he tried to push the apartment hunting on me. At the time I was working full time, studying to pass an important exam and trying to sort out extending my visa. I couldn't put anything more on my plate, so I told him ''you're in charge of this''. He tried to argue that I'd do it faster, because I spoke the language. I didn't budge. He has google translate, he can figure it out. And he did, I just helped with the in person conversations with the landlord. He found us a great place in less than a week. He took ownership of the chore and got it done. I think some women aren't great at advocating for these needs in relationships and that we should improve. Tell him he's in charge of this and that you're not doing it. If he tries to get out of it, ignore it. This won't work with stuff that he doesn't care about or doesn't think are important, nobody is going to take ownership of the dusting if it doesn't bother them.

Does it need to be changed?

Yes. And not just so the partner that does more has more time, it would also be good for the relationship. If one person is working full time and they have to do the majority of the housework, how do you think it affects their view of their partner who doesn't bother doing much? Would you continue to be attracted to someone who can't or won't do chores and it's left to you, because someone has to do the laundry and clean the sink?

Household management is a pretty important thing to talk about, because it can absolutely fuck up an otherwise decent relationship. Both men and women can drop the ball and avoid responsibility around the house, so everyone can benefit from a little introspection and taking on a bit more responsibility for the home.

obviousredflag · 2022-12-08T13:58:34+00:00

Do you think that your time is more valuable than a partners would be?

How can women change this dangerous narrative? Does it need to be change

No i don't think my time is more valuable. Nobody forces women to do care work/house work if they don't want to, in western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic (WEIRD) countries. Pay a housekeeper, or find a man who wants to do it, or don't do it at all.

Those articles never address, how men spend years living alone or with clear equally shared responsibilities, where they do either 100% of the work or their fair share of the work. Why would they be unable or unwilling to keep doing the same or less (shared) of that work, once they start living with a female romantic partner? Where is the data for that narrative? Every time hours of unpaid work is calculated, it's mostly things that women on average have more interest in doing, while the jobs that men do unpaid are excluded. Men often don't even realize this. They are providers at heart and doing things for their loved ones unpaid doesn't even register as "work", for self-report surveys.

It's ridiculous to assume that men want to be sole breadwinners to support their family, but would not want to support their family in a non-monetary way. Men and women have different interests on average. So it's clear they will take different roles in supporting each other/the family.

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vorter · 2022-12-08T14:12:02+00:00

No, that view is unheard of in my circles but I’m in my 20s and most of my female friends bring in as much bank as the guys. Personally I’d prefer a more equal split of work and household/child-care. I think there’s a lot of “grass is greener” on both sides going on.

This 2016 Pew Research analysis (#6) shows women work less hours (~25/week) in a job (vs ~43/week for men) but make up those hours with more housework/childcare and the total hours worked for men and women match up fairly close with slightly more total hours on the fathers’ side. Fathers are also far more involved in housework & childcare vs 50 years ago (although that’s obvious over such a long time period).

Captain-Stunning · 2022-12-08T18:55:33+00:00

Working a job with breaks and lunchtime and 40 hours a week is generally going to be a lot easier than a job where you are on duty all the time.

If the person working expects to do nothing while home, and the other person is expected to keep working regardless, IDK sounds like a recipe for conflict to me, as it's inherently unfair.

Live-Acanthaceae3587 · 2022-12-08T21:16:48+00:00

It’s not that sahp are working harder than the working parent. It’s that if both parents are working one parent gets so much more put upon them.

Kids need to be woke up and dressed, fed and taken to daycare, preschool or regular school. There is going to be the parent who starts work earlier and gets to get up, shower, grab a coffee and head to work.

Whose job allows for more flexibility? Because they’re the ones making doctor appts, staying home with sick kids, attending parent teacher meetings. Prepping and making dinner. Meeting with plumbers, appliance repair people etc.

It’s not about who has it easier. It’s a partnership. Working sucks…we all know it but raising kids isn’t easy either and having a parent around to take care of the home makes everyone’s life a bit easier.

Legaladesgensheu · 2022-12-08T22:27:11+00:00

I am perfectly capable of cleaning after myself and cooking for myself and never expected my ex to do any of those things. I never moved in with her though.

When I was a child my parents were always fighting because my dad would not do much in the household which made my mom very mad and this influenced me a lot as a child. And it made it very important to me to learn household skills, because I didn't want this to happen in my relationships.

But to be honest, my experience is that women do not really put much importance onto that when choosing partners. Which made me kinda loose sympathy for women concerning this matter in the recent years. Because I witness again and again that they choose partners that obviously lack these skills, but are assertive or have social standing which seems to be more desirable to women.

TheRedPillRipper · 2022-12-08T22:52:31+00:00

Do you think that your time is more valuable

The pivotal factor is value. Take the example; a SAHW(or partner), that influences heavily, resilient, confident, and filially dutiful kids; is invaluable. The working partner might pay all the bills, but only be bringing in 100k. Conversely a SAHP that has a nanny, childcare, tutors, lessons, sports coaches and all the other trimmings, might not be as ‘involved’. Even if their household income supersedes the former, who’s ‘time’ is more valuable?

My own situation is similar. I eased out of working a few years ago. To spend more time with the kids. My wife at the time was working near full time hours. After our first baby, she needed to go back to work. Mental health. Socialising. All those facets were important for her work life balance. I didn’t. After our now 14 month old, she’s got a different mindset. Wants to be at home more. So has took off working till next year. Then might study.

Obviously the biggest factor, is we can afford for us both to be at home. Which is the point. How valuable a parent, or partner’s time is; is measured by the outcomes.

Godspeed and good luck!

cromulent_weasel · 2022-12-08T23:33:07+00:00

I think the idea of the man who works and the woman who keeps the house is pretty outdated, even if there are still couples where that is the dynamic.

I think that when both people are working full time, there's still a societal expectation that women will be responsible for domestic chores, even if the man helps to a degree.

I think that when kids are in the mix, it stops being a question of a 'full time job' and becomes a '24-7 job', particularly when they are pre-schoolers.

I also think that some of those studies about labour show that MEN spend more time working once you have they day job, commute and domestic chores added together.

Men:Do you agree with this? Do you live by that thought process?

No I do not. I think that men and women are equally valuable. About the closest I came to that was when we had infants that needed night-time feeding and we were breast feeding. She sacrificed her sleep so that I could have my higher cognitive functions at work. But that was a temporary sacrifice that only lasted while they were babies.

Do you think that your time is more valuable than a partners would be?

Not at all. I would have LOVED to be a stay at home dad while she worked. But sadly her earning potential was far below mine and it didn't make fiscal sense for me to stop my job.

How can women change this dangerous narrative? Does it need to be changed?

Don't marry someone who doesn't respect you.

TrailWraith · 2022-12-09T03:12:27+00:00

All these narratives are highly dubious. By this study’s own admission it’s highly selective about what counts as housework (hint: chores generally taken on by men like repairs, shoveling, lawn mowing aren’t counted).

https://beta.nsf.gov/news/chore-wars-men-women-housework

edr-890 · 2022-12-09T04:57:29+00:00

There are a couple things about being a SAHW/SAHP that cheapen the role compared to a “real” job. This isn’t necessarily a dig at the SAH role itself but it does mean there’s a low bar to meet and the average one isn’t going to exert more effort than they’re incentivized to.

A SAH has effectively has no enforcable quality standards. An unskilled minimum wage job still has some measurable outcomes the employee must meet with the consequence of being fired if they aren’t. A high schooler still has some criteria to fulfil to have their exam get a high grade. A child given pocket change to mow the lawn still has to demonstrate something resembling a mowed lawn or an honest effort to at least try, or they aren’t getting paid. If a SAH is married though, the legal frameworks ensure that the financial partner is liable for their ongoing support in addition to anything from a divorce settlement, regardless of any effort or no effort that was put into domestic duties. There is no employee contract that has a comparably low level of accountability. You could even say children are held a higher level of accountability in terms of schoolwork and attendance.

That’s not to say there aren’t great stay at home spouses out there but if we’re talking about a typical married couple in the west, there just isn’t much incentive on the SAH to put in consistent ongoing effort. The floor is very low compared to holding down a regular job and many take advantage of that and people take notice, so I don’t think the low status of a SAH is surprising.

alangarkel · 2022-12-09T05:19:17+00:00

This isn’t really a thing IMO

What the issue really is — “whoever cares less wins”

punapearebane · 2022-12-09T09:56:17+00:00

I mean. Men use saying “help with chores” Or “help around the house” while both parties work. I think that says enough. Its your house as well and youre not a child.

Title	The Myth of Men’s Time Vs Women’s Time
Author	anonymous-platypus1
Upvotes	67
Comments	323
Date	December 8, 2022 1:34 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit	/r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-myth-of-mens-time-vs-womens-time.1142461 https://theredarchive.com/post/1142461
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/zfz3dr/the_myth_of_mens_time_vs_womens_time/